TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden

On June 24 2015 04:08 Blazinghand wrote:


I'd love to have you in this game, boxerfred, but it looks like you were recently modkilled for inactivity in another game, and the host of that game is ordering standard ban list action against you. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/427933-tl-mafia-ban-list-20?page=128#2553

I'll give you a quick rundown of the hows and whys of the TL Mafia Ban List.

Typically the way these things work is that, Mafia games rely really strongly on people ONLY signing up if they have enough time to play. If 20% of people signed up without time to play for the next however many days, games would be utterly ruined. Heck, this would happen even if 10% of people signed up without time to play. It takes a big commitment to play a Mafia game: a 13 player game can take nearly 3 weeks, and you need to be able to post at least once a day, ideally more, during that time.

This only gets worse when players overextend themselves and sign up for multiple games at once, for example, and are unable to actually play. A single person being busy for 48 hours and not being able to play (say, they miss all of Day 2 and make zero posts) can ruin a game for 10 people. So, in order to discourage inactivity, as stated in all the OPs, if you force the host to modkill you for inactivity (usually for failure to vote or post during a 48-hour day), you will be forced to "sit out" a game. What this means is, you are not allowed to sign up for games, but instead sign up to "/sitout" a game. This means you may observe the game, but not play. Once that game is complete, you may "/in" for games again.

It's no fun to be forced to /sitout a game, but that's in part the point. If you sign up for games, then don't play and get modkilled, you ruin a like 2-week game that 10+ people are playing, so having to wait a bit before your next game is a fair price to pay, and may remind you to be respectful of other people's time, or better about planning when you can and cannot play.

I won't be adding you to the sign-up list.

On June 25 2015 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
i expect sexual favours

On July 03 2015 06:34 Blazinghand wrote:
ok, my trip is turning out to be a shitshow, so

We start on July 5th

On July 06 2015 07:19 Holyflare wrote:
"sweet i got investigator!"
*checks op*
*oh.... "

On July 06 2015 08:28 Clarity_nl wrote:



OK I want to move past this as it's not really worth spending a lot of time on.


If me and HF both roll scum, and HF enters the game going "Lol I thought I rolled cop but it's just the VT flavor" do you think I, as scum, would call my scum partner "totes town not lynching today"?


What do you think of rsoultin? Specifically the way she's replied to me.

On July 06 2015 17:02 Holyflare wrote:
Hopefully when I've woken up someone with some sense will be here.

On July 06 2015 18:45 marvellosity wrote:

of course.

On July 06 2015 07:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hype! And already information.


Holyflare claiming VT is interesting. Doesn't seem something scum would do or think of this quickly after PMs went out/daypost went up.


Not lynching him today.

On July 06 2015 20:19 KelsierSC wrote:


i'm confused why you are asking about the first post clarity made now

when you have already commented on this point which came afterwards

On July 06 2015 19:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
What a needless sheep post clarity. None of those are serious questions lol.

On July 06 2015 19:43 Clarity_nl wrote:



Read the thread please? I came back, commented on trfl and then marv showed up so I said hi.





I think self-aware wandered claim is fine. The cop claims were obviously just people being silly,

On July 06 2015 20:24 marvellosity wrote:
I'm not ganging up on him.

On July 06 2015 20:50 Clarity_nl wrote:



My first post was basically the entire discussion for the first 5 pages or whatever, how can you only just now have formed an opinion on it?

On July 06 2015 20:55 Clarity_nl wrote:



So I'm sheeping myself? Nice.


Luckily it's a big game and me saying I'm not lynching holyflare (which hasn't changed) isn't really gonna affect day 1.

On July 06 2015 07:19 Holyflare wrote:
"sweet i got investigator!"
*checks op*
*oh.... "

On July 06 2015 07:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hype! And already information.


Holyflare claiming VT is interesting. Doesn't seem something scum would do or think of this quickly after PMs went out/daypost went up.


Not lynching him today.

On July 06 2015 20:54 marvellosity wrote:

I and everyone else will assume your vote is NOT on Clarity until you put it on Clarity.

On July 06 2015 21:00 marvellosity wrote:
that's not "sheeping" his claim, that makes no sense. that's "believing".

On July 06 2015 23:05 boxerfred wrote:
In Not themed, kelsier was town and that was clear for anyone since day One. Are his other games similar in that regard? The xP stuff has been and is pure bullshit imo

On July 07 2015 04:57 Clarity_nl wrote:
This is absurd. ritoky if you're town this is retarded and when you come back you need to put some effort in and give us some reads.

I kinda don't want to lynch you but that's just cause I'm a pussy

Since kp won't go down if we lynch scum is it the mechanical play to let him live at least 1 day so that if he's town, scum either kills him or they have to use a RB?

On July 07 2015 05:15 scott31337 wrote:


Her, BTW. Usually it's a decent strategy to claim self-aware miller/wanderer in day 1 - if you try it later when you're already checked or being pressured no body will believe it. No body else has claimed miller as of yet (and BM claimed wanderer). I mean don't give her a confirmed town 100%, just look more into her thoughts and agenda - and at the moment they seem okay. HF had a good point though.

Why did you "hardclaim" cop while Rsoul was being pressured? Why did you time it then? Why did you say it at all?

What do you think of Palmar so far?

I guess for now I go with the believe ritoky on his claim for today.

On July 07 2015 05:22 LightningStrike wrote:

HTS is a female for future reference when you talk to her but she had claimed Miller Day 1 before in Titanic as a Miller. She also is thinking critically this game so it's a huge plus for my town read on her.

On July 07 2015 06:04 Harkon wrote:


Also damdred is/was (?) scumreading him and he apparently has some sort of soulread on ritoky.

On July 07 2015 04:39 ritoky wrote:


Probably not. Maybe someone who is crazy like Alakaslam would pick up that all I cared about were reads and associations and see the cop claim coming, and maybe someone thinks I am slightly town for ignoring people, but otherwise I should be generally null to everyone except marv.

On July 07 2015 08:40 Damdred wrote:


this is also a good point

On July 06 2015 07:19 Holyflare wrote:
"sweet i got investigator!"
*checks op*
*oh.... "

On July 07 2015 08:55 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, it's not something I'm going to explain.

And there is much more to my LightningStrike scumread than his latest few posts.

On July 07 2015 19:02 Half the Sky wrote:


I thought it was good when I first saw his post too. But HF is really good at taking things out of context if/when he's scum. Even if he's town the post is flawed because LS' filter showed some reasonable basis for the change.

The easiest way to cross check that is to look at LightningStrike's filter against the time stamps provided. It is a little annoying to do because the time stamps are in Korean time but once I did I found three quotes that I objectively found scummy in his filter before Trfel even explained it. (You hit the quote button and you'll find time stamp quoted in KST.)

On July 07 2015 19:40 marvellosity wrote:
he's right in that there's no consistent thread and push to your play.

he's also right that people always think you're much scummier when you're town.

i don't remember you irritating me very much this game. normally you're extremely irritating.

On July 07 2015 19:41 marvellosity wrote:

if we're talking about the post on the last page, i'm not sure where in it you showed why it makes him mafia

On July 07 2015 20:22 Palmar wrote:
Tbh, if clarity is mafia it's because in literally the second post in the game he said holyflare claiming VT in the first post of the game is somehow "interesting".

It's not interesting, people do this shit every fucking game and no one should give a fuck. The fact he tried to appear interested in something so completely and obviously worthless (nevermind that HF is the worst "dick around with claims" offender on TL) is actually kinda scummy and the reason I threw my vote on him yesterday.

Like I think it's sort of mafia like but I don't know if I can convince people that calling something interesting that isn't interesting is a solid case for someone being mafia.

On July 07 2015 20:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why is hf bussing trfel boxer?

...Instead, my tinfoilhat senses tell me that he throws that out, wanting people to exactly think what HF just said. like, "you wouldn't do that as mafia". Erm, of course you would. That's the same thought that is behind bussing a teammate. Do something that seemingly does not make sense for your alignment, wait for some naive town to point it out (or a teammate to point it out if no town member does it) and boom, there you go. ...

On July 07 2015 20:41 marvellosity wrote:

so look at the 4 quotes i just posted in order.

Clarity votes in post #2.

Wave's only comment on Clarity afterwards is #3

Clarity unvotes in #4, look at the reason.

it's nonsensical.

On July 07 2015 20:44 Oatsmaster wrote:

well they are both in your scumlist and you didnt say that if one was mafia the other was town.
Is that the case?

Can they both be mafia together?

On July 07 2015 20:37 boxerfred wrote:
[...]

clarity_nl (voted on)
WaveOfShadow
Trfel
Holyflare

My read on HF is admittedly the weakest because it's a lot of #tinfoilhat stuff.
Trfel is on the brink on martyring and made a claim that isn't too great, however I'd prefer to not lynch into un-cc'ed blue.
WaveOfShadow has not put in any effort, spits out oneliners and is not contributing at all.

On July 07 2015 20:46 marvellosity wrote:

my conclusion was that it makes Clarity mafia, except my evidence was incorrect.

On July 07 2015 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote:

so your list only has 3 real mafia and one town then?
also, are clarity and wave mafia together?

On July 07 2015 21:02 Oatsmaster wrote:

well no, if you think that trfel and HF cannot both be mafia, then your list has 3 mafia and 1 town.

Do you think clarity and wave are mafia together?
Yes or no?

well no, if you think that trfel and HF cannot both be mafia, then your list has 3 mafia and 1 town.

Also by technical possibility you mean its possible the host gave a mafia role to both hf and trfel right?

So are clarity and wave mafia together?
yes/no?

On July 07 2015 21:05 Oatsmaster wrote:

If you are mad i post fluff, then I guess you are mad at pretty much the whole game.

On July 07 2015 21:03 Oatsmaster wrote:

Lol nice oppurtunstic scumread .

The xP theory is real. just wait and see that she flips mafia.

regardless, how am I not reading too well? Can you quote things from your original posts that answer my questions?

On July 07 2015 21:10 Oatsmaster wrote:

OMGUS mainly.

And this nonsensical scumread.
Which comes cause I asked him some relevant questions but he bursts and just now mentions things he shouldve mentioned a lot earlier if he really thinks im mafia.

On July 07 2015 21:13 Oatsmaster wrote:

WELL I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN OPINION >.>
actually its pretty scummy that you dont want to commit one way or another.

If you make a scumlist, I am gonna assume that you think they are all on the same team.
If so, I would like to know the connecting pieces.
Especially for the 2 pairs you chose.

Well if you think that hf and trfel are mafia together I would like to know why.

same goes for clarity and wave considering they have significant interactions with each other.

WELL I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN OPINION >.>

actually its pretty scummy that you dont want to commit one way or another.

If you make a scumlist, I am gonna assume that you think they are all on the same team.
If so, I would like to know the connecting pieces.

Especially for the 2 pairs you chose.

Well if you think that hf and trfel are mafia together I would like to know why.

same goes for clarity and wave considering they have significant interactions with each other.

On July 07 2015 21:25 Oatsmaster wrote:




Is this a joke?

Why did you post this?
The second bit.

On July 07 2015 22:06 Oatsmaster wrote:

Lol now you vote.

Ok mr I like tunnels.

On July 07 2015 22:32 Holyflare wrote:




that's when you know your entire scum read becomes baseless, when you say you did it in the same post ^^

On July 07 2015 23:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
where are your townreads damdred.

On July 08 2015 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:

Sorry for playing the game?

Why exactly is tunneling geript wrong?
you have a townread on him?

On July 08 2015 00:30 KelsierSC wrote:
Here's my list right now

Town
hf
breshke
clarity
oats
geript
harkon
LS

scum
trfel
ritoky
damdred
bluehunter
milo
wave

Everyone else I have leans on but this is my head right now.

On July 08 2015 01:57 Holyflare wrote:


then why didn't you question my list about that lol? I think they're all pretty towny too.

On July 08 2015 02:04 geript wrote:

Very hard to read the OP. Much tough. Very braindead.

On July 08 2015 02:09 Holyflare wrote:


maybe you should read this game where she was mafia and behaved in much the same way

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?user=Half the Sky

On July 08 2015 02:40 scott31337 wrote:
Catching up - at page 98 - Got a bit more to go -



I really don't think Breshke is mafia either for trying to go after this. He made a decent point and Oats somewhat explained it himself as well. My reads was a copy and paste from my spreadsheet that I'm keeping notes in. I'm updating it along the way.



So if you are saying you are willing to vote for HF and Clarity - that means the posts at the beginning were a stunt and that they are both mafia? It honestly seems a little far fetched for me. If HF is mafia it's a great pocket post, and I could see him doing it, but I'm siding that he's town right now - including his observations, and how he went after rsoul.

On July 08 2015 02:41 Half the Sky wrote:
Also for BF and WoS, the meta comparison to my last game is flawed.

1 I play/approach large games differently than I do minis as either alignment so comparing this game to Not Themed is really weak
2 I have pushed two players (HF can believe whatever he wants to believe on this point, I've again demonstrably shown it) this game so far which happen to be two (now one apparently) of the same players that HF is pushing
3 Large games mean I take more time looking at more people, since it's pretty easy for scummers to skate by. I can see how people can see that as scummy but when necessary I will consolidate on people (and will do now, seeing as people are voting ritoky) that I am finding scummy.

On July 08 2015 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote:

Stop pushing your old unupdated read.

On July 08 2015 03:54 scott31337 wrote:
So about Milo -





He replies with


And his reasons are



Some quotes which I really do not see LS as alignment indictive - which is one of the reasons I think milo is scummy.



The most townie thing OWS has done all game.

My updated spreadsheet -

1) Marvellosity  townie been picking it up the last 36 hours with good marv thoughts
2) Scott31337  town
3) WaveofShadow  Voted HF weirdly (actually never did in thread) / null
4) Clarity_nl  mixed it with HF / slight town - defends Damdreds case ok - wants to lynch Vivax/BM/Milo
5) ruXxar  slight town/proviing insight of game - suspicious of rsoul, quite diff. then last game scums vivax/oats
6) Vivax  Meh/null of scum defends trfel calls Rsoul town
7) Bill Murray  wanderer claim/hasn't done shit otherwise, no CC
8) ritoky  reads boxer as town as well, claimed one shot cop, scum OBS
9) geript  slight town but could be doing this as either alignment - keep an eye out
10) boxerfred  scumlean posts fakeclaim cop to distract from rsoul. Scummers reading him town/votes HF with no solid reasoning. Seems to jump on any bandwagon lynch (oats, now clarity) Now HTS back to Oats
11) Meapak_Ziphh  No posts still as of yet.
12) Trfel  Crap start - really different from his last game - added apologies - don’t think he's mafia though. Unsure what to do with him.
13) LightningStrike  slight town Damdred brings up good conclusions on his meta / looking up cases had an okay defense
14) Palmar  Called boxerfred town which I don’t like/believe in but providing analysis - slight town
15) ObiWanShinobi  Bad vote on HF / scumlean - wants to lynch me for no reasons
16) KelsierSC  Trying to think the game / townlean
17) milo109  scumlean ,towns HF / Oats / Wave - voted LS for bad filter reading
18) Breshke  A post or two I like asking LS about me - could be anything - weak mafia read on me - nullish town
19) Oatsmaster  Says Clarity /WoS mafia now wants to vote HTS although - scumlean
20) Damdred  Slight town going after LS believes in his case on Clarity but I think Clarity's town
21) rsoultin  not a great defense when pressured, paranoid of her - scumlean
22) Half The Sky  miller claim / decent listpost - flipped read on HF after being questioned which was weird - slight townlean
23) Harkon  Smurf - JAT? Suspicious of ritoky's claim, but. Slight town
24) Holyflare  Mindmelt opening - Doesn't like certain Rsoul's play - town lean (day 3/4 alive watch out)
25) XEliteBlueHunter69X  Null- Vivax/Geript possible scum - Palmar town

I'm down most for a Milo lynch. I'm caught up in the thread.

@Boxerfred can you give an updated scum list? You just seem to be bouncing and voting and hoping to get something to stick - you went from HF (which you townread now?) to Oats, to HTS and then back to Oats. Are they all scummy?

@Breshke are you still scumreading me? Can you give me the reasoning of such?

@Boxerfred can you give an updated scum list? You just seem to be bouncing and voting and hoping to get something to stick - you went from HF (which you townread now?) to Oats, to HTS and then back to Oats. Are they all scummy?

10) boxerfred  scumlean posts fakeclaim cop to distract from rsoul. Scummers reading him town/votes HF with no solid reasoning. Seems to jump on any bandwagon lynch (oats, now clarity) Now HTS back to Oats

On July 08 2015 04:57 Harkon wrote:

uncced
.
.
.
.

On July 07 2015 05:26 scott31337 wrote:
I'm thinking I like a milo lynch -



Then Ruxxar has this post -



Oats and Milo call out Ruxxar's post, but Oats does not call out Milo's post for townreading him for his "name mafia" posts. Very interesting. I'm townreading Ruxxar but not Oats and Milo.

We still have two people who haven't even posted (Zipph and Elite69) for all we know they could be two out of the five mafia right there.

The rest of his filter basically has "Damd mafia" "Keis mafia" "Oats town".

On July 08 2015 05:00 Harkon wrote:

Yes, milo claiming cop for example.

On July 08 2015 05:09 Holyflare wrote:


I like his listsssss


Let's lynch rsoul!

On July 08 2015 05:13 geript wrote:
Nah. Oats might actually be town.

On July 08 2015 05:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Scratch that last Palmar idea - he looks fine for now. Can't come up with a reason to lynch him and I'd rather not derail the wagon onto someone with a couple of decent posts.



I've been doing this for a while. Thoughts?

On July 08 2015 19:37 marvellosity wrote:
i think kelsier is like one of my top townreads

On July 08 2015 19:44 Vivax wrote:


Tell me a story about Oats bussing clarity pls

On July 08 2015 19:45 marvellosity wrote:

none of his posting feels forced to me, he's around/does things without being prompted, his tone is identical to his tone in towngames.

On July 08 2015 19:46 marvellosity wrote:

like do you really think you've been doing more? because you haven't

On July 08 2015 19:59 Vivax wrote:


Why don't you notice he's also townreading Oats here?

On July 08 2015 19:52 Vivax wrote:
This is serious Fred. Why don't you take into account when somebody pushes another scumread of yours unprompted and instead you portrait Oats' play as if it was 100 % genuine poop without further differentiation.

On July 07 2015 00:24 KelsierSC wrote:
Here are my initial reads

Clarity - The initial posts weren't great but perhaps he was
just excited to play, I really liked his scum read on WoS, he had pressure
on him but he scumread the one guy sort of townreading him out of nowhere
that felt really good. since then his posting has been solid, comments about
trefl and bf seem alright.

Breshke - I have my own sort of meta read on breshke, then I think his point
about LS , damdreds read and his responses to hf are all good,

hf - he's come right out the gate with pressure on trefl and gotten into a few scraps already.
I also like the mindmeld that he and breshke had when they called rsoul out , the "voting early doesnt mean shit" posts

geript - early tone read felt fiesty, felt town.

oats - I liked the xp read on rsoul initially, been up in people's face


wave - I think calling clarity town at the time he did was
strange and it was like he was purposefully trying to go against thread sentiment.
Clarity has retracted the scum read but I'm not a fan

ritoky - he seems less jokey and less engaged than he was at the
start of himalayas. I was asking marv about the 3 name post and although he has
not seen it as scum, it is different from his town and felt out of place.

trefl - I like hf's case I like the comments clarity made.
sheep case completely


weird love triangle

ok so here is this fucked up triangle

rsoul,damdred and LS

now rsoul and damdred can typically read eachother quickly
and in this game they quickly read eachother as town.



and rsoul


to me that looks like someone talking to a town read.

anyway

damdred has LS as mafia early on.



develops this around laziness and the flip-flop on scott.

now I remember initially I liked this read, it felt good
but wine induced me felt unsure of it later on especially when LS
responded about how you catch scott later on,

so if rsoul and damdred are both town and they read eachother
correctly maybe rsoul is just wrong on LS and damdred is right.
damdred certainly sounded the most confident.

but if LS is town, and i'm really undecided on this. then why is damdred wrong
but rsoul right, especially at the time those reads were given rsoul had no business calling LS town.

I think one of those 3 is mafia because it just doesn't click right now.


Independently of this I haven't really liked rsoul but I have nothing new to add to points raised by hf/marv/oats

On July 08 2015 20:29 Vivax wrote:


Nope.



So the frustration argument doesn't hold water.

On July 08 2015 20:59 Oatsmaster wrote:

Yeah this reads really fake to me.

On July 08 2015 21:00 Oatsmaster wrote:

So not doing much become top 20% scumread.

Ok then boxer.

On July 08 2015 21:06 marvellosity wrote:

Better if you explain what those differences are, rather than just stating they exist

On July 08 2015 21:22 marvellosity wrote:

yuh huh, thank you for actually doing that

Can you tie similarities into his mafiagames?

On July 08 2015 21:35 marvellosity wrote:

very, very little

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/479158-mafia-mini-mafia-a-miniature-game-of-mafia?user=KelsierSC
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?user=KelsierSC