TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden

On July 06 2015 07:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hype! And already information.


Holyflare claiming VT is interesting. Doesn't seem something scum would do or think of this quickly after PMs went out/daypost went up.


Not lynching him today.

On July 06 2015 09:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
I think I'll wait for something to actually happen before I do things.

Rsoul and Breshke town I think.

On July 06 2015 09:17 geript wrote:

I'm not sure if you're right on Damdred. I'm sure you're wrong on wave. I agree about Ruxx. The big thing though is that you're wrong on Wave. He's town.

On July 06 2015 08:29 rsoultin wrote:


xP isn't that up to you to decide? MUAHAHA!

On July 06 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote:


xP talk about pointless questions

On July 06 2015 08:04 rsoultin wrote:


nope, it means i see why he finds it suspicious xP especially if, as he's just shown, he thinks holyflare is town

On July 06 2015 08:01 rsoultin wrote:


lol well i don't really blame him xP with the way you climbed right up hf's ass first post of the game

daaaaaamdy trash tier new method says ls town. so is my method just really trash or are you wrong on ls? xP

On July 06 2015 07:37 rsoultin wrote:

.......... xP

On July 06 2015 07:41 rsoultin wrote:


who doesn't know rayn? xP

but actually we were all playing voice mafia together yesterday with the copcake! \o/

On July 06 2015 07:45 rsoultin wrote:
;o; nuuuu already with the old jokes...i'm not that old yet. that's marv xP

On July 06 2015 07:53 rsoultin wrote:


perhaps just maybe our last large themed game together where hf and i sneezed in your general direction? xP

On July 06 2015 11:49 LightningStrike wrote:
Also Oats while you at it can you explain your reads on the people you quoted please?

On July 06 2015 11:50 LightningStrike wrote:

Why? I think others want to hear your reasons on why those people are mafia.

On July 06 2015 11:56 LightningStrike wrote:

I don't think some of us can infer why they mafia for that post.

On July 06 2015 12:01 LightningStrike wrote:

I actually being serious?

On July 06 2015 12:07 milo109 wrote:

I hate townreads like this. If he was mafia, you're telling him by continuing to be determined, you will read him town. Silly for town to do.

On July 06 2015 12:03 ruXxar wrote:
Oatsy <3

I like where you're going so far.
You're showing determination in your play.
That's what I wanna see from you.

Is there a difference between your mafia scum reads, or is everyone you call mafia equally mafia?

On July 06 2015 12:17 ruXxar wrote:


Zzz I said I like where you are going.

On July 06 2015 12:45 geript wrote:

Magic.

And no Wave. He didnt' play just this way in the last game. It is slightly different in a meaningful way. Like, idk how to describe it. But he doesn't have a thing to care about and how he's calling people mafia is more trolly/and he gives too few fucks.

On July 06 2015 12:59 WaveofShadow wrote:

There's a difference between saying 'I wouldn't do this as mafia' and 'mafia wouldn't do this' in general.
One is self meta and super shit.
One is actually attempting to think.

reading his post I actually don't think I know which that is

On July 06 2015 13:26 geript wrote:

just salty I called you mafia.

On July 06 2015 13:31 rsoultin wrote:
ksc, geript (w/ a grain of salt after joat lol) strongest townreads

still deciding on whether or not i like the clarity push...i don't really get the logic on the "no way hf and i are both scum" bit

marv could be scum

agree to disagree on harkon ls xP but if he's new (and i think he is?) i can see the lack of reads and the weird thought process early, so will wait and see on that

some other gut reads but nothing solid lol

also @ oats:

xPxPxPxPxP

On July 06 2015 19:47 Clarity_nl wrote:



What?

On July 06 2015 19:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I have no idea which post you're talking about. Maybe it's time to actually use your brainwords?

On July 06 2015 20:59 Harkon wrote:

Take away the assholery and I agree with this post. Rsoultin might be mafia for this.

Trfel has been really awkward so far. It seems like he is desperately trying to seem casual and derail the thread. I wouldn't mind one of those questions but this just doesn't look genuine.




At this point I think this is forced.

On July 06 2015 21:45 marvellosity wrote:
you missed ritoky

On July 06 2015 21:59 KelsierSC wrote:
ok so i looked at the first 4 pages in each game

4 page analysis, xP count

himalayas - 6
Noir - 11
hajime - 9
ass - 13

nsm - 8
carnival - 14

Gaiden 11

I think the amount over the first few pages isn't that indicative

##unvote

On July 06 2015 23:03 KelsierSC wrote:

It feels over the top to say well he is "retarded" for that

On July 06 2015 23:11 rsoultin wrote:
Lol ruxx/hf prob scum

Get rekt

To the rest of y'all...learn to read

On July 06 2015 23:11 ruXxar wrote:


Are you saying this is mafia indicative???

On July 06 2015 23:19 ruXxar wrote:


I don't think kelsier is scum.
I think it's weird how oats points out stuff and when i question him about it he responds with "lol".
Why did you point out that it was over the top if you didn't think it was alignment indicative?

On July 06 2015 23:33 ruXxar wrote:


Not in the context presented.
In general, yes.

My point is:
Why do you point it out if you don't think it's alignment indicative?

On July 06 2015 23:38 ruXxar wrote:


I was wondering if you thought it was alignment indicative since you pointed it out, and I'm not getting a clear answer from you.

On July 06 2015 23:41 ruXxar wrote:


Thanks, only took you 3 posts to answer my question.

On July 07 2015 00:03 geript wrote:
Ten pages and more people dumbly think oats is town. Fun.

On July 07 2015 00:16 geript wrote:

First off, that's one word dumbass. Second the word investigator means nothing to me. It shouldn't to anyone. It's fucking stupid. Roles are listed in the op.

On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote:
I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.

On July 07 2015 00:30 ruXxar wrote:


Bullshit. Scum are the least likely to slip anything zzz.

On July 06 2015 12:45 geript wrote:

Magic.

And no Wave. He didnt' play just this way in the last game. It is slightly different in a meaningful way. Like, idk how to describe it. But he doesn't have a thing to care about and how he's calling people mafia is more trolly/and he gives too few fucks.

On July 07 2015 00:38 geript wrote:

Awe.... That's cute. You still believe in scumslips. This is what you're second or third game. Don't worry. You'll grow up at some point.

On July 07 2015 00:40 geript wrote:

ok bbcakes. It's not my fault that you're not all up on specific player's trolling meta, or how they annoy people. Or the fact that they don't get into shit fights with people where they make fucking retarted statements without calling them scum. You know, like it wasn't obvious already.

Ok here's my argument. I'm Dumbledore and I have a red check on Oats.

On July 07 2015 00:44 Harkon wrote:

No idea what he is doing to be honest even if he was dumbledore (probably isn't) he would not have a check yet.

On July 07 2015 00:52 ruXxar wrote:


Oats, you better start making sense soon, cause this is stupid.

On July 07 2015 00:58 Harkon wrote:

I don't think anyone assumed you were?

On July 07 2015 01:03 Palmar wrote:

I don't necessarily think being inconsistent/bad makes geript scum. It wasn't really a case just pointing it out.

On July 07 2015 01:15 Half the Sky wrote:


Alright. Now this makes a lot more sense. I'm used to metareading Trfel a certain way since he does play this way in his town games but failed to take that part into account. Which is then a point in HF's favour.

On July 07 2015 01:27 Half the Sky wrote:


Not a scumslip. The thing with Trfel I am trying to take everything into account. If you want to accuse me of selective reasoning, yeh I missed the part about HF's reasoning from last game, but that's what happens when you read the entire thread in one shot, you are bound to not collect everything. Of course I'll make a mistake.

The first post/subsequent AFKing part is a trait I've seen in his town games. From my own meta/experience with him, he's town. I am also aware he's recently had scum success though, so I would think he's going to be smart enough to replicate his town game as much as possible. Since his analysis/filter arguments, etc are what apparently won him the game in NSM11 that I feel is the most critical component to work on, hence the null read.

Am I making sense now?

On July 07 2015 02:48 Harkon wrote:
Rsoultin and HF.

Please stop shitting up the thread with this unless you have new relevant arguments about someones alignment. Yes, it is weird how dismissive and condescending Holyflare is towards you, rsoultin. I am well aware of that. But instead of ranting about it try to find actual arguments for why what he says about Trfel is not true. If you are town you are not achieving anything by throwing a fit.
HF stop trying to make her rage. It's the best excuse for her to avoid contributing meaningful things.

Oatsmaster is always a blue role so naturally he is on the watch list

On July 07 2015 12:43 milo109 wrote:
Wait. He takes everything literally, and also links Rick Astley when called out? That is an actual playstyle?

On July 07 2015 05:26 scott31337 wrote:
I'm thinking I like a milo lynch -



Then Ruxxar has this post -



Oats and Milo call out Ruxxar's post, but Oats does not call out Milo's post for townreading him for his "name mafia" posts. Very interesting. I'm townreading Ruxxar but not Oats and Milo.

We still have two people who haven't even posted (Zipph and Elite69) for all we know they could be two out of the five mafia right there.

The rest of his filter basically has "Damd mafia" "Keis mafia" "Oats town".

On July 07 2015 12:46 Holyflare wrote:


he's also playing nothing like he did in his mafia game

On July 07 2015 14:17 geript wrote:
Let's talk about Oats. When does Oats not have a reason to vote for someone? Yes the reason's almost always a shitty one, but he always has it. Second, when does Oats not make a dumbass Omgus argument at some point early.

Just saying folks. It's pretty easy.

On July 07 2015 14:41 geript wrote:

Oh sorry, you need a reason why your play is scummy?
How about doing nothing but continously call someone mafia but not actually trying to convince people I'm mafia.

Doing nothing but this the whole day.

Yeah, you can die.

On July 07 2015 15:12 rsoultin wrote:
nh

yeah going to bed

the people i was talking to apparently...don't care to talk -_- and i can't wait up for truffle

i still find milo's play pretty weird...i'd prefer him over an oats' lynch but will consolidate to oats...unless something in truffle's giant post makes me reconsider you're on your own for him though lol ><

On July 07 2015 00:16 geript wrote:

First off, that's one word dumbass. Second the word investigator means nothing to me. It shouldn't to anyone. It's fucking stupid. Roles are listed in the op.

On July 07 2015 00:22 geript wrote:
I think he's trying to say he scumslipped and was just following what HF did early not realizing there are two investigators.

On July 07 2015 19:15 Half the Sky wrote:


Prior to my going to bed I thought Milo was far worse. I was pretty clear why I didn't like him. It sounds like he's posted since so will read closely again.

The 3 quotes I was referring to was where he responded to Trfel about the ritoky DT claim. That was around the time I know Damdred and I were asking Trfel what he thought on ritoky.

On July 07 2015 19:24 marvellosity wrote:
geript also made some sensible posts since i've been reading. it makes me more inclined to believe he is town and makes me more inclined to think about his mafiaread on Oats.

[B]On July 07 2015 19:46 marvellosity wrote:/[B]

no it means you got townread once.

how many times have you been lynched as town?

how many times have people scumread you as town early?

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SAID THIS YOURSELF????

On July 07 2015 19:47 marvelloty wrote:
like every time you are under suspicion oats, your defence is "if you tihnk i'm suspicious then i'm town"

you can't even deny this

On July 07 2015 20:18 Palmar wrote:

Didn't know wave was playing but he was really obvious mafia last time I played with him, I'll actually read some.

On July 07 2015 20:43 boxerfred wrote:

Where am I saying that? Assuming you mean this here:



I'm not saying I'm bussing, all it is is a comparison. Is that enough or should I elaborate?

On July 06 2015 12:59 WaveofShadow wrote:
There's a difference between saying 'I wouldn't do this as mafia' and 'mafia wouldn't do this' in general.
One is self meta and super shit.
One is actually attempting to think.

reading his post I actually don't think I know which that is

On July 07 2015 20:50 marvellosity wrote:

the point was that Clarity was voting Wave for TMI, but in the posts that Palmar showed, Wave was showing doubt about Clarity's alignment.

So at the very least it does make logical sense

On July 07 2015 20:50 boxerfred wrote:


Hm, good question. I think there's nothing like "If a on my list is scum, b on my listis town" yet. I can see the technical possibility in a HF + Trfel team but I don't have any indicators towards that.

On July 07 2015 20:56 boxerfred wrote:

Read my posts before you ask such questions. However, I'll just answer one more time:

- no, my list has 4 real mafia. HF is only the weakest read, that is all.
- I have no idea if clarity and wave are mafia together. There's at least nothing that would make me thing "if wave is scum, clarity is town" or vice versa.

You can easily get such information from my post.

On July 07 2015 21:02 boxerfred wrote:
Oats' filter is full of useless garbage, too. Plus he's asking me strange questions that show that he didn't read too well. Chimes in every now and then which really looks like drive-by posting. Followed my clarity vote early on but switched to rsoul because of a pure bullshit "xP" theory.

I'll add Oats to my scum lean list.

On July 07 2015 21:03 boxerfred wrote:

dude

"I think there's nothing like "If a on my list is scum, b on my listis town" yet. I can see the technical possibility in a HF + Trfel team but I don't have any indicators towards that."

On July 07 2015 21:05 boxerfred wrote:

what a correct and useless statement.

On July 07 2015 21:07 Palmar wrote:


Why do you think boxerfred is mafia Oats?

On July 07 2015 21:08 boxerfred wrote:

Yes.


Can be both, I don't know it for sure nor do I have an assumption.

You better deliver now an explanation for those totally useless and time stealing questions. It's really scummy.

On July 07 2015 21:11 Palmar wrote:
So we should lynch boxerfred then Oats?

On July 07 2015 21:11 boxerfred wrote:

Wait, you're actually admitting that your questions towards me are useless?

On July 07 2015 21:14 Palmar wrote:
~~

I'm doing a face and wondering if I should call oats mafia.

I'm not sure

But this feels awful.

On July 07 2015 21:18 Palmar wrote:

I don't even care about that part. I have no idea what you asked him.

On July 07 2015 21:19 Half the Sky wrote:


Which one are you referring to? I pointed out what I didn't like about his read on KSC.

On July 07 2015 21:20 Palmar wrote:


Actually this is complete bullshit but I'm not sure you're good enough to know that even if you happen to be town. Asking for connecting pieces between two people he has individually identified as mafia or scummy is flat out ridiculous. The connecting pieces may, depending on the quality of play by mafia, not even exist. Or he may also simply be wrong on one person from a pair or something.

Unless there's backstory to this, this is awful.

Like I think clarity and you may be mafia. I actually think WoS may be too, and maybe this scott guy. Do you need me to write an essay on how these are interconnected?

On July 06 2015 19:40 boxerfred wrote:
I dont like first day claims at all. just creating more confusion and more "maybes". how serious were the cop claims btw? pure lel?

On July 06 2015 22:57 boxerfred wrote:
Okay i hardclaim cop

On July 07 2015 14:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
How ]On July 07 2015 14:26 rsoultin wrote:

I think that there are at least like 3 people scummier than milo, and I think he's town for not mentioning his vote on geript. That's what townies do. Yay contradiction.

On July 07 2015 21:28 Palmar wrote:


Your choice of calling his read opportunistic.

First of all his read can only be opportunistic if he is mafia. Town doesn't do opportunistic because by definition they will only jump things they actually believe in. Only mafia can have a cause without reason, because reason leads town to cause.

However, if your own perception is that the read is opportunistic, you must have believed he had an opportunity. Something that he could actually call out. I assume this opportunity that you think he had is you asking him these questions, and thus the opportunistic read is to call you mafia for asking them.

The problem I have with that is, it embeds another layer of why he should be mafia from your point of view. Not only does he randomly call you mafia for no good reason, he also flat out refuses talking about things that in your judgement are relevant to the thread. If all of this is true it's astonishing that anyone could be higher priority for lynching from your point of view than him, which is why it's strange that you want to lynch geript anyway.

I haven't read the case on geript you have, but man this one looks like it should be a solid case.

On July 07 2015 21:29 Palmar wrote:


No, show me an example.

To me associative reads are dumb and useless.

On July 07 2015 21:44 boxerfred wrote:

I explained that already in the thread. Please do the work and go have a look for it.

On July 07 2015 21:46 boxerfred wrote:
I also want to point out that I did not "choose 2 pairs". YOU chose those pairs, oats.

On July 07 2015 22:02 boxerfred wrote:
Oh wow.

##unvote ##vote Oatsmaster

On July 07 2015 22:28 boxerfred wrote:

I'm not tunneling. I'm still okay with voting in my top scum reads. However, you joined my top scum reads. I'd really like to see you lynched, I stated my reasons. Until you start defending, increase your contribution, stop your bullshit ("Ok mr I like tunnels.") and actually come up with some reasoned and valid posts - I'll vote you.

Ignoring you for now, you're really exhausting. You're not putting effort in, you're simply bad.

On July 07 2015 22:29 boxerfred wrote:
Oh Oats please before you do any of what I wrote, start with actually reading things.

On July 07 2015 22:49 marvellosity wrote:
tbh i still think ritoky is mafia.

could lynch BM but it feels like it would be a disaster if he flipped town.

On July 07 2015 22:57 marvellosity wrote:
which are you becausing?

ritoky because a one-shot cop claim is super safe so it doesn't really mean anything and i can't see why any of his posts are townie

BM because we kinda either lynch him or we don't, and if he flips town it doesn't tell us anything

On July 07 2015 23:32 Holyflare wrote:
man oats if you wanna like tmi up the thread then you may as well vote for yourself

On July 07 2015 23:42 Holyflare wrote:
i don't think scott is mafia

On July 07 2015 23:49 Damdred wrote:
I've talked about my town reads previously I don't have a ton of strong town reads, i'd rather comments be made about my case and discussing that at present.

On July 07 2015 23:57 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Someone talk to me about EBH.
I still want to lynch him.

On July 08 2015 00:00 boxerfred wrote:

Do you have any other thoughts on the things that damdred raised on clarity?

On July 08 2015 00:01 ruXxar wrote:
@oats:
You're really tryharding for day 1, what's gotten into you?
You're actually trying to take charge, ask questions, push the thread and figure out stuff, pretty much unlike you.
I'm feeling your presence too strongly.

---

I've noticed that both Oats and Vivax have been tunneling hard on geript pretty much all day.
There's something about it that rubs me the wrong way.
I don't like how vivax came in and his first big post was just an opportunistic jump on trying to discredit geript.

#scumlean on vivax and oats.

On July 08 2015 00:07 Harkon wrote:

How is that of any relevance at all? Talk about his case instead.

On July 08 2015 00:15 geript wrote:
Oh. And I still don't have a townread on Damdred. So I could definitely lynch him.

On July 08 2015 00:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
At this point I've gone extensively over a couple of people and I just really don't know at the moment so I will in fact end up sheeping whatever case pops up.


People I would be okay with consolodating on in no particular order:

Vivax
BM
Bluehunter <- I don't buy the whole "scum wouldn't bluehunt in thread"
milo
and maaaaybe ruxxar, I felt he was townie for the first half of day 1 but looking at him again I just don't really see

If I need to I would consolidate on trfel but I'm not happy about it. Like I've said I like HF's arguments but his defense I find very towny.


Oh and WIFOM ALERT why would I unvote WoS when I could have easily jsut sat on him?

On July 08 2015 00:22 geript wrote:

This is a good list to start

I think we should focus on:
Scott
Clarity
Ritoky
Oats
Damdred

On July 08 2015 00:50 ruXxar wrote:

I don't like you tunneling geript for 2 reasons:

- You're trying several times to call him mafia for scumslipping.
- You voted on him saying you're "tired of this shit", when geript actually made a decent post about you instead of refuting it.

I also disagree with this post from you:



You got scum-read pretty hard that game. It's very selective to just look at day 1.
And the reason you didn't get scumread as much early was because we had stronger scumreads, not because you were a town hero making solid cases.
There's a difference between not getting lynched because there are better lynch targets, and getting universally town read.

As town, there is a series of thoughts behind who he calls scum and why. It will bend it's way back and forth between what he says. Rather, there's no thought behind anything whatsoever. It's just mafia this person. That's BS. There's no interconnectivity between his reads which you see when he's town.

Second, he doesn't snap back at people like he did at me as town. Like he'll bring it with more of a push or a thought as to why I'm scum and push me OR he'll make a push to try and figure out what he actually thinks about things.

On July 08 2015 00:50 Harkon wrote:

Good idea, ritoky is easily objectively the scummiest, and his one-shot claim is actually meaningless and it's the only reason the votes moved off him when he was leading the vote.

##Vote: ritoky

On July 08 2015 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
i just filtered myself in the voting thread and i've only voted ritoky twice. normally this means my target is mafia.

e.g. xxx when i was on rayn's ass all d1 and i only moved because everyone told me i was wrong. or the game with palmar where i tunnelled toad all d1. it doesn't happen very often that i think someone is mafia all day d1, usually i go on and off someone.

On July 08 2015 00:58 marvellosity wrote:

speak for yourself, you little shit

and move it later to wherever needs a majority

On July 08 2015 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
no he isn't, he's towny for trying to lynch mafia.

On July 08 2015 01:04 marvellosity wrote:

yes. i'm just a master hedger and waffler. i think with moderate certainty he is mafia, which is a lot more certainty i have with anyone else.

On July 08 2015 01:10 Harkon wrote:
Oatsy!

Here you are talking aboout this post, right?

Can you go into more detail about why you think it is scummy and going against marv's wishes?

On July 08 2015 01:26 ruXxar wrote:


It's not the fact that it's one conversation, but the fact that you later(which you can see by the timestamp in the third quote), went back and emphasized the fact that he scum slipped as if that somehow lends credence to your argument.

On July 08 2015 01:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
Cop claim?
lol not voting him.
Especially because dick move analysis hits a strong chord with me here.
Is he seriously going to be lynched? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me at all.

On July 08 2015 01:36 ruXxar wrote:


I can think of other reasons....
I wouldn't take that risk day 1.

On July 08 2015 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
I mean it's not quite the same as host bullshit-type DMA but i always give people the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
I also don't see why the fuck scum claims cop that early in a day. That's town lynch paranoia imo.

On July 08 2015 01:40 Holyflare wrote:


Explain how it is a scum slip

On July 08 2015 01:45 Harkon wrote:

Geript was probably talking about there being 2 possible investigative roles in the setup. This is never a scumslip.

On July 08 2015 01:47 Harkon wrote:
It is weird that he did not get that people were talking about the VT as the investigator but assuming there are 2 "investigators" due to the setup is no nonsense.

On July 08 2015 01:50 Harkon wrote:

I am well aware of what you are talking about and have talked about this before to clarity for example.

On July 08 2015 01:55 Harkon wrote:
Let's look at oats scumslip accusations:

This is extremely stupid since geript says in the very same post that roles (for example the VT role investigator) are listed in the OP.

This is weird because geript doesn't connect the investigator to the VT role like I just said. I also already pointed that out when it happened. The 2 investigators comment itself is perfectly fine.

On July 08 2015 02:00 Harkon wrote:

Doesn't seem that way to me. VT is a role like any other.

On July 08 2015 02:04 geript wrote:

Very hard to read the OP. Much tough. Very braindead.

On July 08 2015 02:11 geript wrote:

Why would I need to?

On July 08 2015 02:15 Harkon wrote:

Dude, everyone who read the very first post of the game knows what's up. There is no way anyone would scumslip like this.

On July 08 2015 02:17 Harkon wrote:

Oats loves being stupid and annoying.