EPTOn July 11 2015 03:51 Holyflare wrote:
This is me being calm MZ. Lol.
This is me being calm MZ. Lol.
Alright fair enough, I just don't really see this current debate going anywhere.
TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden - Page 242
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
Alright fair enough, I just don't really see this current debate going anywhere. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
Do you think this is helpful to just keep pointing out things and posting one liners to agree? Why can't you do your own work and actually converse with me and find out my alignment for a change. All these interjections of "lol bus", "lol defence", "totally scummy" don't really help with someone who has been getting clearly aggravated by it does it? Why is defending myself to point out someone's scummy post is fabricated scummy? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 11 2015 03:55 Holyflare wrote: Yes. In this respect in the Trfel case calling him scum relies on pointing out that the reads he is making is false. How else do you go about that without pointing out the places where those things occur or do not occur? You can't. Why is defending myself in this respect scummy if it points out that his post is scummy? Because there isnt any need to defend yourself. I can quote like 5 points in your last page of filter where you defend yourself. you are phrasing your points more towards "I made this case earlier, you guys have been misrepresenting me", rather than, "trfel is mafia, this is why..." | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 11 2015 03:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright fair enough, I just don't really see this current debate going anywhere. Until you actually put in work to find scumreads, it doesnt really matter where this debate is going. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On July 11 2015 03:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Because there isnt any need to defend yourself. I can quote like 5 points in your last page of filter where you defend yourself. you are phrasing your points more towards "I made this case earlier, you guys have been misrepresenting me", rather than, "trfel is mafia, this is why..." SO how do I deconstruct his only other post in this thread and call him mafia then? There is literally no other way possible unless I prove it's false. | ||
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Harkon
569 Posts
On July 11 2015 03:56 Holyflare wrote: Do you think this is helpful to just keep pointing out things and posting one liners to agree? Why can't you do your own work and actually converse with me and find out my alignment for a change. All these interjections of "lol bus", "lol defence", "totally scummy" don't really help with someone who has been getting clearly aggravated by it does it? Why is defending myself to point out someone's scummy post is fabricated scummy? Defending yourself in itself is not scummy. But you tried to sell it as scumhunting and trying to discredit me all the time with things like the bolded is not very towny either. I made one post that could be construed as being a dick in this regard which was the "lol bus" post. Fair enough. But that's it and you are making a big thing out of it again for no reason. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On July 11 2015 03:58 Holyflare wrote: SO how do I deconstruct his only other post in this thread and call him mafia then? There is literally no other way possible unless I prove it's false. You dont. Clearly whatever you are saying about that post/case hasnt been convincing people so repeating it over and over is hardly gonna do anything. How about you ignore it or take a different approach. You arent the victim, stop acting like one. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On July 11 2015 03:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Until you actually put in work to find scumreads, it doesnt really matter where this debate is going. Homes I have more scumreads than you and I'm not currently shitting up the thread. HF is not dying today or tomorrow so rather than flinging shit at each other maybe you should sit the fuck down. | ||
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Harkon
569 Posts
On July 11 2015 04:00 Harkon wrote: Defending yourself in itself is not scummy. But you tried to sell it as scumhunting and trying to discredit me all the time with things like the bolded is not very towny either. I made one post that could be construed as being a dick in this regard which was the "lol bus" post. Fair enough. But that's it and you are making a big thing out of it again for no reason. Also with the way you treated me this game so far you really have no ground to stand on here. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
For Vivax, I'm going to ignore his posting volume (or lack of in this case) solely because in Assassination I think I did to some extent and (as blue in that game) pushed him to a mislynch. So I'm just focusing on only what he has and taking it from there. I think the inactivity argument has been beaten to death and alone may not necessarily be alignment indicative. 1 Reads on geript AND 2 lack of followup/evolution on Damdred. On July 07 2015 00:31 Vivax wrote: I was quite sure I was onto something when I said geript's confidene was unnatural at that stage in the game. Turns out he threw out scumreads as if he was the pro scumhunter when everyone else was way less "ticking in". On top of that it turns out those scumreads don't seem to matter much wehn he comments on a list containing one of them,v reinforcing my suspicion that it was just a show he put up to look like he was scumhunting. + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2015 09:17 geript wrote: I'm not sure if you're right on Damdred. I'm sure you're wrong on wave. I agree about Ruxx. The big thing though is that you're wrong on Wave. He's town. He also likes to swear a lot when faced with suspicion, cause he thinks when he's being a dick to people they will believe he's town. The word that came to mind for his behaviour when confronted with accusations is wannabe cowboy. I imagine this guy in disguise chewing bubble gum and spewing his brown spit in his forced attempt to look like he fits in but even google knows the truth, geript looks more like this when he is trying to do that: (picture removed from original quote) Ever since he "found the two scum" the other guy he's been bitching about is Oats when it sort of fit in with the thread sentiment. ##Vote: geript I think this could be contrived. I have seen many players simply say "mafia" "town" etc, and where he gets overconfident from I am not sure. Reading geript's filter in parallel he calls LS's response to HF's vote on Trfel mafia - from MY PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE I made nothing of that post from LS (LS comments on obvious things all the time, I'd have considered it null) but for someone like geript maybe not quite as familiar (???) with LS, LS's post says something without saying something. Objectively it makes sense that geript would call him mafia. Now where the overconfidence comes from? I have no idea. I mean he's sure not going all out on LS for it and only a day later he just has LS "not in my town circle." Vivax's post on this then goes into how geript's anger is mafia indicative. No, just no. I've seen him get angry as town when people don't read him right, when he's already been mislynched or if town make bad plays. Sure he gets mad too as scum (JOAT comes to mind) but looking at geript's filter what Vivax says about him is out of context. On July 07 2015 01:45 Vivax wrote: I retract that I would sheep on Trfel, I realized he posted more than I thought. We should kill geript for being a liar. Here's the question - WHAT DID GERIPT AT THAT TIME LIE ABOUT? It is not clear what the point of contention was in either of their filters. Also more on the odd confidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24525302 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=92#1838 I read the back and forth here and even after geript is clarifying his stance, how is this "odd confidence". At least Vivax gets some points for pushing geript a little but the backing off Damdred worries me to some extent. He says he'd lynch Wave and I don't know if that's also because (likely mafia) Damdred wanted to push Wave as well. I asked Vivax later what he thought about Damdred and he gave a noncomittal and later... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=92#1838 "Why is Damdred not playing his town game?" So it's not clear where and how that read evolved. He's contesting geript on why Damdred isn't town when he had that viewpoint himself and it's on someone that was reading as scum so what else was the purpose of that question re: Damdred? TLDR - I think his reads on geript are contrived. I also think there's a bit of soft pushing on Damdred, which I crosschecked d1, the questions weren't bad but then there also lacked followup on it. No real evolution of Damdred scum to Damdred town in final query to Geript. 3 The claims - "why are we lynching into claimed X" I know geript already commented on this but I do want to bring it up again. Vivax has been around long enough he should understand why people are disputing certain claims - be it wanderer, dt, etc. When geript contests, he gives another evasive/non-answer http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=153#3060 So here's the question I would have had - if you weren't sure the claim was real, then what do you do instead? Evaluate behaviour. Did this happen? Looking at Vivax's filter, doesn't look like it. Even if you are bad at claim analysis, if you are reading geript you should be able to read into ritoky's (then) really short filter or milo's without even thinking of it. 4 Exchange with Boxerfred He has a series of questions with Boxerfred - Reference Vivax's filter, top half of page 5. What does he do with these questions? There is no conclusion from them, so I am led to believe he's posting just to post. That was 8 July, he afks for almost 48h, comes back to vote, but there's no apparent interest on BF. Overall conclusion Maybeeeeeee it's trash-tier town Vivax here, but I'm thinking unlikely thinking the interactions with (confirmed scum) Damdred. Ignoring meta, I think this behaviour points to a scum Vivax. AGAIN DISCLAIMER - I am NOT taking inactivity into account either way. Questions If you think I have something wrong in here shout, or geript or BF or anyone else that interacted with him more want to comment on him as well it might be helpful. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Maybe it was the nature of each of their pushes, and taking Wave's alleged meta into account it does raise where he's coming up with that. But it makes me wonder a little. A note to myself for later... | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?page=163#3258 If you filter Vivax's last page you'll see that quote is below the second set of clarifications geript has - yet the read on him doesn't change. Not sure what to make of this part alone, a town Vivax (if I'm wrong) could be tunnelled, a mafia Vivax will want to keep the read for the sake of keeping the read. Damn. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
 So lonely in here... | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I'm not gonna look at that now, too late. See ya after the flip. | ||
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Vivax
21991 Posts
A lot of your points is that I have no followup on things, that's true, cause when I don't find resonance on a player for something I found suspicious I just move on and look elsewhere for something that convinces more people. And at the time I posted those maybe 2 other people were scumreading geript, and everybody except you didn't seem interested in what I wrote about Damdred. I don't try to push myself into the foreground to lynch a single player if my best arguments weren't perceived as strong or interesting in the first place, especially not on D1. | ||
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