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Okay I still here for a bit I thought we were leaving right away and and will answer Breshke's quote to me.
On June 08 2015 09:04 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:56 LightningStrike wrote:On June 08 2015 08:51 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null. When you say you dislike the pressure what do you mean? Do you think it is scummy? Not furthering the game? Could you expand on this? I seems preplanned so it's null on that part but it did generate discussion although it's early in the game and not much going on outside the FreezingFoot stuff. I mean sure I would like to know his aka to do a meta read later on but the reason for people to smurf is they want to hide their identity so we can't use meta on them. I don't get why this makes you dislike the pressure though. This makes me like the pressure
It just seems preplanned so he could do that regardless of alignment I feel. What you get out of the pressure yourself?
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On June 08 2015 09:09 yamato77 wrote:
If this game were a DotA game I'd be picking Terrorblade right about now.
talk to me, yo.
tell me what you think about, specifically:
1. FreezingFoot's entrance into the game
2. FreezingFoot's response to my vote
3. Kickstart
4. Anyone else who has posted so far
5. Who you think has the potential to have good opinions
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the pressure is not preplanned, btw.
I did not read the playerlist before signing up
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My defense is admittedly lackluster.
Go on.
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On June 08 2015 09:13 wherebugsgo wrote:
the pressure is not preplanned, btw.
I did not read the playerlist before signing up
Just seemed like it but I guess from the fact I had seen preplanned like that in games I had played so :o
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Bugs is also quick to say that he is about to ignore me and that FreezingFoot is not worth listening to. Interesting.
On June 08 2015 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 09:05 Kickstart wrote:Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't. On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous. You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment. You consider someone taking a mislynch over revealing their identity to be town-favored? Are you serious?
I did not say or imply that. But again you are painting foot into a corner of no matter what he does he is scum. You are saying/implying that if he ever votes on someone who gets lynched and flips town without revealing who he is first he is anti-town. This is again ludicrous.
But I've said enough on this topic, time for others to weigh in.
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had it been preplanned I certainly would have put more effort into my first post. I tend to put a lot of effort into things I plan, as anyone who has played with me before would know (not that many of you would)
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On June 08 2015 09:14 Kickstart wrote:Bugs is also quick to say that he is about to ignore me and that FreezingFoot is not worth listening to. Interesting. Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 09:05 Kickstart wrote:Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't. On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous. You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment. You consider someone taking a mislynch over revealing their identity to be town-favored? Are you serious? I did not say or imply that. But again you are painting foot into a corner of no matter what he does he is scum. You are saying/implying that if he ever votes on someone who gets lynched and flips town without revealing who he is first he is anti-town. This is again ludicrous. But I've said enough on this topic, time for others to weigh in.
No, I'm not saying he's scum no matter what.
Given his responses I have no qualms calling him scum, which is in stark contrast to the fact that he thinks I am scum yet doesn't do jack about it.
You also did not even read what I said. I said he is anti town if HE IS ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED AND DOESN'T REVEAL HIS IDENTITY not if he votes someone. You need to slow down and read my posts more carefully before you start jumping to conclusions.
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I see your point. My mistake.
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On June 08 2015 09:17 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 09:14 Kickstart wrote:Bugs is also quick to say that he is about to ignore me and that FreezingFoot is not worth listening to. Interesting. On June 08 2015 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 09:05 Kickstart wrote:Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't. On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous. You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment. You consider someone taking a mislynch over revealing their identity to be town-favored? Are you serious? I did not say or imply that. But again you are painting foot into a corner of no matter what he does he is scum. You are saying/implying that if he ever votes on someone who gets lynched and flips town without revealing who he is first he is anti-town. This is again ludicrous. But I've said enough on this topic, time for others to weigh in. No, I'm not saying he's scum no matter what. Given his responses I have no qualms calling him scum, which is in stark contrast to the fact that he thinks I am scum yet doesn't do jack about it. You also did not even read what I said. I said he is anti town if HE IS ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED AND DOESN'T REVEAL HIS IDENTITY not if he votes someone. You need to slow down and read my posts more carefully before you start jumping to conclusions.
I'd like you to go further in this. Why it is a scum behaviour NOT revealing his identity to SURVIVE?
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If I were smurfing I probably wouldn't reveal my identity... unless I forgot I was logged into my main account and accidentally posted. /my2cents
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On June 08 2015 09:20 batsnacks wrote:
If I were smurfing I probably wouldn't reveal my identity... unless I forgot I was logged into my main account and accidentally posted. /my2cents
Ya that was funny in Ippo.
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On June 08 2015 09:20 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 09:17 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 09:14 Kickstart wrote:Bugs is also quick to say that he is about to ignore me and that FreezingFoot is not worth listening to. Interesting. On June 08 2015 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 09:05 Kickstart wrote:Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't. On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous. You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment. You consider someone taking a mislynch over revealing their identity to be town-favored? Are you serious? I did not say or imply that. But again you are painting foot into a corner of no matter what he does he is scum. You are saying/implying that if he ever votes on someone who gets lynched and flips town without revealing who he is first he is anti-town. This is again ludicrous. But I've said enough on this topic, time for others to weigh in. No, I'm not saying he's scum no matter what. Given his responses I have no qualms calling him scum, which is in stark contrast to the fact that he thinks I am scum yet doesn't do jack about it. You also did not even read what I said. I said he is anti town if HE IS ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED AND DOESN'T REVEAL HIS IDENTITY not if he votes someone. You need to slow down and read my posts more carefully before you start jumping to conclusions. I'd like you to go further in this. Why it is a scum behaviour NOT revealing his identity to SURVIVE?
Another person who can't read, but that's probably because you're scum
Let me break it down for anyone else who is reading this and is confused for whatever weird reason.
Player A is a smurf.
Player A takes five votes and is about to be lynched
Player A refuses to reveal his identity
Does that make Player A more or less likely to be scum?
Would you call it a bad play if Player A flipped town?
Why the hell would a town smurf not reveal themselves if they are about to get lynched? Townies should do anything in their power to prevent themselves from getting lynched, including revealing their identity and/or role. This is not necessarily true for scum because sometimes scum dying silently can be very helpful (often in the case of bussing this is true)
Disregarding all of this, the most damning thing about FreezingFoot right now is the refusal to come out and play. I do not get a sense of interest from FreezingFoot. This could simply come down to not knowing what to do, but that's hard to believe given that smurfs are generally experienced. Why is FreezingFoot painting me as scummy, but doing it in such a weak manner? Why was FreezingFoot's first post a request for witchcraft votes? Why does FreezingFoot not try to participate in discussion when there is plenty of discussion happening?
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and if it wasn't abundantly clear, I am inviting people to vote FreezingFoot to see what he does.
So far I am quite disappointed, I was hoping we'd have a good town smurf. Looks more like we have a crappy townie hiding behind a smurf or, in the best case scenario, a scum.
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I understood it correctly and I'm asking you to answer the exact question you are making.
Why is it scummy to not reveal the identity?
Sorry, don't say someone can't read when the problem is that you can't express yourself properly.
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On June 08 2015 09:34 FreezingFoot wrote:
I understood it correctly and I'm asking you to answer the exact question you are making.
Why is it scummy to not reveal the identity?
Sorry, don't say someone can't read when the problem is that you can't express yourself properly.
Brother
You're doing it wrong. Tell him why it's not scummy don't ask him why it is scummy or you'll be here all night.
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On June 08 2015 09:34 FreezingFoot wrote:
I understood it correctly and I'm asking you to answer the exact question you are making.
Why is it scummy to not reveal the identity?
Sorry, don't say someone can't read when the problem is that you can't express yourself properly.
On June 08 2015 09:35 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 09:34 FreezingFoot wrote:
I understood it correctly and I'm asking you to answer the exact question you are making.
Why is it scummy to not reveal the identity?
Sorry, don't say someone can't read when the problem is that you can't express yourself properly. Brother You're doing it wrong. Tell him why it's not scummy don't ask him why it is scummy or you'll be here all night.
It's scummy to ask questions under pressure instead of answering them.
If your only argument is that I cannot express myself properly, I invite you to vote your #1 scum read right now.
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Going to prepare for GoT and be preoccupied with that for awhile. Hope to see some other people weighing in.
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Herrrreee'ssss my vote
vote: The Shining
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On June 08 2015 09:00 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:52 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. No it isn't. Read what I said again. The player does not necessarily have to reveal themselves. They just have to prove they can contribute. Asking that of scum will result in one or more of a.) More questions, b.) Nothing, c.) A bunch of filler nonsense, or d.) A response that takes a lot of effort. Asking a townie will often give us something useful. It may be the actual behaviour in the response itself (and so far actually his response has been a bit useful to me in getting a read on him) and it may be the subsequent posts as we get reads/thoughts on the game/thought process from the player. a.), b.) and c.) are all great, those types of responses would warrant more votes. d.) almost never happens because scum on this forum suck. But if it did, it would take a good amount of time for it to come out and it would probably be incredibly underwhelming from a scum.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
What?? Mafia are always hunting roles.
I also don't understand, is this supposed to be separate from the previous part of the post? Are you saying that the people who are voted to get roles choose investigative ones? It is literally impossible for them to hunt roles at the moment. Also yes that is what I am saying. I know a lot of people would be tempted to choose a vest but if we get three vests then it is a waste. What great response are you espexting from the smurf at this stage though? It feels like only A, B and C are the possible reactions at this stage I dont see how town or scum would give D
I'm not expecting a "great response"
I'm expecting something that makes sense when you qualify it from a town perspective. I find it hard to believe that a good townie who thinks that someone else (me) has entered the game in a poor fashion, as FrozenFoot described my entrance would be more forthcoming about their scum read on me.
I would expect a townie to use the opportunity to establish their own innocence, and if they truly believe that their accuser is scum, to put a vote on them and qualify it with good reasoning.
So far FrozenFoot's responses have not fallen into this category. He repeatedly calls me scum but does not vote me, repeatedly asks useless questions instead of responding to posts, and repeatedly cherry-picks the identity focus of my posts instead of responding to the rest of my arguments.
Me going after his identity was purely done to create discussion. We have a fairly elucidative response from FrozenFoot now, and as long as his responses are as consistently bad as they have been already I think FrozenFoot remains a good lynch candidate.
The only argument right now that would work in FrozenFoot's favor is that he is a bad townie. While this is not out of the question that FrozenFoot could potentially be smurfing to try a strategy or because he has a bad reputation as town, I would rather not assume someone is bad and leave them alive because of it.
I suppose it might be useful to know the answer to the following question:
FrozenFoot, we know you are smurfing because you don't want us to know your identity. But why? Why do you want us to not know your identity?
Smurfs should fully expect that other players in the game have only the current game to work with when attempting to identify them. I think it's fairly obvious already what we can expect.
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EPT
