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On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question.
you apparently don't understand.
It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.
So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game.
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On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong.
It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment.
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On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
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Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum.
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On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
When you say you dislike the pressure what do you mean? Do you think it is scummy? Not furthering the game? Could you expand on this?
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On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
No it isn't. Read what I said again. The player does not necessarily have to reveal themselves. They just have to prove they can contribute. Asking that of scum will result in one or more of a.) More questions, b.) Nothing, c.) A bunch of filler nonsense, or d.) A response that takes a lot of effort.
Asking a townie will often give us something useful. It may be the actual behaviour in the response itself (and so far actually his response has been a bit useful to me in getting a read on him) and it may be the subsequent posts as we get reads/thoughts on the game/thought process from the player.
a.), b.) and c.) are all great, those types of responses would warrant more votes. d.) almost never happens because scum on this forum suck. But if it did, it would take a good amount of time for it to come out and it would probably be incredibly underwhelming from a scum.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
What?? Mafia are always hunting roles.
I also don't understand, is this supposed to be separate from the previous part of the post? Are you saying that the people who are voted to get roles choose investigative ones?
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On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment.
So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question.
Where do you come up with this logic?
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On June 08 2015 08:51 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null. When you say you dislike the pressure what do you mean? Do you think it is scummy? Not furthering the game? Could you expand on this?
I seems preplanned so it's null on that part but it did generate discussion although it's early in the game and not much going on outside the FreezingFoot stuff. I mean sure I would like to know his aka to do a meta read later on but the reason for people to smurf is they want to hide their identity so we can't use meta on them.
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On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town. So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game.
I understand perfectly fine.
I agree with your general premise but not your methodology. I have already said the important question in regards to our mystery man is whether he will use his identity to impart wisdom and knowledge or to sow confusion.
You seem to miss the point that had he been interested in revealing his identity he would have done so. This goes back to my earlier question to you: Do you ask him to reveal his identity so that when he refuses you can accuse him? Why would a member of the coven do such a thing when they already know that the outcome will be that he does not revel himself.
Your argument so far has been that his withholding his identity is suspicious and his posting style thus far is suspicious. But if we do not know his identity how can we judge his posting style as indicative of anything?
All that said, our mystery man does need to choose his path. He either gives us wisdom and clarity or he sows confusion, and his fate is decided by which course of action he chooses to take.
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On June 08 2015 08:52 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. No it isn't. Read what I said again. The player does not necessarily have to reveal themselves. They just have to prove they can contribute. Asking that of scum will result in one or more of a.) More questions, b.) Nothing, c.) A bunch of filler nonsense, or d.) A response that takes a lot of effort. Asking a townie will often give us something useful. It may be the actual behaviour in the response itself (and so far actually his response has been a bit useful to me in getting a read on him) and it may be the subsequent posts as we get reads/thoughts on the game/thought process from the player. a.), b.) and c.) are all great, those types of responses would warrant more votes. d.) almost never happens because scum on this forum suck. But if it did, it would take a good amount of time for it to come out and it would probably be incredibly underwhelming from a scum. Show nested quote +
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
What?? Mafia are always hunting roles.
I also don't understand, is this supposed to be separate from the previous part of the post? Are you saying that the people who are voted to get roles choose investigative ones?
It is literally impossible for them to hunt roles at the moment.
Also yes that is what I am saying. I know a lot of people would be tempted to choose a vest but if we get three vests then it is a waste.
What great response are you espexting from the smurf at this stage though? It feels like only A, B and C are the possible reactions at this stage I dont see how town or scum would give D
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On June 08 2015 08:53 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment. So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question. Where do you come up with this logic?
Tell us who you are? It will help town = town approach
You're mafia because you're not telling us who you are = scum approach.
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Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post!
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On June 08 2015 08:56 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town. So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. I understand perfectly fine.
No you don't, because you repeatedly have shown an inability to read what I am saying.
I have said twice now that a smurf DOES NOT HAVE TO REVEAL THEMSELVES to satisfy my line of questioning.
I simply want more out of this particular player. The responses I have received so far have been relatively lukewarm at best. However, I'm going to step it up a bit further.
I agree with your general premise but not your methodology. I have already said the important question in regards to our mystery man is whether he will use his identity to impart wisdom and knowledge or to sow confusion.
So did I, you just failed to read where I said it. Twice. Now three times, actually, and if you count this now, four.
You seem to miss the point that had he been interested in revealing his identity he would have done so. This goes back to my earlier question to you: Do you ask him to reveal his identity so that when he refuses you can accuse him? Why would a member of the coven do such a thing when they already know that the outcome will be that he does not revel himself.
Nope. You're not reading. Keep this up and I'm going to just ignore you.
Your argument so far has been that his withholding his identity is suspicious and his posting style thus far is suspicious. But if we do not know his identity how can we judge his posting style as indicative of anything?
All that said, our mystery man does need to choose his path. He either gives us wisdom and clarity or he sows confusion, and his fate is decided by which course of action he chooses to take.
Nope. I am saying you do not understand because, well...you don't.
Let me clarify for you what has happened so far, and what is now worth discussing.
On June 08 2015 08:21 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:15 wherebugsgo wrote:
anyway I am kinda sad I didn't roll scum this game but you guys should elevate me to Greater Demon status cause that'll be baller
also if you guys could fill me in on who I should expect to suck this game and when I should be disappointed for someone sucking that would be great Btw I don't like this opening. Sounds like a guy trying too hard do say "oh I'm town /sob", and asking people for names to work with.
He doesn't like my opening. Sign #1 he doesn't like me.
Cool.
Let's skip over his direct response to my vote, because it was useless.
Third post following my vote:
On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment.
What I exhibited is a "scum behaviour" according to Freezingfoot. He didn't like my original post, and he thinks I am not trying to build original reads. He claims I don't care about his alignment.
Fourth post:
On June 08 2015 09:00 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:53 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment. So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question. Where do you come up with this logic? Tell us who you are? It will help town = town approach You're mafia because you're not telling us who you are = scum approach.
Implicitly calling my approach scum approach. But not directly doing it.
If Freezingfoot thinks my approach is so scummy, in four straight posts....
Why doesn't he vote me? If he tries to get me killed directly that would be one thing, but he's just weakly throwing back mud at me.
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On June 08 2015 08:56 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:51 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote:
So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now? not really. Do you? On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote:Hi On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null. When you say you dislike the pressure what do you mean? Do you think it is scummy? Not furthering the game? Could you expand on this? I seems preplanned so it's null on that part but it did generate discussion although it's early in the game and not much going on outside the FreezingFoot stuff. I mean sure I would like to know his aka to do a meta read later on but the reason for people to smurf is they want to hide their identity so we can't use meta on them.
I don't get why this makes you dislike the pressure though. This makes me like the pressure
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Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't.
On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game.
Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous.
You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment.
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one thing we have certainly established so far is that if FreezingFoot is town, his opinions are not worth listening to.
So far his defense has been completely lackluster and I don't need his identity to know that he's probably not going to have very useful opinions if he is town.
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On June 08 2015 09:05 Kickstart wrote:Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't. Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous. You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment.
You consider someone taking a mislynch over revealing their identity to be town-favored?
Are you serious?
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11589 Posts
If this game were a DotA game I'd be picking Terrorblade right about now.
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On June 08 2015 09:03 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:56 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town. So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. I understand perfectly fine. No you don't, because you repeatedly have shown an inability to read what I am saying. I have said twice now that a smurf DOES NOT HAVE TO REVEAL THEMSELVES to satisfy my line of questioning.+ Show Spoiler +I simply want more out of this particular player. The responses I have received so far have been relatively lukewarm at best. However, I'm going to step it up a bit further.
I agree with your general premise but not your methodology. I have already said the important question in regards to our mystery man is whether he will use his identity to impart wisdom and knowledge or to sow confusion.
So did I, you just failed to read where I said it. Twice. Now three times, actually, and if you count this now, four.
You seem to miss the point that had he been interested in revealing his identity he would have done so. This goes back to my earlier question to you: Do you ask him to reveal his identity so that when he refuses you can accuse him? Why would a member of the coven do such a thing when they already know that the outcome will be that he does not revel himself.
Nope. You're not reading. Keep this up and I'm going to just ignore you.
Your argument so far has been that his withholding his identity is suspicious and his posting style thus far is suspicious. But if we do not know his identity how can we judge his posting style as indicative of anything?
All that said, our mystery man does need to choose his path. He either gives us wisdom and clarity or he sows confusion, and his fate is decided by which course of action he chooses to take.
Nope. I am saying you do not understand because, well...you don't. Let me clarify for you what has happened so far, and what is now worth discussing. On June 08 2015 08:21 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:15 wherebugsgo wrote:
anyway I am kinda sad I didn't roll scum this game but you guys should elevate me to Greater Demon status cause that'll be baller
also if you guys could fill me in on who I should expect to suck this game and when I should be disappointed for someone sucking that would be great Btw I don't like this opening. Sounds like a guy trying too hard do say "oh I'm town /sob", and asking people for names to work with. He doesn't like my opening. Sign #1 he doesn't like me. Cool. Let's skip over his direct response to my vote, because it was useless. Third post following my vote: On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment. What I exhibited is a "scum behaviour" according to Freezingfoot. He didn't like my original post, and he thinks I am not trying to build original reads. He claims I don't care about his alignment. Fourth post: On June 08 2015 09:00 FreezingFoot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:53 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote:On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf.
@Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf? Being a smurf is not alignment indicative. refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment. So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question. Where do you come up with this logic? Tell us who you are? It will help town = town approach You're mafia because you're not telling us who you are = scum approach. Implicitly calling my approach scum approach. But not directly doing it. If Freezingfoot thinks my approach is so scummy, in four straight posts.... Why doesn't he vote me? If he tries to get me killed directly that would be one thing, but he's just weakly throwing back mud at me.
On June 08 2015 08:46 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote:
It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town.So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game.
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