EPTGeneric Boring Mini Mafia - Page 66
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Good question.And why is it that GB hardpushing Shockey doesn't implicate him at all and only implicates Damdred? It doesn't really implicate Damdred due to GlowingBear's scumread (that was included only for completeness), it implicates Damdred because of his blue claim combined with Damdred's thread activity and filter length, as well as after Night 1, of all the players in this game, Damdred has the best reputation and the best ability to solve a game. To win this game in the long run, mafia kills Damdred there over GlowingBear every time. GlowingBear's read on ShoCkey doesn't matter for this at all. As for Damdred pushing Zealos over ShoCkeyy? Possibly to do something (and thus appear productive), possibly to set up a mislynch for the next day (as demonstrated, and this is further incentivized by ShoCkeyy being more widely scumread than Zealos), and and possibly to incriminate ShoCkeyy. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:25 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Don't know.And why is Oats mafia? But I don't care. Damdred is scum and ShoCkeyy is town. All I care about right now is getting the lynch off of ShoCkeyy and onto Damdred. Oatsmaster can wait for another day. I don't have the time, energy, skill, or will to prove my 3 man scumteam. I want to make sure we get the chance to play again tomorrow. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote: ShoCkeyy might be scum. This is a possibility.Or shockey is his scum partner? I doubt this because given the thread state and thread activity, mafia simply will not bus here. It's just the last thing they want to do. Almost everyone finds it very hard to play scum, and they don't like posting as scum. When the game is in the bag, it's best to just go win it while you can and not force yourselves to play another day. I think this largely clears ShoCkeyy as town. If you disagree, I hope you agree that I've shown why he could be town here, and why lynching him is risky. And I hope that what I have said, combined with the case I will soon (hopefully) make, will show why Damdred has a very good chance of being scum. Lynch Damdred now, take the easier scum now, worry about ShoCkeyy another time. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:31 Qwerty! wrote: ShoCkeyy might be scum. This is a possibility. I doubt this because given the thread state and thread activity, mafia simply will not bus here. It's just the last thing they want to do. Almost everyone finds it very hard to play scum, and they don't like posting as scum. When the game is in the bag, it's best to just go win it while you can and not force yourselves to play another day. I think this largely clears ShoCkeyy as town. If you disagree, I hope you agree that I've shown why he could be town here, and why lynching him is risky. And I hope that what I have said, combined with the case I will soon (hopefully) make, will show why Damdred has a very good chance of being scum. Lynch Damdred now, take the easier scum now, worry about ShoCkeyy another time. I'm open to the fact that I might have to lynch someone else today, ftr. Don't think that I'm not. | ||
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 24 2015 01:14 GlowingBear wrote: Requoting GlowingBear's case on Damdred. This should do for a start. The main point is that while Damdred has a lot of posts, his tone is different from his general town play (ignore the stupid Assassination comparison, other games work too) where he's willing to cooperate with people and work with them. Here, he's been very abrasive and he hasn't said that much content based on his posting.I think the team is Damdred / Shockey / The Shining. Regarding Damdred, summed up to the points I've brought earlier: he has no intention into getting organised with town. I'm saying this because Damdred points out I am tunneled in him. But if he knows I'm town, instead of showing me how I'm wrong and actually trying to work with me, he prefers to call me bad and tease me. It's just uncharacteristic for town Damdred to do something like this. If he has me as town, I'd expect him to try to work with me, and not berate my reads. He limits himself to discredit all my reads, all my gameplay, instead convincing me my other reads are also wrong and that Zealos is a better lynch. This is scum causing confusion and discrediting townies, trying to disorganise town. I will NEVER change this read on Damdred. But Damdred has a big filter. That's all he has for call him town. And there are some attempts to read people that could be coming from town. COULD. But if you evaluate his overall gameplay, you will see an uninspiring filter. Tell me what are Damdred's scumreads after Zealos flipped scum. I have no idea. I get it, ShoCkeyy is scummy. But Damdred is basically a sure thing. | ||
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Then Zealos looks scummy. But again, the thread sentiment was very much against ShoCkeyy, and more varied on Zealos. If Damdred gets the harder mislynch (Zealos) earlier, it's easier to get the next mislynch (ShoCkeyy). This makes sense even more from the perspective of a tired Damdred who doesn't want to play scum any more.I'm not sure the "incriminate Shockey" theory works either. If shockey got lynched and flips town, what happens when we inevitably have to look at Zealos? For an example of this, look at The Shining (regardless of The Shining's alignment). Going into Day 2, The Shining puts ShoCkeyy as scummier than Zealos. But in the end, he votes for Zealos instead of ShoCkeyy for a weak and weird reason (to avoid voting with me). The Zealos lynch was simply harder to make happen for scum than the ShoCkeyy lynch, and that's a reason for scum to force the Zealos lynch through while they can. Does that mean that ShoCkeyy is town? Of course not. But it explains why mafia would play this way with both Zealos and ShoCkeyy being town. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
Hrm. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
I might have said this already but it bears repeating because of how annoying this game has become without him. | ||
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:42 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeah, but it's water under the bridge Btw, this is why Onegu should have saved his vig shot instead of yolo shooting scib on the off chance that he was actually mafia somehow. I might have said this already but it bears repeating because of how annoying this game has become without him.  It happened. And after the recent thing with Bill Murray randomly shooting town on Day 1 as scum (Assassination Mafia), I think that Onegu would be less inclined to do this as a mafia vigilante. That's mostly why I think he is town. Let me do my FPL trades and I'll see what I can do (but I need to wake up in barely over 6 hours, I won't get to do all that much). If you (plural, to all townies) don't agree with me now, please come back before EOD, I'll try to get out a better case tomorrow if it is necessary. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
I'll try as usual but idk. | ||
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 25 2015 15:58 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It would be great to have you here at EOD, I could really use the help. But I understand.I'll read it in the morning. Either post it now so I can check it and see what's up or post it later, but I'm heading to work 2 hours before EoD and I'm not sure if I'll be able to check the thread properly during that timeframe. I'll try as usual but idk. Sorry you have to work on Memorial Day Weekend. I'll make a post tonight. You can read it whenever. But please, just trust me on this. I need you to vote Damdred. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
This is insanely hard to believe but I do respect most of the people ij the thread though I was overly abbrassive at points. Night kills are highly wifom, killing GB at this juncture is something I probably wouldn't do. Now you have played with me when I'm scum and you have been in games where I have been scum as town. In this world what people are saying is this. Damdred has 100% totally changed his mafia meta and instead of hard bussing his par ers at signs of weakness he instead just pushes town mislynches. This is total wifom, and there are really really good reasons to think I could be scum. However I was wrong on zealos wrong on vivax but being wrong doesn't make me scum ot just makes me dumb this game. However I think you are town which makes scum team shockey, oats and trfel. I am a good player one who highly basis a lot of early reads on meta. This is why I am able to read certain players I play a lot with RS, palmar etc pretty well. I demonstrated that here does it make me scum? No it makes me right. Also claiming mason is the stupidest thing scum to do, and look at the jntennable situation that I left myself in, the only person who could claim mason with me and basically win the game if we were scum together called me a liar in thread and said I was scum. Also that Linux thing trfel quoted I was town and fake claimed blue under pressure of tunnel. I did the same thing in xxx night of debauchery. I would like to say I don't care about winning and would rather lose and spite GB being wrong on me. But id rather win here. We should kill shockey today stutters claims tommorow we end the game killing oats and trfel. Just stay the course. It is interesting eight at the sign of weakness all these players start pushing me a bit lol | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
You know how shitty it is to be tunneled for the entire fucking time you are in a game obi, fucking hearthstone man. Stutters is going to come in and vote with oats and trfel with shockey hammering me. We will lose because I've been abbrassive and called out stutters for lack luster play and tried to get shot during the night. it sucks but its where we are. | ||
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Qwerty!
106 Posts
On May 22 2015 03:41 GlowingBear wrote: First, I'll requote GlowingBear's case. It's good. Though I don't agree with scumreading Damdred for the quick Palmar read.I'm extremely lazy to build that case on Damdred, but I'll sum up the points I may be working upon: 1) Not wanting to give a read on me based on early games' lack of information, instantly giving palmar a town read without even revisiting it. 2) The most important: giving a town read on Vivax throghout the whole day1 but ending on voting him in the end. Gave scumreads on obi and Zealos. Never engages Zealos. Never votes for obi. When obi was with aot of votes, Damdred orefer to vote Vivax, a town lean, arguing that Palmar's case was very good, which couldn't be read as that in Damdred's perspectice because: Palmar's main point was Vivax raising suspicions on Damdred but never doing anything with it. This is not purely logical - part of this argument is associative. If Damdred is town he should realise this is not a strong argument. Second point of Palmar's case is about vivax making a lot of random suspicions and reads, something that Damdred TOWNREAD VIVAX FOR. So this point shouldn't be enough to convince Damdred. Last argument on Palmar's case was Vivax inactivity, which EVEN PALMAR SAID WAS A WEAK ARGUMENT. And Damdred uses this to JUSTIFY HIS VOTE ON VIVAX, but only after OBI STATES INACTIVITY IS ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE. He simply parroted obi. If inactivity is a problem for Damdred, WHY NOT LYNCHING ZEALOS, HIS ORIGINAL SCUMREAD, WHO ALSO WENT INACTIVE??? Damdred raises a lot of suspicions on Zealos but NEVER really does anything with it. 3) When I talk about a VIGI shot on Damdred, he instantly claims "blue" (without even saying what his role is). This makes no sense from a blue's perspectice because: (i) I was the first one to raise suspicions on him and it was still early night1. If he has an important role, it's way more important to try to establish your innocence while discussing with people, and not claiming being a power role instantly because he could be killed by Mafia, and (ii) it doesn't make sense to claim he is s blue without giving his role unless he is afraid of being counter claimed. So, saying he is blue is a safe way to stay away from a Vigi shot in a closed setup game. His blue claim wasn't a townie wanting to establish his innocence to avoid having town wasting a bullet. His blue claim was a survival one, coming from a guy who doesn't want to get shot by vigi but isn't afraid of getting shot by Mafia. Point #1: Lynching Vivax See GlowingBear's case above. Point #2: Tone Damdred doesn't seem like he wants to work with people this game. He's frustrated and annoyed, not calm and constructive. For someone with this many posts, and someone who is normally as constructive and cooperative as Damdred, this is very suspicious. GlowingBear explained this: On May 24 2015 01:14 GlowingBear wrote: Regarding Damdred, summed up to the points I've brought earlier: he has no intention into getting organised with town. I'm saying this because Damdred points out I am tunneled in him. But if he knows I'm town, instead of showing me how I'm wrong and actually trying to work with me, he prefers to call me bad and tease me. It's just uncharacteristic for town Damdred to do something like this. If he has me as town, I'd expect him to try to work with me, and not berate my reads. He limits himself to discredit all my reads, all my gameplay, instead convincing me my other reads are also wrong and that Zealos is a better lynch. This is scum causing confusion and discrediting townies, trying to disorganise town. I will NEVER change this read on Damdred. But Damdred has a big filter. That's all he has for call him town. And there are some attempts to read people that could be coming from town. COULD. But if you evaluate his overall gameplay, you will see an uninspiring filter. Tell me what are Damdred's scumreads after Zealos flipped scum. I have no idea. First, Damdred makes several pregame posts about being excited for the game. He seems happy. And his happiness vanishes starting from his second post in the game, and makes a lot of posts where he is either upset at GlowingBear or scumreading him (but never mentions a scumread.... for the purposes of this argument we assume he is upset, which looks better for him). On May 18 2015 08:05 Damdred wrote: But he's not lacking motivation? Already, Damdred is being extremely inconsistent with his tone and his happiness, which is more suspicious because he is used to being scumread early on (he was surprised that he was townread early in Assassination Mafia). This doesn't make sense from a town perspective.I'm not sure how i'm lacking motivation lol? On May 25 2015 10:01 Damdred wrote: First of all, he's simply wrong about the number of power roles in a normal game. See GlowingBear's standard game setup, designed to get a standard game, with only one blue (13 player game). See the Student Mafia setup, designed to make a basic game simple for newbies to follow. Look at any examples. Damdred knows better than this. Furthermore, Damdred's tone is very frustrated and upset here.I'm honestly spent with this game. From GB tunnel to my ultimate town read being an idiot and calling me scum when I'm making a play so nobody looks at either of us and the game is poed down to obi, shockey and oats. I really don't care if I get lynched tbh scum can get this win I could care more. However just so people know trfel is wrong in most games have two power roles, most of the time its three with a possibility of four depending on the wrakness/strength of the roles involved. Just lynch me get this game over, the most active player got tunneled by confirmed town and now we are probably going to lynch me or who knows. Ok probably voting for qwerty or whatever and hope shockey is scum Idc Meanwhile, look at some of his other posts. His frustration isn't consistent. He even went so far as to try and "make a play" by claiming mason with The Shining, and he nearly has the game solved by Process of Elimination. The frustration doesn't fit with the rest of his play. Point #3: Blue Claim GlowingBear touched on this earlier, but Damdred has done more since then. And it's extremely scummy. Damdred claims blue initially for basically no reason. Okay, he's done this before as town. For the moment, let's ignore the possibility that this is a special fake-claim play, and assume he actually is blue. Then he finally says that he is a mason, but won't claim his partner for a terrible reason. This adds confusion with no gain, it's scummy, and serves no purpose. From here, he backtracks out of his blue claim. As a play, this didn't accomplish anything. If Damdred really is this close to solving the game by Process of Elimination, he should be excited enough to have the thread presence to convince people of his reads (he's the best player left in the game). And he should be able to explain his read well enough that we accept it. And he shouldn't need to fake claim mason to help support this read. Furthermore, he knows that this makes town more suspicious of the other blues (Onegu and Stutters), and he isn't suspicious of them himself, so by potentially averting town suspicion from The Shining, he moves it to other townies, which doesn't help. Furthermore, this is just never a good play, but it's very weird from Damdred, who is a very analytical and logical player. Damdred wouldn't do confusing plays that restrict town information. The only final possible motivation is that Damdred is doing this for fun. But he's not having fun. He's been seemingly frustrated for much of the game, as is evident from his filter. He has the game nearly POE'd, but is giving up and saying that he doesn't mind if stupid townies lynch him. If Damdred is somehow still town, despite the inconsistent tone, then he'd be still in this game out of necessity, not will. And he wouldn't want to try and make a play to win the game, he'd be doing the minimum. Point #4: Posts Without Content/Conclusion On May 18 2015 05:31 Damdred wrote: GlowingBear (somewhat faked) scumreads Damdred for his opening post, eventually leading to this quote from Damdred. But he's not bothering to say anything about GlowingBear's alignment at all, he's just criticizing and complaining.I'm not sure what I should be getting by his opening. Nor do I understand why you are queing on mine but its what it is I suppose On May 18 2015 05:48 Damdred wrote: And then he dodges the question when GlowingBear asks it. Damdred clearly isn't townreading GlowingBear (Palmar is his first town read of the game), and says that GlowingBear is making false suspicions, casting doubt on him, and overblowing his read, but doesn't say anything about GlowingBear's alignment at all.Sorry no reads or leans on the first 15 posts of the game. Company policy Here's a quote from Stutters695 further explaining this (emphasis mine): On May 24 2015 03:08 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to go through and look for all of the examples, but please feel free to do so yourself. Damdred normally provides a very content-dense and analytic filter, post restriction or not, but this game doesn't show it.Damdred - I still think he's scum. If you're town, please read my case and evaluate it on your own. If he doesn't die and continues paying like he is lynch him. This is not up to his level of town play. I didn't mention this in the case, but he keeps saying Assassination doesn't count because of the post restrictions, but if you look at the posting amounts, he's averaging a similar number yet nowhere near the analysis or effort towards solving the game. I'm trying to not use meta when there is enough to actually read someone, but food for thought. Conclusion Damdred is scum. If you don't trust me, trust GlowingBear. If you don't trust GlowingBear, trust Palmar. If you don't trust Palmar, read Noir Mafia Chapter 3, where he caught WaveofShadow with an instant scumread for a seemingly weak reason, and then caught his partner yamato77 off of a Day 1 association case and other things, while not putting any effort into it at all. I can't say for certain that ShoCkeyy is town, though I suspect that to be true. But Damdred is almost certainly scum, and he needs to die. | ||
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