EPTNewbie Student Mafia IX
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On April 22 2015 13:54 Half the Sky wrote: <3 Superbia Good to see you back. Thanks! :D Couldn't stay away for too long.  | ||
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On May 01 2015 13:39 Fecalfeast wrote: i'm a nuwbie gimie a couch /in This guy needs it. :D | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:01 scott31337 wrote: Finally rolled town! Yay! Willing to lynch this guy. | ||
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Bring it. :D | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:04 scott31337 wrote: Yea I am - I like doing my research on things before starting. Excellent. What are your thoughts going into the game then? | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:06 Fecalfeast wrote: not that it's game relevant, I'm just at work again and thinking about how much I wish I wasn't FF you want to be Masons this game? | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:07 scott31337 wrote: Keep an eye on a couplne of the veterans I've seen play a lot, I made some notes about them and things to look for. Beyond that - find the scummy ones! and of course, have fun. Which of the veterans are you keeping an eye on? | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:11 scott31337 wrote: You and sick. Sick pulls out some weird off the wall plays. We'll see how things progress. What. Why me? :o | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:13 prplhz wrote: is anything actually doing on You tell me. :D I don't think mafia has posted yet tbh. | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:50 disformation wrote: Okay, I am bach, I hope it is not to late for my "awesome" entry post.  So, this is my first forum-mafia game ever (played a bit of IRL-mafia though). Since I am not really quick-witted and need some time to formulate/analyze questions/answers, I think forum-mafia might suit me better. I've read the guide and a few of the recommended older mafia games on this forum. Soon I realized that I definitely will need to take notes to keep up with everything that will be happening. Therefore I plan on making a list of posts I like or dislike (aka read as towny or scummy) sorted by day and poster. I also plan on tracking relationships between posters (who is pushing whom and so on). And now a question especially (but not only) for our vets: can you recommend other stuff that is worth noting down/tracking? Were you planning to post this before the game started? | ||
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You should have a coach you can ask. It's not optimal to ask actual playing players. To be honest, asking me (and others) is kinda making me read you mafia (as I kinda expect you to know you have a coach). Also, what does NAI stand for? | ||
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HtS posted like 1 1/2 hours before day started. Nowhere to be found. SL didn't interact. | ||
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##Vote: HtS | ||
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On May 03 2015 09:28 The Shining wrote: He did ask if you were the obs dude, as well. As for HTS, I'm slightly hesitant there. That's pure policy to me. It's late for her and it's the weekend. She said she'd pick it up tomorrow. Rofl. Where did she say that? | ||
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On May 03 2015 09:34 The Shining wrote: Ebwop: he = SL. You see, HtS says she'd pick it up in the 2nd half of this phase. If she doesn't, I'd lynch her. But right now, we have SL who won't play D1, as per pre game, did his town spoiler thing and disappeared. I'd rather vote him and force him to play. ##Vote: Sicklucker Where did HtS say this? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484531-newbie-student-mafia-ix-voting-thread | ||
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On May 03 2015 09:40 The Shining wrote: Nah but now I know you're not reading. Thanks for that. "It's not in her filter." I want to believe you just thought you caught something but the lie hurts. You're just trying to throw scum on me. Red flag. Scott actually looks worse for posting a pointless ut oh, as opposed to checking HtS filter himself to see if you were even being truthful. Ya except that trying to play around such an easy argument is pointless. So no. Fact is that I missed it, alas. I was scanning for Saturday night, not Sunday. | ||
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On May 03 2015 09:45 scott31337 wrote: That HtS message was posted on April 25th/last week. I don't think that counts Nobody knew the game was starting Saturday until a couple days ago.Nah, I already caught that post. She legit posted one on May 1 saying she's gone first half of D1. | ||
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It's not optimal to ask other players because you are in the game with them. I'm not going to be able to give straight up advice because I am unsure of his alignment. | ||
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On May 03 2015 10:46 Superbia wrote: Why is that important? | ||
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On May 03 2015 10:47 Fecalfeast wrote: Shows you're not being as attentive to the thread as you'd like to portray Assuming I want to portray anything? x: What circle am I in? | ||
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On May 03 2015 10:49 Fecalfeast wrote: I just clicked your colour from my 'slight townlean green' to 'null yellowy orange colour' You monster. | ||
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The entire thing also starts off with an excuse: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: Hey guys. Sorry for the late entry. I've been somewhat distracted playing KanColle recently; there's an event on and I'm desperate to clear it, first event I've been in. Anyway there's probably just about enough to write something on most people now so...off we go. Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: What are you apologizing for? This feels like you yourself don't have any faith in your reads. This is likely because you had to fabricate them due to being mafia, because you feel confident enough to start a wagon on scott. Also, starting off with an apology for being late is pretty mafia. There's also a flagrant disparity between what you say about disformation and ritoky (which leads me to believe both are town if you end up being mafia): + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: disformation starting post I REALLY don't like. However he IS making an attempt to start producing reads. Earnest newbie with a weak entry I think. Weakly town. ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. So you say that you yourself did not like disformation's opening post, but you feel like ritoky is scummy for pushing on him? Is it not townie for ritoky to push on something that may very well be scummy? Furthermore, "easy push"? Since when are you so sure that disformation is town? Rest of your reads are pretty fluffy. | ||
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On May 03 2015 20:22 sicklucker wrote: I like your first point and I had the same thought altho I didnt think it ment that much. I think your pretty scummy so far. Like why did you even vote hts.. Because I felt like it? I felt like at least 2 out of 3 mafia were not in the thread yet at that point in time. Stab in the dark pressure. Are you even town? Why would voting HtS make me mafia? | ||
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What is/was your red read on ritoky then? Did you feel a need to include him as scum because you felt a need to put down a team of 3? Why did you mention ritoky's push on disinformation? Also, how long did it take you to formulate that response? I.e., when did you read my post and when did you start to post this? | ||
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On May 03 2015 22:01 -Celestial- wrote: You're defending him by attacking me, who also has a red read on you. That's a classic mafia side play. And now you're trying to distance yourself from it by claiming its reaching a bit. There was already an association between the two of you and you made it stronger with your post. You can claim that its reaching all you want but ultimately the association was there BEFORE you posted, you just made it worst. The problem with this logic is that all that you're saying is that this is my agenda, you're not proving it. Why am I not town trying to figure out your alignment? On May 03 2015 22:01 -Celestial- wrote: I wanted to try and get an early impression of who the whole team might by. My red read on him is as quoted, with the key part highlighted: To elaborate: virtually all of his posts to that point read as someone trying to send down off into discussing other things rather than hunting for mafia. Apart from a very soft push on a very soft target, which I assume was made to make it look like he was actually doing something. It was a weaker read than my read of you and scott given your apparent collusion, but it was still a read. Since then he's done a bit more, but I'm still highly suspicious after that opening since he only started actually doing anything after I pushed him. You have a number of people as null/neutral based on them not discussing the game or actively doing anything (iirc). Why is ritoky scum for doing this? | ||
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On May 04 2015 01:48 ritoky wrote: while i agree with you that the majority of that opening post is meh at best, his scott read is good. you don't seem to mention it as having any value. why? if you disagree, tell me bout it m8. The scott read was okay at best. I don't see how it is very alignment indicative. Did scott really blindly trust me? I don't know. It's not entirely clear to me what scott did that lead to the decision to vote HtS, it was pretty quiet after I thought I caught the slip. To me it felt like there was a bit of confusion from scott's part on what was actually happening. I would like to hear some more from scott on his thought process, but I don't find his vote on HtS particularly alignment indicative. | ||
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On May 04 2015 01:54 ritoky wrote: maybe scott and maybe shining atm are my top 2. not particularly firm on either. am moreso looking for towns right now. i think me, ff, -c- are pretty much town. then superbia, and prp are 2nd tier town for now. I like shining as scum too. I'm undecided on scott. I had him as town early on. I'm decently sure -c- is town here as well. Undecided on prp, but I liked his initial thoughts. Also agreed on FF being town. | ||
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On May 04 2015 01:59 ritoky wrote: it reminded me of how i lynched mafia on day 1 in hearthstone mafia. someone gave a piss poor and inaccurate read on day 1. and then another player immediately agreed with it and helped push it as an attempt to pocket the person who made the read and get in on the ground floor of a lynch. i looked into the accuracy of the read/push and it was complete garbage. in that situation, the guy who follows the garbage read is usually more likely scum than the person making it. that was the case in hearthstone. and i think i poorly explained this one, rip me. Yeah, maybe. I thought he was decently townie before any of that though. I also thought that the interactions between scott and the shining were shady (iirc). Felt like at least one of them trusted the other one too easily (and maybe some pocketing going on). | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:03 ritoky wrote: he made one of the highest quality observations in the thread in regard to shining and i had literally the exact same thought reading the exact same thing: he is also giving definitive alignment reads instead of hedging. if i remember prp's play right he hedges a lot more as mafia. I think the read was wrong though. It was definitely a jokey post. That being said, I didn't like the post regardless. What did it accomplish? The joke and the followup felt very forced. | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:06 ritoky wrote: explain the SL wagon idea, is it pressure or legit scum? I hate that he pre-game said he doesn't play d1. I think SL is usually a pretty easy town read for me (it has to do with activity and the way that he posts), but I haven't read him town at all. | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:13 ritoky wrote: well that doesn't help inform my read on SL at all lol Nah, I know. I just want to see some pressure on him and see how he reacts. If I disclaim my exact way of reading him before his reactions, it might fuck things up. :D | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:22 ritoky wrote: you're gonna have to sell me on it. he is null for me. i mean maybe he is a little bleh cuz posting for the sake of posting, but that's minor at best. -Shrug-. You're not doing anything with your vote anyway. May as well park it on someone. Might get some info from pressure. | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:25 Fecalfeast wrote: Stayed up all night pretty much watching Kespa cup, about to watch gfinity finals. Anything exciting going on? I skimmed the last pages, what made you drop your shit on cel, super? Is it really your birthday? Or is it your korean birthday? Her aggression and specifically her conviction. I was hoping to get some more thoughts from other people after I read her town but meh, couldn't be bothered. It is my birthday in korean time. For me, it's my bday tomorrow. | ||
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On May 04 2015 02:30 scott31337 wrote: So I jumped a bit to conclusions with HtS - I actually thought that QT information was spilled - I did put a vote in this thread and by the time I found out about the vote thread - I reread her pregame filter with both D1 excuses - from April 25th and from May 1st. There was no need to vote her in the voting thread. I've voted SL for now, he's still at the bottom of my list. I've caught up in the thread - I was about to ask Ritoky about his prplhz read but he explained this already. Did you read HtS's filter before you put down your vote? | ||
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On May 04 2015 04:06 cakepie wrote: VOTE COUNT: sicklucker (3) : The Shining, scott31337, Superbia scott31337 (2) : -Celestial-, sicklucker -Celestial- (0) : Half the Sky (0) : Not voting (8) : disformation, FecalFeast, Half the Sky, prplhz, ritoky, Stutters695, Tictock, y0su The cycle will end at Monday, May 04 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), 28 hours from this post. remain as you are reading this. Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread. Currently, sicklucker is set to be lynched! If you see any vote out of place, holler at the hosting team so that we can correct it. Jesus, there's even links to the vote posts and the unvote posts. Pro as fuck. :D | ||
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On May 04 2015 04:56 The Shining wrote: Like. How do you scum mee, null/claim you town someone early in Scott, claim you don't want to lynch him and there was possible pocketing between us, THEN VOTE WITH US? Don't really care who's voting on SL at the moment? I just want to know more about his alignment. | ||
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On May 04 2015 04:58 Half the Sky wrote: Finished my personal obligations for today - knackered, but nonetheless, reading the thread and catching up. Any pertinent issues that need focused on in the meantime? Ya. Who are your team mates? | ||
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On May 04 2015 05:45 The Shining wrote: Explain how I'm scum before pushing the same person your scum is pushing, maybe? And would you mind explaining this whole trust/pocketing thing you got from Scott and me interacting? I said I was suspicious of him. He Towned me. But I'm the scum for trusting too easily and pocketing and Scott shouldn't be lynched? Still doesn't make sense. You're not even pushing your own scumread in me. Votes this early don't really matter. You can easily "change your mind" as scum after SL actually posts some stuff. You posted your whole awkward intro joke thing and scott instantly "caught on" (iirc, you guys had pre-game banter too). You then follow this up by giving him a hard town read based on something which I deem to be absolutely benign. This felt like a pocket to me. He instantly follows up by also calling you hard town. Also feels like a pocket. Especially since both of you guys have a history. So I feel like one of you is trying to pocket the other there. As for why I'm not pushing you: I'm still fine with prodding and collecting information. I don't solve the game during the first half of d1. I do it during the second half (though with my bday it may complicate things). | ||
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On May 04 2015 05:47 Fecalfeast wrote: "FF is scum because he hasn't done much" into "Why are you saying FF is town" rather than "EVERYONE VOTE FF KILL HIM" or something less exaggerated. How does this makes him town? He's a newer player, right? Why does un-exaggerated content make him town? | ||
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On May 04 2015 05:58 Fecalfeast wrote: that's not what I said. He didn't try to bury me, he instead questioned others. I was saying MY post was exaggerated. At least the CAPS LOCK part. Yeah, but what I'm getting at is this: as mafia, would tictock try to bury you there? I don't see how his behaviour makes him clear town whatsoever. | ||
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On May 04 2015 06:02 Fecalfeast wrote: As mafia, would tictock come out swinging at the guy the majority of active players are towning? The answer is indeed "probably not". So I don't understand your hard town-read whatsoever. | ||
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On May 04 2015 06:06 Fecalfeast wrote: and then follow it up on other people to see why they are TRing me, yeah. Meh? That makes him your hardest town? | ||
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What else do you have? | ||
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On May 04 2015 09:00 sicklucker wrote: ya I realize your probably my best read in the game which isint saying much. Im also not commited to killing you via the fact im not voting you. You claim you have a really strong read on me but your attitude is more. Meh ill just kill him before he has a chance to type anything Incorrect. My attitude is to get you to come into the thread and do shit. You've done the first, please do the second. :D | ||
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I will post where I'm at at this point in time: Town: Ritoky Fecalfeast Lean Town: y0su - Filter feels natural. Really liked the question regarding ritoky's transition from loopiness to serious. Null(ish): prplhz: I am conflicted. On the one hand I liked his very early d1 jokey behaviour and his ping on shining. On the other hand, he asks me what I think of celestial, even though I was one of the most outspoken persons when it came to celestial (feels like he isn't paying attention). Also hasn't really done anything. scott: Meh. I need to really interact with the dude but I haven't done so. He cleared his thought process on the HtS thing, which feels natural. I had him as town before that because he felt like he was relaxed, but I'm not comfortable putting him on the town pile due to a healthy dose of suspicion (e.g. the whole trusting the shining debacle). Lean Scum: disinformation - Promises to read filters with no real result (imo). This post looks really weird: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 19:56 disformation wrote:ritoky: Your two pushes so were were easy pushes on me and y0su, both of which are newbies. Coincidence or looking for easy misslynches? You also seem to be defensive of superbia. Scum mate of yours? disinformation calls y0su a misslynch, but does not have any opinion on y0su in his filter. TMI. The Shining - Meh. I've said stuff about him before which kinda holds. His aggressiveness towards me feels kinda townish, as I don't really expect mafia to be aggro towards me (big ego), but they still might. His filter content wise feels very similar to his town filters, but he seems very bitter and sardonic this game, while in his other town games he is decently jokey and relaxed. Bitterness is a mafia tell. I am hesitant because this purely comes from his interactions with me. Sicklucker - NEEDS TO START DOING SHIT. WHO IS MAFIA AND WHY? WTF: Half the Sky - Half assed scum-read on a town (from my perspective), then leaves thread. What? Rest is null though I may have forgotten some. | ||
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Pressure: - SL: needs to do shit (i.e. give reads). - HtS: needs to do shit (i.e. give reads). - prp: needs to do shit (i.e. give reads). - The Shining: needs to not be defensive anymore and give reads on essentially everyone. - disinformation: ask why he thought y0su was a "misslynch". Pressure into giving reads. Watch for TMI. - Scott: Hard reads on pretty much everyone with a conclusion. Pointers: - Celestial: stop tunneling. - Rest: Post thoughts. Come to hard conclusions. Don't be afraid to be wrong. | ||
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As for HtS, I vote for pressure at this point in time. I have no way to back up my vote or pressure tomorrow, so meh. I just hope I'll be around to put down a definitive vote. I probably will be able to. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=32#632 How can you post that much without reaching a conclusion on y0su? Like to be honest I've only skimmed the post but what the fuck. | ||
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Sum up what she has done today in one sentence and then tell me it's townie. | ||
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Somewhat. Where are you at right now? You think I'm scum and I feel that's most of what you've been saying today. I know this is absolute bullshit. I feel you are treading in the wake of -celestial-, who is town but wrong. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:38 Half the Sky wrote: Then refute my case point by point. Where is the distinction between celestial who is town but wrong and myself? Because I feel like celestial is actually believing the shit she's saying. I think it's shit, but it feels genuine. There is also a direction with what she wants to do. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:41 Half the Sky wrote: After he answered my last case post - I was willing to leave him alone. Right now, I'd say a weak town read. I am looking for the quotes of where he answered my latest concerns. Then what was the point of that entire post? | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:42 -Celestial- wrote: I'd say that quotes like this are pretty aggressive: "Your last two posts indicate to me you aren't reading the thread at the very least, or not considering/ignoring context" "It's circular reasoning that quite frankly not only makes my head spin, but makes me wonder if you're coming up with a read for the sake of coming up with a read." And she was pushing fairly hard for some justifications from y0su's very vague 'feeling'. One sentence? She's played it safe by following up on things said prior. I dislike that there's nothing particular bold in there, but I don't find it to be particularly alignment indicative either. She could either be mafia taking refuge in posting a few things and leaving it there or a townie willing to pick at a few things that are ongoing and wait for the first lynch before going for something a bit more aggressive when she has more information. This is not town play. She's mafia or a PR. Straight up. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:43 Half the Sky wrote: And I'm not going to flip mafia. You're looking for a mislynch here. You are saying my reads are wrong, Anyone can say anyone's reads are bullshit but you haven't clarified why. I'm getting complete scum vibes from prplhz, and I've refuted him and ritoky (who I'm less sure of being scum), last I had a weak townread on him. I don't have a problem with people scumreading me, I have a problem though with how people do it. I could see ritoky's thought processes more clearly and I was able to iron out, not with prplhz. And much less with you right now. I have ritoky as HARD town. I know I'm town myself. So I know your reads are not making any sense. This paired with your completely passive day convinces me that you're mafia. Like I am vehemently believing that scott is either flipping town here or mafia has been bussing hard. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:43 disformation wrote: Not changing my vote. Superbia is just looking like he wants to confuse the hell out of town. This guy is probably mafia. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:45 Half the Sky wrote: Superbia, this is about as simple as it gets. If someone looks scummy, you question it. If your concerns resolve, you move on. If not, you push for their lynch. Why are you making something more complicated than it needs to be? Things are not complicated. You are mafia. You have not done anything new. You have rehashed wrong reads from celestial (town in my world). | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:49 Half the Sky wrote: I explained to ritoky the same thing I explained to you - first off, this is D1. There is definitely a world in which D1, no one has flipped, and two townies have different perspectives where they reach different conclusions on people. I already beat ritoky to death why I'm not townreading him as hard. He is definitely NOT a lynch, let alone a number one lynch. The push on me is at best OMGUS, but you are really appearing desperate to get a lynch off, and I already explained the passive game, assuming you mean my activity. Your activity is passive. I don't care so much about inactivity. The time you have spent posting has been absolutely wasted. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:50 ritoky wrote: weigh in on hts plz and ty FF | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:52 Superbia wrote: 7m to read. 1m to vote. GO. | ||
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Make it short pls. :D | ||
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That fucking ninja. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:56 Stutters695 wrote: Forgot to put it in the voting thread and realized I was going to get modkilled. Get over yourself. Not engaging in conversation until pinged out. Big town plays. | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:57 Fecalfeast wrote: superbia every time I read your posts I imagine an angry face. Are you angry face? I am a fucking exalted face. | ||
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On May 05 2015 08:04 ritoky wrote: well i am gonna get motherfucking killed tonight. Probably. | ||
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Pretty obvious, active lurking. You only seem to post when you need to defend yourself. | ||
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- Why are you townreading Stutters? - Vote analysis. | ||
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On May 06 2015 03:51 Stutters695 wrote: Weekend, I hate d1 with a passion. This literally happened last (finished) game as well, except I was almost mislynched d1 for it. Gonna lynch prpl with me? No. Probably not. Answer the questions please. | ||
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On May 06 2015 03:58 ritoky wrote: superbia, gimme your read on y0su Bleh. Haven't really evaluated him further. Had him as town early on for shit but he hasn't done anything since iirc. I feel like some of town is really making this game harder than it should be. | ||
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On May 06 2015 04:03 ritoky wrote: @super what was the town shit he did? also whatchu make of the FF dropoff, is he pulling a me? Ugh. I've seen FF do dumb as fuck shit as town. He needs to start doing shit again but I think he's still town. I felt like he was relaxed or something early on d1. He kinda slipped my mind as the day went on. IDK where he's at right now. He needs to give some reads. | ||
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FF, HtS, Stutters, please answer my queries. Thanks. | ||
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On May 06 2015 04:36 Half the Sky wrote: Seriously? That's a loaded question, regardless of whom you are asking. What in the bloody hell are you trying to achieve asking this? And VCA I can try, but same problem - VCA doesn't do much in the way of (useful) information right now when no scum have flipped. I know I'm town, and both main wagons were town with Scott having flipped. You're in a position where you should be able to see the merits of scum switching if you're town. Why was scum not swayed by arguments in the last moments and switched to you? Or did they? If so, who was it? I want you to draw conclusions from my aggression versus you and the fact that everyone kept their vote on Scott. Also where are you at with my alignment right now? | ||
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I'm very surprised I'm still alive tbh. | ||
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That leaves me with towns: - Superbia - Ritoky - Celestial - Half the Sky I am fine with throwing prp in there as well. My town read on y0su is pretty much gone. I am expecting huge things from The Shining, as his pre-game excuse has vanished. | ||
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On May 06 2015 08:16 prplhz wrote: why hts in there? Honestly, I looked at all her past scum games and there is no real comparison to this game. It looks way more like her town game, but for some reason she is less relaxed. I was really waffling on her before I left to chill, and I am still not sure, but I don't think she is scum here. | ||
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I also think we have a cop. I think vigi would've, and should've shot tonight. I think that the mafia thought I was the cop for whatever reason. Either that or we have a vigi who for some didn't shoot after a miss-lynch.. | ||
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On May 06 2015 08:26 Stutters695 wrote: Why do you have a town read on prpl? Stop dodging the wisdom. He has echoed my thoughts on multiple occasions. Why do you have him as scum? | ||
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##Vote: Stutters695 | ||
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On May 06 2015 08:30 Stutters695 wrote: Itt you're clearly not reading. Lynch prpl, then Super. Easy skins easy life. This is not how you solve the game. If you're town you need to re-think right now. Let's assume prp is scum. Who is scum other than prp? What's his team? | ||
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Anyone who believes that I'm scummier than: - Tictock - disformation - y0su - The Shining - Half the Sky - prplhz - sicklucker - Stutters695 I am interested to hear your thoughts on all of the above. | ||
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On May 07 2015 01:35 Half the Sky wrote: There are too many lurkers. I wish I could pressure them all really. Yeah. But you're not. You're pressuring town, and the most vocal one at that. | ||
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On May 07 2015 01:45 Half the Sky wrote: sicklucker and Celestial - evaluate Superbia's behaviour INDEPENDENT of meta (or in this case his RB claim). There are town and mafia motivations for claiming RB. My contention is that his behaviour in this game there is a mafia agenda. To sum up my arguments. 1 Loaded questions - both to myself and Stutters - generally unproductive 2 Misdirection plays 3 The quote where he talks in absolutes where he's basically asking to dismiss him as a scum candidate 4 The DT claim request - DT claims this early in the day destroy the day 5 Behaviour EoD 1 was a "toys out the pram" approach to getting me lynched and his read progression was lacking with OMGUS in there 6 Post lynch he has ZERO focus on me and goes off on Stutters And finally the meta - I am not meta reading it but the above looks very bad, I don't care that he's active because activity alone does not guarantee he's pure. I hate defending myself as town and I fucking hate explaining myself. What is my goal here as mafia? "chaos"? What utter bullshit. I am hard to follow, and it has caused me to get misslynched in the past 2 games, so get over it. I don't explain shit because I hate doing it. I want to find mafia and solve the game, not writes pages of text regarding my thought process. Blargh. 1. Loaded questions? Are you fucking serious? I asked stutters for the rest of the team simply because I wanted to know his mafia reads outside of prp. What other loaded questions were there? And how do they come from a mafia mindset. 2. I genuinely don't even know what this means. Is this an assumption of my underlying mindset? 3. I should be dismissed from being a scum candidate. FF is my favorite player to play with, even if we are differently aligned. He was obviously VT and not a role as well. Why the fuck do I ever put KP on him? And before you bring up WIFOM, I have no reason to cover my ass or to use d1 KP to get WIFOM going. It's absolutely suboptimal. I hunt for PRs with KP, or strong town. You want to paint the world in which I kill my favorite player who is OBVIOUSLY VT and to WASTE THE ROLEBLOCK. Wow, what mafia play. 4. DT claim? What are you even talking about? Is this the whole red check confirm thing I asked because someone softed it? Yeah, I want to know whether a questionable person is adamant about scum-reading (and literally only doing that) one of my townies. 5. Well at least I didn't fucking join the scott wagon like the rest of the "townies", right? I tried to salvage a disastrous d1 by going on you. Yes, I absolutely believed you were mafia at EoD1. Your two "red" reads? Both town. I did not see any real scum hunting, just someone tagging along trying to appear town. Sure, your posts were big, but mafia can make big posts. Even if you flipped town it would've gotten us way more information from the votes than the garbage we have now. 6. Because I re-evaluated you completely and this is the world I want to live in today. Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me. | ||
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How in the seven hells do you want to lynch prp when people like the shining have not done anything after pressure was removed. | ||
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On May 07 2015 02:47 ritoky wrote: super, what do you think of me null reading you cuz of your mason thing? It's town. You're paranoid, it's fine. Either that or you're trying to pocket me right now, but I'm not going to be concerned about you until it's like final 3 or something. | ||
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On May 07 2015 02:48 Half the Sky wrote: Regarding #1 - the question where you asked me what I thought of my D1 performance. That was loaded because what does that tell you about my alignment? If I say it's good or bad, then what? Regarding #3 - FF can be a medic dodge or the result of a blue hunt attempt. We will never know. And in the presence of a veteran, you always RB and kill so that people CANNOT claim RB and confirm themselves town. Scum want to limit information. Killing the person you roleblock DOES EXACTLY THAT. Regarding #4, I'm talking about when you said for Stutters to claim if you had a red check on prplhz. Why would you do it so early and try and direct scum actions at night? I could understand a newbie doing this not understanding the ramifications but you are experienced to know this. You get him to out that early in the day, everyone AFK votes the red check and nothing gets done, DT dies that night. In Student 5 this exactly happened, and I don't want that mistake happening again. Regarding #6, you pinged Stutters post-lynch and you read my scum games only D2 so you can't say that you pinged Stutters BECAUSE you re-evaluated me. Because you pinged him BEFORE you read my scum games, not the other way around. 1. If you were going to say either, I would want to know your thought process behind it, and how it has affected your progression of reads (are you re-evaluating, etc.). This is why I don't want to explain shit like this. I don't want scum (and therefore, anyone) to know the idea behind the questions I'm asking. Is it benign? Is it serious? Who knows but me. 3. Except FF was never blue there, and thus a shitty medic dodge. If I thought FF was blue I would've pressured him EoD (or EoN, w/e) for changing his mind on things to generally dodgy reads and see if I can get a better role-read on him. Instead, when Ritoky (iirc) asks me what I think of FF, and I say he's probably still town and I leave it at that. Scum don't give a shit about who they roleblock n1 specifically for this reason. You are going about it the wrong way. I am town and scum had some sort of role-read on me. No idea why. 4. BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT. He was pushing hard on prp the entire time and he was shady as fuck for lurking EoD1 (still is) and getting caught hard (oh btw, pretty everyone I've caught lurking at EoD1 has been scum during past games). Then all he does is tunnel on prp hard for small, benign reasons and throwing some scum on me (iirc), which is just scummy as fuck. So, I want to know if I need to waste my time reading him or if we can lynch prp and I can re-evaluate from that flip. The whole different game same story thing is cute, but ultimately irrelevant. It's supposed to be about my alignment, not your opinion on cop outing early d2 with a red. Wanting the cop to out with a red in a vacuum is absolutely not alignment indicative, let alone these circumstances (which make it probably more town-indicative). 6. What does this have to do with anything? Maybe I answered your initial question incorrectly: I caught stutters actively lurking red-handedly. I thought it was super scummy, I go after stutters. I saw no reason to keep bashing heads with you since the lynch was already done, and I had room to re-evaluate everything. | ||
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On May 07 2015 02:56 Half the Sky wrote: And if you're town, you'll resolve my concerns (or the concerns of any town who scumreads you). There are points I've gone about even with ritoky just now that make it less likely that you are scum. But I am putting out my thoughts in full so you see where I'm coming from. I have nothing to hide as town. I'm not voting you down for shits and giggles. I'm explaining what I don't like and why I don't. And there are others I have a problem with as well. I have you as town. This is why I feel this is a tremendous waste of time. Nothing personal, but once I think someone is town I'm kind of done with them. | ||
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This is why I am/was reading him town. Will re-evaluate in a few, as I've just said. | ||
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On May 07 2015 03:29 sicklucker wrote: no they are not if your town you should agree with them. So far 3 people have agreed my logic is ok and no one disagreed And you have all of these people as town? | ||
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On May 07 2015 03:29 -Celestial- wrote: What reads? His "reads" D1 as far as I can tell amounted to a bad feeling on Shining, a bad feeling on me and an OMGUS on HtS which turned into a wagon after you picked it up and started pushing. As well as a bunch of rambling about how he just didn't like the scott wagon, but never actually seemed to specifically read scott unless I missed it somewhere. His strongest "push" was him saying that someone ELSE needed to push the HtS wagon with around 40 minutes to go here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=38#749 You seem to be giving him a totally free pass for doing virtually nothing at all. K. Let's all circlejerk onto prp like we did with scott. Like I haven't even re-evaluated him yet, but the fact that so many people are jumping on him so readily already irks the shit out of me. It's almost never mafia then. Same with scott d1. I haven't re-valuated him because I have no fucking interest in jumping on yet another singular wagon. | ||
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On May 07 2015 03:39 -Celestial- wrote: Right now there's three people on prplhz, two on you and two on Shining. That's hardly circlejerking onto a singular wagon. The two on me are wasted and I'm not counting them. I feel like I am one of the most vocal and prominent people in town. If I switch who the fuck is going to provide a different voice? | ||
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On May 07 2015 04:35 y0su wrote: Superbia d1 posting was sporadic and I can let some go with his birthday. His EoD comes off as either just super rushed or trying to create confusion. His posts read like he doesn't have any aim but to get people to vote HtS in a hurry. His posts have a lot of pressure (am I using that right?) to get answers but any conclusions he keeps to himself. He also does a 180 on HtS (based on her meta - not that he survived the night) but keeps his (unexplained) pressure on dis (although as a 3rd wagon). I like is desire for multiple trains but that seems NAI prplhz more like rdhz. No d1 excuse... no filter.. OMGUS vote on HtS. All of that could change if we get some d2 out of him. I particularly don't like + Show Spoiler + you guys need to push this hts thing btw. don't know when's the last time i saw a scum be up for lynch and then oppose the alternative wagon (well okay i sort of did that when it was me or LS in titanic but that was probably a bad move lol). sicklucker I've been waiting for some d2 content from him... all I see is statistical claims. (one of my favorite quotes of all times is "figures don't lie, but liars do the figuring"). Since then, I've always been a skeptic and need some proof(s). "75% of statistics are made up" Stutters695 another "no d1" case... but picking up a bit more now. His posts seem to have direction but it's all at prp without much more than meta. So far I'm not trying to form a scum team so I'm not concerned with a red read voting another red read. Going to be on more now and looking into d2 more critically (especially the interactions of the reds and half red) So my team mate sicklucker is pushing me? | ||
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On May 07 2015 04:43 y0su wrote: can you explain your TR on HtS? Specifically when and how did you go from voting for her to TR? I don't think she stays that active and adamant after surviving EoD1 as scum. There was more but I forgot. I'm no longer interested in lynching her today. | ||
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On May 07 2015 04:55 -Celestial- wrote: @HtS: Not a fan of the responses. I can understand some of his arguments but it seems to me he's playing this way too close to his chest for me to be comfortable with. If I had to pick one thing in particular out I really don't like its the fight back against the whole killing FF thing. He's insisting that FF was never blue. But we can't prove that's what he actually thought or that's what ANYONE thought. I don't recall anyone going "oh that FF is definitely not blue" because that'd be a godawful town play anyway. The argument then switches to "if I thought FF was blue I'd do X, Y, Z" which is entirely not alignment indicative because he can say literally anything at all he wants here and nobody can prove otherwise. Then he's continuing to hammer away at the fact that he claims he got roleblocked and mafia has a role read on him; which is another thing nobody can actually verify. There does seem to be a hint of frustration that he claims he feels when people scum him when he's town; but that could easily be him feeling pressured as red either. I don't like that he's making a big deal about the fact that people should dismiss him as a scum candidate on the basis of things he's claiming that nobody else can prove. Read FF's filter and then tell me he could be blue. Like the whole premise of me being scum is ridiculous. I'm not joking. It's the dumbest thing ever. | ||
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y0su, what are your other reads? What do you think about people like The Shining, tictock and disformation? | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:15 y0su wrote:I have both of my "newb teammates" mostly town. I'm definitely giving them a lot of room as rookies though for how they played "up till now". What are you saying here? | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:16 y0su wrote: EBWOP, i was answering super (and his lack of reading) not dis. (although doesn't change much regarding TS) Lack of reading what? | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:25 Stutters695 wrote: You're helpless. 10 minutes is also not enough time to analyze meta. Did you even look at a scum game? No, I did not. I looked at 2 games (both VT) and decided that there was a big enough disparity between the games to justify not defending him today. | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:25 y0su wrote: Right now I think I'm most willing to vote SL. I'm really disappointed in his d2 content and reasons for voting super. (yes I have super red, but not for the same reasons - I feel like he's doing the most to confuse town) TS could still slip into a tie with prp. What do you make of the shining's reads? | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:28 Stutters695 wrote: But you still won't lynch him? I'd prefer to get other shit going while we still have half the day left? | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:28 Half the Sky wrote: Um Superbia....we were both in Titanic. You were vet, I was miller, prplhz was scum JOAT (more or less). That should be a decent basis for comparison, you think this game is closer to that one? Wait we were? Let me check. | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:31 Half the Sky wrote: You don't remember that game? That was Titanic 7, I Have a Cunning Plan. The Blackadder game where Sentinel had the two JKs. You and I both made it to late game. prplhz was the final scummer. You HAVE to remember. ritoky was third party SK. prplhz DID JACK ALL that game. If any game is good to meta, THAT'S THE ONE. Yeah his filter here looks similar to that one. I may actually have a good read on him if he actually flips scum here. I kind of forgot he was in that game. If I recall correctly slam red-checked him d4 or something? After I led the wagon on palmar. | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:40 Half the Sky wrote: Slam played DT extremely well. He red-checked Rasputin and prplhz and then he thought I might be SK, so he red-checked me (after all the scum were dead) to confirm I wasn't third party. And very good breadcrumbs on top of that. Y e a h I R e m e m b e r | ||
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On May 07 2015 05:47 y0su wrote: It's a lot of excuses. Very scummy. His only "read" is a weak town on HtS in which he goes wifom to justify it being weak. That said, RL comes up so I'm not going to jump on him cause he's not the only one afk (or lurking). So it's scummy but it's not? | ||
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You're literally making excuses for him. x: | ||
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On May 07 2015 06:41 ritoky wrote: on phone so don't have much capabilities of posting quality info. but i think there's at least 1 between ticktock and prp. and 1 between y0su and shining. I'm not sure about the 1 between, but I have all 4 of those currently on my scum list. Shining probably the least scummy at the moment. Not entirely sure. Gonna go to sleep soon and evaluate/solve tomorrow. Day off so should be good. | ||
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On May 07 2015 23:50 Half the Sky wrote: Another EBWOP - Town Superbia in Guardians and Down Under 2 - nowhere near active or combative. He has very pointed statements and more combative (particularly the swearing) both in Campus and in this game. It's tonal but it's still another parallel on top of that. Wrong. Look at the point in both games were people are starting to pressure me and wanting to lynch me and compare that to here. It really annoys me. I'm only chill if the game is going according to my will. So far it has been far from it, but I'm warming up to the prp lynch. Also, iirc from the titanic game, I also read prp sort of townie d1 for subscribing to my thought pattern, so yeah.We should have a second wagon for infos though. If prp flips town it's going to be meh. I want 2nd wagon on someone like y0su or something. His entire town circle consisted of (town, imo, except maybe TT) people who were having doubts on him at that point in time, if I'm not mistaken. Also didn't really do much until he was pinged out, and the entire list felt forced. Like he didn't really want to accomplish anything with it. | ||
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If not, I'm probably confirmed town lol. | ||
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Vigi needs to shoot tonight. We can figure out whom when I get back. (prob stutters) | ||
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On May 08 2015 04:40 sicklucker wrote: This post is like he knows hes getting cced for the 1 for 1 trade You do realize I was pretty much confirmed if he was town, right. Not if he is mafia. | ||
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HtS, what are your thoughts on stutters? Do you feel he is justified in going after prp that hard that early? | ||
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On May 08 2015 04:48 Half the Sky wrote: I don't even know what a dumbtell is. *shrug* Intentionally pretending you don't know what's going on to appear townie. | ||
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Stutters being absolutely adamant about the prp lynch indicates that he is scum with prp trying to look good after prp flips. Tell me with a straight face that any townie is that convinced prp and only prp is scum as he was at that point in time. TMI all the way. Attempting to set up the lynch on disinfo (who is confirmed town) post-lynch (#24201038) is icing on the proverbial cake. Notice that 80% of his filter is asking people why they aren't voting for prp and setting up lynches post-flip (on me as well, keeps indicating I'm defending prp). Townie people at that (as far as I see). He's literally reading me scum half-way through d2 for defending prp, while he shouldn't even be sure of prp's alignment. Literally look at his filter, it's just setting up lynches for post-flip. He is so incredibly sure on prp's alignment it's impossible for a VT. No, I don't think he's the cop unless he hard claims it (tomorrow). He was adamant on prp before the night phase even ended. | ||
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Here is what stutters has done: - Weak-ass push on scott (confirmed town). - Getting caught lurking at EoD (incredibly scummy). - TMI push on prp. - Set up post-flip lynches on confirmed town. Kill it with fire. | ||
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On May 08 2015 05:02 Superbia wrote: Prp was planning not to play coming into d2. This was highly likely communicated in QT. Stutters being absolutely adamant about the prp lynch indicates that he is scum with prp trying to look good after prp flips. Tell me with a straight face that any townie is that convinced prp and only prp is scum as he was at that point in time. TMI all the way. Attempting to set up the lynch on disinfo (who is confirmed town) post-lynch (#24201038) is icing on the proverbial cake. Notice that 80% of his filter is asking people why they aren't voting for prp and setting up lynches post-flip (on me as well, keeps indicating I'm defending prp). Townie people at that (as far as I see). He's literally reading me scum half-way through d2 for defending prp, while he shouldn't even be sure of prp's alignment. Literally look at his filter, it's just setting up lynches for post-flip. He is so incredibly sure on prp's alignment it's impossible for a VT. No, I don't think he's the cop unless he hard claims it (tomorrow). He was adamant on prp before the night phase even ended. Post for next page. Read it. Read his filter. | ||
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On May 05 2015 23:53 prplhz wrote: i actually think stutters is best lynch tomorrow just for that single thing This into not talking about stutters at all d2. | ||
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Yeh I don't think he's particularly mafia atm. | ||
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On May 08 2015 07:27 Half the Sky wrote: Superbia, what exactly reeked of TMI? Just a tonal read on his hard pushes on prplhz post-lynch? Wasn't sure if there was a particular quote that screamed TMI in your head. Him being extremely adamant about pushing prp. I believe I asked him about it at some point too and I thought his answer was quite lackluster. Like I don't understand how a town can come into this day and be that focused on prp while there are so many question marks floating around. | ||
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On May 07 2015 23:08 Stutters695 wrote: Just woke up. Gonna get some thoughts out today since work + another Bolts game tonight. Tyler "Literally Stamkos" Johnson is the best thing ever btw. Anyway, first impressions are it looks significantly better for Rit (more null/slight town than anything) . He "mindmelded" or w/e but dropped it when prpl went afk which would be the correct call. The biggest question imo is on Super. He's hard defended someone who hasn't done anything for 5 days basically. It's really hard to say scum would hard defend scum for that long over such shitty reasons. And when he finally got off the defense it felt unnatural as fuck. Unless he was stalling for prpl to come back from outside information, why not just cut your losses? I don't get it, feels too obvious almost. | ||
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prp: I'm not going to play (tomorrow), just bus me. Happens more than you think. | ||
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On April 21 2015 01:02 kitaman27 wrote: Town Vigilante Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. You win with the town. | ||
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On May 08 2015 08:06 Half the Sky wrote: I wondered if I would have been vigishot had you not been RBed. Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise. Nope. Had it on the shining after changing it 3x in 5m. Think it would've been a miss though. | ||
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On May 08 2015 08:08 -Celestial- wrote: I'm assuming your current target is likely to be Stutters, given how you've been talking? Yup. | ||
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I will be back later. | ||
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Way too unpredictable. Always irresponsible. Going to be invincible. | ||
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On May 09 2015 08:40 The Shining wrote: My personal town goal is to lynch last scum before you're nkd. Rolling 3 scum in 3 phases would feel great. And I'm glad you shot Stutters. A few people showed support for that shot, including me. Wonder if there's any chance the last scum tried to push the vig shot onto someone else? Yup, my goal as well. :D | ||
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Also was planning to re-evaluate him anyway, but the fact that so many people jumped on him so quickly made me feel like scum was already on him.Meh, what's in the past is in the past. I am glad that you guys pointed me in the right direction concerning his alignment. :D | ||
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Like as mafia I'd literally be shooting myself in the foot for no reason. | ||
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Looking at: - y0su - ritoky - sicklucker - ticktock Can they/someone point me to mafia/town games of these people? I'll be looking myself in the meanwhile. | ||
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The interaction between ritoky and the two scum just feels too genuine for ritoky to be scum. SL is just dumb. TT is just new. y0su has been soft-pushed (no follow-up) by stutters. y0su had stutters as meh-town, asked some half-assed questions. y0su had prp as mafia around the time I would expect a 2nd mafia to bus. y0su's push on scott d1 seems meh. Literally seems to be asking celestial to give him an excuse. | ||
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Yeah. Probably. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:07 -Celestial- wrote: I've never seen anyone get away with being so indecisive and inconclusive without being called on it honestly; and I read a fair few games over Christmas ahead of playing in LX. I think its because he's posted "stuff" without posting anything of real value. If he's town he's been basically useless for this entire game. He's done jack to help and has successfully got a significant number of people reading him in their PoE list. But nah, he's obviously town, because he says so. Idk, maybe you're right. But that doesn't necessarily makes him town. I do agree that his town filter usually is a bit more proactive, but the interactions between mafia and him feel too genuine for him to be mafia. Also I feel like ritoky would be the first to bus prp. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:14 Half the Sky wrote: This is exactly why I hate the mindmelding argument. Yeah probably gonna re-eval my early town based on this game. My d1 is usually quite meh. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:17 -Celestial- wrote: I assume you mean scum where you say town the first time there. Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't. What I do know is that we would literally be at the exact same point we are now if he hadn't played at all. :-\ Yeah. I'm quite tired. I agree, he probably can't live through this game. =/ But for now I don't think he's the most likely lynch. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:18 ritoky wrote: i think the more pertinent point is about his reads, but you could be right. also i didn't know stutters was a vet? i just expected the shot on the real doc to come from someone like you who didn't even acknowledge my claim really. I think scum is less likely to contest the doctor thing tbh. Especially after I had stutters in my sights. I think last scum wants to lay down low. A passing remark may be expected. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:25 ritoky wrote: probably shining or SL would be my first considerations. i don't have any particular case on them at this point in time, but by PoE i am down to y0su, hts, sl, and shining....if you think hts is town then i will ignore her for now. and i just think y0su is the low hanging fruit newb. so we are left with sl or shining. Yeah, idk. My mind keeps going back to shining but his filter seems okay-ish. | ||
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On May 11 2015 03:47 Superbia wrote: It's y0su. Final answer. Yay. :D GG boys. | ||
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On May 11 2015 04:59 y0su wrote: GG WP you guys we great but I don't think this is the game for me Try out town dude. Town is way more fun. :D | ||
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On May 11 2015 06:46 -Celestial- wrote: Shoutout to you for getting an excellent shot on Stutters. Didn't have him read as a priority at all but BAM. Although by the gods you were a stubborn bugger with your read on prp. Haha. Yeah I'm pretty stubborn. My last few games I had scum but just let other town lead the lynch. So yeah, increasing stubbornness on purpose. :D | ||
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On May 11 2015 10:57 Fecalfeast wrote: Fecalfeast mvp As per usual. | ||
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