On April 09 2015 04:01 justanothertownie wrote:On April 08 2015 17:01 phagga wrote:JAT, I was surprised you gave your death mask to ObiWanShinobi. You didn't trust your own red check on Vayne, you didn't trust BH's red check on Vayne (which was legit, despite BH being mafia), but you trusted the greencheck on Obi although it said in LS role PM that the checks might have been tempered with? That didn't make any sense to me.
Well, it was fun cohosting and watching this game, thanks everyone for playing
On April 08 2015 18:46 phagga wrote:On April 08 2015 17:33 Keirathi wrote:On April 08 2015 17:01 phagga wrote:
JAT, I was surprised you gave your death mask to ObiWanShinobi. You didn't trust your own red check on Vayne, you didn't trust BH's red check on Vayne (which was legit, despite BH being mafia), but you trusted the greencheck on Obi although it said in LS role PM that the checks might have been tempered with? That didn't make any sense to me.
Even now that we know VA and OWS were both scum, I would *STILL* argue that we played that situation right. The redcheck on VA meant absolutely nothing without any way to confirm the target. 0. Zip. Nada. It was basically saying "There is a scum in this game." And knowing whether marv checked VA or not completely changed the result of JATs check.
From a statistical standpoint, I would even argue that it was very, very unlikely that LS's check hit a frame target. It's hard to quantify it mathematically since we obviously aren't just dealing with randoming someone out of the player list, but in all the time that I've played mafia, I could probably count the number of times that a cop check has hit a frame target on one hand.
It's easy to sit back and say "gosh you played that badly" from the sidelines when you know the correct answer, but I don't think the way we handled that was bad at all.
I understand that JAT did not trust the red checks in a chaotic game like this. But then why does he trust a green check? And I don't mean "ok that guy is possibly town, if that check was framed we can still deal with him later"-trust, because that I can understand. But "here, take my vigi-and-protection-item"-trust? And in a PM game where everyone shares details about what they are doing with several people, mafia has an easier time framing the right person. Shinobi was under pressure from kita/jat (according to scumQT, 268) and therefore they assumed that he would be checked that night, hence the frame.
I just wanted to point it out because it was a single decision by one person that had quite an impact on the game (VE got killed instead of potentially a mafia, leading to 5-5-1 instead of 6-4-1 on D4).
I know its easier from the sidelines. There are a lot of other actions I don't understand, but I know myself that things are different if you know nothing about the game. Who knows what I would have done in that situation.
You don't seem to realize what was actually the situation. There was no redcheck on anyone. The only thing we knew is that marv redchecked someone but not who so your whole argumentation here is pretty irritating for me.
I "trusted" the green check because at that point in the game we had already almost lost and even though there were people that I thought were much townier they had abilities that I wanted them to use that night while Obi didn't. If the check on Obi was wrong then we would have probably lost to that at some point anyways so I just gambled on that one.
I knew something was up when he refused to cooperate in the end but it was too late then.
I don't remember telling Onegu to trust Obi (maybe I did and forgot), I told him that he had my items because he wanted to work with the person that had them.
And your claim bashing is completely unwarranted. That was absolutely correct and with a few more claims this game could have went very differently. Like Kita said they almost solved the game and it is not like scum got much information since noone of them was involved in the pm circles. I shared almost 0 information with anyone of the scumteam in this game. The people I shared my stuff with were ALL town.