Mafia Mini Mafia2: another miniature game of mafia - Page 5

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ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:09 GMT

#2578

On April 14 2015 12:08 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm sorry if you're town but you don't really seem that townie since N1 really.

i have less that 10 posts since n1

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:10 GMT

#2579

show me where i am not town in my posts since night 1. show me the reasons. you're going to say something like "it's in your not posting" or "you flipped on x" and the answer to that is irl and not reading, already been covered. moving on.

wait why am i talking to you, you're probably mafia.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:13 GMT

#2580

On April 14 2015 01:23 yamato77 wrote:
Solving the Game?

Ritoky

Ritoky REALLY doesn't want to lynch GB

Show nested quote +

This post in particular is strange. Why would ritoky feel the need to make a post like this when I'm one of his top town reads? Also, how does he have GB as mafia (in this post) with his first two posts being what they are (a defense of GB)? Strange stuff.

Show nested quote +

After this post he apparently sheeps me, for whatever reason, even though he seems quite unsure about himself.

Show nested quote +

And then... he sheeps me some more.

But N1 he has a couple townie-ish posts like this one:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 03:30 ritoky wrote:
oh look, people call me mafia when i am afk. guess they are bad.

On March 14 2015 09:55 ritoky wrote:
The Grand Manifesto On Why Ritoky is Confirmed Town:

1) Trollzy play - ritoky is incapable of humor and trollzy play as mafia. recently he demonstrated some ability to do it as Serial Killer, but that is very different from mafia.

Examples of ritoky being trollzy -

cell mafia 2: ritoky spams the thread with american flags and propoganda for the first 50 pages. link

titanic return of mspaint: ritoky literally does nothing the entire first and second day but antagonize people and general dickbaggery. link

mafia down under 1: such troll, much wow link

2) The angry tunnel does not exist - The #1 mafia tell ritoky has as has been indicated by many players is that as mafia ritoky gets very angry when things don't go his way and he is prone to tunneling on a player and not interacting with the rest of the game. ritoky is also completely incapable of understanding jokes and flips out when people call him scum. in this game ritoky has pushed literal 0 people, never given a damn, and is content with getting lynched. clear town.

Example of angry ritoky tunnels:

Imperial mafia:

On January 08 2015 06:54 ritoky wrote:

On January 08 2015 06:52 IAmRobik wrote:
Jesus christ. If I claim cop, will you lynch him? I'm literally about to fucking claim cop just to get that to happen because it's so painfully obvious to me

so painfully obvious that i am the cop?

oh look, all the people that you wanted to cc me have come and passed. i am the cop; you don't like my play? go fuck yourself and deal with it.

we should start discussing the lynch target for the day.

On January 08 2015 07:09 ritoky wrote:

On January 08 2015 07:04 IAmRobik wrote:
Oh yeah? Why is my claim trash. Please point to any discrepancies in my claim. Go ahead big boy. Here's your time to shine as 'the real cop"

1) i am the cop

2) you claim to be cop, but you had 0 reaction to someone HARD CLAIMING YOUR ROLE last day phase while being here and actively posting the entire time.

3) you have given no indications of being cop in your entire filter.

4) you sat here calling for others to cc and saying you would make up a cc if no one cc'd.

5) you checked a dead person n1 who was universally town read i believe even by you.

6) lol @ your checks. you call my checks bad and not solving the game, yours are on another level. they also don't mesh with your reads in the slightest. you would have checked into the likes of geript/marv/palmar/jat and such because you were heavily invested in solving those discussions and a check would have gone a long way.

you need to move the fuck on; you're not the cop now drop it.

On January 08 2015 07:28 ritoky wrote:

On January 08 2015 07:25 IAmRobik wrote:

On January 08 2015 07:24 Lazermonkey wrote:
Superbia is not here though. He hasn't posted in like forever. I don't like killing someone like that. If he keeps this up, he will probably get modkilled and what not.

Was I wrong on you? are you fucking mafia bro?
Literally 0% chance superbia and ritoky aren't mafia at this point.

100% chance i am not mafia. i am an uncc'd cop.

get your claim shit out of the thread, you already rescinded because i posted 6 very clear reasons and you folded. you in the qt coaching someone else to cc me? mad at teammates cuz they forced you to fake a cc? tough life.

3) As mafia ritoky always has very clear lynch targets and tries to push them. This one is difficult to quote in a concise manner, you will have noticed it if you cared to do the research. Essentially, as mafia I like controlling the lynch, and I like influencing the direction of the game. Having not pushed a scum read this game, sorry cannot be mafia.

4) ritoky loves him some bussing. Not only does ritoky bus teammates hard, but he pushes back even harder. In this game, if ritoky were scum with JAT he would have bussed JAT HARD. He did not, cannot be scum.

Examples:

Down Under Mafia 2: ritoky tries hard to lynch Alakaslam day 1, after he magically survives, ritoky get's pissed off and calls for a vigi shot on teammate.

On March 04 2015 08:07 ritoky wrote:
ARE YOU GUYS FUCKING SERIOUS RIGHT NOW YOU PIECES OF SHIT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHEEP MY FUCKING NEAR PERFECT SLAM READ

jesus christ. vigi shoot the shit out of slam if you exist, don't even think twice. send the action in right fucking now. 0 hesitation.

Carol of the Bells: Holyflare randomly starts scum reading ritoky for no reason, ritoky turns on the bus train

On December 11 2014 12:17 ritoky wrote:

On December 11 2014 12:06 Holyflare wrote:

On December 11 2014 11:56 ritoky wrote:

On December 11 2014 11:51 Holyflare wrote:

On December 11 2014 11:45 ritoky wrote:

On December 11 2014 11:40 Holyflare wrote:

On December 11 2014 11:13 ritoky wrote:
HF can you start getting salty so i can read you as town already? you're doing town things, but you're not angry at idiots for lynching town....why?

you're telling me I should berate people for.... listening to me!? what the shit are you even talking about

you do that a lot...lol. especially when people listen to you for bad reasons and when you got people like koshi saying they are okay with it and rsoultin saying i told you so and kels pre-emptively saying i told you so.

stop wasting my posts with insignificant bs I have like 7 left, I literally just said kelsier is very likely mafia for talking about all that crap pre-lynch and I'm not going to berate other people who have the same reads as me because that means they are likely town. I'm confused why you even have this read when you literally just expressed how I "fooled" you last game which means this salty read is clearly not a proper read at all if I can emulate it as both alignments, not to mention you said I've been doing towny things and somehow that's pushed under the rug

I also said I was extremely sick and wouldn't be here post-deadline but here I am.

you are mafia

OMGUS, not angry, content on a stagnant read lynch, 0 development on bunnies read even after she posted, pushing other people but not moving your vote...thank you for making up my mind for me. you're feigning townie things, you're mafia.

i don't see how anyone in their right mind who was reading this game could think any of those things about me, I posted about 700 times on bunnies after she returned with new info every time and you're telling me that finding other mafia while I sit on someone I think is mafia makes ME mafia

roflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

ORLY?

Here is HF's initial read on bunnies:

On December 09 2014 08:37 Holyflare wrote:

On December 09 2014 08:32 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@ Slam
@ Damdred

Didn't HF basically do just the same thing? Except more of he came into the thread with "Omgerd we have cap posts. Im town, follow me later" and then leaves.

And yet, Damdred, you have him as town for basically a shit post?

While I agree, people talking about policy lynching and lurkers seem off, he seems just an easy target for people to scum read because of that.

I'm still here and haven't made an excuse about leaving? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying in bold at all though. It's one thing to talk about policy but this is showing that first and foremost you did not read his post because:

A) he wrote about not policy lynching lirkers because it's bad

And

B) he wrote about agreeing to policy lynch lurkers

And secondly you are defending a person that "is an easy target to be scum read" when that person has done genuinely scummy things and you are brushing it off

##vote 27ninjabunnies

Enjoy your date

It is his 3rd post of the thread, from there he talks about her 2 or 3 more times while she is here. She disappears from the thread for a long time. When she comes back here are his posts:

On December 10 2014 03:08 Holyflare wrote:

On December 10 2014 03:06 Damdred wrote:
Seriously we should lynch GB who's whole d1 policy is to lynch lurkers not ignore them completely and fo after active people this is what he did in the one hour titanic mafia as scum

He attacked marv last game

On December 10 2014 02:50 Damdred wrote:
Actually on another read through even though i'm slightly suspicious of Xata i'd probably never lynch him today Ritoky is a strange struggle read for me right now i'm not sure if hes town this time

Please look into why he was angry at someone using meta reads because it looked pretty strange to me and I don't want to spend my remaining like 20 or less posts on it with 24 hours+ left

Bunnies re entry not that great cz she says she town read people for other posts and not the attack on froggy but that just means her original statement of people jumping on froggy is invalid because it's most of her town reads

On December 11 2014 03:19 Holyflare wrote:
why the fuck did everyone dismiss my oats point btw? "I dunno how to read oats he just bad" is not a good reason at all and none of the vets even bothered to look at it and instead started pushing other nonsense.

go read it here: click me!

also now that bunnies actually said her claim wasn't a claim that's just really fucking disingenuous and scummy, her kelsier points weren't very good at all and i don't like that people took her "iffy" and "people to look at" claims as backwards because iffy means you have suspicion and to look at means null but somehow you all believe it's the other way around

there's also what kita said which was very good, she's only stuck at her "people" to look at really as scum reads the entirety of the cycle and hasn't paticularly changed, even on me lol -.- BASED ON MY FIRST POST???? Not to mention her hard on for kelsier that hasn't disappeared ever an on a "reread" of the thread had absolutely no new information whatsoever and still was going on about her list post and her reads only from that list post

I dislike HF at the moment more than froggy for his entrance post. Tbh, I understand there is a cap to posts (which I am probably rapidly approacing), but you shouldn't come into the game with the mindset that you aren't going to post much because of the cap. However, I did post a post just recently saying why I like HF now, for his view on Kelsier.

literally says that i'm disliked MORE than someone with 4 posts based on my entrance post but also liked now too? kind of a waste and pretty disingenuous to still be reading me based on my first post in an entirety of filter, not to mention there's a shit town of wasted filler posts in between each of her posts like "oh does anyone else read sickluckers name differently"

people should be still on her

anyway i realised i actually have quite a few posts for up to deadline so that's cool and i'm super ill so will probably rest after it

only the bolded part is yours here, and then:

On December 11 2014 06:13 Holyflare wrote:

On December 11 2014 06:10 sicklucker wrote:
Like if it wAsint for that carol singer post I might be scared here. Like who randomly posts a video of themself carol singing it was a claim. Shes mafia back tracking.

not sure I agree with this first part but the back tracking part yeh

she's said "i might have to claim here" etc etc which eluded to having a role, posted the carol singers thing and then backtracked (still can't get over that -.-) etc etc and now it turns out she's just a disgruntled?

naaaaaaaaaaaaah bruv

That's it, the rest of your posts after her return are about pushing on other people.

you literally didn't develop this read at all after her return, you basically said "your kelsier read is crap" but now you agree with it to some extent apparently, and you didn't believe her claim/turned off by threatening a claim. that's the only development on your read since 2 hrs into the game in a 48 hour phase. that is not a HF read AT ALL. it is stagnant, it is crap, and it lynched town. you are mafia.

On December 11 2014 12:41 ritoky wrote:

On December 11 2014 12:33 Holyflare wrote:
you're literally saying right here in the thread that the fact that I updated my read with my own tidbits + what other people had said makes me mafia? ahahahaha how many posts do you think bunnies made in that time frame? 1000? how many posts do I have to spend in a post limited game explaining things that other people are saying + adding my own things on? also the stuff that I said kita mentioned I fleshed out more in that post so it was actually my original thoughts and not just the bolded which you seem to imply it is

also, her points on kelsier were crap, the fact that I'm starting to scum read him now is totally irrelevant to her case being crap at all because it purely involves her flipping town and the stuff he said previous to her flipping

I find it hard to believe you could believe anything you are typing at all.

she made 3 pages worth of posts, actually, so yes she made quite a few. I believe that's over 40 posts to respond to, so your exaggerating and laughing, but actually you're just lying and implying she didn't post a lot or a lot of substance. if she is your top scum read, 3 posts to push and develop your read seems shallow at best; especially with your standards. hell you devoted the same or more posts in the same time frame to reading vivax, kels, and xat; who you didn't push on at all. and i disagree that any of what you said regarding kita's stuff is original, it is all sheep.

further as town you are one of the largest proponents of using your vote as a means of pressuring people into giving information, and you felt perfectly fine leaving it on a town. like you're just plain mafia.

On December 11 2014 13:17 ritoky wrote:

On December 11 2014 13:08 Holyflare wrote:

On December 11 2014 12:41 ritoky wrote:

So you're saying that even though I spent 2-3 pages of filter PREVIOUSLY talking about bunnies all game the fact that I only spent a few long posts on her LATER when she had only posted like a page or less since I left with a lot of fluff in it makes me mafia? Why are you using the the latter half of the game to justify a read on me that should span the whole game? Have you even bothered to check the timestamps of when I've been around, I was sick all day and literally posted as much as I could on as many people I could in the time frame that I've been here (without trying to devolve into spammyness)

I can't believe you'd ever make this read as town. Ever. It literally shows no progression of thought process at all and is a rough job of a case that is based on falsities twisted to fit your narrative. There is no way on this planet that a town ritoky would make this case. Just like the case you made on LS using exclusively meta reads. None of these things you are saying make anyone scum yet you're pushing them so vehemently that it's making YOU look scummy instead.

I mean I think I am at the point of confirmation bias on HF now, he is mafia. Making excuses is something HF doesn't do, he is making multiple excuses here. He wasn't using his vote as a weapon at all last phase, which is the same thing he did after day 1 of hearthstone mafia. And yes, if you have a top scum read that is so firm as you won't flinch from it from 2 hrs into the phase until the end, I expect you to devote a crap load more than you did to pushing and developing it, you didn't.

As for your criticism of my LS read, you forgot the part where I backed off and started defending him.

I would make this read as town, because I am town. Something I don't think you can say.

Imperial Mafia: ritoky's scum reads include robik (town), superbia (teammate), marv (teammate), damdred (teammate), sicklucker (town)

ritoky didn't bus JAT and doesn't have firm enough scum reads to be bussing this game. Always busses as mafia, cannot be mafia.

5) The damdred factor - Damdred has a soul read on me. He subbed into a game where no one had suggested the idea I could be SK and called me SK 2 posts in. Damdred has called ritoky town, ritoky is town. Further ritoky always shoots damdred if ritoky is mafia. ALWAYS.

6) The VT claim - very simple mafia mechanics here, if you can't understand it I don't think you deserve to be playing right now. ritoky plays troll all day 1 phase, if ritoky is mafia in this situation and is faced with lynch pressure, ritoky claims PR and either outs a PR for a trade or buys a free day. Rather than do this, ritoky pre-emptively before the lynch pressure exists claims VT. This is a play that is literally the most inefficient and stupid thing ever as mafia.

7) Divergent reads - ritoky was mislynched a lot early on in his mafia career because he doesn't often give reads in a manner that coincides or agrees with the "vets" (really the circlejerk party). In the process of rolling 13 straight town games in his first 13 TL games, it became widely known that ritoky had divergent reads as town and sick day 1 reads that should be taken to the bank. A prime example is Hearthstone mafia. In games where ritoky is mafia his reads tend to not be very against the grain.

8) The last and simplest to understand point of how ritoky cannot be mafia: the notorious giant list post. Very commonly when ritoky is mafia he makes a giant list of every player in the game and gives reads on them. It is atrociously bad and easy to spot.

And that my friends is how there is literally 0 way ritoky is ever mafia this game.

tl;dr:
1) troll and jokes = town (filter examples)
2) angry tunnels when mafia, no angry tunnel this game
3) likes to have clear lynch targets as mafia, pushed 0 people this game = town
4) ritoky is #1 TL busser as mafia, did not bus JAT
5) damdred soul read, ritoky always shoots damdred ASAP
6) VT claim, would have claimed PR under pressure
7) ritoky reads counter to thread sentiment -> ritoky town
8) no giant read list post = ritoky town

you now know how it is impossible for ritoky to be mafia this game. anyone who votes on me is confirming their own idiocy.

follow the guide. i even posted this for every1 to see in guardians of the galaxy, then proceeded to do 3/4 of it.

sorry nerdz i be town.

[image loading]

D2, though, he whiffs pretty hard with these two posts:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 03:47 ritoky wrote:
could get behind a lynch on GB or eden.

eden because he seems to conclude that effort/activity = town and not-effort/activity = mafia. he is a much better player than to conclude that stupid crap as town.

gb because damdred makes his giant vote post and this response to it is trash:

On April 10 2015 12:47 GlowingBear wrote:
Damdy you make your case look like a vote count analysis when it's just narratives. A huge pile of fluff.

The effort you've put makes me wary because I know you're effortless as Mafia. The problem is that you put effort into deceiving people, making them believe you made a huge vote count analysis when you actually just post narratives.

I said once and I'll repeat: town Damdred knows me too well to call me Mafia for the reasons you called me Mafia for.

You have an idea of what my tells are. Where did you see them in this game?

no specific explanation or quotes, all general criticisms, beginnings of doubt into redoubled push, and claiming the basis is pretty much omgus. this momentary hesitation hasn't really come up again until here:

On April 11 2015 12:26 GlowingBear wrote:
Like, Damdy, I decided to take a step back and try to see you coming from a town perspective. For instance I thought that if you were Mafia, your team wouldn't try to roleblock a possible jail keeper when you were in danger of being shot by the vigi.

But I fail to see you coming as town Damdred everytime I read you. I simply can't believe in any of your posts. Your night post is, again, not a "legacy" as you try to make it look like. It fits much more of a frightened Mafia perspectice who desperately seek to look townie in order to not get shot.

I fail to see what people are seeing as townie in you.

once again general criticism, lacks specifics, all heuristics. this push is fake and gb just shit fighting for the sake of shit fighting at this point. i think he realizes it is bad too.

my town reads day 1 are god tier. never doubt them: me, yamato, koshi, damdred all town never lynch.

(emphasis mine)

Show nested quote +

How did this switch happen exactly? >____>

But his last post was this:

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His GB read was weird overall (especially D1) and I don't like his about-face on me but it's REALLY hard to overlook some of the genuine stuff in his filter and especially his IDGAF attitude on D1/N1 where he was all badass with his GIF game.

Man, fuck. I dunno anymore.

this is what you posted about me. you are calling me mafia for not concluding anything, then look at your conclusion.

nuff said

[image loading]

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:17 GMT

#2581

basically what i have determined is that people think i am mafia because:

1) they can't understand my reads day 1 - get in line, i don't understand your reads day 1
2) i am inactive - we have been over this, if i could have been replaced earlier i would have
3) my voting day 2 - i sheeped an uncc'd PR onto the case he told me when he said the vote i wanted wasn't happening. then we lynched the person i wanted to vote, after i asked the uncc'd PR why the hell we couldn't vote on him.

if you've got a point outside of these, it is also irrelevant because i am town and check out this rainbow i am shitting right now. fucking nerd mafia thinking i am low hanging fruit, i will shit and shit and shit until you are blind from color exposure.

[image loading]

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:22 GMT

#2582

actually i just read obi's filter. i think obi is super town.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:40 GMT

#2586

I actually completely mischaracterized Obi when I said he stumbled into the lynch. I just said that cuz of how the votes looked. I was real fucking wrong.

He has a really good progression on GB and you should probably never lynch Obi because this is a mafia of the year level bus if it is real.

On April 08 2015 13:54 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Tbh I really liked the fact that Palmar had the same observation as me in regards to HF's actions thus far, because it seemed like he wasn't jumping to the same conclusions as everyone else was. I don't have an issue with his GB push.

Holyflare generating discussion doesn't make him town. He does so regardless of alignment and I think that the cases he has presented thus far have been rather lame.

Obi takes notice of the interactions, and agrees GB should be pushed for more info. It eventually results in a solid enough scum read and Obi saying:

On April 09 2015 08:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
I can lynch Gb.

Even if Hf is going to be bad and call us both mafia.

He keeps asking people questions with GB at the center of it all. He always wants to know why GB moved from x to y or how people are reading GB; here's and example:

On April 09 2015 10:24 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
I'm inclined to side with Palmar when it comes to this lynch.

Rso, can you explain why you thought Gb was town?

Ultimately Obi arrives at the EXACT SAME PLACE I ARRIVED AT:

On April 09 2015 11:14 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Damdred's post on GB is pretty good.
Palmar's points on GB are pretty good.
I still think his read on Holyflare is bad and his stubborn refusal to explain it is scummy.

That's a good vote.

I could potentially coalesce with yamato on Dr. I thought that case was pretty good but I think the points on GB are better.

Pedit: Chill yam, I already voted.

He is in the same place I was right here:

On April 09 2015 08:02 ritoky wrote:
to be serious for a moment here. i am at a real impasse.

i think palmar is pretty much null. i also have this policy where i don't vote on the largest filter day1 cuz 95% of the time dude is town.

but i also remember down under 2 where palmar had this similar insta-read on me that he blew out of proportion like this and literal 0 people listened to him, i shot him at night, and carried the game....so i am really tempted...

Both of us like Palmar's case, but both of us also like the Yamato train on DR and the people voting on it. At nearly the exact same point we are feeling pretty much the exact same way, which is conflicted on preferring 1 case for content, and the other for town reads voting on it.

then we get this really interesting part where the shennanie starts to happen. I start to think about switching, obi says he may switch too and that we should switch to GB. then yamato HARD defends GB (read full quote):

On April 09 2015 12:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why not?

immediately following the vote Obi thinks he should have favored his own reads and the case he preferred this is town as fuckkkkkk. some people call me mafia when i do shit like this, but it is super town to me, it isn't in caps and showy; it is just simple regret:

On April 09 2015 13:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Should have stuck to the GB vote honestly.

after that there is a brief period where Obi is super confused because he is unsure of Palmar and HF's alignments and what that does to his GB read, but ultimately the scum read is his biggest sticking point in the game as is displayed here:

On April 11 2015 11:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Kind of waiting for yamato to catch back up. I followed up on what Vivax told me and he does tend to fall off after day 1 as mafia even if he actually starts playing. We'll see.

Otherwise, I'm not so sure atm. Maybe Gb, for lack of better ideas.

his default read is lynch GB. like if all other avenues don't pan out, he still wants to lynch GB. this is not a read you make on your partner. Obi is never with GB from this point forward.

the rest of his filter is him pushing for a GB lynch and then him manifesting some crap read on me:

On April 12 2015 02:23 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
I never said I wanted to lynch ritoky over Gb. I said that we're probably going to lynch ritoky over Gb because ritoky isn't doing anything.

What is with you and this fascination with me/ and my Gb read?

On April 12 2015 09:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
The scumteam is probably something along the lines of yamato/Eden/GlowingBear.

On April 12 2015 11:30 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Eh, I'd feel better about killing one of Eden/Gb today.

Can we get enough people online for that instead?

On April 12 2015 11:35 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
We can switch to Gb.

The push is nonstop. There is no coincidence about it. Obi is not bussing here. He is town 100% of the time.

This might mean we can PoE lynch the other 3 and win, gonna have to read a bit more.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:47 GMT

#2588

wait a fucking second too. i am thinking about how the DR lynch even began and look at my post:

On April 08 2015 13:40 ritoky wrote:
damdred most probably isn't mafia; but if he is, then he is mafia with dreadreturn.

[image loading]

so my post here is the beginnings of the lynch on DR that yamato et all go on to push. but my fucking premise is: i don't think damdred is mafia, thus i don't think DR is mafia. yet they take what i present as a linking factor and construe it into DR = mafia. no wonder i wasn't wild about this case. what the fuck was i smoking when i sided with this over palmar's case?

also this post sequence is starting to seem more relevant to me:

On April 08 2015 14:09 rsoultin wrote:

Show nested quote +

i have a reason to disagree with this that i am not going to present att

you know apart from the usual wifom regarding an argument like this to begin with xP

but i do understand your position even if i don't agree with it -shrugs-

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:47 GMT

#2589

as an aside, that gif is fucking golden.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:57 GMT

#2591

i think that means we can PoE lynch koshi/vivax/yamato and win the game.

i need to read their filters and really see who are my top 2 from that list.

never lynch: ritoky, damdred, palmar, obi.

i may be back more tonight to shit more rainbows; for now i think i would plant my 2 as yamato/vivax

vivax is like 60/40 over koshi for no specific reason that i can remember.

yamato is like 90/10 mafia. just look at his read on me. you'll see the utter failure of coherence and the hypocrisy.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 03:59 GMT

#2592

On April 14 2015 12:56 Damdred wrote:
Ritoky what do you think of Yamatos fast turn around? Also opinions on Vivax.

he is at least a complete hypocrite, and at best obvious mafia.

gonna go with obvious mafia, but will dig into his filter more later. i seem to remember him shit fighting with HF even though i felt he didn't believe in his HF read, then completely dropping off after HF died. just thinking of it, it sounds like a swag play i would make as mafia. but i will go to yamato's filter with the next bit of time i have.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 06:53 GMT

#2598

came back for a brief moment to say i don't have enough time tonight to do another filter dive.

look at yamato's reaction lol, guy is almost certainly mafia. keep trying to bury the guy shitting town rainbows son, that'll work out well for you. you're mafia, but even for that your criticism of me is terrible twice now and you're hedging.

you criticize me for not concluding enough when i made a post about the votes, when just previously your read on me had concluded in "IDK".

you criticize me here for making a town case on obi. did you not read? like 5 posts earlier i said that vote logic and my gut told me obi was mafia with you. i then went into his filter and discovered that i was utterly wrong and posted why. i don't feel i even need to look at your filter after your reaction here.

oh and "I'm going to be fucking indecisive, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF KNOWING PEOPLE'S ALIGNMENTS." what makes me scum makes you town. got it.

98/2 mafia.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 06:54 GMT

#2599

be back tomorrow morning/afternoon. would you prefer i barf the rainbows then? or more shitting of rainbows?

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 06:55 GMT

#2600

oh forgot to mention the hedging part. you do the whole "omg such strong TR day 1, so could be, but not convinced bit". way to set up the hedging quote for later after i flip town. plzzzzz

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 20:27 GMT

#2703

am back, reading thread then if there's nothing to comment on, going through a filter.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 20:38 GMT

#2706

vivax thinks i might be town and koshi made a post which basically said "wow ritoky is super town right here, let's lynch him"

more inclined to think koshi is mafia over vivax now, but w/e that's not an issue to deal with today going to dig into yamato's filter.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 21:39 GMT

#2735

Why Yamato is Mafia:

I think this case is actually quite simple to make, but I will give it some length and explanation for those who prefer that sort of thing. For those who aren't interested, I will save you the time and tell you the #1 point now: Yamato hard defends GB because DR is "mafia chainsaw defending him". He then no longer likes the DR wagon and DR flips town, yet Yamato keeps defending GB. The premise of his read had been falsified entirely, but he kept pushing GB's defense.

Now for the lengthy version:

DreadReturn

Smurf = -2 townpoints

We're not starting off well here.

Show nested quote +

On April 08 2015 04:55 DreadReturn wrote:
I think Palmer's interpretation of GB's early post is pretty weak.
Take the post that Palmer convinces himself with:

On April 07 2015 19:39 Palmar wrote:

On April 07 2015 19:33 Vivax wrote:

On April 07 2015 19:29 Palmar wrote:

On April 07 2015 19:11 Vivax wrote:
Damdred pretty hard on GB with his reasoning. Not sure if legit, he chose the worst possible explanation for GB complaining about HF vs Obi.

As if HF asking for an Obi wambulance was oh so informative lol.

The point is not whether or not what they were doing was productive. The question is whether GB was doing anything useful at all.

Define useful in a wambulance and random gif setting.

Okay clearly you're being affected by a small head syndrome.

HF and Obi were having a shitfest. I'm not arguing that. When this happens there are a few options open to a player not involved. Some of them are useful, some are useless. Here's a few options GB could have taken.

GB could have:

Ignored it and walked away
Tried to put a stop to it
Tried to change the subject to something more entertaining or useful
Joined in on the fun
Idly complained about it without trying to stop it or change the subject
Tried to glean some information from it

You'll notice that he did actually take one of the options. The problem I have is that is by fare the worst option available. By his own admission he wasn't trying to stop them, so what was he trying to achieve? He wasn't being funny, he wasn't being sociable, he wasn't trying to bring up a new subject, he wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further.

Why did GB post?

Two points here:

"HF and Obi were having a shitfest" - That's not right. They exchanged maybe 5 small one liners and a picture between themselves. It's a very mild scuffle / banter. If GB could be accused of "stopping" anything, it's mild banter.

"The problem I have is that is by far the worst option available" - Palmer isn't actually showing why GB is scum with this. How does this make him scum? He points out things that GB could have done, and then concludes that by act of omission GB must be scum. How? There's a huge logical gap there.

This type of weak reasoning could easily be applied to anyone else on those pages, and again, we are talking about day 1 early game banter here.

Palmer's analysis is weak because he is either exaggerating or misconstruing what GB said and did, and is suggesting GB is scum without actually giving a reason why he is scum.

Misses the fucking point. ANY CASE MADE at that point is going to be extremely speculative, especially as the game continues on and more information comes into the thread. This is a weak defense of GB and also an incredibly easy post to make as mafia.

What it fails to realize is this:

GB's post where he strawmans Palmar is exactly the sort of thing a mafia would do in that situation: use fallacy to dumb down the argument and cause the thread to lose clarity.

Palmar coming out of the gate firing is actually a pretty strong towntell, especially if he follows his read up later on. I have yet to see him do that but he may yet be the townie we all want him to be.

As someone who is obviously not a mafia newbie, this player SHOULD know better than to attack Palmar for this sort of thing at this stage in the game. MOST people do not have the history to know that Palmar is actually a fucking beast when he wants to be and thus will only know Trollmar. People that only know Trollmar should even townread Palmar for this sort of thing. It doesn't make any sense for someone to attack him.

Show nested quote +

Notably, his post on Palmar FAILS TO COMMENT ON HIS ALIGNMENT. He knocks me for attacking GB (as he did Palmar) yet he essentially did the same thing in GB's defense.

Why is DreadReturn so concerned with defending GB, and not with providing actual scumreads? It is a common mafia tactic to defend a scummy-looking townie that people want to lynch in an effort to appear active and to derail town's efforts at consolidating on lynches. Based on this, it isn't difficult at all to see mafia motivation in DR's posting.

Plus, he's a fucking smurf.

Here we get the basis of the wagon that was pushed onto DR. The premise is that DR is unjustly defending GB because GB was spewing scummy shit and the interactions with Palmar were crap thus he is mafia. To simplify the first point GB does scummy shit, DR defends GB for doing scummy shit, DR = mafia and GB = ? Read below for the answer boys!

GlowingBear

THE MOMENT OF TRUTH

WHAT DO I NOW THINK ABOUT GB?!?!?

I'll skip over to the posts I have yet to comment on.

Show nested quote +

Apparently he actually believes the idea that Palmar is mafia. Essentially alignment null, but worth noting.

He also soulreads HF town for the game thing, even though Obi literally pointed out that HF has done this shit as mafia before. Could just be a really bad player.

He is one of the most active players, and while I disagree with his reads and how he approaches the game, it's difficult to believe that GB is actually mafia here. He is most likely similar to Eden in that they say horrible and bad things all the time but are actually just town. So yeah.

Plus, it makes more sense if he's town given that mafia-DR is chainsaw defending him. Will switch my vote posthaste.

List Thingy For People Too Dumb To Read

Because there are many of you and I don't discriminate

ritoky
rsoul
Koshi
gb
eden
Palmar
damdred?
obi
HF
Onegu
Vivax
DreadReturn

##Unvote
##Vote: DreadReturn

GB = Town???? Wait so GB did a bunch of scummy shit, has reads you think are terrible, is shit fighting someone in the thread, and you think he is town? Why the hell is that the case? "He actually believes Palmar is mafia" Wifom. "He soulreads HF" plz. "Activity" I am the only person on these forums who actively uses D1 activity as a policy, so nope not that either.

Then we arrive at the real reason he is reading GB town here: "Plus, it makes more sense if he's town given that mafia-DR is chainsaw defending him. Will switch my vote posthaste."

He is reading GB town because he thinks DR is mafia and is chainsaw defending GB. To break this down in simple terms for you: GB does scummy shit, DR defends scummy looking GB, DR is mafia, Is DR hard defending? If not, then chainsaw town. That is the entire basis of his GB read right now.

I also want you to note, as a lesser point that is recurring over the course of the game. Yamato's top town reads are always people who almost unanimously agree with his reads. I will come back to that later if I find it more relevant than this current point.

So what happened to this GB linked to DR being mafia read:

On April 09 2015 02:14 yamato77 wrote:
We're lynching DreadReturn, bar none.

Still good.

On April 09 2015 04:38 yamato77 wrote:
No, we're still lynching DreadReturn.

Still good.

On April 09 2015 10:50 yamato77 wrote:
HF/Obi, you guys arguing isn't going to get the other one lynched, especially not today.

I'm fine with GB/DR wagons so you need to choose from those two and vote between them.

Now we're starting to get a little whacky here, it is going off the rails boys.

On April 09 2015 11:21 yamato77 wrote:
Alright we're not lynching GB, scummy fucks on that lynch

Anyone who thinks I'm town needs to vote DR

The course has been corrected.

(read full quote of following)

On April 09 2015 12:08 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

that's exactly who we shouldn't YOLO onto

Here is where I will actually begin commenting again. Yamato has now come to the conclusion he wants off the DR wagon and it is time to start the shennanie. Let's go back to the premise of his GB read: GB = slightly town because mafia DR is chainsaw defending GB. This is his read. He has now invalidated the premise of his read by deciding he doesn't believe that DR is mafia or at least not mafia enough to lynch today. Obi suggests a switch onto GB as do a couple others and Yamato shoots it down. Why? His read only works if DR is mafia. DR is not mafia in his mind anymore, so why is he even defending GB?

On April 09 2015 12:17 yamato77 wrote:
We ARE NOT lynching Palmar.

The lynch is now between DR and Vivax, since both of them are around to show their alignment.

EVERYONE follows me when I make my choice.

He is eliminating GB's name from the conversation of who is even potentially switchable. This is absolutely clear he is mafia preserving his partner by taking his name out of the conversation for potential shennanie and trying to steer it somewhere else. (this also makes him less likely mafia with vivax, but save that for another time).

Just to review this process so far if you're not seeing how utterly mafia it is: GB does scummy shit -> DR defends GB -> yamato reads DR mafia -> yamato thinks mafia DR chainsaw defending town GB -> yamato no longer thinks DR is the lynch/mafia -> yamato continues to defend GB as town.

When you falsify the entire premise of your read and then continue to push the conclusion it means that in all likelihood you have additional information that made you arrive at that conclusion. That additional information in this case is that GB and yamato are mafia together.

After that yamato shit fights with HF for the night, kills HF to swag on him most likely, then just vanishes for the majority of the following phase.

Here is the swag post:

On April 10 2015 13:09 yamato77 wrote:
YES HF IS DEAD

I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME NOW

And here is the only mention of GB in yamato's filter for the day that GB gets lynched (it is right at the start of the day):

On April 10 2015 13:15 yamato77 wrote:
Vivax is easily the best lynch.

Palmar isn't scum tho.

GB probably is.

After this he says literally nothing about GB the entire phase when GB get's lynched. His read has been altered now after hard defending him from a shennanie to "probably scum" for no justified reason. And even though he is "probably scum" he never mentions him again the entirety of day 2 and only mentions vivax as scum that should be lynched. LITERALLY 0 MENTION OF SOMEONE YOU HAVE AS PROBABLY SCUM???????? Lynch him, Lynch him with fire.

Remember them reads early on?

On April 14 2015 00:56 yamato77 wrote:
I think it's Koshi/Ritoky.

Now that neither 1 agrees with you at this point they are mafia eh? Funny how things come full circle.

Some side points to supplement this big point are:

1) He was shit fighting with HF and I sincerely don't think he believed a single word of what he was fighting with HF about. It read as fighting for the sake of fighting.

2) He has been fighting with someone all game long, whether it be HF or Vivax or someone else, he is always shit fighting someone over something minute.

3) Activity and content dropoff after HF is out of the game. I think this points to him swag killing HF. Once the person he was swagging on in thread is gone he is suddenly uninterested in the game.

Simply put, yamato was hard defending confirmed mafia for an invalid reason, he was shit fighting with HF over something he didn't seem to believe in, his activity dropped off after HF was removed from the game, he has been non-stop combative with someone, and completely ignored confirmed mafia on the day of his lynch choosing instead to talk only about vivax. Yamato is mafia, lynch him 99 times straight, and on the hundredth kick him in the nuts then lynch him.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 21:43 GMT

#2737

i don't have enough time to do that extensive of a look into koshi and vivax too right now, at best i can do a cursory scan of their filters if you guys would like that as well.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 21:57 GMT

#2743

You saw the tree and missed the forest. It isn't because you defended GB, it is because your reason for defending him was utter horseshit to start, and then it got invalidated yet you maintained your defense.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 22:05 GMT

#2748

Having glanced through Koshi's filter, a few quick comments:

I remember reading him town day 1 because he telegraphed his play in a way that seemed honest to me about how he was going to try and play more withdrawn and post less, but then ultimately he couldn't help himself and started posting a lot more. It just read to me like someone who wanted to make an honest change, but just couldn't hold themselves back. To me it was quite town indicative and until this phase I hadn't really considered him anything other than town for it.

The reasons why koshi could be mafia are basically 2-fold: he has been too wrong for town koshi and he has not really gone for the lynch targets he wants.

The been too wrong part is pretty self explanatory.

The not pushing his lynch targets. When I think of town koshi I think of him trying to lynch me in XXX even though I am the towniest miller who ever towned. Or way back when where him and I wanted to lynch chromatically for 3 straight days and yelled at the town mafia siding the entire way and were relentless. I don't see his drive and passion to get his lynches this game which could be mafia indicative. I have a real hard time coming off of my day 1 read on him though, but if he thinks I am mafia he is wrong on literally everything.

ritoky

United States6851 Posts

April 14 2015 22:10 GMT

#2751

You can't defend against my case, you can't invalidate my reads, you can't stop people from seeing the rainbows of town I am shitting; so you're trying to start a mud slinging contest with me. It is clear who is the mafia here.

Also have you played with town Koshi before? Guy has pretty good reads. So while too wrong doesn't apply to most, I hold him to a higher standard. Like I do HF.

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