EPTNewbie Student Mafia VII - Page 8
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 05:51 Trfel wrote: There are two points here. The first point you make is that I went back and forth between lynching and no-lynching. I've already explained that there is value in no-lynching, because we get time to investigate things and make the best decision. However, there is no value in no-lynching if people want to lynch, or if people don't want to use the extra time to actually work. If you took a closer look at your scumread of me, you would notice that I have said this multiple times, and rsoultin (who you are townreading) has expressed the same sentiments. Furthermore, if you look at my past games, you will see that when I (and the rest of town) is feeling tired and in a bad spot in the game, I'm willing to take a riskier lynch to speed things along (see Down Under 2, where I lynched someone who might be scum over someone who was guaranteed to be scum under the assumption that town wouldn't care enough to investigate properly such that the additional time would make a difference).
Second point, the entire mafia team worked on the analysis that I did. This I find rather interesting. Realize that I pointed out to everyone that mafia could work together to feed people analysis/reads. Yet you don't mention at all that it was me who first suggested this. Realize that my posting style is rather unique. I use capitalization, periods, and tend to be semi-formal at all times. I would definitely have to retype and revisit everything that people would tell me to say. It's possible that mafia guided me in the general reads that I should arrive at, but I definitely did the majority of the work myself. You conclude by arguing that I am scum because I want to lynch today. You realize that my vote is currently on no-lynch?
Basically, you haven't presented any reasons why I am scum. You presented a ton of fluff, a ton of clear misinterpretations. You presented a few arguments on Onegu (maybe they have some validity, but I don't care). And you've claimed that I could do everything I have done as scum. But you haven't shown anything whatsoever that actually suggests that I am scum from my own play.
To everyone else: I think that Tubesock is better than this. Look at the length of his post and compare it to the amount of substance. Contrast this with his earlier theory on TheBloodyDwarf. Tubesock here is feeling more lazy, and less interested, where Tubesock would be extremely motivated due to having caught the scum team and needing to make everyone else see his point. I wonder if Tubesock is mafia and making a token effort on a read he knows isn't true, and is less motivated because he knows that he is in trouble. [list][*][B] Town will evalutate if I'm motivated or not. Are you motivated? How's that Prplhz, Rsoultin cases coming along? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 09:39 Breshke wrote: Within the spoiler are times before this phase where tube gives a read on me. They are all town but that is not necessarily important. Look at the logic. Look at his reasons for the read. In every case it shows logic which you i think most people would agree with or at least come to an understanding of how he could see it that way. He also makes clear conclusions from every point he brings up. So, uh this is scummy? Moving onto this phase we have this post.+ Show Spoiler [Vote Analysis Post] + On April 16 2015 18:01 Tubesock wrote: I think I know what's going on. While I think I'm right, I will acknowledge I was wrong on TheBloodyDwarf. I don't always get all the scum, but I at least get two. Anyway, what I'm thinking. Soren333 was widely towned. Others too probably but I think he was the most towned. In his filter he scummed TheBloodyDwarf, Onegu, Prplhz, Slotspot, and Bourneq. Holyflare subs in. So, doubly obvious night kill. Half the Sky was also widely towned. Trfel and many others of you already agreed she was the obvious night kill. What were her big things? Big case on Onegu. Who was under suspicion? Breshke. Who was scumread? Bourneq. Plotspot. Here's Half the Sky's assessment of Onegu's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=61#1220 I also think that Onegu's vote on Breshke was a joke. He didn't say hardly anything about it (typical Onegu behavior though) and then came in calling us idiots for not being on the "scumclaim". I asked him where his vote was and then "oh "forgot" ##Vote:  lotspot. I think he was obviously looking to change his vote, that vote wasn't serious at all.Patterns.... TheBloodyDwarf Stutters695 while vigi shot, there is still information. It's not as solid or anything, but things of note. He scummed Breshke. Trfel also said Stuters695 was on his most suspicious list before Stutters died. Breshke last words about Stutters while alive were "I can't vote him now but I hope I don't regret it." then votes The Shining. I'll have individual cases on the three as well tomorrow. We have time to talk about it. First reason for cumming me in this post is that HTS had me in her suspicious section. + Show Spoiler + Under review: Breshke - D1 activity okay, D2 activity illogical, need to check town meta Tubesock - Trace all read progression. Did town him for tinfoil/GF theories, but needed to see how he drove the Dwarf lynch. Need to review why he dropped prplhz as a scumread. Shining - Super low activity from him and Ace. Meta-ed him post-lynch and didn't look good but need to check latest posts. I do not see how he finds this a reason to scum me when he himself and the other UN COUNTER CLAIMED pr are also in this list. This is not a logical conclusion that someone would make. My points are all an overall picture. I think it's silly to think that you can find scum for 1 or 2 things. I think you and Trfel are the ones who benefits the most from how the night kills were conducted and how the mlynches went down. No one else has those same patterns. I think your play overall is scum motivated or bad. I want people to reconsider you. If others disregard this then that's fine I guess. Me responding to your posts is not for your benefit. I'm not interested in trying to convince you you are mafia or town. There is value in exchanges with you, but the trap is it comes down to who is the best arguer. I want town to read this and at least consider as many things as possible to make a good decision. Im skipping the joke vote from onegu on me because I doubt that was a joke vote more likely onegu just lost interest and it is so so so unlikely if i was mafia id be mafia with onegu/trefel. Last in this post he refers to me saying I could not vote stutters yet fails to explain how this would make me scum. He doesn't even draw the conclusion that this would make me scum he simply states that it was something i said. How does this add to his case? Why did he bring it up if he then didn't further refer to it in his later case on me? This obviously was not a very important point to him so why did he point it out. You spent a lot of time bluehunting him and trying to bait him. I expanded but didn't directly link the two but it's the same point. You feel dirty for not voting Stutters because you were hoping he would out himself as blue. Which you later admitted (hope for out not feel dirty about it). I think the way you went about it is scummy. It's exactly what I put in my Bluehunting section of my case. 1.Tube actually admits in this point that what I did WAS NOT allighnment indicitive. I am an unclaimed PR. This being said if tube is town he must feel really fucking strongly about me being scum. So his first point in a case on me would not end in "yeah he could do this as town or mafia". There is no way. Nor do i think the argument that I just parked my vote on plot is necessarily true. You being an UnCC'd blue is the ONLY thing I think that you are town for. I'm am not sold on the idea that Vet would 100% would out himself here. I've said this before. I'm not going to argue it. I do believe Shinings claim.[/quote] 2.In this point tube completely ignores my explanation for why I switched my vote from theshining to prp. I am not going to explain it again but once again this is tube ignoring some of my posts so he can once again grasp at things to call me scum with. I don't believe your explanations. I quoted the post with the most in it about your explanation. I think it was the best representative. 3. No conclusions are made from this point. He asks what scum/town breshke would get from bluehunting yet doesnt answer this question himself. Obviously no one is going to respond to this question so why not explain that he thinks I was obviously bluehunting in the thread on stutters then decided that I would not kill him? I want town to think about it. I want to see who thinks about it. On April 14 2015 13:58 Breshke wrote: Stutters if you had one read you were most sure of who would it be and what do you think their alignment is? I don't need a reason. He also missed this post which could be seen as the biggest blue hunting post. I knew im the evt so if stutters was a pr he was the cop or vigi and this was me basically trying to get him to soft his checks a obvious as it might've been. I didn't think this was a bluehunting post. What would that have added to my argument? I already had several examples. How many are enough? 4? 5? 35? The point was made with the posts I used. 4.This point is absolutly wrong and shows he isn't thinking about what he is even writing. The setup could have been cop/vet in which case mafia probably try and roleblock the cop. Also there is still a possibility in vigi/vet that mafia try and claim a roleblock (after they rb the person they kill) for town cred. Tube asks what i get as town from this, it is clear that in one scenario it was that i should be wary of the eprson who claimed rb and in the other that the person who claimed RB is most likely town. It also was a way of letting the other power role know there was a vet. And I also said this is bullshit. Mafia could as easily RB a town for shits and giggles, or fakeclaim an RB. At best it's WIFOM and distracts town from actually scumhunting. The blues would eventually out themselves when they want to. Not on your timeline. 5. I think I was fairly townie in the first few days (tube apparently also thought this???) so i don't think i can be criticized for not trying that. Also my comment that it would have been better for the shining to shoot me is 100% justified because we then become basically confirmed to eachother and town doesn't go into mylo. He also asks if my actions are from the mindset of a vet yet fails to show anywhere where he thinks im not coming from the mindset of a vet. You didn't read it very well then. There's a big paragraph about it. 6.The other three mafia wouldnt have exactly caught my play as rso was the only one who pinged out the paragraph where i was trying to make it clear to the vigi not to claim. If it was anyone but shining I think it would have gone better (not because i think he is bad but because he was scum reading me) I also don't understand how my bluehinting from ebfore ties into that play but w/e. You can reference it as breadcrumbing. Anyway this has become really long so tl dr this shows a clear disconnect in tube's reads where he logically calls me town with reasons to where he starts calling me scum for far far weaker reasons which he constantly fails to draw conclusions from. Making a case on someone who is an unclaimed PR probably means one of two things. You feel really strongly that that person is mafia which tube clearly doesn't as a lot of his points end in questions not conclusions or you plan on CC'ing that person which would be absurd at this point Already addressed. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 10:32 Breshke wrote: Is it really the time for this? You want to be convincing people that your very different point of view is the right one. This simply isnt true. You have no faith in your arguments so you dont try and push them instead you pose them as questions so when you are wrong it doesn't come back to look bad on you. You don't draw conclusions on the things you bring up because you say you need to see people ask questions about it when no instead you need to be showing proper analysis to PROVE someone is mafia and to help see people if you are town but no you are not town you are scum. Also rso do you agree that if me and truffle were scum together e would have just claimed vigi and we probably could have just won. I assume thats why you think we couldnt be together. I've already addressed why I am not spoonfeeding. Every interaction I'm gaining more information. I can also figure out the intentions of the people reading my posts. You want to nitpick and show that you are not really working at reading my posts or what? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
His sole "scumhunting" is in direct response to me scumming him. Otherwise he's trying to lead town to talk about claims and lynch's and whatever but when it comes to actual investigative work he comes up with excuses. And that swap off me to Bourneq is a joke. ##Unvote ##Vote: Trfel | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 11:06 Breshke wrote: This is really really frustrating because you say me claiming vet is the only thing you could read me town for yet you have said a lot of the things i have done all game are town until you flipped on me this phase. If you want to talk about someone being destructive how is you making a team which involves an un cc'd powerrole in it helpful to town. You arn't even assessing this as an option you are pushing as the world you are living in. Who is scum because im clearly not. I can't see how you could be town here because yes you should look at all the options but is it really realistic to think im scum here? I'm getting my thoughts out as soon as possible. I thought you were town. As you did things I kept going back to my first read on you where I towned you. The waffle on TBD I really liked. You got heat for it but I thought you were town for it. But then you did this play, and I was like what and reread you. I saw little weird stuff. Then I was looking at who you voted. In JoaT I felt like we shared a brain. Definitely not this game though, not after Day 1 or so. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 11:12 Breshke wrote: Isn't bourne you're scumread? I actually think it is a good point that if bourne was town at least one mafia would be focusing their push on him today as it would be one of the easier miss lynches. He is. And I'll happily vote him later but there is far less information than if everyone goes on Bourneq. We won't be in any better situation next cycle. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 11:27 Trfel wrote: Actually hm, maybe I should argue with Tubesock. It would be fun Let's do that. I think that everyone in the thread is keeping up okay. Hello, Tubesock. How are you doing? I'm great you? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 11:50 Trfel wrote: Doing fairly well. What's it like being scum for the first time? Fantastic, you going to bus Bourneq with me? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 11:54 Trfel wrote: That would require me to be scum. I'm sorry, I'm just not as special as you. Nice try. You going to do any scumhunting yet? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 12:05 Trfel wrote: No need. Two scum down. You guys are obvious enough that I don't need to make a case. Convincing. So, you pretty proud of the chaos you created today? You mad because I ruined your play? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 12:16 Trfel wrote: What play am I supposedly making again? Remind me? You had a fine performance of trying to appear like concerned town leader. Get us to talk about everything but who scum are. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 12:23 Trfel wrote: Would you prefer that I lynched you instead? And jarjarbinks, I'd greatly prefer to lynch Tubesock over prplhz here. I could see prplhz being town without too much effort, I have much more trouble seeing Tubesock as town. Funnyiest thing is you are acting like a polite Geript or Holyflare in my last games. You're pure OMGUS. I don't get why people town you. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
Fucking Trfel is Half the Sky from that game. Breshke could be Celestial who fakeclaimed to save his life. I think Trfel actions D3 were staged. How he went let's no lynch. Oh no let's lynch. Then talked about claims. It felt dirty. Look at how Prplhz entered. He went straight to solving the game thinking it was Rsoultin. We had so much more information from dead towns and Trfel didn't take any time to evaluate the game. Prplhz came in, saw the kills and probably saw his notes or whatever and then bam POE or whatever he knew who the scum team was. Breshke could be town in this. He was just used. I have to think about it. I just think he was in it with Trfel like Geript and Sandroba. Then this claim play of his after Trfel brought it up, just looked really really bad. He's unCC'd vet so until that changes he's town. But I do not trust Trfel's "advice" or certainty of the other should CC there. While Breshke could have been innocent town, it looked like they were doing the same play to end the game for town. So, you guys really think I would as a first time mafia go after Trfel here? Thank you, that's ballsy as fuck. Like I would need a wheelchair they're big. Why not Prplhz? He's scummy as either alignment. Seems dumb to go after the biggest caser here. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 14:03 rsoultin wrote: okay, yeah i can see this lol >< i thought it strange too that he talked about you, truffle and bourneq but isn't willing to consider something else...like he was pretty stubborn in carol, but he was certain on his hf read (which was actually right lol >< just most of his others weren't) but saying y'all may be town isn't demonstrating the same certainty at all I was right on 2 of that team in Carol. I was wrong on Sick and Lightningstrike. Here I'm right on Trfel and Bourneq most likely. Breshke I've already said he's town till he's CC'd. And no I am not setting up a claim. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
For his massive synapsis posts? He MUST DO THAT! Don't town him because he makes big posts. None of you have asked anything about my case except for the 2 guys in it. Why? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 14:18 rsoultin wrote: shining and i also thought a no lynch would be best? i'd have to reread his filter or whatever, but i also talked about claiming so...why him and not me? like i kinda sorta get the breshke/truffle association if you're already scumreading truffle but how realistic do you think this is, honestly? i don't have an eden-lvl toneread here but i'm pretty damn good at reading truffle -_- You were not first. He as there immediately, knew immediately who the NK was (don't care if it was obvious that's not the point) and immediately was like No lynch! .... welllllll let's lynch! I don't think it was in the mindset of town doing it. Then he went straight into claim stuff. You were different because you were immediately voted on by Prp. Different circumstance. And you were just responding to him. You didn't look like you had an agenda. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 14:21 Breshke wrote: because 100% im mafia so if YOU WERE town mafia doesn't care because you are just wasting your time I want people to think about the big possibility our reads were wrong. I think Trfel at the very least needs to be reconsidered. He's been towned too easily. He's the snake in the grass. He thinks my case is lazy. That my push is lazy. Do you guys agree? If so why? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On April 17 2015 14:29 Trfel wrote: Yes, I do think you would do this. I'm not terribly hard to pressure. And the argument of "he wouldn't go after a high profile player, he's town" has been used this game already. That doesn't work after the first time. I have the right to be lazy. I've caught a scum, almost guaranteed (Bourneq). There is literally no other pressure to lynch him here, which means that scum is not interested in him dying (which if Bourneq is town, would result in an easy victory). Any other lynch is prematurely advancing the schedule, taking a more risky lynch before it's necessary. But especially without any scum meta to compare to, I doubt much will change with regards to reading Tubesock. See you guys tomorrow, I'll be relaxing. Prplhz found him Day 1. You're just bussing. | ||
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