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On April 12 2015 10:57 rsoultin wrote:
nvm...caught up
meh, can see why ppl got cold feet
hope you keep feeling better oneg! <3 now...
-sits on onegu's head-
i find it hard to believe youve read my filter closely if you really think its mostly questions and metareads xP
stutters could be scum; knowing his alignment for sure would help explain the vote
or he could have just been at work? i think he said he was
anyway im here now if anyone wants to talk, but im driving back to sa tomorrow so prob wont be on for the rest of the night phase after tonight
If I'm town, what do I gain from the vote like that? If I'm scum what do I gain?
Assume I'm town for a second(you'll see why d2). Prpl tries to switch the wagon onto me. From a scum perspective: He mislynches me (I get harder to mislynch as the game goes on generally) and leaves him with 1/2 (depending on Dwarf's alignment) easy-ish mislynches at the cost of looking slightly worse for my mislynch.
Do you think that would be a risk he'd take as scum from playing scum with him?
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On April 12 2015 15:50 jarjarbinks wrote:
I'm not seeing the case against stutters. Out of his top 3 scum targets (bresh, prp, and plot), plot was gaining traction and he had to leave. It wouldn't make sense to place a vote on the other two at the time.
I thought it was interesting that he said he was very liable to bus as a mafia teammate(and would bus a bad mafia teammate), and then hts votes plot BECAUSE she thought he wouldn't bus. Did she just miss his quote? It seemed like she was analyzing him pretty hard at the time to decide her vote. Crucial time to miss something like that in a guy with a small filter.
I said the thing about bussing way after the lynch. I'm pretty sure I said it in response to that post after the flip when I came back actually.
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On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now
Don't really have time to play right now, but what games and what did you see that changed your mind?
I'm off all day tomorrow, so I'll be here then.
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On April 13 2015 12:55 prplhz wrote:
uh i'm not going to say what changed my mind right now
I'm aware of my meta, but it's a drastic change, even if you don't have me as town. Give me just one thing you saw. Going off of memory, I can see a few reasons pro-town and pro-scum justifications from my play so far. I want to see where you're coming from.
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On April 14 2015 01:14 Trfel wrote:
Onegu
Onegu's opening is just terrible. I'm pretty sure that he is scum here. Plotspot was obviously a new player trying to figure out how to play the game, if anything I would read plotspot's opening posts as slightly towny. And Onegu was so quick to jump on scumreading him.
I'd definitely prefer to lynch Onegu than this weird lynch on Half the Sky for just changing her vote.
One scum down, two to go.
On April 14 2015 01:41 Trfel wrote:
Well, so far, I'm townreading all of the dead people, and I'm townreading Onegu......
I know, I'm so helpful. And it also appears that I have no ability whatsoever to read people fairly when I already know their alignment. Was hoping that would have changed....
What changed in 27 minutes?
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Anyway, onto yesterday's lynch.
Prpl, who first suggested to lynch me: I've played twice with him from memory and his scum/town play is drastically different.
Still a bunch of one-liners, but if you look at a town Prpl game when he's trying to lead a lynch, he provides reasoning, even if its lumped in between 10 one-liners. Scum Prpl tries to avoid being accountable by providing loose reads which barely justify his vote enough to not be lynched himself.
In this game, up until the Plot lynch started gaining traction, he's offered basically nothing except asking questions (not to say questions aren't good, but they must lead somewhere eventually). Then he brings up Plot trying to get confirmation for switching off of a joke vote as his reason for wanting to lynch him + Show Spoiler [plot lynch] +On April 11 2015 19:19 prplhz wrote:like his 100% read on me and then Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 07:53 plotspot wrote:
Really now, you must be psychic to infer some sort of alignment from such a post. ROFL. You might as well be mafia seeing an opportunity to jump on him. haha Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 08:12 plotspot wrote:
I'm considering changing my vote to Onegu. He's playing like a fucktard. But of course I'm still not sure whether it's his strategy or him inadvertently not "getting" some of the things. looks like feelers so he can change his vote from the alphabetical thing. why isn't he just changing his vote away from the alphabetical vote? it doesn't mean shit so if he thinks someone is mafia then why not vote him instead of prodding the thread like this?
Once he gets second thoughts about the Plot lynch he asked what our views were about how plot was defending himself.
I answer him, which he ignores and HtS says she sees scum behavior in him and then he decides he doesn't want to lynch Plot. He's shirking the responsibility of the lynch in favor of trying to lynch someone he has had no interaction with (except ignoring my point) with the goal of lynching me for it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post".
Which is funny considering if he had responded and shown why I was wrong, he probably could have actually convinced more people to lynch me, but he's just skating by to avoid attention.
After the mislynch + Show Spoiler +On April 13 2015 04:00 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 03:31 Tubesock wrote:On April 12 2015 05:13 prplhz wrote:
it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post".
some people are all "he's martyring, lynch him!" but that's just bad play. dunno if it's how stutters play and i'm not going to check his database entry for any fervent anti-martyrism. Can you explain the bolded. I'm not seeing any martyism from Stutters. For the thread: What does Scum!Prplhz have to gain from shenanying off a town? Or starting a shenany? Even a useless one? no i'm not saying stutters is martyring. i'm saying he is voting for plotspot for martyring and that's bad play. i think i explained why somewhere. i'm saying "voting for martyrs because they martyr is bad play. maybe stutters is just a player who votes for people who martyrs even though voting for people who martyr is a bad thing to do. i could go into his database entry and check out if stutters is a player who votes for martyrs for martyring but i'm not going to." On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now
He again shifts his suspicion off of his lynch target for no apparent reason. He's basically done nothing consistently, hiding it behind empty accusations and frequent posting.
The only reason I'm not 100% on voting him this instant is because I still want an answer to On April 13 2015 13:12 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 12:55 prplhz wrote:
uh i'm not going to say what changed my mind right now I'm aware of my meta, but it's a drastic change, even if you don't have me as town. Give me just one thing you saw. Going off of memory, I can see a few reasons pro-town and pro-scum justifications from my play so far. I want to see where you're coming from.
and I'm not 100% on why Prpl would do that switch as scum to begin with.
More to come after I go to lunch.
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On April 14 2015 03:28 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 02:30 Stutters695 wrote:Anyway, onto yesterday's lynch. Prpl, who first suggested to lynch me: I've played twice with him from memory and his scum/town play is drastically different. Still a bunch of one-liners, but if you look at a town Prpl game when he's trying to lead a lynch, he provides reasoning, even if its lumped in between 10 one-liners. Scum Prpl tries to avoid being accountable by providing loose reads which barely justify his vote enough to not be lynched himself. In this game, up until the Plot lynch started gaining traction, he's offered basically nothing except asking questions (not to say questions aren't good, but they must lead somewhere eventually). Then he brings up Plot trying to get confirmation for switching off of a joke vote as his reason for wanting to lynch him + Show Spoiler [plot lynch] +On April 11 2015 19:19 prplhz wrote:like his 100% read on me and then Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 07:53 plotspot wrote:
Really now, you must be psychic to infer some sort of alignment from such a post. ROFL. You might as well be mafia seeing an opportunity to jump on him. haha Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 08:12 plotspot wrote:
I'm considering changing my vote to Onegu. He's playing like a fucktard. But of course I'm still not sure whether it's his strategy or him inadvertently not "getting" some of the things. looks like feelers so he can change his vote from the alphabetical thing. why isn't he just changing his vote away from the alphabetical vote? it doesn't mean shit so if he thinks someone is mafia then why not vote him instead of prodding the thread like this? Once he gets second thoughts about the Plot lynch he asked what our views were about how plot was defending himself. I answer him, which he ignores and HtS says she sees scum behavior in him and then he decides he doesn't want to lynch Plot. He's shirking the responsibility of the lynch in favor of trying to lynch someone he has had no interaction with (except ignoring my point) with the goal of lynching me for it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post". Which is funny considering if he had responded and shown why I was wrong, he probably could have actually convinced more people to lynch me, but he's just skating by to avoid attention. After the mislynch + Show Spoiler +On April 13 2015 04:00 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 03:31 Tubesock wrote:On April 12 2015 05:13 prplhz wrote:
it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post".
some people are all "he's martyring, lynch him!" but that's just bad play. dunno if it's how stutters play and i'm not going to check his database entry for any fervent anti-martyrism. Can you explain the bolded. I'm not seeing any martyism from Stutters. For the thread: What does Scum!Prplhz have to gain from shenanying off a town? Or starting a shenany? Even a useless one? no i'm not saying stutters is martyring. i'm saying he is voting for plotspot for martyring and that's bad play. i think i explained why somewhere. i'm saying "voting for martyrs because they martyr is bad play. maybe stutters is just a player who votes for people who martyrs even though voting for people who martyr is a bad thing to do. i could go into his database entry and check out if stutters is a player who votes for martyrs for martyring but i'm not going to." On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now He again shifts his suspicion off of his lynch target for no apparent reason. He's basically done nothing consistently, hiding it behind empty accusations and frequent posting. The only reason I'm not 100% on voting him this instant is because I still want an answer to On April 13 2015 13:12 Stutters695 wrote:On April 13 2015 12:55 prplhz wrote:
uh i'm not going to say what changed my mind right now I'm aware of my meta, but it's a drastic change, even if you don't have me as town. Give me just one thing you saw. Going off of memory, I can see a few reasons pro-town and pro-scum justifications from my play so far. I want to see where you're coming from. and I'm not 100% on why Prpl would do that switch as scum to begin with. More to come after I go to lunch. like, you need to prove you're town way more than i do so i'm not talking about meta points until you do some more.
What about the non meta points?
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On April 14 2015 01:58 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 01:52 Stutters695 wrote:On April 14 2015 01:14 Trfel wrote:
Onegu
Onegu's opening is just terrible. I'm pretty sure that he is scum here. Plotspot was obviously a new player trying to figure out how to play the game, if anything I would read plotspot's opening posts as slightly towny. And Onegu was so quick to jump on scumreading him.
I'd definitely prefer to lynch Onegu than this weird lynch on Half the Sky for just changing her vote.
One scum down, two to go. On April 14 2015 01:41 Trfel wrote:
Well, so far, I'm townreading all of the dead people, and I'm townreading Onegu......
I know, I'm so helpful. And it also appears that I have no ability whatsoever to read people fairly when I already know their alignment. Was hoping that would have changed.... What changed in 27 minutes? How serious I was feeling changed? Anyway, apparently you've been missing in action. It seems that I'm drawing everyone back to the thread. And now I really must eat food, so I will be back later.
Bump. Still want an answer.
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I would disagree with that being an answer.
Anyways, until I think of a better way to word that what do you think about prpl?
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On April 14 2015 05:09 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:03 Stutters695 wrote:
I would disagree with that being an answer.
Anyways, until I think of a better way to word that what do you think about prpl? Are you being serious about asking Trfel why he changed his "scum read" on his slot he replaced into? I'm missing something.
Reactions dawg. Just want to see what he'd say. Honestly, I've seen people make similar mistakes replacing in (I almost wrote a case on myself in WLIIA way back in the day after replacing in).
Trfel: pg14 was basically a decade ago, do you disagree with my assessment? What do you make of HtS's case on you?
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On April 14 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 05:17 Stutters695 wrote:On April 14 2015 05:09 Tubesock wrote:On April 14 2015 05:03 Stutters695 wrote:
I would disagree with that being an answer.
Anyways, until I think of a better way to word that what do you think about prpl? Are you being serious about asking Trfel why he changed his "scum read" on his slot he replaced into? I'm missing something. Reactions dawg. Just want to see what he'd say. Honestly, I've seen people make similar mistakes replacing in (I almost wrote a case on myself in WLIIA way back in the day after replacing in). Trfel: pg14 was basically a decade ago, do you disagree with my assessment? What do you make of HtS's case on you? lol, this push is based on what, a joke scumclaim and a case against truffle's slot based on nothing truffle has done? xP you'd do better to provide the evidence supporting your metaread on prp
Meta reads aren't as simple as "scum prpl posts xyz as scum but only xy as town" unless the person is bad and prpl isn't that bad.
Take roulette as an example: pages and pages of one liners and occasionally a random vote. However, he'll drop posts like his case (another on p1 and another on p2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/414632-roulette-mini-mafia?user=prplhz&page=4. That is not existent here. It's still early, so that enough isn't alone, but read the questions he asks compared to here. His questions show a clear lines of thought about the subject of his posts.
This occurs in Storm 2 as well. Less so on the scum hunting side but you can tell who he thinks is town, how he's leaning on certain people (not wanting to lynch robik for example).
Compare that to here: the specifics are lacking. He corrects Onegu, points out he's not paying attention and asks if he'll put effort into the game. Nothing about why he's scum (such as misrepresenting plot to try and lynch him, just basic matter of fact info.
When he wants people to vote Bourneq, again it's for not paying attention/posting unless prodded. Nothing that actually establishes why scum Bourn would do that until later and then it's just "scum don't want to contribute." Which would be cool, except as soon as Bourneq starts posting more he drops it despite not really pushing for his lynch. Then HtS (off of one post)whom he drops for Plot and throws together a good case on him. He actually asks about him, asks for our input on what we think of Plot, I answer which he ignores and then pushes me on for basically what he pushed Bourneq for. Then drops me for meta reasons, but won't elaborate at all.
In Titanic it's more of the same. He "has a hard time" establishing actual scum reads, while in his town games he's much more sure of himself.
Phone posting so I can pull up specifics later, but if you read just his filter in those games you'll see what I mean.
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On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now
And your refusal to interact with me. You sure aren't doing much if you suspect me.
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On April 14 2015 08:46 jarjarbinks wrote:
So I'm trying to figure out stutters because most people are scumming him and I wasn't. I can take two conclusion from what he's done so far.
1. He is scum and not really trying. This is evident in his first read on bresh. His posting is rather small for someone who has played and knows the game. He seems to focus on himself and people talking to him over others His largest case is on prp, the guy who got the train started for him D1.
2. He is town and is going for a low content/high quality kind of game. Is probing and looking for reactions. His first read on Bresh didn't have much right? He was probably looking for a reaction there and didn't like the reaction, which is evident in his later post on him (i'll quote after this). He sets a trap for Trf. He doesn't really defend himself (I guess he's confident he won't get lynched?) but instead focuses on figuring people out in this game.
The more I read his filter, the more I believe in #2.
IF THIS IS TRUE, than I'm much more suspicious of the people on his train: tube, hts , and prp. With his low content posts, he appears to be an easy target. You could call it a trap? And guess what? All three were on my lists I drew up earlier. hts and prp drew red flags from me earlier. This also helps make the NK make more sense.
Looks like I know where to look to find some scum lol
I legit have no idea, are you JarJarDinks as well from Basterd Mini?
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On April 14 2015 08:59 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 08:53 Stutters695 wrote:On April 13 2015 09:24 prplhz wrote:
reading some of strutters other games he can live for now And your refusal to interact with me. You sure aren't doing much if you suspect me. i am giving you pause to actually play the game. if you're town you had a 1 page lazy disinterested filter on d1. come d2 i say "i might not be right so i'll give you pause to actually start playing". there's nothing to interact with you about as i don't believe you've actually done anything yet. the interaction you want is "tell me the things you saw in my filter that you expect me to do if i'm scum and the things you expect me to do if i'm town" and that's not happening for obvious reasons.
Well I wanted to see if you'd say it, but I'm incredibly disinterested day 1 basically all the time. Since you claimed to read my meta, that should have been obvious (exceptions being Basterd [excited for first time scum] and Les Mis[i think, there was one I was actively trying to change it]).
The game moves too fast and there isn't nearly enough for me to go on.
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On April 14 2015 09:19 prplhz wrote:
i was taking great offense but i'll pause for a moment to answer your question.
it's not about giving him tons of slack, it's about him doing weird shit for no reason. seriously no player in their first game as scum thinks it's a super good idea to say stuff like "i'm mysterious" and "stop digging into that" three times. he's just screaming for attention like that. look at bourneq who is wholly unforgettable and barely doing anything. that's super scummy but people are still like "lets lynch newbies who act weird" even after the plot lynch. the dwarf lynch is as bad as the plot lynch was.
But you aren't posting "hey, this guy is trying to be unforgettable, he must be scum."
You're saying, "hey this guy is forgettable, he must be scum" and you've played more than enough games to realize that isn't the case for everyone. Unless you think Bourneq, Soren and I were the scum team and just didn't give a shit, it comes off as you just pushing the disinterested people because they're disinterested.
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Ebwop: kinda drunk, meant to add this
If you've read my previous scum games, it would be obvious that I try to control the thread a bit at least. Although in retrospect, I need to check the scum qts from your games because I straight up forgot. I have a tunneling problem sometimes. Please comment on my case so I can drop this if you're town.
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On April 14 2015 09:56 Trfel wrote:
I must say, there are a ton of hilarious things in this thread ^^
I should play in newbie games more often!
Who do you want to lynch? Go!
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On April 14 2015 09:59 Half the Sky wrote:
Stutters, you still in thread? I wanted to ask you two key questions regarding your actions D1.
D1, you expressed that Breshke was mafia. You considered prplhz and plotspot for lynch. You pushed Breshke in two posts, and I know you were AFK a bit from the thread D1, but ultimately voted plotspot after a load of people had done so.
I have two questions for you.
1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was scumclaiming and not martyring? I understand some vets are familiar with martyring happening and prp has brought it up himself.
2 I know someone else queried you on it but I'm not seeing the response in your filter - had your thoughts on Breshke changed since D1? And if you were sure of Breshke, why didn't you push him further D1?
1. I wasn't. D1 is a bitch and I hate it. Once it was obvious Bresh/Prpl weren't options, I wanted to see one of the newbies hang because if one of them didn't, we'd be in the same predicament d2 and had basically wasted d1. I've played enough games where people martyr/give up as scum once caught early that I really don't know what to think anymore.
2. I've learned pushing lynches that won't happen just distracts town. Especially on d1 when we can afford a mislynch. I'd rather have a mislynch on someone I can't read, but I think is scum than someone I don't think is scum because I split a wagon, when d1 is a crapshoot anyway.
They have changed due to his n1 posts, but I still want to see more out of him to decide.
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On April 14 2015 10:31 Breshke wrote:
Stutters have you seen the reason why I am voting you?
Sure have. WIFOM son. Am I blue, am I VT? Who knows, but my posting should make it pretty obvious I'm town.
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EPT
