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You joke, but I think there may be some hefty analysis after this particular game.
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Ugh I was considering /outing too because my schedule just got shit tons worse.
I'll stick it out.
For you Artanis cuz u my bbygrl
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On February 24 2015 05:36 Node wrote:Ohai :> Been spending my time trying to play games fast. Figured I'd stop by, see if I can't grease up ye olde scumdar. Funny how the newbie game gets a handful of serious old-timers. (I see you, old man Wave)
I miss you buddeh.
How's dat nunu
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On February 24 2015 06:08 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 05:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Oh trust me, you haven't seen ANYTHING yet. How much more of the depths of it are we going to learn this game? :p
Should play voice mafia and maybe you'll find out.
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Not in a good mood.
Yamato you're town right?
Can we run a train on scum, hopefully after I make an awesome read?
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On February 24 2015 10:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:10 Eden1892 wrote:On February 24 2015 10:06 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 10:02 Eden1892 wrote:On February 24 2015 09:31 Probulous wrote:Precisely  Just getting the ball rolling. You still haven't answered my question, what does it mean to you? To me it means nothing, hence I asked the question. As for random lynch, over my dead body. We are statistically more likely to get town and more importantly it provides cover for scum to avoid scumhunting in Day 1. No point in wasting a whole day waiting for a lynch that gives us no information. [citation needed] On February 24 2015 09:48 Half the Sky wrote:
So which cell are you Artanis?
Also how dirty is your mind going to get this game? Do I want to know? yes let's get dirty this game  ROFL, what I meant was with 10 townies and 3 mafia, there is a much higher chance on lynching town if the lynch is completely randomised. Eden, what makes you "bad" at this game? Oh. That's a lot more boring, I was hoping there were some kind of stats available somewhere because I love stats. But yeah, a random lynch hits town more likely than mafia. Most d1 lynches tend to. I'm not worried too much about that. + Show Spoiler +
Anyway I'm not actually bad at this game, I just said that so that when the mafia scroll down and read the thread they'll see it and not nightkill me. They probably won't open this spoiler box because they're lazy/not reading so I can safely tell you this here.
There's a bunch of fun statistics in the TL Database. + Show Spoiler +Mafia players are lynched 26.2% of the time on day one.
Random lynching would result in a mafia lynch 25.2% of the time.
Mafia players are lynched only 16.9% of the time in newbie games on day one, so excluding these games brings the overall day one lynch percentage up to 28.5%!
48% of players playing in a newbie game have returned to play in at least 1 other game.
There have been 1200 distinct mafia players.
VE has been lynched 24 times.
HAHA man it's shit like this that make me wonder why I ever left.
I'm really hoping I have fun this game.
In other news I wanna make a joke about how Probs is probs something but I keep waffling.
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On February 24 2015 11:40 Damdred wrote:
Hts is scum btw I think.
Tormented might of made a mistake. Hts is scum rhough
Might have.
##vote: damdred
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On February 24 2015 10:40 _Tormented_ wrote:
@yamato what makes you support Artanis for mayor? Especially without hearing anyone else even lobby for it yet.
This one is curious.
It's typical new player fare.
He's pretty agreeable and gives the public exactly what they want---this works from both mafia and town perspectives for obvs reasons. I'm historically awful at reading new players and this is no exception tbh.
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On February 24 2015 12:31 Eden1892 wrote:
all hail gruul
down with abzan
Why haven't you watched my stream and helped me draft?
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Wait, I don't get it.
Did you insult me somewhere in the giant block?
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There is nothing in between these two posts to warrant him backing off.
On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts
On February 24 2015 11:48 Damdred wrote:
Cool stuff wave.
Anyway I'll give Hts some more time but its a gut read on her so far.
That's what he thinks of us
Posturing of the worst and most obvious kind and I'm kinda sad I didn't pick up on it.
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Wow and I deleted the whole rest of my post.
Anyway it was something along the lines of there being one point in the Probulous wall I liked and that would be the last one.
Damdred being all super confident about hts being scum throughout the entirety of his posting thus far and then immediately backing off with nothing to warrant it.
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I'm personally never a fan of "Look at me and all the sekrets I've got and look at how interesting I am but I don't want to tell you LOOK AT ME'
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k your turn yammy
who ya got
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On February 24 2015 13:13 Damdred wrote:
Actually don't have any secrets just don't have enough information to release a solid case, premature cases are interesting but most of the time get ignored even if they were decent at the time.
You realize just because you dropped a solid case once doesn't mean you need to do it every time, nor does it mean you'll come up with an effective (read: convincing, not right) case every time. For example I was more convinced by Probsably's last point than anything he wrote before it, despite how much effort he did or didn't put in.
You said you're 'scumming' someone based off of things people have said. I'm assuming that means you have an unrevealed scumread, unless you'd care to correct me.
Then you go ahead and completely retract it.
I'm thinking you need to come clean one way or the other and just say exactly what it is you mean because right now I have no idea wtf you are doing and I don't think that's a good thing.
Also what makes Proobs the most interesting man in the world?
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On February 24 2015 15:00 Snarfs wrote:I was suspicious of Damdred for not really commenting on Tormented's filter. However, he said he was going to leave about two hours ago now to go to bed. Then stayed. Seems pretty towny to me. I added some more on Damdred at the bottom of this post as I was going through filters. In regards to Tormented, I think he's more likely mafia than some others who have been posting. His posts don't show any real drive to find mafia. I would really like more from Damdred on Tormented this game as they've played together in the past. Same goes for The Shining. Who now that I mention looks pretty terrible having shown up at the beginning of the game and just disappeared when no one acknowledged him. I would lynch The Shining pretty happily for that. sicklucker has put in a poor performance so far as well, really don't like people showing up with a few comments then disappearing without commenting on the game at all, gets my radar going, he's up there with Shining. Also, HtS... Hmm not sure. She's at least putting thoughts on who is mafia in the thread with some of her reasoning. Seemingly unprovoked as well (top of page 10 link). I do see what Damdred is saying about what I like to call "wishy washy" reads. They lack substance. Probulous, the difficulty I have with your case is that we haven't had enough time to see whether Damdred's follow up on HtS exists or not. I think it's great that your pointing out his viewpoints and it's something we need to keep aware of but I can't tell from those posts whether he has dropped his read on HtS or Eden. But I think he's been towny as mentioned above. I look forward to seeing if his comments are as insightful as he claims they will be.
Not following the bolded.
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On February 24 2015 15:12 Snarfs wrote:
He said he was going to bed. If he was mafia, there wasn't any reason for Damdred to check back 20 minutes after he said that, no one was suspicious of him.
What the fuck?
Only Prob's monster post, but no, nobody was suspicious lol
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Am I included it those who 'liked the fact that he asked some questions?' Because I don't think I said anything of the sort. I believe my words were:
On February 24 2015 12:04 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:40 _Tormented_ wrote:
@yamato what makes you support Artanis for mayor? Especially without hearing anyone else even lobby for it yet. This one is curious. It's typical new player fare. He's pretty agreeable and gives the public exactly what they want---this works from both mafia and town perspectives for obvs reasons. I'm historically awful at reading new players and this is no exception tbh.
Now I think there's maybe something to it, but
a) all you're doing is basically taking the 'he must be mafia' side of the inconspicuous newbie argument
b) I'm not sure why you think it has more merit than Prob's point that I've latched onto. I don't really see a towny mindset behind Damdred's retraction.
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On February 24 2015 15:16 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 24 2015 15:12 Snarfs wrote:
He said he was going to bed. If he was mafia, there wasn't any reason for Damdred to check back 20 minutes after he said that, no one was suspicious of him. What the fuck? Only Prob's monster post, but no, nobody was suspicious lol That was after.
That was after what?
He said he was going to bed, presumably left, Probs posted a case, Damdred came back to talk about it.
I'm not following why either mafia or town doesn't come back just to check for stuff.
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On February 24 2015 15:20 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 15:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Am I included it those who 'liked the fact that he asked some questions?' Because I don't think I said anything of the sort. I believe my words were: On February 24 2015 12:04 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 24 2015 10:40 _Tormented_ wrote:
@yamato what makes you support Artanis for mayor? Especially without hearing anyone else even lobby for it yet. This one is curious. It's typical new player fare. He's pretty agreeable and gives the public exactly what they want---this works from both mafia and town perspectives for obvs reasons. I'm historically awful at reading new players and this is no exception tbh. Now I think there's maybe something to it, but a) all you're doing is basically taking the 'he must be mafia' side of the inconspicuous newbie argument b) I'm not sure why you think it has more merit than Prob's point that I've latched onto. I don't really see a towny mindset behind Damdred's retraction. I thought you were describing him as a curious person, not saying that he perplexes you in some way. Anyway, I didn't say he had to be mafia, I'm just saying that it is textbook earlygame mafia play. He's not a complete noob, either.
And such is often the problem I have with newer players (doesn't have to be a complete noob for this to apply). Textbook mafia play often also looks like textbook 'I'm not sure what else to do here' noob play.
I'm far less convinced by this than I am with Damdred's play right now. Damdred is far better than he has played thus far, and his excuses are a little weak.
What exactly do you find to be 'ehhhhhhhhhh?'
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On February 24 2015 15:23 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 15:18 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 24 2015 15:16 Snarfs wrote:On February 24 2015 15:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 24 2015 15:12 Snarfs wrote:
He said he was going to bed. If he was mafia, there wasn't any reason for Damdred to check back 20 minutes after he said that, no one was suspicious of him. What the fuck? Only Prob's monster post, but no, nobody was suspicious lol That was after. That was after what? He said he was going to bed, presumably left, Probs posted a case, Damdred came back to talk about it. I'm not following why either mafia or town doesn't come back just to check for stuff. Ah okay. My reasoning that it was more likely town to come back and check than mafia is that mafia like excuses to not put their reads in the thread.
Mafia also don't necessarily like seeing their names up in lights and perhaps would sleep better if they could quash suspicion rather than letting a case blow up overnight. Damdred certainly does appear to put great faith in cases in general, not that I find the aforementioned particularly alignment-indicative.
On February 24 2015 15:24 Damdred wrote:
Honestly I'm not sure why you keep saying its a retraction when I was getting no real pressure over my Hts read nor did I say I'm not scum reading them when in fact I said. I'd rather Hts so more stuff basically, my case is pretty weak admittidly at this point but in no way have I retracted a scum read. So stop misrepresenting what I did wave.
Secondly, tormented came here from where I played previously the acclemation even to a newb game is difficult our day ones were generally filled with wayward voting and lack of any information so I'm trying to give him some time to find the pacing and develop things outside the first few hours.
Damdred, whether you like it or not, it's a retraction.
Mafia story: You throw a whole bunch of shit, it doesn't stick, you realize your persistence in hts being scum doesn't look particularly good (note: people don't have to point this out for you to realize this---if other people realized it after, you very easily could have pre-emptively), your moderate yourself a little bit and decide to 'give hts a chance' out of nowhere.
Town story: .....??? I don't see what exactly makes you completely switch gears like that unprovoked without something pinging in your head and making you go 'oh shit maybe I'd better not' which isn't a towny thing to think.
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How do you feel about his case? Did it improve on yours at all? Do you feel. More convinced now?
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On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things.
Oh and I meant to comment on this last night:
There can be town motivation in not getting tunneled but where exactly was that transition? Where did it strike you that you shouldn't be tunneling? I'm still not. Following where/why super confident town damdred just stops and says 'Oh wait, maybe he's isn't super scum like I've been saying all game.'
Also yamato as far as peacing out you did the same as I was talking to you last night.
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On February 25 2015 03:18 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 03:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
How do you feel about his case? Did it improve on yours at all? Do you feel. More convinced now? Not very convincing, and he doesn't stick around to legitimize it either. ehhhhhhhh
This is the second time you just 'ehhhhh' something.
I am disappoint, sir, we are supposed to be blasting the scum out of their hidey-holes.
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On February 25 2015 03:25 Damdred wrote:
I never said that Hts wasn't super scum just that Hts needed to do more. You are totally misrepresenting it. If I went shops not scum at that point its one thing, but me screaming scum in the thread what 5 hours into the game with almost no real information besides a few wonky posts and meta understanding of people doesn't help the thread and helps bury hood conversation
If he's super scum and youre super confident of it, what more does he need to do? Isn't your job to be convincing us of it if you're that confident? You're being completely contradictory in your words and actions here.
Furthermore now you're downplaying your own scumread.
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On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote:
Was driving oj these roads of mine.
Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum.
Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information.
THE WHY WERE YOU SO OCNFIDENT OF HIS SCUMMINESS TO BEGIN WITH
Am I the only one seeing this?
Somebody please let me know.
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On February 25 2015 04:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Wave you've mentioned that you missed Node, so I presume you're familiar with him. What do you make of his play so far?
I'm not, we used to play LoL a lot together. I think we may have been in one game together but I can't remember.
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Yeah chances are damdred isn't scum.
If I were to continue playing as I normally would I'd probably tunnel him uselessly till days end but I'm sure there's a good reason people haven't picked up on what I found to be marginally significant.
I'll be looking elsewhere when I get the chance. I still want you to wow me with something though, damdred. I want to know why I lost one of those 2014 awards to you.
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Artanis I don't know if I'll be able to comment on anything of yours until after my DND session later tonight (which will be streamed /shamelessplug)
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You had to post 6 times For that?
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On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it
Oh you are a cutie.
##unvote
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On February 25 2015 07:50 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:40 _Tormented_ wrote:On February 25 2015 07:33 yamato77 wrote:
I think ksc might be mafia.
I remember him being obstinate as town but not altogether unwilling to participate. He was much more forthcoming in the game I played with him.
I still kinda think tormented is town but it's more up in the air with Artanis being on the lynch as well and the question mark I have for him. On February 25 2015 07:34 yamato77 wrote:
Tormented is mafia***
Don't phone post kids You had it right the first time fyi. Also, I do agree ksc seems to be scrambling to make up for any reads that hts might have given away. does this mean i'm mafia then?
This is kind of a scummy question. Agree/disagree?
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Artanis, bad bad. Using meta to describe my play? Plz. And even worse still, using months old meta. The reason my town play isn't like Shadow or like you're used to is because my town play is shit and I'm trying to improve myself. Yamato will vouch.
As for reads yamato, my schedule has been particularly brutal as of Monday. I'll try to look at stuff after iris tonight.
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On February 25 2015 09:38 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On February 25 2015 09:29 yamato77 wrote:
So artanis, what exactly do you think of me? Leaning mafia, but I think the case on Tormented is better. Reading Cell right now I notice WoS bashing meta. I chuckled. loooooooool
And I will continue to bash it.
It's fucking terrible and even when I'm scum people attempt to catch me with it and fail.
By all means continue though
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I'm not going to lie, I have zero clue what is going on in thread right now. I don't know who is a suspect, who looks scummy to whom. This hasn't been a particularly productive day so I'm going to attempt to re-read later tonight to see if I pick up on anything.
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On February 25 2015 13:41 Snarfs wrote:This is awkward, but I think Node is actually mafia. Have a look at a few of his posts. FIRST: His waffling about Damdred. "Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. : In the following post, he completely misrepresents Tronak, then says he just has a null read on him but if he doesn't do anything he's scum. "Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) Node's summary of Tronak's list is the following: "Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Here's what Tronak actually says: myself, yamato, and artanis feel scummy I believe Node is purposely trying to shed Tronak in a poor light so that he can justify a lynch on him should the sentiment sway that way. THIRD:This is the post that turned me back around after my attempt at looking at his previous games. He's talking about me, and keep in mind I know I'm town, but he shouldn't. If Node was town, how does he go from "this guy is my number 1 mafia read" to "this guy's actions could completely be explained by mafia, but if I see more of it I might consider him town"? His actual quote: "Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 11:16 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 10:57 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 17:37 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2015 09:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole.
Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch? This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up. Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote. Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now. On February 25 2015 04:51 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. RNG was so pure. This post bleeds red to me Something about the sequence here reads "let me make several arguments for why you're mafia and then say that I don't suspect you but leave the door open for doing so later" I don't believe that someone as active as Damdred early on that attracts as much attention as he has is likely to be scum. I feel that we're much better off early on putting pressure on people that are hesitant to post. Yes, it's possible to post a lot and be scum, but town benefits a lot more at this point from forcing those that aren't posting to respond -- Damdred's already given us plenty to work with as time passes. However, I also think he could also be doing a much better job of actually hunting scum. (For one thing, when the threads get as long as they do as quickly as they do in this forum, you'd better believe quotes are an important tool if you want people to listen to you. Don't depend on others to draw the conclusions you have.)
Which brings me to Snarfs: He's content to pop up and comment on what's going on, but constantly asking people what they think of other people isn't actually much of a contribution. What does he actually think about anybody other than me? His big post seems substantial, but what's backing it up? Again, he says he'd be "pretty happy" to lynch either The Shining or sicklucker, but flash forward a day and there's still nothing else on those two. Like, it costs nothing to throw your vote around. Put your money where your mouth is. On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. On February 25 2015 07:41 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) ok, do it once, I can give a pass with a decent-sounding answer do it TWICE? no way who do you actually scumread if all of your would-be cases turn into "I don't actually read him mafia yet"?
And if you'd be willing to call Tronak scum based on what we've seen so far, be my guest. I'm not. My hope is that he'll see the pressure and step up to the plate, but if he doesn't, well, my vote can certainly be changed.
Explain please Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me. None of this makes sense to me from a town perspective. My only explanation is that he's mafia. ##Vote: Node
Meh.
I know I'd never say anything as terrible as 'I don't think you're scum yet' as scum.
Trying to work up the motivation to re-read. I probably should too since I won't be around for deadline.
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Yamato I'd laugh really hard if you get lynched today
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You know what?
Tronak could be scum.
Gotta read.
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On February 25 2015 21:46 Damdred wrote:
Why is kel even mentioned at the end of your post when he's not in your paragraph really when you caught up on everyone?
really weird post
Yuuuuup
Think about his choice of targets too and who they're each targeting. And he mentions this himself because he knows it seems awful so he tries to explain it away
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On February 25 2015 21:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Wave what do you actually think of Yamato?
Most likely town
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Oh and for someone else for people to think about, probby has flown completely under the radar today after everyone town read him.
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On February 25 2015 21:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 21:58 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 25 2015 21:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Wave what do you actually think of Yamato? Most likely town Why? I really don't see it.
Feels and some super early game stuff.
Plus the cycle of caring /not caring today fits with his usual town play.
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On February 25 2015 22:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Damdred stop posting whilst driving, you're a traffic hazard
Yeah seriously, haven't you been ticketed multiple times because of that?
And Artanis if that isn't helpful why aren't you voting Yamato with the rest of these guys?
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Kelsier I'm not sure what's making you play like this as compared to Guilty but it's weird and off putting, whether or not you're having 'fun.'
Just in case I don't get back to things
##vote: tronak
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Shits really hard. I've tried. You have to know all those tricks and what keywords to look for going in.
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I would vote yamato cause sometimes it forces him to play, but meh. Guy's town.
I want to go back and read prob but I have no time; I hate the fact that he's fallen off everyone's radar after being a huge force early.
##unvote
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When did I ever say he trolled early so he is mafia?
The shit are you on about?
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Considering there was no other post between, I assumed.
Anyway I have 15? Min to talk I guess. Ksc who are you voting for and why?
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On February 26 2015 03:15 yamato77 wrote:
I like damdred's posts about Snarfs. Dude has been seriously fishy this whole game.
For one, I'm pretty sure Node is town. For two, the way he's sort of just landed on Kels makes me highly suspicious. If someone has to bait you into voting them, it looks bad.
Kelsier looks a lot better now than when I initially voted him. Snarfs looks worse. Artanis looks better, even if he's ununnecessarily fixated on me. Tormented is at least trying, to an extent.
Right now I kinda want to lynch Snarfs. Ever since his first big post, I've had him down as solidly scummy but I've sat on it and waited. He never really got better.
##Vote: Snarfs
I might be cool with this. At the very least I like the post.
Who else is scummy yamato? A bunch of your reads are lining up with mine atm
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I have some meta-related problems with ksc but I'm ignoring them because I've only played one game with him and have been gone for months.
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Well damdred that was my initial problem with you, remember? Nonstop confidence that has was scum and then you just stopped pushing it. Why is what snares did in the regard different?
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And snares=snarfs fucking phone posting
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On February 26 2015 03:28 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 03:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well damdred that was my initial problem with you, remember? Nonstop confidence that has was scum and then you just stopped pushing it. Why is what snares did in the regard different? I stopped pushing it for two seconds waiting on hts to do stuff then kel replaced in theris a bit of a difference I think. I didn't write a case exactly, and after I said I would back off I still wrote why I think they are scum and pressured kel and eden. Here we have, someone go I think this person is mafia! A few hours later they give a meta post explaining why they were wrong and they are now town. However you have pro I think it was say this wasn't the snarf he remembers and he would of went for the throat. Directly after this he comes up with a hard scum read on node when everything he scum read that person for had already happened in the thread before he made the town read. He then under light pressure and no push to get people to consier node as mafia says hes been gone to long drops it. Says artanis is scummy, drops it after nobody agrees, moves on to say he would lynch tormented. Then votes kel a few seconds later for hts being wishy washy. Its a totally different thing
Alright.
Artanis when you get back, are you still on tormented?
What are your thoughts on snarfs exactly?
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On February 26 2015 04:54 Eden1892 wrote:
What the hell guys why are you letting yamato and Wave turn this onto Snarfs? These guys are people we're starting to circle and then they're like "yeah lynch snarfs he contradicted himself (because townies NEVER do that!!) once or twice lol!" and now everyone's talking about lynching Snarfs. We're not doing that. Come on.
Kelsier, sicklucker is town.
sicklucker, Kelsier is (probably) town. (Contradicting myself from earlier lol much scum!! But he's actually started getting involved and his lines of questioning make more sense to me. He's not today's lynch.)
Y'all stop and help me lynch Wave or yamato, prefs Wave.
I kinda get this Yoda Zen sense that Artanis might be mafia but I'm not even entertaining it seriously unless/until Wave flips scum.
Yup I'm totally leading the snarfs lynch.
Hear that damdred? You should totally lynch me because I'm the one pushing to lynch snarfs, amirite?
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Shits gotten quiet. I'm going to have to vote someone very soon so it's time for people to consolidate otherwise scum runs away with D1.
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Lol you literally said I'm turning this onto snarfs.
I made it very clear I haven't even read the guy properly and haven't had time, nor have I voted him. If anything you're the one flinging shit right now eden.
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Actually, a bunch of my town read are on snarfs looking at that vote count, I feel OK with it.
##vote: snarfs
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Eden you're welcome to toss your vote in the shitter by voting for me today, just know how it makes you look.
Your choice, buddeh.
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On February 26 2015 05:55 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 05:53 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2015 05:49 Eden1892 wrote:Good job not even reading, yamato. On February 26 2015 04:45 Eden1892 wrote:Responding to older stuff I missed b/c I overestimated how much time I had before work. I reserve the right to make hilariously blatant contradictions after I read the posts from after I left On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. "Adhering more to thread sentiment" isn't what Wave was doing with Kelsier. He just floats the question out there and does nothing with it afterward. He even said "I think this is a scummy question" and then ignored me when I asked why. That isn't probing people for their thoughts. He kinda did some probing with Damdred which is why I'm a little hesitant (not enough to matter), but after that he just goes on cruise control. And yes, his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory with the quote I provided. He acknowledges a weakness in being able to read new people who say things that are superficially suspicious. A new player says something superficially suspicious. A townie in this situation would question the new player further to understand where that player is coming from, being cognizant of his own weakness in reading and seeking to overcome his bias and find a more accurate read. A mobster in this situation would just vote the guy for contradicting himself and then go "oops, looks like my newbie-reading weakness caught me again, haha!" after the guy flips town. And now who's chainsaw-defending, huh? I just checked your filter, you literally haven't given a read on Wave all game long. Yet as soon as I start pushing Wave you literally make things up (I "don't have a case on Wave" even though I've posted it and quoted it here for you) and start shit flinging without even so much as voting for me. You COULD be town, but it's becoming increasingly unlikely. Commit to a fucking read on me you coward
My my, what a fiesty little minx.
And yamato plz defend me cause I won't be around for deadlines kthx bby
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I've gotten fucked by mind melding with scum before. Really recently too. It's not very hard to get into a townie mindset as scum, contrary to popular belief. I don't use minded as a town till anymore.
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On February 26 2015 06:24 The Shining wrote:
Wow catching up on 30+ pages really is a feat, huh? I'm sorry guys, I feel really shitty about the last two days. when this game started, I had just been NK out of my last game. I took Monday to refresh myself for this game and got called into work on my day off yesterday. Just for reference, I play on my tablet at work. I forgot to bring it with me last night.
However I'm not a big fan of replacements, especially this close to EoD, and I still have over 2 hours. I have read and skimmed at least the first 10 pages but there's a lot more to read/analyze.
Free pass wheeeeee
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Ksc if yamato was scum he wouldn't have even done that much.
This game is town yamato's formula.i hate fucking meta and even I will admit to it.
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Fiuuuck I really wish I could do in depth reading right now probbob is back
Node is town cause of something I said earlier, forget what it was. I'm generally OK with him.
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On February 26 2015 06:27 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 06:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ksc if yamato was scum he wouldn't have even done that much.
This game is town yamato's formula.i hate fucking meta and even I will admit to it. are you called yamato?
Townbros gotta stick up for each other
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I'd lunch that guy maybe but I feel like it would be doing so just as blind.
All he does is spam and spout random shit and I don't know how he normally plays.
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On February 26 2015 06:38 yamato77 wrote:You better be town you fucker.
I do admit if I was scum I'd be laughing all da way to da bank, and I'm sure it's the same for you
We should try to get a time when we're on together so we can talk and get reads done and shit like we talked about
I'm not happy with my performance thus far
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On February 25 2015 14:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 13:41 Snarfs wrote:This is awkward, but I think Node is actually mafia. Have a look at a few of his posts. FIRST: His waffling about Damdred. "Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. : In the following post, he completely misrepresents Tronak, then says he just has a null read on him but if he doesn't do anything he's scum. "Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) Node's summary of Tronak's list is the following: "Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." Here's what Tronak actually says: myself, yamato, and artanis feel scummy I believe Node is purposely trying to shed Tronak in a poor light so that he can justify a lynch on him should the sentiment sway that way. THIRD:This is the post that turned me back around after my attempt at looking at his previous games. He's talking about me, and keep in mind I know I'm town, but he shouldn't. If Node was town, how does he go from "this guy is my number 1 mafia read" to "this guy's actions could completely be explained by mafia, but if I see more of it I might consider him town"? His actual quote: "Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me." + Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 11:16 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 10:57 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 17:37 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2015 09:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole.
Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch? This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up. Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote. Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now. On February 25 2015 04:51 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. RNG was so pure. This post bleeds red to me Something about the sequence here reads "let me make several arguments for why you're mafia and then say that I don't suspect you but leave the door open for doing so later" I don't believe that someone as active as Damdred early on that attracts as much attention as he has is likely to be scum. I feel that we're much better off early on putting pressure on people that are hesitant to post. Yes, it's possible to post a lot and be scum, but town benefits a lot more at this point from forcing those that aren't posting to respond -- Damdred's already given us plenty to work with as time passes. However, I also think he could also be doing a much better job of actually hunting scum. (For one thing, when the threads get as long as they do as quickly as they do in this forum, you'd better believe quotes are an important tool if you want people to listen to you. Don't depend on others to draw the conclusions you have.)
Which brings me to Snarfs: He's content to pop up and comment on what's going on, but constantly asking people what they think of other people isn't actually much of a contribution. What does he actually think about anybody other than me? His big post seems substantial, but what's backing it up? Again, he says he'd be "pretty happy" to lynch either The Shining or sicklucker, but flash forward a day and there's still nothing else on those two. Like, it costs nothing to throw your vote around. Put your money where your mouth is. On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. On February 25 2015 07:41 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) ok, do it once, I can give a pass with a decent-sounding answer do it TWICE? no way who do you actually scumread if all of your would-be cases turn into "I don't actually read him mafia yet"?
And if you'd be willing to call Tronak scum based on what we've seen so far, be my guest. I'm not. My hope is that he'll see the pressure and step up to the plate, but if he doesn't, well, my vote can certainly be changed.
Explain please Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged. But I like to see actual analysis, and more of it on other people is likely to sway me. None of this makes sense to me from a town perspective. My only explanation is that he's mafia. ##Vote: Node Meh. I know I'd never say anything as terrible as 'I don't think you're scum yet' as scum. Trying to work up the motivation to re-read. I probably should too since I won't be around for deadline.
Here's why I thought node was town btw
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