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On February 24 2015 10:18 Half the Sky wrote:So Eden wants to get dirty, hey Artanis, what do think of that?  In any case, as far as Prob being serious...I don't know him. I don't know whether people played more serious back in the day, assuming he's another old timer. He's serious but he's not stiff. I don't sense any discomfort in his posts. He seems assertive/comfortable from what I read of his posts so he's probably town.
No it's not "old-timers", I'm just an asshole that's all.
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On February 24 2015 10:35 Half the Sky wrote:
I see Probulous. Curious how long have you been around TL?
A while. I signed up with the wings of liberty release. Maybe we should keep this stuff out of the thread. It's already getting long and full of shit. Partially my fault, will do better.
@Snarfs, you still around? Been reading your old games and damn son you got some skills. I still want your thoughts on what's going on, particularly this Yamato, Artanis business.
@Artanis, can you stop shitting up the thread with your fluff? Between you and Yamato it's going o be impossible to keep track of what's going on. Signed, grumpy old man.
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On February 24 2015 11:08 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:51 Probulous wrote:On February 24 2015 10:35 Half the Sky wrote:
I see Probulous. Curious how long have you been around TL? A while. I signed up with the wings of liberty release. Maybe we should keep this stuff out of the thread. It's already getting long and full of shit. Partially my fault, will do better. @Snarfs, you still around? Been reading your old games and damn son you got some skills. I still want your thoughts on what's going on, particularly this Yamato, Artanis business. @Artanis, can you stop shitting up the thread with your fluff? Between you and Yamato it's going o be impossible to keep track of what's going on. Signed, grumpy old man. Yea, I'm still here. Just wrapping up some work before heading home. Yamato/Artanis looks like two old friends having a good joke back and forth. Not really alignment indicative, imo. Don't worry, I'll let you know if anything sticks out to me. And for someone who was once in the running for "Best player never to win a game" claiming I got some skills is a nice compliment 
ROFL, you're too kind, or an asshole, I can't decide
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On February 24 2015 11:22 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:21 Snarfs wrote:On February 24 2015 11:19 yamato77 wrote:
ok artanis, you're off the hook for now
##unvote
##vote: _tormented_ Reasons please? instead of me making a case at this point and people taking their stances on my reasoning, I'd rather people consider him independently of my own thoughts
It's based on this.
On February 24 2015 11:16 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:13 _Tormented_ wrote:
lol fine, here ya go before I have to leave work. Take it for what you will.
Player List
1) Probulous (filter) - town
2) Artanis[Xp] (filter) - town or overly aggressive mafia
3) Half the Sky (filter) - town
4) sicklucker (filter) - town
5) Tronak (filter) - no clue
6) Yamato77 (filter) - mafia
7) _Tormented_ (filter) - town
8) Node (filter) - no clue
9) The Shining (filter) - no clue
10) Eden1892 (filter) - either mafia or he is just being obtuse for no reason
11) WaveofShadow (filter) - no clue
12) Damdred (filter) - town
13) snarfs (filter) - no clue Lol?
As far as I can tell, the combination of calling Sicklucker town when he hasn't posted, and calling Yamato scum is what made him vote.
I quite like Tormented's posting so I disagree.
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These are good posts
On February 24 2015 10:02 _Tormented_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:00 Eden1892 wrote:On February 24 2015 09:03 Snarfs wrote:
So, not recognizing the following names:
3) Half the Sky
4) sicklucker
5) Tronak
7) _Tormented_
9) The Shining
10) Eden1892
12) Damdred
I'm curious who the new new players are and how much experience each of the listed people has. Should help me get an idea of what to expect as far as town/mafia capabilities are concerned. I've never played this game on TL and I am really bad at it in other venues Trying to out sarcasm damdred?
On February 24 2015 10:44 _Tormented_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 10:43 Damdred wrote:
Lol tormented there is no mayor.
Really ask now. Also yam is good shot at...town. discuss while I'm gone True, but I would have liked to see what he said to the question. lol :p
Both actively looking for responses to try and out scum. Especially the first one picking up that Eden posted almost identically to how Damdred started (which I called out).
Positive intent.
On February 24 2015 11:17 _Tormented_ wrote:
sorry meant that town for hts and a no clue for sucklucker
Reasonable explanation to me.
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On February 24 2015 11:36 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 09:03 Snarfs wrote:
So, not recognizing the following names:
3) Half the Sky - Pretty good for 5 games played
4) sicklucker -Best player ever
5) Tronak - No idea probably new
7) _Tormented_ - No idea probably new
9) The Shining - A real new player
10) Eden1892 - Great town terrible mafia
12) Damdred- Great town terrible mafia
I'm curious who the new new players are and how much experience each of the listed people has. Should help me get an idea of what to expect as far as town/mafia capabilities are concerned.
What the fuck is this???
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Your first post is a quote with nothing in it? Oh shit, you deleted some names and added your thoughts. Missed that first time round. Just looked like you quoted but added nothing.
Nevermind.
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##Vote Damdred
First up he starts real wishy-washy, sure it's early game but you are accountable for your posts.
On February 24 2015 09:48 Damdred wrote:
I would so sheep you artanis, best mayor ever.
I am a relative newb expect little from me, except I rekt scum.
Also rng is out the window, we lynch scum today
I've explained before why that first post is scummy. OK, early game, give the guy a break.Then out of nowhere comes this
On February 24 2015 10:37 Damdred wrote:
Hts I think Eden is Scum. You didagree On February 24 2015 10:50 Half the Sky wrote:
Damdred you also were in Titanic with us. Why do you think Eden is scum? Which to me is a reasonable response from HTS. Especially since everything seems to be based on the fact that Eden is happy? Like what kind of reasoning is that? If there are other reason I'd like to hear them but Damdred never answered the question. Then instead of really pushing Eden to contribute more he just random switches to HTS.
On February 24 2015 11:40 Damdred wrote:
Hts is scum btw I think.
Tormented might of made a mistake. Hts is scum rhough On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts
OK we get a little more explanation about Eden even then its soft as shit. The sort of thing that scum thrives on.We get sweet fuck all about HTS. The guy has no case for why HTS or Eden really, are mafia but he is quite happy to spout it about the thread and when asked to explain gives no reasoning. Classic scum scare tactics. Then when someone, who I assume is reasonably experienced (Sorry if that offends you Wave), goes in a different direction, Damred straight up tech-switches again.
On February 24 2015 11:48 Damdred wrote:
Cool stuff wave.
Anyway I'll give Hts some more time but its a gut read on her so far.
That's what he thinks of us
For those that want to know what searing insight Wave provided for this road-to-damascus transformation (ok, that was harsh), here it is.
On February 24 2015 11:44 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:40 Damdred wrote:
Hts is scum btw I think.
Tormented might of made a mistake. Hts is scum rhough Might have. ##vote: damdred
A vote. He gets pressured and wilts. Instead of providing some explanation as to why he thinks HTS is scum, or perhaps trying to convince the rest of us to look into Eden and HTS, he simply gives up. Much easier to stay out of the spotlight and cast some suspicion around.
TLDR: Damdred starts by trying to lower expectations, calls Eden scum with little reasoning, calls HTS scum with even less and then backs off when given just a little pressure. Why would scum do this, well it provides nice cover if either of these two are up for a lynch without having to stick your neck out.
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I called you reasonably experienced, I haven't done a lot of research of on you yet so maybe you are actually very experienced. You never know, people get pissed about stupid stuff.
I know it's a text wall but it's my thoughts right now.
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On February 24 2015 12:54 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 11:14 Damdred wrote:
How is Eden having fun exactly Hts? Why do you say that?
Also I wasn't in that game at that point. I'm glad I checked back in obviously still on phone so have to break it up. Obviously I did answer Hts question about Eden, that I wasn't in the game at the point of Eden being alive as I replaced in after he died.
But you didn't explain what your case was against Eden. All I can find is you thinking that the random-lynch thing was a town distraction. I get it you have some sort of super-secret-scum-radar but the rest of us don't and we need to be convinced. This
On February 24 2015 12:58 Damdred wrote:
I don't need to interact with someone to decide if they are scum or not. They just need to talk in the thread and I read filters and make cases I don't drop cases this early in the game just give gut or feel reads. Backing off of Hts is meh but she's not here.
is not good enough. How exactly are we supposed to learn anything about you, if your way of playing is to just cast out your suspicions and then waltz off into the distance when someone asks you about them.
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Confession time, my post on Damred was premature and I knew at the time. But it seems to have worked in a sense. At least he is posting more and being a little more proactive. After my initial case dropped he pleaded for more time to make his case. That his reads at that point in time were purely meta based and so not yet ready. This seems completely fair to me. So what has he done since then.
Damred's Case Against Eden
It's all about the meta-game. Damred's initial case
+ Show Spoiler +- Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now
- What do you want me to do exactly I don't enjoy using meta especially hours into a game and show you how Eden usually has like 5 pages of filter is constantly pushing the thread forward. The having fun excuse is a bad one because he started Linux mafia the same way seemingly having fun before he got nailed, if you look in new years eve mafia you see the same thing. But all we have here is that this Eden isn't spamming or trying to make plays like in horn of Africa mafia.
- For instance Eden, if Marvs tone is off and he's not doing Marv things he's scum. Your scum game is pretty apparent over time. You are a pretty easy town read and when read can tell your scum a part from your town. You are missing some of your carefree jumping everywhere and trying to make a play. Its not enough for a vote and its more of a gut meta read which is early indeed.
- I do not think that you and HTS can be on a scum team right at this moment for a couple reasons not really looking for a team if I think either of you are scummy at this point its separate of each other but HTS has an odd reaction i'll talk about briefly in a second.
- Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
Not exactly an improvement but ok there must be something in the works right? Well no, what we get is this.
+ Show Spoiler +Though Eden bothers me a ton, really aloof of the thread only taking shots from the sideline lacks follow up on earlier things. Suddenly I want to lynch Eden.,,
Eden is passive and sniping from the sidelines, lacking follow up. This is Damred's best post as far as I can tell. So what is the motivation here? He has pleaded for time to make a case, he's got that, and as far as I can tell this is all he has but he happy to lynch off of it. Sounds a lot like a meta case to me. Damred is not interested in pushing cases, he just wants the heat off of himself.
When Eden pushes him to actually put some work into his suspicions he gets these responses
+ Show Spoiler +- Seriously eden, last night I explained my misgivings on you and hts. You asked I answered, after I answered wave took over. You haven't really responded to that still. You reentered the thread called for policy lynch didn't act on it moved on to picking on node. Nowback to ksc. You just aren't trying to figure things out but have the appearance at this point
- People can check out your filter and come to their own conclussions. I post my thoughts. And people can fact check you know that's how I work. Which makes this a super defensive post. Actually you do have to defend yourself and when you compare this tone wise length wise and content wise it's way different than your town. When I say wave took over you disappeared after I answered you. Your reads are lacking for you as kel pointed out though.
- Nope not dumb I've given you two posts that were concise and talked about your play here. You wanted us to look at your mafia games to compare here which isn't what we need to do, you lack follow up on a shot ton of things. I've pointed out several. You lack a clear push just settling on tormented even though you are clearly slumming hts slot. Which is possible to be mafia granted. And this isn't about some associative read with hts
Well Damred please show me these magical posts. I know I write text walls but at least you can follow my thought process.
Now I know that Damred has been pushing HTS/KSC harder. I am looking into that case, but for me his "case" on Eden seals the deal. Surely if you're town you have two goals, number one find scum, number 2 don't get lynched. If you are under the pump for being too passive with your reads and spreading suspicion around without building a case, you build that case. If you really think Eden is scum, you run that shit hard until people get on board and convince people to lynch them. If you aren't sure, you stop casting suspicion around as all that does is provide cover for scum. If you think HTS/KSc is a better target, you build that case and advocate for their lynch.
Now if you happen to be scum, you're number one priority is to avoid the rope, you can give sweet fuck all priority to finding scum. What you need is people to look elsewhere. Your focus becomes moving the target of suspicion to someone else so who cares if you post a case. So maybe you back off Eden a little, focus more on someone else, but you just can't help adding a bit of negativity where possible. Because hey, who knows who might be up for a lynch come EOD.
TLDR: Damred has no interest in presenting a coherent argument. His focus is not finding scum and convincing us to lynch them. According to his own posting he makes god-tier scum-wrecking cases and what we have is "passivity and sniping". If that is true then why is he not interested in presenting one that nails Eden to the wall but is still happy to lynch him? Doesn't sound like town play to me.
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On February 24 2015 17:37 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2015 09:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I see some other games with some of these other guys as well. And Tronak said already that it's his/her first mafia game ever so it looks like I'm covered in this regard, no need to continue down the rabbit hole.
Is this the point where someone proposes an RNG lynch? This was really early in the game, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd like to point out that this is actually really scummy. Beyond an RNG lynch being an awful idea for reasons already stated, there's also bit of a deflection here -- Snarfs isn't going to propose a lynch, "someone" is. Nevermind that he's the first one to actually bring it up. Snarfs also just posted a wall of text without actually saying much of anything. Yeah, there are some reads in there, but considering there are a couple of people that he'd lynch "pretty happily", there's nothing concrete. Just some feels without conclusions and a distinct lack of an actual case or vote. Based on that, I'm going to park at ##Vote: Snarfs for now.
On February 25 2015 04:51 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 01:44 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 00:47 Damdred wrote:On February 24 2015 17:48 Node wrote:On February 24 2015 15:53 Damdred wrote:
I never threw any shit honestly I think Hts is scum, Eden is potential scum based off of meta at this point.
There are always two sides of giving someone a chance they give you more evidence to help secure a lynch, or they come in and proove they are town.
HTS is a very capable town player, sometimes she gets tricked but still a good player. Very capable of looking town with original thoughts.
So why can't their be town motivation in making sure I don't get tunneled on something hours into a game when Hts hasn't even broken a page quite yet, bit has said some questionable things. I have no issues with people backing off a read, but you can't keep saying you think people are "potential scum" or have said "questionable things" without actually putting some substance behind it. Make a case! Scum doesn't care about a few people maybe being iffy about them, they care about hard cases that put them in the spotlight. you seemingly haven't read the whole thread or only skimmed as I answered why I think both are scummy. This is interesting post OMGUS harder, why don't you? It's a little annoying how one of the default responses to criticism is "did you even READ?" I read your filter. You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight. A key tell for a mafia is indecisiveness, and what people are picking up on isn't that you're backing off on your reads, it's that they were barely there to begin with. It's as if they were practically set up just to be backed off of later, or inconsequential enough that you wouldn't have to follow through. Here's what I'm talking about: On February 24 2015 13:04 Damdred wrote:
though pr is most interesting person in the thread On February 24 2015 11:44 Damdred wrote:
Eden you feel so disconnected and out of it right now. I'm really really worrying you rolled scum with hts Now, I want to make it clear that I don't think you're scum. Yet. (a blatant OMGUS isn't helping) But I do think your posts have done little more than gum up the thread. It's one thing to call my post "interesting" and start to get people thinking about me. It's another to actually say what I did was scummy and why. RNG was so pure. This post bleeds red to me Something about the sequence here reads "let me make several arguments for why you're mafia and then say that I don't suspect you but leave the door open for doing so later" I don't believe that someone as active as Damdred early on that attracts as much attention as he has is likely to be scum. I feel that we're much better off early on putting pressure on people that are hesitant to post. Yes, it's possible to post a lot and be scum, but town benefits a lot more at this point from forcing those that aren't posting to respond -- Damdred's already given us plenty to work with as time passes. However, I also think he could also be doing a much better job of actually hunting scum. (For one thing, when the threads get as long as they do as quickly as they do in this forum, you'd better believe quotes are an important tool if you want people to listen to you. Don't depend on others to draw the conclusions you have.)
Which brings me to Snarfs: He's content to pop up and comment on what's going on, but constantly asking people what they think of other people isn't actually much of a contribution. What does he actually think about anybody other than me? His big post seems substantial, but what's backing it up? Again, he says he'd be "pretty happy" to lynch either The Shining or sicklucker, but flash forward a day and there's still nothing else on those two. Like, it costs nothing to throw your vote around. Put your money where your mouth is.
On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia." Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information.
On February 25 2015 07:41 Node wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 07:12 Node wrote:On February 25 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote:On February 25 2015 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:
You had to post 6 times For that? Hi this is my posting style deal witth it We might deal with it by lynching you. Can we not turn this into a spamfest? Seriously, I don't have the time to deal with hundreds of pointless posts a day. And speaking of pointless posts, let's have a quick gander at what Tronak has had to say so far. On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote:
After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them:
1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player?
Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post.
2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given?
Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is
-Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why?
I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this.
3) Tormented throws his bomb list.
Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose.
4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment.
5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post.
If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure!
Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way.
"Here's a bunch of things that have happened so far. Some of these people might be scum, but they all feel like town." On February 25 2015 03:16 Tronak wrote:On February 25 2015 02:57 Snarfs wrote:
Tronak, you left Node off your list. Your thoughts please? Actually some points: -He pointed out before me the scummy sense of your RNG voting post. Since I had same, "maybe" unexperienced, reading while i was reading your post, my first impression was to feel aligned with him, therefore should be townie to my eyes. -About voting on you so directly = since he posted that his reason was just a "grain of salt" I suspect is just a move to push you = townie again to get information about you. - Recently he pushes agressively Damdred which I can only applaud since I look forward for more information about this last one. (to my eyes this should be townie post again, or.... could be mafia move to save Tormented, in case he is mafia). "Here's what Node has done. He might be town, but he might also be mafia."
Overall, I don't have a read on Tronak yet, but that's because he hasn't actually said anything. I'm willing to cut him some slack for being totally new, but if he doesn't step it up soon and get some posts that go above sounding desperate to contribute, I'm going to get a lot more suspicious. On February 25 2015 05:33 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There we go. Here's what I have written on Node: On February 25 2015 02:55 Snarfs wrote:
Once I get to work I'll probably dig through some of Node's recent games. I don't know much about his play except that he's been around for awhile. Following up a bit, I'm less convinced that Node's opener indicates he is mafia. Keep in mind these were games from ~2.5 years ago, but if he hasn't played mafia in between then there's no indication that he would have changed so it's all I've got to go on. From Death Note mafia (Node as town detective): + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2012 09:19 Node wrote:I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why: Show nested quote +One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited) Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing. There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum. ##vote BlackMamba24 What I read here is a very pressure-oriented tactic. It feels very similar to how he opened up against me. He focuses in on a single player and doesn't waver at all in his assertion that this player must be mafia because of a single thing they said. He also doesn't drop any town reads. From Liquid City mafia (Node as mafia goon): + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. Now, kush on the other hand has been talking a lot about absolutely nothing. Seeing as he considers his vote on Shady absolutely inconsequential so far ("My vote for Shady had nothing to do with a scumread of any sort"), he's sure spent an awful lot of time discussing it. Weirdly enough, he justifies his current vote by saying he doesn't have any scum reads, yet has also thrown a few FoS's around. So, we see his vote that doesn't matter (yet) on someone he doesn't care about, instead of actually pushing the rather perfunctory cases he's made so far, possibly just so he can look like he's actually contributing. So, I'll actually put my vote where my mouth is. ##vote kushm4staShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
##FoS Coagulation
Shitty one-liners and refuses to explain anything. Either very arrogant or wants to pretend he is actually contributing. Bolded for emphasis. This is pretty much exactly how Coagulation plays every game. If he's town, in a day or two he'll come up with a handful of proper scum reads to tunnel for the rest of the game, about half of which will be correct. Contrast this with Node's opener as mafia. Here he's making sure to comment on something else going on in the thread. He's dropping town reads to fit in. "Hmm Shady Sands is probably not scum. He's silly but not scummy... hmm maybe we can look at someone else and here's a decent reason why." And then he continues to comment on some other pieces of information. This right here is the kind of thing I like to see. (and not just because it concludes I'm town) ok, do it once, I can give a pass with a decent-sounding answer do it TWICE? no way who do you actually scumread if all of your would-be cases turn into "I don't actually read him mafia yet"?
And if you'd be willing to call Tronak scum based on what we've seen so far, be my guest. I'm not. My hope is that he'll see the pressure and step up to the plate, but if he doesn't, well, my vote can certainly be changed.
Explain please
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On February 25 2015 10:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm not going to lie, I have zero clue what is going on in thread right now. I don't know who is a suspect, who looks scummy to whom. This hasn't been a particularly productive day so I'm going to attempt to re-read later tonight to see if I pick up on anything.
It's because people are throwing out accusations without backing them up with evidence. It just fucks up the thread.
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"Snarfs has nothing to lose by "concluding" that I'm town if he is mafia, so my vote remains unchanged"
If he concluded you were mafia would that change things?
I agree we need to see more from him.
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On February 25 2015 11:36 Damdred wrote:
Your post made me chuckle.
Nothing you wrote makes me scum at all, it only means you dislike hoe i do things or the way I'm trying to drive a conversations. Most of my cases and convincing usually occurs after filter diving and deciding who I want to lynch. You make it seem like I need to have everything figures out when we almost have a full day for things to develop.
No, just that if you are going to cast suspicion about, you should have some good reasons for it.
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On February 25 2015 11:37 Snarfs wrote:I think the main premiss in your case against Damdred is flawed. Town isn't the team that needs to make up cases in order to win the game.
Who said anything about "making up" cases? How exactly is soft-pushing people helpful?
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On February 25 2015 11:44 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 11:43 Probulous wrote:On February 25 2015 11:37 Snarfs wrote:I think the main premiss in your case against Damdred is flawed. Town isn't the team that needs to make up cases in order to win the game. Who said anything about "making up" cases? How exactly is soft-pushing people helpful? It gives us insight into his thought process as the game goes on, so if we see it shift suddenly without reason we can nail him for it. I don't follow. If he suddenly posts a fantastic case or if he changes target?
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On February 25 2015 07:33 yamato77 wrote:
I think ksc might be mafia.
I remember him being obstinate as town but not altogether unwilling to participate. He was much more forthcoming in the game I played with him.
I assume this is why the
On February 25 2015 11:45 yamato77 wrote:
##unvote
##vote: kelsiersc
am i missing something?
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Anybody know what happened to The Shining?
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Eden, why is your vote on tormentor?
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EPT
