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I wish I could take a closer look, but on memory alone, I would greatly prefer an ElyAs lynch to a zlefin lynch. I might try to make a case on ElyAs with something like 10 minutes to the deadline, but probably not. Oh well.
If someone wants to look into alternate wagons, though, I suggest ElyAs.
Hier, if you are in fact town, I apologize. Mislynches happen.
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Quick filter skim on ElyAs:
Doesn't like your joke about being mafia the last time you posted a provocative entry post, Trfel, thinks it's mafia. Not sold on the Bridges plan.
Initial reads here:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2015 20:08 ElyAs wrote:
Actually, I'm gonna elaborate on this.
Although I don't like Trfel's opening, he is clearly trying to start discussions so I can't scumread him for that. I'm just gonna keep this in mind for later, but not gonna vote for him day 1.
Shining posted a bit and disappeared, his last post was hinting towards "I'm gonna post more later", I expect you to do it. Until then nullread
Rsoultin discussed with Trfel, then with jarjar, she is asking questions, which what I'd expect from town.
jarjarbinks is sharing his insight on rsoultin's demand, but apart from that, not a lot of content. What do you think of Hier's plan ?
Hier only posted his plan, and I've given my thoughts on that.
Pokes the two inactives (my slot and Silver), pokes zlef for reads on Trfel and JarJar,
Feels better about Trfel's entry, likes Rso's push on Hier. Some discomfort with reading Hier as town, pokes me when I show up.
Case and vote on Hier here:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 23:45 ElyAs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 21:07 zlefin wrote:On February 16 2015 15:17 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 15:10 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:52 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:47 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 12:51 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote:
rsoultin:
In 3 separate posts you have described your reads to be null towards people that have posted, and despite you not liking the Bridges method, which is fine, said that it is something a town player may suggest thinking it’s good.
Later, after someone mentioned they weren't a fan of my model, you've gone to suggest that I've done nothing to show that I care about finding scum,
all the while you proclaim your reads are null and just ask what other players’ reads are. That is the way mafia players probe the scene to start a bandwagon.
Why else, out of the blue, without any further analysis, would you vote me to be lynched with the phrase “Tell me why I’m wrong, or get onboard.”? No, it is your job to tell everyone the reasons behind your vote, not to tell everyone to get onboard. Okay, in the interest of fairness, if you genuinely believe each of these claims, I can understand your scumread. So I'm going to ask you to actually quote the posts I made that led you to the three bolded conclusions. Preferably in context, because if you misrepresent me I do very much have a tendency to get tunneled xP Once you've done so, I'll answer the last bit. Alright. You went back to my original accusation, to which you have already responded, and are now demanding further explanation when, quite literally, nobody else is asking for it. People have already read my statement and have made up their minds, whatever those may be. You are creating artificial content by searching for an excuse to re-state your innocence, and projecting the appearance of scum hunting at the same time. That would create drivel. You have not been the centre of discussion for several pages, and nobody has been tunnelling you, much less me. Right now it looks like the one doing the tunnelling is you. Look, for now my vote stays where it is. If you post something that changes my mind or a more obvious scum target comes up I promise I will be the first one to let you know. For now let me focus on somebody else, instead of going through your filter again. On February 16 2015 13:31 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 16 2015 07:58 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it.
Didn't you say that you'd just made this method up? And again, you're focusing on the model and not what I'm asking you for. @Trfel - I am not in favor of Bridges. Clearly. Even if Hier would be the next "auto-lynch" and I'd laugh my ass off if he flips scum, caught in his own mechanism  Hier, I know a lot of people have been asking you questions. Can you answer this one? Should be easy enough? I've already answered this, and my answer isn't changing. Yes, as the game began. As of right now I do not think Trfel or jarjarbinks are scum, and thus have no intention of voting for them. I don't know if this is just because you're new, but me bringing up your case on me and giving you the opportunity to justify it...how does that come from a scum perspective? As you said, no one seems to really be buying your case, so why would I need to further establish my innocence? For the record, I'd still like this answered, Hier. From a more veteran player I'd be calling to lynch you with fire for most of your posts xP but I recognize that this is a newbie game and you might actually believe what you're saying. I just don't know how far my lexicon can take me reiterating my own accusations, and I don't really see the point when you'll just rebuke it my saying I misinterpreted your quotes, thus creating a nucleus for a completely unnecessary discussion. But if you really really really want I'll do so in the morning. It's getting late here too, and tomorrow is a holiday here, so I'll have time. I would like it if you did that, I find this post of yours feels scummy to me. It feels like a lot of blather, and needlessly fanc y words (admittedly something I tend to do myself), that say very little and amount to a post that doesn't really add anything. I kinda agree with you on that post zlefin, and it's not the only post where I feel Hier is almost trying to confuse us. Hier, I think this is inconsistent with the fact that you proposed a plan based on "eliminating chaos". I understand that you're saying "I don't want to create unnecessary discussion", and that is consistent with your thought process, but I still have trouble following you on some posts. (post for reference) Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote:
jarjarbinks, Trfel:
Purely numerically completely off the wall random lynches win out over the Bridges method by a little over 2 percentage points at the second lynch; it is negligible. In both cases mafia’s odds of escaping 2 lynches in a row are a little better than a coin flip.
Better blind mathematical odds are not, however, what I’m advocating. I am selling a platform, a canvas, through which reads can be made. You say people will be content with the predetermined 2nd lynch and activity will drop – I say you’re wrong. As long as there are 2 sides that want to win arguments will always arise, except in this case they will be of a different nature: justification of substitution, rather than a timed mandatory witch hunt. Bandwagons will certainly not be eliminated, but through this method they will demand sturdier foundations, which eliminates chaos.
[...] Plus as other players said, you were only talking about your plan and your scumread on rsoultin, half justified by "She is next on my list" and "She has null reads". Later, you said "Null reads are bad and counter productive". I disagree on that, because it promotes more effort from the person that is painted as null. If I don't have clear scumreads, I'm gonna analyze my null reads first. I do agree that saying "I've got a nullread on an inactive" is not constructive, but on active players, It is. (post for reference) Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 04:23 Hier wrote:
I was excited seeing so many new posts, turns out it was for naught. A lot of people are requesting that I provide further reads. I am going to point out that as off right now ElyAs, zlefin, jarjarbinks, and Trfel have not a single scum read with justification between them. Instead what we have from them is a mass of neutral to townish reads that they aren’t willing to commit to, opting to wait for more posts from other people by asking for their reads.
I have provided my prime scum read with justification. Of course rsoultin may just not be very good at the game, which is fine, but I’ll stand by my claim. The Shining’s scum read on zlefin isn’t without rationale, but I suspect the second mafia player to be one of the two inactive players. I do not have a solid town read, in fact it doesn’t make sense to, and stating you are neutral about that guy and that guy isn’t productive. Now, you said you were going to focus on somebody else, I look forward to this. But until then, ##vote Hier
A lot of what he's saying there I agree with. He does post his slight worry about it being a mislynch later but we've all gone through that I think.
He's not been back in the thread since Hier showed back up.
On the basis of that I wouldn't lynch him over Hier.
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On February 17 2015 06:22 ElyAs wrote:
Came back a little earlier, I'll be there until EOD. I kinda agree with you that Hier is a lynch by default, either we find a better lynch or we make the most of it if he flips town. I'm gonna try to do the former by analyzing the posts since my last post.
Plus, I didn't see anybody actively defending Hier, this is generally a sign of a mislynch if I'm not mistaken
Trfel, saw your post as I was writing mine, I'm not satisfied with this lynch to be honest.
I hope you're still around, do you want to ask me something ? Hm, that's ironic timing.
If you prepare a nice list of reads and show your attentiveness and thinking about recent events, my (small) desire to lynch you will be removed.
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Hier: Who do you think is more likely to turn up scum, Rso or Tere? Is there someone else you think is more likely?
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Elyas your reads on this morning/afternoon's stuff would be appreciated before EOD. Who is your top scumread besides Hier?
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On February 17 2015 05:59 Tere wrote:It's not my neck on the chopping block. I guess Hier doesn't want to defend himself 
It doesn't hurt to answer his stuff first does it?
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On February 17 2015 06:27 jarjarbinks wrote:
Hier: Who do you think is more likely to turn up scum, Rso or Tere? Is there someone else you think is more likely?
I've noted that rsoultin's play could be attributed to a few minor mistakes, all conglomerating to form a potential scum vibe, with a viable agenda. Tere, on the other hand, I don't think I've seen a more obvious scum play.
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Day 1: Counting Down
Hier (6): rsoultin, Silverarte, ElyAs, Tere, Trfel, Zlefin
rsoultin (1) Hier
zlefin (2) The Shining, jarjarbinks
Currently, Hier is set to be expelled from South Park Elementary. Day 1 ends in at 00:00 GMT (+00:00).
Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone.
Remember, voting is Mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
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Well, I put my vote in for Hier, as I'll be going to sleep sometime in the next two hours, and am not sure when that will be, depending on how tired I feel, already feeling somewhat tired.
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Reminder to all players regarding ties: In the event of a tie vote, the player who is the first to reach the given number of votes in the tie is the player that gets lynched.
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On February 17 2015 05:55 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:50 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:48 Hier wrote:On February 17 2015 05:42 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:24 Hier wrote:
Now that I've started reading Tere's filter I've noticed that she does not have a case on me at all. She has taken rsoultin's route of "Your post is bad, Hier." No suggestion of intention, or a probable goal I might have as scum. This seems like an easy bandwagon to jump onto, scoring a free townie lynch. Ballsacks, I make my view of you pretty damn clear in the post explaining my vote, including specific posts I think are scummy, and have pointed out one of the items I think most problematic again very recently. It's hard not to see that as misrepresentation. I am trying to give you the opportunity to clear yourself but it's not going very well for me here. Are you going to answer my question? Also a bonus question, are you having fun here, it doesn't look like you are having fun? Final RFI - this might be how you are, it's possible. Can you please link your previous games at TL Mafia with alignment? I will go have a read through those filters but right now I'm not feeling a reason to move my vote. You voted for me in one post, and claimed that I could be a town player and that we need to look for counterwagons in your very next post. Sounds to me like even you thought your case against me was weak. That's called wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt. If it makes you feel better, you are making me more confident on my scumread every time you post. Now are you going to answer my question? In turn, your innocence fades with each of yours. Why don't you convince me that you are town, and I will answer your question (which you'll have to repost).
Well, jarjar, this is what I've got, it's not really a question, is it. It kinda bugs me that Hier's repeatedly refused to answer questions even when reposted, that's not town helpful at all IMO.
But on the basis that it might be helpful for you also, I can have a stab.
I'm reaching out and trying to engage with as many people as possible. On Day 1 locked townreads are very hard but it's important for me to reach out and try to understand people and see if we can work together. I wouldn't call it town block, but a lot of my initial work goes on understanding tone and getting the feel for how people play - even more important when I have no meta and you are all unknowns IMO.
I've read through the thread to catch up and I've gone through all the filters and posted my thoughts on them (I am feeling better about you BTW)
I've considered whether or not I am tunnelling (I don't think I am!).
I've asked Hier to come back into the thread and talk to us rather than tunnelling on my scumread.
I've asked Hier for alternate evidence as to playstyle so I can triangulate with known town in case he's just rubbing me up the wrong way and it's a playstyle clash.
I've considered the cases for the alternate wagons and thought of alternatives. I just don't like any of them more than where I have my vote right now.
Would anything else be helpful for you? Same question for Hier?
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On February 17 2015 06:35 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:59 Tere wrote:It's not my neck on the chopping block. I guess Hier doesn't want to defend himself It doesn't hurt to answer his stuff first does it?
Done.
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On February 17 2015 06:41 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 06:27 jarjarbinks wrote:
Hier: Who do you think is more likely to turn up scum, Rso or Tere? Is there someone else you think is more likely? I've noted that rsoultin's play could be attributed to a few minor mistakes, all conglomerating to form a potential scum vibe, with a viable agenda. Tere, on the other hand, I don't think I've seen a more obvious scum play.
OMGUS much?
Right, I've played your game, now answer your questions. A full clear read on all participants would be awesome. You have time, and, as you say, it's in the interests of town that you be clear.
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My top scumread besides Hier is zlefin.
He waited till now to vote Hier, and is actually pushing Hier by giving some food for thought. I actually used that post in my case against Hier, but the content itself feels coherent with Hier's thought process.
(post for reference)
On February 16 2015 21:07 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 15:17 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 15:10 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:52 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:47 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 12:51 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote:
rsoultin:
In 3 separate posts you have described your reads to be null towards people that have posted, and despite you not liking the Bridges method, which is fine, said that it is something a town player may suggest thinking it’s good.
Later, after someone mentioned they weren't a fan of my model, you've gone to suggest that I've done nothing to show that I care about finding scum,
all the while you proclaim your reads are null and just ask what other players’ reads are. That is the way mafia players probe the scene to start a bandwagon.
Why else, out of the blue, without any further analysis, would you vote me to be lynched with the phrase “Tell me why I’m wrong, or get onboard.”? No, it is your job to tell everyone the reasons behind your vote, not to tell everyone to get onboard. Okay, in the interest of fairness, if you genuinely believe each of these claims, I can understand your scumread. So I'm going to ask you to actually quote the posts I made that led you to the three bolded conclusions. Preferably in context, because if you misrepresent me I do very much have a tendency to get tunneled xP Once you've done so, I'll answer the last bit. Alright. You went back to my original accusation, to which you have already responded, and are now demanding further explanation when, quite literally, nobody else is asking for it. People have already read my statement and have made up their minds, whatever those may be. You are creating artificial content by searching for an excuse to re-state your innocence, and projecting the appearance of scum hunting at the same time. That would create drivel. You have not been the centre of discussion for several pages, and nobody has been tunnelling you, much less me. Right now it looks like the one doing the tunnelling is you. Look, for now my vote stays where it is. If you post something that changes my mind or a more obvious scum target comes up I promise I will be the first one to let you know. For now let me focus on somebody else, instead of going through your filter again. On February 16 2015 13:31 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 16 2015 07:58 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it.
Didn't you say that you'd just made this method up? And again, you're focusing on the model and not what I'm asking you for. @Trfel - I am not in favor of Bridges. Clearly. Even if Hier would be the next "auto-lynch" and I'd laugh my ass off if he flips scum, caught in his own mechanism Hier, I know a lot of people have been asking you questions. Can you answer this one? Should be easy enough? I've already answered this, and my answer isn't changing. Yes, as the game began. As of right now I do not think Trfel or jarjarbinks are scum, and thus have no intention of voting for them. I don't know if this is just because you're new, but me bringing up your case on me and giving you the opportunity to justify it...how does that come from a scum perspective? As you said, no one seems to really be buying your case, so why would I need to further establish my innocence? For the record, I'd still like this answered, Hier. From a more veteran player I'd be calling to lynch you with fire for most of your posts xP but I recognize that this is a newbie game and you might actually believe what you're saying. I just don't know how far my lexicon can take me reiterating my own accusations, and I don't really see the point when you'll just rebuke it my saying I misinterpreted your quotes, thus creating a nucleus for a completely unnecessary discussion. But if you really really really want I'll do so in the morning. It's getting late here too, and tomorrow is a holiday here, so I'll have time. I would like it if you did that, I find this post of yours feels scummy to me. It feels like a lot of blather, and needlessly fanc y words (admittedly something I tend to do myself), that say very little and amount to a post that doesn't really add anything.
Something tickles me about this post :
On February 17 2015 06:19 zlefin wrote:
disappear? I was shoveling! There's snow out there ya know, in some places.
Lunch is more important than mafia, so go and eat and enjoy!
While true, It is actually the last chance we have at a counterwagon, so it would be the time to review our options. I dislike last minutes shenanigans, so it's now or never.
Admittedly it's scarce, I'm going to filter dive further to see if I get something interesting.
You'd rather me continuing on that train of thought or analyzing the larger picture and exchanges between all the players ?
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We need a wagon. Analyzing the larger picture, unless you have something really good, is probably better suited for the night phase.
Admittedly I've been lurking for the last hour or so, to see what happens when I've stepped back from the thread. Zle is not impressing me, either. If we want a vote switch (and I'm still not sure I do, frankly) I'm willing to switch to him.
Shining's not being here at all today also isn't sitting well with me.
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Shining just unvoted in the voting thread, and I was a doofus and posted there.
BRB while I collect post.
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On February 17 2015 07:10 Tere wrote:
Hi, the Shining, how you doin'?
(I'm reading a game on another site atm but checking back and forth)
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On February 17 2015 07:10 rsoultin wrote:
We need a wagon. Analyzing the larger picture, unless you have something really good, is probably better suited for the night phase.
Admittedly I've been lurking for the last hour or so, to see what happens when I've stepped back from the thread. Zle is not impressing me, either. If we want a vote switch (and I'm still not sure I do, frankly) I'm willing to switch to him.
Shining's not being here at all today also isn't sitting well with me.
Sorry I couldn't impress you, but there really isn't anything else I can do.
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On February 17 2015 07:16 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 07:10 rsoultin wrote:
We need a wagon. Analyzing the larger picture, unless you have something really good, is probably better suited for the night phase.
Admittedly I've been lurking for the last hour or so, to see what happens when I've stepped back from the thread. Zle is not impressing me, either. If we want a vote switch (and I'm still not sure I do, frankly) I'm willing to switch to him.
Shining's not being here at all today also isn't sitting well with me. Sorry I couldn't impress you, but there really isn't anything else I can do.
Zlefin, I don't know, man. Asking who to vote for in thread is weird. It's a newbie game; you have someone to talk to if you're not sure how to play.
You just seem super reluctant about this Hier lynch. If you don't think it's right, then I don't understand what you're doing right now.
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EPT
