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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 20 2015 06:04 Tere wrote: If you really thought I was scum, you wouldn't have even had to say "Trfelscum", you would have just said "Trfel".Lookit all the appeals to emotion there. Hey, Trfelscum, you conceding? Epic incoming WOT once I have put some bold in. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Retract that part of your case immediately or I will have to ask for you to be modkilled. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 20 2015 06:21 Tere wrote: I don't care how relevant it is to your case.Nice try. The Scum coaches are listed right in the intro posts. I have no idea whose your is or even if you have one, I have no idea what they have said to you, and I am not speculating on it. It's perfectly fine to say I respect scum Damdred's play, because he's good. Daam... I will, however, remove it if the GMs ask me too, of course. It's hardly a major part of the case, and I am perfectly happy it stands on its own merits. It says in the rules that there is to be no discussion of coaching. Don't edit it out, that's worse. Just accept that you are not allowed to use that argument. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
1. I'm sorry, I suffer from pride. And I am vain. If I am staying up super late at night and working hard, I want people to know about it. It's not a good attitude, but as much as I want it to not be true, I want credit for my work. It's only human. My end of Night 1 post is fine. Why should I make it exactly clear who I want to lynch when we have an entire 48 hours to prepare for that lynch? That's just stupid to trust my reads that much. Why am I asking what rsoultin thinks of my alignment? It's good to check and make sure rsoultin's thinking makes sense. It's an easy thing for me to do, because I know my alignment, so that eliminates an uncertainty. While I accepted rsoultin as town, you yourself said that you would never be more than 95% sure of anything, and asking for rsoultin's reasoning for her read on me is a fair way to be cautious. 2. And what if I made cases and stuck to them after I saw evidence to the contrary? When I started playing mafia, I thought the same way you show here. Then I learned that almost never is there a case so strong you can just stick with it, no matter what happens. Artanis taught me in Imperial that you need to be fluid with your reads, willing to change them and re-evaluate (yes I know he was scum, he still taught me this). If I wasn't willing to re-evaluate my reads, that might indicate that I was scum. As it is, you can see clear, logical reasons for why I made every single read change. There is no reason not to accept this as town-motivated behavior. As for my reads being apparently hard to find, this isn't really the case. I showed suspicions of The Shining, then ElyAs, then Tere, then Silverarte. Or something like that, I can't remember exactly in what order I did what. Note that I am always uncertain of my reads, this has always been the case. Rsoultin is very clear about this in her goodbye post. As to why I am uncertain about my reads, it's because I have been wrong a lot. Surely no one else is guilty of being wrong. I'm trying to learn from my mistakes, and so far this has told me to doubt myself. What you DO see in my filter is me investigating and evaluating everything, responding to everyone, and most importantly, providing insights, critical thinking, and reads for everyone to see. Do I have to be 100% confident about who is scum when I am constantly filter diving and critically thinking about what people are doing? I don't think so. I'm not going to explain all of my examples. I'll just jump to the "worst" one, my post on zlefin. First of all, I realized something wasn't clear, so I decided to clarify it. And am I allowed to say that I don't have enough information? It would be stupid to always think that I had enough information to decide. I didn't identify his alignment conclusively, but look at what I DID see. I saw that zlefin was showing indications of scumhunting and a town explanation for his behavior, while he was being widely scumread. At the time, most people were scumreading zlefin. Now, zlefin is usually null or higher. I saw this before everyone else did, I went back and explained zlefin's table using his filter, I investigated his behavior and found a town explanation for it. Does that mean he is definite town? Of course not. If I have to dig through his filter to find his reasoning, and if I have to really search to show that he is critically thinking, it would be horrible if I instantly accepted him as town. With my post in mind, I made a few suggestions to him, and he changed his play AND THAT IS WHY HE ISN'T BEING UNANIMOUSLY SCUMREAD RIGHT NOW. 3. I HAD NO CLUE WHAT RSOULTIN WAS DOING WHATSOEVER. I have never ever attempted to find blue roles. Never. I saw something I didn't understand, and I asked about it. Would you expect otherwise? A few posts later, I found out what rsoultin was getting at. I expressed frustrations at myself for drawing attention to it, and I was a bit annoyed that rsoultin brought it up in the first place. This is clearly obvious if you read what actually happened. THERE IS A THING CALLED A PRESSURE PUSH. That was my intention. After rsoultin died, the thread was dead and inactive. Right before that, I expressed how I was not confident in lynching you right at the start of the day. Do you really think I would go back on that, if not for a pressure push? 4. Maybe I attacked your reads because I saw something scummy there? Many of the things you said have looked like scum. They have looked suspicious. Rsoultin agreed with me, as did most of the game. I later overlooked them because I felt that as a whole, your play was towny enough to do so. So you are actually saying that I am scummy for criticizing your reads? I'm not criticizing your reads for the purposes of doing so, I'm criticizing your reads for the purposes of determining your alignment. I thought you could make better reads, I wanted to know if anyone else was having the same suspicions. If I'm not supposed to criticize your reads, then you would be allowed to say whatever you want. This is nonsensical. It's not a scum slip to miss a sentence. A scum slip is when you reveal that you are scum. I misread something. Town can misread things, too. 5. Not even reading this. You suffer from connections to Silverarte too. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
For the majority of the game, town has been following my reads. I've been constantly scumhunting and posting reads. I've been critically analyzing the game. I've showed suspicions of Tere which basically everyone accepted at one point in the game. If you are going to turn on all that work, all of my reads, all of the times when you trusted me, just for this case with barely over two hours until End of Day, and not even give me the fairness of an open mind (not a single person responded to my request for this, btw), then consider yourself at LYLO. You deserve it. Tere, I would be honored that you think this highly of my scum game. Except it's probably more likely that you don't. In reality, I feel horribly insulted that you think I am an easy mislynch. It turns out, you were right. There was no way for you to know that I was going to put in so much effort throughout Day 1 that I would tire myself out and I couldn't focus on the game any more. But you did it anyway. And it worked. Believe me, if this was Day 1, I would never go down like this. I've never played for multiple days of a mafia game, and it shows. My method of playing mafia is to play the game in every waking moment, and it turns out that I can't do that for more than three real-life days. I'm tired. I don't have the focus to play to my normal standards. One more thing of note, I spent some of the earlier part of this afternoon trying to meta read Tere. She said several times that she was her favorite role this game. I found a user named Tere on several mafia sites, and in one of them, the same sentence was included that she posted here, so it's the same person. All of the Teres are the same because they all included a cat as the profile picture. While I was unable to conclusively find Tere stating her favorite role, I did find that multiple times, she said that she really enjoyed playing mafia. Keep this in mind. Does that look like bluehunting? You bet. I don't care, I'm already getting lynched. Just keep this in mind. The best I can do is share my thoughts, so at least you can listen to them once I am dead. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 20 2015 06:46 Tere wrote: Your case on me is really bad and wrong. Everything about it seems like mafia. However, I guess I have generally been okay with your play to this point, and I don't have the will to go through your case and see if it says anything about your alignment.OK, so if you are scumreading me Trfel, you should be totally cool with a gladiate. Let's do this. Town, remember this. Do not lynch Tere just because she was wrong about me. If you are going to lynch Tere, do so because you found evidence that she was scum. Being wrong isn't scummy. Tere, I know you are more than willing to die for being wrong on me, but if you are in fact town, that is game ending. You can't possibly expect me to be town and hold you to this unless I believe 100% that you are scum. I don't. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Trfel's Final Post And you had better listen to it or provide a really good reason not to I'm just going to post this now. I feel no motivation to continue scumhunting at this time. Take a good look at Tere. My initial case on Tere was posted here. Even though I later townread Tere, this case never lost its validity. You can evaluate the strength of the points for yourself, but keep in mind something critical. Tere is an extremely, extremely skilled player. Her actions themselves are generally acceptable and you can find a townie reasoning for it. My point is that the reasoning behind her actions is weak, and her actions seem to have a scum motivation. For example, take a look at how her reads follow mine. I townread zlefin, The Shining, and ElyAs while Tere was scumreading them. Later, Tere's reads changed. Note that I scumread Silverarte while Tere was townreading her, and then Tere's read changed. I'm not going to find the quotes for these, you can do that yourself, but believe me, this is true. If Tere was thinking critically about the game, wouldn't she have been able to make at least one of those reads before I was? Also, notice how she decided to hard push me despite following my reads for the entire game. Look at the way that Tere pushed me. I finally gave her a somewhat confident townread for the first time in the game. This makes it hard for me to reverse it to a scumread, and it makes Tere's push no longer an OMGUS. Then, I said I was going to be busy for much of today before EOD. Then, Tere announced that she was suspicious of me but needed to look through my filter, and then with something like 6-7 hours left until EOD, Tere announced 95+% confidence in my being scum with Silverarte. She finally posted with barely more than two hours left until EOD. Note that this is the same Tere who expressed her desire to get the lynch settled before the last moment. Take a look at the quality of Tere's case. Is she intentionally stretching things, intentionally misrepresenting me? I believe she is. Does that make her mafia? That's up to you. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'll keep watching. If anyone has any specific questions for me, I will answer. Until that, I am done. Tere, I don't swear. Not in real life, and certainly not in a forum mafia game. I'm not going to change that just for you, but it is difficult. I hope you are proud of yourself for mislynching the person whose reads you followed (though I'm sure you won't admit it) the entire game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Again, don't commit to lynching Silverarte after me, either. Take your time and choose the next lynch wisely. And no matter what you decide on Tere, don't listen to her. If her reads are this horrible, she should not be leading town, regardless of her alignment. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I was okay at promoting discussion, and moderating arguments (I know, ironic given recent events). I was wrong, but that's a player skill problem. I don't know how to improve on that. Other than that, the only thing lacking is my style. Apparently people here don't like my style. I'll have to look into fixing that. Though people have always been fine with my style before, I don't see why it's only a problem now. I'm going to post this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=122#2423 This was probably my finest moment in TL Mafia to date, I solidly caught scum in a foolproof case. Read it, so you'll wish I was here when you mislynch again tomorrow. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I could make a really good case on Tere. It wouldn't be hard to do. I am fairly good at making convincing cases. The problem is, just because I see a convincing case on someone doesn't make them scum. Maybe my problem is I am too honest. I'm supposed to lie about how strong I think my reads are. Or maybe the problem is that I'm just terrible at making reads. In that case, you are all even worse for following my reads for a day and a half. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I won't tell you what to do. Just do what you think is right. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 20 2015 07:22 jarjarbinks wrote: Everyone is on me because they refuse to keep an open mind.Just saw the votes. Why is everyone voting Trf? Scum slip? I should read. I have an hour and a half right? Again, people can feel free to ask me questions. I will do my best to answer. Tere, if you ask me a question, no guarantees. Otherwise, I doubt I'm going to do anything else but mope. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 20 2015 07:27 The Shining wrote: No, but it makes sense if you assume that Silverarte has a happy, jovial character.Doesn't seem worried at all about being lynched/mislynched. Just afkd a vote with the caveat that it'll be explained...if she lives. This isn't the post of a town about to get mislynched. My biggest reason to scumread Silverarte is how she doesn't seem to be scumhunting. I only see one instance in her filter where she provides an actual read, on Tere. She seems more focused on conversing with the thread than scumhunting, as if to make it seem like she is doing more than she actually is. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 20 2015 07:33 Tere wrote: It's not an obvious lie. Maybe I'm wrong, oh well. I don't care to go find the quotes in question. Again, if I had any kind of good evidence, I would have posted earlier. I'm just sharing all of my thoughts, just in case someone cares.True facts. I've caught Trfel in an out and out lie about my activity on other sites, and he's obscum, but she's his scum buddy. I'd rather kill him but I'm happy with either of them. As long as we lynch the other one tomorrow. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
That's why if you are scum, I'll be really mad at myself. I had you all caught Night 1, and you know it. If I wanted to, I'm pretty sure I could have pushed for your lynch and gotten it. But I'm willing to re-evaluate and reconsider things. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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