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On January 24 2015 17:25 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 17:12 DarthPunk wrote:
I mean what do you want me to say?
It was bad. He only wanted to lynch JJB who wasn;t getting lynched and then he afk'd Sure. That's what it looks like if you're not paying attention to the context. (And JJB was a viable lynch before the claim, not to mention scumread initially by both you and geript, so it's not a wild Day 1 read. Just putting that out there.) Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 13:18 Breshke wrote:Damdred i had a look at jarjars filter and am probably agreeing with you. On January 17 2015 18:32 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:43 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:41 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:38 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:35 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:32 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
This is the first time I seen him do policy lynching Day 1 so I have no idea if he's town or not based on meta alone. Well I don't think you need to use meta especially on such a new player. To me it seemed like a very townie thing to do even though it was bad and wrong. Which newbie scum player is going to try and policy lynch a vet at the start of the game? Shows no fear of being controversial in the thread. Shit like that rarely happens for new scum players. Sorry to break it to you but Tfrel is not entirely new since he played 3 games with me with 1 of them me being scum and him town and the rest we were both town together so I know his town meta but this is something he never done at the opening of any of the games I played with him. LOL. Sorry to break it to you but 3 games is still new. Meh fair enough. What are your thoughts on Tfrels actions so far? Are you not reading the thread? I just said I thought it was townie. Like we were just talking about that. Ops I was just a little bit to tunneled on replying to you. I do agree his behavior is most likely town to policy lynch a vet player Day 1 but it not exactly good idea to do it (shurgs) This is behavior that doesn't surprise me. I'm using this quote because I feel like it best justifies my argument for why I think he's town. Last game (this is a meta read), LS did things like this and got decimated for it. Almost got killed D1. Got killed D2. I would hope this doesn't happen again. On the argument that LS is acting more "ballsy" and that "ballsy=mafia" I would counter with that LS is learning the game and is more confident. Plus, I felt he was kind of right in sticking up for himself in saying that trfel had playing 3 games and that was less "newby" than people were giving him credit for. IF I had to pick someone to be "the towniest of the town", I would pick LS. He has generated discussion. He is acting similiarly to last game where he was town. Only way to lynch this guy D1 would be to policy lynch him for lack of experience. This read is almost baseless. Amid all the fluff the two reasons for the town read are that he generated discussion and meta. As to the generated discussion part i would say many players have done this. The first two that come to mind are Trfel and GB with both of their openings. However in the spoiler below you can see that Jarjar doesn't think that them making waves with their opening is alignment indicative but thinks the fact that LS has generated discussion is townie. The thought process here doesn't seem to line up. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 18:48 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 15:35 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, I'm assuming that you typed those posts over the course of reading the game? So the first things you said were not influenced on the later things? The rest of this post will be using that assumption. You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. On January 17 2015 13:45 GlowingBear wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..)Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] +For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? I bolded the part (I hope lol) of this quote that I thought summed up my thoughts on Trfel and GlowingBear. Trfel's vote and GlowingBears equally "interesting" opening is probably due to the strategy GlowingBear helped give Trfel. GlowingBear's explanation of Trfel's Vote makes this WIFOM in my eyes. They both started the way they did to make waves and nothing more. Not alignment indicative in my eyes. That being said, I'm more suspicious of GlowingBear over Trfel because of his playing experience. A counterargument to this for Trfel is his "stubbornness" on the bottom of page 8. Strange play if you were just trying to "make waves". He could just feel a necessity to defend himself, but I felt the arguments against his vote were relatively weak at the time. Saying what I said above about GlowingBear, I feel like he might want to try doing something else besides claiming VT at the beginning if that was the "making waves" play that shows balls. Us newbs killed LS for just that last game and we (mostly me) are slow learners. Also secondly on his meta point he has played one game as town and has never seen him as mafia so that isn't really justified either. Hence i think his LS read is fairly scummy Personally not a fan of this read of his and I've already discussed why with him, but that's not the point. This was the only strong scumread in his filter. Come EoD, big hullabaloo with GB and all that noise, you see Breshke attempting to push his scumread: Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 21:24 Breshke wrote:
Yeah its fairly shit isnt it.
##Vote:JJB/b]
I still think this would be the lynch today even thoughpeople familiar with him seem to disagree While still trying to determine the alignment of the main wagon: Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 21:26 Breshke wrote:
Ffs
##Vote:JJB
Currently id also be down for a GB lynch Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 05:23 Breshke wrote:
GB if damdred wadsnt an option who would you go for? Show nested quote +[B]On January 19 2015 06:24 Breshke wrote:
Btw im not intrested in lynching GB today anymore. I really think jarjaf is the way to go There are some other examples of him trying to understand why players were voting for one another, but the point is his play lined up with his reads and he seems to be actively looking for the best lynch and engaging with other players (until he AFKd) Then of course his play picked up in Day 2 and has been much better since, which isn't really that odd a trend given how much of a clusterfuck the first day phase usually is in these games. I don't see someone stubbornly clinging to a read against all evidence, or content to just park a vote for whatever reason. That progression reads townie enough to me to fit in with his improved filter later.
Yeah I agree that the passage of posts you quoted look townie when you put it like that. But honestly those questions don't seem to lead anywhere. Like he doesn;t draw a conclusion from it or at least doesn;t share his conclusions with the thread.
Also GB looked townie enough for a huge wagon on him to completely dissipate within like 15 min or so.
So it's not like Breshke was doing something against thread sentiiment. The place he ended up was bad. Period.
And JJB was NOT a realistic candidate because neither Gewrit nor myself really tried nor wanted to lynch him. And honestly we were going to get the lynch we wanted day one.
And the reason we didn't want to lynch him was because of parallels we drew to Slam at the start.
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On January 24 2015 17:25 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 17:12 DarthPunk wrote:
I mean what do you want me to say?
It was bad. He only wanted to lynch JJB who wasn;t getting lynched and then he afk'd Sure. That's what it looks like if you're not paying attention to the context. (And JJB was a viable lynch before the claim, not to mention scumread initially by both you and geript, so it's not a wild Day 1 read. Just putting that out there.)
This part is untrue as explained in above post. I can see where you are going with this and it does give bresh some cred but not as much as you seem to believe IMO.
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On January 24 2015 17:49 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 17:42 DarthPunk wrote:On January 24 2015 17:25 rsoultin wrote:On January 24 2015 17:12 DarthPunk wrote:
I mean what do you want me to say?
It was bad. He only wanted to lynch JJB who wasn;t getting lynched and then he afk'd Sure. That's what it looks like if you're not paying attention to the context. (And JJB was a viable lynch before the claim, not to mention scumread initially by both you and geript, so it's not a wild Day 1 read. Just putting that out there.) This part is untrue as explained in above post. I can see where you are going with this and it does give bresh some cred but not as much as you seem to believe IMO. All I'm saying is compare what he's doing during the lynch to, say, LoneMeow, and one looks particularly more townie than the other. I can see where Breshke was coming from even if I didn't agree with him. And that slam-lite stuff is just...lol if that's why y'all were townreading him I have no words. Not just meta on a new player, but it wasn't even his meta.
Say you are unfamiliar with something. Well a strategy you can use to understand that something easier is to draw parallels to something as an aide to help you understand that new thing easier and more effectively.
The slam comparison was great IMO.
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Lonemeow.
Who do you want to lynch? Give me three reasons why with evidence to support your assertions.
Who is your largest town read that isn't confirmed town? Give me three reasons why with evidence to support your assertions.
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lonemeow answer my questions.
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On January 24 2015 19:42 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 10:09 Breshke wrote:
A team of DP + 1 that isnt LM is making me really paranoid.
I don't understand DP's play. People have been saying him and LM could be a team even geript who had been townreading him. He then continues to defend LM seemingly without really thinking about it or analyzing it. As town i would think he would be more careful and actually look into it properly as people already think they are a team and think LM is probable scum, even geript.
I get this weird sense that he wants that he wants to look like he is aligned with LM because none really seems to be considering him a possible scum outside of that team. I'm also really kind of worried about DarthPunk. I know I am town and he's distancing himself from the lynch, it just smells scummy especially when the reasons are so weak. But every time I go check on him I can't pin down anything concrete that would give me a real scum read other than this.
@ everyone.
I can't think of any reason to post this as scum and faking this reasoning is actually really improbable IMO.
This seems like townie paranoia in a good way.
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LM if you go afk right now without answering my questions or interacting ITT I will lynch you MOFO.
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On January 24 2015 20:52 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 16:40 DarthPunk wrote:
I just looked and Breshke's day one filter and it looks really bad in hindsight.
Can you point out what in it looks bad to you? I've read it a few times myself and I can't really find any obvious giveaways there. The shadiest thing I see is the "quite convenient" time of his disappearance with vote left on jarjarbinks but that's not really very conclusive.
Small. He is a bit weird about defending trefel. I think he says something like: "DP has a good point about trefel being town" and then Chainsaw defends him by attacking the person arguing against Trefel but like he attacks her arguments rather than say I still think trefel'/s town. To me that looks terrible.
I'll try and find the posts in his filter.
On January 17 2015 13:04 Breshke wrote:Soz had irl shit to do Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. It was to make a meta read on her and WarWaffle I only played 1 game with him and he seemed to be posting the same way he did in the last newbie game when he was Vet. Damdred's entrance post is all he got atm so I need to wait for a meta read on him. Although rsoultins only entrance was to vote you she didn't explain her reasoning for why she votign for you now. rsoultin welcome to the game now why calling BS on Tfrel's post? If it's a joke vote I can maybe understand but I don't see anything totally wrong with his vote except for the fact that gerpit had not posted yet so (shrugs) What's wrong with it is that the Trfel, before a single word was spoken...in fact practically the second the game started...decided to vote for someone because they are "intentionally playing bad". Not only has geript not posted at all in this thread, but Trfel himself has been very effective with quite minimal posts, and is usually very slow to vote or scumread people until he is sure. It may well be a pressure vote (the second the game started!) but not only is it more aggressive than I've come to expect from him, but his explanation is inherently false which he should know based on his own play in the last two games.Thus, BS meter. Why would scum put the spotlight on himself from the get go for no reason?Shit like this always looks bad but the underlying point ends up being that they don't give a fuck what they look like which is a townie trait because scum ALWAYS care what they look like due to their inherent feelings of guilt. Do you think Trfel is scum? Cause he is my biggest town read in the game so far. What does BS meter mean exactly? Why does Trefel's early vote fit with the mafia agenda? rsoultin do you disagree with the bolded question? I couldnt see if you have already answered it or not. I think DP is fairly spot on with trefel and i don't understand where you are coming from at all. Even if trefel is playing different it is possible to do that as town as well. So saying someone is playing different isn't a good enough reason to call them scum.
On January 17 2015 13:24 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 13:17 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 13:04 Breshke wrote:Soz had irl shit to do On January 17 2015 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. It was to make a meta read on her and WarWaffle I only played 1 game with him and he seemed to be posting the same way he did in the last newbie game when he was Vet. Damdred's entrance post is all he got atm so I need to wait for a meta read on him. Although rsoultins only entrance was to vote you she didn't explain her reasoning for why she votign for you now. rsoultin welcome to the game now why calling BS on Tfrel's post? If it's a joke vote I can maybe understand but I don't see anything totally wrong with his vote except for the fact that gerpit had not posted yet so (shrugs) What's wrong with it is that the Trfel, before a single word was spoken...in fact practically the second the game started...decided to vote for someone because they are "intentionally playing bad". Not only has geript not posted at all in this thread, but Trfel himself has been very effective with quite minimal posts, and is usually very slow to vote or scumread people until he is sure. It may well be a pressure vote (the second the game started!) but not only is it more aggressive than I've come to expect from him, but his explanation is inherently false which he should know based on his own play in the last two games.Thus, BS meter. Why would scum put the spotlight on himself from the get go for no reason?Shit like this always looks bad but the underlying point ends up being that they don't give a fuck what they look like which is a townie trait because scum ALWAYS care what they look like due to their inherent feelings of guilt. Do you think Trfel is scum? Cause he is my biggest town read in the game so far. What does BS meter mean exactly? Why does Trefel's early vote fit with the mafia agenda? rsoultin do you disagree with the bolded question? I couldnt see if you have already answered it or not. I think DP is fairly spot on with trefel and i don't understand where you are coming from at all. Even if trefel is playing different it is possible to do that as town as well. So saying someone is playing different isn't a good enough reason to call them scum. Also GB can make that entrance post as a blue ,VT or scum so people looking into that post are going to go nowhere. I am not calling Trfel scum. I am questioning his intentions, because his first explanation did not jive. ^Next time someone asks me this I am going to flat-out quote this post of myself because I'm getting tired of answering it. I do not think there is actually any danger in the particular way he drew attention to himself if he is scum. ^Again, the next time someone asks me this I will quote this post. Sorry i probably could have worked that shit out myself. The point is you "questioning his intentions" doesn't feel like you are trying to work out his alignment. It feels like you are just asking questions so you have a presence in the thread.
Those two posts look pretty bad in hindsight of a scum!trefel flip. Obviously he could be town and just had a solid read or agreed with my posts, but as mafia trying to defend his scum buddy getting behind a townies arguments in order to defend his scum buddy is a very realistic scenario.
there was another post that I didn;t like
On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote:None its shit i know. I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well. Who is your biggest scum right now?
He is confronted about lack of scum reads at the start and Immediately tries to deflect attention away from his own reads by starting a discussion about the questioners reads.
I find that scum are more likely to deflect attention to their positions and town are more likely to seek it.
I don't like the self-deprecation either but that is more a tone thing.
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Yeah I am not going to lynch LM today.
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I am fine with a damdred lynch actually and I think it is the most realistic counterwagon at this point.
##vote: Damdred
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Im going to bed.
Getting up early to be here for the lynch around 2 hours before.
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There is no way geript is scum here.
If Geript is scum this game I will need to re-evaluate the way I play but I don't see it happening.
Like, people are askling me to explain my town read on LM and I can do so whilst explain the way I read things period and perhaps it will help people with geript also.
When I am reading the thread sometimes posts will pop up that are really unlikely to come from scum because the reasoning being used only really makes sense if that person is town.
Case in point:
On January 24 2015 19:42 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2015 10:09 Breshke wrote:
A team of DP + 1 that isnt LM is making me really paranoid.
I don't understand DP's play. People have been saying him and LM could be a team even geript who had been townreading him. He then continues to defend LM seemingly without really thinking about it or analyzing it. As town i would think he would be more careful and actually look into it properly as people already think they are a team and think LM is probable scum, even geript.
I get this weird sense that he wants that he wants to look like he is aligned with LM because none really seems to be considering him a possible scum outside of that team. I'm also really kind of worried about DarthPunk. I know I am town and he's distancing himself from the lynch, it just smells scummy especially when the reasons are so weak. But every time I go check on him I can't pin down anything concrete that would give me a real scum read other than this.
This post here looks really townie to me because it is an open window to a townie mindset.
It shows healthy paranoia and the rationale is coming from a place that only makes sense from a Town!LM perspective.
Then he looks at my filter and decides there is no reason to call me scum.
He is collecting and analyzing information and changing his position based on that.
I like this post so much that as soon as I read it I again decided I didn't want to lynch him.
As for geript, there are countless posts in his filter that make me think he is town, further, I don;tn think scum could or would switch their style up like that mid game from an easier to fake style of posting. ( large constructed posts)
to a harder to fake style (conversational ITT)
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On January 25 2015 05:26 geript wrote:
People don't read me right because they don't bother to think in my experience. It doesn't really require meta. Like you don't even ask, "what's he doing? Is he doing mafia things?" because that's really not how you read me. You look at what I'm thinking about. As mafia, my thoughts never really match; like there's a huge jump and points I have don't flow into each other in a coherent way. Thoughts (and thought process) won't always make sense or seem logical, but there's a clear thought that leads into another thought and so on. Wheels churn and one thing gets me interested in another thing that seems random but it's connected in a very natural way. That's the thing that I can't ever fake as mafia.
I agree with this somewhat.
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On January 24 2015 17:20 geript wrote:
Definitely doesn't feel as good in hindsight. I'll need to go back and look at all my reasons for reading Breschke as town though. I know part of it was newb reasoning.
How did you go with this?
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On January 25 2015 00:33 jarjarbinks wrote:
DP- Can you clarify what exactly makes damdred a better lynch than LM? Was it just because LM started posting last night? Did your spat with Rsoultin make her more scum, or did you not getting anything out of that?
1.) I think LM is more invested in solving the game in his three pages than damdred is in his 10 Pages. I think LM is town and I think Damdred is scum.
2.) LM posting last night and having positive interactions with me in the thread and being able to answer my questions in a way that made sense with evidence absolutely had something to do with it. I liked his posts on damdred and they reminded me that damdred was scummy as shit this game and only getting worse.
3.) Rso. man I dunno. her filter is large and generally makes sense.
But some of her reasoning/ inability to understand/ lack of desire to understand puts me off.
It's like she has an idea of someones alignment or what something means and uses questioning to drive her agenda rather than uncover the information needed to make a read.
Maybe it is a stylistic thing but it weird's me out.
Still have her as town though based off the strength and size of her filter.
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On January 25 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
but from a paranoid perspective him saying his defender appears town while finding a reason to scumread his couterwagon is not terrible play if he's trying to get out of a lynch. It's his play as a whole that I'm reading.
Explain where this is happening. First of all he called me scummy in that post more than he calls me townie. And he calls his only defender scummy! do you see scum ever doing that?!??! That is suicide from someone whose win condition depends on survival. But makes perfect sense from someone whose win condition is predicated on solving the alignments of others!
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Rso vote damdred with me.
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Like I refuse to believe you are all as confident as you make out to be of a scum!LM
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On January 25 2015 06:04 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2015 05:57 DarthPunk wrote:On January 25 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
but from a paranoid perspective him saying his defender appears town while finding a reason to scumread his couterwagon is not terrible play if he's trying to get out of a lynch. It's his play as a whole that I'm reading.
Explain where this is happening. First of all he called me scummy in that post more than he calls me townie. And he calls his only defender scummy! do you see scum ever doing that?!??! That is suicide from someone whose win condition depends on survival. But makes perfect sense from someone whose win condition is predicated on solving the alignments of others! -sighs- You really get worked up over small things. He said he was worried about you. He said what appeared to be distancing from the lynch could be scummy. And then said he can't find scum in your filter. That is not calling you scummy, not in my book. He only said this at all because Breshke asked him. Look at your own quote. I am looking at what he literally said. He literally said something you're doing could be scummy but he doesn't think so because of your filter.
What motive does a mafia have to not hard town read me at that point?
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On January 25 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
I will probably be voting Damdred if LM flips town, but I don't think he will, DP. I'm sorry.
What about shining? Will you lynch shining over LM?
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EPT
