Newbie Mini Mafia LX

On January 04 2015 01:30 -Celestial- wrote:
Full on 150-200 pages, 100-200 references doctoral thesis on the past four years of work.

Which I've had about a month and a half to work on properly exclusively due to having to be in the lab right up until the last minute, and suffered a bereavement part way through that messed me up a bit but I couldn't get an extension for. Yeah...fun. >_>

On January 05 2015 09:03 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay guys here is our agenda for Day 1.

First, We find scum.
Second, We lynch scum.
Third, We find more scum.

Any questions on the agenda?

On January 05 2015 09:12 Half the Sky wrote:
Negative, LS, about as straightforward as this can be. We need to burn scum before they burn us.

On January 05 2015 09:47 ExO_ wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but she just made one post right? And that's your basis for "awfully anxious to make sure we don't think she's scum"? Seems like that's reading into things quite a bit more than is reasonable.

I'm much more highly suspicious of you for trying to through some nonsense suspicion on someone else.

On January 05 2015 10:07 LightningStrike wrote:
Who are the people you played with on other places Rsoultin?

On January 05 2015 09:45 Half the Sky wrote:
LOL Rasputin, I'm not anxious. I'm very determined to find the scummers and sniff them out. Damn straight I'm town, but here's the thing - It's one thing to be town, but it's another to step up and do something about it. And that's what I was driving at.

We have a lot of new players in this game, most have not played a game here, so we definitely need to see how things pan out. If you know any information Rasputin on any of the players you've played with in some of your other non-TL games (since it seems you've recruited a few of them here), give us a shout.

On January 05 2015 10:34 Silverarte wrote:


Also, I'm not sure here. It makes me curious when someone is energetically after scum right at the get go. Could they be? It's possible. I wonder myself

On January 05 2015 10:44 The Shining wrote:
On one hand, I can see why Soultin thought it a bit hasty for HTS to jump into the us vs scum mentality. Not knowing HTS from a hole in the wall also helps to make it a bit more odd for me that she'd jump in and be willing to be associated as an "us" with LS, unless she is in fact VT and believes LS is, too.

On the other hand, Soultin has already let it go and is now moved on to Silver. How am I to know you're not just going to question every one of us in the hopes of a slip or something that gives away a role?

On January 06 2015 11:05 Tubesock wrote:
I would like to talk more about Exo.

I am starting to think he's looking for stuff to nitpick on and throwing mud around to see what sticks. Take the scum read on me and LS were based largely on lack of confidence in D1 reads. Yet, most the thread has mentioned or alluded to the reality that D1 reads are anything but easy. Also in something like 4 of his posts, they each have a new scum read, there doesn't seem much effort to mature them seems more casting a wide net as it were.

On January 06 2015 11:15 Tubesock wrote:
Rsoultin, I'd agree with you on Shining, if this were day 2 or 3, it's just half way in to day 1 there really isn't much content here. We are still on page 13, if this were Carol it would be like 40.

I think the real juice will come tomorrow, when people get more pressure to actually find people to vote. Is the Shining your vote if we had to have it in a couple hours vs tomorrow?

On January 06 2015 11:22 Tubesock wrote:
I'd probably vote LightningStrike. I don't think he's done much so far. I'm looking at Celeste and Oxe to see if their arguments line up and look fishy. No one else is really catching my eye

On January 05 2015 23:50 LightningStrike wrote:
My new player reads I never played with before since you asked for them HTS

-Celestial-: Town since he gave a lot of good points on why his reads were they were the way they were although he did make a mistake on editing and hoping he not modkilled.


Gumdrop: I need some more posts to figure him out.


Jarjarbinks: Need more posts from him but he got some excuses for why he so little posts so far. I hope he feels better and can play like like his brother!


The Shining: Town for now since she asking some questions and looks like she trying to figure this game out but again I need more posts from him to confirm my thoughts of him being town.


Silverate: I need more posts from her to determine her alignment.


ExO_: Need more posts from because other than the nitpicking on your post there is nothing for me to look at


TheWarWaffle: Town he at least tried to break down the stuff in your post and explain in his mine what the stuff means and asking questions about it. I hope he post more so I can confirm my read on him!

On January 06 2015 12:04 jarjarbinks wrote:
My piggyback scumread! I know I am completely worthless day 1.

I've only played with Shining once before, but I would agree with Rsoultin on the Shining vote solely on his behavior in our last game when he was mafia in the early days of the game. She did the same thing, scumreading most people that scumread her each time. It is possible that she just always does that (I'm an easy target if you want to fire back Shining!), but I would say that the chances she's scum are higher than the solid 27% probability for the rest of ya'll.

Is it ok to pass judgement based on previous games?

What is blue hunting?

Sorry I called you a girl LS. You're last post had 0 scumreads. If you were to pick someone to lynch as of now who would it be?

On January 06 2015 12:12 LightningStrike wrote:

I ,3 you too rsoultin also what is your thought my rather large post earlier?

On January 06 2015 16:33 The Shining wrote:
On my way to bed and I'm in the process of catching up with everything, I'll elaborate on more first thing in the morning but I had to clarify this. I wasn't sheeping ExO, just shifting my focus from HTS to ExO. I feel that I'm right in my reasoning against him and I was pointing out the possible banding together between him and HTS by him offering a free town read, something he himself said mafia likes to do.

On January 07 2015 10:05 LightningStrike wrote:
Honestly I didn't believe his blue claim tbh because he didn't say what role he was but I do agree yes maybe soft claiming was the best option for vet but when people are voting you for a lynching? You must claim that how I feel about blue roles when being lynched.

On January 07 2015 07:34 -Celestial- wrote:


Softclaiming a power role about an hour and a half before...I think most of the rest of us playing this game are going to need a bit more than that to be honest.

I'm open to be convinced to get onto one of the main bandwagons. I remain skeptical of LS and find jarjar to be very scummy but jarjar doesn't look like he'll get the votes and I'm not totally convinced that LS is a good day 1 lynch even if I do find his posts suspicious.

So I'm open to being convinced to my vote to help swing things, but I'm not going to do it unless people have convincing arguments one way or another. And I don't see a convincing argument to help try to get the lynch off you.

On January 07 2015 10:53 -Celestial- wrote:



I think I've already explained all of this really across my posts before the vote but alright.

WW's claim was a random, single post, drive-by claim. It was extremely unconvincing, at least I wasn't convinced. Should I just take that on faith more? In any case I wasn't particularly happy about the way it was going but by that time it was far too late to do anything other than vote WW, vote LS or vote Shining to have an impact.

I was scumreading LS until he provided evidence against it. I still am suspicious of LS but he convinced me to change my vote away earlier on the basis that it was a bad D1 decision and there was not enough evidence to justify to myself to change it back.

Shining I said quote "Could definitely be convinced for a D2 lynch here" after you started my mind thinking about him being scum, you can check my major read post from today for proof. I wasn't saying he was a lock-in for a D2 lynch, I was saying he was a possible good candidate to look at because at that point it looked like LS was taking a lot of the heat for D1.
Basically the reason why not D1 is because my impression at that time was that nobody had enough of a feeling to commit to that lynch and personally I wanted to see more evidence before I decided or started trying to convince people to get on that wagon anyway. Nothing I saw since then convinced me that Shining was scum, so I couldn't in good faith vote there. If you or anyone else had seen something more convincing from Shining then I might well have changed my vote there, but the follow-up on the accusations wasn't enough and as it was everyone got rolling on the WW train in the end.


I felt it best to be consistent to my reads rather than go with something I didn't feel was honest. Perhaps that's not the best way to play but I feel happier about making my own decision there than simply bandwagoning what was potentially one bad call over another bad call.

On January 07 2015 11:05 LightningStrike wrote:

Well what else I was suppose to do when my role pm was Detective and my coach in that game clarified it was Cop at the time but I couldn't really say it was my coach who told me it was Cop and in the thread I did ask for BH the host of the game to clarified to me if Detective was Cop in the thread and told them what BH told me but they simply didn't believe me because of the counter claim by KSC that's all.
Also my read on Shining is Null leaning scum as I didn't like his case on ExO and some people already told him that ExO wasn't going to get lynched Day 1 but he did switch TheWarWaffle too after that. Also his post about ExO was kind of odd that he did sheep a read on him yet scum read him and seemed like he was talking nonsense on it.

On January 07 2015 11:16 LightningStrike wrote:

I thought that Shining didn't have a lot votes at the time and I tunneled to hard on TWW I'm sorry I will do better on Day 2 and Day 3 if I'm alive at that part of the I promise!

On January 07 2015 11:37 -Celestial- wrote:
He should have been given the benefit of the doubt on a three line post saying he's blue? Off the back of a bunch of suspicious posts? I'm really not sure what I can say here to be honest except that's just not how I felt when I saw it.

Yes, I threw my vote away. I own up to that and I'm sorry to WW for my part, small as it was, in the mislynch. I can't say I'm particularly happy about it but there it is and I'm really not sure what the you want from me here. I've already explained my reasoning, such as it is. I don't have much more I can really say.


And with all due respect you're the person who started the train on WW in the first place. So if we're asking questions here about voting motivations then please explain these posts of yours:



You actively stated you preferred the Shining lynch over the WW one and your vote on WW was initially just pure pressure. But still remained on WW saying that you wouldn't be around at EoD to change it. Why? Why not go for the Shining vote that you were so convinced of? There were people who actually voted for WW around between his claim and the EoD that didn't change their votes. What of them?

In essence why are you trying to throw blame around so much on a lynch you actively participated in, despite claiming that someone else was more desirable as a lynch for you? I can't say I'm proud of myself for letting a blue get killed, but you deliberately voted for the poor guy, despite explicitly saying someone else was a better target.

On January 07 2015 11:54 Trfel wrote:
Yeah, I'm sorry about the lynch. My bad.

We were pretty unlucky that I finished my vote-switch post and posted it three minutes after rsoultin left. And I really lack experience, so I didn't try to get people to switch after the roleclaim. Sorry.

On January 07 2015 12:07 LightningStrike wrote:
Rsoultin I up for a Shining lynch tomorrow and hopefully I can deal with my IRL drama with my Mom having to go to the ER for overnight and me staying home because someone needed to take care of the house. I guess this what happens when I emotionally drained.

On January 07 2015 12:32 -Celestial- wrote:


Posting from bed on phone so please excuse spelling:

Except...you know...its not exactly convincing when you're staying on WW like that. So no, I can't say I read it that way at all. Frankly because of your lack of switch meant my read of your case was "this guy looks really suspicious but I still think WW is the best lynch". You apparently couldn't even convince yourself enough to switch to Shining. If you'd actually switched I might have switched because I'd have taken your case more seriously.

You want to lynch Shining tomorrow? Alright, we can look at doing that, just lay out your case in summary. I was never a big fan of Shining's posts here anyway, feels scummy; and a lot of your comments earlier were actually decent and on-point and reasonably convincing, especially looking back now. The problem for me is that they came across as very insincere at the time because you flat out were not backing them up with action by changing your vote.

On January 07 2015 12:35 -Celestial- wrote:


...I'm not even saying that. Where am I saying that? Or giving the impression I'm saying that?

I'm actually genuinely confused here. I have NO idea where you're getting that one from aside from my very, very early post about your very first entry to the game.

On January 07 2015 11:37 -Celestial- wrote:
He should have been given the benefit of the doubt on a three line post saying he's blue? Off the back of a bunch of suspicious posts? I'm really not sure what I can say here to be honest except that's just not how I felt when I saw it.

Yes, I threw my vote away. I own up to that and I'm sorry to WW for my part, small as it was, in the mislynch. I can't say I'm particularly happy about it but there it is and I'm really not sure what the you want from me here. I've already explained my reasoning, such as it is. I don't have much more I can really say.


And with all due respect you're the person who started the train on WW in the first place. So if we're asking questions here about voting motivations then please explain these posts of yours:



You actively stated you preferred the Shining lynch over the WW one and your vote on WW was initially just pure pressure. But still remained on WW saying that you wouldn't be around at EoD to change it. Why? Why not go for the Shining vote that you were so convinced of? There were people who actually voted for WW around between his claim and the EoD that didn't change their votes. What of them?

In essence why are you trying to throw blame around so much on a lynch you actively participated in, despite claiming that someone else was more desirable as a lynch for you? I can't say I'm proud of myself for letting a blue get killed, but you deliberately voted for the poor guy, despite explicitly saying someone else was a better target.

On January 07 2015 16:02 jarjarbinks wrote:
I think some people have some questions to answer for:

I will focus on the 5 who voted for Warwaffle, because you know, they like decided to kill a power role towny AFTER he claimed power role. On a side note revealing the size of my brain, I originally was 80% sure you shouldn’t kill someone who claims a power role and wait at least 1 day, but I wasn’t 100% sure. All this claiming stuff is somehow going over my head.

Rsoultin- The mastermind behind the plot! What a surprise! I feel like you literally kill all town in every game lol You have like the worst track record! There should be a new role specifically created for you, much like the vigilante except you just convince everyone to kill town every day. And your role never wins. I will get off that pointless rant and start accusing. I’m just putting you as mafia in my accusations for now, since you have killed more town than mafia has at this point. IF you were playing mafia, in the morning of the death (no I will not grab quotes, feel free to ask me why if you want some excuses. I also didn’t edit, same story), you pick a towny that you know is an easy target. Everyone hates the inactives on this thread, and warwaffle hasn’t posted much of value despite claiming to know things. There were other logical reasons? I don’t remember. Anyways, sounds like an easy enough target. Probably the desperate townies who are being harassed will cling to a logical argument. You check back later and post some more things about shining, but keep your vote on warwaffle. This is smart so are perceived as the main driver on a towny death (day 1 or no this is not the best). You mention not being around at EOD which is also smart. You previously mentioned you were going to be very close to missing EOD before, this will affirm. Maybe you can get “lucky” and change your vote if you see a better target later. You DO get to see the votes before EOD. The waffle train struck gold for you and you have a great excuse! People will treat you like silverarte when vote analyzing. You casually wait a decent amount of time, 40 ish minutes sounds perfect! You rant and rage, show as much indignation as possible. You go off on LS and celestial mostly. Celestial is a fantastic target because he wasted his vote. LS already looks suspicious and voted for waffle. Plus LS looks bad for the last game you guys played together. Did you rant on tube? You should definitely rant on tube if you didn’t, I want to. You will look tomorrow to find a dumb towny who did make a decent vote and go on them (there was a lot of us. I honestly hate my own vote and I didn’t even vote waffle), which will divert attention from you as you look for a good nightkill.

Questions for you:
1. What were you doing around 6 central time? Eating Dinner? Working? I know you work strange hours sometimes. Your phone is better than mine so unless you were working I’m not sure what you were doing.
2. Why didn’t you switch your vote to shining at 4 your time? You like diversifying the votes so you can switch later. You would risk vote wasting, but you know if you put your mind to it you could have convinced some of us to follow suit.
3. You mentioned anger at TS, Celestial, and Shining for voting waffle. No tube? Silver has a good excuse, so I can see less indignation there.
4. If you had to pick 2 people on the waffle train that were mafia, who would they be? Let’s say you have to lynch one right now. Who is that?

Ok that was long… I’ll do the other ones tomorrow, its past my bedtime and I don’t want to be sick! O crap, more excuses. Sorry guys.

On January 07 2015 22:56 LightningStrike wrote:
I just woke up and my Mom was already home and it turns out Diabetes is a bitch sometimes so at least she is going to be fine just need her to take the meds the ER gave her. I not as drained anymore and I ready to lynch Shining at the start of the day.

On January 08 2015 09:19 jarjarbinks wrote:
You DO get to see the votes before EOD.

On January 07 2015 06:36 The_Templar wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count

jarjarbinks (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
LightningStrike (3): ExO_, -Celestial-, Trfel, TheWarWaffle
Gumdrop (0): Tubesock
TheWarWaffle (4): rsoultin, LightningStrike, Silverarte, Tubesock
Tubesock (0): TheWarWaffle
ExO_ (1): Gumdrop
The Shining (1): Half the Sky

Not Voting (2): The Shining, jarjarbink

Currently, TheWarWaffle is set to be lynched. until deadline.

On January 07 2015 02:14 jarjarbinks wrote:
List of Scum:
#1: Shining
#2: Tube
#3: Silver
#4: Waffle
#5: LS

On January 07 2015 08:51 jarjarbinks wrote:
I don't know what to think about warwaffle. I'm guessing he's lying about the power role.

Its enough to keep my from voting for him though.

My vote is for the shining. And I already did It in the thread. Still suspicious enough to pick him in my top three and give another option to others who also were suspicious of him (sorry about the "she's" before)

On January 08 2015 07:31 The Shining wrote:



I have already explained my train of thought on ExO. Let's remember that ExO had WW as a scumread, as well. Where's he been since the flip?

My reasoning wasn't so much as WW being scum as the fact that right I after I voted Exo, Jar Jar voted me. That put me up to 3 with WW's 4. WW's drive-by softclaim was something I did NOT want to lynch for. My options would've been vote LS to tie and WW dies, anyway. Leave my wasted vote on ExO and WW dies, anyway. As Mafia, if I thought WW was dying anyway, why would I add myself to the wagon? Once Jar Jar pushed me to 3, I was afraid one of the WW or LS votes would end up on me. Yes, I'm admitting I voted to counter my wagon. In my eyes, it makes more sense for me to save who I know is town rather than a softclaim that I had no faith in. Tube's tunneling on WW and pushing me towards him right before EoD didn't help me stick to my guns on being against WW's lynch, either.

After WW flipping blue, I have to say I don't have much faith in LS being Town. I mentioned before that I wasn't a fan of the "let's all be friends, we're all town" mentality. It wasn't until the thread was given meta examples of LS's past town play that I started reading LS as null, slightly town. After the flip and deciding to re-read LS's posts, this was a little troubling to me.

On January 07 2015 09:00 The Shining wrote:
After re-reading, I felt less and less certain that WW's lurking and big post was helpful to town and more certain that that post, along with the last post claiming a blue role, was there just to mislead. Changed my vote in voting thread from ExO to WW.

On January 08 2015 10:49 rsoultin wrote:
Yeah...that was the feel I was getting.

I really don't like the lying thing. It rubs me the wrong way. People being too concerned about being "consistent" (yes Celeste, that's at you, though damn these newbie games and figuring out what is noob and what is scum) and how their actions appear to others rubs me wrong.

Meh. I'll have to think on you, Shining.

You seemed very wishy-washy at the beginning, plus all the excuses, especially with your first two posts. The analysis seemed like a place holder with no conclusion. Something to look busy without committing.

Can you please explain to me how Celestial's explanation of blue-hunting lines up with what you thought I was doing, and link the post from Silver that made you change your mind?

I don't like LS and JarJar is bugging me because his giant screamy post (apart from being directed at me, which is convenient actually since I know him best) is just way out-of-character for him. My brother isn't terribly aggressive normally, especially with such obvious bias and leading words meant to make you form your opinion the way he wants. But, eh, LS...he's hard for me to read cause he gets scumread every single game, you know? Meh.

On January 08 2015 10:41 jarjarbinks wrote:


Kinda being a donkey here bro. Misquoting yourself now?



The votecount WHICH I SAW BEFORE EOD JUST AS BOLDED ABOVE when I was in the thread and Trfel was saying he didn't want to lynch Shining. Your turn to answer questions.



Did this list of reads change prior to the end of the vote? You don't even mention LS leading up to the lynch but now you're going on about it.



Why wait so long to cast your vote? 9 minutes before the deadline? You were in and out of the thread throughout the day. You're clever enough to vote for Shining, force him to switch to the WW vote, and come out looking rosy because you didn't vote for the blue-claimed townie.

On January 08 2015 08:10 Gumdrop wrote:


By pissing away my vote, I effectively voted for the lead. The lead for the entire time was WarWaffle.

When he declared his role... it made things troublesome. Was he mafia that was trying to save his own hide? Was he actually a powerful role? Everything reeked of desperation and it wouldn't matter if he was scum or town, he would have done the exact same things to try to save himself from being lynched.

I didn't agree with some of his thoughts on his only large scale analysis of peoples alignments, but thats neither here nor there now.

I was paralyzed with inaction, because I didn't know what to do and none of the options seemed like good ones. Taking a look at the votes, and based off the information on how tie votes are decided that Trfel gave us, it would have taken at least two people to make a not WarWaffle lynch happen.

Looking at the vote tallies from yesterday though, the last second vote changes interest me more than anything else.

JarJar and Trfel, neither one of you really explained why you swapped over to join the Shinings lynch mob. You both just gave vague explanations. Can you explain further please?

On January 08 2015 14:28 Half the Sky wrote:


Hey, here, for a little bit. Your second question, I am trying to think through.

If WW claimed VT, that's poor because that helps scum narrow down potential power roles. Here I can see any town being arsed.

But as a PR, from a fellow town perspective, you should be claiming when you're well on your way to a lynch. I did that in Carol, granted I hardclaimed in that one, but the point stands. People removed their votes off me or moved it to Holyflare, the alternative target at that time.

Maybe these guys (in error) assumed that others would remove their votes if they hard claimed? There were a few who said they didn't believe him because it was a softclaim. ExO doesn't say either way from reading his filter and Celestial complained but I cannot find a reason from him either, not that I can see.

Soft claim vs hard claim I can understand the debate, although you clarified how his call was appropriate post-lynch for his specific role.

I could see someone assuming a blue role claiming too prematurely, like say D1, getting themselves killed, but this lad did not hard claim. Cops in particular are discouraged from claiming D1, but WW was obviously not cop.

On January 08 2015 14:33 ExO_ wrote:



I'm mad at WW for bad play. He has a blue role. but he's inactive as hell, and when he does post his reads are bad and filled with wrong information. Then he soft claims blue when he's about to die. I know I'd try to fake claim if I was a mafia and looking like the inevitable lynch, and that's what this looked like to me.

So I'm mad that an important town player couldn't take the time to play the game, potentially fucking the rest of us over. I didn't switch my vote over to him because I didn't need to. But I was around at EoD and you better believe I was watching for last second shenanigans. If I saw people moving votes at the last second, I would've jumped on to the WW train.

I still believe LS was the better vote. I still believe LS is scum now. But the case on WW was decent in my opinion.

On December 28 2014 05:40 kitaman27 wrote:
[center]24 Mafia

Setup Information:
This is a semi-open set-up meaning that while all of the roles possible will be displayed the number of each role in game is unknown. All roles are not guaranteed to be present. The mafia team has one factional kp per night that cannot be roleblocked.

On January 09 2015 10:35 -Celestial- wrote:
Also...of course...nothing personal rsoultin. Its just how I've seen your overall posts go. I know we've discussed it in bits and pieces over time but as a whole I'm still suspicious.


Anyway, goodnight.

On January 09 2015 11:57 Tubesock wrote:
Bah I can't read. You're asking at eod. I was town reading Celestial then as we had an exchange when he said he was going to jarjar. Jar being my listed #2, I didn't really care about it.

On January 09 2015 12:15 Half the Sky wrote:


The only question I have at this point in time for you is to confirm your scumreads and/or nulls. You said a number of people were being scummy in a recent post. I know you are scumreading Celestial and LS possibly but whom else?

Tonight I am able to stay up a bit late until 4am, or another 45 mins, so if either you have something for me, please let me know. I'm off work tomorrow thank goodness.

On January 10 2015 04:54 LightningStrike wrote:

Then look at it after I get lynched then? Also lynch Celestial after lynching me after I flipped as town please?

On January 07 2015 02:02 jarjarbinks wrote:
Singular posts that are suspicious to me (Ignore my lack of knowledge on the English language if you can!)-

[...]

Celestial-Exo: Small hints of collaboration. If I was mafia, I think the best person to estabilish my credibility as town would be Celestial. Have generally agreed with all of their posts. Both went after LS.

[...]

People I’m generally scared of:

Celestial- Established great credibility day 1. Your writing style is very similar to a very established economist professor’s. If I was good at this game and was mafia, establishing credibility would be a top priority.

[...]

People I think are least scummy:

[...]

Exo- great prodder early day and seems to be flinging scum everywhere. I would try to do this as scum (I think I’d have a better shot at this over establishing credibility lol). I also like that he tried to generate others to talk more (I’m such a hypocrite). Plus, people have been suspicious of him. That makes me a little more at ease about not being suspicious of him just in case he truly is mafia.

On January 06 2015 23:34 LightningStrike wrote:
Good morning guys I just woke up. After reading the game that JarJar linked me Shining is just as lurky this game as in that game but that game in general was inactive so hard to say if it's meta or not.

[...]

Also since ExO and -Celestial- still think I'm scum but I think their inexperience with playing with me seems to show here but I will claim if I have to.

On January 07 2015 04:31 ExO_ wrote:
Okay finished reading. some quick thoughts:

[...]

Moving on to LS however: I think my original reasoning on him still holds. He's still playing this "oh I can't accuse anybody game, I'm unsure about every scum read" game. He asks questions, but I don't think he's getting valuable information out of people. He's polite and friendly sure. The kinda guy you want to like. But mafia isn't about being liked. It's not about lynching the rude people. It's about finding and lynching the scum. I don't think LS cares about that, he cares about slipping by. I think he's going to try a fake blue-claim if he gets a lot of pressure on him.

There's my initial thoughts. There's a lot of stuff I need to look at more in depth, but after my catch-up read through I still think LS is our best lynch. Just talking a lot is not a good reason to let somebody slip by, and I highly disagree with the meta-(this is how he played town in his other game)-reads. We need to focus on this game here.

If people think there is a better case than LS, please present it to me again. Or if theres a reason I should not be voting him today that I've missed. Because so far I don't see it.

[...]

On January 10 2015 16:26 Half the Sky wrote:
Since a few of you are talking mechanics, I'm going to weigh in simply -



I disagree with this (bolded words) because scum always want to maximise their shot for an NK. The medic by default cuts into that by 1/x, x being the current nr of players.

In TL games, medics cannot save themselves. Therefore, a shot on claimed medic will be 100%. Blues are a larger threat to scum getting closer to late game.

Up to lynch, there has been no counterclaim. Therefore, regardless of setup, if Celestial lives tonight, he goes tomorrow, end of, simple as.

On January 10 2015 08:46 ExO_ wrote:
I am. and at least for me, I think it's a sign he's scum.

If he flips scum it'll be easy to see that scum all bussed him because they were afraid. And since he had a bit of attention on day 1 as well, I think it'll be easy to work out who might be scum.

Compare this to day 1, in which we lynched a town. The votes where everywhere. It'd be surprising to me if all the mafia ended up on the same town wagon.


On the other hand, if he flips town then this gets really hard. it could be that LS has had too much momentum on him all of day 2, but when Tube and I were both pushing Celestial nobody else even tried to get another wagon going, or jumped on Celestial....which now that I think about it might be revealing.

Still, we'll have a much better idea in 15 minutes.

On January 11 2015 03:21 Half the Sky wrote:


I'm not talking about blocking. I'm talking about the fact that if any medic requests a save on Joe Smith, and Joe Smith still dies, that he can deduce or infer that he has been roleblocked because his/her save obvious didn't go through.

On January 07 2015 22:05 jarjarbinks wrote:
No more snow days for me. Ill be back from work 2200 hopefully will have time to post before possible death. Glhf till then.

On January 07 2015 05:07 ExO_ wrote:


Correct me if I'm wrong but is there any example of his mafia play? If there isn't any evidence to show that he'd act differently as scum, then I think the town-meta-read on him is garbage. And even if there is, his play here in this game seems scummish to me. It doesn't matter if in a previous game similar play from him was town. It might if I was on the fence with him, but I'm not.

Which is why I think he IS the day 1 mafia lynch. I think he's trying to be active enough so that we have to say "He's a bad day 1 lynch." Compared to the other candidates (Shining/JarJar/WW) I think he's the best bet. I believe it strongly enough that I'm not willing to concede the vote for now, subsequently voting for one of the others.

On January 11 2015 05:54 ExO_ wrote:
Computer is finally working again. I've been working on it since 9am.

I'm not sure what exactly rsoultin is trying to say here. That somehow I wasn't scum hunting? I feel like I'm one of the few in the thread that's at least tried. For all the talk, I pushed Celestial day 2, because I thought his play was scummy. Hell he might be scum now. I'm not 100% sold on his doc claim. But what did everybody else besides tubesock do? Just stuck on LS.

I scumread LS on day 1. I thought WW was kinda scummy too. And based on his play I feel like the lynch on WW was justified. For a blue town role, WW played like garbage. I think the same of LS, for a town role he played very poorly. And I can tell you since I scum read LS on day 1, it's very easy for me to stay on him day 2. I have an ego, I want to be right and be able to say "check out how good I am, I picked him out on day1!". But it didn't go down like that.

That being said, you've gotta be kidding me. I don't switch off of the votes day 1 because it wasn't necessary. I think I would've preferred LS lynch day 1, but the WW lynch made sense to me. And as I've said previously, I would've switched to WW if vote shenanigans went down at the last second.

My read on LS was wrong. But at least I'm trying to scum read people. And I'm trying hard not to tunnel vision on the first scum read I make.

If you have questions for me ask. I'll do my best to explain anything I've said. I can tell you for sure though I am not scum, and I think my play this game shows that.

On January 11 2015 03:23 rsoultin wrote:


Where were you going with this? You apparently had an idea that you failed to address after flip even though LS did in fact flip town. But all you wanted to talk about was game mechanics?

On January 09 2015 08:03 ExO_ wrote:


It did to a degree. Let me ask you another question. Trfel said he didn't like any of the lynches. Having reread his filter a couple times, I found something to be odd. Before the it became apparent that WW or LS or Shining was likely to die, there was only one person whoose opening post he specifically mentions as being off. He never got to really expand on it, but can you guess who it is?

On January 08 2015 14:33 ExO_ wrote:



I'm mad at WW for bad play. He has a blue role. but he's inactive as hell, and when he does post his reads are bad and filled with wrong information. Then he soft claims blue when he's about to die. I know I'd try to fake claim if I was a mafia and looking like the inevitable lynch, and that's what this looked like to me.

So I'm mad that an important town player couldn't take the time to play the game, potentially fucking the rest of us over. I didn't switch my vote over to him because I didn't need to. But I was around at EoD and you better believe I was watching for last second shenanigans. If I saw people moving votes at the last second, I would've jumped on to the WW train.

I still believe LS was the better vote. I still believe LS is scum now. But the case on WW was decent in my opinion.

On January 11 2015 07:38 ExO_ wrote:


Nobody tried to disturb the status quo, meaning I might've been on the wrong track about LS. However I really did think LS was going to flip scum, and that mafia were heavily bussing.

On January 07 2015 06:59 ExO_ wrote:


I'm not sure I agree that it's a policy lynch. Go read his big read post. None of it makes any sense whatsoever. Its blatantly wrong about a lot of players thus far. Read it and then come back and say it's still just a policy lynch.

On January 11 2015 08:21 ExO_ wrote:


What I really thought was going to happen, is LS flips scum. This would've meant mafia bussed him heavily. Then we could've gone back and looked at where the votes ended day 1 and figured out who was bussing.

On day 1 it looks like the mafia spread their votes out, then day 2 piled them all on the same target. I thought based on day 1, mafia would try to spread their votes out again, and we'd only see a pileup like that if they were bussing.

On January 10 2015 08:46 ExO_ wrote:

[...]

On the other hand, if he flips town then this gets really hard. it could be that LS has had too much momentum on him all of day 2, but when Tube and I were both pushing Celestial nobody else even tried to get another wagon going, or jumped on Celestial....which now that I think about it might be revealing.

Still, we'll have a much better idea in 15 minutes.

On January 13 2015 12:01 -Celestial- wrote:
Some thoughts from my perspective. Bloody hard to play as mafia side in your very first game of forum mafia.

Anyway...I have to give a shoutout to rsoultin. You were the only person I actually felt pressured on my actual scum moves from. I wasn't lying in that mafia QT...everything I did D1 was basically 100% what I'd have done as town; although admittedly I probably was slightly less likely to move off the JJB vote in response to the blue claim than I would have otherwise been (that being said...I'm not sure I'd have changed or not even so, I was very much with LS on that point in that it just didn't feel right). Ok...it might not have been very GOOD town play but I can honestly say its pretty much what I would have done for my first game. Frankly I had zero reason for not playing as I would have played as town because honestly everyone seemed on the wrong tracks D1.

For D2 rsoultin put some nice pressure on me to the point where I genuinely felt threatened, all credit to you there. That was kinda scary. What totally threw my game and made me want to give up though was the bloody six-hour inquisition I was later subjected to. It felt meaningless as it felt like 95% of what I was being called out on was stuff that I would have done whether mafia OR town (because basically all of my D1 filter is what I'd have said as town). After that point I literally didn't give a damn about the game and I flat out wanted out. I was on the point of getting myself modkilled just to get away. I was pissed off and utterly fed up of playing. On top of the being called out for what I'd do as town thing there was the outright lies about my post progression. That was unbelievably frustrating and frankly I didn't want to play anymore. Though I eventually decided that I wasn't going to throw HtS under the bus like that by just outright giving up but I didn't have an out, so I thought about how to do damage.

Honestly without HtS there I WOULD have forfeited so thanks. Sincerely.

I'd been toying a little in the mafia QT with the idea of claiming a role (I mention claiming doc at 436 and cop at 462) but nothing serious. At that point I was just looking to throw out whatever I could to do as much damage as possible since the train felt fairly solid. Then Geript gave me the push to claim doc at 481 and...well the rest is history. It kinda blew the game open.

Honestly I wasn't expecting anything at all to come from that claim and I was exhausted. I was surprised that I'd apparently survived the train on D2, so I figured I'd just stick to posting like I was sulking. It gave me a reason for just keeping the hell out of the thread honestly, even if it made me look terrible. I figured I wouldn't last another day either way plus everyone had massive suspicion on me so absolutely everything I posted wouldn't be believed except to analyse for clues for mafia. Basically I was fatalistic...I knew I'd flip red on D3 and frankly it seemed an auto-lynch so I wanted to absolutely minimise the damage that flip would do by just basically not talking. I think we'd discussed as an outside possibility the idea of playing it as "mafia left me alive because they can just nullify me" but I honestly didn't believe that was a saving move. I was 100% dead as far as I could see. But as time went on everyone got on the "lets not lynch him D3 because its what the mafia would want!" train and I absolutely wasn't going to oppose that but I was pretty blown away that was actually happening.

It honestly still felt I was under a serious risk of a last minute train right up to the end. With that in mind I decided to just stay quiet, post minimally, and with my last set of reads (because I had to post SOMETHING) I figured that the best play was to vote on Shining whilst citing JJB as town. Doing those pretty heavily implicates JJB as mafia because people think I'm mafia and it just comes across as sloppy and desperate mafia play to anyone watching me, when in reality I was just trying to keep anyone from deciding to train on me (since by this point I'd pretty much outed myself, but nobody outright decided to lynchtrain me for it apparently). Ultimately though I felt it was a good setup if the game went further. By voting for Shining after wasting a vote on JJB D1 I tried to make JJB look really bad, so even if everyone decided last minute to switch and string me up, I might at least take JJB down the day after with me.

I absolutely should have been lynched D3 to be honest. No question. I'm actually pretty blown away that I survived.


Oh and a quick note to geript's analysis:
@geript: I put a reasoning down for a save on rsoultin because according to the role descriptions people are not informed if they're RBd. So I felt like I had to explain how I knew I'd been RBd. Probably unnecessary on reflection but still.


Wrapping up thoughts are that rsoultin really picked away at the scummy parts of my play D2 but then I got hammered by stuff that felt totally unrelated to that. Or more specifically either addressed stuff I'd have done as town anyway, rehashed arguments that rsoultin made and flat out lied about what I'd done. That was exhausting and outright depressing and frankly has made me feel like I don't think I'm going to play another game. I should have pushed to get back in the game more after D2 but honestly I was almost totally spent and sick of it all. I actually got chest pains as a result of that six hour session, broken only by dinner, it was horrible; and whichever side I'd been on you WOULD have found me scummy at that point because I was totally exhausted and posting garbage. So yeah, I pretty much gave up on trying to convince anyone of anything and was ultimately extremely surprised to find myself given a free pass from a simple destabilisation claim.

Also I think I had a tendency to get somewhat wrapped up in planning ahead. On D1 I had two or three different plans that had developed from what had been happening in thread as a way to get rsoultin mislynched because right throughout we (mafia team) were scared of a medic save on rsoultin, her seeming the obvious target. In the end it didn't matter because there wasn't a medic. But I was very caught up in the whole "getting her to look guilty" and perhaps a little tunnel visioned on that objective.



Anyway. My thanks:
- rsoultin. Out of everyone you genuinely threatened my more scummy actions and attitude on D2. Good reads, even if the medic claim totally threw you for a loop. My D1 play was pretty genuine, but I started losing control of the situation somewhat when you started picking away at the genuinely scummy stuff I was starting to post D2 after the lynch. Also trying to NK you was SCARY because we were terrified of a wasted kill.

- HtS. For keeping me in the game. I outright would have just quit if you'd not been around to chat to at that point. Also my confidence that you could have carried even if that lynch had gone through is unshaken. You're a better player than you give yourself credit for.

- kitaman27. Thank GOD you found us a replacement because I was looking to be lynched and a lynch and a modkill on two of the mafia would have really hurt after a great start of a blue lynch. Also to scott for stepping up for us.

- geript. For giving me the push I needed to actually go through with the idea of claiming something, and for recommending it be a doc claim. When I posted those thoughts I was just throwing out ideas, wouldn't have actually done it without encouragement because at that point I was just spent to be honest.

- sicklucker. Just there tons and provided a ton of good advice to the whole mafia team. Much love.



Still not sure I want to play ever again (that D2 stuff really, really got me down honestly; I don't know what to do about this whole thing now). But it was nice to win the game more or less on my birthday.

On January 13 2015 13:23 Trfel wrote:
This game made me really sad

I played horribly. Really sorry to everyone for my lack of contributing anything useful.

Still, definitely a lot of very strong newbie performances. In particular I did really like WarWaffle's play. Taking inactivity as a given, the rest of it wasn't bad at all. Especially that blue generic claim. The lynch was too bad.

Not blaming this one on anyone other than myself though.... oh well, hopefully I will play better next time.

Edit: How could I forget, thanks a ton to kitaman and Templar for hosting, as well as all of the coaches (especially GlowingBear, you #1!)

And Half the Sky, as expected, you play a really brutal mafia game. For the record, I was intentionally not attempting to read you, since I really badly wanted to call you scum but on D1 I just couldn't see any reasons for it.

On January 13 2015 13:49 Tubesock wrote:
GG guys, sorry I was an asshole.

On January 13 2015 21:52 Half the Sky wrote:
Finally managed to read through the other QTs during lunch...

First, Trfel, cheers. You know how to read people well. WP. Sicklucker called for your head in scum QT D1. I did not agree with it initially but there was enough fear of a Rasputin medic save that we ultimately took his advise. What made you think I was scum? PoE?

Second, <3 you Celestial. I had a load of fun playing alongside you, and I know whilst this game was frustrating, I honestly hope you come back for another, RNG town and have a good time.

In some of the other QTs I'd seen comments on me. One of the coaches had commented (I think it was LoneMeow) they saw multiple red flags but they couldn't figure out whether it was beginner play or if it was because I was scum. I was curious as to what may have stuck out. I know there were some WTF moments N2 on the mechanics debates, but I had trouble grasping those in Carol as well. I tend to overthink those regardless of alignment.

Also in one of the QTs, someone had complained that Tubesock and myself were making comments on coaches. Yikes. If I'd been told in scum QT or in thread, that would have stopped immediately on my end.