Imperial Mafia - Page 6

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justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:15 GMT

#895

On January 02 2015 02:07 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lynching Marv is a terrible idea btw.

Elaborate.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:22 GMT

#901

On January 02 2015 02:21 Lazermonkey wrote:

Show nested quote +

Basically what Artanis said.

marv will be posting more on D2 no matter what alignment he is. We will be able to judge him better at that point. If he sucks then, sure I can kill him. To kill the strongest player because he is inactive D1, when there are legitimate reasons to be inactive, is hardly worth it.

Besides, even if your really think he is a good target, do you really believe he is the BEST target?

If marv is scum he will probably be happy to even survive day1.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:23 GMT

#902

You didn't even give a read on marv.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:24 GMT

#905

On January 02 2015 02:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 02 2015 02:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

On January 01 2015 06:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Yeah, of course I think it's intentional. I will rehash my three main cases in spoilers here. If people are finally listening just read carefully. I'm a terrible writer these days so I can clear up any reasoning that seems fuzzy or unclear to anybody.

First: this is about Chyz's read of eden being artificial. It's the least convincing case but I think in the greater context it still looks really bad. This is kind of all over the place so I'd be glad to restate the points more clearly if I need to.
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 31 2014 18:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TheChyz is mafia

The foundation of my argument is that TheChyz superficially chose eden1892 when asked for his reads. When I dismiss his initial reasons, he further contradicts the premise of his read and then changes the reasons when asked about it by ritoky. Let's go through his post history with context.

Show nested quote +

This post is supposed to be uncontroversial. I realize now I initially misread part of this post but it changes nothing. The important part is colored in red.

Show nested quote +

Let's sum up the Eden read:
1. Eden is my largest scum read.
2. He is scummy because he uses defensive wording.
3. He is scummy because he is not jumping on anyone strongly.
4. He is scummy because he is playing cautiously and fearfully.

Of all players in this game this about describes Eden the least. What about the myriad of other players who have yet to accuse anyone of being mafia?

Show nested quote +

This post comes before TheChyz's second post. Eden is one of only two players in the game to even vote up until this point. Why oh why considering this would eden stand out specifically to TheChyz as a player who is
1. Defensive
2. Not jumping on anyone
3. Too cautious

This is the first time in the game that TheChyz expresses immediate suspicion towards someone who votes for him.

Show nested quote +

1. Everyone is suspicious
2. I am suspicious
3. The only thing that makes eden seem scummy is his wording doesn't seem right.

I'm not sure what "The wording isn't right" means. Earlier TheChyz has more specific reasons, but I guess he kinda forgot about them or whatever. It was only his largest scum read so those kinds of things don't matter. Shoot, he's just suspicious of everybody so it doesn't really matter!

I wonder when TheChyz will have something substantial to say. Apparently his scumreads aren't very substantial at all as he says himself.

Show nested quote +

With this post let's try to get a masterlist of all the things you think about Eden, your #1 scumread. Sorry if I'm redundant.

1. Eden is my largest scumread.
2. Eden is scummy because he uses defensive wording.
3. Eden is scummy because he is afraid of jumping on anyone. (I would assume this means accusing, pressuring,voting - all things Eden had done before he brought this up)
4. Eden is scummy because he seems cautious and fearful.
5. Eden is scummy just because his wording just doesn't seem right.
6. I have no reason to vote for Eden.
7. Voting for eden is a garbage vote.
8. Eden is the least towny of all the players.

And then:

Show nested quote +

Eden's soft accusations resulted in a vote on you pages ago. Now you're accusing me of being soft for not voting for you but eden is soft for whatever reason because I guess you have to stick to your guns or something. I'll wait a few more hours to vote and see how long you chase your tail over it

Second: I think the most damning.

On January 01 2015 05:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TheChyz

On January 01 2015 03:16 TheChyz wrote:
does anybody have a read on lazer? I really feel like all of the posts hes made have very little commitment behind then and its as if he is scared to reach too and just goes for easy already discussed stuff. Also his last 3 "reads" are just a summation of stuff and I congratulate him for being able to read and repeat stuff but nothing at all has come out of him at all.

Even you dr.H, I may be hypocritical to you about lazer, but don't you agree? Or are you just tunneling and trying to prove how wrong you are at the end?

Seeking thread approval. His read is bullshit so he wants to see if someone buys into his reasoning. This is a textbook example of a noncommittal read. Nice way of deflecting at the end too. My argument was 100% at that point about his read on eden being a fabrication. One size fits all argument. His question for me is meaningless because the premise of the question is false. Does anyone have a read on x seems like a weird question after:

On January 01 2015 01:58 TheChyz wrote:
I don't like how koshi entered the thread. But afterwards he makes a decent defense of me and seems to be able to make a coherent read on me. I don't see a point to defend me as scum so early on with little votes and as such that leans town to me.

I don't see where people are getting this geript thing. If someone can enlighten me but I liked his intros into the thread, nothing amazing but better than the other fluff people were posting. Later on he has seem to slacked off a bit but other than not seeming to scum hunt as much as I'm used he doesn't seem scummy. null for me. Maybe you guys know him better than I and have a bad feeling but I don't see anything conclusive.

I don't like lazer atm. He hasn't really done any scum hunting this game and is rehashing old stuff and using it again. The read on robik is w/e. Robik has done nothing except "activity" posts so obv that doesn't look good as town. However him making a read on those 2 robik posts and having nothing on anybody else apart from me doesn't sit right. His case on me can be thought of both ways and as such is pointless. Basically his reasoning is if I was scum and was asked to push my thoughts I would. But the same case can be made of me as town. I don't like his play atm and want more from him.
##Vote: Lazermonkey

This post comes before. He seems quite confident in his read here. Mafia players I think often structure their initial accusations to sound strong and back off more over time. Nothing about Koshi is suspicious to him and he only changes his mind later after quite a few other players put heat on Koshi. He has nothing to say about geript so I don't know why he even included it. Maybe this is one of the useful thoughts all townies should share. Since TheChyz is confident enough to vote for Lazermonkey (something he refused to do for eden who was his largest scumread at the time which he never technically dropped) I went ahead and looked at lazermonkey.

On January 01 2015 00:30 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hi everyone

Because of NYE, I will only be able to be active for a few hours today. Tomorrow I'll have more time though. Chyz looks scummy. Though I do think people are attacking him for the wrong reasons. The discussion between DH and rikoty WAS stupid. But if you look at Chyz opening post, he doesn't give any actual opinion about the players involved other than that rikoty should move on. Nowhere does he speak about their alignment.

On December 31 2014 17:06 TheChyz wrote:
Hello all.

Currently I don't like the direction that dr.H and ritoky are going. Basically I just see it as dr.H doing something not alignment indicative (someone always talks about policy lynches :/ ) and now ritoky is just trying to either prove that dr.H is scum or (my most probably guess) is he just wants to get an early acknowledgement of dominance by trying to force dr.H into admitting he did not follow his own policy (which most people don't follow anyway). I don't see a reason why ritoky would push this so far without any agenda.

@ritoky lets move onto something a bit more important than trying to prove your dick is bigger than dr.H's. If there is anything substantial you have then go ahead, but currently your just being more of a filter spammer than anything.

Chyz doesn't follow up with anything at all untill he is called out. Why is it that he the first thing that he felt he had to post was that people was on the wrong track, instead of actually trying give some of his own opinion? This is scum mentality.

##Vote: TheChyz

Good post. Even if he is wrong about Chyz's alignment, he's noticing the right things.

On January 01 2015 00:38 Lazermonkey wrote:

On December 31 2014 15:17 geript wrote:
So you don't find Robik who is normally an exceptionally prolific poster as town posting "Hello?" twice and then fucking off when he got ignored interesting in the slightest?

I think Robik is scummy for this. Obviously, it was at the very start of the game so its not the strongest of reads BUT I know I did a very similar thing in another game, i.e. saying something of absolutely no substance early on in the game to indicative that I was in fact active, and then just afk.

I was scum that game.

Interesting. Chyz's accusations don't quite fit what Lazermonkey was doing here.

" The read on robik is w/e. Robik has done nothing except "activity" posts so obv that doesn't look good as town. However him making a read on those 2 robik posts and having nothing on anybody else apart from me doesn't sit right."

First of all Chyz is actually agreeing with the read. His point of suspicion is that LazerMonkey doesn't have any other scumreads he's pushing besides him. What's wrong with that exactly?

On January 01 2015 02:06 TheChyz wrote:
I don't usually pay much attention to people until they actually do something. Ionno, its kinda like ppl policy lynching lurkers and such (since that is kinda what robik is doing). By no means is he town but also saying nothing is not really anything to jump on top of, at least not yet anyway. Usually lurkers lurk by day 1 and if he wants to do that, fine. Doesn't mean he will probably last day 2 if he continues that way.

By entrance I meant more like the first few posts of the game. Ionno, it just felt very similar to the other time I played with him in which he was town. I don't think any of the posts on geript hold any real substance (unless I scimmed through an important one too quickly) and are kinda more like peoples soft reads on him.

Bolded. LazerMonkey didn't jump all over Robik for anything especially since his read was just revealed as a response to geripts question. He focuses his attention on TheChyz for the most part, read LazerMonkey's filter.

On January 01 2015 01:39 Lazermonkey wrote:

On January 01 2015 01:15 KelsierSC wrote:
Laazermonkey I have "your" chyz read , can you give some thoughts about other players in the game?

Outside of Robik and Chyz, not too much.

geript I'm a bit torn on. Initially, I thought he was a bit scummy (waiting for Palmar, Marv etc) but he has been active and was one of the players that really got the discussion going. This is making me like him somewhat, as scum there is no reason to be that active in the start of the game really. Slight town read on him.

I think sicklurker posted some relevant things at the start of the game. Not much though, but a slight town read this far.

He's even forthcoming when asked about it. This is an obvious case of "Chyz is my top read so I'm focusing on him" and considering LazerMonkey's lower activity this is the right kind of production. In fact, yet again LazerMonkey has been much more confident and open about his reads than TheChyz has. All of his votes are OMGUS with weak reasoning and look at how he backs down from me (in chronological order):

On December 31 2014 17:39 TheChyz wrote:
Defend what read? Stop spewing garbage and putting it in peoples mouths. I didn't like how eden is formulating his soft accusations and I haven't dismissed it yet. Is it anything to push on, no? But alas donkeys like you like seeing garbage reads so I thought id give you one. Here's another
##vote: DoctorHelvetica

On December 31 2014 17:41 TheChyz wrote:

On December 31 2014 17:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

On December 31 2014 17:36 TheChyz wrote:
Meh now i see how ritoky got caught in that discussion with you it is. I have nothing to prove to you since your threatening me with what? Not following my day 1 talk. sounds fimilar.

A bandwagon. I'm nearly 100% convinced that you're mafia. I encourage everyone to vote for you and will spend as much time as I need to convince them and to force you to keep defending yourself over and over again. You don't have to reply to me if you think it's a waste of time. I might not succeed if you just ignore me.

Put your money where your mouth is and vote, or do you like to just spew fluff left and right?

On December 31 2014 17:53 TheChyz wrote:
Does anybody else find it strange that after making that case on my and my "garbage" read and all that that when dr.H finally mans up and says that I'm 100% scum and basically will do anything to get me lynched and the proceeds to just leave it at that. No vote, nothing. Seems like he just wants to start a bullshit case on me and hope others latch on. If nothing happens he will probs just drop it. Really scummish to me.

Anybody else have opinions on dr.H?seeking approval

On January 01 2015 03:26 TheChyz wrote:
I remember geript making a post about dr.H being a bully when mafia. Does anybody else agree with this? I was fine with dr.H like 8 hours ago because it seemed like he was trying to scum hunt. Now it just looks like hes trying to filter spam the same thing over and over and trying push a vote.

8 hours ago I was tunneling him and he was calling me a donkey idiot and voting for me and trying to convince others to vote for me or feel suspicious about me. He liked that I was trying to scum hunt when I was posting cases on him and trying to get people to vote for him? Self admitted guilt. No way town would congratulate another townie for tunneling them cause it was a great effort or something. What the fuck?

On January 01 2015 03:41 TheChyz wrote:

On December 31 2014 17:39 TheChyz wrote:
But alas donkeys like you like seeing garbage reads so I thought id give you one. Here's another
##vote: DoctorHelvetica

I think it was fairly obvious this wasn't a serious read...
And I was really tired and a bit annoyed so wanted to let off a bit of steam.

You made an obvious attempt to sell it to the rest of the thread. Straight up lying. Is this enough to lynch the chyz now? I can always go back and explain how his eden read was fabricated bullshit too.

Third: behaving inconsistent with his town meta
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 01 2015 06:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
You could also look at how much more confidently TheChyz plays in cultured mini mafia where he was town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/444078-cultured-mini-mafia?user=TheChyz

Show nested quote +

On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote:
kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with

On February 26 2014 12:33 geript wrote:

On February 26 2014 12:26 TheChyz wrote:
Hey geript I'm not a moron you know. My memory lasts more than a few minutes. Would you mind explain why rayn and toad can't be scum together. (for the third time...)

A few things. One is how chummy they are early makes it unlikely they'd be together. Second, Rayn is probably town for his geript cop joke; it took me like 3 minutes to get that one. Third, I like Rayn's WoS vote and minor push; WoS has been trolling really weird to start off with and isn't his usual witty self. Fourth, they wouldn't both likely push back against me as scum together this early. Like I'm apparently unreadable to people which is totally crazy in my mind.

All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points:
1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything.
2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant.
3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him.
4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all.

In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand.

Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now.

##Vote geript

His first vote in this game is thought out and much more thoroughly explained. He makes no attempt at all to gain approval from the thread or ask anyones opinion.

Wonder how good the odds are that still no one will evem read all this

I believe in the philosophy that if you can't explain a scumread in a few sentences it's not a good scumread. I think Syllogism once said something in that sense. Palmar did that quite well. I'm waiting for your tl;dr edition on your TheChyz read.

This is so true.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:32 GMT

#911

On January 02 2015 02:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
So if I make a long post it will get ignored and if I cobble together a few sentences no one will listen because I'm already hated in this game.

You are not hated. People just tend to ignore players that are tunneling so hard and walls of text are generally annoying to read.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:33 GMT

#913

Like I promise I will read your case and you promise to stop going all emo on us. Deal?

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:38 GMT

#914

On January 02 2015 02:32 Lazermonkey wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm not super impressed by marvs play this fair but TBH I don't have a strong read on him nor do I prioritize getting a better read on him atm. My point still stands though, I'm not willing to kill the strongest player because he is playing bad/is inactive D1.

I once thought so too but this logic is actually retarded. If he is the strongest player he may aswell show us that he is town.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:51 GMT

#927

On January 02 2015 02:48 KelsierSC wrote:

Show nested quote +

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 17:57 GMT

#930

On January 02 2015 02:51 Lazermonkey wrote:

Show nested quote +

So you would rather kill someone for not playing the game the way you want it to be played than to actually kill the most likely scum? Besides, if you really think marv is playing that bad does it make him more scum? It doesn't make sense for scum marv to suck so I feel this is a flawed argument.

Marvs towngame is to play well and very active. Marvs scumgame is to not do jackshit. What do you think he is doing this game?

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 18:01 GMT

#932

On January 02 2015 02:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Show nested quote +

His vote on me was a bit of a joke but doesn't make it any less of a lie. Why would townie pat anyone on the back for tunneling them? I was fine? When I was tunneling him 8 hours ago and then later he says "oh yeah i was really pissed off and annoyed and that's why I ..."

so which is it? was he fine with me when I was "Trying to scum hunt" by tunneling him or was he annoyed? I can't really tell, I think he just wants to avoid any heat

Being fine with you could mean he thinks you are town in this case. Not that he is fine with your play.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 18:03 GMT

#935

On January 02 2015 03:02 Lazermonkey wrote:

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o.O really? I've never played with scum marv. I guess that makes your argument more valid.

Still, do you think he is the BEST lynch for today?

If he doesn't show up and pushes something today, possibly.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 18:10 GMT

#940

On January 02 2015 03:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
not to mention his initial "largest scumread" was eden . thechyz says he's suspicious for being wishy washy etc but at that point eden had already voted and made his thoughts quite clear. chyz never pressures eden or asks him any questions, nothing. barely has anything to say to his top suspect lazermonkey later. always seeking town points or people to agree w/ him

the fact that LM came out with a case on thechyz that had nothing to do with mine and is being accused of "just agreeing with everyone" or "parroting" is either mafia intention or very lazy reading.

Show nested quote +

On February 26 2014 12:33 geript wrote:

This is on page 1 of his filter of Cultured. He was town in this game. Look at the confidence he has so early on. When I ask him about eden he has nothing to say and then calls it a garbage vote and a pretty weak read.

Another interesting thing is in cultured when TheChyz posts a read he feels is soft or not fully formed yet, he admits it right away and doesn't just ask for other peoples support. In this game he only admits his read isn't worth anything if you ask him.

Was he under heavy pressure in that game like he was here? It can make a big difference.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 18:12 GMT

#942

What makes Chyz actually look worse for me is that he just disappeared when the pressure was over and didn't show up since then. Why did slam start this game at NYE -.-

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 18:15 GMT

#945

See Dr. H, I feel like I should have a strong opinion on chyz and your case by now and I just don't. I don't townread him but I just don't see what you are seeing.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 19:35 GMT

#983

Marv, can I hear your opinion on batsnacks?

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 19:37 GMT

#986

On January 02 2015 04:36 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

why?

I mean naturally I agree, but why

Do you agree that his defense of you looks fishy?

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 19:42 GMT

#991

On January 02 2015 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

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I think batsnacks is scum. I hate all of his posts but i didnt want to lose on chyz for a while. I know you're not asking me but id be glad to discuss batsnacks as scum since chyz and geript are practically locked for me

Noted.

On January 02 2015 04:38 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think his posting should mean he is mafia if we just go by meta, but I'm not really sure that he is after all. I'll try to explain more when I've finished reading the thread.

I would really love to hear that. I have a similar feeling about him.

justanothertownie

16342 Posts

January 01 2015 19:43 GMT

#992

On January 02 2015 04:42 marvellosity wrote:

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