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On December 16 2014 08:42 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 08:40 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 08:29 The_Templar wrote:On December 16 2014 08:27 LightningStrike wrote:On December 16 2014 08:25 The_Templar wrote:
Wait wait wait, so Tubesock is saying that Holyflare, who is town, is giving Tubesock, who is mafia, a present? Fixed based on the majority thinking of the situation. I didn't word that very well- I'm seeing it from his perspective here. According to him, Holyflare is mafia who game town a present, which makes very little sense... I am saying Mafia Holyflare is setting up an excuse to night kill a town by saying it was the death present. He isn't sending any gift. Gifts can not be verified or confirmed. It's simply smoke and mirrors. Like no hes not. No one would even believe that. Your the only one who wont admit besides overwhelming evidence that I had the death present.
No, you "claiming" to give a present to Damdred and him being killed is not evidence of you having the death present. It's smoke and mirrors. We only know when you flip. Same with Holyflare.
##Vote: Holyflare
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On December 16 2014 08:48 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 08:46 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 08:42 sicklucker wrote:On December 16 2014 08:40 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 08:29 The_Templar wrote:On December 16 2014 08:27 LightningStrike wrote:On December 16 2014 08:25 The_Templar wrote:
Wait wait wait, so Tubesock is saying that Holyflare, who is town, is giving Tubesock, who is mafia, a present? Fixed based on the majority thinking of the situation. I didn't word that very well- I'm seeing it from his perspective here. According to him, Holyflare is mafia who game town a present, which makes very little sense... I am saying Mafia Holyflare is setting up an excuse to night kill a town by saying it was the death present. He isn't sending any gift. Gifts can not be verified or confirmed. It's simply smoke and mirrors. Like no hes not. No one would even believe that. Your the only one who wont admit besides overwhelming evidence that I had the death present. No, you "claiming" to give a present to Damdred and him being killed is not evidence of you having the death present. It's smoke and mirrors. We only know when you flip. Same with Holyflare. ##Vote: Holyflare If SL is mafia, and knows he gave damdred the death present; then why would HF who you think is mafia, give a present, that he KNOWS is beneficial to town, to a town?
I'm saying Sicklucker never had a present to send. It can not be verified or confirmed. It's smoke and mirrors. It's cover for a mafia hit.
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On December 16 2014 09:05 Holyflare wrote:Just fuck off seriously you're actually worse than gb today with your one track mindedness and that's saying something.
He is right though.
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On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:On December 16 2014 09:06 sicklucker wrote:
Actually wait it makes sense if gb is town which I think is still probably true.
The only way a mafia would mention they have a present is if a town sent it to them and they know they will be under suspicion if they dont use it.
So ok gb town ritoky mafia makes sense lets do this. I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious? Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB? Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes
So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS?
Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow?
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On December 16 2014 09:27 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:25 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:On December 16 2014 09:06 sicklucker wrote:
Actually wait it makes sense if gb is town which I think is still probably true.
The only way a mafia would mention they have a present is if a town sent it to them and they know they will be under suspicion if they dont use it.
So ok gb town ritoky mafia makes sense lets do this. I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious? Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB? Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS? Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow? This is where the crux of your argument falls apart.
Not really. I've made it pretty clear that Sick is playing his role perfectly. For some reason most all of you think it's just him playing bad. He's not playing bad. I'm saying lynch him as even if he is town he isn't helping town. Lynch him. But only after you HF. 
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On December 16 2014 09:33 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:30 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:25 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:On December 16 2014 09:06 sicklucker wrote:
Actually wait it makes sense if gb is town which I think is still probably true.
The only way a mafia would mention they have a present is if a town sent it to them and they know they will be under suspicion if they dont use it.
So ok gb town ritoky mafia makes sense lets do this. I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious? Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB? Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS? Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow? This is where the crux of your argument falls apart. Not really. I've made it pretty clear that Sick is playing his role perfectly. For some reason most all of you think it's just him playing bad. He's not playing bad. I'm saying lynch him as even if he is town he isn't helping town. Lynch him. But only after you HF. His reasoning is so terrible that i find it hard to believe that someone so intelligent and playing so "perfectly" would ever make them. It's likely he's just bad at thinking and town or bad at thinking and mafia. None of what you have said picks them apart. Only soul has just brought up something valid about sl's past game now.
So, you're saying he is too scummy to be scum?
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On December 16 2014 09:36 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:35 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:33 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:30 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:25 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:On December 16 2014 09:06 sicklucker wrote:
Actually wait it makes sense if gb is town which I think is still probably true.
The only way a mafia would mention they have a present is if a town sent it to them and they know they will be under suspicion if they dont use it.
So ok gb town ritoky mafia makes sense lets do this. I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious? Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB? Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS? Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow? This is where the crux of your argument falls apart. Not really. I've made it pretty clear that Sick is playing his role perfectly. For some reason most all of you think it's just him playing bad. He's not playing bad. I'm saying lynch him as even if he is town he isn't helping town. Lynch him. But only after you HF. His reasoning is so terrible that i find it hard to believe that someone so intelligent and playing so "perfectly" would ever make them. It's likely he's just bad at thinking and town or bad at thinking and mafia. None of what you have said picks them apart. Only soul has just brought up something valid about sl's past game now. So, you're saying he is too scummy to be scum? Did you actually read the post you quoted?
Yes. If you're going to nitpick, then I guess I should have asked Holyflare "So, you're saying he is playing too badly to be mafia?"
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On December 16 2014 09:41 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:35 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:33 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:30 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:25 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:On December 16 2014 09:06 sicklucker wrote:
Actually wait it makes sense if gb is town which I think is still probably true.
The only way a mafia would mention they have a present is if a town sent it to them and they know they will be under suspicion if they dont use it.
So ok gb town ritoky mafia makes sense lets do this. I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious? Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB? Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS? Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow? This is where the crux of your argument falls apart. Not really. I've made it pretty clear that Sick is playing his role perfectly. For some reason most all of you think it's just him playing bad. He's not playing bad. I'm saying lynch him as even if he is town he isn't helping town. Lynch him. But only after you HF. His reasoning is so terrible that i find it hard to believe that someone so intelligent and playing so "perfectly" would ever make them. It's likely he's just bad at thinking and town or bad at thinking and mafia. None of what you have said picks them apart. Only soul has just brought up something valid about sl's past game now. So, you're saying he is too scummy to be scum? No I'm saying his logic is too dumb to be so open and closed as scum like you are suggesting but it doesn't make him town or mafia. None of what you are saying makes any sense whatsoever. If you wanted to convince people do what rsoul said and show how he's not that stupid as town in other games and this is entirely his mafia agenda this game otherwise you are just biased and tunneled.
I need more education on the strategies of Mafia. I don't understand how after 2 full days and 2 nights why I should have ANY influence from previous meta play? I get using meta in the beginning to throw out reads but, there is just so much content in this game, what does clouding anything with previous games actually do?
I think it was even you saying that previous games meta were bullshit as the person misread you there. So, uh NOW I should be arguing meta? I'm pretty dense and stubborn if you haven't noticed, you'll have to dumb this down.
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On December 16 2014 09:54 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:51 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:36 The_Templar wrote:On December 16 2014 09:35 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:33 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:30 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:25 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:
[quote]
I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious?
Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB?
Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS? Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow? This is where the crux of your argument falls apart. Not really. I've made it pretty clear that Sick is playing his role perfectly. For some reason most all of you think it's just him playing bad. He's not playing bad. I'm saying lynch him as even if he is town he isn't helping town. Lynch him. But only after you HF. His reasoning is so terrible that i find it hard to believe that someone so intelligent and playing so "perfectly" would ever make them. It's likely he's just bad at thinking and town or bad at thinking and mafia. None of what you have said picks them apart. Only soul has just brought up something valid about sl's past game now. So, you're saying he is too scummy to be scum? Did you actually read the post you quoted? Yes. If you're going to nitpick, then I guess I should have asked Holyflare "So, you're saying he is playing too badly to be mafia?" He said in that post that it's likely that he's either bad at thinking and town or bad at thinking and mafia, meaning it's likely he could be either town or mafia. So no, he didn't say that.
In either case, Sick isn't helping town win, he's only adding confusion. So, to me whether he flips or not, he's helping mafia. Lynch him. But after HF.
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On December 16 2014 10:03 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 09:54 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:41 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:35 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:33 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:30 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:25 Tubesock wrote:On December 16 2014 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2014 09:11 rsoultin wrote:
[quote]
I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious?
Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB?
Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. Absolutely ridiculous assumptions all game about mass murderers/death presents /nk's /alignments yes So, why is your vote on Ritoky for 1 scum action while Sicklucker has only done scummy or bad towny things for DAYS? Why are we allowing that? How about we either wagon HF or Sick, if they turn town then wagon Ritoky or me tomorrow? This is where the crux of your argument falls apart. Not really. I've made it pretty clear that Sick is playing his role perfectly. For some reason most all of you think it's just him playing bad. He's not playing bad. I'm saying lynch him as even if he is town he isn't helping town. Lynch him. But only after you HF. His reasoning is so terrible that i find it hard to believe that someone so intelligent and playing so "perfectly" would ever make them. It's likely he's just bad at thinking and town or bad at thinking and mafia. None of what you have said picks them apart. Only soul has just brought up something valid about sl's past game now. So, you're saying he is too scummy to be scum? No I'm saying his logic is too dumb to be so open and closed as scum like you are suggesting but it doesn't make him town or mafia. None of what you are saying makes any sense whatsoever. If you wanted to convince people do what rsoul said and show how he's not that stupid as town in other games and this is entirely his mafia agenda this game otherwise you are just biased and tunneled. I need more education on the strategies of Mafia. I don't understand how after 2 full days and 2 nights why I should have ANY influence from previous meta play? I get using meta in the beginning to throw out reads but, there is just so much content in this game, what does clouding anything with previous games actually do? I think it was even you saying that previous games meta were bullshit as the person misread you there. So, uh NOW I should be arguing meta? I'm pretty dense and stubborn if you haven't noticed, you'll have to dumb this down. You can argue meta if you can prove that meta exists which like nobody has done this game really but still made meta cases. His points are so atrocious that i do not know whether it is his normal play to make such leaps of logic so would consult other games to see if it was. If he doesn't usually play this way at all then it lends a lot of justification to what you have been saying about him. If he does usually play like this then your points that he is playing his role perfectly is moot because he normally plays town like that too. I just made the assumption that he was just silly and ignorant and doesn't really ever think things through because he wasn't being very intelligent which doesn't really make him an alignment. This made your case seem impossible and thus i largely ignored all of what you were saying about him.
This is a fair point. I'll give you my points are all conspiracy theorist type basis. It's based on how I view your and his interactions are trying to accomplish. I'm not going to bother with trying to figure out if it's his meta as I don't feel it's useful. The only way to prove my viewpoint is if he flips mafia. If he doesn't then I will reevaluate as it'll mean some assumptions will be incorrect.
I didn't bring a shovel for this tunnel.
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It's really difficult to defend Ritoky. My vote will stay on Holyflare though as he's one of my strongest reads (all my conspiracy theories) and at one time there were 5 of my top scum on Ritoky. Sicklucker jumped off, but I am waiting for the rest of them to jump off too when the wagon becomes strong enough without a couple of them. HF is already saying how he goes back on forth. I don't see him staying the course on Ritoky despite being one of the first votes on him.
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Temp is right.
If 5 of your top scum reads are on a guy, what would you do? I'm going to wait and watch. If I'm wrong I'll answer for it.
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So, what happens if Ritoky flips town? Do you guys think HF is scum or town still? GB?
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On December 17 2014 06:52 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 06:43 Tubesock wrote:
So, what happens if Ritoky flips town? Do you guys think HF is scum or town still? GB? Well, if rit flips town the first thing I'll do is call him an idiot without any reservations whatsoever. GB has been acting scummy to me...rit's flip doesn't actually speak to my case on GB except maybe one point or so... I know you think HF is scum, so I'm willing to hear out your case. It seemed like most of it was associative...????
I first thought GB was mafia, but later he brought this big case on HF. I thought it would have been easier to just dismiss my case like the others did (assuming he responded partly due to my case and bringing him attention). I thought he was being set up as a scapegoat for a future mlynch. Then, he does very very scummy things (tunnels HF and then abandons it despite no real change in arguments, and then the drunk posts).
My mafia read on HF is strenghtened by how I read the EoD2 votes:
Given there were 2 wagons: I think it's more plausible that KelsierSC keeps his vote to protect Holyflare over the idea that KelsierSC is healthy enough to post, but not see that he could change his vote and lynch a Town!Holyflare and save himself. I have a very hard time believing the second situation.
On December 14 2014 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
The End of Counts
KelsierSC (8): Alakaslam, liancourt, Tubesock, Tubesock, rsoultin, Tubesock, Fecalfeast, Alakaslam, Trfel, Tubesock, Fecalfeast, Half the Sky, rsoultin, ritoky, Xatalos, ObiwanShinobi
liancourt (0): GlowingBear
GlowingBear (0): Tubesock, rsoultin, Holyflare
Tubesock (2): sicklucker, The_Templar, Fecalfeast, froggynoddy, Xatalos, Half the Sky, LightningStrike
ritoky (0): Holyflare, rsoultin, Lightning Strike, Half the Sky
froggynoddy (0): Oatsmaster
Half the Sky (0): batsnacks
Holyflare (7): GlowingBear, Fecalfeast, batsnacks, Tubesock, Alakaslam, Tubesock, Fecalfeast, The_Templar, sicklucker, Vivax, Fecalfeast, Trfel
Fecalfeast (2): Alakaslam, Vivax, Holyflare, KelsierSC, Vivax, Xatalos, Half the Sky, rsoultin, Alakaslam, Tubesock
Oatsmaster (0): Vivax
Vivax (1): Oatsmaster
sicklucker (0): Tubesock
Trfel (1): rsoultin
KelsierSC was lynched!
Afterwards, Holyflare seemed mad and frustrated because he's never been "mlynched" before, and that he was playing bad because if he wasn't he would have never been considered for lynch. Is this normal? Why wouldn't he feel relieved and happy town killed mafia? His never being mlynched streak stays intact, and we killed KelsierSC.
Then, when asked about Ritoky he says:
On December 16 2014 10:36 Holyflare wrote:
I've gone through fluctuations with ritoky the most tbh. Like scummy as fuck for the bs meta case to not really scummy for claiming the present but also scummy for claiming the present and then he actually saw your case on me was bad and hammered mafia so i thought he may have actually just been retarded town again and then he claimed mafia and replaced froggy who was the weakest of my reads.
All the other ones have good reasons to be scum and froggy was just afk and agreeing with your case.
Most of you seem pretty passionate about this Ritoky lynch. You all claim he claimed scum, but this Holyflare post is pretty noncommittal to me. Although I won't support the Ritoky lynch myself, it's because for me Ritoky is #8 on the scum list and only that high because he lied about using the present. I don't see how his action helped mafia, how would we not notice that it's very unlikely you'd get a non-kill notification especially when it would be obvious when your target survived? How does that advance mafia's agenda? I firmly believe Ritoky will flip town. I will strongly stand by this, I'd love to see HF or my other scum reads stand by any of their reads. Live or die by it, but they haven't. Yet, you people say I'm town because I seem to stand by my reads but all my reads are wrong? What the what?
I'd also like to hear how you guys think that Holyflare is a good lynch candidate for D2 and then all of a sudden he's town? What changed? How exactly did he redeem himself? He hasn't put in any cases, he's been arguing with people about presents or claims and then complaining because he has to post every 5 minutes while on his romantic vacation but then also says he's at his post limit? Later he admits the mods don't really care about the limit, but still. What's convinced you guys he's town since EoD2?
Sicklucker
Holyflare
The_Templar
kelsierSC
Froggynoddy
Lightningstrike
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I just believe that if he is playing well, you're not going to see any real scummy play. I would think as a mafia team, you'd need some players that are good at deflecting attention from their buddies, some who lurk about and go unnoticed, and someone who can steer town around to kill more town. That guy isn't going to act overly scummy.
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Fecal, I do think you're acting scummy, although I don't think it furthers mafia agenda as much as my suspects do.
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On December 17 2014 07:52 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 07:44 Tubesock wrote:
I just believe that if he is playing well, you're not going to see any real scummy play. I would think as a mafia team, you'd need some players that are good at deflecting attention from their buddies, some who lurk about and go unnoticed, and someone who can steer town around to kill more town. That guy isn't going to act overly scummy. . The best way I know how to play this game (and I'm definitely not the best or most experienced(ha!) player) is to look for the most scummy players. Once they flip (provided they're actually scum) you can try to determine the scum play based on their interactions/votes. It could be as simple as one scum partner protecting another, certainly. I don't believe so, but that doesn't mean I'm right. That's why I'm not going to criticize you for your HF read. I can see your point of view.
I think we approach this game in the same manner. I just have a very hard time believing kel would not save himself when he could kill a town.
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I'm clearly on the wrong path, I'll still support any hf wagon and even a gb one though. Well done everyone.
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I haven't posted anything because I'm trying to reevaluate. It's pretty evident that everything in this game is WIFOM in one way or the other.
I still want to vote Holyflare for fairly simple reasons. I still find it exceptionally hard to believe that KSC and Ritoky would rather let KSC die than easily jump on HF. Sick or not, it's far better to lynch a town and then have the rest of us realize that KSC is 100% mafia and have him die at the next lynching. I also doubt anyone was town reading Templar, so HF's case was probably the easiest case to make. I'm also fairly certain that we won't stop arguing about HF till he lynches or the game ends. He's a huge distraction.
I'm questioning my vote on HF because I think Rsoutlin's case on GB is very well thought out and logical. Also, Sicklucker is pushing hard for it too, and I still scumread him for the same reasons (which I'm WIFOMing myself about).
I was very wrong on Ritoky, and Froggy so it's pretty easy to see my world is incorrect. Now, I'm trying to figure out if it's all garbage or just some of it.
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You've been a leading wagon for 3 days now, how is that not a distraction?
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EPT
