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On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light?
Because we're noticing the same things?
I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions.
You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma.
##unvote
##vote Requizen
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On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon.
I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify?
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On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote
That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell.
On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum?
I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town.
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On October 15 2014 03:16 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down. On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum? I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town. If I said you were town, it doesn't matter because it likely wouldn't dissuade people from riding your case given my bad reads and lack of conviction compared to theirs. If I said you were scum, people would accuse me of just jumping on the bandwagon given that I did not have that read on you previously. So I stuck to my guns and gave an honest opinion - that is, I don't know if you are either right now and I don't think I need to be forced to say. My game does not revolve around you. You're just one out of eleven. Trying to force suspicion onto me is not going to get the votes off of you. By the by, you voting for me is also pretty well a OMGUS vote, since you just voted for me because you are upset that I didn't answer you the way you wanted to be answered. And, in your own words,
Yeah...that's not how OMGUS works. You voted ketchup because he started pressing you and asking questions. In your words "he was on your case". I'm voting you because in the face of several cases on me, and despite saying you'd dive into my filter, you're still null on me. What you did is OMGUS, what I did is vote someone that I think is scum.
You literally have just admitted that you avoided saying I'm scum because you didn't want to be accused of bandwagoning.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 15 2014 03:15 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:09 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves.##unvote That last paragraph is what's called an OMGUS vote, and it is a huge scumtell. I didn't even know that was a thing. Ok, I guess it's a scummy move for someone who's played mafia for however many games, but you can clearly read the exchange between us (which was taking place at 1 in the morning) and realize my frustration. If not, then you can continue to ignore the evidence that is literally written down. Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:00 Cixah wrote:On October 15 2014 02:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:56 Cixah wrote:
Dandel if you get a chance can we get an updated vote soon?
Soniv is pushing heavy to get everything off him, which is good. However everything said by him does nothing but deflect attention for me. If Req is really your scum read soniv, What Committal opinon do you have on Req?
Req isn't helping matters but I still have no reason to distrust him yet. I Like his position less and less especially over the last 4 hours but he's still town to me. Req, you need to find something to you can stand on, and soon otherwise I think you swing soon. I don't quite know what you're asking here. Could you clarify? You keep stating that he's deflecting the question that has him pinned on Scum. Which question are you refering to and How does NOT answering it or giving a STRAIGHT answer make him scum? I'm sorry, I'm still not really following. Everyone seems to have an opinion on me except Req. When asked directly, sure he has stuck with his "I have no real read on him" position - but I find that unacceptable when everyone else seems to want me dead. He's actively avoiding a bandwagon without coming out and saying that I'm town. If I said you were town, it doesn't matter because it likely wouldn't dissuade people from riding your case given my bad reads and lack of conviction compared to theirs. If I said you were scum, people would accuse me of just jumping on the bandwagon given that I did not have that read on you previously. So I stuck to my guns and gave an honest opinion - that is, I don't know if you are either right now and I don't think I need to be forced to say.My game does not revolve around you. You're just one out of eleven. Trying to force suspicion onto me is not going to get the votes off of you.
This is scum mentality. You're concerned about looking guilty - townies should never be worried about looking guilty, they're there to find the reds. They're there to stick their necks out and see what's up. You're working hard to not stick your neck out.
Your game might not revolve around me, but right now, the thread is revolving around the case on me. So many people want me dead. Overwhelmingly so that people, Wave especially, should be able to tell that no one is in my corner. Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening.
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On October 15 2014 03:47 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Once again, I state - this is why LT is dead. He was the only one who realized that I was town. Someone mentioned to look at his last post, and it says "if unsure, a Wave or Soniv vote works D2". However, I am where everyone's focus went immediately, and what's happening right now is a bandwagon through and through. And you can bet your ass that scum are happy it's happening. I'll grant you that LT wasn't outright calling for your lynch, but he definitely didn't "realize you were town", he was pretty suspicious of you.
On October 14 2014 01:53 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Ahahaha. Req thinks I'm scum.
I wouldnt have a problem with it if the reasoning wasn't so bad. Your picking up on traits which are the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scum wants to do.
lol
Town can't change their minds? Pls.
And really, how are we to read your day one when you spent the entire time moaning then playing the newb card?
I applaud the effort, though the reasoning is poor at best. After analyzing the votecount and general player atmosphere, i figured i needed to steer town off of what was most likely town. And not waste a d1 lynch COUGH COUGH.
Still wouldnt lynch wave or soniv tomorrow.
Also, i take it back. Vigi should shoot today.
On October 14 2014 02:18 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Also Coma. Pls. Soniv is cleared for his push onto MB.
On October 14 2014 03:58 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 03:55 ComaDose wrote:On October 14 2014 02:18 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Also Coma. Pls. Soniv is cleared for his push onto MB. can you tell me what i miss as to why? is it because he just stuck with his original gut feeling? you were on again off again on the moonbear train too. and it seems like for the most part you and soniv only have good things to say about each other. i.e. soniv desregarding scummy reads on you and you saying he is clear now. Can you explain more? Soniv pushed the MB train hard. Scum usually don't want the attention early for pushing a town mislynch D1. Much better to look at the people following the train and sheeping.
@Alaric - I'm not sure how you would expect/want me to defend myself (other than defending my actions - though I've already explained that I was playing D1 under the impression that MB would flip red), but the best way I know how is to find scum myself, because clearly you guys aren't going to do it. (I know you gave your speculation of 3 options, but I'm running off to another meeting).
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On October 15 2014 07:03 ketchup wrote:
Err just to make it bold:
##Unvote: Soniv
##Vote: Req
at least someone is coming to their senses
On October 15 2014 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Soniv the best thing you can do right now if you're town is do what you haven't done in like fucking ages.
Provide some reads.
HELP OUT THE TOWN in some way.
If you die and flip green this way we'll have a whole bunch to work with
Your vote/case on Req doesn't help you much in my eyes. There are a lot of people in this game still, and I have no idea what you think about most of them.
When I think someone is town, I say that they're town. When I think someone is scum, I say that they're scum. There's no use in me stating that I have null reads on all of these scummy as fuck lurkers, just as you do. I have already said that my town reads are you, ketchup, 6ah (obviously), Alaric, and probably Alz. You know my biggest current scum read right now is Req, and somewhat lesser than that is Coma. I thought you were on to something with Asmo until he made his case on me; now I'm not so sure. The rest are a bunch of god damn lurkers that I don't know how to get a read on. I'll probably put my eye to one tonight to try and glean any semblance of usefulness. This whole thread feels like town yelling at each other for the most part while a bunch of people are watching.
There's my stupid fucking list post, all of my reads can be found in the thread, as I know for a fact that I've said them all.
Speaking of scummy as fuck lurkers...Jeff, where the fuck are you
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On October 15 2014 07:11 Alaric wrote:
Ketchup it wasn't a case. When I say I'm just curious and asking questions, I mean it. Soniv acted differently from most so far, including other vets (even Tolkien addressed accusations against him, although he did it by trashtalking their authors), and that made me curious since he's experience. I thought there was maybe something to glean about how the game is played here.
Eh, a lot of the suspicion on me is for my general play and how wave thinks I should be playing. I have addressed posts as they've come, surely. You were curious why I wasn't defending myself as you thought I would defend myself.
And I was totally fine with the questions you asked. And I explained my play as best I could, and am looking to kill scum. I am no stranger to being the target of a bandwagon, and experience has told me that helping find scum is better than being concerned about dying.
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Coma, try not to start drawing associations until you see a red flip. It causes you to read things with a bias.
It's the same mistake I made D1. I thought I was being a bit cheeky and could because I've got at least some experience at the game. But as a new player, I'd say it's highly unrecommended.
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On October 15 2014 07:34 ketchup wrote:Again, I want to ask Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 04:38 Requizen wrote:
Whatever
##vote jcarlsoniv
be back later How is this a good post from a town perspective? Am I missing something on Req here? What are people seeing that makes him townie? He has neutral feelings towards soniv, but still votes him? He seems to not have a solid read on ANYONE. He voted me, and then said it wasn't because he actually thought I was scum?
It's not a town perspective. Req's entire line of play has been incredibly self serving.
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On October 15 2014 07:59 Requizen wrote:I've posted and responded and tried to help town, and repeatedly was told I was doing it wrong and that my posts were incorrect and stupid. So I'm trying something different. As it turns out, pretty much everything I do elicits a similar response. Both you and Soniv started tirades against me based on very shaky ideas and both tried to use misinformation and half truths to make me look as bad as possible. And then when that failed, you fell on "well he's different from day 1" as an excuse to keep going. Of course I am. Give me a fracking break. I'm voting Soniv because his pressure made no sense, as I noted here: + Show Spoiler +Just because I don't have a strong opinion on you, I'm scum. That is the entirety of your whole argument. That the shittiest reasoning I've seen in a long time, and I used to read GD. If you really are town and want to get the votes off of you, you should explain your own actions rather than make me repeat myself for the, what, fifth time?
All you're doing is making me think you're more scum. This isn't bandwagoning (as you can clearly see from this entire exchange, I've remained very neutral up until this point), this is me looking at your actions (blame shifting, misinformation, fearmongering) and seeing you turn red. Whether that's just a townie screaming at nothing until his face turns purple or a desperate mafia, I don't know. As you can read (and I even copied it for you so you don't have to go into my filter and miss it again), his constant poking at non-points and failing to use simple logic makes me think he's trying way too hard to get people against me. It moves him up on my scum list. And since I'd rather vote on someone who I think may go through (Soniv) rather than someone who I know no one else but Jeff will vote on (Wave), I put my vote there. I could break it down further for you, but sometimes I'm optimistic and like to think that you're not that soft in the head. But then, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm terrible at this, just as terrible as I am at every game I play. Except 40k. Where I'll go now. Be back in a few hours or so.
Req, you posted stuff that you were clearly having opinions on, but your reasons for arriving at them was poor. You continually made and still make "I'm new/I'm bad at this" posts (this post is a case in point) and you're a huge martyr. You have been erratic and generally anti-town. You wasted your D1 vote. You have OMGUS'd not once, but twice.
@Wave - I acknowledge what you're thinking. And I agree, it doesn't make much sense for scum to do that. And that is the line of thinking that a somewhat experienced player would have. But this is a game full of noobs and Req has made damn sure that we know he's one of them. There's a reason that the things I have listed above are tried and true scumtells.
FUCKING JEFF WHERE ARE YOU
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On October 15 2014 08:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok I just read you're leaning coma and probably Jeff.
no shit
maybe once you take off those blinders because YOU WANT TO KILL ME OH SO BAD, you'll actually read my posts today.
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On October 15 2014 08:10 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 08:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 07:59 Requizen wrote:I've posted and responded and tried to help town, and repeatedly was told I was doing it wrong and that my posts were incorrect and stupid. So I'm trying something different. As it turns out, pretty much everything I do elicits a similar response. Both you and Soniv started tirades against me based on very shaky ideas and both tried to use misinformation and half truths to make me look as bad as possible. And then when that failed, you fell on "well he's different from day 1" as an excuse to keep going. Of course I am. Give me a fracking break. I'm voting Soniv because his pressure made no sense, as I noted here: + Show Spoiler +Just because I don't have a strong opinion on you, I'm scum. That is the entirety of your whole argument. That the shittiest reasoning I've seen in a long time, and I used to read GD. If you really are town and want to get the votes off of you, you should explain your own actions rather than make me repeat myself for the, what, fifth time?
All you're doing is making me think you're more scum. This isn't bandwagoning (as you can clearly see from this entire exchange, I've remained very neutral up until this point), this is me looking at your actions (blame shifting, misinformation, fearmongering) and seeing you turn red. Whether that's just a townie screaming at nothing until his face turns purple or a desperate mafia, I don't know. As you can read (and I even copied it for you so you don't have to go into my filter and miss it again), his constant poking at non-points and failing to use simple logic makes me think he's trying way too hard to get people against me. It moves him up on my scum list. And since I'd rather vote on someone who I think may go through (Soniv) rather than someone who I know no one else but Jeff will vote on (Wave), I put my vote there. I could break it down further for you, but sometimes I'm optimistic and like to think that you're not that soft in the head. But then, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm terrible at this, just as terrible as I am at every game I play. Except 40k. Where I'll go now. Be back in a few hours or so. Req, you posted stuff that you were clearly having opinions on, but your reasons for arriving at them was poor. You continually made and still make "I'm new/I'm bad at this" posts (this post is a case in point) and you're a huge martyr. You have been erratic and generally anti-town. You wasted your D1 vote. You have OMGUS'd not once, but twice. @Wave - I acknowledge what you're thinking. And I agree, it doesn't make much sense for scum to do that. And that is the line of thinking that a somewhat experienced player would have. But this is a game full of noobs and Req has made damn sure that we know he's one of them. There's a reason that the things I have listed above are tried and true scumtells. FUCKING JEFF WHERE ARE YOU Yeah and MB did the same thing. So did Asmo. So did coma (I think?) Are they all scum? I'm drawing the line where I think it needs to be drawn. I'm also done discussing this as it's not productive in my opinion. What I would like to know is who else is scum Soniv?
Req stepped way whatever line you're drawing. MB did do the same thing, you're right. And you agreed with me when he did it. Several others have done it as well here and there. It has been the entire theme of Req's posting history.
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On October 15 2014 08:39 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I was following the Wave-Soniv thing with a lot of interest, and Soniv is still my #1 most wanted. Right now, he's the only lynch other than me (but I'm innocent, I'm afraid) that tells us a lot.
What does it tell us Jeff? I want to hear it in your words, I don't want anyone else answering this question.
Soniv, on the other hand, has had a few important relationships with a lot of people, and I don't need to go into it since Ketchup described my feelings in a post yesterday ('bout those yung pockets). It confirms what I believe in that Wave and Ketchup are both town (Req that ketchup vote was just straight stupid).
I have already addressed the concerns about me "pocketing" people. They were all examples of me changing my reads on people, something wave has said I haven't done. The 3 examples were Alzadar, ketchup and wave, all three of which I have changed my reads on.
I still think Soniv right now as #1 scum, or at least best possible lynch at the moment. He says a lot, but in reality he never really does much when he points fingers. He tends to separate those posts. Also, he's doing the pretend rage thing that I called him out for earlier. That's scummy. Or, at the very least, it's fishy.
So I'm your #1 scum read for "pocketing" people. And to everyone claiming that I'm faking rage (wave, you're continually smearing your bullshit) - I am not mad, I am frustrated at how thick headed wave is playing. I am trying very hard to remain level headed because having two people yelling at each other over and over is not a good town atmosphere, and wave is trying to bait me really hard.
[/QUOTE]
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I don't like this post nearly as much as your first one.
On October 15 2014 10:40 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Okay. Back and ready to fight on.
After my post, Soniv's made decent plays as both scum and town (WIFOM, I know, just bear with me). He's marginally addressed my post: not drawing too much attention to it, but also no hard denial/OMGUS. That's a town reaction, especially so far from deadline. He's also found someone to go after, which is the town's good work should Req bleed red. That's another seemingly town interaction. However, the manipulation factor is still relevant. At this point, we all kinda know how Req plays: volatile states, prone to lashing out. It's emotional play because Req's a sensitive dude (and this is not meant to offend sir), and it's easily manipulatable (even ketchup got his goat, and that was probably unintentional). If Soniv wants to cover his tracks well, the best way to do it is to set off Req since it's unlikely he'll be able to get a rise out of Wave at this point, and no one else has proven to be so easy to control (again, don't mean to offend buddy). That also fits in with the "fake anger" that Alaric pointed out: play an emotional game, get easy emotional feedback. I think the intent of this is to get the focus away from Soniv and onto Req, and I think it's working. Which is dangerous (Wave sees that).
The meat of this paragraph is coming from the assumption that I am manipulating people, specifically Requizen. This is so ridiculously off base. I saw the intereactions between ketchup and Requizen. I then began pressing him as well. He shut down and became erratic under any hint of pressure. Everyone is excusing it because it's Requizen, and I'm calling bullshit.
And once again, you're parroting this "fake anger" thing. And I will repeat - Wave's play is frustrating me, and I'm trying to maintain a level headedness. You are taking Wave's misguided crosshairs as gospel and using that to justify something that is simply untrue.
Furthermore, Soniv's other reads are still lurkers like Coma and Ghandi. I genuinely don't believe that lynching a lurker does the town that much good atm. I think the scummers are at least more active than Coma, especially since they had a pretty great first cycle. When you're winning, you stay more invested. I believe any given lurker is most likely to be town, including Coma, despite his lack of good content (which pisses me off a lot, but doesn't necessarily make him scum).
Lynching a lurker D1 and lynching a lurker D2 are two wildly different things. The way things are going, I still maintain that the majority of this thread is town yelling at each other while the scum just sit quietly and get by with minimal posting.
Unfortunately for those of us on Soniv's trail, Jeff is another story. Jeff's posting looks fishy as fuck, fishy enough that most people smell stink coming from his direction, real or not. What's interesting to me about Soniv's perspectives is that there have been indications that (after Req) Soniv's next target is Coma, and not the more egregiously suspicious Jeff. For posterity (and I acknowledge this may have changed): Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 07:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 07:03 ketchup wrote:
Err just to make it bold:
##Unvote: Soniv
##Vote: Req at least someone is coming to their senses On October 15 2014 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Soniv the best thing you can do right now if you're town is do what you haven't done in like fucking ages.
Provide some reads.
HELP OUT THE TOWN in some way.
If you die and flip green this way we'll have a whole bunch to work with
Your vote/case on Req doesn't help you much in my eyes. There are a lot of people in this game still, and I have no idea what you think about most of them. When I think someone is town, I say that they're town. When I think someone is scum, I say that they're scum. There's no use in me stating that I have null reads on all of these scummy as fuck lurkers, just as you do. I have already said that my town reads are you, ketchup, 6ah (obviously), Alaric, and probably Alz. You know my biggest current scum read right now is Req, and somewhat lesser than that is Coma. I thought you were on to something with Asmo until he made his case on me; now I'm not so sure. The rest are a bunch of god damn lurkers that I don't know how to get a read on. I'll probably put my eye to one tonight to try and glean any semblance of usefulness. This whole thread feels like town yelling at each other for the most part while a bunch of people are watching. There's my stupid fucking list post, all of my reads can be found in the thread, as I know for a fact that I've said them all. Speaking of scummy as fuck lurkers...Jeff, where the fuck are you To me, this says that Jeff is sacrificial scum: the scum (read: Soniv) know he's going down eventually, but they're going to try and put off a lynch on him until they get as many lurky town-peeps as possible. Definitely Coma, but I don't know if it ends there. Maybe Soniv rounds back on Alz (but here my reasoning gets less event-based, so let's avoid mere ideas).
I lumped Jeff in with the "scummy as fuck lurkers" because, as said above, there is a larger than I'm comfortable with number of scummers hiding in the lurkers. Because let's face it, half of the players in this game are not posting enough. Earlier on, I believe I said something to the effect of "just because LT is dead doesn't mean you can get off scot free and not post anymore" to him, and so I'm trying to keep him honest. There are lots of lurkers, and I wish other people would be addressing them directly as well.
That bolded part at the end serves absolutely no purpose other than to shed me in a negative light. It's pure conjecture with no basis.
@Cixah - I think you can gather from my thoughts that I think Req is misguided town. If he's scum, it's a damn masterful job.
I don't understand why you'd be praising his scum play. He's playing so scummy that there's no way he's scum? And therefore it's masterful? Not a chance.
As far as participation goes, I have some thoughts to share post-game. However, now they'll just come off as noob whine or some other cancer, so it's not really the time nor place.
And you finish it off with a quick, harmless noob claim.
TL;DR - I'm still feeling good about my scum read on Soniv, so that's where I'll stay. LT wouldn't be the first person he's convinced he's town (that honor is mine), so I'm not letting up until this ugly feeling is gone, hopefully in the form of some red blood.
I didn't convince LT of shit, I haven't had to defend myself until today, after he was dead. He made that read based on what he saw of me in game, I don't really think I had many 1 on 1 interactions with him.
Welcome to my scum list Asmo. Your first case post was good. This one reeks of scum trying to keep the momentum on this bandwagon because wave is stirring up enough trouble to keep it viable.
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Jeff, you never answered my question:
On October 15 2014 08:54 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 08:39 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I was following the Wave-Soniv thing with a lot of interest, and Soniv is still my #1 most wanted. Right now, he's the only lynch other than me (but I'm innocent, I'm afraid) that tells us a lot. What does it tell us Jeff? I want to hear it in your words, I don't want anyone else answering this question.
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On October 15 2014 11:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 11:15 jcarlsoniv wrote:I don't like this post nearly as much as your first one. On October 15 2014 10:40 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Okay. Back and ready to fight on.
After my post, Soniv's made decent plays as both scum and town (WIFOM, I know, just bear with me). He's marginally addressed my post: not drawing too much attention to it, but also no hard denial/OMGUS. That's a town reaction, especially so far from deadline. He's also found someone to go after, which is the town's good work should Req bleed red. That's another seemingly town interaction. However, the manipulation factor is still relevant. At this point, we all kinda know how Req plays: volatile states, prone to lashing out. It's emotional play because Req's a sensitive dude (and this is not meant to offend sir), and it's easily manipulatable (even ketchup got his goat, and that was probably unintentional). If Soniv wants to cover his tracks well, the best way to do it is to set off Req since it's unlikely he'll be able to get a rise out of Wave at this point, and no one else has proven to be so easy to control (again, don't mean to offend buddy). That also fits in with the "fake anger" that Alaric pointed out: play an emotional game, get easy emotional feedback. I think the intent of this is to get the focus away from Soniv and onto Req, and I think it's working. Which is dangerous (Wave sees that). The meat of this paragraph is coming from the assumption that I am manipulating people, specifically Requizen. This is so ridiculously off base. I saw the intereactions between ketchup and Requizen. I then began pressing him as well. He shut down and became erratic under any hint of pressure. Everyone is excusing it because it's Requizen, and I'm calling bullshit. And once again, you're parroting this "fake anger" thing. And I will repeat - Wave's play is frustrating me, and I'm trying to maintain a level headedness. You are taking Wave's misguided crosshairs as gospel and using that to justify something that is simply untrue.
Furthermore, Soniv's other reads are still lurkers like Coma and Ghandi. I genuinely don't believe that lynching a lurker does the town that much good atm. I think the scummers are at least more active than Coma, especially since they had a pretty great first cycle. When you're winning, you stay more invested. I believe any given lurker is most likely to be town, including Coma, despite his lack of good content (which pisses me off a lot, but doesn't necessarily make him scum).
Lynching a lurker D1 and lynching a lurker D2 are two wildly different things. The way things are going, I still maintain that the majority of this thread is town yelling at each other while the scum just sit quietly and get by with minimal posting. Unfortunately for those of us on Soniv's trail, Jeff is another story. Jeff's posting looks fishy as fuck, fishy enough that most people smell stink coming from his direction, real or not. What's interesting to me about Soniv's perspectives is that there have been indications that (after Req) Soniv's next target is Coma, and not the more egregiously suspicious Jeff. For posterity (and I acknowledge this may have changed): On October 15 2014 07:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 07:03 ketchup wrote:
Err just to make it bold:
##Unvote: Soniv
##Vote: Req at least someone is coming to their senses On October 15 2014 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Soniv the best thing you can do right now if you're town is do what you haven't done in like fucking ages.
Provide some reads.
HELP OUT THE TOWN in some way.
If you die and flip green this way we'll have a whole bunch to work with
Your vote/case on Req doesn't help you much in my eyes. There are a lot of people in this game still, and I have no idea what you think about most of them. When I think someone is town, I say that they're town. When I think someone is scum, I say that they're scum. There's no use in me stating that I have null reads on all of these scummy as fuck lurkers, just as you do. I have already said that my town reads are you, ketchup, 6ah (obviously), Alaric, and probably Alz. You know my biggest current scum read right now is Req, and somewhat lesser than that is Coma. I thought you were on to something with Asmo until he made his case on me; now I'm not so sure. The rest are a bunch of god damn lurkers that I don't know how to get a read on. I'll probably put my eye to one tonight to try and glean any semblance of usefulness. This whole thread feels like town yelling at each other for the most part while a bunch of people are watching. There's my stupid fucking list post, all of my reads can be found in the thread, as I know for a fact that I've said them all. Speaking of scummy as fuck lurkers...Jeff, where the fuck are you To me, this says that Jeff is sacrificial scum: the scum (read: Soniv) know he's going down eventually, but they're going to try and put off a lynch on him until they get as many lurky town-peeps as possible. Definitely Coma, but I don't know if it ends there. Maybe Soniv rounds back on Alz (but here my reasoning gets less event-based, so let's avoid mere ideas).I lumped Jeff in with the "scummy as fuck lurkers" because, as said above, there is a larger than I'm comfortable with number of scummers hiding in the lurkers. Because let's face it, half of the players in this game are not posting enough. Earlier on, I believe I said something to the effect of "just because LT is dead doesn't mean you can get off scot free and not post anymore" to him, and so I'm trying to keep him honest. There are lots of lurkers, and I wish other people would be addressing them directly as well. That bolded part at the end serves absolutely no purpose other than to shed me in a negative light. It's pure conjecture with no basis.
@Cixah - I think you can gather from my thoughts that I think Req is misguided town. If he's scum, it's a damn masterful job.
I don't understand why you'd be praising his scum play. He's playing so scummy that there's no way he's scum? And therefore it's masterful? Not a chance.
As far as participation goes, I have some thoughts to share post-game. However, now they'll just come off as noob whine or some other cancer, so it's not really the time nor place.
And you finish it off with a quick, harmless noob claim. TL;DR - I'm still feeling good about my scum read on Soniv, so that's where I'll stay. LT wouldn't be the first person he's convinced he's town (that honor is mine), so I'm not letting up until this ugly feeling is gone, hopefully in the form of some red blood. I didn't convince LT of shit, I haven't had to defend myself until today, after he was dead. He made that read based on what he saw of me in game, I don't really think I had many 1 on 1 interactions with him. Welcome to my scum list Asmo. Your first case post was good. This one reeks of scum trying to keep the momentum on this bandwagon because wave is stirring up enough trouble to keep it viable. You and I need to talk some more I think. And other people had better pay attention to the conversation we have. As far as lurkers stealing away the game goes---I don't think that's fair any more as I mentioned above. There are people with less content volume and less quality, sure, but there's more than enough to go on by now, and even those with the smallest filters have posted a decent enough amount today.
Oh surely. Today's activity has been much better, but the majority of the posts made today have still been within a core group of people.
I don't really expect anyone to come even close to what I'm capable of churning out. If you want to eliminate 'lurkers,' the ABSOLUTE first one on your list should be Jeff, because he continually lurks until the pressure on him rises (with a small exception being he put forth some stuff today---though that is neither here nor there because it's entirely possible he just caught on that we caught on).
And look, I'm still trying to put pressure on him. I would love to get an answer from him to the question I've directed to him twice. But I also think that there is red blood in Req.
There may be something to the fact that there are those sitting by while I stir up shit, but then you have to tell me exactly where that's occurring. What's the context? How can you prove to me those people are scum? Because as I see it, if you escape the noose today it means it's Jeff's head and then it may just come back to you D3.
Either way, I think I get what I want today.
If you've been paying any semblance of attention at all today, then you already know the context. The first half of D2 has been spent with a bunch of people pushing me, myself and ketchup pushing Req, and some people pushing Jeff. The difference between them and me is that I'm really the only one at all fighting to keep me alive, and I'm the only one used really provided a halfway decent defense.
Question for you - why are you so quick to write off Req's play just because it's Req?
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addendum - I would be content with a jeff lynch, but right now I'm aiming at Req
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nah, fuck off, I'm done for the night
you can be patient and let the quiet ones talk for a while.
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On October 15 2014 12:42 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 12:38 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 15 2014 12:33 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
What im trying to show is that these "prod posts" are useless ways for people to seem helpful while never playing any cards. I think we should stop accepting these as legitimate discussion starters. What are you referring to? I'm saying this is what Soniv has been doing a lot, claiming that its "generating discussion." He reads things, says something about them, and moves on. This changes when he defends himself or when he went off against Req. His attack on Req actually is one of the few things tempting me to not vote Soniv. I certainly haven't seen a more convincing or useful lynch anywhere else though since everyone is staying so quiet and not making big connections with people.
Jeff, these "prod posts" are how you try and get information. How else would you expect scumhunting to happen? How are they not legitimate discussion starters? What have you done comparatively instead that I should emulate, since you seem to know so much about scumhunting.
And, again, I'm not sure how people expected my defense to be. But I'm done repeating myself.
On October 15 2014 18:19 Cixah wrote:
Wave, Soniv, and Ghandi.
I want your reads on Alzadar.
On October 15 2014 13:28 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Looking through Soniv's filter, he hasn't been nearly on top of you anymore. On day 1/night 1, he made remarks towards you relatively often. It's much less so recently, but that also loops around to the fact that you have had very little participation in moving guilt towards anyone yet. But at the same time, you haven't made many connections with people. So lynching you gets us nowhere again. Speak up more so we can tell if you're town or not.
Maybe I've been off Alzadar's case because during N1 I said that I had changed my read on him to more of a green color? I have not paid too much attention to him during D2, but I've been a little preoccupied with defending myself and trying to actually find scum in Req and now you Jeff.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 14 2014 07:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:Y'know, I come out of Alzadar's filter actually thinking he's more townie. There were some posts I remember that I thought were surely scum leaning, that register to me differently this time around. Example: Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 04:46 Alzadar wrote:
Bandwagon? I was the first to suspect Cixah, decided to actually vote cause Wave seems antsy to have us vote, and I trust him as our fearless Townie leader.
Strategic talk: if you hold the oldest vote on someone (as Ghandhi did), you shouldn't change it arbitrarily, you're giving up tiebreak power. First time around, the first part of the post seemed odd and sheepish to me - reflecting what I said earlier about him saying things to satisfy the thread. But before this post, he put Wave at probably town, and so this reads more as someone who is collaborating with someone he kinda sorta might trust a little bit. Also, the second part exemplifies another quality of his general posting. He's been talking about setup stuff here and there (a fair amount of it earlier on), and usually it's not very productive or helpful and often distracts town. But rereading, he asks coherent questions that apply to the game flow, they show that he's invested in the goings on and is paying attention (despite backwards canadiansgiving). His filter comes off with more of a town vibe than I expected it to. It did remind me of two things as well. 1. The IC claim was at a really weird time. That's right, I'm lookin' at you 6ah. I really hope that confirmation comes through or D2 is going to be very boring lol. 2. I want to take a look at Ket Chup. He's someone who I haven't really noticed even though I know he's been posting quite a bit. He will probably be my next focus. Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 07:39 Lord Tolkien wrote:
If wav and sonib are mommy and daddy, what does that make me? The young twink that daddy's having an affair with? the mistress
I am honestly baffled at the number of people who don't think I'm defending myself properly, but also at the number of people who just seem to not be reading my posts.
It is pretty clear at this point that you guys are going to let Req pass just because he's Req, and I really hope it's not our downfall. I think you're all being foolish. But between last night and this morning, I feel so much more on board with a Jeff lynch. The only real recent interest he's shown in lynch targets has been to say "that guy on the chopping block is scummier than me, lynch him instead".
##unvote
##vote Jeff
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so...you're claiming poisoner Alaric? Is this something that you've said before and I (and seemingly everyone else) has missed it?
You seem very nonchalant about it, I'm confused.
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EPT
