EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LIX
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
Looks like i will have time to play this after all. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
Just making an introduction post, as i am gonna go to sleep after this and won't be posting for a while. This is my third mafia game on TL, though i haven't played in almost 2 years. I have played a lot of mafia irl though, so i hope i am up to date. Hope we have a good time playing this! | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 07 2014 15:13 loafery wrote: I first thought there was 5/6 blue roles. I thought it was easy game. ff showed me it wasn't so. I admit my mistake and ff retracts his suspicions. If I were scum why would I even think of getting an easy win. I would havent mentioned anything at all. You're coming off as very over reactive to my posts. It's all good but I have done nothing wrong. Scum is trying to look as much of a town as possible, which includes trying to look like you are looking for a town win. As someone who has played this before, you should be well aware of this. Hell, even newcomers now this, so why do you use this faillogic? This is very scum behavior in my eyes. On October 07 2014 15:59 loafery wrote: Really? would I be so blunt about it? Don't you think mafia would rather stay low and not post anything of worth to the discussion than being so open and starting discussion in any way possible. Your talking about very high tactics that would need a high skill cap to achieve for me to get into as many town circles. And I was on the radar from the start so I failed in going below the radar and am the center of attention. I think my reasons are legit in getting town reads from ff. He thought I gave valid reasons and realizing a scum mindset wouldn't act this way backed off. I think scum mindset there would pursue the matter no matter what because I did have dirt on my hands in proposing a mass claim and ff's actions to follow the post was very townesque to me. He had valid arguements against me to which I admit I was wrong and that was that. But the vibes I'm getting from you are...you are really trying hard to lynch me no matter what. I see you have your reasons for which I have answered, but I don't understand what more I can do to prove my innocence. Keep questioning more if you will. Anything I missed? There are many different ways to playing as mafia. Establishing yourself as open and creating discussion is very effective in lowering any suspicion. Also, as stated before, creating town circles does not need high skill caps. The last paragraph is also a little puzzling. Do you think abuse is mafia? Or is it simply a kind of dirt throw back at him for voting at you? On October 07 2014 16:20 loafery wrote: Is there any reason why I can't call myself town? Those two seemed to read me as town so I followed suit. Calling yourself town and saying that you are "confirmed" town is two different things, and we need to make that distinction. I'm gonna post more when i get home and read more thoroughly trough the thread. I just wanted to make something quick in the meantime, as getting home might take a while. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
As of now loafey is still highest on my scum list but im not sure if he is just a newbie/bad player or scum. Im gonna see more of his posts before I decide to vote for him or not. For now, i will settle with this. ##FoS: loafery | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 03:29 Superbia wrote: Mind sharing who else is on your scum list? Right now the list is just loafey, but this is because other people haven't been as active. As ff said, this game is moving too slow, and that is because people haven't been active at all. We still have players that haven't said anything beyond their first day post, which was not that much. @Fecalfeast: I think the reason people have gone after loafrey so hard is because there really isn't that much else to go on. His play has been the most scummy like, and that is probably why everyone is going after him. Right now, i really don't have anyone else in mind at all as scum. If someone does find someone else scummy, please share. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 04:19 Rad wrote: Isn't that pretty much the only job that town has? To find things that are scummy and pursue them. Any reason you're asking others to do that for you? You say no one else seems scummy to you, are you suggesting that it's probably loafery or the lurkers that are scum? Why are you taking the easy route here? It wasn't meant as others doing it for me, rather that others should contribute. Right now there are like 4 people that has only like 3 posts on this thread. I can't really find mafia if i don't have much to go on. I did as much as i could with the info i had at the time. No, im saying that i haven't found anything scummy with the people that have posted other than loafrey. That dosen't mean all mafia are either him or the lurkers, just that i have not found anything suspicious about anyone else. Im not taking any easy route, I have done as much as I can with the given information. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 04:44 Superbia wrote: You found out that your arguments were already used by others to push loaf. Do you like the people who pushed on loaf for the same reason? Yeah, abuse is probably the one that had most of my arguments already written. I do however not share all of abuses opinions and do believe that he is pushing for loaf too hard. I would for instance not vote on him this early, as it is definetly too early to prove that he is a scum. Better to simply do a FoS, as it will give an indicitation of what you think of the person, but not have all dirt throwback that often comes with voting on someone. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 04:58 Rad wrote: Look. You're saying loafrey is the most scummy right now, and you can't judge the 2 lurkers because they've given no content. Ok. So if 2 of those 3 are mafia, it makes sense that there wouldn't be much else scummy going on - at least not intentionally. If one or both mafia are not included in that set of 3 people, then there's some scummy shit going on already. Any reason you're claiming there's not much to go on when you're not convinced that at least 1 of the lurkers is mafia? Every move the mafia makes does not have an obvious scum tell. One of the people who have posted might be mafia, but in my eyes i haven't seen anything to tell me that they are yet. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 06:08 Fecalfeast wrote: What it looks to me like super was really asking is what you think of abuse based on abuse's reads. You say he is pushing a little too hard, why? Mostly it was because of the vote. But i also think that some of his arguments are a little more hardline than mine. I share most of abuses opinions on loaf, but i think the biggest thing we differ on is the whole loaf asking about roles thing. I really think that loaf was merely confused and asking about the rules when he said we all should claim roles, and I believe him when he says it was like that on another game. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 09:53 Superbia wrote: All right. So zen is probably scum here. Why does zen think he had to do a quick analysis on loaf here? Why does he not exercise a little patience and make a better case later on? Why does he feel the need to get a push out on someone quickly (before others)? This feels like mafia trying to get some easy town points by getting some easy reads out. Town has no need to rush here. There is no EoD in sight. Mafia wants to appear townie, how do they do that? By getting out easy reads and easy pushes. This is one of them. Hence, zen is scum. So there is a theme running through zen's post that I want to specifically look at: Zen did not read the thread well. This comes up in a later post during which he exclaims: Now, assuming this is true (more on this later), my point of "why did you need to feel the need to rush out a push" becomes more prominent. After all, abuse was already starting a push on loaf. Why would town feel a need to push on loaf here? It's already being done. Again, this is scum trying to get easy town points. This leads me to a contradiction between zen's two posts. You see, zen said that he did not read the thread well before he posted his initial post, but in said post he says: This means that zen did read abuse's push on loaf. It was, after all, abuse who stated "saying that you are confirmed townie is very scummy behavior". Moreover, the behaviour "after" was interaction with abuse, which zen claimed he did not read (though he clearly did). He even quotes abuse's push in his push. What is zen doing!? This is such a blatant lie and super scummy. Again, zen is scum. Now, during this entire push zen stays absolutely non-committed in his read. In the end zen only "Finger of Suspicion"s him, which honestly translates to "I will join this wagon if it takes off, lol" for me. If zen is not at all confident in his read, why is he making a push? Again, zen wants to fetch town points here but at the same time does not want to get any shit if he flips town. It feels like zen is making the push here so he doesn't get pinged out for inactivity, which mafia is terrified of. The above reasons are why I am voting for zen and I'm expecting town to vote with me. Let's fucking hit scum d1. ##Vote: The_Zen_Man Ok, so this is probably the first post that Superbia did that had much content. His first point is saying that I should not have posted at that time and rather waited. But what exactly does he expect town to do? Doing analysis and reads on people helps the discussion go forward and helps in scumhunting. Not wanting this is very suspicious. He later points out that i say that i did not read trough the thread well and that all of my arguments had already been written by abuse. First of all, i had atleast one argument that abuse had not written about. Super decides to convinietly ignore this to satisfy his case, something not very townlike . I will write more about this in my defense, but right now, i want to address another very important fact. Not long after my post breshke post something that is also similliar to what abuse wrote about loaf. He even admits to that fact below: On October 07 2014 23:33 Superbia wrote: Tbh Breshke just kind of did the same. Why not go after breshke or simply critize him for doing what basically you accuse me of doing? He fits in to what you say I did, repeating what abuse said and doing basically what abuse is doing, but he goes unmentioned by you. It feels like you just went trough the thread and just decided to focus on the first person that you could find without even looking at the similiraties. This is made even more suspicious by the fact that you had posted basically nothing of worth before this and get called out on it. So you decide to find something quick and just rush a vote, even though you critize me for being to rash. Another thing in the vote post of note is the fact that superbia says that i should not rush a push on loaf, and be more patient, but then he turns around his view at the end of the post and says that i am uncommited. This is such a strange contradiction. Also, breshke was even more uncommited than me in his posts, but super decided to ignore this and just focus on me. Again, this is becaue super needed a case fast, and decided to basically try to make one that was questionable at best. On October 07 2014 22:11 Superbia wrote: It's mostly a gut read plus I'm happy with people pushing on him so far, so I'll let you know when it matters. This is another very important point. He says he thinks loaf is town, but will give no arguments as to why. In fact, he has given really nothing on worth until someone mentioned this, then suddenly comes up with the case against me. Im fairly certain that super is mafia, way more than i was of loaf. ##Vote: Superbia | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 09:53 Superbia wrote: All right. So zen is probably scum here. Why does zen think he had to do a quick analysis on loaf here? Why does he not exercise a little patience and make a better case later on? Why does he feel the need to get a push out on someone quickly (before others)? This feels like mafia trying to get some easy town points by getting some easy reads out. Town has no need to rush here. There is no EoD in sight. Mafia wants to appear townie, how do they do that? By getting out easy reads and easy pushes. This is one of them. Hence, zen is scum. So there is a theme running through zen's post that I want to specifically look at: Zen did not read the thread well. This comes up in a later post during which he exclaims: Now, assuming this is true (more on this later), my point of "why did you need to feel the need to rush out a push" becomes more prominent. After all, abuse was already starting a push on loaf. Why would town feel a need to push on loaf here? It's already being done. Again, this is scum trying to get easy town points. This leads me to a contradiction between zen's two posts. You see, zen said that he did not read the thread well before he posted his initial post, but in said post he says: This means that zen did read abuse's push on loaf. It was, after all, abuse who stated "saying that you are confirmed townie is very scummy behavior". Moreover, the behaviour "after" was interaction with abuse, which zen claimed he did not read (though he clearly did). He even quotes abuse's push in his push. What is zen doing!? This is such a blatant lie and super scummy. Again, zen is scum. Now, during this entire push zen stays absolutely non-committed in his read. In the end zen only "Finger of Suspicion"s him, which honestly translates to "I will join this wagon if it takes off, lol" for me. If zen is not at all confident in his read, why is he making a push? Again, zen wants to fetch town points here but at the same time does not want to get any shit if he flips town. It feels like zen is making the push here so he doesn't get pinged out for inactivity, which mafia is terrified of. The above reasons are why I am voting for zen and I'm expecting town to vote with me. Let's fucking hit scum d1. ##Vote: The_Zen_Man I said this in my previous posts, but town is supposed to post analysis and do reads on people. This is what town do. Mafia does not want this, they want to town to have as little to go on as possible. And regarding why I posted it when I knew abuse had critisized loaf is because I wanted to analyse it from fresh eyes. It's always better to hear others point of view on the matter. He then says I lied about knowing about abuses case. I admitted to the fact that i had not read trough the whole post carefully, but super then completely distorts this. He says I lied about that fact because i knew about abuses case, somehow implying that i have to know either all or none of abuses case. This makes no sense whatsoever. Either super is stupid or trying to get a case going, but it is possible for someone to read some and not all of his posts. On October 07 2014 15:13 loafery wrote: Show nested quote + I first thought there was 5/6 blue roles. I thought it was easy game. ff showed me it wasn't so. I admit my mistake and ff retracts his suspicions. If I were scum why would I even think of getting an easy win. I would havent mentioned anything at all. You're coming off as very over reactive to my posts. It's all good but I have done nothing wrong. Scum is trying to look as much of a town as possible, which includes trying to look like you are looking for a town win. As someone who has played this before, you should be well aware of this. Hell, even newcomers now this, so why do you use this faillogic? This is very scum behavior in my eyes. I mentioned earlier that I had a argument that abuse had not made and this is the one I was talking about. To my knowledge abuse never mentioned the fact that loaf should now that scum would want to look like they want a town win. This creates a big hole in supers argument, as most of his votepost is based on me saying the same thing as abuse. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 21:42 abuse wrote: Welcome back to the thread! I am not sure what this post was, basically it just looked like pointing fingers at Breshke, and voting for Superbia. Looking forward to your defensem, addresing all questions that were posed to you, including why did you lie about reading/not reading my posts. I was referring to the fact that breske was in basically the same situation as me, yet super decides to completely ignore this and hard focuses me. I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone, just thought it was really suspicious that he decides to completely ignore him. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
What did I say about loaf asking about roles thing? How can you disagree with it, while implying that you think what he did was fine, when I clearly said that I do not care whatsoever about that part of his posting, and that what buggs me is the confirmed town thing and the post after that? This is what i was referring to: On October 07 2014 16:55 abuse wrote: He did a scummy move by telling everyone to claim, then he took his words back, because he misinterpreted the game setup (which we have no real proof of, and this can also be faked) which makes you read him as town, instead of null, and then he pushes forward the fact that he is confirmed town, while trying to buddy you and superbia. So what is your stance on him now? Are you reading him as town now? Null? Scum? Also, as you yourself pointed out previously - what do you think of this concerning his alignment ? | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 08 2014 22:13 abuse wrote: What you implied was that I put much emphasis on thinking that he is scum for not understanding the game setup. What I did, and what you quoted, was asked why does the person read a person more townie than before, because he misunderstood the setup. I did no statements in that post. Nothing that could show what Is my stance on loaf based on that. I asked a question to another player what they think of it. Also - as for your defense above, I do not think it is a good defense. You say you wanted to post with a fresh perspective, yet you quote both mine and others posts in your case on loafery. And you kind of read my posts about him before, but apparently not really. This does not constitute a fresh perspective. If you decided to read what I said about him, you should have noticed what I had said, and that what you are saying is the exact same thing. Why would you even post a huge case, without reading the entire thread up until that point? How can you not be sure that you did not miss anything, and that your case is not filled with flaws, if you did not read things properly? You say he did a "scummy move" by telling everyone to claim. Maybe you meant something different, but you did call his move scummy and to me that felt like you critisized him based on that move. (the move being the whole role thing) I quoted your post once because i saw that you also wrote about the confirmed town thing. I never quoted anyone else. I only quoted you because i felt the "confirmed town" thing was pretty serious and wanted to emphasize this. And i read some of your posts, yes, but not all. I don't know what is unclear about that. Also, as i pointed out in my defense, by post was not exactly the same, i had atleast one argument that you did not. And the reason for posting a case without reading the whole thing was simply because i wasn't gonna post in a while and had an oppurtunity then. I clearly said that I hadn't read the whole thread carefully, but I did still come up with an argument you did not so I think that my post was worthwhile, even if it only was one argument. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
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On October 08 2014 22:48 abuse wrote: I said it was scummy, and then , in the same post, right after that, basically said that him retracting those words soon after should have brought him back to null, but fecal read him townie after that. So what you thought was wrong. For making everyone's life simpler, please show that argument. That didn't end very well did it. Your post was worthwhile, but not because it was one argument. It was worthwhile for the reason why you are under pressure now. If you are actually town, hopefully you take something from this for next game. At the moment, I personally, am not swayed by your defense. If you want to be cleared, give input on someone who you think is really scummy. Your case on superbia, at best(though I do not even think it does that) just plunks a few holes in his case on you, it does not make superbia scum, so your vote on him does not seem justified, and just feels like you are trying to get back at him. Do you really think superbia is scum, just because he didn't treat you and breshke the same way? You and breshke were not in the exact same shoes, even if you were, why are you yourself not looking at breshke? do you really think that "Superbia is scum, even moreso than loaf". I mean really? Moreso than loaf, even though you made a case like this on him, and objectively your case on superbia is only there because he made a case on you. What you are doing now, is you are making posts without reading the thread properly, and this is causing confusion. This is anti-town and fits the scum agenda. That is why you are being voted for.. Me and breshke were in the same shoes, we both had post similliar to yours, difference is that i actually had a new argument as was more commited, something super says was lacking in me. And the reason i don't go after breshke should be obvious. I don't think he is scum because he made that post, and not simply because we both had similliar posts, but because i saw nothing wrong with either of them. If super thinks i am scum because i had a post similliar to yours, he should atleast not discriminate when he does this. Instead he tries to recruit breshke to his cause and hard focuses me. Honestly, supers vote on me seems much less justified. His main argument right now is that my post was exactly like yours and that I had read your posts beforehand. That is why it is important to note that i had my own argument and that it was not exactly the same, as this is a very big hole in his argument against me. My case on super could not be made before because he had basically said nothing up until that. I can't really get a read on someone who dosen't say anything of worth can I? Another important point that i forgot to add to my case against him is the time of when he posted his votepost. He had me on the thread for quite a while and posted no case or gave any indication of what he thinks of me. Suddenly he gets called out on not adding much and he suddenly finds me scummy? Even though i had not posted until my conversation with super on the thread? This is concrete proof that he basically just went trough the thread until he could find something questionable and try to make a case out of it. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 07 2014 21:03 The_Zen_Man wrote: Hi guys, sorry for being absent for a while. I'm afraid i'm going to be absent a few hours after this as well, but after that I can play for real. I thought i should do a quick analysis on loafrey, as he seems the most scummy to my eyes. First of all, i don't particularly find it scummy that he was confused about the rules, and i kind of buy that the setup in a previous game, claiming was beneficial. But as stated before, saying that you are confirmed townie is very scummy behavior. It's almost like you rush to being as most town as possible. It's especially suspecting when you say it so early in the game. It might have been poorly worded or misinterpreted by others, but some of your behaviour after is also kind of strange. Scum is trying to look as much of a town as possible, which includes trying to look like you are looking for a town win. As someone who has played this before, you should be well aware of this. Hell, even newcomers now this, so why do you use this faillogic? This is very scum behavior in my eyes. There are many different ways to playing as mafia. Establishing yourself as open and creating discussion is very effective in lowering any suspicion. Also, as stated before, creating town circles does not need high skill caps. The last paragraph is also a little puzzling. Do you think abuse is mafia? Or is it simply a kind of dirt throw back at him for voting at you? Calling yourself town and saying that you are "confirmed" town is two different things, and we need to make that distinction. I'm gonna post more when i get home and read more thoroughly trough the thread. I just wanted to make something quick in the meantime, as getting home might take a while. Here is the argument. The argument in question is below the first loaf quote. Had the quote included in the defense, but bad formatting made it unclear. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
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On October 09 2014 00:33 Superbia wrote: This is one of the main issues I have with your post. Town does not care about posting analyses and giving reads. Town cares about catching scum. Posting analyses and giving reads is a result of trying to reach this goal. Your post on loaf seemed constructed to look townie, but it did not feel like you had the goal of catching scum. You were not looking to pressure loaf nor were you looking to lynch him. Mafia wants to hide behind townie posts. Your initial post was made to look townie, not to find scum. Hence you're scum. Mafia does not care that much about disrupting town play, their main goal is not to get caught. When you were analyzing loaf, you were looking at the interaction between loaf and abuse, right? Why do you feel confident making a post on loaf when you have apparently not analyzed the rest of the interactions? Do you not feel like this is important? I honestly did not care much about your argument. I think it was pretty bad. You even believe that he was genuine about the whole "another game" thing, which means your argument doesn't make that much sense. For you to believe that loaf was saying "I first thought there was 5/6 blue roles. I thought it was easy game." is disingenuous you need to believe that the "I had such a setup during another game" was planned and fake, which you didn't. Let me make one thing perfectly clear here: you sheeping abuse's reads PINGED me out. It is not the meat of my argument, though it does act as a foundation. Here are my arguments against you: - You had no intention of achieving anything with your post. Your post was simply made to make you look townie. This is mafia behavior. - You either: 1) did not analyze the game fully before making a post or 2) blatantly lied about not reading abuse's push. I honestly think it's a bit of both. Both is scummy. - You felt a need to rush content out, town cares about catching scum, not getting content out. This is another mafia thing to do. One question Zen: Why did you make the post on loaf? Town cares very much about giving analysis and giving reads, as this is the primary way we figure out who is mafia. I pressured loaf with my FoS, but throwing votes that early often leads to dirt trowback. My first post was an analysis on loaf to try to figure out whether he is town or not. That is what town does. You on the other hand decided to simply say that you think he is town without giving any reasons or arguments as to why. This is what scum does. You can call it bad all you want, it is an argument that is unique to my post, which makes mine different than abuses. Simply calling it bad without telling why is simply bad playing. And how can you critisize me for something you yourself did? You did not react on the 5/6 blue roles thing either. For the record, I did consider him lying but his explanation about it seemed credible, which is why I believed him. Why wouldn't i want to do analysis on people to try to find out who the mafia is? Are you seriously telling people to not post reads and analysis if they do not meet a certain standard? If you are, then please explain why you haven't said anything about breshke doing what you essentially accuse me of doing? His post is more like abuses than mine and he is much less commited, but for some reason you completely ignore this and go solely after me? Townies do not ignore facts so they better fit with their pictures, scum do. Also, one question super: Why did you say loaf was town without giving any explanation as to why? | ||
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The_Zen_Man
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On October 09 2014 02:52 Superbia wrote: If you were looking to pressure loaf with your push, then why did you give abuse shit for pushing on loaf "too hard" (i.e. pressuring him)? Moreover, what did you get from pressuring loaf? I'm genuinely curious. The argument is bad because it relies on the fact that loaf planned the entire thing ahead. I believe loaf was being genuine when talking about being mistaken and having a similar game as to the one he thought this was, you believed the same. As such, your argument falls apart. Then who is the mafia zen? What did you find out with your analysis? You reach 0 conclusions and you have effectively put 0 pressure on loaf. There are a few differences between breshke's post and yours: - Breshke acknowledges the current push already going on. - Furthermore, you obviously either lied or rushed your push on loaf. Now, I'm not reading breshke as town, but I am reading you as more scummy. Hence I'm pushing and voting on you. What do you even think of breshke? I have dropped several indirect hints as to why I think loaf is town. Most were directed at rad, iirc: Mafia will almost never try to make such a play. The risk is way too high and the chance of getting a reward is way too low. Read my filter. Now, zen, you say that you pushed on loaf to pressure him. Which leads me to two questions: 1) Why did you give abuse shit for pushing on loaf "too hard" (i.e. pressuring him)? 2) What did you get out of pressuring loaf? 3) What kind of pressure did your post add? Now you are just outright lying. I never gave abuse any shit pushing loaf too hard, just that i simply do not believe early votes are good. What i basically wanted from loaf was a response, see how he reacted. That was not what my argument was, did you even read it? It seems like you are doing exaclty what you say im doing. My argument was that loaf had as defense that he was town because he mentioned a quick townwin: On October 07 2014 15:13 loafery wrote: I first thought there was 5/6 blue roles. I thought it was easy game. ff showed me it wasn't so. I admit my mistake and ff retracts his suspicions. If I were scum why would I even think of getting an easy win. I would havent mentioned anything at all. You're coming off as very over reactive to my posts. It's all good but I have done nothing wrong. He failed to realize that mafia will ofcourse try to look as town as possible and also appear to want a townie win. This is pretty basic stuff, and since he had played mafia before i called him out on this faillogic. Now it seems like you are just throwing big statements around and trying to look good. Obviously i think mafia is the one im voting for, though i will post my read on another player i find scummy before deadline. Also, please tell me why you are reading me as more scum than breshke? Its very scummy of you to simply say that you find me more scummy than him without an explanation. | ||
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