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On September 04 2014 14:37 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 14:30 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2014 14:28 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 14:24 slOosh wrote:
Some people find it really easy to ease into games while others build into it. Both as town and as scum. Furthermore it's a themed setup where everyone has a role, so maybe "playing like blue" is kicking in. My point is that shutting down things so early in a 72 hour Day 1 doesn't really help us since you don't know if you just shut down scum or town. All you know is you shut them down.
I'm actually inclined to think gobbleygook and sylencia more townish for their setup discussions. agree with gobble, not sylencia. Cool. Could you elaborate on the difference you perceive? Because I'm of the opinion their approaches to it are similar. didn't i just say the difference in my previous post? like literally the post before this? (actually 2 i think)
Oh ... I guess I misunderstood. I think the setup discussion is townish, and I'm reading gobbleygook and sylencia town for their setup discussion. Not null, but town. It looks like they want to figure out what's best for town with regards to how we apply blue actions. I'm not bothered by the lack of substantive reads at this point, since the day just started. On that note, they are trying to get something in thread going instead of just sitting back and waiting.
Do you read the setup talk null? If so, what about gobbleygook do you read town?
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On September 04 2014 14:50 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 14:42 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2014 14:37 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 14:30 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2014 14:28 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 14:24 slOosh wrote:
Some people find it really easy to ease into games while others build into it. Both as town and as scum. Furthermore it's a themed setup where everyone has a role, so maybe "playing like blue" is kicking in. My point is that shutting down things so early in a 72 hour Day 1 doesn't really help us since you don't know if you just shut down scum or town. All you know is you shut them down.
I'm actually inclined to think gobbleygook and sylencia more townish for their setup discussions. agree with gobble, not sylencia. Cool. Could you elaborate on the difference you perceive? Because I'm of the opinion their approaches to it are similar. didn't i just say the difference in my previous post? like literally the post before this? (actually 2 i think) Oh ... I guess I misunderstood. I think the setup discussion is townish, and I'm reading gobbleygook and sylencia town for their setup discussion. Not null, but town. It looks like they want to figure out what's best for town with regards to how we apply blue actions. I'm not bothered by the lack of substantive reads at this point, since the day just started. On that note, they are trying to get something in thread going instead of just sitting back and waiting. Do you read the setup talk null? If so, what about gobbleygook do you read town? i think talking about "optimal play" and the setup is an easy thing to do as either alignment and appear to be contributing
I would disagree on this point, because if I'm having a tough time trying to figure out optimal strategy for town, then scum would have an even tougher time trying to optimize strategy for scum, and then disguise it as optimal strategy for town. Thus compared to a regular game's heuristics of setup talk = scummy, I'd wager setup talk = towny (at least until this post, now that I've said it who knows), especially since Sylencia isn't really known for his independent mafia play. Even the 30 minute gap between his first two posts looks like he was thinking about the suggestion, and potential flaws / shortcomings, and then came up with a modified suggestion. Looks quite good to me. But enough of that.
Let's move on to some other reads.
On September 04 2014 08:14 Koshi wrote:
HaruRH, if you believe that Koshi or rayn are the most important people.
and
if you believe scum will kill the grail owner.
why
do you want to give the grail to Koshi or rayn?
This feels a bit like a loaded question to me (like, there is no good way for anyone to answer it). You either give the grail to towny town (who might get shot), or kinda town (?), or scum (??).
What's your take of Koshi's suspicion of HaruRH (the suspicion itself or the way he did it or whatever)?
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On September 04 2014 22:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 14:24 slOosh wrote:
Some people find it really easy to ease into games while others build into it. Both as town and as scum. Furthermore it's a themed setup where everyone has a role, so maybe "playing like blue" is kicking in. My point is that shutting down things so early in a 72 hour Day 1 doesn't really help us since you don't know if you just shut down scum or town. All you know is you shut them down.
I'm actually inclined to think gobbleygook and sylencia more townish for their setup discussions. Explain the bolded. They gave bad advice and/or didn't read the setup and certainly didn't help finding mafia. Also explain how setup discussion is townish? If there was a way to break the setup this setup would not exist. You can't gain anything if you discuss the setup before D3.
There are things you can do in this setup to gain an advantage that aren't necessarily breaking the setup. For instance, in Neat & Tidy you could have suggested possible vig shots, and it would be good advice even though it doesn't break anything. Same here - from what I see gobbleygook and Sylencia discussed how the town roles could be best used. Regardless of the objective quality of their plans, it's their efforts in trying to help town through setup means that I'm reading townish.
From Ver's How to Improve Analysis
On August 26 2010 13:07 Ver wrote:
As for plans, you don't always need one but there are many successful and poor plans that have been discussed and used over the past several games. More than the actual plan itself, the planning stage is more important as a mechanism to get useful information about people that you would not otherwise see. After all, the main contributors to the plan this game (not surprisingly at all), were entirely innocent! In addition, several mafia stood out as trying to appear 'supportive' of the plan while not making any real contributions to it.
I'm not promoting setup talk in the sense of "hey I'm pretty sure there's a way to break this setup let's do that". But I'm not against setup talk in the sense of "oh I can get some reads on these people doing setup talk". Which is where my gobbleygook and Sylencia townish reads are stemming from - not that their thoughts help break the setup, but the way that they contribute their thoughts look like they are trying to help town.
Now notice this. I've called these two people townish several times over now. Here's a good place for discussion. If you think these guys are scum, let us know! And don't just say "I think they are scum". Compile the posts that stick out the most and present them. If you want, to me specifically. That way I am put into a position where I am responsible for my stance. If you think I'm scum making up easy town reads, show that they should actually be scum reads and that I'm making up fluff.
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Sure thing Robik, just clarifying questions people have about me and setup stuffs.
On September 05 2014 00:26 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 14:50 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 14:42 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2014 14:37 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 14:30 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2014 14:28 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 14:24 slOosh wrote:
Some people find it really easy to ease into games while others build into it. Both as town and as scum. Furthermore it's a themed setup where everyone has a role, so maybe "playing like blue" is kicking in. My point is that shutting down things so early in a 72 hour Day 1 doesn't really help us since you don't know if you just shut down scum or town. All you know is you shut them down.
I'm actually inclined to think gobbleygook and sylencia more townish for their setup discussions. agree with gobble, not sylencia. Cool. Could you elaborate on the difference you perceive? Because I'm of the opinion their approaches to it are similar. didn't i just say the difference in my previous post? like literally the post before this? (actually 2 i think) Oh ... I guess I misunderstood. I think the setup discussion is townish, and I'm reading gobbleygook and sylencia town for their setup discussion. Not null, but town. It looks like they want to figure out what's best for town with regards to how we apply blue actions. I'm not bothered by the lack of substantive reads at this point, since the day just started. On that note, they are trying to get something in thread going instead of just sitting back and waiting. Do you read the setup talk null? If so, what about gobbleygook do you read town? i think talking about "optimal play" and the setup is an easy thing to do as either alignment and appear to be contributing. i also don't really think it yields much alignment indicative information unless someone is quite obviously intentionally feeding a bad line of play to everyone else. something which i would like to believe almost everyone who plays on these forums would be smart enough not to do as mafia. but i have seen and done a lot of stupid stuff so i guess nothing is outside of the realm of possibility. i think syl is scummy right now because all he has talked about is setup, when challenged he got whiny and defensive, and he claimed to not have time and spent what he had in defense rather than actually trying to find scum in any way. conversely, gobble faced basically the exact same challenges and just plodded on ahead. plus i liked his vehement stance against robik's suggestion to mass claim in angel thread. if he were mafia i don't think he would come out with that strong of a sentiment against it that quickly. I like the majority of this post, until the red. I think it's still a town!ritoky post -- although i don't think i've seen a ritoky mafia game, but the last sentence still sucks because it's a shitty shitty conclusion to draw.
What's wrong with the red part? I think it's very reasonable and I agree with him.
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My questions make sense to me and help me form my reads (first establishing some town ones, then later scum ones).
But if you don't like it, go ahead and throw me a fastball Oats. I'm ready (but soon though I have lunch appointment coming up).
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Oh boy this is exciting, I was waiting for this. Hey Damdred. What are your three biggest thoughts right now?
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Sure thing Oats. I'll refer to posts but not quote them to save space.
gobbledydook - I asked the grail question since I found it interesting he would give it to geript, despite having opposite reads on HaruRH. This makes me iffy. Later he talks about setup stuff. This looks like town trying to help figure out what's best. When discussing Angel QT stuff, gobbley takes a very strong stance against Robik's suggestion. It felt very natural. I asked Robik about ritoky's read into this because I take that situation as a town tell for gobbley.
Sylencia - similar thing with gobbley, his effort to help with setup looks genuine.
ritoky - the grail question was an opener, just to get chat going. It might be an easy question, but scum might have a tough time answering softballs so can't hurt to try. The little chat we had felt pretty good.
Koshi - I was initially concerned with Koshi for the "loaded question", because it could have been scum baiting out other people to do the accusing for him, since he points out what HaruRH says, but then let other people talk. However Koshi is someone who revvs into gear as game progresses so I'm not really too concerned right now.
IAmRobik - He plays "real time mafia" playstyle, and it feels very fluid and natural. A stronger read.
geript - Not too sure on him, but seems to be meshing with Robik on several points, so I assume should one of them be mafia, the other would notice and speak up.
yamato77 - did he roll scum again for like the 3rd time or something? Perhaps. He has taken to a more laid back playstyle, but in uhh Storm 2 he played laid back but made good sense so it's another one of those let's see what he does with his posts thing.
rayn - I'm wary because he can play good scum. Watchful.
Damdred - I'm excited for partly because I think he is a promising player as I've played several games with him / hosted one with him in it, and also to get revenge for Showdown Mafia where he was scum and fooled me. I'M WATCHING YOU DAMDRED MUAHAHA
LoneMeow - Has made a couple of easy posts that go along with thread vibes. Suspicious but nothing blaring.
HaruRH - Pretty null at this point.
And finally, you dear Oatsmaster.
I remember the games we played together. You keep scumreading me, and I think it's because of my playstyle where I type everything up neat and make big paragraphs and you find them suspicious. Because there was one game you super town read me and that was when I played a more 1-liner real time style.
Conversely I also do not mesh with your playstyle, namely that one post where I asked you stop what you were doing independent of your alignment. But that's preference. You feel town from your aggression and that's where I'm at with you.
Cool. Feel free to followup on any of these points of your choosing (but I'll probably be lunching soon so don't expect anything immediate).
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On September 05 2014 01:58 Damdred wrote:Fraid so, just got my new phone so I can post whenever I want now. Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 01:47 slOosh wrote:
Oh boy this is exciting, I was waiting for this. Hey Damdred. What are your three biggest thoughts right now? One thing right now is that robik says he got a scum read on rayn, but doesn't want to talk about it to avoid pressure? What is that? If you think someone is scum you should press it and try to destroy the scum, its robik why is he scared of pressure? And not sure why if rayn is scum it would make him nervous of ger From rereading filters so far and catching up I like gooble, asks some good questions and it seems to have some follow up. And Koshi is not his normal self it feels like. I know he says hes tring a new non mass posting thing, but pregame he said he would be posting lots and a lot of his posts lack a ton of content and some of his reads lack some explanations. Asks a lot of questions without drawing conclusions once asked it seems.
So you are saying robik and Koshi are suspicious for playing "out of character"?
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Also, I'll make the rare exception and say
Yippee new icon!
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On September 04 2014 16:04 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 15:55 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 15:53 geript wrote:
I don't really have any solid townreads yet. It's really sad. Plus there's too many people on my too lynch list. Gun to my head Koshi; he's not as happy and fun as I usually think of him. But there's an odd towny air to him. who, other than non-posters, is on your "too lynch list"? Oats is like really not town oTsy to me. Ps I am the oats whisperer (sssshhhh don't tell Austin) Gobbly I'm pretty solid on. He's really thread policy which he tends to be in his scum games. Plus he's not really paranoid and aggressive and analyzing things which is what I saw in his town games. But he's pretty new so I'm a little hesitant there. Yamato for funsies. But seriously if he doesn't try to add something useful. HaruRH I get a really weird vibe from. I haven't played with him much but I got the feels from him early on. Robik. He's done a lot of things I've seen from his mafia play. He hasn't hard called me town yet. He's been schmoozing and generally unproductive (in an unproductive way instead of in a town Robik way). Slowish I'm guessing is town. Sylencia might be too based on attitude. That's essentially where I'm at.
geript could you please elaborate here?
Also, Town Jesus best Jesus.
##Grail ritoky
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On September 05 2014 06:30 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 06:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2014 16:04 geript wrote:On September 04 2014 15:55 ritoky wrote:On September 04 2014 15:53 geript wrote:
I don't really have any solid townreads yet. It's really sad. Plus there's too many people on my too lynch list. Gun to my head Koshi; he's not as happy and fun as I usually think of him. But there's an odd towny air to him. who, other than non-posters, is on your "too lynch list"? Oats is like really not town oTsy to me. Ps I am the oats whisperer (sssshhhh don't tell Austin) Gobbly I'm pretty solid on. He's really thread policy which he tends to be in his scum games. Plus he's not really paranoid and aggressive and analyzing things which is what I saw in his town games. But he's pretty new so I'm a little hesitant there. Yamato for funsies. But seriously if he doesn't try to add something useful. HaruRH I get a really weird vibe from. I haven't played with him much but I got the feels from him early on. Robik. He's done a lot of things I've seen from his mafia play. He hasn't hard called me town yet. He's been schmoozing and generally unproductive (in an unproductive way instead of in a town Robik way). Slowish I'm guessing is town. Sylencia might be too based on attitude. That's essentially where I'm at. geript could you please elaborate here? Also, Town Jesus best Jesus. ##Grail ritoky Look at his past games. The two games where he's town he comes out really aggressive and calls people scum and stuff where when he's mafia he tends to play thread police and be less aggressive ala here's where I'm at and why. It's a pretty stark difference.
Then why it matter if he is new or not?
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Hey guys do you guys see what I'm seeing?
geript makes a read on gobbley where he points out how his meta is clear cut, but then for no reason other than what I see as a backdoor to change his read he says "But he's pretty new so I'm a little hesitant there." Because if he did the meta reads, gobbley being new or not doesn't matter. So it looks like geripts making stuff up. Am I making sense here?
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You guys want to see a cool trick?
##Vote: Damdred
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I've given a total list of my reads few pages back. geript ticks up because of that post I pointed out and how strange it is.
I know Damdred is a totally capable player able to invest himself into a game, and yet 24 hours in all Damdred has been able to do this game is a couple of "I feel iffy" posts, one only because I prompted it.
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On September 05 2014 10:47 yamato77 wrote:
So sloosh, I guess you're ignoring me?
You got me. Ignored the post partly because I didn't really have any meaningful reads on them yet, partly because I wanted to see you offer something of your own. But you've picked up your posting and I like the spotlight on the "big name" players.
I feel better about rayn after his most recent slew of posts, particularly the setup one, because it's the same plan I thought up of to myself, and I'm less inclined to think scum rayn would freely give up that info because it's dubious if town would have figured it out.
Nothing alarming about Koshi at this point either.
I think the best lynch at this point is Damdred, and I feel better about this than other lynches because it seems like people are ignoring him. Part of it is meta - Damdred plays an active town game. Look at Neat and Tidy Mafia. 4 pages and was shot N1. Now contextually he is playing 2 games at once, so perhaps a lower post count is expected. So let's look at the actual content of his posts.
On September 05 2014 11:03 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 09:12 slOosh wrote:
I've given a total list of my reads few pages back. geript ticks up because of that post I pointed out and how strange it is.
I know Damdred is a totally capable player able to invest himself into a game, and yet 24 hours in all Damdred has been able to do this game is a couple of "I feel iffy" posts, one only because I prompted it. Your vote is not a bad one I have been absent for a good portion of the thread. However Sloosh your vote worries me for a few reasons. I responded a couple of times to you, and you did not interact with them much instead you just kind of dropped the subject instead of trying to see if you could get any more information out of me from my three big things. Your filter currently is a lot like Koshi, it looks a bit better however you do not draw a lot of conlusions from what you post honestly. Even your big list post you look at people and go not scum not scume, plays good scum must be watchful. Its this many hours into the game and yet you haven't taken a hard stance on anyone but put your vote down on me? If you vote me for I feel iffy posts your big list post deserves your own vote
There are several things that are out of place with this post.
First is calling my vote "not bad". So he admits that his play may warrant a vote.
But then right after he says my vote is worrisome. Huh? Why say "your vote is understandable", and then immediately say "your vote is worrisome"? It is inconsistent. Then, watch this, be blames me for failing to interact with him. He blames me for not prying the information out of Damdred. It's my fault that Damdred holds valuable information, but did not pursue it. That is extremely convoluted thinking for town to make. You don't say "hey you didn't ask me for my reads, you are scum". Yet that is what Damdred does here.
Next he tells me how my play is poor, and essentially calls me a hypocrite. What he doesn't do, is call me scum. If I'm doing all these things that he accuses me of, where I "haven't taken a hard stance", then by all means he should be calling me scum! Instead he complains how my vote is on him, and complains how I should be voting myself.
This isn't town mentality. It's totally scum mentality. Because he knows I'm town, he is treating me such, even though his words betray that he wants to call me scum.
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Thank you for the vote of confidence. Let's pile on the votes though, I don't like where they are right now.
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On September 06 2014 03:37 LoneMeow wrote:IAmRobik much town. Very grail. ##HolyGrail: IAmRobikCan you explain why? I just don't see it. Still my top scum read. Things like this don't help: Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 08:03 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys do you guys see what I'm seeing?
geript makes a read on gobbley where he points out how his meta is clear cut, but then for no reason other than what I see as a backdoor to change his read he says "But he's pretty new so I'm a little hesitant there." Because if he did the meta reads, gobbley being new or not doesn't matter. So it looks like geripts making stuff up. Am I making sense here? Like, is he trying to call geript scum here or what?
I saw something suspicious about geript, but was concerned that I might be reading too much into a point. So I asked other people for their opinion. Thoughts on my Damdred read?
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Everyone, without checking Damdred's filter, can you picture any of his reads in your mind? Do you remember anything he said that stuck out to you, as either a good point or a very scummy point? Probably not, because he has been flying under the radar, and popped up only when I made a case on him. Not only that, he still lacks direction. Is he trying to convince me I'm scum? Is he trying to convince me that he is town? Or is he just saying things for the sake of saying things?
I rest my case.
P.s. if you think I'm scum, then comment on my Damdred read. Either it's me bussing a scum buddy or me making stuff up about a townie, in either case you want to comment on it.
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On September 06 2014 04:11 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:44 slOosh wrote:On September 06 2014 03:37 LoneMeow wrote:IAmRobik much town. Very grail. ##HolyGrail: IAmRobikOn September 06 2014 02:50 IAmRobik wrote:
Guys, sloosh is town Can you explain why? I just don't see it. Still my top scum read. Things like this don't help: On September 05 2014 08:03 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys do you guys see what I'm seeing?
geript makes a read on gobbley where he points out how his meta is clear cut, but then for no reason other than what I see as a backdoor to change his read he says "But he's pretty new so I'm a little hesitant there." Because if he did the meta reads, gobbley being new or not doesn't matter. So it looks like geripts making stuff up. Am I making sense here? Like, is he trying to call geript scum here or what? I saw something suspicious about geript, but was concerned that I might be reading too much into a point. So I asked other people for their opinion. Thoughts on my Damdred read? The biggest problem I have with that read is that you went through one post from him but didn't say anything about the rest. How does his earlier posting look to you? I see some pretty towny things in there, I'm having trouble convincing myself a scum-Damdred would try to put suspicion on IAmRobik of all people in what little he has posted - would think it far more likely he'd go for an easier target.
Yes, because that was the one post I had a problem with, which he answered well. It's not like scum ooze scumslips and mistakes in all their posts, so it's not necessary to review the entirety of posts.
Could you quote specifically the posts you see as "pretty towny"? Additionally, I don't see how Damdred is trying that hard at all to put suspicion on IAmRobik. If anything the way that he is doing it (cautiously / tentatively) is indicative of scum mentality (you want to call them suspicious but not take blame for it).
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On September 06 2014 04:02 IAmRobik wrote:
Like, if Damdred is scum, Sloosh is town. And Damdred is sooooo scummy it hurts.
Look, we force discussion on Damdred because we got something substantive - my analysis of one of his bigger posts. We get everyone to talk about it - a subject where discussion has not yet been made. We get everyone to take a stance on it. Even if I am scum, if we get everyone to talk about it, that means my scum buddies are forced to take a stance. Additionally, the spotlight will be focused on me and Damdred, forcing us to produce more content, and ramping up pressure, so that if either of us were scum we would have more chance of cracking.
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EPT
