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On June 24 2014 07:22 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:07 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 24 2014 06:19 slOosh wrote:On June 24 2014 05:55 YouKnowZhou wrote:IMO, in a way Lazermo's saving grace is his utterly nonsensical vote on me: On June 21 2014 08:59 Lazermonkey wrote:
...
I Mderg is probably a crappy lynch. But there are still too few voters on YKZ... w/e.
##Unvote
##Vote: YKZ There was NO CHANCE this vote would lynch me, based on when he made it. There's also no chance that this vote would possibly look good if he was scum. I could imagine town being like "w/e fuck it I'm voting who I want even if it makes no difference" but I can't imagine scum making such a boneheaded move. There's no chance to save mderg there, and if he's scum he knows mderg will flip scum. Why make a move like that? Sure, it's not like some amazing pro-town vote, especially since it's on me and not mderg, but look at the thought process here. Imagine your'e Lazermo. You post a lot, you read the thread, but you're not particulariy "with it". You think YKZ is scum overt mderg, who is CLEARLY town. You try some shenannies onto like VE but that doesn't work out, and in the end you realize your vote will make no difference. Your townread, mderg, is getting lynched, and the counterwagon is your scumread, YKZ. It's too late. You can't do a thing. All you have left is a final act of defiance, futile defiance, but defiance nonetheless. You cast your worthless vote. That makes sense to me. I see that. Now, imagine you're scum Lazermo. Your scumbuddy mderg is getting lynched, and the counterwagon is a townie. Your vote is parked on VE, a nonconsequential wagon. You literally can't save mderg, and voting ykz will only make you look bad. Do you vote ykz? of course not! You're not a moron. So, this vote makes Lazermo town. Or you're scum Lazermonkey, your vote will still look terrible on VE, and you vote YKZ to do the "oh scum wouldn't do that" maneuver. Or you're scum Lazermonkey, the votes are flying around and it isn't too clear what the votecounts are, so you do it because you think you can save mderg. I mean, there's a lot more scenarios than the ones you display here. There is no "oh scum wouldn't do that" manoeuvre though, that's just wifom. You're just saying "this thing that only makes sense for a townie to do, makes sense for scum to do because it makes sense for a townie to do", but I'm talking about mindset here. Look, it's plausible that LM decided to do something insane that provides no tangible benefit, lots of potential downside, and plenty of potential getting-lynched-tomorrow-side, as scum, on the off chance we'd have this convo. Typically though, that's not how scum rolls. And regarding vote count confusion, here's where the last vote count was: (link). Mderg had 5 votes, and I had 3. Mderg votes me, bringing me up to 4. Then LM votes me, bringing me up to 5, at the last second, and sincee mderg hit 5 first, mderg is lynched. Now, it's possible LM was a confused scum, but the only other vote that happened in the final 10 minutes of the game was Mderg's. If Mderg and LM were scum together, Mderg and LM would be in the QT and Mderg would say something like "ok, I just voted for YKZ. If we can get one more townie to vote YKZ, you can hammer and we can kill him." LM as scum would be keenly aware of the votecount. It's still possible that he got confused anyways, or he thought another townie had voted when in fact they hadn't, but the final 10 mintues were not actually confusing at all. 10 minutes before the lynch, it's 5-3. Mderg votes me, making it 5-4, 9 minutes before the lynch, and nobody votes until the very deadline, where LM brings it to 5-5 and mderg is flipped. I think both scenarios are possible, but not likely. On a clean reread sure things are clear, but at the time it may not have been, as evidenced by this post here. You wouldn't post this unless you were actually considering that you could die.
Yeah, I considered it possible I would die. It's true, I suddenly hit 5 votes, and expected a potential 6th vote somehow. I only had moments and had to compress all the info I could into a post that I could squeeze out before the hosts flipped the lynch, potentially me. I chose my words wisely. It wasn't "lazermo is scum for the vote" or anything like that, it was a request to read his filter. And it's also a request that ended in "if I die now" because if I lived, you wouldn't need to. It's possible Lazermo is scum; my town read on him is not as rock solid as my scumread on VE. I certainly wanted to cover all my bases in the event I was lynched.
But remember, at the end of the day, I didn't know if a 6th vote was gonna suddenly show up from a scum player. If you assume LM is scum, then he WOULD know. He wouldn't be afraid. Remember, the ONLY vote since the 10-minute-out votecount was from mderg. If we assume LM is scum, he knows exactly what's going on. I didn't know if someone was gonna show up and hammer me, so I had to hedge. LM as scum would know there was no hammer coming from a teammate, and would not be confused about votes with mderg in the QT with him, mderg who is the only other person who has voted isnce the last votecount.
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BH, given all the information so far, could you lay your scumread on VE out for me one more time for old time's sake?
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Also, please share your opinion on Koshi.
Sorry Kurumi ;_;
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On June 24 2014 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, given all the information so far, could you lay your scumread on VE out for me one more time for old time's sake?
Absolutely. Do you want it in one paragraph or one page?
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Btw I'm could still be persuade to maybe lynch Koshi.
VE still a good lynch though but since he decided to actually talk and give a bunch of reads when he pretty GGed if he was scum makes me a little bit worrysome.
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On June 24 2014 07:36 Lazermonkey wrote:
Btw I'm could still be persuade to maybe lynch Koshi.
VE still a good lynch though but since he decided to actually talk and give a bunch of reads when he pretty GGed if he was scum makes me a little bit worrysome.
Note that he just dropped some reads, he's not here developing them. The dude has an hour and a half, with which he could be bouncing ideas off of people and developing his reads. Instead he drops a post that looks a lot like a "i'm townie and gonna die" post, but what is he doing otherwise? Everything VE does to help town is only like directly in response to people lynching him.
On June 24 2014 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also, please share your opinion on Koshi.
Sorry Kurumi ;_;
d'oh totally forgot. I'll do this as well.
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On June 24 2014 07:38 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:36 Lazermonkey wrote:
Btw I'm could still be persuade to maybe lynch Koshi.
VE still a good lynch though but since he decided to actually talk and give a bunch of reads when he pretty GGed if he was scum makes me a little bit worrysome. Note that he just dropped some reads, he's not here developing them. The dude has an hour and a half, with which he could be bouncing ideas off of people and developing his reads. Instead he drops a post that looks a lot like a "i'm townie and gonna die" post, but what is he doing otherwise? Everything VE does to help town is only like directly in response to people lynching him. SNIP
Actually, thats true. He didn't really add anything new I think. Scratch that thought. Killing VE is still cool and all that stuff.
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Everything BH says it's lies.
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On June 24 2014 07:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, given all the information so far, could you lay your scumread on VE out for me one more time for old time's sake? Absolutely. Do you want it in one paragraph or one page?
A short paragraph per point that you think proves that he's scum would be nice. Not the fluff, just the strong arguments.
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Yhea, just checked. Most of what VE says is simply a comprehension of his filter. So no real, fresh analysis comming off here. Null.
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Artanis. Consider going after sloosh like you are going after me and see how it feels. I am not scum and tunneling me is bad. You agree that my scumplay is fucking awful? Keep me around for another day, I will stop playing as scum. I have been awake till 2 am everytime for these lynches (and world cup). As scum I would just fuck off. Read SMB mafia and compare it to this game please. I beg you. I cannot be mislynched.
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On June 24 2014 07:46 Koshi wrote:
I cannot be mislynched.
You're right in that 
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On June 24 2014 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:You're right in that
remove your tunnel please. Doesn't it just make more sense if I am town?
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Koshi is stepping up his posting and VE is posting exactly what you would expect from a scum. Yhea, I'm feeling good about this lynch now.
VE, if you actually aren't scum please go get some decent reads and post a decent post. You are still able to win this game if you can lead town on the right track.
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On June 24 2014 07:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 24 2014 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, given all the information so far, could you lay your scumread on VE out for me one more time for old time's sake? Absolutely. Do you want it in one paragraph or one page? A short paragraph per point that you think proves that he's scum would be nice. Not the fluff, just the strong arguments.
Awww yisss only the strong stuff
OK so here's where I'm at on VE. I'll say the main points then expound on each.
VE's anger and unanger align very well with not engaging the town, and strike me as fake. Remember, during the time when I was trying to get in a last set of reads (sorta) before getting lynched, when I was chipping in an we were having real discussion? Suddenly, VE is "angry" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=33#651 and afks until right before the deadline.
VE was AFK during the crucial period of the D2 lynch, apparently due to anger. VE now claims he was just "poking in" to confirm that he was on the right wagon, but he had been in the thread half an hour earlier when I made the post, and a little over an hour before that to talk about other things. VE was in the thread.
VE voted mderg D1, but didn't vote Mderg D2. His reasons for not voting Mderg are nebulous.
He talks about sloosh looking good, and leaves out the fact that I have had to prod him multiple times over everything, doesn't address the fact that his reasoning was that he liked Sloosh and Release on my wagon, and disliked snickers and me on mderg: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=37#721 Remember, later on, when VE is in the thread, Release, one of the two guys he likes, is on mderg, and Snickers, one of the guys he doesn't like, is on me. So, he changes his explantion to "sloosh was my rock", which is NOT the explanation he was using during the lynch (again, here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=37#721). It is, however, more convenient, just like VE's fake anger (until he got called out for it and realized I was being super reasonable), or VE's afking right after I start engaging my thread, up until riight before the deadline.
VE is low energy and not engaging the thread except as a response to people trying to lynch him.
This is more general but it ties in with "VE soft pushing mderg". VE doesn't seem to have the courage of his convictions. I don't see him making a hard push on mderg (yes, he wrote a case, but with what followup? And then D2 he's not even on the guy...) Even when he's getting lynched, instead of engaging with the thread, VE just drops a few reads that are already in his filter and says "everything BH says is lies". I've already called this out of course.
During D3, VE has waffled a lot on his reads on me and sloosh, and mostly just trying to see who is easiest to lynch.
VE was unusually directionless today. I got a pass, Sloosh was his rock, no, wait, sloosh is scummy, never mind, BH gets no pass, actually let's lynch LM. Why? Because of a reason that applies to VE also, but also LM voted for VE so VE doesn't like that. There's no attempt to provide clarity or even suss out the truth, just figure out who beisdes him he can get lynched today.
VE tries to shut down town discussion.
I know I can be a jerk, but VE has repeatedly (jokingly, in a fit of anger, w/e-- I think it's calculated) tried to shut down town discussions. Whether it's me on my deathbed trying to leave reads, or (snicks I think) trying to write big posts at night. Oh yes, going back on it, VE has all kinds of explanations. He's joking, it was sarcastic, he was just "poking in the thread". But whatever explanation he has, he's trying to stop players who are scummy looking from explaining themselves, writing cases, or giving reads. His provocation of me was particularly hilarious. If I weren't on top of my game this game, I probably would have taken the bait.
yeah that's about it I think, maybe I left something out but I think I got it.
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On June 24 2014 07:56 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 24 2014 07:46 Koshi wrote:
I cannot be mislynched. You're right in that remove your tunnel please. Doesn't it just make more sense if I am town?
Your appeal to emotion bores me. Also, I'm not that certain you're scum, just that you're my biggest scumread in absence of others. It was just too funny to not take out of context.
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On June 24 2014 07:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:56 Koshi wrote:On June 24 2014 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 24 2014 07:46 Koshi wrote:
I cannot be mislynched. You're right in that remove your tunnel please. Doesn't it just make more sense if I am town? Your appeal to emotion bores me. Also, I'm not that certain you're scum, just that you're my biggest scumread in absence of others. It was just too funny to not take out of context.
Well man... I need to sleep. Allow me to go to bed please.
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I don't seer how any of what BH posted there makes me scum or is convincing in any way. What is so hard about it?
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On June 24 2014 08:04 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 24 2014 07:56 Koshi wrote:On June 24 2014 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 24 2014 07:46 Koshi wrote:
I cannot be mislynched. You're right in that remove your tunnel please. Doesn't it just make more sense if I am town? Your appeal to emotion bores me. Also, I'm not that certain you're scum, just that you're my biggest scumread in absence of others. It was just too funny to not take out of context. Well man... I need to sleep. Allow me to go to bed please.
I'm going to play to the best of my win condition. If that means trying to get you lynched, then I will. Looking at the gamestate it's unlikely that's going to happen though.
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EPT
