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On June 13 2014 04:32 Bill Murray wrote:
sorry, chromatically. your question came right before holy returned with a braveheart quote
how can it not be? there isn't a lot of information to go on with him from what i've read... did he post a lot in between 60-80?
he posted almost entirely between 60-80
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This is probably not a critical time for this, but HF can you spell out the meta kush read for me? Nothing flies out at me compared to a town game (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447645-normal-ass-normal-game?user=kushm4sta&page=2).
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On June 13 2014 04:42 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 04:40 Chromatically wrote:
This is probably not a critical time for this, but HF can you spell out the meta kush read for me? Nothing flies out at me compared to a town game (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447645-normal-ass-normal-game?user=kushm4sta&page=2). if you think this town game is anything like the mafia game i linked you need to brush up on your reading comprehension
I just skimmed it and didn't see anything, I can look more later but I kind of doubt that a meta read of kush will say anything conclusive with the way he's playing.
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If you're mafia, what kind of strategy is that? It doesn't say anything.
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On June 13 2014 19:22 marvellosity wrote:
So I made my case at 13:22 my time yesterday. Haru had been posting kinda regularly up until that point (7 times in the hour before my case), and then completely stopped posting when I made my case.
He then made 1 lazy +1 vote to Chrome's ritoky case 6 hours later, no reference to anything else.
me-no-likey.
I completely agree with this. I think that the people who look worst from the Cats flip are those who ignored the case on him entirely.
Scum wouldn't want to sheep a scum lynch that is already set because they think that it would look bad (ie look like a bus). Scum also wouldn't want to push some other target because the chances of them actually diverting the lynch at that point were near 0, and it would just draw attention to them after the flip.
Basically, they have no options for giving a read on Cats. If they say Cats is scum, then they have no excuse not to sheep onto Cats. If they say Cats is town, then they draw attention to themselves for defending the scum lynch (and they had really no good reasons to call him town). So they would totally ignore the case.
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agh TL just went down and I lost my post on Slam
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I don't know if I would say he's my "new target", I think the flip makes him look bad and there's nothing particularly townie in his filter.
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Anyway, in short what I was going to say about Slam is that he also ignored the case on Cats even though he was the only one who knew Cats' meta. He pops in to let me know that Cats is from OMGUS, but doesn't give any analysis on what that says for Cats (why not?). He then later says:
On June 13 2014 05:37 Alakaslam wrote:
Skill
Yeh so I Dinnae switch because I wasn't sure. See he's good enough at town that I don't like him as a d1 lynch.
Feel free to vig me or something if you want.
Otherwise any way I can conftown myself?
which means that he DID actually have an opinion on the Cats lynch: too good to be lynched D1.
As scum, he wouldn't want to post that before the flip because he thinks he would look bad if he soft defends the scum lynch before he flips. As town, there's no reason not to give his opinion on the lynch.
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On June 13 2014 23:30 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 23:24 Chromatically wrote:
I don't know if I would say he's my "new target", I think the flip makes him look bad and there's nothing particularly townie in his filter. You completely agree with marv on his post about haru, you say there's nothing towny in his filter and his vote makes him look bad. Is there another word that's supposed to be coming out of your mouth that you just aren't saying?
Uh what? I assume you want me to say that he's scum, I thought it was implied. I just didn't like the wording of "new target" like he's the one person I want to lynch.
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wow what a lame 1000 post
this picture isn't even good either
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On June 13 2014 23:32 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 23:32 Chromatically wrote:On June 13 2014 23:30 Holyflare wrote:On June 13 2014 23:24 Chromatically wrote:
I don't know if I would say he's my "new target", I think the flip makes him look bad and there's nothing particularly townie in his filter. You completely agree with marv on his post about haru, you say there's nothing towny in his filter and his vote makes him look bad. Is there another word that's supposed to be coming out of your mouth that you just aren't saying? Uh what? I assume you want me to say that he's scum, I thought it was implied. I just didn't like the wording of "new target" like he's the one person I want to lynch. I think your votes looked like one of the worst imo
Okay.
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On June 13 2014 23:38 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 23:34 Chromatically wrote:On June 13 2014 23:32 Holyflare wrote:On June 13 2014 23:32 Chromatically wrote:On June 13 2014 23:30 Holyflare wrote:On June 13 2014 23:24 Chromatically wrote:
I don't know if I would say he's my "new target", I think the flip makes him look bad and there's nothing particularly townie in his filter. You completely agree with marv on his post about haru, you say there's nothing towny in his filter and his vote makes him look bad. Is there another word that's supposed to be coming out of your mouth that you just aren't saying? Uh what? I assume you want me to say that he's scum, I thought it was implied. I just didn't like the wording of "new target" like he's the one person I want to lynch. I think your votes looked like one of the worst imo Okay. you spent the whole time talking about your ritoky case (which applied to many other people too but you still only chose ritoky) and then just briefly mentioned cats but you didn't even call him scummy Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 03:12 Chromatically wrote:
The case on Cats is good but it basically relies on him being experienced/good. He could be actually new or just really bad. ritoky has done things that are scum-motivated, not just bad. I'll consolidate my case because I think I wasn't very clear yesterday. tbh you clearly didn't even read anything i posted about kush or read his filters properly because you said it looked like the town game when it was worlds apart from it and then when cats was already being voted off and was definitely going to die you joined the wagon even though it was pretty much solid anyway, what was your motivation for that???
Are you serious?
The case on ritoky does not apply to anyone else. You said that before, I responded, and you ignored it (actually you said that you would "contemplate ritoky hardcore tonight" indicating that you thought it had merit?).
Literally the sentence before the one you highlighted says that the case on Cats is good ie he's scum. Later Slam pointed out that he wasn't actually new, so my objections were invalid. I make it pretty clear that I am fine with a Cats lynch.
I really didn't care about kush because if we weren't lynching Cats, we were lynching ritoky. As I said at the time, Cats lynch is way better than a kush lynch.
What's the scum motivation for switching my vote, even though it doesn't matter? Switching the vote at that point is essentially a symbolic gesture (one that scum would feel awkward about doing). I switched because ritoky clearly wasn't getting lynched, and I also liked a Cats lynch.
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On June 13 2014 23:40 TicaTica wrote:
Can we live in reality where Slam's alignment is a complete coin flip? He's been significantly less helpful this game than in a few previous. That's the major thing to note that could be said is even minorly alignment indicative. But any fuckhead who thinks they can read Slam in this game is just off their rocker. He's a fine vigi shot. He's maybe an ok lynch, but let's not bother spending time to actually read and analyze him and instead read and analyze people who are actually readable and discernable. At worst we can alway default to a Slam lynch as is the general omgus policy: "When in doubt, lynch Slam."
I agree that most of his play is unreadable. I do think that his actions around the lynch are scum-motivated, however, so I would more say he's like a weighted coinflip. Not the best lynch until later.
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I don't get why people don't agree with me on ritoky.
On June 12 2014 12:33 ketomai wrote:
ritoky: Currently seems like mafia to me. He's on consistently throughout the day (his posts are very spread out), yet he doesn't really seem to contribute or address the game at all. He's just tunnel visioning Chromatically with nearly all his posts (who I personally have tagged as slightly town, so I naturally disagree with most of what he's saying).
Here's the post I was looking for about his active lurking, ketomai noticed it too.
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 why?
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On June 14 2014 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
because it's meaningless as a phrase and concept. making a couple of posts here and there throughout the day is making a couple of posts here and there throughout the day.
actively lurking is just some buzzword jargon that encompasses a whole range of stuff without really having any implications.
I mean if you think he's disconnected from the game or around and yet not engaging, stick to calling it that, that actually has meaning
Okay, my point is that he's here throughout the day and yet choosing not to comment on anything other than direct questions/arguments to him, nearly all of which concern only his read on me. If he was town he would be interested in events in the thread and would give other reads, if he was scum he would want to post in the thread as little as possible and maintain as few strong reads as possible.
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On June 14 2014 00:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2014 00:15 Chromatically wrote:On June 14 2014 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
because it's meaningless as a phrase and concept. making a couple of posts here and there throughout the day is making a couple of posts here and there throughout the day.
actively lurking is just some buzzword jargon that encompasses a whole range of stuff without really having any implications.
I mean if you think he's disconnected from the game or around and yet not engaging, stick to calling it that, that actually has meaning Okay, my point is that he's here throughout the day and yet choosing not to comment on anything other than direct questions/arguments to him, nearly all of which concern only his read on me. If he was town he would be interested in events in the thread and would give other reads, if he was scum he would want to post in the thread as little as possible and maintain as few strong reads as possible. it's definitely possible he is mafia i already said on d1 why i was hesitant about lynching him then, and Foolish also said some stuff.
On June 12 2014 21:41 marvellosity wrote:
for reference i have temporarily discounted ritoky because although i find his "reeks of TMI" stuff really odd, in some way he didn't understand why it was odd and seemed quite angry I didn't understand, and also his posts in plenty of parts seem pretty direct. so maybe he is mafia but maybe also those could be reasons he isn't.
On June 13 2014 08:24 mattisfoolish wrote:
I think ritoky is town because he seems confident in his posting and is putting his thoughts out. I saw someone say that he's mafia (this was a while ago) so I decided to look into it. Honestly I think this guy got some heat in a recent game as well when he was town and I'm noticing a similar sort of pattern. I also don't get the feeling that he's hiding anything in his posting.
It seems like confidence/directness/"passion" are the main things, but I don't really see those as necessarily town traits. From my own experience, it's really easy for scum to be those things about a read as long as they've built up the logic in their head that they're following (in GoT I pushed Risen for a while confidently/passionately because I was confident that the reasons I was calling him scum for made him look bad). I'm not sure how Foolishness can get a meta read either because he's only played town games so far.
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Sadly I don't have very much time, and I'm not even going to be here at deadline, so here's quickly where I'm at.
Haru and ritoky are my top two scum for reasons already stated. Since I haven't said as much about Haru, his posting is basically useless and he doesn't at all look like he's trying to solve the game. His post on SnB (which was posted when SnB was the main wagon) is the epitome of this, his reasoning is really poor and he's essentially trying to look like he's not sheeping.
On June 12 2014 18:05 HaruRH wrote:After diving SnB, I realised the pool is so shallow theres no need to bring a snorkel. So here's why SnB makes me wanna lynch the scum out of him: Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 23:41 strongandbig wrote:
Finished reading through page 48 on phone
Have to go to work
Some notes to calm thy tits, thread:
Townish:
- chromatically
Scummish:
- palmar not trying on day 1
- koshi for pretty random townreads and listpost
- rainbows bad reasoning for scum read on koshi. Tries to make something shitty up, indicates he's not comfortable just agreeing with good reasoning already posted - indicates selfconscious mafia.
Good args:
- chromatically on why sinani is scum
- mz on why round is scum
- koshi on why tica is scum
- (sort of good) round on why ketomi is scum Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 04:55 strongandbig wrote:
Blergh caught up with the thread and lunch is over
[complain about spam, maybe if I do it more it's likely to work]
Anyway, I would kill koshi right now. Don't have anything new to add, I like chromatic ally's case
Also would still kill rainbows soo... He thinks koshi makes good arguments, then want to lynch koshi. Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 04:17 strongandbig wrote:On June 11 2014 13:31 batsnacks wrote:On June 11 2014 13:26 Chairman Ray wrote:On June 11 2014 13:23 batsnacks wrote:
Chairman, without reading the above post, I really wish both your posts about me weren't perfectly sequential dissections of literally everything I said. Sorry, I'll try to keep it brief from now on. You can just read the "Overall" statement at the end Look I like everything you said I think it's great. I read the whole thing. You got an A+ on your homework for sure. I really, really, really hate that you commented on everything I said in the order I said it in both posts though. If you are mafia which I think you probably are, that's the only thing you should have changed to make it better. This is stupid. There's nothing wrong with an in-depth post by post analysis and the fact that newer players don't know this is just a sign of how spammy and annoying the meta has gotten . Then he shitposts.
Other scum could be ObiWan and gumshoe. I didn't have a problem with ObiWan earlier, mainly because he was posting a lot and it sounded fairly townie, but looking in his filter, most of his posts don't actually say anything. He voted on Cats, but didn't comment on the case at all and left room for him to back out if it looked like momentum was tipping. gumshoe's posts also don't look like they're trying to find scum/saying much.
Then there's {Slam, kush, sandroba, VA}, who I think are mostly unreadable for one reason or another. Slam I think is more likely to be mafia because of what I said earlier. VA is more likely to be town because he tipped the lynch from 6-6 SnB vs Cats to 6-7, where he could have jumped on Cats instead (of course, it's possible he could have just seen the momentum (and/or SnB is mafia)).
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Forgot about round, he was good at the start and then stopped posting
really gtg
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I like Rainbows' case on Haru (or parts of it, at least). The things I think are the best are (some of these may or may not have actually been in Rainbows case):
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2014 18:42 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 18:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 11 2014 12:51 Rainbows wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2014 09:20 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 08:53 Tehpoofter wrote:On June 11 2014 08:51 Koshi wrote:
I voted Tica because I dislike him more. More words does not equal bigger scumread.
I still think my post was pretty good. Reason:
I think my towns are town.
My questionables good pressures points.
I will continue my quest tomorrow.
His recent posts backing up your wolf lean on him? How do you feel about Marv/Sandroba/JaT not liking your post at all? You think thats alignment indicative for any of them? Also You're doing a poor job of try harding if you make one post a day. Please don't go Cephiro mode on me. If Koshi is heading out for the night, I'm just gonna chime in now. Koshi's big analysis post reads pretty scummy to me. His mafia reads seem pretty sincere and thought out, but his town reads are very short. Whether or not he believes them himself is not evident, but it doesn't convey much to the reader. My initial thinking is that his townreads serve to 'bulk' up his post. I've seen a lot of mafia in previous games iterate through people and give a quick impression of them without a well thought out read on them. This gives the impression that they are active and their posts are longer without actually having to do a lot of investigation. What strikes me odd was his next post: Koshi posted this in response to the people that were dismissive of his reads. This is a very important distinction because people react differently when they are opposed by analysis and when they are opposed by a one liner. In this case, most people just posted a quick one liner dismissing him. From Koshi's perspective, if he just gave out a few quick impressions without a lot of thought, he wouldn't have any sort of attachment or loyalty to his post. His response to the critics would be something like "Those were just my gut feelings at the moment, they may change by the end of the day". Instead, he dismissed the critics with a one liner post containing no new information by posting "No sorry my towns are town". It may be hard to read into on forum mafia, but to me he sounds a bit frustrated and doesn't feel his critics doesn't deserve any more than a one liner. If this is the case, then Koshi has some genuine belief of his townreads, and regardless of the quality of his reads or how he conveyed them, this seems more town to me.tl;dr I disagree with Koshi's townreads, even though I am among them; I disagree with Sandroba that Koshi is mafia. I don't get CR's goal with his postings. he comes to no conclusion, just that some post made koshi scummy but his next post made him more town. So is he mafia or town for CR at this point? I care not that CR is posting intelligently (this is a good thing!!!), but there's a bunch of text with seemingly no bite involved atm yes, i agree with this i think. I read through 30+ pages of 'stuff' and the huge post by koshi and the reads off koshi's posts were striking to me. CR seems like trying to earn some towncred by pointing out koshi first, so that in the future he can use this as a reference to how towny he is. Town totem: Chrom, batsnacks. Everyone else is hard to read. They make towny posts, then destroy their own image by making themselves look scummy.
Haru thinks that Koshi is scum (and votes in his next post) in the first sentence of this post, but then also thinks that CR is scummy for attacking Koshi (even though he was actually defending him). Let's think about the thought process here:
1. Thinks Koshi is scummy.
2. Doesn't read CR's post very carefully and thinks he is attacking Koshi.
3. Thinks CR is scum for attacking Koshi.
The third thought doesn't follow from the first two, especially not in the very same post in the very next sentence. Don't get me wrong, it's obviously possible for scum to call out their teammates. But would you ever look at a post of someone calling out your scumread and then immediately think they're scum just for that post?
He calls all his votes "placeholders", which doesn't make sense. A placeholder vote is something you do when you don't have time to read the thread as much as you want, and you're not confident in your vote. There's no excuse for clearly thinking about your vote, even moving it around, but still calling it a placeholder (his votes on Koshi and CR). Why wouldn't you put down a "real" vote? The only reason for calling it a placeholder is so you have an excuse to move it around with minimal reasoning, which scum want to do.
The SnB post is still bad. He jumps on the SnB wagon while it's the only one around, adding some justification that doesn't make sense so it doesn't seem like he's sheeping.
It's also really scummy that he throws suspicion on me and CR for no reason other than the fact that we have scumreads on him. There's no thought process, just a blanket statement that we are scum for scumreading him.
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EPT
