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On June 12 2014 09:22 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 08:58 Chromatically wrote:
ritoky is a great second lynch if Koshi isn't happening. I like marv's point too.
I think I would go for a megalurker/someone who's not playing the game lynch after that. OMGUS, the scum hunting mindset you been talking about? Look, if you don't think that calling someone mafia for simply defending sianni (tiatica) qualifies you as having a strong read on sianni, then it is a difference of definitions. I think the proof is easily read in your filter.
How is it a difference of definitions if I'm scum? Wouldn't it be me purposefully misrepresenting my play?
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I think ketomai totally depends on what he posts next. The thing that happened in thread could have easily been a townie startled by people jumping on him before he starts playing. I agree that it's weird that he feels like he has to vote between round and Exo, but it's not really scummy..? He could have easily left his vote on himself and that would draw less attention.
What he posts next is the important part.
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Yep there's a lot of people not really playing, that's why I wouldn't mind lynching into them.
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On June 12 2014 09:49 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 09:35 Chromatically wrote:On June 12 2014 09:22 ritoky wrote:On June 12 2014 08:58 Chromatically wrote:
ritoky is a great second lynch if Koshi isn't happening. I like marv's point too.
I think I would go for a megalurker/someone who's not playing the game lynch after that. OMGUS, the scum hunting mindset you been talking about? Look, if you don't think that calling someone mafia for simply defending sianni (tiatica) qualifies you as having a strong read on sianni, then it is a difference of definitions. I think the proof is easily read in your filter. How is it a difference of definitions if I'm scum? Wouldn't it be me purposefully misrepresenting my play? Because I feel that the case I have already made follows very easily if you view what you gave as a strong read. I think you did. I can say it again, but it isn't going to change. I think you gave a disproportionately strong read on sianni from a pretty inconclusive response (I thought it was slightly scummy at best). In order to make said conclusion from not very much I feel you have extra information. The only people with extra information right now are mafia. Since then you've done nothing to alleviate my worries about you, you've been hard defending and OMGUSing (which is completely contrary to the scum hunting mindset you were critical of sianni for). And how is this not the exact same thing that you were critical of sianni for? Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 09:41 Chromatically wrote:
I think ketomai totally depends on what he posts next. The thing that happened in thread could have easily been a townie startled by people jumping on him before he starts playing. I agree that it's weird that he feels like he has to vote between round and Exo, but it's not really scummy..? He could have easily left his vote on himself and that would draw less attention.
What he posts next is the important part. Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 06:50 sinani206 wrote:
Mostly one-liners and wishy washy, I don't really have time right now to quote because I have a meeting at 2:50 but if he keeps this kind of useless posting up I can see a chance of him being red. You just did the same exact non-committal thing. "Could be red, wait and see what happens"; that's not the scum hunting mindset you were preaching.
Once again, your extra information thing doesn't make sense. The only way I would have extra information about sinani that would give me a "too strong" read would be if we were scum together.
The difference between what I posted and what sinani posted is that ketomai has probably not started playing the game yet, making trying to read him rather pointless. sinani's read on JAT is completely noncommittal and overqualified, which you and many others have agreed on. Comparing what we posted doesn't say anything about my alignment anyway (at best it would make me a hypocrite), so there was really no reason at all for you to include this.
You can call it OMGUS if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't make the points against you less strong.
Anyway, I think this conversation is no longer useful at all and that I've made my case sufficiently clear.
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Can't we just lynch ritoky?
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The case on Cats is good but it basically relies on him being experienced/good. He could be actually new or just really bad. ritoky has done things that are scum-motivated, not just bad. I'll consolidate my case because I think I wasn't very clear yesterday.
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ritoky's filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451310-tl-order-lxvi-mafia?user=ritoky
ritoky has talked about literally nothing else other than me (and occasionally MZ), which is absolutely ridiculous from a town perspective because I was never, in any world, getting lynched today. Every single one of his posts has to do with me. He doesn't give reads on lynch targets or people being discussed in the thread, he posts solely about me.
Scum motivation: look like you're active and pushing a case, don't have to think about who you're voting until you "consolidate" at deadline, only have to maintain one read
Town motivation: ???
You'll also notice that he never even pushes my case. He never tries to get other people to vote for me. As town, you would always try to get your one and only scumread lynched. As scum, you don't care, as long as you look active.
Relatedly, he is only here when someone calls him out. Seriously. Look at his entire filter. It's either arguing with me, or arguing with marv. He always responds quickly when someone does call him out, but he never posts anything of his own accord. This is a 100% scum tactic. He's active lurking in the thread but doing nothing. He doesn't actually want to push the thread forward, he just cares about defending himself.
His reasoning on me doesn't make sense (as I've said), because he doesn't actually believe it. What probably happened is that he saw Koshi's case on me and thought that I would be a good target to sheep onto, and then directly copied Koshi's reasoning from his case (explaining why his reasons are the same as Koshi's AND why he can't explain the TMI thing).
On June 12 2014 10:28 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 10:01 Chromatically wrote:On June 12 2014 09:49 ritoky wrote:On June 12 2014 09:35 Chromatically wrote:On June 12 2014 09:22 ritoky wrote:On June 12 2014 08:58 Chromatically wrote:
ritoky is a great second lynch if Koshi isn't happening. I like marv's point too.
I think I would go for a megalurker/someone who's not playing the game lynch after that. OMGUS, the scum hunting mindset you been talking about? Look, if you don't think that calling someone mafia for simply defending sianni (tiatica) qualifies you as having a strong read on sianni, then it is a difference of definitions. I think the proof is easily read in your filter. How is it a difference of definitions if I'm scum? Wouldn't it be me purposefully misrepresenting my play? Because I feel that the case I have already made follows very easily if you view what you gave as a strong read. I think you did. I can say it again, but it isn't going to change. I think you gave a disproportionately strong read on sianni from a pretty inconclusive response (I thought it was slightly scummy at best). In order to make said conclusion from not very much I feel you have extra information. The only people with extra information right now are mafia. Since then you've done nothing to alleviate my worries about you, you've been hard defending and OMGUSing (which is completely contrary to the scum hunting mindset you were critical of sianni for). And how is this not the exact same thing that you were critical of sianni for? On June 12 2014 09:41 Chromatically wrote:
I think ketomai totally depends on what he posts next. The thing that happened in thread could have easily been a townie startled by people jumping on him before he starts playing. I agree that it's weird that he feels like he has to vote between round and Exo, but it's not really scummy..? He could have easily left his vote on himself and that would draw less attention.
What he posts next is the important part. On June 11 2014 06:50 sinani206 wrote:
Mostly one-liners and wishy washy, I don't really have time right now to quote because I have a meeting at 2:50 but if he keeps this kind of useless posting up I can see a chance of him being red. You just did the same exact non-committal thing. "Could be red, wait and see what happens"; that's not the scum hunting mindset you were preaching. Once again, your extra information thing doesn't make sense. The only way I would have extra information about sinani that would give me a "too strong" read would be if we were scum together. The difference between what I posted and what sinani posted is that ketomai has probably not started playing the game yet, making trying to read him rather pointless. sinani's read on JAT is completely noncommittal and overqualified, which you and many others have agreed on. Comparing what we posted doesn't say anything about my alignment anyway (at best it would make me a hypocrite), so there was really no reason at all for you to include this. You can call it OMGUS if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't make the points against you less strong. Anyway, I think this conversation is no longer useful at all and that I've made my case sufficiently clear. Your read is exactly the same as the bolded portion. And hypocrisy and inconsistency can be scum mindset indicators, so I think they are relevant. And personally I don't think you have a case, hence why I think it is an OMGUS. You're defensive and OMGUSing which is the opposite of the mindset you were pushing others to have. All of that just adds depth.
When I point out here that his hypocrisy reasons don't make me scum, he says that they can be "scum mindset indicators" which is vague garbage. He can't explain why hypocrisy would make me scum because he can't, it doesn't. He's not actually thinking about if I'm scum, he's looking for things to justify his read.
- does not do anything other than argue with/about me
- active lurking until people call him out
- doesn't actually push me for lynch
- reasoning doesn't make sense
This is like 100% scum.
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This is the actual wagon of justice btw.
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On June 13 2014 03:33 Bill Murray wrote:
"ritoky has talked about literally nothing else other than me (and occasionally MZ), which is absolutely ridiculous from a town perspective"
not true; i've talked about him.
Furthermore, I find the entirety of your case to be fabricating, and stretching... because it is OMGUS, so you are tunneled in on him. It lead you to have a bad case.
I'm saying that he has commented on nothing else, which is true. It doesn't matter if you have commented on him.
What about it is fabricated?
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What are you even saying Slam?
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Like you can say I'm confirmation biasing if you really think that I'm too far into OMGUSing. But I think the points are really good regardless of who he's tunneling.
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On June 13 2014 03:40 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 03:12 Chromatically wrote:
The case on Cats is good but it basically relies on him being experienced/good. He could be actually new or just really bad. ritoky has done things that are scum-motivated, not just bad. I'll consolidate my case because I think I wasn't very clear yesterday. Slam told you already but in case you didn't get it - kotc is not new. He is from OMGUS. Any other reason why you would think he is town?
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Not really. I'm super confident on ritoky but Cats is a pretty great lynch then too.
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Unless he's like absolutely awful. But I expect that Slam would have said something by now if that's the case.
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On June 13 2014 03:35 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 03:33 Bill Murray wrote:
"ritoky has talked about literally nothing else other than me (and occasionally MZ), which is absolutely ridiculous from a town perspective"
not true; i've talked about him.
Furthermore, I find the entirety of your case to be fabricating, and stretching... because it is OMGUS, so you are tunneled in on him. It lead you to have a bad case. I'm saying that he has commented on nothing else, which is true. It doesn't matter if you have commented on him. What about it is fabricated?
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It's not even worth it for me to push for ritoky if people don't want to go for it but I just think the case is watertight.
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On June 13 2014 04:11 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 03:59 Chromatically wrote:On June 13 2014 03:35 Chromatically wrote:On June 13 2014 03:33 Bill Murray wrote:
"ritoky has talked about literally nothing else other than me (and occasionally MZ), which is absolutely ridiculous from a town perspective"
not true; i've talked about him.
Furthermore, I find the entirety of your case to be fabricating, and stretching... because it is OMGUS, so you are tunneled in on him. It lead you to have a bad case. I'm saying that he has commented on nothing else, which is true. It doesn't matter if you have commented on him. What about it is fabricated? what's this quote supposed to be?
BM ignored my question so I wanted him to answer it, and/or say why he's not voting ritoky because his reason there is irrelevant.
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On June 13 2014 04:15 Holyflare wrote:
chrom your ritoky case applies to half the people in the game, why is ritoky pushing on you and sometimes mz different from kotc pushing on batsnacks for the worst reasons known to man? why you push yours over sheep? why you want to be so speshul?
It doesn't though. The whole point is that ritoky isn't actually pushing on me. He's not trying to get me lynched at all. He just doesn't post about anything other than me, which is super scummy. AND he always responds to questions at him but never does anything.
I'm trying to show the active lurking thing with quotes but I can't figure out how the timestamps work. It's something I noticed when I was talking to him. I would say something and he would immediately respond, and then some time later I would say something and he would immediately respond, but post nothing in the meantime. Someone else noticed it too (I thought it was JAT but it's not in his filter), I can't find the quote.
I'm not going to defend Cats because he's pretty awful too. I just think my case is like a surefire scum lynch. No town does the things that ritoky does.
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case on Cats >>> case on Kush
Kush is like a 100% coinflip, he's just one of the people not playing.
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##Unvote
##Vote: TheKingOfTheCats
Half an hour left and ritoky's not happening.
I'll look at kush's meta and stuff but I really doubt he's going to be a better lynch today.
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EPT
