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- The actual reads he's now giving. His Valenius read is in his own words "in line with what everyone else has said," and his Pixalated read is based entirely off of things that Pixalated said AFTER his "bait" post. In other words, he lied about what his Pixalated read was in his initial post because it's built entirely on posts made after the initial post. He cannot have read Pixalated town in his "bait" post because Pixalated commented on sqrt: Pixalated hadn't commented on sqrt yet!
I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
This was again in line with what OnceKing said about sqrt and Robik's clearing of him based on sqrt's long string of multi-posts on HS.
It was also right before he went to sleep. Yeah, it's not a constructive post. That's not automatically scum, especially in isolation.
He had 3 and a half hours to respond after Valenius brought up his question, and 15 minutes for a something on the IAmRobik wtf post. And he made an irrelevant joke post long past the joking stage. This is why I find it suspicious, because there's AMPLE time to make something at least tangentially relevant instead of a useless throwaway line then another sleep post.
Everything else I've already explained previously. You can disagree with my reasoning.
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On March 26 2014 21:13 Pixalated wrote:
In that case why are you suspicious about Robik having the same reservations as you? You aren't answering the question.
I'm now probably spending too much time talking about something that happened in another game, but I had confused his opposition to Amiko's fluff in his introduction post to an opposition to a lurker lynch policy, which would have been inconsistent. It was a suspicion based off meta, and something which I had misremembered.
Robik's main argument is that he's just talking about lynching lurkers as opposed to actually doing it, and that he's speaking to the mechanics of it.
You don't have to set that shit up with a post about how you want to go on quiet people.
I disagree with that, as agreeing to a policy lynch as a group is still good in a newbie game, and given the purpose was to start a serious discussion.
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On March 26 2014 21:32 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2014 21:21 Lord Tolkien wrote:I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much. This was again in line with what OnceKing said about sqrt and Robik's clearing of him based on sqrt's long string of multi-posts on HS. That is not a read on sqrt.
I read that post as a read. He states that sqrt shouldn't have been cleared so quickly as town for making that long stream of posts early on, and that sqrt is difficult to read because he posted nothing but random crap. I call that, broadly, a read. And it fit with what OnceKing said about sqrt (in regards to Robik's clearing of him).
sqrt - jokes and one liners during RVS. Lots of 'em. Made no posts afterwards, yet. Mysteriously Robik's got a town read off of that.
Where he got that read from.
At this point we're debating semantics of what constitutes a read.
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On March 26 2014 21:39 Eden1892 wrote:
No, what we're debating is whether to kill you or Cavalinho first.
Ah, ignoring the rebuttal.
ok, whatever you say.
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On March 26 2014 22:04 Pixalated wrote:@LT I dont think you talked about this point that Eden brought up. Show nested quote +The timing. His post setting the "trap" came over 20 minutes after the post containing the "bait," and the "trap" is at the end. Looks like an afterthought. I'm not convinced it's the result of prior planning. If you can't give a sufficient explanation for this I think I would lynch you instead. If it was preplanned, why wasn't it directly after your first post? Why wait 20 minutes? Why did you have to go read RJ's thoughts on the Cav case before finishing your trap??
It took me awhile to realize to what you were referring to.
The reads themselves would've been sufficient. I wanted to see if anyone else would parrot it, not just Cav and sqrt.
The questions tacked on afterwards was done specifically in regards to Cav and sqrt as they solidified themselves in my mind as the scummiest players I'm reading, and mostly to encourage them to post something substantive so I can analyze (which is their main problems this turn). This was not an essential part of the scumbait.
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What the fk did I post this early morning. this is why sleep deprivation is bad for you, mmkay. Don't have much time so I'll be quick about it.
Since I think most of the bases have been covered already: yes, it was a scumbait. I get less coherent in later posts due to REASONS, but the primary scumbait was the Valenius and Pixelated reads and broadly targeted at everyone. The Pixelated read is somewhat plausible of a bait, but the Valenius one was super fking obvious. Like, how the fk am I going to clear Valenius as town when he had ONE post, which is, in standard situations normal, and being one of the first stabs at substantive discussions slightly town leaning (for me). It's so terribly obvious to anyone who reads his filter, that I'm wondering why I felt the need to try and use him as a scumbait too.
I was going to respond quicker to Roland's post on Cavalinho, but I was running myself in circles check something meta Cavalinho was referring to about why Robik was lynched in LII no time to quote the post, ("he was lynched because he was a strong player and he read me as town". He also read me as mafia that game and was wrong, and they also nightkilled him because they thought he was blue) but then I realized this was utterly irrelevant to anything pertinent, deleted it, and just finished my post. The questions were an effort to specifically encourage sqrt and Cavalinho to respond.
I just used Valenius and Pixelated because they gave me the most neutral reads.
On the five points Eden makes, to be clear if I didn't answer it this morning:
1) The bait was initially targeted at everyone, and is the original intent. The second post was delayed because of dead-end meta-analysis, but the refocusing onto Cavalinho and sqrt was done afterwards, correct. Won't argue this, and you can read it for what you want.
2) See above. Town can sheep, but sheeping still means they aren't thinking for themselves, and makes me devalue their analysis as a worst-case scenario.
3) We clearly have different definitions of reads, but he clearly talks about sqrt and Valenius in that post, and it's basically a repeat of what OK said a few posts prior to it regarding why Robik's plays. Same error about sqrt not posting after the RVS phase and everything. Argument about semantics, useless line of questioning.
4) When you made the post, it became pretty clear that it was . Had I not made the Valenius bait so fking obvious, I might've. Then again, I'm not entirely sure why I was so quick to jump the gun, so this is valid.
5) You just made a case about my second post being 20 minutes following up my first post. sqrt had 3 and 1/2 hours since VALENIUS posted his question to OK, and 15 minutes to Robik's WTF to OK's post, and had time to make a joke post referencing Robik joking about never being mafia on TL. Perhaps it's just me, but I really dislike that.
I think at this point I'm resigned to having a scummy Day 1 town meta because "mistakes were made", so have at thee and debate it at your leisure. I've got more productive avenues to explore.
On the Valenius post: sqrt, how do you get a "neutral" read off of it? It's filled decent, non-rehashed analysis (though I think he could explain his reasoning on Pixalated: Valenius what is your read of him, and why do you think that). You don't like it because he calls you scum, yeah, but tell me: why shouldn't we view you as scummy given your current contributions? Your reads post had two pieces of original analysis:
1) is idle speculation of my relationship with Valenius, and to that I say: don't ask, don't tell  . Ok, I kid, but it was based off something which can readily be falsified with a single glance at his filter at the time. Like, it's SUPER obvious, and really, why would I as scum try to link myself to my scum partner so early (and vice versa), and with something so easily disputed? Neither does this say that he's town if I'm scum (when I "downgraded" him and gave the actual read, Eden was on the Tolkien/Cavalinho 4eva pairing at the time, so I would have no incentive to change anything about Valenius), just that this is a useless line of inquiry.
2) idle speculation that Pixelated is blue (don't speculate about other people being blue. I talked about blues in my admittedly disastrous Day 1, but that's a nono and I was only making a soft vet claim, as opposed to calling someone out explicitly as blue (and even that's scummy). DON'T DO THAT AS TOWN.
Alot of this also applies to Eden's recent post, and while it confuses my read of him, he still seems town to me. If aggressive in his scumhunting. No need for a double lynch like LII gaiz.
You know what, fk it.
##Vote: sqrt
The read wasn't strong at all (and I was wavering between hiim and Cavalinho), but after those posts, this is my strongest read, and something which people really should be talking about more because fk.
Currently, it seems myself and Cavalinho are the likely lynch targets thus far, and I would submit sqrt as another. Let's keep the votes within this group unless something major comes up.
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and fk, this was suppose to be a short post, gotta run
COMPLETELY OFFTOPIC DISREGARD
@ Valenius: I've got RoS and shit. Since it looks like you're a TLLoL lurker, I'll add you to our clan. LordTolkien#1449
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On March 27 2014 06:51 OnceKing wrote:
LT: 1-4 we're good on but your 5 is fuckin with me.
I believe the point being that you pulled in the trap so soon after you set it, which is an unreasonably short amount of time. Who's gonna ever fall for it so quickly? That's got nothing to do with the other time differences like the 3 1/2 hours w/ Valenius, Robik's 15 minutes to me and yet you're comparing it for some unknown reason.
Typing on phone but. I'm not sure, I think it was just stupidity. i was low on sleep, not entirely sure either.
can't see the youtube video but I assume it's about Day 1 incompetence.
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Alright. Time for phone mafia.
Meant I was asking about your read on pixalated. You say you dont like the posts and thats it. It makes me uncomfortable in am otherwose good post.
Sqrt I meant your responsr to OK. You're saying you're still deciding because he just post his reads and NOTHING MUCH but you did as well. And less content and original contributions compared to it. And you di ssd like his scumread on you. Whatever, I dislike mine but so what. You and I give off scum vibes. Deal.
I also started on that post after robik posted in response to eden so I didnt see alot of posts after.
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I'll post mpre when I have a computer, but.
I kinda want to vote for myself just to spite you and see what happens when I flip green.
Pixalated what is your yake on all this.
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Back.
1) @ sqrt: Huh. You're right. I just went back to look at LII and there was the same rule in place. No one mentioned it there, when I brought it up then. Doesn't change my read on you, but thanks.
2) Regarding Eden's 5th point:
- The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here.
I'm not sure how I misread this in the recent posts into referring to the followup post about why I thought sqrt was scummy based on his timestamp, and I apologize for confusing fking everyone, including myself apparently. I thought the fifth point was why I thought sqrt was scummy based on that one post and the timing of it.
how to misread (spaces between bullets or numbers pls because i cannae read gud).
As for this in particular, I interpreted Eden's statement on mafia posting early reads list on Day 1 as basically stating that it isn't the time and place for such reads (and ultimately such fail bait attempt). His main argument was that my view of Valenius and Pixalated was too solid, both of which were my unsubtle scumbait attempts. At that point, I (think) I figured: whelp, no one's going to fall for those now, and I may as well give it up.
I understand that this looks horrendous, but eh.
Additionally Pixalated, is there anything else you have to say? Do you have any reads?
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Don't have much time to talk today before the Day ends, I'll try and post via phone later.
1) OK, while your post has made me re-evaluate Valenius and particularly my town read on that post (I'll try and review his filter if I have time and post about it), but at this stage it's probably a better Day 2 lynch to pursue. There is probably not enough time to get a wagon behind him at this point, so I would recommend focusing on myself and Cavalinho for a wagon.
2) I want Pixalated to post some of his reads when he wakes up. I only just noticed his sleep post.
3) I still don't like sqrt and I don't know why Eden is clearing him as town. If we were ignoring that I, Cavalinho, and Valenius apparently all have scumreads or scummy reads on him (there probably is one scum among us, TBH)
4) I'm incredulous that Eden has been trying to say that he hasn't planned out what happens if I'm green (and we'll cross that bridge when we get there), when he already decided to talk about what happens if when I flip red. First let's get through Day 1, before constructing scenarios of who's mafia partner with who, because it's all idle speculation until we get a flip. But whatever, I'm done dealing with his shit. Some of it's really just skirting the line of what's acceptable.
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*point 3) is unfinished
would he be ringing alarm bells here? I understand the concern here if scum is pushing him, but I still don't like him.
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Only post I can make atm on phone.
I still dont like sqrt. More than Cav and am keeping the vote here. The only other thing i can do is consolidate on Cavwho is also is scummy but less so. And already set for lynch. This Val wagon and pixalated wagon needs to be at unhitched now. Do it tom o rrow or at night. If you think im more scummy than Cav Ok, fking vote for me. Not going to stop you.
This is turning into a repeat of LII mafia.
Reread your tunneling posts Eden. youtube video, memes now pansy ass beta bitch. Thos is mafia but fking chill and tone it down. Im fne with heat but the insults are getting annoying
Phone outta batteries, so likely my last post.
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Have 5 minutes ro charge my phone. Let me take a quick look.
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Can only skim right now but...wtf.
Is this a Day1 parity cop claim?
Like even if he is what he says and doesnt die during the night it wont be till Day 3 till it activates and wut.
Yeah much as I don't like eden.
##vote: cavalinho
Wtf
Now back to tutoring kids.
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First off, this is LII newbie mafia all over again. Clearly this will end with lurker scum getting lynched Day 2, someone policy lynched for being a lurker town Day 3, then LYLO on Day 4. Let's go.
On March 28 2014 07:23 OnceKing wrote:
LT swapped late so I'm leaning more town on him.
Not a lot to be gleaned from outliers here as everyone seemed to push their cases a decent amount.
I'm tired atm, and have alot of filters I need to review before the night is over (probably won't be able to post substantively until close to the deadline), but how does that make me appear more town, because I'm scratching my head.
Finally, everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath. Ya we lost a blue role but whatever. It didn't alter the outcome of LII, and it (hopefully) won't alter it here, finally because we seem to be overvaluing it; it's a Parity Cop, at best it wasn't kick in until Day 3, and that's a maybe. I have to agree with Eden on this but there aren't many viable options here when faced with a Day 1 parity cop claim. If it were a cop claim, I would probably agree with you Robik, but...I feel you're over valuing it. We still need to make to catch scum Day 2, or else we have to survive 2 LYLO scenarios back to back, and I with the way town has progressed thus far, I'm not confident we could do that.
And the advice given after LII is that blue roles should NOT be played any differently from a green role, which Cavalinho seemed to be doing and just trying to survive (compare that kind of play to OK playing medic in LII). I feel bad Cavalinho was lynched twice D1 (and I survived again, lol), but there were enough discrepancies in his play and a lack of genuine contributions to warrant it.
That's all for now. Probably won't be able to post much till near the deadline but we'll see.
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I can only post close to the deadline because of legitimate time constraints tonight,
But to Robik and Valenius:
There’s general discussion that people should avoid talking about their reads to avoid directing Mafia’s night kill. This is wrong. Night is the best time to analyze the lynch and the events of the previous day, because after the kill, everyone is going to be focused on the night kill and the previous day will be drowned out.
AKA LII Newbie Mafia writeup we all should have read.
The correct play is TO be talking about it.
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EPT
