Doctor Who Mafia 2

This game is heavily themed.

On March 21 2014 23:14 thrawn2112 wrote:


i think you are wanting to know how much extra effort the themed part of the p requires?

On March 22 2014 04:16 geript wrote:

will you promise to play with lots of effort plx? I wanna try a new different style but I'll need good reads to sheep.

On March 23 2014 18:58 geript wrote:
/out. I need to focus on studying for NCLEx this week

On November 10 2013 07:28 marvellosity wrote:
thanks for the great game crossfire.

On March 30 2014 12:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
the issue I had with it is that it seemed halfway between a "rvs" vote and a real vote



he implies that he has a reason for voting rayn but that he doesn't want to say it yet

he also asks people to sheep him

So I obliged his sheep request and asked for the real reason, to try and figure out exactly how much of his vote was random and how much of it wa because he had a real reason to vote rayn.

Apparently it was completely an rvs vote, and now he thinks I'm scummy for obliging his request to sheep his rvs vote.

I still haven't gotten an answer as to why he asks people to sheep him, and then he votes for the people that sheep him. Especially since it all meant nothing anyway, I don't know how he turned it into a scumread on me.

On March 30 2014 13:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
it was the buddying reason right? but what i did was nothing like buddying, I sheeped his vote, which he actually requested.

it can't be buddying because i did not buddy him

On March 30 2014 14:12 thrawn2112 wrote:


do you think he is scum or town if you ignore his claiming nonsense?

On March 30 2014 17:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
stfu you are stupid.

On March 09 2014 14:50 Crossfire99 wrote:

Signup & Moderation Information

Wisdom of the Crowds
If you do not wish to play with a player for any reason, PM me, if I receive enough votes against a player then he or she will not be allowed to play in this game. Your vote against a player will be held in the strictest confidence. You *must* be signed up to vote against someone.

I also reserve the right to disallow players from this game myself. I don't expect to do much of this.

Moderation and Behaviour:

I expect two things from everybody who plays this game:

1. Play in such a way that everybody can have fun.
2. Play to win.

I view the second rule as a part of the first.

This means that you shouldn’t personally attack a player. Attack the argument, not the player. I know that mafia is an emotional game, and I am not going to modkill you for slipping up as long as you apologize for it and stop doing it. Continual, unrepentant, personal attacks are a big no no. Basically, play nice and be considerate of other people and realize that they aren’t you and can take things differently than you as well as be offended by things you wouldn’t be offended by.

Don't talk about replacing out, ragequitting etc. in the thread either. If you need to leave for whatever reason, talk to me privately and we can make arrangements.

---

Player List

1. Toadesstern
   
2. austinmcc
   
3. kitaman27
   
4. Hopeless1der
   
5. thrawn2112
   
6. raynpelikoneet
   
7. JarJarDrinks
   
8. kushm4sta
   
9. Vivax
   
10. Djodref
    
11. Amiko
    
12. gumshoe
    
13. Tehpoofter
    
14. Alakaslam
    

+ Show Spoiler [Flips] +

+ Show Spoiler [Replacements] +

+ Show Spoiler [Observers] +

On March 30 2014 15:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote
##vote Toadesstern
So basically you can't be town if you are not modkilled.

You are either lying which makes you mafia or you are breaking the rules if you are town.
geez.

Right now you are suspicious of me (who i know is town) and thrawn (who i think is town) so even if you are a survivor you are most likely not helping the town

On March 30 2014 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Unlike you at least i have my vote on someone who is not town.
You can do this all the time you want and you will lose in a shitfest kush. But go ahead.
Your reasoning is shit and i kinda hope you somehow get me lynched so i can call you shit in every game after this one.

On April 01 2014 19:05 Tehpoofter wrote:
@everyone, who do you think would use the extra vote that occurred on rayn and why? There is basically a confirmed vote manipulation mechanic no one is claiming it and it was used to lynch a town blue so like no way I can see its town sided role.

On April 01 2014 19:05 Tehpoofter wrote:
Thread is dead again. I'm going to bed.

Gum please speak at some point that would be amazing.

@everyone, who do you think would use the extra vote that occurred on rayn and why? There is basically a confirmed vote manipulation mechanic no one is claiming it and it was used to lynch a town blue so like no way I can see its town sided role.

Also before the night ends I think everyone putting in a top 2 town/scum reads (and including Slam is automatic bullshit) would be really useful to pigeon hole people who might be converted to scum in the night. Refusal to do this will be looked upon by me as scummy.

On March 31 2014 03:39 kitaman27 wrote:


Hey, I'm not the guy pushing a mass claim in a recruiter setup.

On a side note, it's quite possible that mafia numbers are going to be nerfed on day one if there is a alignment changing mechanic. We could very well be dealing with 1-2 at the start.

On April 01 2014 01:54 kitaman27 wrote:
Going after difficult targets is the last thing I'd want to do as mafia on day one. When I accuse a player, I want them to think I'm town or not put up a fight. I almost always go after the newbies because they will let me get away with it. I know rayn and kush are the types of players who will have a fit if I do so, so I'd simply pick someone like jarjar, poofter, or the easy slam vote today.

The biggest thing about rayn right now is how sure he is. I know that even with the case I have made, I'm not completely confident. He is sharing his reads with certainty with no evidence that he has looked at my past mafia games or questioned me at any point prior to me presenting the case. The biggest thing to address for him regarding my alignment is the shadow connection that I tried to make. Yet rather than suggesting that I tried to duplicate the town meta so that he would develop a town read on me, he ignores it completely.

Onto hopeless:

+ Show Spoiler +

I didn't really think too much of the post that Toad/Foolishness pointed out. Hopeless shows signs of guilt with his slam vote. As a town player, I'd expect annoyance from slam's play, yet this comes off as slightly apologetic. His defense of rayn at the start I found scummy and these posts sound as if he is writing them as mafia to sound town, but I admit that is a weak line of reasoning here.







These posts seem like the ideal mafia scenario if rayn is indeed town, which would be opportunistic from his perspective. He makes the assumption that if rayn flips town, I must be mafia. This is scummy because up until this point, he hasn't hinted at having a mafia read on me or having a problem with my case. In fact, he defends me explaining how I could coast along with the slam lynch. So there is a gap in logic here if he would be so open to my death.

At first, I really thought that rayn and hope could be scum buddies. rayn exploded with anger about Toad's post. He then showed a defeated attitude, as if he had no choice but to vote hope for an incredibly, incredibly weak reason. As buddies, he would have to anticipate a huge wagon on hope at that point and I wasn't feel the sentiment at that time. Since then it seems less likely that they are both mafia, with a shifting read on hope to town from rayn and an attack on rayn from hope after my case.

I would say that hope is scummy to me, but the discussion about the town vs town is all speculative, pre-flip analysis, which I'd want to avoid. The biggest point is how open he would be to see me die to enforce the 1v1 trade, without making any argument as to why we must be of opposite alignments.

There wasn't enough here to make me move off of rayn here. I'd like to do vivax/djo next and see if austin's points have any merits. austin himself I've ignored for the most part and I'll likely continue to do so until a red flag pops up.

On April 01 2014 21:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
kush why didnt you anounce your extra vote when it happened

On April 02 2014 13:46 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Did you not just read my last post? He defended rayn after rayn supposedly fell into his trap. Later on he made a whole case based on stuff that happened before the post where he defended him.

On March 31 2014 08:33 kitaman27 wrote:
hopeless vs slam is more appealing to me than rayn vs slam at the moment.

Even if I disagree with some of thing things he is saying, he is taking more stances and following through with them. hope on the other hand is kinda just there responding when he is called upon.

On April 03 2014 08:14 Vivax wrote:


Toad doesn't have a vote.

Or maybe kush stole his vote.

On April 04 2014 00:47 Vivax wrote:
It was pure speculation, a vote stealer role was also in personality mafia 2 I think so I figured kush=extra vote, Toad=lack of vote -> kush maybe stole it and wrote it down without much thought behind it.
It's not like you can say I had any malicious intentions with that post do you? Or do you think I used that post to push a scummy idea on the two of them? Well no I didn't and that should be evident.

On April 04 2014 13:58 Amiko wrote:
Caveat: At the moment my scumreads on hopeless and jarjar are based on the idea that hopeless is caught scum….
If hopeless provides an explanation I believe then I would probably push hopeless down on my scumlist. I would also need to re-evaluate JJD because I didn’t do a thorough filter dive of JJD for this post.

Summary (Most scum to most town)
scum/scummy
(Hopeless1der)
(JarJarDrinks)
weaker scumread
Kitaman27

To reread
(Not sure, but I generally feel djo / vivax is more towny than tehpoofter/thrawn)
Tehpoofter / Thrawn2112
Djodref / Vivax
Kushm4sta

towny
Austinmcc
(JarJar/Hopeless go here if I believe hopeless isn’t scum)

--
Scummy
(1) Hopeless1der
- Claimed Mickey Smith (watcher that must target whoever JJD targets)
- Claimed JarJarDrinks/Rose and Vivax/? both visited Austinmcc on n1
At this moment I feel I caught hopeless as scum (see my post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=95#1898) because he seems to have visit information that he shouldn’t have according to the terms of his role.

(2) JarJarDrinks
- Claimed Rose Tyler (has night visit, power unknown, target is watched by hopeless)
I’m not sure I would feel JJD is scum except for the interaction with hopeless1der. Basically, JJD is confirming hopeless by saying that he visited Austin.
It is possible JJD is innocent but still confirms hopeless. For instance, maybe hopeless is fakeclaiming, and his actual role lets him see who a town visits and learn the town’s role. He targets JJD, learns that JJD is Rose and that JJD visited Austin, then makes the fake claim.
This is possible, but it feels pretty remote to me. So, I think JJD is either town, or he is

Weaker Scumreads
(3) kitaman27
I am not satisfied with this explanation but I think it is compelling enough kita should make my scumlist. Kita has made two cases and I haven’t felt that good about either one. I read his filter and nothing really jumped out to me as scum, despite trying quite a bit to read through d1. I really felt like there should be something that jumped out given rayn’s certainty, but there wasn’t anything specific. I just didn’t like his cases.
I did vote rayn d1, but it was mostly because of some inconsistencies in rayn’s posts (that kita didn’t mention) and rayn’s reaction to kita’s case (which felt really off to me).
I didn’t like kita’s case d2 on Vivax.
I don’t know, I feel bad criticizing kita when he’s actually put effort into making cases. I feel like if kita dies I’m not confident we’ll have someone who will sort of force us to focus on a specific person. But, the cases just don’t feel right to me. I don’t like that he disappeared during some of the substantive talking at the end of d2, but I will be mostly forgiving because I get pulled into real life things too.
At the same time, I think the way kita’s case on rayn developed works against the idea that kita built cases around a player. To explain this better: I think town would read players, then make a case on the scummiest player. Mafia would look for someone to mislynch or who is a threat, and make a case around that player.
Here, it feels like kita’s method doesn’t let him pick who he can build the case around, so it doesn’t seem like a mafia case. But, then again, kita even admits that he encourages rayn to make reads on him and review his prior cases, so in some ways Kita is picking the target for the case.
I could write some more but honestly I’m just back and forth on Kita. It feels like there’s reasonable explanations for a lot of what he’s done, I just don’t like his cases and that’s kind of where it leaves me.

Reread
Tehpoofter / Thrawn2112 / Djodref / Vivax: I need to reread these players and place them, right now they feel neutral. I see djo and vivax as slightly more towny than tehpoofter and thrawn. But they all could use a re-read.
- Vivax claimed to visit austinmcc n1

Kushm4sta:
- Claimed extra vote d1
- Used vig shot d2
I’m a little scared of his role, but his shot on gumshoe felt townie to me… but I don’t really know what gumshoe was doing. Lol.

towny
(JarJar/Hopeless probably go here if I believe hopeless isn’t scum)
Austinmcc: I won’t pretend to fully understand him, but I feel he is town. His views just seem to align with mine pretty often – I noticed this again in the response to the push on Vivax.

--

Reads / Conversions
I think we should post reads, but actually working through this post made me feel that it is not a tool that will effectively nullify conversion.
We can’t really hold each other to our read list because other players in the game may be getting converted... even if everyone townreads someone, we can’t very well remove that person as a lynch candidate because it just means there’s a higher risk they’ll be converted. So I’m all for posting reads, but I would note there’s some problems there.

Followup
I’m got pulled away part way through this post and I’m going to sleep now. I’ll try to update on the people I need to reread when possible.
(Also seriously no one posted this whole time? D: )

[b]@kitaman27 : Are you willing to elaborate on your read of djodref? Specifically, this:

On April 04 2014 21:48 Coagulation wrote:
wow tehpoofter are you really using wifom about the obs thread to form your scumreads?

On April 04 2014 22:03 Hopeless1der wrote:


what the fuck is coagulation doing in this thread. I hope thats kush accidentally on his account from OMGUShydra

On April 05 2014 10:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
why didn't you inform town that your vote was going to count twice on D1?

On April 04 2014 00:16 kitaman27 wrote:




The biggest problem that I have with Vivax is his inconsistency between post 1 and 2. In the first post, he goes after Rayn for the easy slam lynch stating that slam should be dealt with at some point in the future, while trying to lynch mafia instead. I agree with that point and think it's generally good policy. Mid way through the day, he suggests that Slam could be a traitor and that he was willing to support a slam lynch, not necessarily because slam was mafia, but because it was a possibility that he was mafia. By the end of the day, Vivax wants to lynch slam to postpone a rayn lynch for another day.

Here is what I find scummy. I would expect a townie to follow this path of logic:

1) We should lynch mafia, rather than slam day one
2) Slam needs to be killed at some point to remove doubt, but lets see if I can find a likely mafia instead
3) rayn isn't the best lynch today, but player X is and this is why

This is Vivax's path:
1) We should lynch mafia, rather than slam day one
2) Slam needs to be killed at some point to remove doubt
3) rayn isn't the best lynch today, so I guess we have no choice but to lynch slam

I don't have a huge issue with Vivax wanting to not lynch rayn, but I do have an issue with the fact that he don't attempt to pursue a player that he thinks is scum. He says that he is working on things one by one, but in the end nothing comes of it. Sure, he questions thinks he finds suspicious and asks for opinions, but there is no follow up or statements attempting to convince others to lynch a certain player, rather than the settle vote at the end, which is what he was criticizing to begin with.



If Vivax argues that he was completely stumped on day one, had absolutely no mafia reads, and wanted more time to find a mafia player, I really don't like his nuke preference. He criticizes rayn for going for the easy target and calling it a day, while deciding not to suggest that the nuke be fired at a scum suspect on day two. He essentially settles two cycles in a row without indicating that he actually has a strong mafia read on slam, aside from cult speculation, which is more of a guess at a possibility than anything.



Stuff like this doesn't really seem like a mindset that he is thinking about things from a town perspective. Like toad claims to have a vote, kush claims to have two votes, so for kush to steal toad's vote, that would mean both toad and kush are lying/buddies, which doesn't even make sense.

His argument with hope today does seem like it makes a hope/vivax pair unlikely, which makes me worried about who else I'm overlooking. I do want to evaluate hope a bit more in depth before deciding between the two/others, but right now I'm leaning mafia.

On April 05 2014 23:41 kitaman27 wrote:
Oh I've been checked already? -_-

Sigh...

On April 06 2014 04:07 Coagulation wrote:
yeah nvm replace amiko with hopeless

On April 06 2014 10:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
but you called him town all game long