Cultured Mini Mafia

On February 24 2014 21:38 Mocsta wrote:

I rolled mafia 6 times in 8 games since nov13

Im due for town love.

On February 24 2014 22:55 marvellosity wrote:

Pretty good hitrate bro :p

Also I didn't lynch you in Hogwarts, I was just suspicious of you when I died N1 :d What was the other game you were town?

On February 24 2014 22:58 marvellosity wrote:

LIX? No, I had you as town very early.

[17:01:43] <Toad|> "Bugs just calls people nazis, and jews, usually both at the same time and then proceeds to call you mafia for shits and giggles all game long because he likes to see you rage despite us both being town.
[17:01:43] <Toad|> Actually yeah, I can see how some people might consider that funny."
[17:01:48] <Toad|> would that be something ban-worthy on TL?
[17:02:12] <Promethelax> As a jew, I laughed
[17:02:59] <Toad|> probably shouldn't post it with the recent kush thing though^^
[17:04:25] <Toad|> it should be fine with your seal of approval though!

On February 24 2014 21:38 Mocsta wrote:

I rolled mafia 6 times in 8 games since nov13

Im due for town love.

On February 24 2014 22:52 Toadesstern wrote:

Damn, I know that feel. 5 mafia out of 7 games and marv called me mafia in all 7 of them

On February 25 2014 02:13 Holyflare wrote:
6/9 scum games in a row no ty

On February 26 2014 00:04 suki wrote:
I dislike Palmar so much that I will WotC him out of games that he's not even in.

Also stop calling me suko it's annoying

On February 26 2014 09:30 Toadesstern wrote:
... on purpose?

On February 26 2014 09:34 suki wrote:


I just claimed Harry Potter if you weren't reading so life is pretty swag. And IRC mafia doesn't count.

So what's the plan this game Toad? Gonna slip up early in Day 1 and give us an easy scum lynch like our last game together?

On February 26 2014 09:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Toad are you a miller?

On February 26 2014 09:44 geript wrote:
Well that's easy.

##vote toadesstern

On February 26 2014 09:47 geript wrote:

No I don't. Look at the reason for the read he gave and don't tell me it's not bullshit.

On February 26 2014 09:53 geript wrote:

The miller thing is a silly question. But super fast townread for bullshazazzle reasons. It's not a weird enough reason to call you town to make the observation likely come from town. Equally it's not obvious enough to be an alright soft read. It's just a completely random townread for no reason. That's super scummy.

On February 26 2014 09:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I like what you are doing. We can be townbuddies.

On February 26 2014 09:42 Toadesstern wrote:

of course not, but I like this question. You replace WoS as my buddy to murder all of mafia. Easiest townread ever

On February 26 2014 09:39 Toadesstern wrote:

plan is to lynch mafia decidingly and continue doing so. Slip isn't going to happen, I'm town as you might be able to realize soon enough.

Plan for today is to have millers claim to get that out of the way.

On February 26 2014 09:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Toad are you a miller?

On February 26 2014 09:42 Toadesstern wrote:

of course not, but I like this question. You replace WoS as my buddy to murder all of mafia. Easiest townread ever

On February 26 2014 09:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I like what you are doing. We can be townbuddies.

On February 26 2014 09:53 geript wrote:

The miller thing is a silly question. But super fast townread for bullshazazzle reasons. It's not a weird enough reason to call you town to make the observation likely come from town. Equally it's not obvious enough to be an alright soft read. It's just a completely random townread for no reason. That's super scummy.

On February 26 2014 10:42 geript wrote:
Yup, I'm happy with my vote.

On February 26 2014 10:43 WaveofShadow wrote:

This reads exactly like your post on Mocsta and I don't like it. Do you always base your reads entirely on their most recent game? (Speaking of which, don't talk about ongoing games).

Toad I actually did follow Geript's thought process to some degree.
And I actually had no idea about the miller stuff until you just mentioned it.

If you're sticking around Toad I can discuss with you a little.

On February 26 2014 10:46 WaveofShadow wrote:

Will there be gifs?

On February 26 2014 09:53 geript wrote:

The miller thing is a silly question. But super fast townread for bullshazazzle reasons. It's not a weird enough reason to call you town to make the observation likely come from town. Equally it's not obvious enough to be an alright soft read. It's just a completely random townread for no reason. That's super scummy.

On February 26 2014 10:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No it's actually the fact that if you were mafia you would not call me town for something like that and vise versa.
Because why would you? Unless we are both mafia. Which we both know we are not.

geript not reaching to this conclusion is imo weird as fuck.

On February 26 2014 10:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah Toad defs town.
Toad I don't take any issue with Geript's first post really but reading his second I can't actually tell if he knew what was going on or not. If he doesn't know what's going on his thought process makes some degree of sense to me in that the ;townreads for silly reasons' has some merit to it, but then he talks about trolling and counter-trolling which sort of negates that making sense at all.

On February 26 2014 10:58 Toadesstern wrote:


exactly my though as well. I read his first post and thought it's weird, he certainly did sound like he knew what was going on.
Like you said the second post, the one spoilered in my big posts makes it look like he had no idea about it after all, which got me back to neutral on him.
AFTER I explained the situation he gets in here and tells us his vote is exactly where it needs to be and again, makes it look like he knew what was going on all along by stating that he already explained his reasoning (mind I add, before I explained stuff), which would be obsolete had he not understood the situation.

This makes no sense

On February 26 2014 10:02 geript wrote:

His townread on you is super weird. Maybe I'm just too zealous and too super srs, but I didn't read his response as counter-trolling where I read your read on him as early trolling. So his response isn't a weird enough read (e.g. Vivax "everyone who's posted before me is probably town" read in LXI or Vayne's "Geript not scum with Yamato/Wave" read based on scum talking to each other early in whatever game we just got out of) to be a serious read. But it's equally not an obvious read because you're obvious town. And since I don't read it as trolling, there's only one possibility.

Also curse you for forcing me to walk upstairs while I was watching SVU so I could type this out and explain it.

On February 26 2014 10:43 WaveofShadow wrote:

This reads exactly like your post on Mocsta and I don't like it. Do you always base your reads entirely on their most recent game? (Speaking of which, don't talk about ongoing games).

Toad I actually did follow Geript's thought process to some degree.
And I actually had no idea about the miller stuff until you just mentioned it.

If you're sticking around Toad I can discuss with you a little.

On February 26 2014 21:16 Toadesstern wrote:




This is directly responding to my question to reevaluate the situation given that I, at that time, had explained what was going on. I, same as WoS, wasn't sure if you actually knew what was going on, might have been just a confused townie who didn't know what was going on, in which case his confusion about the townread would make sense. It would prove he's not reading the OP but that's hardly alignment indicating.

Instead he points me at his explanation PRIOR to my explanation, which would be completly and utterly uselss if that was done under the basis of not knowing what was going on. So he is CLEARLY stating he knew that I was redfishing all along, he clearly knew about the millers and thinks the townread makes no sense when indeed it makes an awful lot of sense.

I am restating this to make sure people get the timing of these events correctly. I've seen a bunch of comments from people but none of them are really commiting to anything. I remember JJD saying I made sense, I remember 2 people I don't know saying geript makes no sense, I remember suki saying there are no millers which seems fairly odd (now that I think about it, she might have been just not known what's going on and thought WoS misunderstood me... have to reread that) and WoS posting this:


which is basicly a giant "yeah makes sense with your explanation but I totally didn't know about it. Could be geript totally didn't know about it either despite looking like he did. See that 2nd post he did? Maybe he's just confused" and then a lot of nothing because he looks like he doesn't want to wifom over this as long as he has no idea about geripts state of knowledge.

We do know how much geript knew about this. Geript clearly stated that he knew what was going on all along. Stop talking about it as if there was a possibility of it not being the case and tell me what you make of geript given the conclusion that he knew about it all along.

Like I said, I see a bunch of talk about him and a bunch of "this is weird", yet I'm the only one voting him. Why is that?
Need to pick up my sis, be back in an hour.

On February 26 2014 21:25 Holyflare wrote:
Toad why you writing so much to justify your read on geript who you are already voting for? This is what doesn't add up:




Why are you using all of this to push geript when you thought he was scummy before you gave him the chance to explain? Explain and vote do not go together.

On February 26 2014 11:33 Mocsta wrote:
So...

in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy.
in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie.
in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town.

Congratz JJD.

On February 26 2014 22:24 geript wrote:

Toad calls for millers to claim
Rayn asks Toad if he's a miller
Toad says no but he likes the question
Rayn's response to Toadescum is like really really towny; it's an exceptionally off the cuff and funny that it's very hard to come from scum. The problem is that it's rayn and he's done this as either alignment many times. So that's why it's only semi-alignment indicative for Rayn. The thing is, at no point does any of this help read Toad; the initial miller thing isn't alignment indicative; recognizing Rayn's response as towny isn't alignment indicative. Like the only thing that's happened since him returning to the thread for him is nothing. If he were town, he'd at least try to give me an honest read. But since he's not he's probably just scum who fixated on a dashing sexy guy.
[b\##unvote
##vote toadescum

On February 26 2014 22:28 Toadesstern wrote:


So you think I am mafia because according to you, redfishing isn't alignment indicative, which I already stated myself and has nothing to do with why I read rayn as town or why I think his read on me is a nice one.

Because the rest of your post just explains how it's not alignment indicative.
And then you go on about how I don't give you an honest read? What? I said the read is 100% honest and serious at least 4 times now. Both reads actually if you want to include yourself as well because as you might have realized I'm getting you lynched right now.

On February 26 2014 22:30 Mocsta wrote:

Is this for real... the entire point of those 3 lines was to state that JJD always reads me wrong
he got it straight away.

This isnt rocket science toad.

On February 26 2014 22:32 Holyflare wrote:





Also,

On February 26 2014 22:55 geript wrote:

1. It's early game. Trolly shazazzle like miller stuff will happen. I remember someone (maybe Kush) claiming Doc in a setup with no doc. Your initial miller post is completely not alignment indicative. The other thing that you're missing is that your town read on him, my snap feel was that you were scum and I forgot about the miller thing. Then to explain I reread to make sure I wasn't crazy; dismissed the miller stuff as unimportant and continued. Even when you explained the miller thing later on, it's complete frakking bullshazazzle because your initial response is nothing like that. Even on top of it, like the miller thing is just stupid because millers are going to do whatever the frak they were going to do.

On February 26 2014 09:49 Toadesstern wrote:

It's actually a pretty damn serious one.

Do you not pay attention or are you confused right now?
I want an answer, don't treat this as some kind of trolling, I'm dead serious right now.

On February 26 2014 10:38 Toadesstern wrote:
[...]

I repeatedly asked him to look at it and explain himself, making it clear that I want him to pay attention, stating that I am in fact 100% serious when I said what I said.
He ended up making another post which implies that he had no idea what's going on at all,
+ Show Spoiler [this one] +

I don't think those 2 posts from him fit together. Thoughts?

On February 26 2014 23:16 geript wrote:
Ok so toad is scum. You guys can lynch him now and we can move on with the game or if by some act of god he gets me lynched, then you can lynch his ass next. I'll gladly trade for lynching him.

On February 26 2014 22:24 geript wrote:

Toad calls for millers to claim
Rayn asks Toad if he's a miller
Toad says no but he likes the question
Rayn's response to Toadescum is like really really towny; it's an exceptionally off the cuff and funny that it's very hard to come from scum. The problem is that it's rayn and he's done this as either alignment many times. So that's why it's only semi-alignment indicative for Rayn. The thing is, at no point does any of this help read Toad; the initial miller thing isn't alignment indicative; recognizing Rayn's response as towny isn't alignment indicative. Like the only thing that's happened since him returning to the thread for him is nothing. If he were town, he'd at least try to give me an honest read. But since he's not he's probably just scum who fixated on a dashing sexy guy.
##unvote
##vote toadescum

On February 27 2014 00:45 Mocsta wrote:
Toad,
I think you are treating this scenario based on how *YOU* would approach the situation.

Your interpretation is plausible:
RAyn is town, was aware of the OP and demonstrated quick wit which yes, leans heavily towards town over scum.

What you may not be aware of is:
Rayn is a setup man and as either alignment always has firm opinions on how to approach the setup optimally.

The fact that he had the mental acuity to do the miller "joke" instead of berate you is not a solid town tell for someone like Rayn - which Geript rightfully pointed out.

Thus, its also plauisble:
Rayn was aware this was a trap, and dismantled the trap in an optimal manner. This applies as town or scum. i.e. he didnt attack you because the trap was so stupid he would look bad for doing it.

I find the second option more likely.....

On February 27 2014 00:53 geript wrote:
Toad confirmed liar. Miller thing was trolly and he fucking knows it. His reads for calling Rayn town a fraking stupid; not wonky or weird enough to be towny. Just completely made up and not alignment indicative for anyone let alone Rayn. Third, he's completely taking things out of context and not even trying to understand how you can get a townie response from Rayn while the miller thing on his half is completely null. Anyone who can't see this needs to go back to the newbies for a year. It's completely fucking obvious.

On February 27 2014 01:01 Mocsta wrote:
Yeah i got the thing was to do with Geript. I was just commenting on that specific piece.

With Geript, im still null with him; but personally hes not the type of guy I feel comfortable with lynching Day 1.
Further, whilst I kinda get where you are coming from.. I feel some things are being given a toad interpretation.

When I think of my motives when I play scum, and how my scum mates played in GSL mini.. i dont think we were trying to blatantly piss people off early Day1.
You are poking aroudn for opportunities and yes, if you see them you will go for it (case in point: Rayn).. i dunno i just think a scum guy would have dropped this by now. Geripts maintained his position much like yourself and avoided discussing anything else.. much like yourself

to me this really reads more like town CB than scum feigning.

Another reason why Im suspect of Chz. Hes picking and choosing what to comment on and is actively adjusting his reads with thread sentiment.

On February 27 2014 01:06 geript wrote:

Calling for Millers to claim in a game where there aren't millers is a complete troll and you know that. Good thing I got rid of the "too stupid to be scum" heuristic because it would apply here.

On February 27 2014 01:12 geript wrote:

No that's not what I'm saying about the rayn read. I'm calling your reasons for calling him town complete BS. I can totally see many players thinking Rayn's town for that comment; that's fine imo. The problem is that your reasons for calling him town have nothing whatsoever to do with the "easiest townread ever" thing. Like his response was completely towny for most people because of how spontaneous and funny it is; that's super hard to recreate as scum. But your reasoning has zero to do with any obvious reason for why he's town and all to do with things that are completely BS, don't really fit with rayn's town meta and aren't alignment indicative for anyone.

On February 27 2014 01:05 geript wrote:



Yah, it's super easy because your reasons for calling him town are completely fail. You "completely get" how I can have a townread on him for how he responds but that doesn't factor into ANY OF YOUR REASONS for him being town. Like Rayn not calling you a retard doesn't make him anything in this or any other situation. Rayn not causing chaos and confusion actually makes him more likely to be scum; have you even seen half of his town games. Every other game or so Rayn is fucking awful as town and is worse for town than if he were scum; hell he'd even say this. More importantly, he doesn't operate to cause chaos and confusion as scum; he tries to lead town to mislynches all along the way. Saving lynchbait Toadescum for later is a peachy keen plan. Rayn calling you town doesn't make him anything in this or any other situation. You visably recognize and understand how I can have a townread on him, your beef is that it doesn't extend to you for something that's completely trolly and 100% not alignment indicative of ANYONE LET ALONE YOU BISH. Get over it scum.

On February 27 2014 01:28 geript wrote:
Toadescum. Idgaf what you think or ever thought about claiming miller. It's trolly regardless and I wish Palmar were here to help lynch you.

On February 27 2014 01:48 JarJarDrinks wrote:

huh?

On February 27 2014 02:22 geript wrote:

If I flip red though, why would you bother reading Chyz or however it's spelled. Like that's one of the stupidest things anyone could say. Like you're happy he's voting with you now, but when I flip red, then you're willing to take a serious look at him? That's real fucking scummy bro.

On February 27 2014 02:42 geript wrote:
Nah dude, as in you are semi suspicious of someone on your wagon but you're happy to mislynch them later. Like there's not even any suspicion about the fact that lots of people have me in the null zone but he's happy to follow your wagon with a super questionable scum read on me. Like how is it that you aren't even evaluating whose following your read to analyze if it's a good read?

On February 27 2014 02:52 Holyflare wrote:
Why are you arguing with your scum read toad? He doesn't need convincing if he's scum and if you think you've found scum you should be having conversations with us not him

On February 27 2014 03:04 Vivax wrote:
Toad you're overestimating the impact of people saying that you troll or lie in other games, I don't think that anybody cares besides geript. You are encouraged to stop defending your integrity and find scum.

On February 26 2014 21:25 Holyflare wrote:
Toad why you writing so much to justify your read on geript who you are already voting for? This is what doesn't add up:




Why are you using all of this to push geript when you thought he was scummy before you gave him the chance to explain? Explain and vote do not go together.

On February 27 2014 05:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
fucking shit geript has to be town.
but please please don't be like thins geript. okay?

On February 27 2014 05:37 Toadesstern wrote:

dude don't let take too stupid to be town as a towntell...

He's been omgus'ing me the entire day
When he saw that's not working he started spouting lies
And now that that's not working, you both got in the thread and told him to shut up he realized that's not working either and he's going for that...

It's like a tour around the block to see what works...

On February 27 2014 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and Toad can you give your opinions on Mocsta?

On February 27 2014 05:51 Holyflare wrote:


do you care to elaborate on that? you used me posting against geript to bolster how geript wasn't making sense, my vote is on mocsta and I have been pressuring him all the game, yet, i'm with both of them?

On February 27 2014 05:28 Toadesstern wrote:
any thoughts on this you two



?
This still rubs me in all the wrong ways

On February 27 2014 05:53 Holyflare wrote:


also adding to this, you seem to agree with a lot of what mocsta is saying but he's also in your bottom three over people like chyz that everyone and their mother has been discussing? don't get it

On February 26 2014 22:09 Toadesstern wrote:
oh Mocsta already came to the rescue. Good boy.

On February 26 2014 11:25 Mocsta wrote:

Are you going to tell me now that all our IRC conversations about Toad were lies?

In my opinion, if you are town, and you dont respect a players ability as town you tend to avoid reading their alignment (e.g. Slam)

Early game you are chasing ppl you feel confident about reading that can help you.

Frankly, the reason I asked your opinion on wave was because I thought we could be useful together if you are town since we just played scum together.
Given that decision I took, it is indeed odd to me you did the same but with Toad.

On February 27 2014 06:30 Holyflare wrote:


It's not so much agreeing per se but more the fact that the only reason you start to jump on mocsta is because of something i wrote (scum slip thing) and then when he explains it you completely drop your initial suspicion and talk over points with him and instead of getting to the bottom of motives you instead just disagree or point out why you think what he is saying is wrong/not possible. It doesn't look like an interaction with someone in your "bottom 3" scum suspects at all.

Then there's your read on me... which is.... just lol

On February 27 2014 06:57 geript wrote:
If that's the case then you need to explain how Moc is different from Toad then. Because toad is like sacred terrify for you but doing the same shit.

On February 27 2014 07:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No what gerpit is accusing you of is totally not what i just described of Mocsta.

On February 27 2014 07:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
btw i guarantee everyone Holyflare is town.
You may call me the worst mafia player ever if he is mafia in this game.

On February 26 2014 09:16 Toadesstern wrote:
Ange's super cool, she's the sister of someone else who's playing mafia, from Frankfurt and we had it planned to meet in Frankfurt at some kind of Schnitzelplace to eat some with Foolishness because he'll be in Germany. But I never heard back from her and I assume it's never going to happen.

She can always either jap or china if I'm not mistaken. I think it was China. The other 2 no idea.

On February 27 2014 08:18 Cavalinho wrote:


Because I died immediately last game.

I'm going to try being much more measured instead of just posting shit and seeing what happens.

On February 27 2014 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Now this is not really what translates to clarity and transparent so i heavily disagree with this post.
There is no reason why one should not give out townreads, especially with reasoning. I understand the "useless" part but if half of the players find someone scummy and you don't, there is no reason to do what you did, which is you said "TheChyz is not scum but i won't tell you why".

You cut off the bad cases if you know better because it gives people a better read on you and if you are right it forces the town to focus on targets that are important.

On February 02 2013 07:55 Toadesstern wrote:
2 Nominations from LIX

1) Vivax for WTF-Award, from BC's TL Mafia LIX
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344&currentpage=104#2071
into http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344&currentpage=104#2074
into http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344&currentpage=105#2084

TL;DR Sup guys I'm a DT, it's D2 and I've got a red check on Gonzaw, but let's lynch the mayor (Marv) who succesfully lynched mafia d1 instead because we can just go for the big fish and Gonzaw (red check) already used his joat powers after all. After lynching Marv we should probably lynch Toad, the sheriff who ended up being sheriff with exactly as many votes as my red check Gonzaw, just comming in as second because he had 4 votes sooner. Once those two are dead we can lynch my red check and 5 other guys.

On February 27 2014 09:03 Toadesstern wrote:
yeah. I've got geript, Holy and Mocsta as red/orange/yellow in that order. If I ignore Holy for because of mysterious meta reasons the only people I'm left with are Ange and gumshoe as replacements.
gumshoe technically speaking a green on my list but the weakest of them all.
Ange still neutral for obvious reasons.

On February 27 2014 09:08 Holyflare wrote:


How can you go from stating like 1 page back that we shouldn't be giving out town reads but then the next page literally just asking for town reads?????

Also @ Toad, why have you continuously put me in your top 3 scum reads but your only reasoning is for one post that I questioned you about? What is my scum motivation behind that? What else is there that makes you lean scum on me over people that have not been present or opportunistically posting? You haven't qualified it or discussed anything about me at all, or mocsta, yet we're still in your top 3.

On February 27 2014 12:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yes and he either got it which modconfirms him as town or he didn't which makes him scum.
Anyways the statement is out game information and totally BS.

On February 24 2014 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
I actually just send in a request for hosts to deny any possibly requests from anyone else. I want a fair chance to roll whatever just like anyone else.

On February 27 2014 17:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:


green: Toad does not respect my town play -> i often have crap reads in his opinion
red: but he trusts my meta-read on Holyflare enough to ignore his scum suspect

These two don't go together very well.

On February 27 2014 23:10 Mocsta wrote:
Toad, did you read the context of why I raised that point?

It was specifically relating to gumshoe saying he is aware of my mentality because we played scum together.

The sad thing is, this is very similar to your position (just opposite decision) with the miller claim (i.e. you would have gone after Rayn as scum)
The fact that you are not dropping this, is highly indicative that you are town.

On February 27 2014 12:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fine, Mocsta is modconfirmed town, i have made my decision.
If Mocsta is mafia this game is invalid. Thank you for ruining the game Mocsta.
##unvote

I'll look into other people tomorrow. Good night.

On February 28 2014 00:18 Vivax wrote:
I don't get it Toad (that video and what it has to do with me, but funny nontheless). Besides, do you understand the rayn thingy? I still don't comprehend how Mocsta is supposed to be modconfirmed.

On February 28 2014 00:18 Mocsta wrote:
Toad,
Why are you fixated on getting the support of Rayn.

Everytime you keep raising this issue (that everyone else has said is not an issue) you bring up Rayn.

This is growing tiresome.

On February 28 2014 00:20 Holyflare wrote:
toad... what....? how have i now dropped off your list

On February 27 2014 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
VIVAX
Let's begin:

Vivax's opening post (not counting the geript townseal horseshit).
Initially when I looked at this I thought it was worth some town points given that he can come up with a narrative on gumshoe that made a good deal of sense and was from a POV I nor anyone else in the thread had considered thus far. I was wrong about this as Rayn showed me---JJD essentially mentioned it earlier, though obviously not nearly this fleshed-out. It's actually not too bad except for two things.
The first being the bolded section: gumshoe 'overjustifies' by giving reasons for sheeping Mocsta and trying to bring his own opinion to someone else's case/scumread. Townies do this all the friggin' time, and I see no reason why this is scum-indicative alone. If town doesn't want to sheep for no reason then gumshoe is doing the right thing AND providing his own reasons for agreeing with Mocsta. The second problem with this was brought up before: why now?

Vivax finally explains here after being endlessly prodded:


Now there is nothing wrong with that on its own but Vivax shows here that he has none of the townie desire to 'get to the bottom of things' and figure out what gumshoe's alignment truly is.
I find the post 'interesting' as I mentioned earlier and he posts this:

How is the fact that there was a MASSIVE discussion around determining gumshoe's alignment irrelevant if that is the purpose of posting a case on him in the first place? Like that's basic scumhunting 101---find scum. Vivax posts a case and just asks for comments, he doesn't actually seem to be interested in figuring out gumshoe at all. + Show Spoiler +I'll get back to this.


I mentioned this post earlier and immediately I got the willies. Shitting on thread atmosphere when basically everyone in here has been (apparently) earnestly trying in one form or another to do some determination, and Vivax has the nerve to come in here after doing dick all and call out others. Also important to note is the preemptive lurker call. This is scum mindset right here: call myself out for something real easy so nobody else has the chance to do so. And hey, if anyone brings this up, I can always say: "Well why as scum would I draw attention to myself in that way?" There are many scum who have no issues drawing attention to themselves, me included. Vivax doesn't strike me as being afraid of the spotlight. It sounds WIFOMy but it absolutely isn't. It shows clear scum guilt and a scum mindset. Town has absolutely no reason to post this.



And yet, this:

Vivax puts a lot of effort into making a case that calls me hypocritical and yet does similar things himself. He calls out gumshow for not gathering info for town and yet town wants his Chyz read,which he refuses to offer.

He gives his reasoning later in here:

But I disagree with this, and apparently so does Rayn. I find absolutely no reasoning why you can't provide a townread, ESPECIALLY when providing said townread allows people to get a read of YOU. It has NOTHING to do with town circlejerking around each other's reads, this post makes it simply seem like you're avoiding giving the Chyz read above because it's bullshit and you don't want people reading you because of it.

Vivax's points also reek of someone who is trying to come up with justification as he goes along:

Already commented on this---uses 'feels' to try to make me look bad even though whether 'feels' are ACTUALLY bad or not doesn't matter worth a damn to me and people who have played with me since I started using them know that. Has absolutely nothing to do with the main set of points he tries to use against me---the perceived hypocrisy which in fact, ISN'T.


He neglects to mention this last point in that case full of effort I linked above, why just drop it here? Oh I know, just looking for more random crap to paint me in a scummy light, despite the fact that (as I already explained) I did in fact read the gumshoe scumgame and it was part of what very obviously led me to be very unsure of gumshoe's alignment as he is hyper-aware of his own meta.

More 'justification trying' below:
Complains about gumshoe sheeping weakly while adding a random point for overjustification earlier...well what do you know! Look here!

'FIlterskim-' yeah that basically sums up Vivax's efforts this game. Association reads Mocsta based on his random-ass townread of me and takes a basically inane question and calls it scummy. Bingo, good enough to sheep Rayn!


TL;DR
Vivax has a clear scum agenda throughout his posting. He has no desire to actually read through the filters of any of his scumspects (Mocsta, me, gumshoe), provides weak reads that are all then dropped---he cba to actually figure out the alignment of the people he talks about because he doesn't have to DO that as scum. When he does he comes up with his reads and what he wants to do FIRST and adds in weak justification points later---not the towny way, bro.

Vivax is obvscum to me at this point. A much stronger read than Mocsta (at least to me) and I believe he needs to be lynched.

No more ignoring the points I'm bringing up about Vivax, I expect people to read this and if they still find Vivax towny, I want to know WHY. If you're all still on Mocsta you can at the very least have a look at this before he comes back.

On February 28 2014 02:31 Vivax wrote:
Toad the town atmosphere thing was cause of your and geript's argument which was something that looked like it would lead to nowhere. I already explained this, and also tried to improve the situation as you already acknowledged.

On February 27 2014 02:53 Vivax wrote:
Jeez why couldn't I roll scum in this game. You guys are all so busy with fighting each other in such an unproductive way, and nobody called me out for not doing anything since I posted those points on gumshoe

Oh well back to lurking.

On February 28 2014 03:45 geript wrote:


Funny how Toad backs off on his read on Cavalinho. It's like he never had any read on him in the first place. Like there's 0 reason in his filter for ever having a read on him and there's no reason for him ever having him town now. Well played scum.

On February 28 2014 03:48 Toadesstern wrote:

exactly. My read on him isn't strong, like I mentioned. I only mentioned him once, maybe twice because my read isn't strong.

What exactly are you accusing me off? That I don't have a strong read on every single player in the game and end up saying my read ong Cav isn't strong?
Gosh thanks for calling me town I guess.

Has the first quote anything to do with the thing or is it just to highlight the omgus?

On February 28 2014 03:50 gumshoe wrote:


This still stands.

On February 28 2014 03:53 geript wrote:

No, you've FUCKING NEVER HAD A READ ON HIM YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!!!!! You posted a list of who's town, that's not a read. That doesn't come close to resembling a read. It's the exact same shit that you pulled with Suki and Vivax. Both of which you're happy to retract based on thread sentiment. NO YOU'RE SCUM AND I WISH MARV WERE HERE TO HELP ME LYNCH YOUR LYING ASS!!!! The fact that no one can find it possible or realistic or whatever just makes them fucking awful because their reads on your are based on nothing.

On February 27 2014 08:19 Toadesstern wrote:

I like this guy

On February 28 2014 03:57 geript wrote:

lol. That's not a read. That's not even close to a read. If you are town and think that's a read then you need to stop ever playing mafia because that would make you the dumbest person in history. Like a walrus, dolphin or orangutan could make a better mafia read.

On February 28 2014 04:00 Vivax wrote:


I just can't believe that this post could come from scum, get the fuck off of geript.

On February 27 2014 05:37 Toadesstern wrote:

dude don't let take too stupid to be town as a towntell...

He's been omgus'ing me the entire day
When he saw that's not working he started spouting lies
And now that that's not working, you both got in the thread and told him to shut up he realized that's not working either and he's going for that...

It's like a tour around the block to see what works...

On February 28 2014 04:11 Vivax wrote:
I'm not lynching geript today, that's for sure.

I wouldn't expect that kind of emotionality from scum. He gives me a strong impression that he actually believes what he writes, and even if a townie writes nonsense, he can still be townie for the way he supports it. You posted LIX, toad. I am the living proof for that.

On February 28 2014 05:59 WaveofShadow wrote:

He might but he's made it extremely clear that he's throwing his vote away now and for the foreseeable future (with some possible movement to suki or some shit?)

JJD: I'll read it, but I can't say I'm going to be supporting a gumshoe lynch at this time.

Vivax, you haven't answered my question.
What is it you would say you've been doing for the past few hours?

I may open the floor to this question to other people. Maybe not Holy though.

On February 28 2014 06:20 Vivax wrote:


geript I would say

On February 28 2014 06:38 gumshoe wrote:


This is a big part of where my Moc read is coming from, I think he would have done similar.

I have no issue letting Vivax's claim play out tommorow, just dont think theres a point, would still love to lynch Suki.

On February 28 2014 22:37 Vivax wrote:
I don't see how your flip would make people want to lynch geript more.

On February 28 2014 22:29 Toadesstern wrote:
[...]
Also I don't really think geript is that likely to be mafia anymore, I just want to take a dig at him for being a retard I'm never going to play again with if he so happens to flip town, which I am inclined to believe right now and once I'm dead you can figure out if he's just a common retard or a scummy retard. Anyways, that's been it for me.

On February 28 2014 22:16 Toadesstern wrote:
I am back and here's the plan. Shoot me Vivax, lynch geript next day.

Awesome lynch on GF yesterday and that's cool but there's no way in hell I can motivate myself to do a thing with geript still going for me for some horsecrap reasons and now that I've been on the not-GF voteend I can see how it would make sense for some of you to end up thinking that maybe even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn, geript will have another day of doing absolutely nothing and this won't go anywhere.

Mammy told me to play to my wincon and I don't think this goes against it as it completly eliminates confusion for you and gives you a much cleared lynch d2:

Don't shoot someone else Vivax, just shoot me in the face, I'll flip green, you have that out of the way and can start looking at people that really are scummy and Geript has no excuse whatsoever to waste another day. We're not going to lose by having a vig shoot the wrong guy after lynching GF day1 and I'm going to be a burden for the rest of the game, rather have that be taken out by a vig than a non-commital lynch that ends up being nothing but "herpaderp, totally didn't vote Suki" and you get nothing out of it information-wise, Sorry for screwing up d1, seems like mafia was lurking and happy at how WoS/Rayn/Toad were on the wrong track all along and probably was confident that town would eventually end up following one of our, apparently wrong reads.

That's it for now, see you in roughly 12 hours,

On March 08 2014 09:12 geript wrote:

No. I never should've been modkilled. I specifically tried to "be good." And I was. Keep on whining because I caught your ass because you're so fucking awful at mafia (and by that I mean as any alignment).

On March 08 2014 09:18 geript wrote:
No it wasn't. Anyone who thinks that is absolutely retarded. You can't do the following:
1. Townread
2. Say Townread is 100% srs
3. Explain townread by using things which only happened after 1.
When you add to that the phrasing and verbage used, it makes it fucking obvious. Anyone who can't get that needs to fucking never play again.

On March 08 2014 09:19 geript wrote:

I'm sorry I'm so smart that I can't compensate for everyone else's stupidity.

On March 08 2014 09:25 geript wrote:

No. Town wouldn't explain it that way. Town wouldn't have responded back the same way. Town wouldn't have pushed me all day for it either. I even commented on how it didn't feel like town-town interaction because he did ever seek to understand my point of view. That was the reason why at the end I started to think about what HF was doing because at no point after D1 did he give a fuck about who or what he lynched. He was happy for any lynch at any point. He also wasn't seeking to reach an understanding or agreement. I wasn't 100% on him, but I doubt I would've lynched Chyz.

On March 08 2014 09:33 Promethelax wrote:
Geript's original reason for calling toad scum was good. Toad did something with the scummy intent of making himself look town and making strong quick reads, geript picked up on that correctly.

Toad played well d1 but the thing geript caught him out on was actually a thing he, as scum, chose to do for his image. Picking up on that was excellent.

Geript does need to learn to lead when he has decent reads though. Good reads don't matter without being able to convince people of them. He and I have talked in pm about this and I hope he will keep it in mind.

On March 08 2014 13:55 Holyflare wrote:
Also, toad, that wasn't a terrible bus. I was confident suki could talk her way out of the lynch because she is a good player. I even asked her to make sure. Unfortunately she ended up not having enough time to play and so it ended up being her lynch due to a lack of time to fight it rather than say mocsta.