EPT[M][N] Default Suspicions Mafia - Page 12
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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On February 24 2014 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i don't, especailly when the case is "you did something i don't understand and that's why you are mafia". Well no shit, what am i supposed to say? "no you do understand"? Is this serious? A big factor is that you refuse to try to make me understand... My points aren't that I don't understand, it's that I think you can't explain what you were thinking when you do stuff. You should have reasoning for saying and doing stuff right? | ||
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Balla24
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Balla24
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On February 23 2014 11:37 Balla24 wrote: Tell me rayn if all that is so shit: - Justfiy your townread of kush, even if its different today I want to know why you thought kush was town yesterday. - Elaborate on how I am playing toward my scum meta, or at least how I was yesterday. - Explain to me why you decided NOT to push me for a lynch instead of toad if you thought toad was so townie. If it's shit then you should easily be able to explain all of this with EASE. Moving on: ##vote kushm4sta/vivax420 Kush is obviously mafia. I said it D1 and all he's done since then is not read the thread and get himself in more trouble lol.. this is the second time he's claimed he's slipped. I'll spend this section going over the arguments against me and why they don't make me mafia, and what my thought process was during the moments. This is basically just going to be re-iterating what i've said previously to them, but consolidated and commenting on stuff that I felt was not necessary to comment on before. On February 23 2014 09:43 marvellosity wrote: if anyone wonders why I think Balla could be mafia, think Slam+suki+Palmar's signature This point is completely and totally unfair. My reasons for town-reading suki were fine and nobody has attacked it yet. I find her flip-flopping very very characteristic of town suki and this is NOT the first time I have used this logic to success when reading suki. I used it successfully in Shadowed Mafia (non-reboot), and successfully read her when she was NOT flip-flopping in the reboot. Including this one, I am 3/3 reading correctly as town, which doesn't say much because she has hasn't been mafia but still, me reading suki correctly is completely non-indicative of my alignment. Answer me this, if I was to flip, are you going to lynch Koshi next for being the only one to town read me? Because if you go down that path you are going to lose the game. I am not mafia because I was right on 1 of my reads. I was somewhat wrong on CFP wasn't I? As far as Slam goes, he hasn't even flipped so I don't know how you can hold that against me. On February 23 2014 10:17 marvellosity wrote: Exhibit 1: Balla never mentions the arguments that Palmar and I push on Toad, and only asks other people about Toad's alignment without commenting himself, until he made his megapost with Toad as mafia. Also unfair and completely circumstantial. I asked other people about Toad's alignment when I thought their reads were funky. For example, Palmar: He thought suki/prplhz/me were scummy and unvoted Kush because of it, yet he goes to Toad instead of trying to pressure the people he thought were scummy on the Kush lynch. I think that is a questionable town play, because you could try to figure out the intentions of the people pushing a kush lynch instead of just assuming they are scum. Followup point: On February 23 2014 10:41 marvellosity wrote: It's very difficult for me to believe that the most influential player in the game (you may not know me, but you can tell by how people interact with me) makes a case on someone and you totally fail to mention it in any capacity. Especially when you commented so much on so much else. I didn't comment on your arguments cause I had absolutely nothing to add. You say I comment on everything else right? Then why is not commenting on a single thing scummy? If you think I ignore stuff as scum, wouldn't this be a pattern? On February 23 2014 10:34 marvellosity wrote: And yet Balla voted the totally absent sidesprang? This isn't even a real point because you are ignoring my reasoning for voting sidesprang, whereas Palmar (who I am talking about in that quote) did not provide reasoning, hence why I am curious!!! My reason for voting sidesprang was clear: Sidesprang voted ME specifically for a reason, therefore he might have been testing my reaction, therefore I gave him one! It only occured to me afterwards that it was a pre-game plan thus had no bearing on the game. On February 23 2014 17:55 kushm4sta wrote: but oats, why would town get annoyed at someone they thought was scum? I don't know? Because rayn is being a child? Especially if he's town. Same reason I get mad when I ask people to explain townreads and they go "nah i dont know how that will help" instead of just explaining their town read. I'm trying to figure out people's alignments and they aren't helping me to do that because they are conceited. Think about it, if rayn is town then all he's doing is fueling my fire instead of trying to put it out like he should be. On February 23 2014 23:27 marvellosity wrote: As it stands suki was becoming suspicious of balla and she has played several games with him CuteFluffyPuppy found Balla's reactions to the fakeclaim thing suspicious Balla failed at any time to address the case on Toadesstern, and I don't really buy the argument "I felt nothing either way so I didn't comment on it at all" Is probably the most likely mafia person on Toadesstern if one exists Kept asking Palmar why his vote was on Toadesstern (when it was obvious that the Toad case was the strongest in the thread apart from anything else) puts obv-town marvellosity under a heading "pretty questionable" and tries to palm it off saying I'm on the townside (personal reason :D) Suki's reasoning was terrible. Genuine, but terrible. If you recall, she went from townreading me for meta and for going at rayn saying "I would never attack rayn like that as scum", to having a conversation with kush, to scumreading me. Here it is: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2014 00:30 suki wrote: kush you played with Balla in Normal Mini Mafia: Episode 1. He is much more careful in what he says, much less confident. He can't even produce content the way he has this game as scum, much less attack a player the way he did. It doesn't even have to be rayn. Scum balla just doesn't play this way. I really find it weird that you don't see this seeing as you clearly saw the difference in NM:E1 beginning of game mid-game when people were calling balla out for being scummy and kush was voting balla. You seem to be thinking Balla is suspicious at this moment. Why didn't you think Balla was scummy at the beginning of the game and call him out, when he was clearly inactive? Why are you questioning my townread of Balla when you yourself read Balla as town earlier on? Your line of thought on Balla just doesn't line up at all. On February 23 2014 00:33 VIVAX420 wrote: because degree of activity has nothing to do with alignment most of the time? i dind't see anything scummy early game. And no i wouldn't describe him as a "timid" scum. He is quite capable, it;s just that he wasn't trying that hard those scum games. and furthermore, ive since downgraded my opinion of his towngame from when I said those quotes. now does my line of thought line up? On February 23 2014 00:42 suki wrote: Obviously I'm looking at Kush being mafia, for having such a shitty read on Balla. But his responses are coherent and make sense. Taking another look at Balla's filter some things really don't add up. Calling marv questionable is a really weird thing. His case on toad also bad. His case on you bad. Bussing Toad is definitely a plausible move for scum Balla. I guess I just liked the fact that he was hard defending me :| Kush looks more townie to me right now from this exchange. Balla looks worse. I do think Oats is town so scum suspect was kush and slam. Add Balla to the list now. CFP had a similar thought process. He went from meta-reading me as super townie from IIRC filter-size alone, yet right at the end of the day he thought my reaction was scummy? Didn't even really provide reasoning for why. Just generic "falling apart" comments since I was putting him down as possible scum when I was asked to provide my reads ASAP. I'm sorry but this is NOT something you should be taking into account considering how on the fly this section of the game was at. If he had sat down and thought about it maybe he would have came up with something different. On February 23 2014 23:27 marvellosity wrote: puts obv-town marvellosity under a heading "pretty questionable" and tries to palm it off saying I'm on the townside (personal reason :D) This is arrogant (<3) and actually pretty unreasonable. You should know I respect you marv and you are very good at this game and everybody knows that. If anything, me not being sold on you being town should be townie, ESPECIALLY if you think I would use information bias to give suki a town read but NOT YOU. You're good at this game as both scum and town, so why should I give you a town read off the bat. It is also pretty clearly indicated that I think you were doing pro-town things, but there was something bothering me: Marv is generating a LOT of content and asking plenty of good questions. But he also seems content to just sit within a shit storm and let it happen/contribute to it which is scummy. He has one instance of trying to move the thread forward during one of those shit storms (during the toad debacle) in which he suggests to move forward since we aren't going to get anything more out of it, however that was way after and was actually producing useful content. I'm referencing things like his conversation with kush. How is that NOT a reasonable read? Look if you think I would town read suki using information bias over you, then this needs to be a point in my favor OR you need to switch them around and drop the "he was right about suki" thing. On February 24 2014 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i don't, especailly when the case is "you did something i don't understand and that's why you are mafia". Well no shit, what am i supposed to say? "no you do understand"? This is not my case at all and again, if you think I am misunderstanding something then you need to make it clear to me. Even if you are sure someone is mafia (which you shouldn't be, btw, I really don't understand how you of all people could be so confident i'm mafia since you've played with me before) you need to respond to them like you would to a townie in the possibility that they ARE town, because their interactions with you DEPEND on it. Listen rayn, if we switched positions and I wasn't explaining anything that you think I'm mafia for, would you think I was mafia? Yes, obviously, I've seen this situation with you as town and someone else happen before. Actually, I think it was kush in normal mini when "he has a huge pile of un-explained townreads" that I already quoted in another post. So it's a real shock that you think my scum read of you is unreasonable. On February 24 2014 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: He is being right for very wrong reasons and he makes cases that are not about why someone is mafia, and when he's been questioned about them instead of answering he makes new cases. I already explained how my reasons are NOT WRONG. Why you are mafia follows from my points, and furthermore, if you have bad explanations for those points then it makes you mafia (which you havent given ANY explanation). When I'm being questioned (by you) you mis-represent my case A LOT. I never make new cases, maybe I explain my point in a different way, or use NEW EVIDENCE to support my POINT/CASE but that is NOT making a new case and you are very wrong about this. This conversation is what rayn is referring to for anyone wondering: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=443848¤tpage=69#1365 On February 24 2014 08:02 marvellosity wrote: What actually bugs me is not the fact that he put me as questionable then (although that bugs me) - it's that later on when I'd posted a TON more (and decent posting) he still wasn't willing to call me town. That's at the very least terrible, weak play if balla is town (sorry balla if you're town, but it just is) Further if Balla is mafia then Slam is his likely partner, not kush. Because what Balla did is have his cases on kush and Toad but he had his vote on kush and not Toad. This is a classic mafia play, having 2 scum suspects and having your vote on the townie and looking good later for having scum as scum. Balla only put his vote on Toadesstern later when the lynch was a formality. I'm willing to vote kush though, if kush flips town then Balla is an autolynch. Or we can lynch Slam who probably has the highest individual chance of flipping mafia. I don't care all that much honestly. Uhm... i'm actually confused here on the first point... if you could reference that that'd be great, because i'm pretty sure after my large post where i called you questionable, you and a few others were like HOLY SHIT BALLA THATS SO BAD MARV CANT POSSIBLY MAKE FILTER THIS BIG and it pissed me off and i was like ok he's town, after that when was I hesitant to call you town? #2 I can't comment on unless you have a specific question because it's just straight up speculation on not yet flipped players. #3 is unfair and isn't alignment indicative because townies do that all the time. I clearly specified my intention to lynch either of them. This is WIFOM and i've been trying to avoid using WIFOM because it's fucking annoying BUT I think it is very very relevant. If I was scum, wouldn't I have purposefully TRIED to put my vote in BEFORE it was a formality? | ||
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Balla24
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TLDR: If you think I'm scum then you need to read this. If not then you may ignore. If you are a little bitch and are still sheeping marv then you should be lynching kush anyways and can ignore because you're a sheep. If you are rayn, you can ignore because you don't read anything I post. If you are marv then you better love this even though you will probably ignore it like you did when I tried to explain everything the first time (balla is bitter as fuck). | ||
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Balla24
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On February 24 2014 16:07 Oatsmaster wrote: so defensive Oh oats I forgot you were in a decent timezone to talk to me, why are you lurking so much at night when you're not even confident i'm scum (you just voted me "before marv throws a fit")? You could be pressuring me, asking me questions etc... | ||
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Balla24
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On February 24 2014 16:07 Oatsmaster wrote: so defensive Also lol... you noticed that was there and read that in 2 minutes? That's pretty impressive. Anyways, unfortunately i'm going to sleep. Peace~ | ||
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Balla24
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On February 22 2014 20:19 VIVAX420 wrote: who is calling for a vig on cute smurf and why On February 22 2014 23:22 VIVAX420 wrote: yea but i have until d2 as long as im not viged | ||
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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If kush is town then the last scums have to be within oats/rayn/slam so let's do it~ ##vote Alakaslam | ||
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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Balla24
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On February 25 2014 05:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) I don't believe he ACTUALLY believed the read on suki/me (like I said I don't know his relationship with marv), therefore the only reason he would do this is to shit up the thread and cause chaos. : Well then you don't believe it, wtf am i supposed to say? Yes i did believe suki is mafia, yes i did believe you are mafia. I explained why i thought so. 2) I find his town read of kush here (which I had to ask him 3 times for) completely baseless and still baseless considering kush had done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to that point. I explained my townread on kush. It was because i didn't think he would say he would quit mafia if Toad is town in case Toad was actually town which i also did believe. You don't buy it? Well shit, then there is nothing i can say. 3) He says i'm playing towards my scum meta yet never never ever elaborates on that. Come on now rayn, if you really thought this way you would have pushed really fucking hard for lynch. Yes you are, i explained how. Only after i did so you started doing things like you do as town - not defending me for no reason, posting more, etc. And no i wouldn't. I would not because when marv is pushing a lynch there is nothing you can do about it. Also i did not give a shit. So, i have actually explained everything you ask me to explain. If you don't think my explanations are good enough that's another thing and there is nothing i can do about it. So how about you cut the fucking bullshit and stop the "you need to explain this and that"? See rayn that's all you had to do like seriously. Now I know that you think you did exactly all that stuff and I can check it. When you just generically say "I explained everything!!!" what am I supposed to do? When I look I didn't find anything that's why I bring it up in the first place. The only thing you could have done better in that post is quote exactly where you explained each of these things. 1) Fair enough, now why is it not reasonable for me to think that because I don't think you should have these reads on suki and I that you are mafia? I could be wrong, but it's totally reasonable for me to have this opinion about you. 2) I finally see the post because you specifically said it exists! 3) Looking through your filter I still don't see where you explained my meta and how I am playing towards it and when I started changing it etc. This would be your opportunity to quote exactly where. If it's just where you quote your case from NMM1 then I guess I think that its just unreasonable for you to think I was playing towards my scum meta at that point since it was very very early AND I had played 2 new town games that you don't take into account. See how a perception of someone can change based on how they interact. Your stubbornness blew up my scum read of you which lead to your scum read of me, when all you had to do was put a little effort into it to dispell my points against you if you really thought it was that bad. | ||
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Balla24
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On February 25 2014 05:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: And only after suki kill you start going "look how wrong rayn was on suki".- Well fucking everyone thought she was mafia, other than you. I think that's a bullshit reason to call me mafia (being wrong) and you are using something that is not scummy to attack me. In fact you are fucking scummy because of it as i don't see how you could possibly think suki is town. You brought up shit like "i can see the reasoning behind her reads, you are bad because you can't". Well the reasons were not what you thought, and they were bad. So you had no intention to figure out her actual reasoning, you just said right things. Things you can't possibly know they are right if you are town. So you are either mafia or playing really bad because you assume things you should not assume in the first place. You are not trying to figure out things, you just assume something and say stuff based on that. And it makes sense from mafia pov if you switch the word "assume" with "know". Sorry rayn but that's not what I said about suki and again you are misinterpreting misreading or something here because it's not at all what I was saying. You were bringing up the fact that suki is jumping from case to case to case, and saying she has no reasoning for SWITCHING like that. I was saying, jumping from case to case to case is suki's town meta. You countered by saying she doesn't have any conviction with her cases though and has no reasoning for switching, which I THEN countered by saying she DOES has reasoning and its pretty clear with the context on why she is switching. I said its unreasonable for you NOT to think the same way as me because you played with me and her in NMM1 which is where she started that. But seriously, thank you for actually having a discourse with me, it is much more pleasurable then our dumb arguments before. I don't know what's so wrong about that. On February 25 2014 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: You actually did the same thing with me on D1. You assume you know what my reasoning behind something is, and defend me for it. When i call you out on that (because that's what you do as mafia), you start attacking me. Fishy fucking much? Look dude, what do you want me to do? You dropped a vote on marv completely unexplained, I tried to understand what you were doing and I posted it in the thread, I wasn't defending you whatsoever. I thought I saw what you were doing and it turned out it wasnt that at all, so when you start going ham off of it then it shoots off red bells for me because I didn't expect you to do that whatsoever. | ||
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