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[S] Shadowed Mini Mafia: The Reboot - Page 26

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
February 07 2014 18:12 GMT
#501
because he's not randomly jumping around, there is a trigger, there is a process involved in moving from one person to another to pressure them and he follows through long enough to get a response without getting stuck in a tunnel. He doesn't worry about needing to drop his read, and yeah he's kind of called a lot of people scum so there are lots of options but its bring information to town and presenting new viewpoints without bringing in clutter or being a distraction.
Balla24
Profile Joined December 2011
2322 Posts
February 07 2014 18:17 GMT
#502
On February 08 2014 03:12 Hopeless1der wrote:
because he's not randomly jumping around, there is a trigger, there is a process involved in moving from one person to another to pressure them and he follows through long enough to get a response without getting stuck in a tunnel. He doesn't worry about needing to drop his read, and yeah he's kind of called a lot of people scum so there are lots of options but its bring information to town and presenting new viewpoints without bringing in clutter or being a distraction.


Interesting. Not what I was thinking you were thinking ^_^.

I was getting at the fact that Oats was doing this last game, albeit here it is a LOT more faster paced and rapid fire, which we can attribute to the game being much faster paced. IIRC, he jumped from Koshi -> you -> cake. So there are similarities already to his town game.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
February 07 2014 18:28 GMT
#503
Thats basically the same thing I said balla..I just didnt say it was his normal town play. Instead I explained why his play was townie to me.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 07 2014 18:29 GMT
#504
Jay's play in previous games:

+ Show Spoiler +

Scum in Roulette Mini Mafia
On June 04 2013 09:13 jaybrundage wrote:
So im down with the whole claim role thing. But if the scum can also get the roles it doesnt really lead us to any lynches.
But i guess the point of it would be transparency and all that jazz.

I hate playing with people i never played with before I cant rely on previous experiences Also if anyone has not played with me I would suggest reading a previous game or two I play rather..... unorthodox (I occasionally be hardcore lynchbait D:)

Kinda all over the place but I always feel like day 1 is just typing shit until someone says something questionable. Then the Rage-arguments take place :D



self-consciousness.

On June 05 2013 05:55 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 02:25 s0Lstice wrote:
Stutters, can you answer your own question? You are voting him (Oats) currently so I assume that you have some reason to think he is more likely to be scum than just a townie not particularly giving a shit.

My thinking is I have no idea on his alignment just yet. Generally though being totally careless of the threads opinion of you is a townie trait, so he has that going for now.

I gotta say I agree with layabout on jaybrundage. His entry into the thread was filled with trepidation

On June 04 2013 09:13 jaybrundage wrote:
So im down with the whole claim role thing. But if the scum can also get the roles it doesnt really lead us to any lynches.
But i guess the point of it would be transparency and all that jazz.

I hate playing with people i never played with before I cant rely on previous experiences Also if anyone has not played with me I would suggest reading a previous game or two I play rather..... unorthodox (I occasionally be hardcore lynchbait D

Kinda all over the place but I always feel like day 1 is just typing shit until someone says something questionable. Then the Rage-arguments take place :D



It looks to me like he is trying to defuse pressure on him before it even happens. 'I can't rely on previous experiences' is a prepackaged excuse to go light on scum hunting. 'I am occasionally lynch bate' is a prepackaged excuse for looking suspicious. It looks extremely self conscious. This point by layabout too is relevent.

On June 04 2013 09:29 layabout wrote:
On June 04 2013 09:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
On June 04 2013 09:19 layabout wrote:
On June 04 2013 09:14 jaybrundage wrote:
On June 04 2013 08:28 VayneAuthority wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
im all in on 31, spin the wheel m'boy.

I have drank heavily on the past night so I am taking a nap this day. Wake me up when the sun sets.

I have been drinking so i will not post for a while

+ Show Spoiler +
*pokes with stick*

pointless pressure



I'm just trollin' around with the theme, I didn't actually drink today nor yesterday. What is your concern jaybrundage?

If you say that you arent going to post, pressuring you for a contribution serves no purpose for a townie


Meaningless pressure. It's a way of looking useful without actually being useful (shit-flinging at somebody who isn't going to be around to take umbrage). This is the direction I want to go. He looks the scummiest of anybody so far.

##vote jaybrundage



Maybe you missed the post where i said to go look at previous games. I said that im often lynch bait because its true. As town i often get mislynched. I prefer for people to know this and take at look at my play rather then straight up die as town for my play.

Me poking someone with a stick is not pressure. The fact that you have that in your case shows how weak it is. Besides the fact that your just piggy backing of someone elses post.

The fact that you think a joke post is the scummiest post as of yet just shows your lack of a real case.

#Vote S0lstice


self-consciousness.

On June 05 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 10:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
On June 05 2013 10:55 Stutters695 wrote:
Well I don't have the time to do detailed analysis of everyone I want to look into right now but let's bounce some suspects.

First for me is Fuba. Check out his long post his only suspect has been Vayne and with his answer he takes some time to defend himself and waffles on Vayne. Very noncommittal, doesn't really pressure and has been mia. I haven't played with Fuba in ages but I remember him being much more active. Do you think he's strapped for time and town or a scummer getting by due to the relative inactivity.


I am waiting to see more from him but he's definitely on my radar, I am reading the thread just don't have much to contribute right now. These metagames and pointless accusations this early bore me.

Well how would you start day 1. I stuggle day one because there is no content to go off of. And the whole purpose is to create content.



excuses.

Scum in British Empire Mini Mafia II
On March 05 2013 19:31 jaybrundage wrote:
Meh, don't like that we already have an outed blue already. But whatever, no reason crying over spilled claims. Not sure what I think about the early votes. Its prolly people fooling around OR SCUM TRYING TO GET AN EASY LYNCH o.o
Buuuuut prolly za jokes.

Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 10:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On March 05 2013 10:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
And the problem with claiming that is what? HoP has no powers, mafia has no increased incentive to hit me that they wouldn't normally have. We can strike setup A off the list of possible setups.

You can't throw 3 joke votes down in a game like this. With a scumteam of 2, they can swoop in and force an instant mislynch. In the ensuing chaos it wouldn't be terribly difficult to swing suspicion onto one of the initial voters. However, I don't think any serious townie wouldn't have realized that. At least 1 scum I would imagine has already voted me.

##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake


You really think scum would hammer a random vote like that? That's recipe for getting owned the next day.


Also scum Yamato did this last game. And he got away with it D:

Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 16:32 Vivax wrote:
It's abut 8:30 AM here and I'm about to move out. I support a jay lynch for the time being until I see something that convinces me otherwise.

##Vote jaybrundage

Best mislynch NA

YOU KNOW THIS AND STILL VOTE ME QQ



joking attitude with mislynch comment.

On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote:
I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means.

But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse.


Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless.



On March 06 2013 11:25 jaybrundage wrote:
I wasn't confident in my reads. I wanted to act like i was to try to put more pressure on them (dandel, vivax)
Never have been big on questioning my scum reads tbh. Thats more your forte. My reckoning is if someone is scum they wont give any satisfactory answers anyway. But ill try it out.

As for going with the flow. Your right. I prefer to go with people's reads I have a town read on. I have done this to death palmar and even you at points in games. I hate day 1 for a reason. There is no concrete information to go on.

Show nested quote +
On March 06 2013 11:09 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Could you respond to the two other things I posted? (Going with the flow + Not questioning your scumreads)

I'm also a bit skeptical about how "convinced" you've seemed about your reads on Vivax/Dandel at times this game. You've openly admitted to hating Day 1 play, and you seemed very comfortable with these reads, which is pretty contradictory.

On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote:
I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means.

But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse.

Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless.


I'd rather see you pursue your own ideas rather than acknowledge all of mine as 100% true.



self-consciousness.

Town in Nomination Mafia
On February 08 2013 13:52 jaybrundage wrote:
In regards to the bold isnt that what everyone does?

In all seriousness there isn't much to say about JX. JX was lurking hard and didn't contribute anything till some pressure was on him and even then he didn't produce much. I was having second thoughts about him per palmars post but no one wanted to lynch prplhz.

I dont care if i bring your comments on Oats back to the limelight. If I think something you did was questionable I will call it out. You stated something I didn't agree with so I said as much.

And are you fucking kidding me with this consolidation bit. Ofc we have to consolidate as town. If we don't it gives mafia more leeway to swing the vote. Also you your self were asking people to consolidate on JX so how is what you say even make sense.


Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 13:29 Mocsta wrote:
I have had a re-read of Vers guide, and starting to look for specific things in play.

Jay, you are pinging the shit out of my scum-dar.
In a nutshell your filter contains
- No useful contributions, other than you following a curiosity on RNG (which was never taking off)
- You were a proponent of bringing back into the limelight my comments to Oats, when i already gave my 2cents.
- You admit to having no contributions to add to town (as your explanation on the lack of posts)
- You was the first people to lead the JX lynch; before anything was concrete
And to top it off
- Your last post reads as if you dont give a shit a townie just flipped. You instantly move on, thinking about scum nominations already. Its like you fucked him in a one night stand and then kicked him out and didnt even call a taxi.

Even when prplhz is questioning you; you respond meekly, I believe with the intention to be ignored.
It worked.
Whilst this occured you were subtly asking everyone to consolidate on JX; but never contributed with serious thought on why he was the best candidate. This reeks to manipulation and scum play.
Scummy townies often say things that are so stupid/wrong its easy to think they are trying to mislead as town.
Your filter shows no signs of unintentional misleading, rather, when pressuring Jay you are EXTREMELY specific.

Thus, for me, I see intentional play to drive your agenda:
i.e.push JX as lynch candidate and remain low by making calculated decisions to show interest and responding methodically to blend in.

@all
Please share your thoughts on the above; do you see JayBrundage play as a bad townie?



Also why do you ask if im a bad townie. Why not just ask if people think I'm scum?


Notice how he doesn't really defend himself, he just shoots back a question.
On February 08 2013 14:35 jaybrundage wrote:
I fail to see anything in your response that indicates im scum.

The mislynch occurred cause JX was lurking hard till pressure was applied to him. And he didn't respond in a townie way. I once heard a good town player say. That for the day one lynch the only thing you need to do as town is to make sure you aren't the jackass that gets lynched. You usually have to play badly for it to happen.

Also yes I prefered JX to die over Palmar wasn't that clear. Your issue with consolidation isn't a real issue. It was the end of the day and I asked people to consolidate.


Again, he doesn't excuse his play he re-iterates his reasoning.

On February 08 2013 23:46 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:
hmm. to be frank
i havent made up my mind with you, im trying to read your town games to see why you said your a scummy-town.

I just wanted feedback on my points.

To give you some quick context. I am the best mislynch na. I used to get lynched about 90 percent of my games, though I have improved a bit cause people were getting used to my meta aka being scummy as fuck as town.

I usually lurk hard as scum and get spammy as town. But this game I don't wanna get overly spammy as it makes me look scummy lol.

Questions?

He is best mislynch NA. But it's not in the joking manner as before. His tone is more serious.

Town in Normal Mini Mafia IV
On January 30 2013 09:16 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 09:08 EmileZola wrote:
actually yeah why am I still talking about this shit

##vote jaybrundage

This is your pressure vote are you fucking srs? Or do you actually think im scum


Questions when he's pressure voted rather than defensive or instant counter attack.
On January 30 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 09:53 EmileZola wrote:
which is why I accused jay of not reading the thread.

In fact, I consider him scum for the manner in which he switched away from Sharrant. He seemed to switch away from Sharrant when it was apparent Sharrant would gain traction.

Distancing is a scum tactic. He prefers JX over Sharrant and never qualifies the preference any more than "JX has done worse". Not good enough. Either qualify it with tangible evidence, or die.

What the hell are you talking about. God forbid I have more then one scum read. Sharrant and JX are both scummy. Yes JX voted thrawn early but it doesn't make all his scummy actions irrelevant. Also Iamp also had JX as a scummy read. I have Lamp as a town read and i give his opinion some weight in my decisions. That is primarily why I started rereading filters and such to see if i could see what he said about Sharrant and JX.


Note the confident attitude.

Town (Fake doctor? XD) in our previous Shadowed Mini Mafia
On February 04 2014 12:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2014 12:10 suki wrote:
I think you don't really care about the answers, you just want to look like you're contributing.

How about you answer a few of the questions you posed yourself?

Oh I answered all those questions in my Google spreadsheet already. I ll post what I got on you guys so far. Its not all up to date on the recent things that happened.


1. Balla24 Town I like him so far very aggressive and making discussion and seems like a real player in this game
2. Sidesprang Bleh One post so far I knew he would be a candidate for a policy lynch and hes confirming that.

3. Alakaslam Posted 2 things with no content so far

4. cakemanofdoom no content There is quite a bit of things in the game atm and he chooses to comment on suki saying thats nice. Pretty lackluster choice

5. LoneMeow slightly scummy His first post sucked I don't like it at all and might be down to vote him just based on that. He followed up with basic policy stuff. I dont like him so far

6. Jaybrundage The towniest town that ever towned

7. Hopeless1der Meh we argued a bit over nothing hasn't posted any content tho so much is going on in the thread where did he go?

8. Oatsmaster Hasn't posted yet. I think at the start of the game is pretty late for him tho

9. JonnyLaw Pretty waffly at the start. He is posting but he doesn't seem to have firm convictions. He didn't liike Balla early but he has played with baller 3-2 times with him being scum so his suspicion is warrented. He hasn't produced much content tho he just seems like going with the flow

10. Suki scummy I don't like suki so far she just seems like she has no real motivation behind her posting. Her poke at jonnys waffleing was ok but then when balla inquired about it she said she never said she implied hes scum or anything LIke wtf? Why poke at someone but have no real reason behind it. It would seem that she didn't understand him but then she didn't say that she got very defensive. Said she didn't see anything with LM posting slight defending I dont like her atm

11. Koshi Posted some generic lets post alot then disappeared


No waffling here, no excuses on 'I can't get reads easy in D1'
On February 05 2014 02:15 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2014 02:10 Alakaslam wrote:
On February 04 2014 15:28 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 04 2014 15:20 Alakaslam wrote:
Last post by Jay Brundage makes sense I'm done fighting this thing, i'll be back when I can charge it or have a PC

Please don't post on your phone again if its gonna be this nonsensical. Take the time to correct it on your phone and reread what your typing or just go to a computer


I understand this sentiment but I think you actually did understand my posts in a sense.

I was UNABLE to edit them. That is what was so bad, I could barely get it to register a tap in the words and had to use talk text. That is why I stopped.

Anything that didn't make sense I will try to clarify after I catch up and probably after work. it is still morning.

jaybrundage you are rapidly convincing me you are scum.


I understood them in the sense that you think im scummy and don't like some of my posts. However why you thought they were scummy is a mystery to me. I would love to hear your thinking.

I still adhere to the fact that if you can't see someone's username and see who is posting what. That your reads are going to be terrible. I hope you can read the game knowing who is posting what.


Confidence. No heavy defense, no excuses.

On February 05 2014 12:13 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2014 12:03 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:49 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:23 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:17 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:10 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:05 Balla24 wrote:
I'd lynch LoneMeow.



That's fine.

I want to talk about Jay. He's actually here. Both times I question him about something he comes in with a town-like response to the questions. Jay refuses to do that until there's pressure on him though. How is this town behavior?

I find this funny. Should I come up with a scum like response? Also you do realize that I was making that case before you posted your "pressure" on me.


I'm trying to talk to you Jay. You called Suki scum twice then change your mind once she posts a case on Oats.

What do you think about Oats? You claim to like the case but don't say anything else. I want to know why. You've played with Oats before this game.

We can chat about Lonemeow after this if you'd like. For now, I'm curious about some of your opinions.


Yes I thought suki was scummy before. Her thing about not calling Jonny scum but interesting or what ever word she used did bother me. She just seemed to have no point to your posts. However with her case on Oats it showed that she wasn't just trying to appear to be posting. She actually was analyzing the game and looking for scum. So my read turned on her. Is it possible she's scum that noticed she was getting heat and decided to post a case? Sure possible. But I think the most likely possibility at this point is town.

I don't remember Oats too well in my previous games. He was never someone I really suspected. He can be hard to draw a bead on sometimes. Not a huge poster mostly short clip comments. I even had to go back and look briefly at the LoL PYP game. I think the case made good points I hadn't noticed before. Oats was not on my lynch list before Suki posted her case. And she made a good enough case for me to consider lynching him.

Also I felt the reason to make my own case because I want to contribute to the town. I didn't plan to just sheep Suki's read and just say yea I like all this Ill join. Because I wanted to post my own analysis I got's me an ego you know. Also by posting other scummy people we can choose as a town who we want to go for based on the information we have.



You don't need to sheep Suki. Post your opinion. "I like this part and I don't like this part." You're trying to tell people how to play and what to look for and then you have that post. You flip on Suki and at the same time aren't trying to convince people how to play the game anymore.


##vote Jaybrundage

I have no need to defend oats. Oats can do that himself. I liked the case in general. Why should I nitpick when I have no need too. Can I not agree with a case? I liked the case. Its that simple. I agree with the case. I dont see how you don't get it. Yes I changed my read on suki. I'm trying to figure out the game. She made a good case so more likely to be town.


More confidence.



Jay's play this game:

+ Show Spoiler +

On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:
On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?


Legitimate question.

Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game?

It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town.
I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game.

1. Because I said it last game.

2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D

I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day.


excuses.

On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 07:47 Koshi wrote:
Mine is very real. Super real.

you feel off.

I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that.

I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it.

Koshi is scum. I caught one :D


Immediate counter attack. Something tells me town Jay would be more likely to say "Can you explain why I feel off?" and prod with questions. In other words, his townie confidence is missing.

On February 07 2014 08:55 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 08:49 suki wrote:
##unvote King Balla
##vote Jaybrundage


What the hell are you seriously posting a super-serious-scum-hunt long ass post with quotes and reasoning two hours into the game? Take a CHILL PILL man.

Holy shit. Why the hell are you in such a rush to find scum out of the first four people who have entered the thread. This attitude is completely different from last game and I don't mean that in a good way.

Suki. Being aggressive does not =! equal scum. I am scum hunting. Why are you voting me. Instead of reading up on my case and seeing if it has merit. You asked me how I was going to change my approach this game. I said it was going to try to do more pressuring and scum hunting. I am doing that.

Should I not want to lynch scum this game. Your question doesn't make sense. It is not that they are in the first four people in the game that I have targeted them. I have targeted balla and Koshi because I find them the most likely to be scum. I think Jonny on the other hand is hella townie atm.


Self consciousness. Defensive, trying to provide reasons for the way he is playing.

On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote:
I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough.

If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons.

Pretty frustrating.


This is new. I don't think I've seen frustration in his previous games so I don't have a meta read on what this means. The thing that comes to mind is if he was confident townie he probably wouldn't care that people are calling him scummy and would question them right back in their faces.

On February 07 2014 11:52 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 11:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
n1 mislynch NA jay?

Numba 1 Mislynch NA xD


Joking tone that's present in his scum games when he mentions he's #1 mislynch.

On February 07 2014 11:54 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 11:51 Balla24 wrote:
Are you guys seriously pushing jay right now?

There's really nothing new. Everybody knows he's made some scummy decisions. He's been pressured to no end, no reason to keep pushing him now because we know almost everything about him. Let him play the game, watch him to see if he redeems himself, but there's no reason to keep pushing him unless there is NEW information.

Let him play unpressed, see what happens.

Balla talk to me why do you think my push on Koshi is scummy. I think while it isn't the most amazing case. It is after all an early day 1 case. And I think alot of things I said are completely true.


Self-conscious. This sort of thing doesn't show up in his town games.

+ Show Spoiler +

just look at this quote from the previous game:
On February 05 2014 11:49 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2014 11:23 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:17 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:10 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:05 Balla24 wrote:
I'd lynch LoneMeow.



That's fine.

I want to talk about Jay. He's actually here. Both times I question him about something he comes in with a town-like response to the questions. Jay refuses to do that until there's pressure on him though. How is this town behavior?

I find this funny. Should I come up with a scum like response? Also you do realize that I was making that case before you posted your "pressure" on me.


I'm trying to talk to you Jay. You called Suki scum twice then change your mind once she posts a case on Oats.

What do you think about Oats? You claim to like the case but don't say anything else. I want to know why. You've played with Oats before this game.

We can chat about Lonemeow after this if you'd like. For now, I'm curious about some of your opinions.


Yes I thought suki was scummy before. Her thing about not calling Jonny scum but interesting or what ever word she used did bother me. She just seemed to have no point to your posts. However with her case on Oats it showed that she wasn't just trying to appear to be posting. She actually was analyzing the game and looking for scum. So my read turned on her. Is it possible she's scum that noticed she was getting heat and decided to post a case? Sure possible. But I think the most likely possibility at this point is town.

I don't remember Oats too well in my previous games. He was never someone I really suspected. He can be hard to draw a bead on sometimes. Not a huge poster mostly short clip comments. I even had to go back and look briefly at the LoL PYP game. I think the case made good points I hadn't noticed before. Oats was not on my lynch list before Suki posted her case. And she made a good enough case for me to consider lynching him.

Also I felt the reason to make my own case because I want to contribute to the town. I didn't plan to just sheep Suki's read and just say yea I like all this Ill join. Because I wanted to post my own analysis I got's me an ego you know. Also by posting other scummy people we can choose as a town who we want to go for based on the information we have.


Notice how his reasons for finding me scummy were weak, however he doesn't say 'Oh yeah my reasons for thinking suki was scummy weren't that great.' he simply states what he thought. Ie. Confidence.



On February 07 2014 13:50 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 13:13 Balla24 wrote:
Ah yes! Finally.

Does what I said make sense to you from a town perspective now?


Why does he care that other people think he's town? Again, self-conscious, lack of confidence.
On February 08 2014 02:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2014 02:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
okay jay, so most of yesterday was 'heat of the moment'. have you re-read or reconsidered your scumreads?

Yea Balla is leaning town for me atm. I still think Koshi could be scum but everyone shitting on my push on him, means that the push wasn't not as good as I thought it was. So I won't be pushing him now and will try to get reads on other people.

excuses.



Huh. I think I've just convinced myself Jay is pretty damn scummy.

Also I noticed how in the town examples above, Jay has no problem asking people why they think he's scum, or confirming that they their read on him is that he's scum. In this game he'd rather defend himself than confirm someone's scum read or call them out on it.

LoneMeow
Profile Joined June 2013
Finland1396 Posts
February 07 2014 18:30 GMT
#505
Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.

So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies.
One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.

Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
February 07 2014 18:33 GMT
#506
gives us a shout when your caught up please LM, otherwise keep reading. If you don't even see this post until then, all the better.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 07 2014 18:37 GMT
#507
That was a lot of work and I want to take a break. I'll post some meta quotes on sidesprang later.
Balla24
Profile Joined December 2011
2322 Posts
February 07 2014 18:38 GMT
#508
On February 08 2014 03:29 suki wrote:
Jay's play in previous games:

+ Show Spoiler +

Scum in Roulette Mini Mafia
On June 04 2013 09:13 jaybrundage wrote:
So im down with the whole claim role thing. But if the scum can also get the roles it doesnt really lead us to any lynches.
But i guess the point of it would be transparency and all that jazz.

I hate playing with people i never played with before I cant rely on previous experiences Also if anyone has not played with me I would suggest reading a previous game or two I play rather..... unorthodox (I occasionally be hardcore lynchbait D:)

Kinda all over the place but I always feel like day 1 is just typing shit until someone says something questionable. Then the Rage-arguments take place :D



self-consciousness.

On June 05 2013 05:55 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 02:25 s0Lstice wrote:
Stutters, can you answer your own question? You are voting him (Oats) currently so I assume that you have some reason to think he is more likely to be scum than just a townie not particularly giving a shit.

My thinking is I have no idea on his alignment just yet. Generally though being totally careless of the threads opinion of you is a townie trait, so he has that going for now.

I gotta say I agree with layabout on jaybrundage. His entry into the thread was filled with trepidation

On June 04 2013 09:13 jaybrundage wrote:
So im down with the whole claim role thing. But if the scum can also get the roles it doesnt really lead us to any lynches.
But i guess the point of it would be transparency and all that jazz.

I hate playing with people i never played with before I cant rely on previous experiences Also if anyone has not played with me I would suggest reading a previous game or two I play rather..... unorthodox (I occasionally be hardcore lynchbait D

Kinda all over the place but I always feel like day 1 is just typing shit until someone says something questionable. Then the Rage-arguments take place :D



It looks to me like he is trying to defuse pressure on him before it even happens. 'I can't rely on previous experiences' is a prepackaged excuse to go light on scum hunting. 'I am occasionally lynch bate' is a prepackaged excuse for looking suspicious. It looks extremely self conscious. This point by layabout too is relevent.

On June 04 2013 09:29 layabout wrote:
On June 04 2013 09:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
On June 04 2013 09:19 layabout wrote:
On June 04 2013 09:14 jaybrundage wrote:
On June 04 2013 08:28 VayneAuthority wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
im all in on 31, spin the wheel m'boy.

I have drank heavily on the past night so I am taking a nap this day. Wake me up when the sun sets.

I have been drinking so i will not post for a while

+ Show Spoiler +
*pokes with stick*

pointless pressure



I'm just trollin' around with the theme, I didn't actually drink today nor yesterday. What is your concern jaybrundage?

If you say that you arent going to post, pressuring you for a contribution serves no purpose for a townie


Meaningless pressure. It's a way of looking useful without actually being useful (shit-flinging at somebody who isn't going to be around to take umbrage). This is the direction I want to go. He looks the scummiest of anybody so far.

##vote jaybrundage



Maybe you missed the post where i said to go look at previous games. I said that im often lynch bait because its true. As town i often get mislynched. I prefer for people to know this and take at look at my play rather then straight up die as town for my play.

Me poking someone with a stick is not pressure. The fact that you have that in your case shows how weak it is. Besides the fact that your just piggy backing of someone elses post.

The fact that you think a joke post is the scummiest post as of yet just shows your lack of a real case.

#Vote S0lstice


self-consciousness.

On June 05 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 10:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
On June 05 2013 10:55 Stutters695 wrote:
Well I don't have the time to do detailed analysis of everyone I want to look into right now but let's bounce some suspects.

First for me is Fuba. Check out his long post his only suspect has been Vayne and with his answer he takes some time to defend himself and waffles on Vayne. Very noncommittal, doesn't really pressure and has been mia. I haven't played with Fuba in ages but I remember him being much more active. Do you think he's strapped for time and town or a scummer getting by due to the relative inactivity.


I am waiting to see more from him but he's definitely on my radar, I am reading the thread just don't have much to contribute right now. These metagames and pointless accusations this early bore me.

Well how would you start day 1. I stuggle day one because there is no content to go off of. And the whole purpose is to create content.



excuses.

Scum in British Empire Mini Mafia II
On March 05 2013 19:31 jaybrundage wrote:
Meh, don't like that we already have an outed blue already. But whatever, no reason crying over spilled claims. Not sure what I think about the early votes. Its prolly people fooling around OR SCUM TRYING TO GET AN EASY LYNCH o.o
Buuuuut prolly za jokes.

Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 10:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On March 05 2013 10:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
And the problem with claiming that is what? HoP has no powers, mafia has no increased incentive to hit me that they wouldn't normally have. We can strike setup A off the list of possible setups.

You can't throw 3 joke votes down in a game like this. With a scumteam of 2, they can swoop in and force an instant mislynch. In the ensuing chaos it wouldn't be terribly difficult to swing suspicion onto one of the initial voters. However, I don't think any serious townie wouldn't have realized that. At least 1 scum I would imagine has already voted me.

##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake


You really think scum would hammer a random vote like that? That's recipe for getting owned the next day.


Also scum Yamato did this last game. And he got away with it D:

Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 16:32 Vivax wrote:
It's abut 8:30 AM here and I'm about to move out. I support a jay lynch for the time being until I see something that convinces me otherwise.

##Vote jaybrundage

Best mislynch NA

YOU KNOW THIS AND STILL VOTE ME QQ



joking attitude with mislynch comment.

On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote:
I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means.

But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse.


Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless.



On March 06 2013 11:25 jaybrundage wrote:
I wasn't confident in my reads. I wanted to act like i was to try to put more pressure on them (dandel, vivax)
Never have been big on questioning my scum reads tbh. Thats more your forte. My reckoning is if someone is scum they wont give any satisfactory answers anyway. But ill try it out.

As for going with the flow. Your right. I prefer to go with people's reads I have a town read on. I have done this to death palmar and even you at points in games. I hate day 1 for a reason. There is no concrete information to go on.

Show nested quote +
On March 06 2013 11:09 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Could you respond to the two other things I posted? (Going with the flow + Not questioning your scumreads)

I'm also a bit skeptical about how "convinced" you've seemed about your reads on Vivax/Dandel at times this game. You've openly admitted to hating Day 1 play, and you seemed very comfortable with these reads, which is pretty contradictory.

On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote:
I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means.

But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse.

Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless.


I'd rather see you pursue your own ideas rather than acknowledge all of mine as 100% true.



self-consciousness.

Town in Nomination Mafia
On February 08 2013 13:52 jaybrundage wrote:
In regards to the bold isnt that what everyone does?

In all seriousness there isn't much to say about JX. JX was lurking hard and didn't contribute anything till some pressure was on him and even then he didn't produce much. I was having second thoughts about him per palmars post but no one wanted to lynch prplhz.

I dont care if i bring your comments on Oats back to the limelight. If I think something you did was questionable I will call it out. You stated something I didn't agree with so I said as much.

And are you fucking kidding me with this consolidation bit. Ofc we have to consolidate as town. If we don't it gives mafia more leeway to swing the vote. Also you your self were asking people to consolidate on JX so how is what you say even make sense.


Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 13:29 Mocsta wrote:
I have had a re-read of Vers guide, and starting to look for specific things in play.

Jay, you are pinging the shit out of my scum-dar.
In a nutshell your filter contains
- No useful contributions, other than you following a curiosity on RNG (which was never taking off)
- You were a proponent of bringing back into the limelight my comments to Oats, when i already gave my 2cents.
- You admit to having no contributions to add to town (as your explanation on the lack of posts)
- You was the first people to lead the JX lynch; before anything was concrete
And to top it off
- Your last post reads as if you dont give a shit a townie just flipped. You instantly move on, thinking about scum nominations already. Its like you fucked him in a one night stand and then kicked him out and didnt even call a taxi.

Even when prplhz is questioning you; you respond meekly, I believe with the intention to be ignored.
It worked.
Whilst this occured you were subtly asking everyone to consolidate on JX; but never contributed with serious thought on why he was the best candidate. This reeks to manipulation and scum play.
Scummy townies often say things that are so stupid/wrong its easy to think they are trying to mislead as town.
Your filter shows no signs of unintentional misleading, rather, when pressuring Jay you are EXTREMELY specific.

Thus, for me, I see intentional play to drive your agenda:
i.e.push JX as lynch candidate and remain low by making calculated decisions to show interest and responding methodically to blend in.

@all
Please share your thoughts on the above; do you see JayBrundage play as a bad townie?



Also why do you ask if im a bad townie. Why not just ask if people think I'm scum?


Notice how he doesn't really defend himself, he just shoots back a question.
On February 08 2013 14:35 jaybrundage wrote:
I fail to see anything in your response that indicates im scum.

The mislynch occurred cause JX was lurking hard till pressure was applied to him. And he didn't respond in a townie way. I once heard a good town player say. That for the day one lynch the only thing you need to do as town is to make sure you aren't the jackass that gets lynched. You usually have to play badly for it to happen.

Also yes I prefered JX to die over Palmar wasn't that clear. Your issue with consolidation isn't a real issue. It was the end of the day and I asked people to consolidate.


Again, he doesn't excuse his play he re-iterates his reasoning.

On February 08 2013 23:46 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:
hmm. to be frank
i havent made up my mind with you, im trying to read your town games to see why you said your a scummy-town.

I just wanted feedback on my points.

To give you some quick context. I am the best mislynch na. I used to get lynched about 90 percent of my games, though I have improved a bit cause people were getting used to my meta aka being scummy as fuck as town.

I usually lurk hard as scum and get spammy as town. But this game I don't wanna get overly spammy as it makes me look scummy lol.

Questions?

He is best mislynch NA. But it's not in the joking manner as before. His tone is more serious.

Town in Normal Mini Mafia IV
On January 30 2013 09:16 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 09:08 EmileZola wrote:
actually yeah why am I still talking about this shit

##vote jaybrundage

This is your pressure vote are you fucking srs? Or do you actually think im scum


Questions when he's pressure voted rather than defensive or instant counter attack.
On January 30 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 09:53 EmileZola wrote:
which is why I accused jay of not reading the thread.

In fact, I consider him scum for the manner in which he switched away from Sharrant. He seemed to switch away from Sharrant when it was apparent Sharrant would gain traction.

Distancing is a scum tactic. He prefers JX over Sharrant and never qualifies the preference any more than "JX has done worse". Not good enough. Either qualify it with tangible evidence, or die.

What the hell are you talking about. God forbid I have more then one scum read. Sharrant and JX are both scummy. Yes JX voted thrawn early but it doesn't make all his scummy actions irrelevant. Also Iamp also had JX as a scummy read. I have Lamp as a town read and i give his opinion some weight in my decisions. That is primarily why I started rereading filters and such to see if i could see what he said about Sharrant and JX.


Note the confident attitude.

Town (Fake doctor? XD) in our previous Shadowed Mini Mafia
On February 04 2014 12:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2014 12:10 suki wrote:
I think you don't really care about the answers, you just want to look like you're contributing.

How about you answer a few of the questions you posed yourself?

Oh I answered all those questions in my Google spreadsheet already. I ll post what I got on you guys so far. Its not all up to date on the recent things that happened.


1. Balla24 Town I like him so far very aggressive and making discussion and seems like a real player in this game
2. Sidesprang Bleh One post so far I knew he would be a candidate for a policy lynch and hes confirming that.

3. Alakaslam Posted 2 things with no content so far

4. cakemanofdoom no content There is quite a bit of things in the game atm and he chooses to comment on suki saying thats nice. Pretty lackluster choice

5. LoneMeow slightly scummy His first post sucked I don't like it at all and might be down to vote him just based on that. He followed up with basic policy stuff. I dont like him so far

6. Jaybrundage The towniest town that ever towned

7. Hopeless1der Meh we argued a bit over nothing hasn't posted any content tho so much is going on in the thread where did he go?

8. Oatsmaster Hasn't posted yet. I think at the start of the game is pretty late for him tho

9. JonnyLaw Pretty waffly at the start. He is posting but he doesn't seem to have firm convictions. He didn't liike Balla early but he has played with baller 3-2 times with him being scum so his suspicion is warrented. He hasn't produced much content tho he just seems like going with the flow

10. Suki scummy I don't like suki so far she just seems like she has no real motivation behind her posting. Her poke at jonnys waffleing was ok but then when balla inquired about it she said she never said she implied hes scum or anything LIke wtf? Why poke at someone but have no real reason behind it. It would seem that she didn't understand him but then she didn't say that she got very defensive. Said she didn't see anything with LM posting slight defending I dont like her atm

11. Koshi Posted some generic lets post alot then disappeared


No waffling here, no excuses on 'I can't get reads easy in D1'
On February 05 2014 02:15 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2014 02:10 Alakaslam wrote:
On February 04 2014 15:28 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 04 2014 15:20 Alakaslam wrote:
Last post by Jay Brundage makes sense I'm done fighting this thing, i'll be back when I can charge it or have a PC

Please don't post on your phone again if its gonna be this nonsensical. Take the time to correct it on your phone and reread what your typing or just go to a computer


I understand this sentiment but I think you actually did understand my posts in a sense.

I was UNABLE to edit them. That is what was so bad, I could barely get it to register a tap in the words and had to use talk text. That is why I stopped.

Anything that didn't make sense I will try to clarify after I catch up and probably after work. it is still morning.

jaybrundage you are rapidly convincing me you are scum.


I understood them in the sense that you think im scummy and don't like some of my posts. However why you thought they were scummy is a mystery to me. I would love to hear your thinking.

I still adhere to the fact that if you can't see someone's username and see who is posting what. That your reads are going to be terrible. I hope you can read the game knowing who is posting what.


Confidence. No heavy defense, no excuses.

On February 05 2014 12:13 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2014 12:03 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:49 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:23 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:17 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:10 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:05 Balla24 wrote:
I'd lynch LoneMeow.



That's fine.

I want to talk about Jay. He's actually here. Both times I question him about something he comes in with a town-like response to the questions. Jay refuses to do that until there's pressure on him though. How is this town behavior?

I find this funny. Should I come up with a scum like response? Also you do realize that I was making that case before you posted your "pressure" on me.


I'm trying to talk to you Jay. You called Suki scum twice then change your mind once she posts a case on Oats.

What do you think about Oats? You claim to like the case but don't say anything else. I want to know why. You've played with Oats before this game.

We can chat about Lonemeow after this if you'd like. For now, I'm curious about some of your opinions.


Yes I thought suki was scummy before. Her thing about not calling Jonny scum but interesting or what ever word she used did bother me. She just seemed to have no point to your posts. However with her case on Oats it showed that she wasn't just trying to appear to be posting. She actually was analyzing the game and looking for scum. So my read turned on her. Is it possible she's scum that noticed she was getting heat and decided to post a case? Sure possible. But I think the most likely possibility at this point is town.

I don't remember Oats too well in my previous games. He was never someone I really suspected. He can be hard to draw a bead on sometimes. Not a huge poster mostly short clip comments. I even had to go back and look briefly at the LoL PYP game. I think the case made good points I hadn't noticed before. Oats was not on my lynch list before Suki posted her case. And she made a good enough case for me to consider lynching him.

Also I felt the reason to make my own case because I want to contribute to the town. I didn't plan to just sheep Suki's read and just say yea I like all this Ill join. Because I wanted to post my own analysis I got's me an ego you know. Also by posting other scummy people we can choose as a town who we want to go for based on the information we have.



You don't need to sheep Suki. Post your opinion. "I like this part and I don't like this part." You're trying to tell people how to play and what to look for and then you have that post. You flip on Suki and at the same time aren't trying to convince people how to play the game anymore.


##vote Jaybrundage

I have no need to defend oats. Oats can do that himself. I liked the case in general. Why should I nitpick when I have no need too. Can I not agree with a case? I liked the case. Its that simple. I agree with the case. I dont see how you don't get it. Yes I changed my read on suki. I'm trying to figure out the game. She made a good case so more likely to be town.


More confidence.



Jay's play this game:

+ Show Spoiler +

On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:
On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote:
@jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?


Legitimate question.

Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game?

It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town.
I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game.

1. Because I said it last game.

2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D

I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day.


excuses.

On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 07:47 Koshi wrote:
Mine is very real. Super real.

you feel off.

I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that.

I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it.

Koshi is scum. I caught one :D


Immediate counter attack. Something tells me town Jay would be more likely to say "Can you explain why I feel off?" and prod with questions. In other words, his townie confidence is missing.

On February 07 2014 08:55 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 08:49 suki wrote:
##unvote King Balla
##vote Jaybrundage


What the hell are you seriously posting a super-serious-scum-hunt long ass post with quotes and reasoning two hours into the game? Take a CHILL PILL man.

Holy shit. Why the hell are you in such a rush to find scum out of the first four people who have entered the thread. This attitude is completely different from last game and I don't mean that in a good way.

Suki. Being aggressive does not =! equal scum. I am scum hunting. Why are you voting me. Instead of reading up on my case and seeing if it has merit. You asked me how I was going to change my approach this game. I said it was going to try to do more pressuring and scum hunting. I am doing that.

Should I not want to lynch scum this game. Your question doesn't make sense. It is not that they are in the first four people in the game that I have targeted them. I have targeted balla and Koshi because I find them the most likely to be scum. I think Jonny on the other hand is hella townie atm.


Self consciousness. Defensive, trying to provide reasons for the way he is playing.

On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote:
I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough.

If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons.

Pretty frustrating.


This is new. I don't think I've seen frustration in his previous games so I don't have a meta read on what this means. The thing that comes to mind is if he was confident townie he probably wouldn't care that people are calling him scummy and would question them right back in their faces.

On February 07 2014 11:52 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 11:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
n1 mislynch NA jay?

Numba 1 Mislynch NA xD


Joking tone that's present in his scum games when he mentions he's #1 mislynch.

On February 07 2014 11:54 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 11:51 Balla24 wrote:
Are you guys seriously pushing jay right now?

There's really nothing new. Everybody knows he's made some scummy decisions. He's been pressured to no end, no reason to keep pushing him now because we know almost everything about him. Let him play the game, watch him to see if he redeems himself, but there's no reason to keep pushing him unless there is NEW information.

Let him play unpressed, see what happens.

Balla talk to me why do you think my push on Koshi is scummy. I think while it isn't the most amazing case. It is after all an early day 1 case. And I think alot of things I said are completely true.


Self-conscious. This sort of thing doesn't show up in his town games.

+ Show Spoiler +

just look at this quote from the previous game:
On February 05 2014 11:49 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2014 11:23 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:17 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:10 JonnyLaw wrote:
On February 05 2014 11:05 Balla24 wrote:
I'd lynch LoneMeow.



That's fine.

I want to talk about Jay. He's actually here. Both times I question him about something he comes in with a town-like response to the questions. Jay refuses to do that until there's pressure on him though. How is this town behavior?

I find this funny. Should I come up with a scum like response? Also you do realize that I was making that case before you posted your "pressure" on me.


I'm trying to talk to you Jay. You called Suki scum twice then change your mind once she posts a case on Oats.

What do you think about Oats? You claim to like the case but don't say anything else. I want to know why. You've played with Oats before this game.

We can chat about Lonemeow after this if you'd like. For now, I'm curious about some of your opinions.


Yes I thought suki was scummy before. Her thing about not calling Jonny scum but interesting or what ever word she used did bother me. She just seemed to have no point to your posts. However with her case on Oats it showed that she wasn't just trying to appear to be posting. She actually was analyzing the game and looking for scum. So my read turned on her. Is it possible she's scum that noticed she was getting heat and decided to post a case? Sure possible. But I think the most likely possibility at this point is town.

I don't remember Oats too well in my previous games. He was never someone I really suspected. He can be hard to draw a bead on sometimes. Not a huge poster mostly short clip comments. I even had to go back and look briefly at the LoL PYP game. I think the case made good points I hadn't noticed before. Oats was not on my lynch list before Suki posted her case. And she made a good enough case for me to consider lynching him.

Also I felt the reason to make my own case because I want to contribute to the town. I didn't plan to just sheep Suki's read and just say yea I like all this Ill join. Because I wanted to post my own analysis I got's me an ego you know. Also by posting other scummy people we can choose as a town who we want to go for based on the information we have.


Notice how his reasons for finding me scummy were weak, however he doesn't say 'Oh yeah my reasons for thinking suki was scummy weren't that great.' he simply states what he thought. Ie. Confidence.



On February 07 2014 13:50 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 13:13 Balla24 wrote:
Ah yes! Finally.

Does what I said make sense to you from a town perspective now?


Why does he care that other people think he's town? Again, self-conscious, lack of confidence.
On February 08 2014 02:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2014 02:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
okay jay, so most of yesterday was 'heat of the moment'. have you re-read or reconsidered your scumreads?

Yea Balla is leaning town for me atm. I still think Koshi could be scum but everyone shitting on my push on him, means that the push wasn't not as good as I thought it was. So I won't be pushing him now and will try to get reads on other people.

excuses.



Huh. I think I've just convinced myself Jay is pretty damn scummy.

Also I noticed how in the town examples above, Jay has no problem asking people why they think he's scum, or confirming that they their read on him is that he's scum. In this game he'd rather defend himself than confirm someone's scum read or call them out on it.



This is a beautiful meta case, and how it should be done. Don't forget to see if you can do the same thing with the sidesprang stuff.

##unvote

I really like the fact that you actually have thought this through and you have a real followup.

On February 08 2014 03:28 Hopeless1der wrote:
Thats basically the same thing I said balla..I just didnt say it was his normal town play. Instead I explained why his play was townie to me.


Eh, I disagree here lol. Like, I don't really like the way oats plays from a town perspective, so what you said about him is pretty meh to me. The fact that he is consistent from last game is the more important part for me. It's good for you because you have a followup, but I don't really think it makes him super town the way he does what you're saying it's more null.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 07 2014 18:39 GMT
#509
I live to serve you, My King.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
February 07 2014 19:37 GMT
#510
jay did you confuse lonemeow with someone else? why did you think he had said things in thread when he literally had zero posts after the daypost until very very recently?
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
February 07 2014 19:55 GMT
#511
I have been working both days and nights with little rest periods. Has been really bad.

I did some reading though, and fwiw the start of the game had me really suspicious of the big change in Suki and Balla24's play. Can that stuff be explained? Things like a joke probabilities post about an RNG situation and kingship stuff, I really don't get it.

Time wasting and whatnot, why did you do it?
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
LoneMeow
Profile Joined June 2013
Finland1396 Posts
February 07 2014 20:19 GMT
#512
Okay, so:

JonnyLaw

Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.

Verdict: scummy


Balla24

Hunting scum, despite the roleplay garbage more or less playing like the last game.

Verdict: leaning town


jaybrundage

Early posts are terrible. Case on Koshi is absolutely rubbish. I think suki makes a reasonable point here:
On February 07 2014 08:58 suki wrote:
It's not the action but the motives.

Posting a long ass scum case this early just screams try-hard scum look at me I'm hunting scum! Why do you have to prove yourself this early as town, forcing a pure meta "koshi should be happy but he's not" argument to say that Koshi is definitely scum?


This is also horribly scummy, why would you narrow lynch between 2 candidates less than halfway through D1:
On February 07 2014 08:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok Town I suggest that you read up on Balla and Koshi. Look at there posts and think if it makes more sense that they are town, or if it makes more sense for them to both be scum. I would like to narrow the lynch between these two candidates.

Thank you for your time. I wanna leave soon but might wait around a bit to see if anything juicy pops up.



However, this seems like a town reaction to the situation:
On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote:
I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough.

If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons.

Pretty frustrating.


Verdict: null-ish, leaning scum


suki

I really hated the early game trolling and roleplay garbage, but she started to pressure people and post opinions after a while. Makes some good points such as above.

Verdict: null
LoneMeow
Profile Joined June 2013
Finland1396 Posts
February 07 2014 20:20 GMT
#513
On February 07 2014 19:36 Koshi wrote:
Why isn't he bad town? It kinda looks like LM his cases previous game and you were spot on there.
Also can you comment on the jayB thing I asked earlier?


Stray kitten is very sorry for being bad
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
February 07 2014 20:21 GMT
#514
I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.

I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.

Can we see a vote already?
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
February 07 2014 20:22 GMT
#515
On February 08 2014 05:20 LoneMeow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2014 19:36 Koshi wrote:
Why isn't he bad town? It kinda looks like LM his cases previous game and you were spot on there.
Also can you comment on the jayB thing I asked earlier?


Stray kitten is very sorry for being bad

If you continue reading I changed it into "new" because the cases were pretty spot on :D.
It just could be better explained.
I had a good night of sleep.
LoneMeow
Profile Joined June 2013
Finland1396 Posts
February 07 2014 20:24 GMT
#516
On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote:
I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.

I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.

Can we see a vote already?


Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection?
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 07 2014 20:26 GMT
#517
On February 08 2014 04:55 Alakaslam wrote:
I have been working both days and nights with little rest periods. Has been really bad.

I did some reading though, and fwiw the start of the game had me really suspicious of the big change in Suki and Balla24's play. Can that stuff be explained? Things like a joke probabilities post about an RNG situation and kingship stuff, I really don't get it.

Time wasting and whatnot, why did you do it?


Because I'm in a good mood and I felt like having a bit of fun. Is this suspicious 'big change' making you think I'm scummy? Why?
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
February 07 2014 20:31 GMT
#518
On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote:
I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.

I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.

Can we see a vote already?


Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection?

The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion?

Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).


That's so strange coming from a guy who is pretty straightforward and dares to gives his opinion. When they are both scum it could have been because Jonny was seeing the clusterfuck that JayB was pulling himself into and just didn't know what to do. But I can see scum Jonny seeing townies fight and maybe be startled a bit on what to say, which side to pick. But town Jonny not knowing what to say when scum jayB is parading in the thread. Mehhhh.
I had a good night of sleep.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 07 2014 20:32 GMT
#519
On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote:
Okay, so:

JonnyLaw

Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.

Verdict: scummy


Can you provide some examples to back this up?
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 07 2014 21:02 GMT
#520
Sidesprang's meta:

+ Show Spoiler +

Cop in II Titanic
On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.


--------

About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.

He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".

And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.


I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.



-------

@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.



This is pretty much his first post in the game. Notice he writes a short thing about policy and then starts scum hunting.

Most of his posts in this game are scum hunting, but I didn't find many difficult questions in this one.

Town in Newbie Mini Mafia LI

On January 06 2014 08:10 sidesprang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote:
Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals.



You don't see a reason why people should help Bella with creating a "tough environment for mafia to hide in and lynch some mafia" ?


Starts the game off with a pointed question trying to find TheChyz's motives.

On January 06 2014 08:59 sidesprang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote:
Let's hear some opinions on some people. Sidesprang what do you think of OWB and thechyz so far? etc etc

Be analytical. I'm already feeling a bit weird with thechyz but it's preliminary obviously and i'm waiting for him to post some more.


@ onlywonderboy

atm he is just null for me. from his PoV he has only stated obvious things so far. It not really contributing atm, but its to early to fault him for that. And he does say he is going to more active and contribute with meaningfull analysis, so as long as he atleast tries to do this we should be able to read him in the future.

@ thechyz,

I don't like him atm. In his first post he says he agrees with you and dont mind lynching lurkers to discourage lurking. But then in his second post he says he see no reason to why people should help you achivieving that same agenda he just agreed with. Feels very much like a contradiction to me.





This is his third post in the game and he's pointing out contradictions.

On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote:
@theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ?

Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ?


Questioning TheDragoon who was the top lynch candidate of the day. sidesprang was wary that the lynch on theDragoon was going to smoothly and tried getting information from theDragoon before the lynch.

Miller in TL Mafia XX
He spends most of the game apologizing for his low post quantity.

scum in TL Mafia XVIII
Like sidesprang pointed out, this scum game is from 4 years ago, something that I didn't think about as I was just looking through past games and not noticing the date. Regardless, I'll include some posts here to show where my line of thought came from in my case that I wrote up.

On February 14 2010 12:00 sidesprang wrote:
I definatly agree that we should not lynch someone based on day one clues, unless someone can make a foolproof case. But they should definatly be discussed and looked through, cause they could help us put the pieces toghter at a later day.

And it also gives us something to talk about, and im pretty sure the more posts there are the more information one could gather from this game and put it togheter.

policy talk to start the game

On February 15 2010 00:30 sidesprang wrote:
L's point about beeing 20 mafia and that it will take a long time before we get two different clues on a single mafia i dont really think is true.

Last game i was in there was 8 mafia and they had 3kp. meaning at day 3 we in the worst case scenario had 1 mafia with double clues.

In this game there is 20 mafia and 6 KP, meaning in the worst case we would have 4 double clues at day 4. But you with there beeing possible 12 mafia kills and 2 lynces one should think/hope that some mafia would die, and we get double clues at day 3 again.



Two posts later, setup talk.
On February 16 2010 08:05 sidesprang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2010 07:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On February 16 2010 07:44 redtooth wrote:
On February 16 2010 06:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Spamming the thread full of what shit? Posting an objective compilation of everyones arguments? Compiling voting history? Defending myself when redtooth and Ace accused me of being mafia? Finally getting Bill Murray to justify his statements? Don't put me on the same level as BM TT___TT

I guess for the time being Empyrean is our best bet. Ver did a great job of pointing out the inconsistency in his pro-town/mafia behavior from past games and the clue connection is just very very very very strong.

Redtooth did a decent job of defending himself, or at least why it doesn't make sense that he and Ace are both in the same mafia family. His argument for him and ace not being in different mafia families doesn't make sense. "Why would mafia defend a mafia from another family/not mafia"

Unless he wanted to discourage clue analysis because he fears it will hurt his mafia family, or wanted to defend Ace because regardless of Ace's role his argumentation is successfully dividing the town. If redtooth is mafia, he has no way of knowing Ace's role anyway, so saying "i wouldn't defend another families mafia" makes no sense because he doesn't know who those people are. I really doubt the mafia are going to ONLY defend one another, look what happened when I got lynched in the last game. By analyzing who I defended/supported/whose clues I ignored the entire rest of the mafia family was caught.

I'm not accusing you of being mafia redtooth, I'm just pointing out that the argument falls short.

I'm voting for L because so far his arguments have been extremely consistent, he's been trying to get the town moving/discouraging waste posts, and providing excellent clue analysis. Redtooth shouldn't have a problem with this, don't you want L as the other elected role anyway?
you're right. actually that's exactly what i want you to do. i want L as mayor and i want to be pardoner. no vigilantes means pardoner is very very powerful if he is mafia.

as for my argument in why it's sort of illogical for ace and me to be mafia in separate families is because consider the alternative: i could have silently held back and not brought attention to myself instead of being in the middle of controversy between the town. knowing previous games, L vs Ace was going to become a shitstorm whether i stepped in or not. instead i chose to argue a point, blew my top (admittedly more than a few times), and got into a position where my alignment was pretty damn clear. and if Ace isn't on my team (which would be the case if i was mafia and he wasn't in my family) then i would want him dead regardless of what role/alignment he was.

and guys i've said this before but i genuinely believed L was full of shit. now i only think he is half shitty but i've expressed my disdain for day 1 clues enough already.

so it's not about mafia ONLY defending each other. it's about a mafia risking his own neck to defend a good player that's not on his team. THAT is something that doesn't make sense. so if it doesn't make sense then that means i'm not mafia. yay we are finally caught up.


Fair point, now that is a good argument.

Why are we assuming day 1 clues are bad based off previous games? There are 20 mafia. It's highly unlikely that mafia will be getting 6 kills a night, I'd say 4 MAYBE 5 is more likely. Why?

1) Overlapping kills. The mafia are simply going to hit the same targets. Let's say, for example, Player X is green. He's been painted red by a lot of people and thus might be hit by both families. This could happen with anyone who was painted red but is not mafia of either family. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if even 2 kills overlap.

2) Smart medics. While mafia might avoid really big targets early on because they will be protected by medics, medics who are able to anticipate mafia goals will help reduce kills.

With 20 mafia, let's assume we get 5 hits a day. We don't see overlapping clues until DAY SIX

DAY SIX

If everyone feels uncomfortable with Day 1 clue analysis just based on previous experience, I guess there isnt really anything I can say. But let's please not ignore clues on Day 2. If someone makes an accusation based on clues at you, provide an alternative. Simply saying "day 1 clues are trash" isn't enough, especially when you aren't addressing the point of just how many mafia there are in this game and how strong clues need to be.

Also redtooth, I'd like you to clear something up for me. I found a mildly disturbing inconsistency in your arguments. While L was painting Ace red based on clues you said clue analysis on day 1 is trash; that's fine.

You also said the clues pointing to ace specifically were shaky and not well thought-out. Then merely a few posts later you said that the clues pointing toward Ace were so obvious/numerous he can't be mafia. Was there a change of heart here? what happened?


Man your so wrong about the overlapping clues thing. If we dont see overlapping clues before day 6, it is because the mafia only hits the town. And that is not realistic.

The mafia hitting 1/3 each lynch seems realistic if not to low to me. Then we have 6 dead by day 3. And already overlapping clues. Altho the mafia would prolly have overlapping hits.

But my point still stands. We will see overlapping hits WAY before day 6, and if we dont we're allready doomed cause we've lost half our town

The next post, more setup talk.

On February 21 2010 12:10 sidesprang wrote:
i changed my vote to quickstriker, but i dont see why we should not double lynch tomorrow. Since i feel we have alot of good clues to work of, and we will get more.

So you're gonna have to give more reasons for me to take away my double lynch vote.


No reason for his vote.
On February 26 2010 16:59 sidesprang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 16:00 Scamp wrote:
I'd also appreciate it if Sidesprang and Tredmasta would speak up. Especially Sidesprang in order to explain his last vote.


First, my votes are not set in stone. If so i would not have voted so early. But its the weekend coming up and i know im definatly going out on saturday(and the voting closes 1AM(or something like that) in norway. So i had to vote something in case i wont have the time later, ofc i could have abstained but i think scamp is mafia and that L might be and he

voting scamp, because of the cluelink towards you.

voting L, because he has lead this town on so many wrong turns. And i don't see any real proof of him beeing non mafia, and if he is mafia he has gotten away with far to much allready.

reasons for not voting johnnyspaz who i think is definatly mafia, let the other mafia team kill him.


And to the clue link from malongo, im not really sure what aristocracy of money means but for the rest of the first bold sentence i feel that is a huge strech. And im not decafchickens friend

And the bold part number two. That has to be a clue to johhnyspaz, i mean he gets turn into a pincushion. And he has a picture of sonic the hedgehog.

Basically this is his only scum hunting effort in the game.

Again, his filter was super short, but the thing that I noticed is the lack of scumhunting compared to his other town games.

But I missed something big in my meta analysis.. That is, sidesprang was scum in the original Shadowed game.

Scum in Shadowed Mafia
On February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:
Lol wtf game started today afterall.

Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit.

Show nested quote +
On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:
Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will

Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o


Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ?

On February 04 2014 12:29 sidesprang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2014 11:25 jaybrundage wrote:
On February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:
Lol wtf game started today afterall.

Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit.

On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:
Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will

Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o


Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ?

Sidesprung you asked me a question I responded. There is alot going in the thread right now. I don't just want to see content I want to see some post count too. People are conversing, poking at one another a back and forth. You make one question at me and you disappeared. Don't you have anything else to comment on, or respond to my post or make a comment on another post or give your opinion. Anything really.

Dropping one post and leaving the thread is not the environment town should be fostering. Thru discussion like i was talking about earlier we can learn other alignments and discover ulterior motives. Ill give you somethings to post on.

What do you think of Balla's early vote on LM? Was it appropriate given LM"s posts?

What do you think of my response to your post? Does what I say made sense? Do you agree that I should have questioned Jonny about Balla's scum game or should I have not said anything?

Why do you think Suki poke at Jonnys two opinions? Do you think Suki got defensive after Balla inquired about her post? Why do you think Suki would post about jonny if not trying to discern if hes mafia or not? (These questions go out to Suki as well?)

Who is your towniest read at the moment? Who do you think is most likely scum? Do you believe in policy lynching lurkers? What is the lowest amount someone should be expected to post?



Firstly its Sidesprang, not sidesprung or whatever else ppl think it is.

I don't mind Balla voting for LM, because I think if he keeps on playing like this he will hopefully be easy to read. As for why he voted I dont really agree with. LM's stance on koshi's "plan" is kinda like mine. Judge people based on content not number of posts, and also only reason to lynch lurkers is if there are no better options available.

I liked your response, you had a reason for asking it and you had logic backing it up. Answer felt honest. Tho I do not agree with your logic. It's nice and all generating discussion, but I dont think going over ppl's meta this early is wise. As I think it would be harder to use meta against players if it's been discussed in thread first.

The whole suki / jonny deal requires more thought if I wanna read something out of it. Aka atm I don't really know, and I will read more up on that tomorrow when I got better time.

I got some people whom I feel are playing protown atm, but I see no reason sharing townreads at this point.

I don't have scumreads atm, tho I got a bit interested in Suki since she disliked your post. A post I liked cause you are doing what I think you should be doing with lurkers (get them to post, so you can read them, not lynch them blindly).

People should post enough to be readable and enough to get their scumreads out. I don't belive in a set number.


his first two posts in the game. Basically... He doesn't spend time on policy talk and he starts hunting right away.



So yeah. Taking this into account my case on sidesprang doesn't hold any water. Based on the games that I linked in my original post, I think that my conclusions were reasonable - policy talk in his scum game and scum hunting in his town games. But taking into account the previous Shadowed game where he was scum it's obvious he's changed (read improved) his scum game quite a bit.

Anyways, I suppose I'm null on sidesprang for now. I'll take a closer look at him later.
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