EPT[C][M][T] Survivor Series Mafia
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Palmar
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On February 07 2014 23:32 Mocsta wrote: I wonder if this will be lazy Palmar like last time And then flips a switch and suddenly is super town True fact. Last nomination game Palomar offered to die in my place.!! Well everyone nominated was town and I was like "whatever". | ||
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I'm up for lynching anyone who voted for starting on a weekend. | ||
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I'm like 20 posts into reading the game, so no. | ||
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While I'm reading and since a few people seem to be around, I'd like to ask anyone that thinks he's posted well enough for him to think that others should have a strong townread on him, to step up and claim it. ie: if you think you're obvious town, please say you are obvious town. And please don't troll this questions, only say you are if you genuinely think your posting so far in the game should allow for an easy townread on you. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:06 WaveofShadow wrote: This is an intriguing question, but do you find it all at odds with the idea that we should not be giving out townreads in this game? I'm a cocky bastard. I think I can find townies faster than mafia can get me to lynch lazy/shit townies. So I do not agree with the "don't give out townreads" thing. Not to mention, this actually has nothing to do with townreads. I doubt anyone would claim to have a scumread on himself. The point is to gauge how people feel about their own contributions to the game. I don't care whether you _think_ other people have a townread, I care if _you think they should_ have a townread. | ||
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I've finished reading the thread. I think we should kill geript. I may be biased because I think he's a dick, but I also think he has a good chance of being scum. ##Vote: geript | ||
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There are several other things that stand out. He opened the game by going after two players unlikely to defend themselves at that point in the game. The Oats asked him about his intentios with the vote which is a perfectly reasonable question but that prompted geript to call the question stupid and countervote Oats, which is clearly not very productive. I mean maybe he's just decided to be a dick which would actually fit what I think of him in general, but it's not helping us win the game and if he continues to play like this I'd frankly simply be ok with lynching him no matter his alignment just so I don't have to deal with him. But there's also the option that he's being a dick because it's easier than playing normally when you're scum... so.. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:48 geript wrote: No this is blatantly false and Palmar's fucking scum for trying to push me like this. Everyone who's ever played with me should know like the simplest way to read me is by filter length. Marv explained it in LoL. It's been true every time. I fucking struggle like hell to post as scum. Palmar even fucking knows this; he played LXI or whatever one I was confrimed town in and my activity was shit for most of the game. Not only this, but Palmar is trying to skew my actions on Oats. Oats is generally pretty easy to read based on how much of a dick he's being in combination with his activity. As town, Oats is far more willing to get into shitfests at any moment and is far more active than he is as scum. Just like in LoL he wasn't a dick early, despite being given the option to get into a shitfest he's just avoided it. So yah, PALMAR IS SCUMB!!!!!!!!! Palmar is scum with Oats and is using his name to protect him just like Rayn does. What is blatantly false? I'm not sure I'm following you. I think everything I said in my post was in fact true. I don't care what you think should be the best way to read you. How am I trying to skew your actions, literally what I said happened. I'll even quote it. On February 08 2014 11:32 Oatsmaster wrote: What are you hoping your vote will achieve geript? No one is gonna lynch va just because of that. Its not useful to discuss the nomination mechanic now so dont On February 08 2014 12:54 geript wrote: ##unvote ##vote Oats Stupid question bro. I put my vote where I wanna. Are you denying this happened? I mean feel free to attack my conclusion, but you can't attack my premise, that's just dumb. Also, I don't care what you think about "how players normally are". I'm not going to let people get away with doing stuff on "meta". | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:56 geript wrote: I don't know what Palmar is doing exactly. But he's completely and intentionally misconstruing my actions against Oats. Hell, Palmar IIRC has had scumreads on oats before due to lack of activity. The fact that he's painting my actions on Oats so scummy and not even looking at Oats is scummy as fuck. He's chainsawing onto me and using his "name" to put pressure. How isn't that exactly what I posted and what he did? Second, how do you even know what Palmar is doing? That either means that you know that Palmar is town because you're scum or you're both scum together. Explain. 1. Where did I say I'm not looking at Oats? 2. I even said that I assumed the rest of town is better than me by now, so how am I "using my name" 3. He knows what I'm doing because he has read my posts | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:58 geript wrote: No. It happened. You're trying to skew my purpose behind it in a scummy light. Do you deny that you've had scumreads on Oats before for lack of activity. Absolutely not, I have in fact had scumreads, or at least willingness to lynch, based on activity alone, and I think you may be right that Oats has been in the past one of those people. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:58 geript wrote: No. It happened. You're trying to skew my purpose behind it in a scummy light. Do you deny that you've had scumreads on Oats before for lack of activity. Well my conclusion was that it wasn't productive, as I said in my post. I mean you may think it was but to me what you did was not productive at all. Now we can debate whether or not it's reasonable to make the jump from "unproductive" to "scummy". | ||
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On February 09 2014 07:02 geript wrote: 1. You're trying to push me based on complete bullshit instead of Oats. That warrants protecting him. 2. Despite what you say, we all know that you think you're the best at this game ever or some other hsit. 3. Why answer for him? Do you want to protect him too? 1. If that is protecting, then yeah, I'm protecting every single player in the game except you at the moment. I could push oats, but I could also be pushing other people. I decided to push you. 2. How on earth am I meant to answer that... are you seriously accusing me of being Palmar? I don't have an alternative account I can post under. Please stop this. 3. Because I can. | ||
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On February 09 2014 07:21 geript wrote: How the fuck am I not supposed to use meta. How do you think people play mafia with people they don't know well? On February 09 2014 07:21 geript wrote:I've literally been intentionally interacting with people to get a read on them. Like the Scooby doo post with Alakaslam. The best way to read him now and always is to determine whether or not he's having fun in the game. Like if he's carefree and having fun then he's town; as scum he gets all tense and freezes up. So my point was to get a series of interactions with him where I could tell the difference. The fact that he replaced out bothers me and I'm not quite sure what to think of it. This is fair, it's obviously a bit dumb, but I guess the story makes sense. On February 09 2014 07:21 geript wrote:Then there's the Oats thing which I've already covered. There's the activity thing which you seem content to ignore completely despite the fact that it's true. You say you've "covered" the Oats thing, but I still don't understand why you couldn't just answer Oats the question at the time. I mean you've now explained why you did what you did, and since you changed your vote in the same post you refused Oats an answer, your "poke" was no longer valid, so I still struggle with why you feel like you have to be a dick. On February 09 2014 07:21 geript wrote:Hell, I even wanted to understand how VE was intending to approach Cora as I figured it'd help me give a read on him. Like I pick and probe so that I can get reads You said something like "treat cora like geript is in the game (tm)". I have no idea what that even means. On February 09 2014 07:21 geript wrote: I'm literally like the simplest person to read ever. The fact that people can't ever even fucking read me right is so frustrating when i was so fucking stoked to just be able to play a fucking game again. You think you're easy to read, but because you fucking insist on being a dick and intentionally do stupid and bad things, you're not. It's objectively bad to do some of the things you've done. If you want to be easy to read, be less of a dick and less disruptive. That all being said I need to consider. I have no opinion on Marv yet but he seems to think you're town... so idk. Please come back to the thread more useful and less asshole. | ||
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On February 09 2014 10:00 marvellosity wrote: There's no reason that unproductive might come from town? It shouldn't. I'm not saying it couldn't, but it shouldn't. I mean you always have to work around or with people that just don't even try. The hard part is realizing who's mafia and who's just an asshole. | ||
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On February 09 2014 10:04 marvellosity wrote: Thing is, Palmar, I like your "who sees themselves as obv town" question because it's kooky, and I thnk in a good way. I'm not sure I agree on what you've done for the results. In my experience town are far more likely to think they look obv-town and mafia rarely think that way, even as a joke response. I constantly say I'm obv-town as town and can almost never make myself say it as mafia, as a joke or otherwise. I specifically asked people not to troll the response. So I am assuming geript's opinion of himself is genuine. His later outburst actually supports that, so that's consistent. I don't think it was a joke response. So yeah, it's entirely plausible geript just has a really hard time realizing how shit his posting is because he's caught up in trying to be a badass (why do so many people here want to be badasses?). | ||
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Bad, or scum?  | ||
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On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote: Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message. Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason? On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote: We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum. I really need clarification on this. I was not trying to rile geript up, I posted facts about what he had done in the game so far and voted for him. And apparently it's easy to attack him as scum. So by extension should geript be immune to scrutiny as it's too easy to attack him? I don't really know where you're going with this but all I can read from it is that you think that going after geript is a waste of time and shouldn't be done, in fact merely accusing him seems to be scummy. I'm amazed you allow yourself to think like this. | ||
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Is there any specific reason you wanted other people to look at me, instead of just doing it yourself and presenting your conclusion? @Marv: I think you're voting Oats, could you explain to me why? All I remember about him is that I noted his early question (the very question that started my intrigue into geript) was valid, but a bit "cheap" if you will, ie: it bears no meaning on his alignment, it's not a thoughtful or an analytical question. I've mostly ignored him since. But I'm all ears. | ||
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On February 09 2014 22:17 marvellosity wrote: I think Koshi is a terrible lynch today I would agree he's relatively far down my list of people I'd like to lynch. I'll have more time tonight. | ||
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Now that's not to say much as I'm having an unusually hard time figuring out townies because not many people are making coherent cases or trains of thought, but yeah. I would be hard-pressed to want to lynch either today, but compared to strong town reads from other games neither of them is very strong, just better than anything else I have at the moment. | ||
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On February 09 2014 22:35 marvellosity wrote: Do you think i should be reading you as town, Palmar? Yeah I think so by now. Probably with some reservations, mostly because of activity/lack of interaction with half the thread, but what I've posted is pretty straightforward. | ||
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im off for like 4 hours, or at least only on phone. | ||
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I don't think I want to lynch Kosher. Other people I don't want to lynch include WoS, Oats, myself, Risen etc. I worry about the Cora wagon. I pointed out some inconsistency in his play myself, but his random vote on me there before he switched is really head scratching if he's mafia. Now his is obviously not going to make much sense to anyone but myself, but given how he's been wanting to kill me and been casually calling me out all game, it seems like a strange vote as it makes it more likely he'll flip AND if he flips mafia he's basically confirming me as town. So knowing my own alignment, his move just doesn't make any sense if he's mafia. I'd much rather lynch somewhere into geript, marv, VE, rayn, or even holyfare. I'm unsure about yamato... | ||
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On February 08 2014 11:25 VayneAuthority wrote: I'd say the mafia team would not bother chatting with eachother this early, if they have even showed up at all. Can probably put mutually exclusive brackets on geript(wave,yamato) This is the post I liked btw. It's not necessarily true, but it's not a bad point. | ||
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On February 10 2014 05:59 Holyflare wrote: This is how cora plays scum based on research (in the above post). Yeah you bombed that case while I was writing. I'll read it after I'm done with VA's filter. In the meantime, do you in general agree or disagree with my current assessment of he game and the tiers of players I've suggested? I gave comments about most of the players in the game, and my feeling on them. If something sticks out to you please let me know. | ||
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On February 10 2014 06:02 Risen wrote: I disagree. I think his vote on you would have been perfectly timed to get you lynched if more people had gotten on the hate train. It points to me that he isn't committed to his voting and is instead just trying to find some way to have thread presence. You also got ninja'd by a "solid" post from HF that really doesn't say much to me. It's a nice amount of effort, but it's all stuff that could be found and pointed out by someone looking to make a case on the person who's leading in votes at the moment. I would be down to lynch marv if I was feeling like a troll, but I'm not. I will say there has been very little in my mafia career that was more satisfying than fingering marv as total scum for no reason since I was getting lynched, and having him flip scum (after I flipped town and everyone just said omg Risen hydra'd with marv he must know something). God that was so long ago. Bitch please, I got marv to ragequit by tunneling him. Get on my level. I the bolded is a possible explanation, and if I can't get anything else going Cora is probably the wagon I'll support. I still think we should lynch geript. He's just fucked off and done nothing since it became clear my case wasn't winning people over easily. Also I like all the resistance to his lynch, makes me think it's more likely he's scum. | ||
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Gonna read Cora's filter again. My main reservations is the amount of people on his wagon, the lack of resistance, and the strange vote on me, but all of those things are subjective, so maybe the correct play is to lynch him. I'd at least be pretty happy with not having to play with him. | ||
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On February 10 2014 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm here. Yamato saying he'd lynch me is silly, he such a troll. Palmar too do you believe those guys? Clownin fo srs. Dazzle me with your wisdom honey. | ||
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On February 10 2014 06:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I know I'm not in here writing huge cases or whatever but I've been forthcoming with my thoughts when I'm around...not sure what the problem is, and at least Palmar has given literally no reason. Tomatos reasons so bad, I have to wonder if I'm missing something. No reasons for what... being suspicious of you? or are you talking about the people I'm actually actively pushing? I have no reason to be suspicious of you other than I don't think you look very townie. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Corazon Read my filter for the reasons, I had already pointed some stuff about him out. I also hated his early "get off the hook" post, and tbh, fuck him for wanting to kill me. | ||
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On February 10 2014 06:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmer was that last bit about Cora necessary? Like okay if you agree with Holy case then fine but what did you hope to accomplish by attacking him personally? He's refused to answer my questions, he's attacked me without providing any reasoning other than apparently geript should be immune to scrutiny or something. If he's town he's putting literally no effort into the game. You know I don't like playing with people who don't try. | ||
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On February 10 2014 07:32 Corazon wrote: I don't really care about responding to you Why are you surprised you're getting lynched when you're intentionally being a dick? It's a really simple plea for clarification that could've helped. Is this a new thing here? Everyone so busy trying to be badass that it gets in the way of playing the game? | ||
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What the hell dude. You complain about people being tunneled in on you and refuse to respond to those that aren't. I sincerely hope you're mafia so I don't have to think you're just a gigantic asshole. | ||
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On February 10 2014 09:37 Holyflare wrote: Now this looks MORE suspicious. Click me! Palmar is there any reason you appear right at the deadline instead of before it just to insult cora? He was guaranteed to get lynched. I don't think it's an insult really, I begged him to communicate with me but he refused repeatedly, then complains about people being tunneled in. It's terrible way to play mafia. What did you want me to do before the lynch? I tried, but this guy just decided to be an asshole instead of playing the game so I'm glad he's dead. | ||
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On February 10 2014 09:46 Corazon wrote: gg gl town fuck you Palmar you're an asshole. | ||
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On February 10 2014 09:49 Holyflare wrote: Well click the click me part and respond to what I said please. I think I sort of already answered it. I liked the geript wagon better because he did more objectively scummy things. However I was literally the only person on it, so I felt like I needed to make a stance on the VA/Kosher/Corazon thing. If you read my filter around that time you should see pretty clearly my thought process. I had all kinds of reservations. It's never really a scum lynch when it's this easy, but the guy hadn't exactly done anything to make himself look town. In fact all the reasons I could list for him to be town were subjective. On February 10 2014 07:32 Corazon wrote: I don't really care about responding to you And after this post I just didn't care. I can't play with people like this. Intentionally trying to lose should be bannable. | ||
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You display hesitance that all of your reads up to that point are head scratching from mafia cora but then you also use all of those reasons that you previously mentioned to then vote him? Which is is it? Is he mafia because of them or town because of them? Why even qualify your read with a "this feels off" and then vote him anyway? And this is just you misunderstanding or misreading. These are the posts I'm referring to when I said I brought up points against him earlier: On February 09 2014 21:59 Palmar wrote: I really need clarification on this. I was not trying to rile geript up, I posted facts about what he had done in the game so far and voted for him. And apparently it's easy to attack him as scum. So by extension should geript be immune to scrutiny as it's too easy to attack him? I don't really know where you're going with this but all I can read from it is that you think that going after geript is a waste of time and shouldn't be done, in fact merely accusing him seems to be scummy. I'm amazed you allow yourself to think like this. On February 09 2014 22:07 Palmar wrote: in addition @Corazon: Is there any specific reason you wanted other people to look at me, instead of just doing it yourself and presenting your conclusion? All of which he promptly ignored and refused to answer. And in addition he did call me scum quite early. These reasons all still hold up. However my reservations were based on completely different things, mostly subjective stuff like how easy the wagon was rolling, how no one was defending him, how dumb his vote was (remember, his vote is much later than his accusations of me). And I said "this feels off" because it felt off, I'm usually honest like that. Doesn't mean I hesitate lynching people who're playing for the mafia, no matter them being possible town based on subjective stuff. | ||
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On February 10 2014 09:58 Holyflare wrote: Do you think arguing with your scum read is useful? I'm pretty sure that's what he was trying to avoid with that post. So why would you just ignore him instead of thinking that could be a possibility? I'm town, he should argue with me so I can convince him I am. Not doing so is trying to lose. | ||
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On February 10 2014 10:05 Grackaroni wrote: Sooooo who's getting nominated? I bet it will be Marv/Palmar/Yamato I'd be fine with that, ez marv lynch. | ||
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On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: Moot now, but Cora flipping mafia evidently doesn't make you even close to confirmed town, you should know this with your experience But it should've made me at least very likely town, given how he had been pushing me before he even got into much trouble himself. Also do you think I'm smart enough to make that bold claim as mafia, knowing he was never going to flip mafia? Possible, but not probable. On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: General appeal to "subjective" and "objective" scumminess which isn't specific in this post but across the rest of your posts. There's no such thing as subjective or objective scumminess really, and pushing "objective" scumminess is a cop out for pushing bad lynches because people are doing "bad" things. Maybe I'm using the terms incorrectly, but here's what I meant. Whenever I say "objective reasons" it's something that is done by the player that is inherently scummy, no matter who does it. This can be pushing shitty lynches, not reading the thread, lurking, making bad comments, expecting other people to play the game for you etc etc. Anything directly done by the player in question that should always raise some alarms. Whenever I said "subjective reasons", I mean something that is not directly related to this player's posting in the current game, and depends on some external factor. This could be meta-ish (ex: "I'd expect him to rage here but he didn't"). There is nothing scummy about not raging, unless you factor in something else. But in THIS case I mostly meant stuff like how easy the wagon was, how silly his vote would be if mafia, how no one was really defending him etc. So at least now you know what I mean, I think you're smart enough to see why these aren't the same, even if my I misused some terms. On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: Random-ass unexplained list of people you want to lynch, including me, who you should "subjectively" not be wanting to lynch by this stage in the game. Including me in this list makes you bad or mafia, and I hold you to higher standards than I do the rest of this game. You hadn't, and still really haven't, done much to help a game along that desperately needed focused discussion. It was clear that my push on geript which at the time was I think one of the few well-constructed theories in the game wasn't really being listened to because apparently he is immune to being scum (thank you based Corazon). We really could've used some focused discussion from you, but instead you did a vote on Oats that felt almost disinterested, and only explained it when I asked you to, and turned out your reasons were basically just meta stuff I can't really connect with as I haven't played with Oats nearly as much as you. I mean I could just sheep you in that case, but you hardly even tried to convince anyone you're town. So yeah, I dumped you in the list of people more likely to be mafia, but I don't pretend to think I was entirely right on every mafia on day one, and I didn't actively push for your lynch (in hindsight, you may have noted I specifically did not join that tiny marv-wagon that was forming). You're being decisively null, I wish you did something to convince us one way or the other. On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: Random ellipses with yamato, why even bother saying it? What is the whole post trying to achieve? Why not say it? Do you think less information is helpful in any way? I sincerely have no idea about yamato. I think my early game notes said something like "useless, but I guess he's often useless so idk". I'm still unsure on him. From where I currently stand there is a pool of gray pile in the middle-ish of this game, mostly made up of experienced players, and I'm having a hard time figuring out who's what. I still think geript is scum. I still think WoS and Risen are unlikely to be scum. I still think Oats and VA are somewhat unlikely to be scum. Holyflare actually came on strong when he started posting, so that's good, but his long absence is sort of discomforting, along with the fact that he brought very little new discussion. Although his questioning of me tonight has been pretty good. This leaves a bit of a mess with you, rayn, kosher, yamato, ve and grack in it, where I think 3 are scum. at least 2 but maybe 3. Clearing you would help a lot figuring out this game. | ||
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On February 10 2014 23:51 marvellosity wrote: VA is quite likely to be scum I think, why don't you think so? His move off Corazon felt really contrived towards the end of the day. Voting Oats with "shenannies" with this reasoning: - and then when pressed by me on how/why, he said: And yet, despite the fact it didn't look like his scumgame and maybe it was all some sort of game - his vote remained on Oats at the end of the day. Basically an astonishing misuse of his vote that apparently no-one notices or cares about. Because it's VA? Sure, it's strange, but are you certain there is benefit in mafia for doing what he did? I just decided it was illogical as either faction really. I don't believe "getting off a wagon" is a thing because anyone who is reading the game knows he was on Corazon, in addition he didn't do anything to claim credit for "moving off Cora". He made a random statement about the attitude of Cora that may well be right. I actually agree Cora's hyper aggressiveness at the end made him less likely to be scum. So why did he do it? Shenanigans? sure, but is that alignment indicative? Maybe it is, please explain to me why. I had a weak town-read on him for some early game posts. Most notably this one. On February 08 2014 11:25 VayneAuthority wrote: I'd say the mafia team would not bother chatting with eachother this early, if they have even showed up at all. Can probably put mutually exclusive brackets on geript(wave,yamato) This just felt like a pretty good random observation to make at the time. It's a bit of Vivax logic but I like vivax logic. On February 09 2014 16:14 VayneAuthority wrote: pretty much I will agree on any policy involving lynching the less desirable players even if it includes myself after giving it some thought. There is no reason for mafia to not nominate all the more townie looking people and make town pick off the better players. So it is really in our best interests to weed out those not participating as much (I realize that is me right now, but day 1 I am never that active) Also this feels like sort-of straightforward attitude. I'm no expert at reading this guy obviously, but I need to be convinced that I should think he's scum. I wish he participated more though. | ||
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If one of you guys is scum I'm going to come back to this moment. If both of you are... well played. | ||
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On February 11 2014 00:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar who do you think is mafia? I have a hard time following where you are atm. Until I started posting today: you/marv/VE/geript. Now I'm not so sure, your conversation feels genuine enough, and marv seems to be actually listening and evaluating so I don't know. Also you don't have to be posting right now (see: yamato, ve, etc) but you are. I think I made a pretty good summary of where I stand now a few posts back. I still want to lynch geript, and I'm really warming up to the idea of lynching VE. So yeah, I'm going to have to reevaluate my reads a bit. Some of the people I mostly ignored on day 1 (grack, yamato) might need some harder looking at. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: imo Slam was pretty clearly town based on how happy he was. Someone (geript maybe?) said you read Slam based purely on if he is happy or not and i think that's true. Alakaslam looked pretty town. Kosher not so much, but I don't think he's a good lynch tomorrow. | ||
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in general I agree with this sentiment: On February 11 2014 00:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: WoS is amongst the players who actually seem like they are trying to do something. | ||
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I take it to mean that your story here marv, is that WoS is softly pushing Corazon, but decides against joining that wagon in favor of trying to buy town credit for not being on the mislynch and then raging about it? Let's broaden the question too, do you think the wagon on Corazon was a "safe" wagon for the mafia. Do you think there are multiple scum on him? | ||
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None of my stronger scumreads are on the wagon. I'm town, and I think Risen is too. I don't really want to lynch Koshi, Holyflare looks ok, and marv/rayn are doing a better job tonight than they did yesterday. VA was on the wagon too, but as I already mentioned, I don't see anything particularly scummy about his actions, and while I have no reason to think I'm being lied to that he always plays mafia like that, I'd rather trust my own feeling for now. So that really just leaves yamato. Maybe there were no mafia on the wagon, but I just find that kind of unlikely. I need to read Grack. his lone-ranger vote is a bit strange (so is geript's, but we all know he's scum anyway). | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:35 marvellosity wrote: VA was off the wagon in the end, have you not been reading any of my posts on him? :p I'm aware, unfortunate wording (I already posted something like "people are going to remember he was on the cora wagon") I said "VA was on the wagon too" and I meant "VA used to be on the wagon too" Or something like that, you get what I said. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar why does Holyflare look okay? I found his post about some of the votes worrying. This one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442512¤tpage=41#803 This to me (especially considering the timing) looks like "let's find some people suspicious given that Cora will flip town". This posts doesn't seem to be achieving anything and Holyflare brings it up later with a mindset that to me reads like "look what i said earlier". Mostly because I felt his approach to talking to me after the lynch was relatively healthy. It's entirely possible I may be mistaking tentative with reasonable (ie, given people like Cora called me scum for no reason, it's nice to talk to people who actually ask questions and respond), but yeah. I thought his questioning was indicative of someone who had an actual interest in finding out what went on. | ||
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Holyflare actually asked concise questions. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: I find it problematic because he does not really have any insight to provide in those particular "reads" (i don't even know what he is trying to say). Like he points out something that is suspicious (??), doesn't say why and ends up with a question "are all these people scum", like someone else needs to decide for him. Then he brings the same thing up again after the lynch. Maybe I'm putting too much value into how he interacted with me, and not enough in what else he said. who knows. | ||
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should we lynch yamato to make him mad? | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: We could do that, then when he calls us all idiots and retards we know he is town and we can switch to WoS or VE. VE being vastly the better choice of those two. | ||
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I'm totally off the WoS=town wagon now. | ||
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On February 11 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote: Also Palmar thinks geript is mafia which makes geript very likely to be town. bitch pls | ||
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On February 11 2014 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think this is a good heuristic. Palmar called "confirmed town geript" scum in LXI basically in all of his posts lol. Painful game. Also the reason I don't like geript. He was a real dick about that game. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:17 Risen wrote: Uhhh, you realize we're playing FOR A FREAKING CROWN?!? I aint getting it, I fucked up badly on day 1 by allowing other people to have opinions and talk. My bad guys. | ||
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Like it would be nice if rayn and marv vouched for each other's towniness so I can blame one if the other turns out to be scum. Now if they're both scum I guess I'd have to blame myself. Also, post count during the night is always an interesting stat to look at (hi yamato, oats etc  ) | ||
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>New Meta | ||
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boring choice mafia. I suppose I'll spend some time writing my thoughts on every player in the game. Don't really anticipate surviving this. | ||
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On February 11 2014 09:33 marvellosity wrote: That's not really the point - do you *want* to survive it? surviving would be nice yeah. But if I during thorough reading convince myself you're both town I don't really mind. | ||
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I will write something on it. To be honest I don't think it's a terrible idea if we all work as if we're about to be lynched, ie, start creating information. | ||
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On February 11 2014 16:25 Oatsmaster wrote: I could totally lynch yamato for that vote too Let's discuss it for a bit, and for the moment let's assume I'm town, because that's actually important for the discussion at hand. Why does this vote make yamato scum? Does it make sense for scum-yamato to do this? Given the assumption that marv is not the one who's going to die from the nomination, why on earth would scum-yamato place his vote on the one person that is most likely to be alive to give him a hard time later in the game. I'm not saying he can't be scum, it's just food for thought. | ||
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On February 11 2014 17:51 Koshi wrote: How are you dieing? I don't know yet, but when the time comes I'll be ready. | ||
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On February 11 2014 17:58 Koshi wrote: I don't understand what you being town has to do with it. But yamato being town will be judged on how he returns to thread after his 72h porck-chop cooking. I got him as town for his "big" post with the quoting of other people somewhere in the middle of the day and a decent filter. And the emotions at the end of lynch. Don't know if scum yamato is still the 1-2 hardtry posts into nothingness like it was when he rolled a lot of scum 6 months ago. But atm I got yamato as town. Oats is just being wrong. again. I don't agree with Oats's conclusion, but that doesn't really make it invalid. What I need is a thought process, to understand why he just did what he did. 1. Oats reads post 2. *something here* 3. Oats wants to lynch yamato. I need Oats to fill in the blank. What specifically about that vote makes yamato lynch-worthy. | ||
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On February 11 2014 18:04 Oatsmaster wrote: So assuming the vote is there because he wants to lyncch marv, he isnt doing shit to make that happeb. Its the only vote on marv and now, looks like he doesnt give a shit which one out of the three dudes die. Scum yamato might do this because he expects to use the reasoning "why would I do this if im scum bla bla". Honestly though, if hes scum he wont get lynched just because of a shoddy vote so its possible he isnt thinking about the long term. What do you think Palmar? I think scum prefer safe play over most everything else. Sure it's entirely possible yamato anticipated someone noticing how little sense the vote on marv makes sense from a mafia perspective. But at face value (ie: disregard wifom) this vote by itself is not scummy. And I'm surprised you'd try to portray it as such. | ||
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I need to confirm this, but initial reading of rayn's filter makes me think it's very, very unlikely he's mafia. I'm even contemplating asking people to lynch me over him, if unwilling to lynch marv. | ||
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On February 11 2014 18:32 Koshi wrote: There is a post of you out there that says geript, marv, VE, rayn, holyfare, yamato are scum. Oats/WoS town. Could you explain those reads? and the progression to current times? Gonna give you the brief version. geript I think everyone understands why I want to lynch. Also notice how he has absolutely no presence in the thread since it became clear he wasn't getting lynched. He's like superscum and I still want to lynch him. VE had, and still has no impact on the game and seems relatively content about it. He has driven no discussion or pushed no ideas hard. In general whenever I don't think VE is town, he's scum. marv at the time had thrown out a really lazy read on Oats that may have been legit, but he made no effort to present it in concise enough manner for anyone to pick up on it. I gave Oats townie points and marv scum points for that interaction, although obviously my reads have changed since. rayn I just felt like wasn't really saying much, and I think I was wrong now that I've spent some time reading him. holyflare at the time was inactive. WoS just writes so much... he's gotta be town. | ||
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VisceraEyes - he did that singyy thing. This is probably the worst scumtell ever, but VE tends to do little nervous twitches like that when he's scum. I'm referring to this post: On February 08 2014 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: I love town! And I hate the mafiaaaaaaaaa! the drawn out aaaa at the end is to no one else but me a scumtell for VE. I don't expect anyone to buy this part, but hey, this is what I noted. Rayn - idk... first post maybe bad? Can't even remember what I'm referring to. In hindsight there's nothing wrong with his inital post(s) Alakaslam - First post kinda bad - Nice question about geript's vote thing. WoS - Kinda weird first post - better later Holyflar - Good entrance ^^ I'm referring to this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20749533 geript -instavotes weaklings Vayne - Good point about mutually exclusive, I'm a fan This post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=113&topic_id=442512 Oats - Good question but fairly generic, re: geript vote Corazon - idk yamato - opens only trolling, but always bad and aids anywaya Risen - flip-flopped on his own opinion immediately. looks good enough I'm talking about this: On February 08 2014 15:44 Risen wrote: I'm more leaning towards Alaka/Cora being scum mates. On February 08 2014 15:45 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Nvm. Seems stupid now that I've aired the thought. Stupid because why would they do that? And not a why would scum do that but then they do it etcetc, just a why would anyone do that and no one is going to put thought into something like that. yes I know some players are missing ^^ | ||
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On February 11 2014 18:51 marvellosity wrote: Well done, you got there eventually. Got where? Not much has changed, I've not wanted to lynch Alakaslam/Kosher the entire game. | ||
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On February 11 2014 18:54 marvellosity wrote: Alright, is your masterplan to keep on pointing out how townies look townie or something? I don't understand, is this a bad thing? | ||
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On February 11 2014 19:01 marvellosity wrote: Never mind. Do we get a vote this phase? Feel free to actually continue your train of thought. Why did you congratulate me on "getting there". | ||
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On February 11 2014 19:24 marvellosity wrote: no, I don't care. And i'm not enjoying this game and you two seem happy to play. ##Vote: marvellosity lol dude. What's wrong with this game? | ||
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##vote marvellosity Do you care enough to answer some questions about how to proceed? The most important one is how strong is your townread on rayn. I'm pretty sure he's town, but you know the guy better than I do, and it'd make my life a lot easier to be certain he's town. | ||
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I've said I don't think Koshi is mafia, while you pointed out something as "Odd", I still get the overall feeling that you also think he's town. Is this correct interpretation/memory of your thoughts? | ||
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On February 11 2014 19:44 Koshi wrote: totes town. Also totes sad with this move by marv. I'm actually sort of okay with it, marv is a better scumplayer than rayn or I so the 0.00001% chance one of us is scum is marv. And marv seems to be genuinely okay with answering questions about his reads, which is great for bouncing ideas. Btw we're down to nine people then (me, cora, marv, rayn, koshi are town). need to figure out how to eliminate more. Let's discuss Risen next. Kosher please feel free to join in as much as you can. | ||
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On February 08 2014 15:44 Risen wrote: I'm more leaning towards Alaka/Cora being scum mates. On February 08 2014 15:45 Risen wrote: EBWOP: Nvm. Seems stupid now that I've aired the thought. Stupid because why would they do that? And not a why would scum do that but then they do it etcetc, just a why would anyone do that and no one is going to put thought into something like that. It just seems like a genuine thought process, a hastily voiced opinion then retracted. I mean it could be fabricated but at face value it looks pretty good. On February 09 2014 06:05 Risen wrote: Why? This post is decidedly null. ##vote: Corazon Should throw this in now since plurality. He's the one guy aside from geript who responded to my "who thinks he's obvious town" question. I did not get the impression Risen was trolling and because it matched with my thoughts on him at the time (towny) I agreed it was a good call to make. In addition he made this post, which I thought was a great question: On February 09 2014 06:05 Risen wrote: Why? This post is decidedly null. ##vote: Corazon Should throw this in now since plurality. The only problem here is that he actually ended up going for Cora instead of helping me go after geript harder. On February 09 2014 18:03 Risen wrote: Drunk risen says yamato scum and I don't remember why. Am I alone? I liked this post, drunk posting is a towntell. On February 11 2014 03:39 Risen wrote: I'm guessing a setup nomination to get rid of me. Completely nonsensical people being put up. On top of this, if WoS/Palmar are scum I'm screwed since I've given them hall passes on buddying me in an attempt to not be uber paranoid. Something that hurts: Rayn the Relentless hasn't said as many nice things about me as usual this game :/ <3 This looks kinda good too, it's just a lot of observations he doesn't have to make. I don't know, I still think Risen is kinda towny. But I'd love some input from other people. | ||
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On February 11 2014 04:32 Risen wrote: "Palmar's stance on Cora is fishy because he literally says "I would lynch again knowing he's town"." What's scummy about saying that? I'm saying it's a stretch to call that scummy. Looks like you're grasping for something that isn't there. Looks like you're trying to be in the thread without doing anything. But I mean from my point of view his opinions are entirely correct. | ||
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Let's move on to Oatsmaster. | ||
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On February 11 2014 19:58 marvellosity wrote: maybe. I'm suddenly having doubts because Risen is usually incapable of being sensible as town. we'll just assume that he's town until the rest of the people look more towny than him, I guess. I have a feeling we'll find plenty of people more scummy than him. | ||
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On February 08 2014 11:32 Oatsmaster wrote: What are you hoping your vote will achieve geript? No one is gonna lynch va just because of that. Its not useful to discuss the nomination mechanic now so dont Here's something forgot, his initial read on marv was actually town: On February 09 2014 14:57 Oatsmaster wrote: I would lynch cora and rayn right now. Marv getting into stupid shitfests probably means he is town. How come nobody thinks im scum??? He also cared disproportionally much about Vayne's observation about lynching people who were being useless. Here's something: On February 09 2014 18:34 Oatsmaster wrote: why do I get bad feels from VE. suspicion, nothing behind it. He threw another one like this at rayn too. I'm not sure if he ever mentioned it being strategy. His case on marv is an omgus case, but I didn't hold it against him because I did not think marv's case was particularly convincing. By the looks of it, on day 1 oats wanted to kill/was suspicious of Koshi/marv/rayn/VE/Cora/WoS and today he's thrown out a want to lynch on yamato too. I don't know his reads are highly inconsistent. I'm unsure, as some of the things he says make sense, but he's just so all over the place with no direction and generally seems okay with having no influence. maybe he's scum... | ||
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I feel that group has more than one dude of red. | ||
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I think VE is scum, I don't think VA is, but people keep telling me that what I'm taking for just a lazy/goofy player is actually something he does for meta and might mean he's scum. | ||
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On February 11 2014 20:30 marvellosity wrote: I can't rationalise VA saying what he did as town. It's impossible. He directly contradicted himself. If you can explain how that isn't the case, I'm all ears. I can't, I just read it intently, just went back and read the exchange. Also I noticed VE in that conversation "Them feels when your strongest scumread agrees with you". I had no idea VA was VE's strongest scumread, time to look at VE more. And I agree it's really bad. | ||
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@marv trying to draw this picture of the game would you say VA is your no1 scumread? | ||
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On February 11 2014 20:40 marvellosity wrote: I'm so mad that Cora didn't rage :p I thought he did, he was really mad at me for some reason. | ||
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I still think geript did the classic rage at me when I pointed out how he fucked up, and then disappeared into the shadows at first chance. His vote on day1 was a dead vote. It's not worth much, but at least it's something to put a finger on. | ||
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Also I don't know why geript/grack cant be mafia together, I thought that push was clearly half-assed. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:08 Koshi wrote: Palmar, you believe marv is a sincere, genuine and correct townie whos reads you clearly trust. But you want to lynch him? yeah, but the same with reyn, really. As long as marv is okay with dying, and willing to give us all the answers we want from him, I think this is a triple townie setup and one of us has to die. marv is bored so w/e. | ||
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On February 11 2014 22:57 marvellosity wrote: yeah, Grack doesn't have to be mafia at all, but he might be. Useful conclusion that one :D It wasn't a conclusion, it was a clarification that my scenario did not mean I had a scumread on grack and was justifying it, just noting the possibility. | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:08 marvellosity wrote: Oh btw Palmar, I was referring to my own conclusion there, not yours. Right ok, my bad. | ||
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On February 08 2014 11:24 yamato77 wrote: If you're going to complain about unreadables, you should be looking at Risen/Oats No idea why he felt the need to make sure obvious joke was obvious, but I'm not sure it's got much to do with his alignment. On February 08 2014 15:15 yamato77 wrote: In case it isn't clear, I'm being sarcastic. There are several jabs at Risen in yamato's filter: On February 09 2014 18:10 yamato77 wrote: Nothing new, you haven't had a reason for calling someone mafia the whole game. And it's pretty clear that his day 1 target was Corazon. wow... gonna stop this post, write a new one. Yamato is scum. | ||
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Early game yamato makes sure VA isn't pulling in random votes. On February 08 2014 11:21 yamato77 wrote: Vayne hasn't been an unreadable troll for quite a few games now. What about Slam's post makes you so upset? yamato's stance on VA is extremely weak On February 09 2014 18:50 yamato77 wrote: I could lynch Vayne just fine, but I would prefer it if everyone didn't just sit idly by and let most of the thread do basically nothing. Defaulting to lynching Vayne would be a fine thing to do at the end of D1, but it would be much better if we put pressure on other players first. Remember I was struggling with the same thing and I actually said I'd not want him lynch. Yamato on the other hand is doing the whole "shift attention without defending" thing. And then there's this: On February 10 2014 05:32 yamato77 wrote: You're not exactly my first choice, but you're definitely in my pool of lynchable players. Don't worry, Cora doesn't seem to want to try, so it's unlikely I'll find a good enough reason to switch off him. I have no idea why Risen is in this pool, and why he does this whole pool thing without ever actively pushing VA. In fact he has done nothing to help build a case, or give any reasons ever for his suspicion on VA besides saying he's on the "Koshi side" of that argument. I think it's very likely that yamato is scum. He's done nothing, he's been content doing nothing. Also there's the implicit evidence, we've basically "cleared" five people on Cora's lynch. The only remaining players are yamato and holyflare. I think it's unlikely it was an all-town lynch. | ||
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I guess we stick with the lynch VA strategy. | ||
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gimme list pls. | ||
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On February 11 2014 23:56 marvellosity wrote: I guess I should really get around to looking at geript before deadline. we have plenty of time right? or is this phase shorter? | ||
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Town -> Scum Corazon Palmar marvellosity raynpelikoneet Koshi Risen WaveofShadow Holyflare Grackaroni yamato77 Oatsmaster VisceraEyes geript VayneAuthority | ||
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what a dick. | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar talk to me, why am I scummy aside from activity? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20771172 | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:20 Oatsmaster wrote: lol thanks for summarizing my filter Palmar, how useful. Do you have any specific questions? Why are you so directionless. day 1 you wanted to lynch/were suspicious of the following players: Koshi/marv/rayn/VE/Cora/WoS today you want to lynch/are suspicious of VA/yamato/VE with one ore from Grack/HF/WoS/geript (3 out of those 4 you have not mentioned before) Like that's just about everyone in the game. | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:00 VisceraEyes wrote: It was suboptimal. If there's a townie-looking mafia then they'll probably be in the first nomination. That was a misplay on our part in the first one. Wasn't the first one the one where I went "fuck it, we're all town, just lynch me"? | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:04 marvellosity wrote: btw, Risen, what you describe as a "circle-jerk" is in fact "people trying to figure out and solve the game" Try it sometime <3 I agree, circle-jerk is the hands on penis thing, we're doing the mafia thing. | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:14 Risen wrote: Marv why don't you pay LoL? Because it's an aids game. | ||
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On February 12 2014 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: But that would probably make geript town so i dunno what the fuck to do again.. Why? | ||
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On February 12 2014 00:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not sure how this is bad though. Like my reads change as the game goes on. I did push cora for a significant portion of day 1 so I dont see how I was directionless. I agree that reads change, but you have done very little explanation of any of your changes of heart and thus it's really hard to follow your logic, it just looks like you're randomly lashing out everywhere. Also I find it hard to believe you dump your own reads so easily (notice how I'm still on the risen town, wos town, ve scum, geript scum thing I started in day 1). It's generally a very hard thing to do to backtrack on your reads like you're doing as it means you have to re-read or get convinced you should, you on the other hand switch reads in a heartbeat. | ||
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On February 12 2014 06:28 VayneAuthority wrote: nah I contradict myself all the time as either alignment since I don't read over my posts at all I just type stuff. So there is nothing to explain really well which one is it? | ||
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On February 12 2014 07:15 Holyflare wrote: palmar - inquisitive, generally good questions, denies chatting to some people if he thinks they are scum though, Did I? When? On February 12 2014 07:15 Holyflare wrote: had a questionable stance on cora but voted him anyway but when questioned came with a thought process that made sense and aligned with what i found out about him when looking at previous games Now I may be terrible at meta-ing myself, but I thought I explicitly stated my thought process was different from previous games, VE noted as much. | ||
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On February 12 2014 08:12 VayneAuthority wrote: ##vote: Palmar Hallo Respond pls | ||
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On February 12 2014 08:39 VayneAuthority wrote: I like yu the most so im helping you die the most i maked QUESTION. you must answer | ||
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Guess I'm floridian | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:18 VayneAuthority wrote: what was the question? stopped reading the thread after there was 200 posts about me being scum and nothing else. You said you contradicted yourself often. So I wanted you to clarify, which of the two stances is your actual thoughts, or was your actual thoughts at the time. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:18 marvellosity wrote: If I wanted you killed I'd just have you lynched. Jeez  I know, but plotting is just so much more fun. | ||
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Don't get all pissy about it, that just makes me think you're scum because it's easier to rage and leave than to actually contribute. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: both were my real thoughts at the time or else I wouldnt have posted it The only way this nomination makes sense is if they plan to win a perfect game because options will tend to thin out fairly quickly. They will just haev to keep adding 1 person to the "nomination lynch" and we will slowly clamp them. No you seemed convinced there was one mafia in the three of us, in which case we're basically fucked. Does that no longer apply? Now you seem to be implying that the two survivors of this lynch will be town, which contradicts your earlier statement that this was a 1-scum nomination. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't say smart shit, I say stupid shit because I'm fucking stupid Palmar. Since when have you EVER expected me to say smart shit? You've been useful in the past! And now that you basically know I'm town, it should make the game much easier for you as you generally love tunneling me (and tbh, I tunnel you right back a bit). | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:23 VayneAuthority wrote: Because both options are asinine so I keep flip flopping. So what do you think right now. Is there a scum in the pool of people getting lynched? yes/no | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:25 marvellosity wrote: What really sucks from my perspective is at this point of the game I'm still pretty lost. A whole tonne of people could be mafia but they could also still be town. A lot of stuff got discussed today but the net result of it is that the people i already thought were town I continued to think were town, and the people I think/thought were mafia could still be mafia but I still don't really know. Finding it almost impossible to pick out any sensible 4 man team. geript, wave, wos, va, oats, grack... could be any of them, and probably mafia outside these names too, and I just don't know. Sucks. yes. Sadly there is a bunch of townies that are doing their best not to win the game. It should only take 2 or so to step up for the game to get much easier. | ||
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And then there's the people that are just not playing like geript and VA | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:28 VayneAuthority wrote: holyflare is mafia 100% that will be my best contribution to this game. Why don't you write long concise posts that explain your exact thought process from one post to another as you were being put under pressure by marv, also that thing from day 1. That would be an amazing contribution. If you're actually town and manage to not get mislynched, that's ten times more valuable than throwing out a random name with no reasoning and calling him scum. In fact, that's worthless. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:29 marvellosity wrote: guaranteed. quite possibly even 2. shrug. yeah meant to write at least. | ||
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Looks like people have forgotten the whole "the worst player in the game gets lynched every cycle". You can't blame town, you can only blame your own inability to convince them. | ||
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and yes marv, including the vote-count-mess from the host this would indeed be the best play ever. | ||
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##Vote VayneAuthority Until you come up with a satisfactory explanation of your entire game, along with cases on your top scumreads. I see no reason to keep you alive. | ||
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On February 12 2014 17:23 Keirathi wrote: @yamato: Meh. You were all about getting the credit for the lynch, then and basically told everyone to fuck off. How the fuck is that a townie mindset? I'm not going to go back to verify what you're claiming is true here Keirath, but I don't see how that is mafia mindset either. Assuming your premise is true, that yamato initially wanted credit for the lynch, and then blamed cora, why would mafia do that? Mafia already knows there is no credit to be taken from the lynch, right? So why would scumyamato want credit. | ||
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On February 12 2014 19:24 marvellosity wrote: Palmar, do you still think Wave's posting is reasonable? I never said it was reasonable there is a reason I ignore him. I said the sheer amount made me think he was probably town. Sheer amount seems to have fallen off a bit, now I need to go back and read what he actually said. I don't want to lynch him today over VA (note I'm 2 pages behind in the thread, maybe VA came in strong). | ||
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On February 12 2014 10:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv why don't you talk to me a little bit about Yamato. I raised a couple of points earlier that gosh, I'd REALLY like your input on, but you're too busy browbeating me for being frustrated that NO ONE IS EVEN TRYING TO SEE MY CONTRIBUTIONS. I decided to see if the bolded part is actually true. I did not find an actual case or anything, but I myself tend to prefer the shorter more concise points, so I can't hold it against VE. So I went on a wonderful journey reading through VE's filter. I did not find these points. What I found are generic statements about yamato, without any explanation at all on WHY these points were important. On February 12 2014 03:19 VisceraEyes wrote: I for one find this post ironic and would like everyone to reflect on its significance. And again here, he says the filter is short, but yamato announced he'd not be available for posting much, so there is lacking a why here again. On February 12 2014 03:22 VisceraEyes wrote: It helps if you get a feel for his play this game by opening his filter and reading his posts. It doesn't take long, A) there aren't very many and B) the majority of them are very short. I could not find anything else in VE's recent filter (I admit I did not look back at day 1) that said anything of any substance about yamato. I don't think he even discussed my case that yamato then explained. It's a completely effortless push and there is a big theme of VE just saying things instead of explaining things. In fact, here is a random collection of unexplained VE reads. I did not find any explained reads since the nightphase (when mafia is picking nomination targets). + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2014 08:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I'm suspicious of yamato, why do my posts about him not count as anything Rayn? Why are the nominees the only ones whose contributions count? Bullshit. On February 12 2014 01:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Wasn't Holy Mafia in Shadow? And wasn't his MO "Fuck off and come back with huge paragraph posts"? I could lynch Holy too probably. On February 12 2014 01:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Oats/geript/Vayne/yamato is a fine scumteam. On February 12 2014 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote: OH YEAH KOSHI. Oats/geript/Vayne/Koshi. ftw. On February 12 2014 00:38 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm liking Vayne for scum, and if I could read Grack I would probably give him a scumread for this game...but I can't read Grack. On February 11 2014 11:05 VisceraEyes wrote: To be fair, I also had suspicions of Koshi independent of yours Wave. Just sayin. To be completely fair, VE did make one good case, that was during the night and on me. He explained why he thought I was scum (something he hasn't done about anyone since), and made a correct observation. Since then he has reasonably cleared me, but nothing but some random rage has replaced it. I don't know, maybe people would talk to you VE if you actually said something. The irony is that VE is not a fan of his own style this game: On February 12 2014 00:53 VisceraEyes wrote: K marv. Don't explain why or anything, just state it casually. | ||
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It's not end-all damning, but I feel it's good grounds for evaluating him. We should have plenty of time for discussion anyway as VA doesn't seem like he's going to actually play the game. so there's like 3 phases until the next town-controlled lynch is up. I just like pointing things out. Hell, if VE is somehow town, this might help whip him into shape. | ||
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On February 12 2014 23:16 marvellosity wrote: I just don't find it that telling for his alignment. Don't ask me what I do find telling though, because I couldn't qualify that to you very well. I don't even know what you think his alignment is. I for a moment there thought his rage was genuine which is why decided to actually look at the yamato points, which then led to me noticing he hadn't actually said anything so now I'm a bit "hurr hurr, maybe red?" | ||
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I mean the entire reason I read his shit is because I was starting to think there was a chance he was town. I just did not like what I found, but if you say that's not alignment indicative, I'm in no rush to condemn the guy. | ||
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But he isn't  | ||
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Which might happen next cycle, I see no reason for mafia to not just put up me/marv/whoevertheythinkisthemosttowny | ||
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There is literally no reason for mafia to put up mafia on the nomination lynch, as even if they do a double whammy and put up two or even three of their own, they're not going to get any town cred for it, as it is literally stupid not to put me and marv up, and thus any nomination without me and marv should be viewed with extreme suspicion. So the mafia will basically use the third spot on nomination lynches as their night-kill for the rest of the game. | ||
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On February 13 2014 00:27 marvellosity wrote: I expect one of us to die to that special night-shot they have anyway. oh right. Well kosher? will probably take a place on that lynch, but then again, scum might try "scum + scumtowny" with 2 spots open. Might even not nominate 3 other people then. Whatever. | ||
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On February 13 2014 00:57 Oatsmaster wrote: dota is really interesting guys. Yeah, it's like league of legends except fun and not retarded. | ||
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On February 13 2014 01:47 marvellosity wrote: explain to me Key words. pls respnond VE I need you friend. | ||
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On February 13 2014 01:57 VisceraEyes wrote: :/ You know that when you're nice to people after being jerky to them for like, ever, that comes across as suspicious right? Like, I'm fighting pretty serious urges right now to tunnel you for being so reasonable with me after my play this game. I'm never mean to you unless you're scum or I'm scum or you're wrong or you're right and I'm scum. | ||
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On February 13 2014 05:44 marvellosity wrote: meh. I could lynch not-VA I guess. Maybe one of Holy/Keirathi. I'd like Palmar to come say things, I'm kinda busy this evening. I share exactly the same thoughts. I remember thinking when Keirathi joined the game that his initial case was very much not believable, it just felt like a forced entry and I had a rough time believing he had read the entire game, and came way with such a strong opinion on someone. I still don't mind killing VA, his effort level seems to be way too little for someone that doesn't like being mislynched (according to someone in the thread). Holyflare hasn't done jack shit in this game and is probably mafia. I don't care. I could switch | ||
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##vote keirathi when in doubt follow your heart | ||
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I say we kill one of the former two, it's just that much more fun. | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:07 Holyflare wrote: don't do a day 1 all over again... explain your shit | ||
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there's 3-4 mafia in va, holy, keir, ve, wos and oats Sure I could be wrong a bit, but I feel this is a good split. Also, read back a bit (just real quick) about holy, and now I feel better about him being scum than VA ##Unvote ##Vote Holyflare | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:13 Holyflare wrote: and here we go again, the unexplained reads -.- at least I get to join rayn in the graveyard and lol about how wrong people are being I'm fine with it, I announced I was terrible at mafia on day 1 and was expecting to be carried. | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:15 Holyflare wrote: He can do that as scum and that's a terrible reason, is NOBODY reading what I write? maybe you should stop speaking scumglish instead of english ooOOOHHH burn | ||
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I got your back bro | ||
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http://www.rodong.rep.kp/en/index.php?strPageID=SF01_02_01&newsID=2014-02-10-0029&chAction=T | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:19 Holyflare wrote: the only wrekt is when I flip town and 2/2 of my scum reads are correct :o So... you're saying you're awful town? Being right is like the least useful skill in mafia. People keep harping on "I was right but town was shit" but in reality if you can't avoid getting lynched as town, no matter how right you are, you're worthless to the team. If all townies can avoid getting lynched, game is ez, so don't be the worst player, don't get lynched! | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:23 Holyflare wrote: No, I gave concrete reasons behind a scum motive that nobody read and then people come along and say "he town" despite all the work I put into doing it and the overwhelming evidence and rather than discuss the first incentive is to lynch me then that is frustrating and the reason I quit playing vengeful too by town being shit and not explaining reads they give and just saying "he totes town". Clearly you're not using the correct logic to appeal to these particular towns. It's on you to change your approach until you fit your argument to the audience. You wouldn't hand a three year old kid a scientific study on the benefits of good night's sleep to explain why he/she should go to bed. Tailor your message to your crowd. There is no such thing as bad towns, only people who can't adapt to them. | ||
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help pls | ||
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Next time, play all the days of a game. | ||
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If you know someone is scum, and marv thinks VA is scum, marv gets his target lynched and you don't, even if marv is wrong, marv played better than you, because you did nothing. It's equally useless to have good reads and no ability to convey your thoughts to the town, as it is to have bad reads. | ||
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I'm not "good" because I was right on day 1 and tried to push it, I'm awful for allowing people to win my arguments using flawed reasoning. (flawed by definition as Cora was town). | ||
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Play more on day 1 next time pls. | ||
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On February 14 2014 00:09 Holyflare wrote: boring = scum? This game is boring, analysis of afk players is boring, you are being boring. I can't play more than I have free time so no thanks. My day 1's are usually full of posts and I've just told you to look at my filters to prove that but you can't be fucked. Why even continue posting if all you're going to say is useless shit? I don't trust meta. I'm not going back to read some dumb game I wasn't a part of and have no context to read it in just to try to figure out if you're scum or not. | ||
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On February 14 2014 00:15 Holyflare wrote: people do read it because it is generally correct, I catch scum almost 80%+ of the time, vengeful was the only exception in a long time Nice going this game buddy, Cora guaranteed scum. | ||
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On February 14 2014 00:16 Holyflare wrote: sorry that I can't live up to your terrible day 2 onwards game because I actually enjoy analysing Sure, you enjoy analysing, some people enjoy lurking, some people enjoy ms-painting. What all of the above have in common is that they have nothing to do with winning mafia games. Hell, you almost got owned yesterday except that VA is even worse than you. | ||
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On February 14 2014 00:16 Holyflare wrote: 80% is 100% now? Even your glorious sheep lord marv was wrong. I don't sheep a marv. I figured killing you would be way more fun. | ||
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If the alternative was killing someone that ISN'T holyflare, I'd be saying he's almost certainly town now. However, if I would've said that, I probably couldn't have riled him up as much as I did. His rage feels genuine, but it's possible that it stems from him being scum and being mad that people want to lynch him. If he got this mad about not being listened to without being in danger, I would give more townie points for that. In any case, I am going to ignore the possibility that this is mafia-rage and since it feels genuine and not forced, and is actually based on the content of the game (as opposed to VE/geript rage), I have no interest in lynching holyflare tomorrow. | ||
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I may have given scumflare an excuse to just not play the game, but whatever, I don't have many tricks left. I told all of you I was hoping that you'd be better at this than me now. | ||
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##Vote Grackaroni If Koshi is scum this game was pretty much over anyway. I might backtrack and actually just lynch Koshi for the lulz, but I had a townread on him and while I'm pretty sure Grack is town too, lynching Grack sounds easier as then I don't have to read his filter. | ||
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Please all find a way to get killed so I can win this game. | ||
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On February 14 2014 19:00 Koshi wrote: Holyflare probably isn't or scum didn't bother at all to warn him he was being lynched. I'm dumb and lazy, please elaborate (not that I sorta agree holyflare might not be scum). | ||
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Why are there almost no scum on Holyflare's wagon. By my initial count there are 1 scum at least and probably more on VA. If we lynch holyflare and holyflare is town in that situation, mafia autowins with a VA lynch the day after. Now I think holy is scum again. | ||
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On February 14 2014 20:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Nah palmar, looks like only 2 scum max including holyflare were on VA. But only 1 scum highly likely on Holyflare. Thats really really weird. Maybe scum didnt care who got lynched because VA mightve started playing the game, I dunno. It looks like holyflare is town actually because scum wouldve tried harder to lynch VA when holyflare started coming up as a lynch target. This is correct. | ||
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On February 14 2014 22:54 Grackaroni wrote: Your guess is as good as mine. Everyone just rally around that Palmar guy. Any townie that votes on their own can potentially cost us the game to a last second switch. Obviously this is our best and only strategy. | ||
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But it's also very strange that no one seemed to mind HF dying too much. | ||
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On February 14 2014 23:20 Grackaroni wrote: I think it was this quote that did it. Did what? | ||
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On February 14 2014 23:16 Oatsmaster wrote: lynch keirathi. Nah I was more talking about why the scumteam let us get so close to lynching holyflare when its SO EASY to just all the dudes jump on VA and murder his face. Lately I've been leaning very much towards lynching WoS first. He was very active and seemed to care a lot in the early game, but as soon as the game went downhill for town he decided his work was done and fucked off. | ||
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On February 14 2014 23:27 Grackaroni wrote: And then that Yamato guy! He's been working awfully hard lately. It's almost as if he's done absolutely nothing all game long. Yes, only reason I'm not on yamato's ass is I know how awful he can be when he's town, so this is not entirely out of character. | ||
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On February 14 2014 23:33 Oatsmaster wrote: GETTING AN AWARD? SURELY NOBODY IS THINKING ABOUT THAT!! Keirathi doesnt like playing scum right? I could see him lurking the shit out of this game especially if his team is winning by so much. Keirathi is a bit useless but at least he's done _something_ in the last days. WoS is off the map. Sure he may be busy but his early game feels a bit all over the place. | ||
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On February 14 2014 23:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck all of you. Try going to school and having a 14 month old child with 101 degree fever If you're doing this on purpose to make me rage like palmar then be fucking ashamed of yourselves. Been there, done that. Not making you rage. I just feel what little you contribute has almost no value. Your whole attitude feels very much off. | ||
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But then again, it's not exclusively a mafia thing to not muster up the energy to play when you're already dealing with things. Townies can do it as well. But I mean it doesn't make the game easier. Hence why I like vigilante games, it's just so nice to be able to shoot a bit into the pool of afk people. This is also why vigis really should clear out lurkers. It's fine to scumhunt in the lurker-tier, but shooting active/scummy people is generally very bad. Although this seal-posting thing that seems to be a thing now maybe means we need more vigis. | ||
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On February 15 2014 00:06 Oatsmaster wrote: well mainly because WoS is just saying he shouldnt get lynched for his inactivity but its fine if we lynch him for other stuff. Also the martyring, holyflare never martyered Also he hasnt put any useful input into the game in his 7-8 posts unlike holyflare from what i remember. I don't think martyring is particularly telling one way or the other. But the difference is that holyflare was raging about in-game stuff, ie: he was mad that he wasn't being listened to. WoS is just mad that people are calling him scum. I don't know this game hard. | ||
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On February 10 2014 22:39 Koshi wrote: Meh I am looking over the playerlist and I still have a good amount of townreads and then some people that I know I will have an easier time to read when game progresses. Looks like this is a pretty hard game for mafia to win, just got to keep to spirit up as town after seeing townflips in nomination day. New list of mafia: VA (wishful thinking) Grack (Let's see if he keeps calling me town) Palmar (thread sentiment) rayn (tradition) | ||
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On February 15 2014 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not mad about being called scum I'm mad that peole think my aflking means I'm scum. Bbl your afk-ing means it's impossible to read you. It's clear that some of the afk-ers are scum. Risen, holy, VE, ger/keir, you, yam koshi have all been very much inactive, and since Grack and I are basically clear, there's at least 3 people that have had massive bouts of AFK and are scum. So afk = scum. problem is some of the afk players are town too. | ||
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On February 15 2014 00:32 Oatsmaster wrote: How about I claim cop Palmar? Would that clear me? It'd help! | ||
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#yolo ##Vote Keirathi | ||
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If Keirathi is scum I would not expect mafia to try to defend him. They will have another shot at lylo tomorrow with a far muddier picture. Would you expect them to defend him? I sort of anticipated him falling over regardless of alignment. That being said, I still think the rage by geript on day 1 was forced, I still think the points I brought up against him were valid. I still think he left the thread as soon as he had the opportunity to (IE wasn't being lynched anymore). I don't think geript contributed anything from raging at me until he quit the game, I think Keirathi's entrance was extremely unnatural. It just feels really off to open with a case having never even interacted with the person accused, I don't think his posting has been particularly good ever since, especially notable is that I _feel_ he's not particularly interested in engaging in conversation. So yeah, it's super tempting to go after VE instead, he's almost 100% scum based on doing absolutely shit-balls nothing this game, remember my point earlier about how he asked marv for explanations and just kept throwing out random reads with nothing behind them himself. He hasn't explained anything in a long time and is getting away with it. But yeah, marv thought VE was town, so whatever. Keirathi it is today. If he flips town I'm just going to blame marv, that sounds like a good idea. | ||
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On February 16 2014 02:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Is anyone willing to consider Palmar for scum? His saying that I'm gloating I'm trying not to take as a scumclaim, but others should chime in on the subject. pls don't troll | ||
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On February 16 2014 13:54 Risen wrote: Just don't like your posting compared to town you I've seen. Not much to prove, there's three people who are not going to be convinced no matter what, I would have to convince every town player. I'd rather play to my meta of not caring so when I flip town future games will be able to use this as a reference. you should be lynched and then banned for that last sentence. | ||
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On February 17 2014 05:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Keir mentioned you as a scum suspect but never pushed it or discussed it at all. Just throws you in as a secondary candidate to me. As I said earlier, I'm not going to consider any such associative evidence. Everyone has said everyone is scum. | ||
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I don't care about winning or losing, it's about sending a message. | ||
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On February 17 2014 10:19 Risen wrote: Hmm... VE is so obviously the lynch followed by the people he was lining up against (yamato/me). I think we're being set up. I know I am. I think we lynch palmar here on the off chance. Every one of those people is as conf town as it gets, though. Assuming ve is town I can't support his lynch because he's the driving force behind this game. There is no off-chance. Do you remember who we lynched last cycle? Do you? That guy I tried to get lynched on day 1. Too bad people didn't listen to me at the time. On February 17 2014 10:19 Risen wrote: Palmar hasn't used his conf town status like he should have this game so I think he's the lynch. There's been two town-controlled lynches since I became basically confirmed town. One of them I mostly let marv lead on VA, and the other one was my lynch of choice. Tomorrow we're again going to lynch the person I want to lynch. | ||
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On February 17 2014 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Why does Palmar vote VE over Grack in this situation? VE is clearly invested in trying to win while Grack is not...if he is town and doesn't care why not vote himself? Too many trolls. Not trolling. We fucked up, and I take some responsibility although I didn't fuck up. Lynching Koshi over Grack was the wrong play. There were some townies who trusted a random town-read better than the solid one we had on Koshi. I should have yelled but whatever. We're not lynching Grack, we're lynching you, and you should be happy about it. Because town decided Grack wasn't scum in the triple lynch with Koshi and I, we've basically commited to him being town. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. Any townies who voted for him (hell, mafia keirathi was with me on Grack) basically threw this if Grack is scum. But Grack isn't necessarily scum, he may well be town, in fact I'm leaning town on him, so the game isn't over. Today, you explain in detail every single one of your reads, and then you die. That way I can use those reads to help me end the game, instead of having to spend half the rest of it worrying about where the fuck you were in the early game. I have a rule, and I think you know this rule, "Don't trust anything said in lylo". Sadly you didn't start playing the game until lylo so what can you do. Nothing you say will ever be able to make up for your early game. However, help me figure out what to do in the next days, flip town, and you'll be a bloody hero. But no, we're lynching you. It would be insane not to do so. | ||
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You do more good dead than alive VE. You know I'm not scum if you're town, because you know I could've decided to lead a lynch on you and ended the game (assuming I'm scum and you're town) instead of Keirathi. I didn't. So you know I'm not talking out of my ass here. You also know me well enough that I'm not lying when I say nothing you say from here on out is going to change my lingering suspicions of you from early game. Remember this? Now I may be bad at mafia, in fact I'm really sad I'm not being carried by some town circle. I said in the beginning of the game I was expecting everyone to be better than me now. But that's the way it is. I'm not lying when I say I need you to die more than I need you to stay alive. You could well be town, but I can't trust anything you say until you flip. So please just flip . I see no reason for you to not put all your focus today in scumhunting, and then leaving us with a good, strong filter with what to do tomorrow. I may be trolling during the long stretches of downtime this game has, but I'm not trolling when I say I'm really unsure about my next move. Confirmed town VE opinion could help decide that. Unflipped VE is just going to make me want to lynch him. If you're town, I'm not doing this because I'm a dick, I'm doing this because I cannot clear you. Feel free to call me bad for not being able to, but you also know I'm not lying. So if I'm bad, help me deal with it. pls die | ||
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On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote: I don't get it??? You're blaming us for losing if grack is scum? Not blaming anyone really but myself. Remember, my views apply to myself too. If grack is scum and koshi got lynched over him, it doesn't matter that I wanted to lynch Grack. It just means that I allowed people to out-argue me with bad reasons. My bad. It's never the town, it's always you. On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote: and you want VE's reads so that if he flips town you can do what..? we're right back in lylo again if he flips town. What does ve flipping have anything to do with our lylo situation? I value VE's opinions when he's town. We're right back in lylo if anyone of us flips town, VE flipping town has nothing to do with our lylo situation and I didn't say it had. I want his reads so I can have trusted town-perspective reads from someone I think is quite good at mafia to hold my hand as I continue playing this game. On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote: Why is it that every nomination you say that most likely everyone in the nominations are town but this one specifically you bring up how we are "bad" for not lynching grack who could be scum when you didn't mention that at all last nomination and why does VE need to flip, for what reason? I did not call anyone bad, so why are you quoting it as if it's a direct quote? I said it was the wrong play, and I still think it was, Grack was being more active in the thread, but the town-read on koshi was stronger, including that marv guarantee. Did you not read any of my above posts. VE needs to flip because I cannot trust he's town, ever. On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote: This is the first time you really talk about the potential for grack being scum. Maybe if you didn't try and troll me 2 days ago and discussed this the game could be a lot easier. I don't think Grack is scum. I mentioned that there is a chance, I can be wrong. But I don't think he is, hence why I didn't argue loudly when we lynched Koshi over him. I think Grack is town. That doesn't mean I think he's right, but I think he's town. I don't see how the game would have been easier if I hadn't tried to troll. Everything said in lylo is worthless. Maybe you should've played the game before that? We had a good discussion during night 1? Yes. Sorry about that. This game is sorta hard for me because I know I will need to lynch 4 mafia correctly in a row to win it. And I know it's always going to have to be my decision. All the pressure is on me and I have no leeway for failure. I have been doing my best to read, but not bothered to comment much. Remember I value things said in lylo very little. I understand not everyone agrees with that philosophy, but at least knowing that you should be able to understand my perspective. So yeah, I've been a bit mad at this game in general, not at town or anything, just frustrated with the pressure of my situation. It's on no one but me. I'll try to post more. On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote: Grack and you have been in a lot of nominations and people generally assumed that meant you were town, why would scum put VE in the nominations against 2 people that are widely considered town by most people in this thread? I agree, it's unlikely VE is scum. But I'm not scum and I don't think Grack is scum soo.... And we know at least 3 townies voted for Koshi in the grack thing (keirathi was on grack) so it wasn't an all-out scum play. One of us has to die. I think by far the greatest benefit is to have VE die. And I'm really expecting VE to agree and understand my points when he comes back to the thread. | ||
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All townies (that's the people that aren't mafia) need to be on VE, including himself. VE, you need to come back to the thread. | ||
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I would love to be able to trust his reads. Him flipping town would help that greatly | ||
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On February 17 2014 22:21 Holyflare wrote: So everything said in lylo is worthless but you want ve's reads that he'd have said in lylo anyway? Doesn't make any sense. A read is a read, you pick out things that don't add up to being a town mindset and then develop a scum read on them, which is what me and VE were doing the last lylo. How would this be any different? Are you being intentionally thick? The reason everything said in lylo should be ignored is there is no consequence for lying for scum. If their lie/bullshit works, the game is over, no coming back to lynch them when it was obviously bullshit, as the game is over. VE dying changes everything, his reads in lylo if he's town should absolutely be listened to, as he cannot be scum by the time he has flipped. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. On February 17 2014 22:21 Holyflare wrote: Shouldn't we instead of finding out ve's reads be finding our own reads and discussing them? Been quite clear on risen and grack so far and you've had no input into either of them. Grack's town. I'm not discussing lynching him. I will discuss Risen tomorrow. Apparently getting people to lynch VE is going to prove really hard, I have no idea why, as my reasons are very clear. | ||
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On February 17 2014 22:34 Grackaroni wrote: ##Vote: Palmar Are you trolling? | ||
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On February 17 2014 22:56 Holyflare wrote: are you being thick!?!?!? you can literally get called out for lying 24/7 at any point in the game, lylo doesn't change shit about that. You look through a filter and find what people have done in their gameplay the entire game and then tell everybody about it, how is that hard to do and where does lying come into it? Feel free to disagree. I said it was a personal rule, and I've said it in many games multiple times before. That has no effect on the current situation. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:03 VisceraEyes wrote: I've literally never had anyone try and convince me that me dying is the best thing for my team. Ever. Votes on Palmar, he's a lunatic. Please don't talk in absolutes. Let's do this very slowly. Do you think I'm town? | ||
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You _should_ think that there's three townies up for lynch now, so what's the problem? | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:07 VisceraEyes wrote: After you trolling me all yesterday and now you trying to convince me to die for town, no I'm thinking you're probably scum. Are you serious? So do you think I bussed Keirathi instantly on day 1? Are you saying I volunteered to die for marv, knowing marv would instead want to die himself on day 2? Are you saying that I willingly prolonged the game by making keirathi the lynch yesterday? I'm like 90% sure I could've lynched you instead. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:09 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Palmar He's insane. We can't fix him. Fucking kill him. This is called avoiding the subject. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:12 VisceraEyes wrote: But you didn't. You AFK'd while town and scum alike unanimously voted for Keirathi, so you saying you "found" Keirathi is completely meaningless. The whole reason he was under pressure was me constantly bringing him up. Yes I took a break from the game a bit while these meaningless phases were undergoing. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Like if you're town, why were you not concerned about me being on Keirathi? If you're town and afraid that I'm scum, why was there no hesitation on Keirathi at LYLO? You're making shit up, and you're gonna die for it. You're literally putting words in my mouth. There was hesitation, I know you're not reading very attentively but here you go: On February 15 2014 17:13 Palmar wrote: Screw it #yolo ##Vote Keirathi Yolo generally means you're about to do something you might regret. On February 15 2014 17:18 Palmar wrote: I'm basically going to gamble on having been right on day 1. I may not have been, but given how unsure I am it just feels like the right thing to do. As much as I'd love to lynch VE for the sake of lynching VE, let's give this one a shot. Look! more hesitation, more Palmar being unsure! On February 15 2014 18:14 Palmar wrote: Sure it does bother me, but what can you do? If Keirathi is scum I would not expect mafia to try to defend him. They will have another shot at lylo tomorrow with a far muddier picture. Would you expect them to defend him? I sort of anticipated him falling over regardless of alignment. That being said, I still think the rage by geript on day 1 was forced, I still think the points I brought up against him were valid. I still think he left the thread as soon as he had the opportunity to (IE wasn't being lynched anymore). I don't think geript contributed anything from raging at me until he quit the game, I think Keirathi's entrance was extremely unnatural. It just feels really off to open with a case having never even interacted with the person accused, I don't think his posting has been particularly good ever since, especially notable is that I _feel_ he's not particularly interested in engaging in conversation. So yeah, it's super tempting to go after VE instead, he's almost 100% scum based on doing absolutely shit-balls nothing this game, remember my point earlier about how he asked marv for explanations and just kept throwing out random reads with nothing behind them himself. He hasn't explained anything in a long time and is getting away with it. But yeah, marv thought VE was town, so whatever. Keirathi it is today. If he flips town I'm just going to blame marv, that sounds like a good idea. See, me explaining why I'm not worrying about how easy the wagon is. Very much unsure still. On February 16 2014 02:46 Palmar wrote: why are you even posting. This game will probably end tonight with the way it's been going Look! me predicting with my luck I might be wrong and the game will end! | ||
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Unless of course you're actually scum yourself, that would probably explain some things. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Like he says "VE why no okay with dying, see marv and rayn and me all martyr on Nom1?" Marv and rayn wanted to die because they were unsure about the game and weren't having fun playing. I'VE got a good idea about where to go from here, and I'VE been invested in playing the game. WHY would I be okay with dying just so that Palmar, who AFK'd the fuck out of the only cycle we've lynched scum, can clear me? That doesn't make any kind of sense in any fucking realm. Big talk from a guy who didn't play cycles 1-3. There was no reason to discuss anything. Either I was right on keirathi or I wasn't. Do I look afk to you now? And yes, everyone and their mother should have a massive, massive townread on my by now. I am basically confirmed town. Trying to claim otherwise is absolutely insane. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Out of curiosity Palmar, why the sudden urge to live now? I don't get it - why were you okay dying in previous Nominations and not this one? Just roll over bro. Because I thought marv/reyn and grack/koshi are town, although I would've preferred lynching grack in the latter one. I cannot be sure you're town. I want to live because if you happen to be scum (which is actually quite likely, given that you somehow don't have a townread on me by now). | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:29 Holyflare wrote: It's funny how full of crap you are, you aren't doing anything other than making VE annoyed and what benefit does that have to anyone? You think grack is town, VE will get emotional and you'll be all "oh maybe he is town lynch anyway" and you aren't going to lynch yourself so if you actually cared about winning the game you'd realise it was time to stfu now and talk about progressing the next days lynch. I am not trying to annoy him. I asked him in the most pleasing manner I could to provide us with his reads and die. You're making up stuff on the spot here. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Anything you can do to get that scumread Palmar. First it was because I "wasn't playing" even though I was, in fact, playing, now it's because I don't have a townread on you while you're making shit up to try and get me lynched. LOL Just keep reaching bro. The first point still stands. I couldn't "make up" the other part until it became clear that you still think I'm scum. It's not reaching, I've called you out multiple times over the course of the first few days on doing nothing, or very little, and not explaining any of your reads. All these things still stand. Given your recent contributions, you may in fact be town, but I don't think I can ever clear you. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't do "literally nothing". I didn't have firm scumreads, but then NO ONE did, and that was a major reason why people weren't having fun and stumbling over themselves to KILL THEMSELVES. Palmar you're being thick-headed and ignorant. You're using false heuristics and buzz words to try and paint me in a scummy light, and it all stinks of pushing an agenda. You know who else wanted to lynch me Palmar? Keirathi, lynched scum. Went on a fucking TIRADE to do it. I think we just lynch all the people who want to lynch VE and we win. Starting with you. You had no influence in town and you were fine with it. If you think I'm scum I'm by definition not being thick-headed and ignorant, as that would mean I'd know I was being wrong. I think I'm being right. Do you agree with Holyflare that Grack is scum VE? | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:37 Holyflare wrote: HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS BUT THEN NOT WANT TO DISCUSS GRACK WHO DIDNT DO ANYTHING TILL DAY 3 AND EVEN THEN STILL DID NOTHING :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Because I know VE far better than I know Grack. I admit, I am not 100% sure on Grack being town. I think he is, but I can't be sure. There is a reason I voted for him over Koshi, I was more sure Koshi is town. Obviously I'm not going to have the energy to read Grack today, but if we do this correctly and lynch VE today, I will absolutely listen to each and every argument. I'm going to have to anyway. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Let me ask you Palmar: why do you feel like town has a better chance of winning with Grack alive than with me alive assuming we're both town? If you're both town, we're better off with you alive. | ||
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I think there's a 80% chance Grack is town, I value his reads 4 (scale of 1-10). I think there's a 60% chance you're town, I value your reads 8 (scale 1-10). From my point of view it's far better to confirm you, and get good reads, than to confirm grack and get bad reads, on the guy who I had less scumspicion on in the first place. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:43 Risen wrote: Lol. That five forty tho I want grack lynched so people will listen to him about hf if he's town. I support this. We could do this, I might consider lynching Grack if HF agrees that we auto-lynch him if Grack flips town. Does that sound good HF? | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:45 VisceraEyes wrote: PALMAR DIES TODAY. NO ONE VOTES ANYONE BUT PALMAR OR CLAIMS FUCKING SCUM. Why? there is literally no reason for townies to vote for me, given what has gone on so far in this game. You're just yelling in hopes of people listening to that instead of thinking... | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually, belay that. I'm just gonna fuck off for a little bit and come back later. Maybe then I won't be furious and saying things I may or may not actually mean. Why are you so mad? I asked you really nicely! I've given great respect to your play in mafia. I have no idea why you're raging. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:48 Holyflare wrote: like what the hell kind of question was that lol?? I was just gauging how confident you felt in your scumread on Grack. Not much to it really. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:54 Holyflare wrote: I don't get it, if i'm wrong I'm wrong, I've stated why I THINK Grack is scum and nobody has even commented on anything i've posted other than grack himself but suddenly it's auto-lynch if wrong and then that would just be a lost game. Is this a newbie game or what? I want to discuss it like normal people and I've asked so many times to discuss and only VE has done it and we only got so far as risen yesterday. Yet now you're making lynch plans on who we are lynching and in what order instead of why we should be lynching these people? We can only lynch one person per day. Since you brought up your points about Grack we haven't had a good day to discuss lynching him on. We agree that it's a shame he didn't get lynched on the Koshi lynch day. It's possible today is that day, but the problem is that VE is who he's up against. I wish I could just have a townread on VE, but I simply don't. I am more than willing to listen to a Grack lynch theory tomorrow, especially if VE finds time to read up on Grack before he dies tonight and reaches the same conclusion you do. As I already stated, my question was intended to figure out how you felt about your read (I've even done it myself "I know this guy is scum, lynch him and you can lynch me if I'm wrong"). Maybe that's not how you play, but I don't know you very well. | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:50 VisceraEyes wrote: You want to kill me off so that you can "trust my reads" while you're sitting here developing your own picture of how the lynches are going to go later. You don't give a shit about my reads. You're just blowing smoke up my ass so that I'm like "Oh well if Palmar thinks I'm town then it's okay for me to die. Herp derp." Why do you assume I'm lying. I'm begging you to work with me. I have no idea why you are so against it. Hell if you can prove to me Grack is scum, I'll lynch him today, but then you'd also have to explain why you didn't just vote him last nomination lynch over Koshi. I really, really want to know who you think is scum, and why. Can you please do this for me? | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:01 Risen wrote: "I am more than willing to listen to a Grack lynch theory tomorrow" Wtf palmar? You'd waste the fucking lylo lynch on someone you could safely lynch in the next nomination cycle? Are you dense? If I think he has the highest chance of flipping scum, sure. I always lynch the guy I think will flip scum, especially in lylo. | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I've gone on and on about why I think yamato and Risen are scum. If you're at all interested in my reads you would know this. I'm afk until after this farce is over. That's 2/3, and apparently I'm scum too. Do you still think Risen is scum given his contributions in this last page? I agree with Holy they're basically worthless, but I also think they feel somewhat genuine, he has a thought process and he's following it. | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I've gone on and on about why I think yamato and Risen are scum. If you're at all interested in my reads you would know this. I'm afk until after this farce is over. Going to go find your reasons. On February 14 2014 01:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I want to lynch Risen. Does anyone NOT want to lynch Risen except for Risen? On February 16 2014 02:22 VisceraEyes wrote: ALSO RISEN IS STILL IN THIS GAME LMAO On February 16 2014 02:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Like LOL that people are calling me scum when Risen is still alive. LOL On February 16 2014 03:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know, Oats is with Grack/Risen for me. I think we might be able to narrow it down with the coming days if we get two scum flips in Keir/Yamato. On February 16 2014 07:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah Risen isn't making any kind of impact on this game. I'll look at his filter when I get back to a computer. On February 16 2014 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Undue suspicion? What makes you think Risen is town? On February 16 2014 07:53 VisceraEyes wrote: As I said...Risen is in a null area for me. Some stuff he says rubs me the wrong way, including stuff NOT about VE, but nothing jumps out at me as super scummy. I need to filter him when I get to computer to check out HF point about him. On February 16 2014 18:39 VisceraEyes wrote: The thing about Risen's return to the thread is that he's accusing HF of having a carefully worded, possibly leading question to me. But the thing is presumably Risen has a scumread on me, and the lynch candidate is Keirathi. Now Risen is spotted earlier in his filter numbering both myself and Keirathi in his "would lynch" lists. So presuming he's telling the truth, why is his first act in the cycle to just sheep the Keirathi lynch with no reasoning or reservation. I mean, the lynch wasn't fully decided at this point but it's fair to say that sentiment was favoring it. Why then is he not concerned about potential scum VE voting for the wagon? In fact, why does he not have any updated thoughts on anyone at all? Why is his only impulse to defend himself against an accusation that was in reality never even made? I'm not seeing anything when I filtered him where Holyflare is talking about, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and unless Holyflare clarifies what he means I have to assume his point is null...but Risen's activity during this past cycle looks really bad. Almost worse than the Keir-Yamato association. Still going over still. On February 17 2014 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah HF, that actually does look bad. Like, take his mention of Keir in "Why isn't Keir getting lynched again?" Think about it in the context of the question he asked. Why isn't Keir getting lynched? He's asking people to verbalize their reasoning for not lynching Keir. He's not trying to get people /to/ vote for Keir, in spite of saying that he thinks Keir is a good lynch. He's trying to get the opposite accomplished - he wants people to say why they think he's town or a bad lynch. Okay so I'm about convinced Risen is mafia. The question becomes: who dies first? Yamato or Risen? I'll look at both and decide who I think it should be later on. On February 17 2014 13:14 VisceraEyes wrote: You haven't said anything. You're going on about possible theory behind playing LYLO. Thx I guess? You haven't given any reasoning for why you feel the way you do about anyone in the game, so I don't care what you think we should do in the days ahead. If you want to make me care, then show me why you're suspicious of the people you are. You've been going on about VE scum for the last 2 or 3 cycles and now all of a sudden you can't, so I want to know who you /are/ suspicious of now and why. Just posting for better readability for myself. | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:10 Holyflare wrote: anyone can rationalise a town thought process when doing lylo mathematics "i am town and these are all town reads so these must be scum" is the easiest thing in the world to do, the thing he isn't doing and what makes him scum is that he's not explaining these reads in detail and out loud and he hasn't done so the entire game hence why I keep trying to get him to do it and the only thing he returns to the thread to do is talk about the lynch order again (this is the 2nd time now, it happened yesterday after me and ve came to the conclusion he was scum) Yes, and I wasn't kidding when I said we should just lynch him for worrying about his meta more than winning and using it as an excuse for not posting. I have a few reservations about lynching him though. 1. He responded to my "do you think you're obvious town" on day 1. The only other person to respond was geript. Risen then proceeded to immediately call for geript to explain why he should be considered obvious town. I gave Risen town points at the time for it because geript really had no business thinking other players should have a town read on him, which greatly strengthened my scumread on geript. I think Risen also called geript out more on day 1. 2. He has ever since day 2 been trying to lynch me. Given the disproportionate amount of influence I have had in the thread due to the triple-townie-nomination with marv and rayn it seems just like a bad idea in general for mafia to not trust me. The expected behavior here is to trust me, so I would assume mafia would adhere to that. Sure, it's not enough to make him town, but I don't feel particularly confident lynching him. | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Hes just shitting on us and disturbing the flow of the game Palmar. You are a troll and VE/HF/Risen/Grack are all outposting you. That puts you in the bottom 3 of useful people. Maybe scum is the not useful people? fix yourself. | ||
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It's not like you have some kind of a brilliant fucking library to fall back on from the early days. | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I've gone on and on about why I think yamato and Risen are scum. If you're at all interested in my reads you would know this. I'm afk until after this farce is over. It's optimal play for you as both alignments to stay here and have a discussion with me. | ||
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Here's a little "spot the difference" exercise: www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690&user=yamato77 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442512&user=yamato77 | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote: It was optimal play for you to have this same discussion with me yesterday. You know, when you were tossing shit on me for trying to play the game. Remember? Fuck off Palmar. Maybe, but remember, despite what you claimed, I was unsure about the keirathi lynch. I felt it would be a complete waste of my time and energy to discuss things as we waited for Keir to get lynched, only to have the game end if I was town. Hence the "why are you guys even posting, the game's probably going to end tonight". I wasn't tossing shit at you, I was being gloomy and in a bad mood towards the game itself. Now I have another lynch to worry about, and this time I don't know who to lynch. I was hoping for some help. | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:39 VisceraEyes wrote: PALMAR YOU ARE LITERALLY TRYING TO KILL ONE OF THE ONLY PEOPLE INTERESTED IN WINNING THE GAME FOR TOWN. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOUE XPECT ME TO DO OR THINK?!!?? If the situations were flipped, ie: I knew you were town and could die leaving you all my reads, I'd happily do it. Now clearly you don't think as I do, so I guess there's that, but there's no reason to be mean about it. I'm trying to be nice to you dude? All game long! I told them to leave you alone when you called me out. On February 11 2014 04:49 Palmar wrote: In sake of fairness, it's actually quite uncharacteristic for me to accept a wagon I don't feel good about. generally I'm all like "I never vote townies, no compromises". so VE isn't wrong. And I gave you credit for it. On February 12 2014 07:54 Palmar wrote: Now I may be terrible at meta-ing myself, but I thought I explicitly stated my thought process was different from previous games, VE noted as much. I said I wanted you to love me. On February 12 2014 23:47 Palmar wrote: I said we had time! It's no big deal, and I don't want to alienate VE too much if he's town as he could be useful. And when they forgot you existed, I didn't. On February 14 2014 01:34 Palmar wrote: And VE just doesn't exist? I said you were good and valuable. On February 17 2014 18:03 Palmar wrote: I value VE's opinions when he's town. We're right back in lylo if anyone of us flips town, VE flipping town has nothing to do with our lylo situation and I didn't say it had. I want his reads so I can have trusted town-perspective reads from someone I think is quite good at mafia to hold my hand as I continue playing this game. And I said I appreciated you. On February 17 2014 23:30 Palmar wrote: I appreciate you trying to win the game VE, problem is it is directly against the VE style of play I know to do literally nothing for the first 2-3 cycles. So I can't convince myself to let you live over myself. All in all, you're a solid 8. (Hot stuff). On February 17 2014 23:42 Palmar wrote: I think there's a 60% chance you're town, I value your reads 8 (scale 1-10). And still I get all this hate | ||
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On February 18 2014 00:43 Grackaroni wrote: And don't let his effort fool you. No matter how bleak the situation looks he will not stop posting until he's lynched. If HF is scum, you're town and VE is town, why is HF arguing with me about lynching VE? Why isn't he happily lynching VE with me. That would allow him to continue tunneling you tomorrow, without having to deal with "having been wrong" in his case on you. | ||
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And yes, if you're town, I sorta get why you're frustrated, and tbh I wouldn't mind if it was you who got nominated with reyn and marv on day 2, that would've been great, no pressure on me. And it's probably my fault, not yours, that I'm not confident/good enough to know the difference between your townplay and your scumplay. But I've often said, and you know I have, that I'm not that good at mafia beyond the first day or so. It's very difficult for me to go from thinking you're mafia to thinking you're town, based on you suddenly becoming supertown on like day 4. That's just far out of my comfort zone. You're playing well when I'm playing badly. But pls, don't take geript credit away from me. It was legit push. On February 09 2014 06:30 Palmar wrote: It actually kind of does. I've finished reading the thread. I think we should kill geript. I may be biased because I think he's a dick, but I also think he has a good chance of being scum. ##Vote: geript On February 09 2014 06:40 Palmar wrote: Well the last one is that he claims to have played strong enough towngame to be considered obvious town, decided to ignore Risen's inquiry about an explanation. I think it should be fairly obvious to himself he does not look like town to everyone in the game. There are several other things that stand out. He opened the game by going after two players unlikely to defend themselves at that point in the game. The Oats asked him about his intentios with the vote which is a perfectly reasonable question but that prompted geript to call the question stupid and countervote Oats, which is clearly not very productive. I mean maybe he's just decided to be a dick which would actually fit what I think of him in general, but it's not helping us win the game and if he continues to play like this I'd frankly simply be ok with lynching him no matter his alignment just so I don't have to deal with him. But there's also the option that he's being a dick because it's easier than playing normally when you're scum... so.. On February 09 2014 06:53 Palmar wrote: What is blatantly false? I'm not sure I'm following you. I think everything I said in my post was in fact true. I don't care what you think should be the best way to read you. How am I trying to skew your actions, literally what I said happened. I'll even quote it. Are you denying this happened? I mean feel free to attack my conclusion, but you can't attack my premise, that's just dumb. Also, I don't care what you think about "how players normally are". I'm not going to let people get away with doing stuff on "meta". On February 09 2014 07:06 Palmar wrote: 1. If that is protecting, then yeah, I'm protecting every single player in the game except you at the moment. I could push oats, but I could also be pushing other people. I decided to push you. 2. How on earth am I meant to answer that... are you seriously accusing me of being Palmar? I don't have an alternative account I can post under. Please stop this. 3. Because I can. On February 09 2014 10:03 Palmar wrote: How do you think people play mafia with people they don't know well? This is fair, it's obviously a bit dumb, but I guess the story makes sense. You say you've "covered" the Oats thing, but I still don't understand why you couldn't just answer Oats the question at the time. I mean you've now explained why you did what you did, and since you changed your vote in the same post you refused Oats an answer, your "poke" was no longer valid, so I still struggle with why you feel like you have to be a dick. You said something like "treat cora like geript is in the game (tm)". I have no idea what that even means. You think you're easy to read, but because you fucking insist on being a dick and intentionally do stupid and bad things, you're not. It's objectively bad to do some of the things you've done. If you want to be easy to read, be less of a dick and less disruptive. That all being said I need to consider. I have no opinion on Marv yet but he seems to think you're town... so idk. Please come back to the thread more useful and less asshole. On February 09 2014 10:07 Palmar wrote: I specifically asked people not to troll the response. So I am assuming geript's opinion of himself is genuine. His later outburst actually supports that, so that's consistent. I don't think it was a joke response. So yeah, it's entirely plausible geript just has a really hard time realizing how shit his posting is because he's caught up in trying to be a badass (why do so many people here want to be badasses?). On February 09 2014 10:08 Palmar wrote: The eternal question of mafia. Bad, or scum? On February 10 2014 02:03 Palmar wrote: How about my wagon marv? help me instead? On February 10 2014 06:04 Palmar wrote: Bitch please, I got marv to ragequit by tunneling him. Get on my level. I the bolded is a possible explanation, and if I can't get anything else going Cora is probably the wagon I'll support. I still think we should lynch geript. He's just fucked off and done nothing since it became clear my case wasn't winning people over easily. Also I like all the resistance to his lynch, makes me think it's more likely he's scum. The only strange thing in that is, normally I would be less compromising about wanting to lynch my guy, but I basically didn't have my swag (been a while since I played), so I figured I needed to make a stance on the Koshi/VA/Cora thing (all were town!) And it didn't help that Cora decided to be a dick to me. | ||
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On February 18 2014 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Think about this: scum put up Palmar/VE/Grack for lynch today. Of those three, who has been in the thread trying to figure shit out and find scum the most over the last 72 hours? Or in other words, of those three, who do you think scum hope gets lynched? I'll give you a hint: confirmed scum Keirathi made a huge case against one of them. Your argument would hold up perfectly if we're talking about your average mafia player. I am not your average mafia player. I do a lot of things other people don't. Let me name a few.
And I saved the most important one for last. I strongly believe I'm very good early in the game, and I have less faith in my ability later in the game. You have played enough games with me to know all of the above is 100% true. I can't trust late-game Palmar (who thinks you're town) over early-game Palmar (who thinks you're scum). I would not be trying to lynch you if this was a FFA lynch (probably). But it isn't. | ||
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It'd hurt so much if he was scum, we had such a good opportunity to lynch him. I just don't think mafia would've put him up against me (who is basically confirmed town) and Koshi (who everyone thought was town and had marv guarantee(tm)). | ||
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On February 18 2014 03:03 Risen wrote: Is it so much to ask that we discuss who to lynch NOT today since there's so little time left... like say, wave day 1 (still nothing), New guy nomination 2, hf day 3, New guy day 4, leftover day 5? All I ask is that I be lynched AFTER hf. Honestly I'd say lynch oats d3 but he's impossible to read so I'm more confident in my hf read. Why can't we do that tomorrow? We don't know who gets nominated, we don't know how the game is going to flow. | ||
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Are you absolutely certain holyflare is scum Grack? | ||
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On February 18 2014 05:21 yamato77 wrote: ##Vote Grackaroni These nomination days are extremely boring. do something or we default lynch you tomorrow. | ||
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On February 18 2014 05:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes I wrote stuff about Yamato that was summarily and unceremoniously skipped too. What, you wanna fight about it? So you think we should lynch yamato tomorrow? | ||
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On February 18 2014 06:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Cool story bro! That's utterly meaningless, but nice catch! Well your claim that you should live is that somehow you've been so active figuring things out, but you've not really had much impact on anything yet. | ||
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On February 18 2014 06:01 VisceraEyes wrote: I wouldn't shed any tears over our dearly departed cannon brother, no. okay, that's settled then! In VE we trust. Now please self-vote. I'll lynch yamato tomorrow in your memory. | ||
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And obviously that means I have to deal with the fact that you desperately clung to your life and had enough backing from afk/scummy people to survive, so I'd have to consider you seriously for scum too. | ||
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On February 18 2014 06:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, you were never really GOOD at Mafia, you were just an icon of noobiness that all the newbies gathered around. Now you're just another bullshit veteran who thinks he's better than he is. Such a shame. Or sham. One of the two. Hey that's not nice. I assert that I am good at exactly what I claim to be good at! For years I've said that I am good at two things in mafia. One of them is day 1 scumhunting (and hey, I got one!) and the other is leading town. Thing is, those two things can be worked into a pretty big advantage if handled correctly. But sure, be a dick to me if you want to. But don't put words in my mouth. I know exactly what I can do and what I can't do in mafia, the whole reason I want to lynch you is, as I've admitted, a problem in my own game. At least I own my faults. | ||
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Now I have no idea who is town. Guess we'll see tomorrow. see you | ||
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I don't think VE is town. Everything I said/did today was to confirm my suspicions on him. There is no reason for him to go absolutely bat-shit insane at me for suggesting he take the lynch. He was capsing, calling me insane and genuinely being a massive drama queen about something that a townie would've discussed factually instead of in the raging manner he did. This rage was acting, it was over the top and I don't believe it. Think about that until I return. | ||
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Grackaroni is 90% town. No one is trying to save him, if he's scum mafia could have an amazing way of saving him here by just sheeping me, if Grack is scum I'm literally giving mafia a free get out of jail card by pushing VE all day. Doesn't look like mafia is interested in saving Grack so.... Get on VE, kill VE. Love, Palmar. | ||
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Come join your glorious leader. | ||
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On February 18 2014 09:03 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm literally going to do nothing but vote in this thread until the game is over. Follow Palmar unto your doom. I expect nothing less | ||
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On February 17 2014 23:45 VisceraEyes wrote: PALMAR DIES TODAY. NO ONE VOTES ANYONE BUT PALMAR OR CLAIMS FUCKING SCUM. do you retract this? | ||
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On February 18 2014 09:12 Grackaroni wrote: Don't do it Wave. He's a solid mislynch. and you aren't | ||
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On February 18 2014 09:12 Grackaroni wrote: Don't do it Wave. He's a solid mislynch. you know that if you don't want VE lynched, you could simply unvote him and vote yourself, right? | ||
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Any vote-switches after that should be considered scum-switches. | ||
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I wish VE would've gotten majority. Then I could've cleared him. Oh well it was worth the try. | ||
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I guess I might as well do that now. ##unvote VE ##Vote Grackaroni Thing is, if VE had actually gotten to the point where he would be lynched, then I'd have confirmed him. But close enough, whatever. | ||
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On February 18 2014 09:27 Grackaroni wrote: I think all you accomplished was pissing off VE Yes, he didn't get majority. So there's still a tiny chance he's scum. But fuck it. Once you're dead I'll be treating him as confirmed town. This is what town wanted, so let's give it to us! | ||
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VE, I'm counting on you for tomorrow. | ||
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On February 18 2014 09:30 Grackaroni wrote: And I regret killing Rayn over Palmar XD Oh yeah, that was crazy. I was perfectly ready to die on day 2. I had all the shit down. I had my case on that scum (geript) and I was ready to die a hero, instead of living long enough to see myself become the villain. | ||
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I don't care if he could be scum, if that's the case, someone else fucked up. | ||
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Yam HF WoS Risen Oats I'm looking forward to everyone's contributions. | ||
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VE your dream comes true. We're working together! | ||
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##vote yamato | ||
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If you then go on to refuse to clear up the muddy image, how on earth are we ever meant to win any mafia game ever? | ||
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On February 18 2014 15:00 Oatsmaster wrote: 3 scum 2 town. ##vote yamato 2 scum 2 town @VE this guy is super problematic for me. If nothing else I might end up default lynching him for not doing anything. I can't really remember how Oats generally plays as town, but he's another guy who doesn't seem to care about the game at all. | ||
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But I feel that's unlikely to be the case. @Risen, can I count on you to sheep whatever VE and I conclude? | ||
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Holyman should we listen to Grack and lynch you? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20759288 Corazon is scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20760556 Palmar, VA and Koshi are scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20760842 Grack is scum On February 13 2014 08:19 Holyflare wrote: the only wrekt is when I flip town and 2/2 of my scum reads are correct :o Bitch please | ||
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I'd like to know who that player is. That way I know what your current scum-team theory is. | ||
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VisceraEyes (1): Keirathi VayneAuthority (5): Oatsmaster, VisceraEyes, marvellosity, Koshi, Holyflare Keirathi (1): WaveofShadow Holyflare (4): Grackaroni, VayneAuthority, Risen, Palmar WaveofShadow (1): yamato77 There wasn't at least a huge push to get Vayne over Holy by the mafia team so... | ||
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On February 13 2014 09:27 Koshi wrote: If scum wins and Holyflare is scum do I get the belt for being scum MVP? Fuck it, I'm blaming Koshi for saving HF if HF is scum. So let's assume HF is town. | ||
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Let's go town, into the sunset! | ||
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On February 10 2014 05:55 Palmar wrote: ok I'm back. My reading of the last few pages has been a bit sketchy, but whatever. I don't think I want to lynch Kosher. Other people I don't want to lynch include WoS, Oats, myself, Risen etc. I worry about the Cora wagon. I pointed out some inconsistency in his play myself, but his random vote on me there before he switched is really head scratching if he's mafia. Now his is obviously not going to make much sense to anyone but myself, but given how he's been wanting to kill me and been casually calling me out all game, it seems like a strange vote as it makes it more likely he'll flip AND if he flips mafia he's basically confirming me as town. So knowing my own alignment, his move just doesn't make any sense if he's mafia. I'd much rather lynch somewhere into geript, marv, VE, rayn, or even holyfare. I'm unsure about yamato... | ||
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I should be lynched for aids and bad. | ||
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also I mad that I'm not getting carried harder. Very mad. Put your vote on the yamato I think. I'm going to re-read his filter. | ||
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On February 08 2014 11:12 yamato77 wrote: I fully expect mafia to want to shoot me by the time they can, so there's really nothing to read into it. Why did you expect that? I mean this was after you knew you wouldn't be there the next day, so why do you think mafia would see you as such a threat that it warrants shooting you? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Oatsmaster I read Yamato's filter. There's not much in it, but what is in there looks genuine enough. Oats is a better lynch. He has basically just casually trotted along for the ride all through the game. | ||
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On February 12 2014 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote: WHATS THE POINT OF THIS WAVE? DONT YOU THINK YOU CAN READ KEIRATHI WITHOUT A VOTE ON HIM? Why are you immediately voting for him without him posting anything? Oats did get emotional once this game though... so there's that. | ||
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WoS, do you think there is mafia in me/ve/hf? | ||
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I just think he is. It's mostly got to do with him being so wobblycloggerish. | ||
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found this: On February 13 2014 06:28 marvellosity wrote: Wave I'm finding it real hard to side with you this game, and not because you've been snippy with me. If I'm picking sides I'm on yamato's side. | ||
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But I did not really come away from that conversation thinking much one way or the other about you guys. | ||
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On February 18 2014 22:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Who would your team be right now if you had to hazard a guess? Would you replace me with yamato? I don't know. I am just looking for whoever is the most likely to be scum today. You could be, but there's nothing that says oats/yam can't be scumbuddies. And hf/ve could be scum. Game hard. So yeah. | ||
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On February 19 2014 00:26 yamato77 wrote: You apparently have read my filter, and don't think it looks bad, so why am I being discussed? It was once correct that if I didn't particularly care about a game, I was mafia, but that's not even the case. I've played back to back games now where I have been demotivated to play. At least early on this game, I tried figuring things out. If there is anything you think that muddies my image, bring up your concerns. I haven't read anything specific. It's all vagaries like "he's more active as town" which are the same kinds of things used against me in Quiet Game. As for who we should lynch, I think it's clear that you/ve/HF are town, so it should almost certainly be in the oats/wave/risen group. I see you vote Oats. What makes him a better lynch than one of the other two? Does it matter if you actually believe what you just said? | ||
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On February 19 2014 00:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah I'm fine with yamato lynch. Like, in other games in general I'm able to super fastly just commit to townYamato. He's really giving us nothing to work with this game, and with everything else I think he's just the best target. ##Vote: yamato Are we sure this is the right thing honey? It feels like I'm driving off a cliff holding your hand and hoping for the best... | ||
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I think HF is scum, but I guess we have to sort of ignore that possibility based on the situation we're in. The happenings around the VA lynch are pretty redeeming for HF. Despite having been wrong on everything so far, HF was raging until the last minute before Koshi casually stepped in and point it out to him that HF could simply not get lynched by voting for the counterwagon. Koshi wasn't mafia, and I sort of agree with Koshi it's unlikely mafia would fuck up like that. Based on that, and that alone I'm going to assume HF is town. I am not sure who to go for now. | ||
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On February 19 2014 03:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm playing, I'm just doing a lot of stuff simultaneously. Why are you thinking yamato isn't the right choice? I read his filter. It's not particularly good, it's just that I can't pick out that "AHA, HE'S SCUM!" moment. The closest thing is his very strange rage on day 1, and how he softly called out geript and risen in a post before turning his head to Cora. At least one of geript and risen is scum. I'm honestly just very confused right now. | ||
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I also read his interaction with WoS at wave's request, and I can't tell I'm coming away particularly leaning one way or the other. Maybe yamato is scum for simply lacking strong opinions and being useless, but I can't find anything that makes him scum based on what he posted. | ||
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I think Oats is scum, if I assume you're town. But we have two other scums in that pool of three. Currently I'm kinda working under the assumption WoS is the town in that group. But I'm very unsure that is the correct read. | ||
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On February 19 2014 05:11 Holyflare wrote: I think oats is town :o If you think Oats is town, you by extension think the scumteam is yamato/WoS/Risen. Good to know where you stand Do you want to elaborate on that stance on Oats? | ||
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On February 14 2014 00:16 Palmar wrote: Nice going this game buddy, Cora guaranteed scum. Maybe I should just agree with risen. This 80% number is way off. | ||
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Is it possible HF/Oats/ (Risen/WoS) is the mafia team? | ||
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On February 19 2014 05:02 Holyflare wrote: I... don't even understand???? What planet do you come from where dead people's reads become 100% truth? Also tbh, Both Grack and VA guaranteed you were scum. Maybe these guys know you a lot better than I do... | ||
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But all that being said, while you wrote all this I was and am reading Oats's ego mini mafia filter clicky! and trying to make sense of it. Oats hasn't done anything in the game. I'm trying to remember that town game where he was instrumental in lynching scum on day 1, as I wanted both a town game and scum game for reference. I still think lynching Oats is a good idea. I have nice "feels" (isn't that what the cool kids call it?) about killing him. | ||
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I know you can't see my face But I'm really happy right now, I feel like I have a lynch we can get on. Problem is that if yamato is town the game is lost, as he apparently plays only 2-3 posts a day. We need everyone to switch to Oats. | ||
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I think Oats is scum because he has been all over the place without ever trying to enforce any of his reads. I wrote a point on day 2 where I noted he had called just about everyone in the game scum. He has been like a fly on the wall doing nothing but throwing out random points the entire game. I seem to remember a game where Oats was instrumental in leading a lynch on day one, nothing even remotely close has ever happened this game. This is a lynch I'm willing to do, I think it's a good lynch. It's a lynch I'm willing to go down with and take the responsibility. | ||
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On February 19 2014 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: That post wtf. I'll read that later but if it's a Holy-case on Oats it almost makes me think we should do the opposite to be right.... haha, yeah I get the same feeling. His megacases on Grack and Cora didn't work out! | ||
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On February 19 2014 06:08 Holyflare wrote: You said you have to treat me as town so you only need 1 other town to complete that circle, you are thinking it's wave. That would mean both oats and risen are scum and he's afk sleep voting the guy you think is scum. Shouldn't we be auto voting risen in this case either way? Can you not count? With me, VE already on Oats, WoS willing to lynch him we only need your vote. Yam's vote is irrelevant, he's probably scum with Oats! | ||
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Trust me! | ||
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On February 19 2014 07:02 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not following. Why can't Oats be scum if one of you/VE/HF are? And why am I scum now? No you're not reading. VE's point is that Risen is probably not scum, as too many people are already voting for him without me/VE on the train. and here's the reason Oats _might_ not be scum On February 19 2014 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Well there's also this about Oats: both yamato AND Wave have stated that they're at least partially interested in lynching Oats today. So if we're assuming Palmar and VE are town, that means that 4 players have stated interest or intent to lynch Oats. Risen raged by way of Oats, HF hard defending Oats. Oats IS Oats. So, if Oats is scum, that means that either A) all scum are NOT interested in lynching Oats, or B) at least one scum has stated that he'll lynch Oats or he could lynch Oats. Considering how unlikely I find a Risen/HF scumteam, I'd say that B) is what we're looking at here, does anyone agree/disagree? So, if we say neither of them are (I think that's unlikely) it means that there's three scum in me/ve/hf/you/yam But I don't think this is the case. | ||
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VE I really, really think this Oats lynch is the way to go. | ||
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WoS, Risen, HF, you should all get on Oats. | ||
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iphone? | ||
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On February 19 2014 07:34 WaveofShadow wrote: He's calling you a champion of the light Paladin I'm pretty much a paladin yeah. Overconfident asshole who thinks every word that comes out of his mouth is blessed by the holy light. Sounds about right. | ||
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I've heard your arguments and I don't agree with you. Please understand that you need to be on my lynch no matter how you feel about it. if I'm wrong I'm sorry. | ||
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Two players claim to be afk with dead votes. we don't know if I'm right or wrong. Everyone should be on Oats, scum or town. Anything but that is a scumclaim. | ||
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On February 19 2014 08:06 Holyflare wrote: =.= =.= =.= fine whatever then consensus achieved ((((##Vote Oatsmaster btw you can call me bad if he flips town, can I lynch you if he flips scum? | ||
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I already pointed out a few strange things in his behavior on day 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20770190 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20770199 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20771172 | ||
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And it's perfectly safe to call everyone scum as long as you don't do it too much and don't try to lynch them too hard. | ||
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On February 19 2014 08:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I really hope we're right about this. I feel like I gave it a good shot, no matter the outcome. Remember, it's not unlikely shenanigans (vote-switch) will happen, and there isn't much we can do about it if it does. | ||
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On February 19 2014 08:44 VisceraEyes wrote: I know I just feel like we ended up in a pretty good place in this game and it would really suck if it was all for nothing because some of the people who got us here were/are scum. Like you I feel like I did my best, but I'm afraid it was too late I wouldn't be too sad if this ended tonight. I feel like I have a pretty good reason for lynching Oats, and I'd love to not deal with the pressure of finding scum anymore. I don't like late-game mafia, I'm much more of a fan of just scumhunting for a day or two and then getting shot. | ||
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gg. | ||
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On February 19 2014 09:36 VisceraEyes wrote: And fuck everyone who didn't want to lynch Yamato today. FUCK. I thought holy was scum all along, his insistence oats wasn't scum convinced me to try oats instead. I mean, given how little risen and oats contributed we never really stood a chance. | ||
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So I tried Oats. And half of town afk ^^ | ||
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My main problem is I could never establish enough townies. Even this last day I was only sure VE was town. | ||
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And of course this last day. I needed 2 townies I could be fairly secure in, I only had one. | ||
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On February 19 2014 09:52 Holyflare wrote: Yeh, what you said makes sense. What Palmar said doesn't !I don't really use meta. He didn't do shit, he dies. | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:00 VayneAuthority wrote: i mean its not even close, WoS played far and away better then the other 3 scum but whatevs lol You need to get better at defending yourself against lynches. I liked some of the stuff you posted, but you can't just give up and get lynched dude, gotta make lynching you a pain in the ass. | ||
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On February 19 2014 09:59 marvellosity wrote: the more i think about it the more it feels that town (me) let this slip out of our hands. not blaming anyone and wp mafia for seeing the game through. just frustrating because it seems like it should have been quite doable. Everybody fucked up buddy, Koshi and VE were on VA too, and it wasn't like I was actively defending him even if I had an idea that HF was the better lynch at the time. The day 1 lynch was a shame because Cora basically did nothing the entire day except rage at me for calling geript scum. I am btw requesting a ban on Cora for what could possibly be taken as an indication he doesn't think I'm town in his post-death post. The "Fuck you Palmar" following the gg gl town, can possibly be taken to mean that he thinks I'm not part of this town he's wishing good luck, and that is trying to influence the game post-death | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:05 VayneAuthority wrote: honestly unless you or some one else ever planned on lynching WoS it doesn't matter in the end because I would have never lynched him even in 3 way. Well if you had gotten out of that lynch, we'd have nailed holy, and that gives us a mislynch to play with. I can do a lot more when I don't have to worry about fucking the game up if I'm wrong. | ||
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Also, can someone now tell me why everyone is raging so hard all the time? It's ridiculous. | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:13 VayneAuthority wrote: there is no point in blaming anyone, it's a team game at any rate. I just was not sure how to combat that particular lynch because there was nothing I could say that could diffuse the accusations made against me. They were true but didn't make me mafia. What I do is I just start explaining things over the top. I know I posted what is being used to accuse me with as town, so all I have to do is write a case as to why this could have been posted by town-me. Note, I'm not blaming you at all dude. We fucked up, all of us. I don't think anyone in town is really free of this mess. I'm just pointing out one thing you can do better. | ||
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gg wp | ||
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ie: both sides can steamroll really hard in this setup. | ||
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On February 19 2014 18:51 marvellosity wrote: yes, of course. rayn/palmar/koshi were the easy townreads because they actually tried. it will always be so. One day I hope I get into a mafia game where everyone tries. That'd be good. | ||
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Although I actually think scum needs the shot. They need to be able to get rid of that asshole confirmed townie who is raping everyone and everything. The time issue is another thing. Maybe we could figure out a way to have scum submit the nomination lynch during the day (submit 3 people with 1 backup, in case one of the three gets lynched?) Then we treat the nomination lynch as "nights". This would give town the normal 48h/24h cycle and keep the game interesting for longer. I had literally nothing to do from the moment we lynched VA until the last day, I did try to get VE lynched (for good reasons yo!) but that wasn't even necessary. The Keirathi lynch was a default by then. | ||
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On February 19 2014 10:36 Grackaroni wrote: Yeah I agree. Either Palmar is trolling or he just dislikes Cora and is trying to ban him for cursing him. Not trolling. And while I think there is very little chance anyone listens to it, there is always a tiny chance. No reason we should tolerate anything like this. When you're out of the game you've ceased to have the right to have public opinions on anything in the game until it's over. I am very much in favor of strict rules. (I hand out modkills like candy if I need to in my games). All it takes is one idiot to read too much into a message like this, and let's say for a second that Cora holds the same amount of respect as someone like marv, or syllo or foolishness does... boom, the game is no longer valid. | ||
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All those special rules! My favorite one is the "Don't ask questions in the thread, don't mention asking questions in the thread". | ||
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But yes, these semi-traditional roles are fun. I'm really proud of the Operator role, I think it's a much more interesting role than mason. | ||
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