[C][M][T] Survivor Series Mafia

On February 09 2014 10:40 WaveofShadow wrote:

Hi Grack.
Read the thread?

On February 09 2014 11:35 Koshi wrote:

One might say I buddy rayn even harder as scum. Telling him he is the best player in the game so that he kills the people that want to kill me. Those poor sods.

On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message.

Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason?

On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote:

We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum.

On February 09 2014 11:49 Corazon wrote:

Not yet. I'll give Palmar some more time to do something useful.

On February 09 2014 14:52 Corazon wrote:

Where did I say that

On February 09 2014 16:19 VayneAuthority wrote:


nah lousy scum. it works for this playerlist since there is very few people that lurk here.

On February 09 2014 10:36 marvellosity wrote:
It doesn't involve you simply trusting me, because it makes sense. It's the making sense part that's different from the blind trust part. Jeez :/

Anyway, the Cora thing. I didn't mind his big post like you did. I even saved it to talk about it but I decided not to. Essentially it seems pretty possible that he believes that what yamato did was genuinely misrepresenting him, even though what yamato said was actually totally fine. I *think* I'd expect a town-Cora to think that way more than a mafia-Cora, perhaps?

I expect a certain level of productivity from him though which I've not really seen so far. So that mini-read will only get him so far.

On February 10 2014 00:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
lol what how is marv unreadable?

Koshi, what do you think about his read on me then? Is it bad? Why doesnt it make him scum?

On February 10 2014 02:00 marvellosity wrote:
Not going to argue with you Grack as you seem essentially incapable of understanding basic mafia concepts.

On February 10 2014 02:01 Oatsmaster wrote:

a vote is a significant amount of effort considering you only have 1 of them.


Maybe I think marv is scum because im never around when marv is so I cant chat with him and shit.

On February 10 2014 02:19 Corazon wrote:

Lol no I'm not going to die. You guys are gonna switch targets before the deadline. Rayn's going to go berserk and change his read and get the town to vote for someone else.

On February 10 2014 02:23 Koshi wrote:
Oh wow. It is happening.

On February 10 2014 02:58 Palmar wrote:
I'm no a huge fan of either wagon atm. I'll admit i haven't read much of kosher

On February 10 2014 03:09 VayneAuthority wrote:
well let's be honest there's really nothing here for me to analyze yet, but it's such a small game that if i have to die day 1 then whatevs

On February 10 2014 06:25 geript wrote:
Palmar is there a reason you're specifically ignoring a Grack lynch?

On February 10 2014 06:26 Palmar wrote:
yes Grack is my scumbuddy.

On February 10 2014 06:45 geript wrote:
##vote Grackaroni
First off, we can all agree that Grack's been useless this game. Unfortunately, this isn't alignment indicative of him though. There are some good reasons for him to be scum.
+ Show Spoiler [filters] +
1.He's objectively weird but no one has been interested in discussing him. Like he's gotten a complete free pass.
2. The Cora lynch has too much steam. There are way too many people ok with lynching Cora right now for it to end up being a good lynch. On top of that, Cora reacted to Palmar exactly how I had which should be a good litmus test.
3. Grack has bounced around to 3 different people with completely shitty reasons every time.
4. We get to avoid super awkward situations like happened in LXIV.
5. Grack has more swagger as town than he has as scum. Hell he's voted for himself both times as town (once was for mayor). He's also far more negative as scum than he is as town. It's weird to try and describe, but I'm not seeing any sense of confidence coming out of Grack. Most of his statements this game have been qualified: "I do think it could be" "I might be ok" "But you haven't done anything to try to solve the game?" There's a serious disconnect between these posts and how I read him in his other town games.
6. This is weak, but in his scum games he also uses quotes more than he does as town. It feels like his lack of confidence wants him to pad his filter with extra space.

That's the bullet point. Rayn/VE your thoughts.

On February 10 2014 07:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Who makes a case that says "Grack is mafia because Corazon lynch is too easy".
srsly?

On February 10 2014 08:18 Koshi wrote:
How sure are you that I am town Grack?

On February 10 2014 10:08 Palmar wrote:


I'd be fine with that, ez marv lynch.

On February 10 2014 10:11 Holyflare wrote:


Grack, why did you take no stance on Cora the entire game despite him being the main wagon, the most voted player, looking scummy and being town?

You even questioned his intentions with Palmar here:



What did you think of his responses and then why did you not portray those feelings to us so as to give us more information on the main lynch candidate?


Also, why did you use a throwaway vote on risen with no explanation:




but then not push for his lynch, question him or argue with him (seeing as you just stated that arguing with your scum suspect is good)

On February 10 2014 10:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why is risen scum grack?

On February 10 2014 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote:

thats horrifically bad reasoning. Why didnt you put any effort into asking him and shit?

On February 10 2014 13:39 geript wrote:
Wave, can't talk. In bathroom hiding phone usage. Look at Grack. <3

On February 11 2014 05:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
No wait, HF I was right you didn't talk about him today that was all yesterday's stuff, and it wasn't much at all.
I like that you tried to get him to explain his Koshi townread (which is what I want from the entire damn thread) but he just offers the same thing as everyone else 'He doesn't look like scum Koshi.'

K filtering

On February 11 2014 06:01 WaveofShadow wrote:


Yes it is the same metric, but you talked about it specifically from the POV of the EARLY point in the game. I believe your post was about him reading his role PM and being depressed? Would you expect a scum Koshi to be depressed about reading his scum role PM the entire game?

And as far as Koshi goes, nobody wants to talk to me about him or explain anything to me so I see no point in continuing to tunnel all game. If you can't already tell, I don't appreciate anti-town activity.

On February 11 2014 10:54 VayneAuthority wrote:
in my scenario, grack most likely gets lynched 100% as town but yuo can't fully trust the other 2.

On February 11 2014 11:17 WaveofShadow wrote:

Grack answer my question in my post about you.

I'll be back shortly.

On February 11 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:

Post is here.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442512&currentpage=57#1124

And yeah marv you and I clearly need to break up for a while.

On February 11 2014 11:42 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah no, not acceptable Grack.
Answer my question.
Or are you saying that you mistook the word 'nominations' for Day 3?

On February 11 2014 11:49 WaveofShadow wrote:

And you just expect people to take your word for it?
Hell, even if you do pick up your activity on Day 3, that's the most scum-motivated thing you could do since for scum, nominations voting day is 'free.'
You have extra time to find scum and you should be using it. I don't understand anything you're trying to accomplish this game other than being a troll. If you're town, shape up. If not, get lynched.

On February 11 2014 11:52 WaveofShadow wrote:

No traps, I'm genuinely curious.
It seems you have resolved to be nothing but useless so I see no reason to keep you around. It's a shame I can't do so right now, but then again, you wouldn't have said what you did if you could be eliminated right now, would you have? The fact that you assume that whatever you do a day from now will change my mind doesn't make me feel better about you.

On February 11 2014 11:55 WaveofShadow wrote:

Because I wanted to see if you had some sort of plan/read that was pending on who got nominated.
I wanted to see if you would offer something to the thread besides nothing.

Is that strange to you? Should I have expected to get nothing out of you?

On February 12 2014 00:57 Koshi wrote:
100% marv guarentee accomplished.

On February 12 2014 01:02 marvellosity wrote:
Risen didn't have a Palmar-point beyond "paranoia for no reason"

On February 12 2014 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

So do you think he is mafia then?

On February 12 2014 01:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:

So what's this all about then?

On February 12 2014 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
OH YEAH KOSHI.

Oats/geript/Vayne/Koshi. ftw.

On February 12 2014 01:16 marvellosity wrote:

you're my current #2 scumread.

On February 12 2014 01:24 Koshi wrote:

rofl. So true.

Why do you ask so many silly questions this game Grack? Like the one with Oats after I quoted a million questions already?

On February 12 2014 03:19 VisceraEyes wrote:

I for one find this post ironic and would like everyone to reflect on its significance.

On February 10 2014 09:33 yamato77 wrote:

If this is the standard of play I am to expect from other town players in this game, I will have a tough time actually finding mafia.

On February 12 2014 04:20 VayneAuthority wrote:
i reclaim the unreadable belt after this game, unless anyone thinks im town.

and marv continues his streak of never being able to read me

On February 10 2014 06:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've literally never been able to correctly identify Grack's alignment.

On February 11 2014 22:23 marvellosity wrote:
I don't really know how to read Grack though, because he doesn't ever do anything. As mafia in... Golden Sun, he came across very sensibly, kinda like here.

On February 11 2014 05:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
You've mentioned fake rage a shit ton in this game and while I agreed with you when applied to Koshi I'd like to see some actual supporting content now because shitting on people from the sidelines is not helpful and grack-y.

On February 10 2014 05:26 Risen wrote:

Any reason I've been grouped with them? (Activity? Reasoning behind my reads lacking? Something else?)

On February 11 2014 21:37 Koshi wrote:
Grack will die. VA will die. First this guy
##invite
##vote: raynpolikoneet

On February 11 2014 10:54 VayneAuthority wrote:
in my scenario, grack most likely gets lynched 100% as town but yuo can't fully trust the other 2.

On February 12 2014 00:03 Palmar wrote:
Btw, this is my current view of the game:

Town -> Scum

Corazon
Palmar
marvellosity
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
Risen
WaveofShadow
Holyflare
Grackaroni
yamato77
Oatsmaster
VisceraEyes
geript
VayneAuthority

On February 09 2014 09:48 marvellosity wrote:
boo. Odin would have been so much easier to read.

On February 11 2014 21:25 Koshi wrote:

gut read tbh. Not enough funzies while he interacts with people. Also he doesn't trow out outrageous claims of scum out in the open or just baits people to find out what they think. It's all serious questions and dumb stupid boring not understandable questions.

A collection:

Making fun of Marv.

Trying to Read Marv

What did you expect me find out where all of the votes were parked myself!?

For funzies

Switch where votes were parked for when lynch deadline is.

Important.

I didn't remember that/Useless

Fun/speculation

Spreading suspicion. I mean scum hunting.

Scuuuumhunting.

Because Marv's bad meta/making fun of the time Rayn used bad meta.

Because everyone is saying that nobody is looking into me when in fact everybody is looking at me.

Probably could have done without the question mark.

Good enough for me. Not sure about everyone else. Obviously I'm going to need to know how much I will have to post in the coming days to avoid that deadly lynch.

His question was really useless so I forgot about it.

Important.

Important/same question as last time. Also nomination days are free for all non-townie looking players hue hue hue.

Same as above.

Answer to useless question in question form.
I should read Hogwarts or something but I am certain he is more challenging/brave in there. I don't think the misslynch in SMB has anything to do with this. If it really bothered him he would have said that already a couple times.

On February 12 2014 08:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Lol at all the nominees voting for themselves. Yeah fuck this game...if the people who scum want dead don't even want to pay then I can't be bothered either. Gg scum.

On February 12 2014 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote:

WHATS THE POINT OF THIS WAVE? DONT YOU THINK YOU CAN READ KEIRATHI WITHOUT A VOTE ON HIM?
Why are you immediately voting for him without him posting anything?

On February 12 2014 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote:

"This has to be fake, no way"

On February 12 2014 11:50 Grackaroni wrote:
You feel pretty off this game. When I was mafia in Golden Sun you made a really threatening series of questions and I thought you were going to trap me. here you asked me why I was going to wait until nominations and said it was important to your read of me and then proceeded to bash on my laziness.

On February 12 2014 12:14 WaveofShadow wrote:

Because you didn't answer me when I wanted you to.
I even explained exactly why I questioned you.
No traps, I wanted to see if I could get you to be useful.

Why are you re-asking me things we've already been over?

On February 12 2014 12:22 WaveofShadow wrote:

It was important for me to be able to determine your alignment if you could come up with a useful and coherent response at the time. You didn't/couldn't so I couldn't make a judgment call.
It's way easier for me to do that when I can actually talk with people and I believe up to that point we hadn't had a proper conversation?

Let's talk about Oats a little. Why is his weird ragey thing indicative of scum?

On February 12 2014 12:24 WaveofShadow wrote:

Just in case what?
None of them were scum.

On February 12 2014 12:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
well if geript didnt replace i wouldnt think its a big deal. I just think its weird that wave is willing to totally ignore/lynch keir even though he clearly wants to play the game and will give input, scum or not.

On February 12 2014 23:13 marvellosity wrote:
Good job I've got Grack here to parrot me, dunno what i'd do without him

On February 13 2014 00:28 marvellosity wrote:

This question strikes me as exceptionally odd.

On February 13 2014 01:59 marvellosity wrote:

Anyone can answer this question if they like beeteedubs. In depth reasoning gets extra brownie points.

On February 13 2014 02:07 marvellosity wrote:
And you look all the scummier for it :>

On February 13 2014 02:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you think it's the first one Grack, then why are you voting for Holyflare instead of Keir?

On February 13 2014 02:13 marvellosity wrote:

This certainly never happened.

On February 13 2014 02:18 marvellosity wrote:

Quite a good reason not to so again :p
Whenever I sheep I lynch town :/

On February 13 2014 02:23 marvellosity wrote:
Can I tell you a secret? I've not even read that post.

:<

On February 13 2014 02:49 marvellosity wrote:
VA hates being mislynched.

On February 13 2014 02:58 marvellosity wrote:
I just had the dangerous thought that Grack could well be town :<

On February 13 2014 03:03 marvellosity wrote:
no, I have no theories beyond VA right now.

On February 13 2014 08:04 Holyflare wrote:
Your posting is also indicative of an agenda of "holyflare is afk let's get a mislynch wagon on him" when you have stated yourself that VA was scum based on a slip. Your reason for voting me was "I'll explain tomorrow", "I can't explain but let's lynch him anyway".

On February 12 2014 05:31 Holyflare wrote:
also will most probably be voting for palmar because i think marv's/rayn's read are more correct and they can read me a lot better

alsoooooooooooooo giant walls of text will be coming

On February 13 2014 08:20 Palmar wrote:


So... you're saying you're awful town?

Being right is like the least useful skill in mafia. People keep harping on "I was right but town was shit" but in reality if you can't avoid getting lynched as town, no matter how right you are, you're worthless to the team.

If all townies can avoid getting lynched, game is ez, so don't be the worst player, don't get lynched!

On February 13 2014 08:34 Koshi wrote:
I don't like any of you.
If only rayn was alive.
He is really cool.


But seriously. VA. u scum bro.

On February 13 2014 09:02 Holyflare wrote:
Why are you still harping on about my case? I think you are scum but I think geript/keir are also scum. Let's lynch him.



I am literally calling you out on this shit.

##unvote
##vote keirathi

On February 13 2014 09:07 Holyflare wrote:


HAH
HAH
HAH
HAH

THIS IS SO GOOD, literally gold.

On February 13 2014 09:15 Holyflare wrote:


NO, I stated the reason that I kept the players around that I did. YOU stated you wanted to keep the player that "entertained" you the most. Then flip flopped around when people were giving out town reads and finally landed on the guy that had you as his top scum read.

When I flip green lynch this guy in 48 hours. This is testament to a terrible town atmosphere when nobody discusses shit and then afk's with 15 minutes to go in a deadline. GG.

On February 13 2014 09:18 Holyflare wrote:
Rayn can also read you better as "marv always gets me wrong", just like you said.

On February 13 2014 23:23 Holyflare wrote:
You cannot complain about people being shit when you were a pretentious asshole that told me "You should cater your reads to the town" and almost got another towny lynched off which would be auto win for a VA mislynch in 2 days instead of reading what I wrote and discussing it you told me lul you gonna die and afk'd only to then ask marv what to do. Real hypocrtical of you.

As for who is scum I'm pretty sure I need to change a few things around based on what just happened.

b]VisceraEyes (1): Risen, Keirathi
VayneAuthority (5): Oatsmaster, Palmar, Koshi, Marvellosity, VisceraEyes, Risen, marvellosity, Koshi, Holyflare
Keirathi (1): WaveofShadow, Palmar, Holyflare
Oatsmaster (0): Grackaroni
Holyflare (4): Grackaroni, Grackaroni, VayneAuthority, Risen, marvellosity , Koshi, Palmar, Holyflare
WaveofShadow (1): yamato77
Grackaroni (0): Koshi, Holyflare

This was the final vote count. The wagon on me started initially because VA had a read on me based on nothing and then grack decided to join him and add to that nothingness case with nothing. Shortly after that people followed on. Marvellosity, Risen, Koshi, Palmar.

Koshi and marv finally got off me and marv is town but the remaining people Grack/Risen/Palmar are HIGHLY likely to contain mafia. The best method for scum to win the game would have been to kill a person that was town that wasn't VA because VA would have been a very very easy mislynch in the next lynch phase and so what better way to do that then to stick to the person that wasn't around and then afk when things seem to happen.

I've already made my case against grack and he states the timeline is wrong (not sure it is) but the rest of it still stands, his reads do not add up and he doesn't follow a coherent thought process through the entire game. Even now he is "frustrated" that nobody listens to him after not playing the game for 3 WHOLE DAYS and wondering why????

Palmar, I am so so so confused by him. Thought he was town, still kind of do, but his play around the lynch deadline and interactions around that are so bad it's frustrating to continue reading him as town. Why would he flat out ignore everything I wrote just to say "grack is town to me" and THEN lynch me off based on nothing straight after I made the case instead of generating discussion and trying to solve the game? He then asked marv to pretty much make his read for him at the end of the day:



and marv didn't respond and he proceeded to further afk and THEN THE NEXT DAY CALL EVERYONE ELSE BAD FOR NOT PLAYING. This doesn't align with what I see as someone who wants to win by finding the remaining mafia.

Risen on the other hand has done nothing all game, has sheeped reads, sheeped marv and then when marv went back off me he decided to turn sheep mode off and not listen to anything despite not being around for the times when it counts. He then did not do anything at deadline but afk. He is quite likely scum for this because I know he was around at the deadline time.

On February 13 2014 23:47 Holyflare wrote:


I hope you are actually kidding. I was afk when half the votes were placed onto me and MARVELOSSITY JOINED THE WAGON. That was the easiest scum switch to an afk person lynch that wasn't VA in the history of TL Mafia. There would be nobody looking bad because "oh he was afk" and when I returned I got angry that nobody was discussing shit so then it's "oh why would he rage as town". So portraying that as something bad would be ridiculous. Scum only need 1 more mislynch to win and who would be the easiest mislynch in the land? Oh yeh that's VA.

On February 13 2014 23:53 Holyflare wrote:


Ignoring the fact that those 3 could be not-town lurkers? Marv switched on his own volition not because you "convinced" him. You had no input in his switch whatsoever because you had NO reason to vote me just like VA. You weren't on the VA wagon who you called scum the entirety of the past 2 days and he flipped town, that looks so bad.

On February 13 2014 23:57 Holyflare wrote:
and I'm here posting now and doing vote analysis and YOU are shitting on me on such insignificant points and not helping to progress the game. Yet you are the one that wants to quit?! Where is the logic there at all.

On February 13 2014 23:58 Holyflare wrote:


marv can easily start a counter wagon on his own ~_~ as can be seen since 3 people joined the wagon after he did and not when you "convinced" him

On February 14 2014 00:01 Holyflare wrote:


You have 0 basis for voting me, the person that you had called scum only in the past day because of something "you'd explain in the morning" only to then NOT explain it and get "frustrated" when people didn't listen to you. Risen consolidated to avoid shenanigans and then DID SHENANIGANS and afk'd on someone that wasn't around. Palmar didn't even read anything I wrote about you and said you were town and then complained that I wasn't catering to the audience and voted me for being angry only to then want to sheep marv but marv wasn't around so then he afk'd.

Only me, you and koshi were around for the vote. That is terrible.

On February 14 2014 00:02 Holyflare wrote:
You also called VA scum for the past 2 days only to NOT vote him because you wanted to vote me who was afk.

On February 14 2014 00:04 Holyflare wrote:


So your frustration is then fake?

On February 14 2014 00:06 Holyflare wrote:
This thread was fucking dead. I could have just afk'd like 3/4 of the people in this game and got on with my life but here I am trying to do SOME analysis even if you call it fucking "bad".

On February 14 2014 00:07 Holyflare wrote:


Except for the fact that marv does a shit load of research to form his reads and can coherently portray them to the thread and then get his scum target lynched whereas you go on "feels" without playing the game and troll for 3 days and then complain about it? Many similarities

On February 14 2014 00:10 Holyflare wrote:


he only voted me because I wasn't around, not because I was scum, which as can be seen was dropped when I returned to the thread

On February 14 2014 00:11 Holyflare wrote:


it's nothing to do with meta, ALL my games have more than 6-10 pages on day 1 regardless of scum or town so when I have no activity it's because i'm busy

On February 14 2014 00:12 Holyflare wrote:


he changed his read based off information in the game that he could analyse later when he had free time because he was sure VA was scum, coupled with the fact that he no longer wanted to play you are an asshat