EPTOn February 10 2014 10:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Sooooo who's getting nominated? I bet it will be Marv/Palmar/Yamato
Sooooo who's getting nominated? I bet it will be Marv/Palmar/Yamato
I'd be fine with that, ez marv lynch.
[C][M][T] Survivor Series Mafia - Page 4
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Palmar
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I'd be fine with that, ez marv lynch. | ||
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On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: Moot now, but Cora flipping mafia evidently doesn't make you even close to confirmed town, you should know this with your experience But it should've made me at least very likely town, given how he had been pushing me before he even got into much trouble himself. Also do you think I'm smart enough to make that bold claim as mafia, knowing he was never going to flip mafia? Possible, but not probable. On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: General appeal to "subjective" and "objective" scumminess which isn't specific in this post but across the rest of your posts. There's no such thing as subjective or objective scumminess really, and pushing "objective" scumminess is a cop out for pushing bad lynches because people are doing "bad" things. Maybe I'm using the terms incorrectly, but here's what I meant. Whenever I say "objective reasons" it's something that is done by the player that is inherently scummy, no matter who does it. This can be pushing shitty lynches, not reading the thread, lurking, making bad comments, expecting other people to play the game for you etc etc. Anything directly done by the player in question that should always raise some alarms. Whenever I said "subjective reasons", I mean something that is not directly related to this player's posting in the current game, and depends on some external factor. This could be meta-ish (ex: "I'd expect him to rage here but he didn't"). There is nothing scummy about not raging, unless you factor in something else. But in THIS case I mostly meant stuff like how easy the wagon was, how silly his vote would be if mafia, how no one was really defending him etc. So at least now you know what I mean, I think you're smart enough to see why these aren't the same, even if my I misused some terms. On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: Random-ass unexplained list of people you want to lynch, including me, who you should "subjectively" not be wanting to lynch by this stage in the game. Including me in this list makes you bad or mafia, and I hold you to higher standards than I do the rest of this game. You hadn't, and still really haven't, done much to help a game along that desperately needed focused discussion. It was clear that my push on geript which at the time was I think one of the few well-constructed theories in the game wasn't really being listened to because apparently he is immune to being scum (thank you based Corazon). We really could've used some focused discussion from you, but instead you did a vote on Oats that felt almost disinterested, and only explained it when I asked you to, and turned out your reasons were basically just meta stuff I can't really connect with as I haven't played with Oats nearly as much as you. I mean I could just sheep you in that case, but you hardly even tried to convince anyone you're town. So yeah, I dumped you in the list of people more likely to be mafia, but I don't pretend to think I was entirely right on every mafia on day one, and I didn't actively push for your lynch (in hindsight, you may have noted I specifically did not join that tiny marv-wagon that was forming). You're being decisively null, I wish you did something to convince us one way or the other. On February 10 2014 22:01 marvellosity wrote: Random ellipses with yamato, why even bother saying it? What is the whole post trying to achieve? Why not say it? Do you think less information is helpful in any way? I sincerely have no idea about yamato. I think my early game notes said something like "useless, but I guess he's often useless so idk". I'm still unsure on him. From where I currently stand there is a pool of gray pile in the middle-ish of this game, mostly made up of experienced players, and I'm having a hard time figuring out who's what. I still think geript is scum. I still think WoS and Risen are unlikely to be scum. I still think Oats and VA are somewhat unlikely to be scum. Holyflare actually came on strong when he started posting, so that's good, but his long absence is sort of discomforting, along with the fact that he brought very little new discussion. Although his questioning of me tonight has been pretty good. This leaves a bit of a mess with you, rayn, kosher, yamato, ve and grack in it, where I think 3 are scum. at least 2 but maybe 3. Clearing you would help a lot figuring out this game. | ||
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On February 10 2014 23:51 marvellosity wrote: VA is quite likely to be scum I think, why don't you think so? His move off Corazon felt really contrived towards the end of the day. Voting Oats with "shenannies" with this reasoning: - and then when pressed by me on how/why, he said: And yet, despite the fact it didn't look like his scumgame and maybe it was all some sort of game - his vote remained on Oats at the end of the day. Basically an astonishing misuse of his vote that apparently no-one notices or cares about. Because it's VA? Sure, it's strange, but are you certain there is benefit in mafia for doing what he did? I just decided it was illogical as either faction really. I don't believe "getting off a wagon" is a thing because anyone who is reading the game knows he was on Corazon, in addition he didn't do anything to claim credit for "moving off Cora". He made a random statement about the attitude of Cora that may well be right. I actually agree Cora's hyper aggressiveness at the end made him less likely to be scum. So why did he do it? Shenanigans? sure, but is that alignment indicative? Maybe it is, please explain to me why. I had a weak town-read on him for some early game posts. Most notably this one. On February 08 2014 11:25 VayneAuthority wrote: I'd say the mafia team would not bother chatting with eachother this early, if they have even showed up at all. Can probably put mutually exclusive brackets on geript(wave,yamato) This just felt like a pretty good random observation to make at the time. It's a bit of Vivax logic but I like vivax logic. On February 09 2014 16:14 VayneAuthority wrote: pretty much I will agree on any policy involving lynching the less desirable players even if it includes myself after giving it some thought. There is no reason for mafia to not nominate all the more townie looking people and make town pick off the better players. So it is really in our best interests to weed out those not participating as much (I realize that is me right now, but day 1 I am never that active) Also this feels like sort-of straightforward attitude. I'm no expert at reading this guy obviously, but I need to be convinced that I should think he's scum. I wish he participated more though. | ||
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Palmar
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If one of you guys is scum I'm going to come back to this moment. If both of you are... well played. | ||
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On February 11 2014 00:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar who do you think is mafia? I have a hard time following where you are atm. Until I started posting today: you/marv/VE/geript. Now I'm not so sure, your conversation feels genuine enough, and marv seems to be actually listening and evaluating so I don't know. Also you don't have to be posting right now (see: yamato, ve, etc) but you are. I think I made a pretty good summary of where I stand now a few posts back. I still want to lynch geript, and I'm really warming up to the idea of lynching VE. So yeah, I'm going to have to reevaluate my reads a bit. Some of the people I mostly ignored on day 1 (grack, yamato) might need some harder looking at. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: imo Slam was pretty clearly town based on how happy he was. Someone (geript maybe?) said you read Slam based purely on if he is happy or not and i think that's true. Alakaslam looked pretty town. Kosher not so much, but I don't think he's a good lynch tomorrow. | ||
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in general I agree with this sentiment: On February 11 2014 00:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: WoS is amongst the players who actually seem like they are trying to do something. | ||
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I take it to mean that your story here marv, is that WoS is softly pushing Corazon, but decides against joining that wagon in favor of trying to buy town credit for not being on the mislynch and then raging about it? Let's broaden the question too, do you think the wagon on Corazon was a "safe" wagon for the mafia. Do you think there are multiple scum on him? | ||
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None of my stronger scumreads are on the wagon. I'm town, and I think Risen is too. I don't really want to lynch Koshi, Holyflare looks ok, and marv/rayn are doing a better job tonight than they did yesterday. VA was on the wagon too, but as I already mentioned, I don't see anything particularly scummy about his actions, and while I have no reason to think I'm being lied to that he always plays mafia like that, I'd rather trust my own feeling for now. So that really just leaves yamato. Maybe there were no mafia on the wagon, but I just find that kind of unlikely. I need to read Grack. his lone-ranger vote is a bit strange (so is geript's, but we all know he's scum anyway). | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:35 marvellosity wrote: VA was off the wagon in the end, have you not been reading any of my posts on him? :p I'm aware, unfortunate wording (I already posted something like "people are going to remember he was on the cora wagon") I said "VA was on the wagon too" and I meant "VA used to be on the wagon too" Or something like that, you get what I said. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar why does Holyflare look okay? I found his post about some of the votes worrying. This one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442512¤tpage=41#803 This to me (especially considering the timing) looks like "let's find some people suspicious given that Cora will flip town". This posts doesn't seem to be achieving anything and Holyflare brings it up later with a mindset that to me reads like "look what i said earlier". Mostly because I felt his approach to talking to me after the lynch was relatively healthy. It's entirely possible I may be mistaking tentative with reasonable (ie, given people like Cora called me scum for no reason, it's nice to talk to people who actually ask questions and respond), but yeah. I thought his questioning was indicative of someone who had an actual interest in finding out what went on. | ||
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Holyflare actually asked concise questions. | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: I find it problematic because he does not really have any insight to provide in those particular "reads" (i don't even know what he is trying to say). Like he points out something that is suspicious (??), doesn't say why and ends up with a question "are all these people scum", like someone else needs to decide for him. Then he brings the same thing up again after the lynch. Maybe I'm putting too much value into how he interacted with me, and not enough in what else he said. who knows. | ||
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should we lynch yamato to make him mad? | ||
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On February 11 2014 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: We could do that, then when he calls us all idiots and retards we know he is town and we can switch to WoS or VE.  VE being vastly the better choice of those two. | ||
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I'm totally off the WoS=town wagon now. | ||
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