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On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy but then again i remember him doing same kinda stuff as town too".
I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent.
There you go rayn. I disagree with your statement that bumatlarge has said VE has been doing townie things.
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@Rayn
I agree that he's not making strong statements and that he seems to be overthinking the 'what if I'm wrong' part of his argument. However, I had a peek at bum's previous games and he plays the same sort of non-commital game as townie.
I think his case makes sense minus the wishy-washiness, and I agree with him that VE has been playing scummy (kush being second on my list).
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On January 21 2014 03:20 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 02:49 suki wrote:On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote:
To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point. why did you feel the need to clarify that right now?
Because Rayn is tunneling him and twisting his words and I think it's unproductive.
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On January 21 2014 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not even voting for him after his first clarification. Where did you get the idea that i am tunneling him?
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On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy but then again i remember him doing same kinda stuff as town too".
I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent.
Perhaps it's just a difference in interpretation, but you start grilling bumatlarge for being 'inconsistent' when I don't see one.
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On January 21 2014 03:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 03:32 suki wrote:On January 21 2014 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not even voting for him after his first clarification. Where did you get the idea that i am tunneling him? - - - On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy but then again i remember him doing same kinda stuff as town too".
I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent. Perhaps it's just a difference in interpretation, but you start grilling bumatlarge for being 'inconsistent' when I don't see one. What, you even agreed with me in saying the case is wishy-washy. How can you call me out for "twisting his words" when you agree with me, because that was what i was saying before he clarified his case?
I agreed that it was wishy-washy, but I disagree with your statement that his reads were inconsistent. I think his 1., 2., 3. points were clearly points towards a VE scum theory, wishy-washyness aside. You were making it sound like he was going back and forth without a clear reason and then just randomly voted against VE without providing evidence.
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On January 21 2014 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:bumatlarge: Show nested quote +In no way is it "entirely false". Suki points out multiple lapses in VE's thought process. You can change your mind, but throwing phrases out like, "that's dumb" or "I'm indifferent" are strong blanket statements to lay down. Clearly VE is either rapidly changing his mind throughout his posts, giving us no indication of where it's going, or he is not thinking his posts through, which he shouldn't be doing as town. I say point out that VE is capable of doing this as town. There is nothing wrong in those quotes suki brought up. VE thinks kush's plan is bad and VE is not sure if claiming/not claiming Boxers is best play. Where is the inconsistancy? He does not change his mind anywhere. Show nested quote +Interpretation is key. I clearly mean "I think VE is scum, and the only thing making me reconsider is if he actually posts like this as town." I have played quite a few games with VE, but they were a while ago. All in all, I think Rayn misconstrued what I said here, an possibly purposefully. Townies do do this with analysis, because they want to be right, especially if an ego is present, and interpretation is where alot of analyses hit speed bumps. I do think Rayn is scum here though. You said "i think VE is scum but i need to go back and look if he does this as town". That's exactly what you said. Did you go back and look at if he does that as town or not? Does he do that as town or not?
On January 21 2014 02:49 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote:
To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point.
My thought process: bumatlarge agreed with my initial case against VE. It was pointed out that my case was bad and I had mistakenly thought VE was talking about one topic when he was talking about two. Bumatlarge, having agreed with my post, was now coming under fire from Rayn who asked him to point out the inconsistency.
He then said, he was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. I then posted my townread on bum to back him up because I felt like Rayn was going to attack him on this point and I think it would have been a waste of effort.
In hindsight, Rayn was pressuring bum for answers but not accusing him of scum behaviour and there was no reason to have to back bum up.
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@Rayn
'twisting his words' was too strong a phrase to use. You misrepresented them might be a better choice of words? You stating that bum wasn't providing evidence against VE was incorrect, because he did provide evidence - again, minus the wishy-washiness.
Your point on people saying 'he could be mafia, but then he could also be town' is true and I generally see that as a scum tell. However, I did not get that feeling from bum and especially not so now after reading through some of his past filters.
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On January 21 2014 03:31 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 03:25 suki wrote:On January 21 2014 03:20 kushm4sta wrote:On January 21 2014 02:49 suki wrote:On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote:
To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point. why did you feel the need to clarify that right now? Because Rayn is tunneling him and twisting his words and I think it's unproductive. Why would putting your townread on the record change any of that though?
I also find it ironic that you of all people are asking me this question.
On January 20 2014 22:23 kushm4sta wrote:
Feels
thrawn's town.
wiley is town
i think rayn is town
i think VE is town
balla is scummy for being a scumhunter extraordinaire yet doing nothing
Tell me, why did you feel the need to clarify that you felt all those people were town?
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On January 21 2014 04:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
So? Neither of those "easy route" things make me scum or even scummy. Who cares if they're "easy"? Does that make the points I raise any less valid? And what if Bum is scum Artanis? Just because bum attacked me first, am I supposed to go after someone else just because bum is "too easy" now? Or Wile, just because rayn attacked him first, am I supposed to find a different target just because Wile is "too easy" now? Even if he's scum? These points don't make any sense.
What points?
You call WileE's claim scummy by saying it's 'bad', and outright ignore questions asking you to elaborate why mafia would ever claim 5 hours into the game.
You sheep onto Rayn after he posts his case on bum:
On January 20 2014 22:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah that all looks really bad.
with your only elaboration being:
On January 20 2014 23:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
What do you think of bum kush? I liked rayns post on the matter, and agree he looks bad. What do you think?
Before you vote bum. For no other explanation that you like rayn's post, which amounted to 'bum is being wishy-washy'.
The difference between you and bum is that bum actually scum hunted and made arguments. What about you? All you've done is called out people for being 'bad' and then call them scum for it. The only analysis you've provided is 'This guy is bad at the game therefore he is scummy.'
Your arguments are weak and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over when pressured, which is some variation of OMGUS.
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Also thrawn you're asking a lot of people to contribute their reads, how about you?
Do you still find kush scummy? Who else looks scummy to you?
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On January 21 2014 06:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because sheeping / agreeing with someone does not make anyone mafia. Also his reaction to Artanis calling bum the towniest town was pure town!VE.
Sheeping/agreeing with someone doesn't make anyone mafia, but VE has failed to contribute anything to the game aside from OMGUS and policy talk.
So VE is town in your eyes purely from a meta read.
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You know what, I agree with you Barristan.
I think Zarepath's case on VE is just a list of points that tries to squeeze out any sort of scumminess. It's weak, but he sounds like he's trying so hard to make it work. His follow up posts are all trying to keep up the pressure on VE.
Compared to the filter linked by Barristan, Zarepath's tone has changed completely. In his previous game filter he had no problem listing off a bunch of people who he thought were scummy, and doing a bunch of analysis. In this game he's only talked about VE and no one else, and VE is not the only suspicious person in this game.
##unvote
##vote Zarepath
I'm going to lay off VE for a bit. Pressuring him is going nowhere and I think he's defended well.
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I think Zarepath smells like a scum who is trying hard to make a townie look scummy.
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On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote:
I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town.
"Because he (is) probably wrong about you"
VE is accusing WileE of being scum.
Bum thinks WileE is probably town.
-> VE is probably wrong about WileE being scum.
I don't think it's a slip.
If you assume that bum is mafia, then why would he add in 'probably'? To put it another way, if bum had instead said '... he is holding back because he is wrong about you.' that is what I would call a slip, because bum would have just given away the fact that he knows what WileE's alignment is.
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On January 21 2014 10:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's changed between these posts?
Several things...
First, I felt that it was becoming 'too easy' to attack VE, especially with bum and now zarepath making big cases on him that essentially say the same things but in many words. I felt VE was just reiterating the same thing over and over in his defenses, and the attacks were not coming up with new/interesting points.
Second, I feel that his blow up was townie. I also feel that martyrdom is generally a more townie thing to do. However I didn't want to put a lot of stock into it because I haven't played with him and hence can't really interpret his meta.
Third, I'm honestly a bit intimidated by you guys. I think rayn, your meta read that he's town is something I can trust for now (at least until we see a bit more from VE). I also felt hurt when VE straight up said he was ignoring me, but that sort of attitude also feels townie to me.
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VE I will admit that my heart started hurting when you said you were ignoring me but it's okay! We can still be friends~
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I think Balla is looking more suspicious for not contributing.
I also don't like Jonny's play this game. It's a lot less coherent than our previous game together.
Balla, Jonny: I want to see more activity from both of you. Specifically, your top two scum reads and why.
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On January 21 2014 10:49 JonnyLaw wrote:
rayn, you know i posted like once a cycle in that game. wos warned me for activity. Sandro called me scum early and never backed off.
Suki same thing. You want more from me? Who's posted more? Not you. That's a certainty.
I can't pin kush as scum but I dislike his play as town. I have both games I played with him. That's the only reason I don't try to push it harder.
What's with the hostility? All I want is some scum hunting.
Also I have posted more, so I don't understand what you're trying to argue here.
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If kush is bussing bum then this has to be the worst bus I've ever seen. He's insistent on calling it a scum slip but no one else agrees.
Surely if kush and bum were both scum, and kush was bussing bum, kush could find much better reasons to bus him than some super WIFOM-y semantics scum slip.
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Balla
I think Balla's activity is strangely low compared to my last game with him, however reading his filter I feel like his tone is similar to the townie tone that I had in NMM LI. That is, he asks a ton of questions, postures a lot, but doesn't actually press his suspicions. When I was mafia in NMM LI I was actually initially planning to try to get a mislynch on him in Day 3 because I noticed while he pressured a ton of people, he never actually made cases himself.
Of course we ended up shooting him N2 because his pressure was just too good.
My read on Balla right now is neutral, leaning a bit towards town. His tone is more townie to me, and I think his case on Crossfire is characteristic of Balla, because Balla himself likes to jump around (albeit without voting), so he's basically defending his own meta (which isn't showing up this game, strangely). I don't like how he voted Crossfire at the end and then disappeared without any other comments. I want to hear his thoughts on more people.
TLDR: I read Balla as neutral, leaning a bit towards town. Overall tone feels kinda townie, but his lack of activity is suspicious, and his vote on Crossfire followed by disappearance is suspicious. Expect more activity, more pressure Day 2 from him. Do not like him as a Day 1 lynch.
To Balla: Can you please explain maybe in a sentence why there's such a huge change in your activity? And what we can expect from you going forward? Also, reads please. I asked for your top two scum reads earlier and you only talked about Crossfire.
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EPT
