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On January 11 2014 13:37 Derrida wrote:
Guys, Derrida confirmed town, come on. I wish posting screenshots of inbox was not banned.
Aside from that, I am trying to read through the other games you guys played together, which is a stupidly enormous task on its own, it's like playing 3-4 mafia games simultaneously. As I'm the newbie here, could someone summarize me why a player's attitude in previous games matter? I would assume we are all above-average intelligent people here who could take on a new persona in every new game, no? Even when taking on a new persona, it is difficult to take on a new persona.
It is easy to say you will play differently. It is much more difficult to follow through, or to hold conversations and not slip into whatever your default scum or default town posting style may be. Using past games/interest levels/whatever is more effective with some players than others, but is of >0 value.
Conduct in this game still more important, but past games can shade conduct in this game.
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On January 11 2014 13:37 Derrida wrote:
Guys, Derrida confirmed town, come on. I wish posting screenshots of inbox was not banned.
Aside from that, I am trying to read through the other games you guys played together, which is a stupidly enormous task on its own, it's like playing 3-4 mafia games simultaneously. As I'm the newbie here, could someone summarize me why a player's attitude in previous games matter? I would assume we are all above-average intelligent people here who could take on a new persona in every new game, no?
The issue is Derrida that HF thinks he knows me from playing numerous games of voice mafia together so has put together what he considers a personality thing.
What he doesnt add into his consideration (whether intentionally or not) is that Im not meant to be playing mafia this yaer.
I said my last game woudl be my last.
I changed my mind for some personal reasons, but my willingness/time committments are different.
His meta case is terrible because its based on outdated information.
My issue with him is how he has used a forced read on you as a medium to pursue other people.
I find that scummy.
Rayn has done the same thing.
I think Artanis looks better for sticking to his guns in general.
I still havent read your posts in detail so my scum subset is {Derrida, Rayn, HF}.
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Vote Count
Mocsta (1) - Artanis[Xp], raynpelikoneet, Holyflare
Derrida (1) - Mocsta, Artanis[Xp], GGTeMpLaR, Mocsta, Artanis[Xp]
GGTeMpLaR (1) raynpelikoneet, Giggletummy
HolyFlare (0) Derrida
raynpelikoneet (1) Artanis[Xp]
Artanis[Xp] (1) raynpelikoneet
Giggletummy (1) GGTeMpLaR
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 13:28 Giggletummy wrote:
Your case/vote was B2B comparison + followup on derrida + voice mafia/IML comments.
I can't prove or disprove the voice mafia/IML comments, but it would be curious for you to lie about that. I disagree with your characterization of following up with derrida saying he'd do something. So I'm left with the B2B comparison to consider. Yes, mocsta's lazier attitude does not make him not scum, but it makes your case look weaker, because you didn't present those thoughts before. You just compared his play to one town game and went with that.
I'm not playing a 1 on 1 game with you so when I make a statement I expect you to do research to verify whether my claims are true or not in regards to meta because that is what a sensible towny would do and it allows me to see who is putting effort into this game. You can look into games where he is both scum and town I do not need to provide all the evidence because based on Mocsta's post I can pretty much confirm him as scum in my mind so I find it INCREDIBLY suspicious that he is your favourite out of me/rayn/him.
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On January 11 2014 13:56 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 13:28 Giggletummy wrote:
Your case/vote was B2B comparison + followup on derrida + voice mafia/IML comments.
I can't prove or disprove the voice mafia/IML comments, but it would be curious for you to lie about that. I disagree with your characterization of following up with derrida saying he'd do something. So I'm left with the B2B comparison to consider. Yes, mocsta's lazier attitude does not make him not scum, but it makes your case look weaker, because you didn't present those thoughts before. You just compared his play to one town game and went with that. I'm not playing a 1 on 1 game with you so when I make a statement I expect you to do research to verify whether my claims are true or not in regards to meta because that is what a sensible towny would do and it allows me to see who is putting effort into this game. You can look into games where he is both scum and town I do not need to provide all the evidence because based on Mocsta's post I can pretty much confirm him as scum in my mind so I find it INCREDIBLY suspicious that he is your favourite out of me/rayn/him. I did do the research. That's why I said that yes, B2B looks different, but so do his other games. Seriously though, look at that newbie game I linked.
I'm more than interested in hearing you turn a critical eye towards rayn, even if you still end up townie on him.
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The newbie filter is worth looking at because bright-eyed fresh mocsta was using all sorts of bold and italics and lists and making these giant headings and just prettying up his posts. And now he is a grizzled infantryman, down in the trenches, posting nary a space or punctuation mark, and sometimes he only types in wingdings. At least some of this post contains true statements.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 13:42 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 13:37 Derrida wrote:
Guys, Derrida confirmed town, come on. I wish posting screenshots of inbox was not banned.
Aside from that, I am trying to read through the other games you guys played together, which is a stupidly enormous task on its own, it's like playing 3-4 mafia games simultaneously. As I'm the newbie here, could someone summarize me why a player's attitude in previous games matter? I would assume we are all above-average intelligent people here who could take on a new persona in every new game, no? The issue is Derrida that HF thinks he knows me from playing numerous games of voice mafia together so has put together what he considers a personality thing. What he doesnt add into his consideration (whether intentionally or not) is that Im not meant to be playing mafia this yaer. I said my last game woudl be my last. I changed my mind for some personal reasons, but my willingness/time committments are different. His meta case is terrible because its based on outdated information. My issue with him is how he has used a forced read on you as a medium to pursue other people. I find that scummy. Rayn has done the same thing. I think Artanis looks better for sticking to his guns in general. I still havent read your posts in detail so my scum subset is {Derrida, Rayn, HF}.
Like this post is SO full of crap, it's actually funny. Whether he decides to play or not in this game adds no relevance to the past present or future or any of your reads. It is wholly meant to discredit what I am saying.
The REAL REAL issue I have with his post is this:
His meta case is terrible because its based on outdated information.
My issue with him is how he has used a forced read on you as a medium to pursue other people.
I find that scummy.
Rayn has done the same thing.
The case I linked (B2B is a very very recent game with him and I in it), the game I talked about where we rolled scum was LXIII Here is Mocsta's filter seeing as this was also the most recent game (LXIV only just started today) I find it ridiculous that he says his that it is in fact "outdated" when it is most definitely not.
Now, to top that all off here are things that he does that do not follow a logical towny thought process in this post:
1. As you all remember his only contributions this game have been calling out Derrida and voting him. You'd think on his return to the thread the first thing he'd be looking out for was posts on the way that Derrida has made to confirm or refute his thought process. The fact that his first post states that he has not read posts from Derrida in detail is a red flag for me.
I still havent read your posts in detail so my scum subset is {Derrida, Rayn, HF}.
2. For someone who was SO SO confident that Derrida was scum (he never took his vote off Derrida after he put it on there) and was allowing him to be hammered (even if he didn't know what the votes were - he should make it 100% certain as town because he has intent to lynch) based on 8 posts in his filter, the thing that would be on Mocsta's mind is that Derrida is most likely/probably scum from his perspective and so when you read the post at the top his interaction with Derrida would be aprehensive/taken aback/not trying to convince Derrida that I am scum because of discrediting his post. Yet, as we can see this is quite clearly not the case, his words act like he's trying to tell Derrida that I am scummy rather than the reaction that Mocsta should of had if he was town.
On January 11 2014 13:36 Giggletummy wrote:
HF have you played many games with rayn?
Yes, I have played many many games with rayn and so when I say I will not lynch him 100% today I mean it because I think the thought process he has laid out makes him look more towny and the vote switching that people usually accredit to scum are staple rayn moves as both alignments so that should be a non-alignment indicative action. In fact that indecision is what I see rayn do when he doesn't know what to think between his choices.
All I can say to the rest of you is that what reason does someone have to switch their votes all the time as scum? You can say he would be trying to start a wagon on someone by throwing shit at people and seeing what sticks but where is he pushing everyone to vote his targets? It isn't happening. He's got a read of potentially 3 people and when they do something that he thinks is scummy he votes that person.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 12:35 Giggletummy wrote:
Why not tonight? You, HF, mocsta probably have a scum or two in there, keep on fighting and let's pick out the scum!
This is also a ridiculous thing to say. If I was scum I could just bandwagon on with the rest of the people that were voting Derrida (who I think is town) and nobody would think anything of it because the majority of the people on the wagon wouldn't think too heavily on that individual action yet here he is still alive and kicking. You still have not even mentioned that lynch whatsoever other than to stop it. Why is that? Is there no information to be gathered from that entire debacle? Why should there "probably" be a scum between me,rayn and mocsta? There is no basis for this statement, no justification and you expect us to follow it?
If you are thinking that there is scum between one of us 3 why have you only gone so far as to research Mocsta's meta so deeply yet have not looked into me and rayn (but we are your scummy reads right and mocsta isn't really anymore?) but still call us scummy. Why should I be the one telling you about rayn's games and putting in all the work. Why don't you convince ME of a read instead of driving on asking questions with no real conclusions.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 14:00 Giggletummy wrote:
The newbie filter is worth looking at because bright-eyed fresh mocsta was using all sorts of bold and italics and lists and making these giant headings and just prettying up his posts. And now he is a grizzled infantryman, down in the trenches, posting nary a space or punctuation mark, and sometimes he only types in wingdings. At least some of this post contains true statements.
His initial post in LXIII has headings and colours and fonts, guess what, he was scum. I am not looking into a newbie game when he has played well over 10 other games that he has evolved in. His most recent games are by far the most representative. It's his actions in this game that contain many red flags:
1) Not caring if I vote him
2) Not forming a case on me (when he thinks I am scum..?) but instead just trying to discredit invdividual parts of the argument instead (classic tell of scum vs town)
3) Voting someone with 8 posts in a game without allowing him to defend despite his meta of hating people that do that (artanis and rayn can confirm)
4) His quite clear dislike of me forming a read based on personality from voice mafia:
The issue is Derrida that HF thinks he knows me from playing numerous games of voice mafia together so has put together what he considers a personality thing.
However at the beginning of the game he said: On January 10 2014 02:33 Mocsta wrote:Too much voice mafia influence I think here :S
but then very soon after that was quite comfortable slipping back into the groove of trolling (even though posts were starting to get more serious) by stating random things from voice mafia:
On January 10 2014 08:47 Mocsta wrote:HF in an attempt to copy Rayn ##hide
On January 10 2014 08:51 Mocsta wrote:
HF
How come you didnt claim medic?
On January 10 2014 08:51 Mocsta wrote:
Artanis
How come you didnt claim jester?
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Lol. HF. grasping at anything to support your pittance of a case.
You can't even delineate between sarcasm and reality.
"Too much voice mafia influence'... did you read the context of the post.
Clearly not.
Further, BttB is not a normal game as you would attest to others.
It was an opportunity to play your best town game - something I attempted openly; and certainly does not apply to this game. *sorry hosts*
The thing that is makes you scummy is that you are aware of outside game context behind my lack of care (Specifically time); yet you try and pin me down for this.
*Clap clap*
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
This part 2) Not forming a case on me (when he thinks I am scum..?) but instead just trying to discredit invdividual parts of the argument instead (classic tell of scum vs town) should read:
2) Not forming a case on me (when he thinks I am scum..?) but instead just trying to discredit invdividual parts of the argument TO HIS ORIGINAL TOP SCUM READ (classic tell of scum vs town)
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
You have played a game with me as scum, played with me when you were town and I was scum and seen me play a game as town before as I am "a better player from the most recent wave of newbies" you would know that the amount of huge effort I am putting into this game, trying to solve people's alignments quite literally confirms me as town (There are also other things that I don't want to say out loud but people should have automatically realised already). Your initial reaction wouldn't be "oh holyflare is totally scum now" if I am the only player to go balls to the wall on a person that hasn't really been mentioned over people that are read as initially scummy then that should already be a +town point in your mind, yet, your initial reaction is to try and discredit me to your first top scum read, tell me that you don't care if I place my vote on you and then eventually end up in an OMGUS but also still not put your vote on me.
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BROADCAST[
Holyflare is putting an "amount of huge effort into the game"..
Please DO NOT[ under any situation consider him as scum by Process of Elimination.
He is confirmed town.
Noted HF.
I wish my meta was that easy to copy.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Yeh, this recent string of posts from me/mocsta should all but confirm that he is scum.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Another anecdote for you guys; Mocsta is being incredibly hypocritical for calling me scum because I'm "not taking into account his lack of care", he quite literally knows I have exams on Monday and Tuesday that I am studying for (as I have repeated it many times and just pulled out of a LoL game with him so I can study for it) yet here I am STILL trying to post and solve the game and I have posted the most in this game so far. Why would I be doing that when I have NO time to play whatsoever? He doesn't even think about situations, reasons, meta, anything. Just that I'm totes scummy.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Also for anyone that actually wants to solve this game I have updated my profile with all of my games (I don't think I've missed any?) for you to look at if it helps you get better reads.
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Regarding Derrida:
I like that he came back to the thread with a "DGAF" attitude.
The assertiveness he is using when probing his reads to me is indicative of town. I am convinced that whether Derrida is town or scum; he believes what he is saying. This is definitely more difficult to do as scum - so overall I lean town for this point.
What I don't like about Derrida is his theory of 2 scum distancing when entering the thread.
There is zero discussion with his theoretical second scum (GGTemplar); and then later down the path, Derrida unvotes HF without stating the precursor. (I like your logic is NOT what I would state as definitive).
To me this dance rings true of what Derrida specifically thinks is good scum play. - but overall i think the assertiveness rules out the negative above.
The opener is clearly null -- so its concerning the people that tried to ride on it.
Therefore I consider him the towniest by far out of {Derrida, Rayn, Holyflare}.
I would go as far to seriously consider that a Rayn/Holyflare team went on an early crusade to call Derrida town to buy his trust.
Which leaves me with:
##Unvote
##Vote: Holyflare
Accusation:
- Weak cases
- Opportune efforts to jump onto players
- Misrepresented logic to force a read
- Overt commitment on early reads
- Conveniently ignores evidence that works against him.
- Over exerting "our" time together. What HF doesn't tell you in our combined scum game is that *I* lasted 48hrs and didn't interact with him. Yet he thinks he has the keys to my head.
This is the correct lynch
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On January 11 2014 15:16 Holyflare wrote:
Another anecdote for you guys; Mocsta is being incredibly hypocritical for calling me scum because I'm "not taking into account his lack of care", he quite literally knows I have exams on Monday and Tuesday that I am studying for (as I have repeated it many times and just pulled out of a LoL game with him so I can study for it) yet here I am STILL trying to post and solve the game and I have posted the most in this game so far. Why would I be doing that when I have NO time to play whatsoever? He doesn't even think about situations, reasons, meta, anything. Just that I'm totes scummy.
I'm working on a $300million project that is behind schedule.
I still find time to post as town or scum.
Stop laying on the excuses.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Yeh, he literally just copied everything I've been saying about Derrida the entire game...?
Accusation:
- Weak cases
- Opportune efforts to jump onto players
- Misrepresented logic to force a read
- Overt commitment on early reads
- Conveniently ignores evidence that works against him.
- Over exerting "our" time together. What HF doesn't tell you in our combined scum game is that *I* lasted 48hrs and didn't interact with him. Yet he thinks he has the keys to my head.
- Made 1 proper case this game only on Mocsta
- I haven't jumped on anyone other than Mocsta and it most certainly isn't opportune when people's consensus was NOT on him
- I made an initial read that Derrida was town based on the wagon that was formed, I inflated it incredibly to be confirmed town to see who would react to things like that. You think I can outright confirm someone just like that without having a plan?
- Not really sure where this has ocurred
- Just because I don't have the keys to his head does not mean I haven't read his other games. I am good at analysing IMO and this is what information I've gathered over my time playing with him.
His case is baseless (it's not even a case as there is no factual evidence........?), his read on Derrida has now come to the same conclusion that I had stated already, in fact his whole read is pretty much based on what I've been saying.
Also, why would I want Derrida's trust lolololol? He has 1 newbie game and 0 influence. Best partner to gain trust.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 15:43 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 15:16 Holyflare wrote:
Another anecdote for you guys; Mocsta is being incredibly hypocritical for calling me scum because I'm "not taking into account his lack of care", he quite literally knows I have exams on Monday and Tuesday that I am studying for (as I have repeated it many times and just pulled out of a LoL game with him so I can study for it) yet here I am STILL trying to post and solve the game and I have posted the most in this game so far. Why would I be doing that when I have NO time to play whatsoever? He doesn't even think about situations, reasons, meta, anything. Just that I'm totes scummy. I'm working on a $300million project that is behind schedule. I still find time to post as town or scum. Stop laying on the excuses.
Now look at the difference between our posting content and say the same thing.
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EPT
