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On January 21 2014 12:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hapapapapaaaaaa I'm here no questions? Nothing?
I'm voting for someone you know, no thoughts about that? Just my one-liner machine-gun-like posting style isn't palatable? I mean, call an apple an apple friend.
So you're voting Prome, yet you claim there's nothing worth saying.
But since you ask for questions... how serious is your vote on Prome on a scale from 1-10 (1 being trolly, 10 being sooper srs)?
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On January 21 2014 13:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm voting for Prome because he immediately asked you a question about me that applied to Wave equally, and then made up some nonsense reasoning as to why it applied to me but not Wave. That's not odd to you?
Not particularly. What's more odd to me is how unwilling you've been to pursue this scumread on Prome despite how active he's been in the thread the past few hours.
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On January 21 2014 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
Meta. External factors that have split my attention. I'm here, now, doing it, so what's the problem?
Awesome. The problem is that I just don't understand your case. You're voting him for being "illogical" in your view. How is him being illogical scummy as opposed to simply illogical.
Anyway, all you need to know about my stance on Prome is that I thought his entrance and attitude was very townie.
Honestly VE, there's not much you can say to defend yourself from my suspicions. The only way you can defend yourself from posting no content is to... well... post content. I'll judge whether my vote is in the right place based on how you contribute over the next ~40 hours.
On January 21 2014 13:06 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 13:03 Hapahauli wrote:On January 21 2014 13:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm voting for Prome because he immediately asked you a question about me that applied to Wave equally, and then made up some nonsense reasoning as to why it applied to me but not Wave. That's not odd to you? Not particularly. What's more odd to me is how unwilling you've been to pursue this scumread on Prome despite how active he's been in the thread the past few hours. Like, you're entirely skirting around me trying to discuss this with you, while accusing me of not discussing it. Is anyone else seeing this?
What's there for me to say? Prome gave reasons for the difference, and I find them logical/believable. You do not. It's on you to prove that his reasons are inadequate.
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The problem I have with your case on Prom right now is that it seems like a troll vote that you're trying to justify retroactively.
You first vote him based on this...
On January 21 2014 11:46 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:41 Promethelax wrote:
I have but you guys had to go and produce actual content while I was bitching about having no content. Stellar start to the game, eh?
In all honesty everyone is suspicious given how little content came about in the time when I couldn't post (couldn't = had to eat sushi with the girlfriend) the fact that the vettiest vets in vetland couldn't figure out how to start a game of mafia gives me the willys. Okay okay okay. So let me get this straight. EVERYONE is suspicious..because we started the game...without you? ##Unvote
##Vote PromethelaxOMGUSM (OMGUS MORE)
...which hardly seems serious.
On January 21 2014 11:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
COUNTERQUESTION PROMETHELAX! WHY HAPAHAULI AND NOT VE, WHO POSTED THE FUCKING POST IN QUESTION?!?!?!?!?
Then a counterquestion, to which Prome replied...
On January 21 2014 11:52 Promethelax wrote:
WoS had a question that feels curious, in my experience curious people are more often town than scum. VE felt fluffy. WoS felt curious.
Reasonable? No.
True? Yes.
Often accurate? Yes.
...to which you haven't addressed, and here we are talking about how your read is a 10/10.
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On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently.
I don't follow. My pressure on you is scummy, but you're reading me as town?
On January 21 2014 13:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's just one of those things that may or may not end up adding up to something. Prome's thing is worse to me because he literally made up reasoning to respond to me. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Fluffy? What does that even mean?
I'll leave it to Prome to back up his arguments. I'm suspicious of you for other reasons that I've stated.
Regardless, what about Prome's arguments are malicious, as opposed to just being a stupid argument?
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On January 21 2014 15:59 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
So Foolish, do you think I'm making mountains of molehills? I've garnered two votes already, and since you didn't vote for me I'm left thinking that you must just disagree with my points? You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing.
Fair enough.
##Unvote
VE's responses seem very emotional and townie. Almost identical to how he responded to my case against him in the Duke Nukem Hydra Mini. Really no point in any more pressure.
Foolish, can you elaborate on your Wave thing? All I see is a pretty standard opening post that you quoted in your vote.
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On January 21 2014 17:49 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 17:12 Hapahauli wrote:On January 21 2014 15:59 Foolishness wrote:On January 21 2014 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
So Foolish, do you think I'm making mountains of molehills? I've garnered two votes already, and since you didn't vote for me I'm left thinking that you must just disagree with my points? You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing. Fair enough. ##UnvoteVE's responses seem very emotional and townie. Almost identical to how he responded to my case against him in the Duke Nukem Hydra Mini. Really no point in any more pressure. Foolish, can you elaborate on your Wave thing? All I see is a pretty standard opening post that you quoted in your vote. Why did you feel the need to justify your new read on VE (based on meta) with a quote from foolish saying you are both town?
Foolish's post echoed my sentiments, and tipped me over to unvoting. It's not a justification - it's more my own reference point. Only to then ask him to only elaborate on wave and not the reasons he thinks you are both town? Free town cred is nice but not if the person it's coming from is questionable.
As far as him elaborating on the other reads goes, I thought his rationale was straightforward and short. His read on wave is 10000x more interesting to me than the town reads.
As for yourself Holy, have you gleaned anything from the thread yet? Your entrance is plenty critical of myself and Foolish's play, but doesn't say anything about our alignments.
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EBWOP:
Fucked up the quoting a bit there:
On January 21 2014 17:49 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 17:12 Hapahauli wrote:On January 21 2014 15:59 Foolishness wrote:On January 21 2014 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
So Foolish, do you think I'm making mountains of molehills? I've garnered two votes already, and since you didn't vote for me I'm left thinking that you must just disagree with my points? You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing. Fair enough. ##UnvoteVE's responses seem very emotional and townie. Almost identical to how he responded to my case against him in the Duke Nukem Hydra Mini. Really no point in any more pressure. Foolish, can you elaborate on your Wave thing? All I see is a pretty standard opening post that you quoted in your vote. Why did you feel the need to justify your new read on VE (based on meta) with a quote from foolish saying you are both town?
Foolish's post echoed my sentiments, and tipped me over to unvoting. It's not a justification - it's more my own reference point.
Only to then ask him to only elaborate on wave and not the reasons he thinks you are both town? Free town cred is nice but not if the person it's coming from is questionable.
As far as him elaborating on the other reads goes, I thought his rationale was straightforward and short. His read on wave is 10000x more interesting to me than the town reads.
As for yourself Holy, have you gleaned anything from the thread yet? Your entrance is plenty critical of myself and Foolish's play, but doesn't say anything about our alignments.
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On January 22 2014 04:44 sandroba wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with prom/wos interaction in particular, that first post and fishing for hapa's comment on it is what fells weird and scripted to me. I'd like to hear from hapa if he thinks it felt fake too.
I think his first post was scripted, but it's not really alignment indicative. I'm leaning town on Prome from his general attitude on early Day 1, since he was the first person to make a serious accusation and move the discussion forward. Also, his posting has a "bravado" about it that I don't think would come from scum.
So I think his current line of posting is townie, though that could change should his interest level wane for the next few days.
@ Holy
On January 21 2014 22:05 Holyflare wrote:
...
You used a post from a player that has had 0 contribution to the game as a platform for you to further your paradigm of VE. Not only is that strange but you do not question HOW he could have those reads (something you absolutely should because how else do you learn about another player's mindset?) The only thing you question is his read on wave. You should absolutely not be happy when someone calls you or someone else town for no reasoning and should be questioning it as you have been questioning mostly everything for the entirety of the game.
I think you assume that I think and plan my early-game posts more than I do. As a reference, I basically spazz post anything and everything on early day 1 to start discussion, because I feel that starting things up is 1000x more important than avoiding suspicion on me from the inevitable person that's never played with me before and misunderstands my motives (you).
Now I quoted Foolishness, not out of some thoughtful consideration, but because his post echoed a sentiment that I was feeling at the time. It is not some magical platform - it was coincidence, and therefore I quoted it.
As for why I didn't pursue Foolishness's town reads on myself and VE - it was because his logic was self-evident:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2014 15:59 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
So Foolish, do you think I'm making mountains of molehills? I've garnered two votes already, and since you didn't vote for me I'm left thinking that you must just disagree with my points? You and Hapa are two townies that are arguing with each other over nothing.
It's short rationale, but it's pretty clear and straightforward. If you play enough games, these early-game town-on-town arguments happen all the time, and make for a pretty good justification to call two people town. Perhaps I should have been more critical, but its easy to gloss over things when you agree with them.
As for not being more critical of the read on myself... well I'm fucking obviously town. That much should be clear from my early-game interest level, and the multitude of players calling me town so early (citing my lack of interest level when I'm mafia in general).
I don't understand the mindset behind this. You suggest we find his alignment by way of pressure but then give into the sentiment of other players of which you do not know the alignment of and say that we should not pressure him because he won't respond instead of taking the initiative of your confirmed alignment to yourself and pressuring sandroba yourself. This isn't something a townie mindset does at all. I'm interested to hear your reasoning before I put my vote down on you though because there's no reason being hasty.
The mindset is that I'm playing devil's advocate with two players. I really don't care about my own consistency - I just care about making them respond.
Why do you assume that it is retroactive justification instead of new evidence coming to light after a troll vote? What he was saying made sense and prome's opening post seemed like it was pre-written before he even read any of the game. I'll get into this later when I have the time and get back but for now I'll leave you to talk about what i've said above.
You know I'm not voting VE anymore right? You know I have a town-read on VE now, right?
Once again, in my early-game play, I'm going to latch onto anything I can and make a case out of it. It's not important for me to be right this early, it's important for people to post. I think you're taking the logic of an early-game case far too seriously.
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Realistically though, what is your opinion of Gonzaw's style? I haven't played with him before and I'm not in right now so can't check up on it.
Why is he spending so much time on foolishness?
This is such a strange question.
1) Why are you talking about him spending so much time on foolishness, when you haven't addressed any of his arguments? Especially... you know... the largest post in the thread currently?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=18#359
2) What is relevant about gonzaw's style so far? He's posted the most content in the thread and has done the most scumhunting of anyone. I don't know how you could raise any questions about his style given what he's posted.
3) Your attitude on Foolishness makes no goddamn sense.
In this post, you're deflecting attention from him and puzzled on how gonzaw could spend time on him.
Why is he spending so much time on foolishness?
...yet in your posts addressed to me, you repeatedly call foolishness sketchy, scummy, and are generally suspicious of him and his sparse posting.
What gives?
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On January 22 2014 06:07 gonzaw wrote:
Well Hapa, it's not strange if he's scum isn't it?
Yes, naturally.
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I still don't entirely follow. One of your main points against me earlier was that one of Foolish's opening posts was so bad, that the fact that I didn't question it made me suspicious.
Yet I see you questioning gonzaw for making inquiries into said player.
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Ah nevermind. I follow, but I'm not entirely satisfied with your response.
What is your feeling on gonzaw's meta case on Foolishness?
And still, why do you feel that Foolishness is not worth talking about? Even if he has sparely posted, there's not all that much else to talk about in-thread currently, and there's sufficient rationale to be making judgements off Foolishness' posts so far.
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On January 22 2014 07:37 marvellosity wrote:
ok he can stay for now
##unvote
Would this suggest that you agree with Fool's reads, or do you just think his post is a town-tell?
Do you think he's capable of faking those kinds of posts as scum?
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Just my thoughts on a couple of recent events:
1) Gonzaw's Cases:
I'll talk about Foolishness below, mostly because of the recent wall-o-text.
As for VE, I'm liking VE for town right now. This is the post that really made me change my mind on him:
On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently.
This is a mentality spot on for a townie who thinks he's being unfairly tunneled. Very genuine, and something I'd expect from a town VE.
As for Holyflare, I'm leaning scum on him presently. The points highlighting the emotional "oddities" of his case are really good. The strangest thing about his filter for me is how quickly he dropped his tunnel on me. He makes his initial case on me...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318
...then all it takes is one reply from me...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#419
...and then his suspicions are gone!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=22#427
The lack of any pursuit, or really any confirmation bias whatsoever is strange. It's very uncharacteristic of a townie to give up on a case so easily, and that's seemingly what Holy did.
Also, one interesting thing about Holy/Foolishness association - while Gonzaw claims that they both could be scum, I think Holy's post (if he's scum) suggests the opposite. Holy doesn't seem very interested in Foolishness' allignment at all. which would suggest that Fool is town. Anyway this is associative crap and nothing I'd lynch anyone on, but worth musing about nonetheless.
2) Foolishness's Post
Yeah, so I don't think it's a town-tell (as many people have mentioned before). His post in Parallel Worlds comes to mind, that he can fake these larger posts as scum:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387370¤tpage=31#607
I will say though that I agree with a lot of it. Mostly that Prome and WoS's contributions after their early-game posting have fallen off a cliff. There's nothing in their filter besides early-game fluff yet, and looking back on things, their early-game contributions weren't all that impressive.
I'm not 100% convinced that either are scum yet, but at this present time, they'd make good lynches for their lack of meaningful contributions to the thread.
As for who I'd prefer between Holy/Prome/WoS? Not sure yet, and we have 24 hours to decide atleast.
As for other players, I'm currently null on Foolishness, Marv, and Sandro. Town-reads on everyone else.
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I didn't play in the game, so I don't know the contents of the post too well. All I'm really suggesting is that post-length isn't a factor in reading him, and that looking at the content is important.
Content's good though. The only objections I have are the reads on gonzaw (who seems absurdly townie) and sandro (who's opening hasn't really been "strong" as suggested by Fool).
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On January 22 2014 08:42 marvellosity wrote:
I did play in that game so I remember ^^. And yes it's the content. Enough for me to not want to lynch him atm.
gonzaw: Holy or Wave. Dunno about Prome, I don't have the issues other ppl seem to. Apparently I'm seeing ghosts with kita, I'll come back to that (or not) later. The Holy emotional stuff is pretty good as mentioned
I don't really understand your suspicions on Kita.
None of these by themselves really suggests that much, but there's so many of them. All leading, or weirdly phrased, or kinda obvious questions. Odd.
This is certainly "odd", but I don't see how its a scumtell. Hell townies use leading questions all the time. I love 'em myself ^^
What I actually find suspicious of kita in light of recent posts is how he's attacking gonzaw. gonzaw has been looking pretty town to me lately, he's eager, lots of big posts, he's commenting on a lot of players, he's suspicious of a lot of players with decent grounds, and yet kita is nitpicking at him for his vote on Foolish compared to kita's. That's unnatural and it's not how I'm viewing the game and it doesn't feel right at all.
Is Kita attacking gonzaw? I see him addressing gonzaw's cases (and criticizing them), but nothing I could construct as kita being suspicious of gonzaw.
Also Kita apparently still hasn't read the Holyflare post, which is backed up by the posting order.
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For a person that questions everything hapa, why have you not questioned where my read has gone and instead used it as evidence to bolster a completely fallacious case made by gonzaw?
I just did. Where did it go?
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On January 22 2014 09:12 marvellosity wrote:
hapa? kita was clearly suspicious of gonzaw earlier on (aka "contributions without being a contribution") and to then keep nitpicking at gonzaw's case when kita's vote is on the same person is... strange to say the least
Oh ok. Must have missed something then. 'suppose I'll wait for Kita to respond.
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EPT
