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TL Mafia LXIV: A Game of Intrigue - Page 24

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DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
January 11 2014 09:13 GMT
#461
On January 11 2014 18:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So does BH wanting to policy lynch kush make him mafia? How so?
In the last game BH wanted to policy lynch someone who would not contribute. He was confirmed town in that game and did nothing but wanted to policy lynch a lurker, all game.

I didn't say or even imply that, it's clear you're not reading. I'd like him to explain the mass PM and why he sent it to me first then didn't respond to my reply, I want to know his intentions there. Just like I wanted to know his intentions for the Kush lynch, which he admitted were sincere, but then is going to push me as mayor even though I most definitely won't lynch the person he wants lynched which means he must not have cared much about it in the first place. That's not really what I'd call tunneling and it doesn't seem like he's taking his policy lynch seriously so it's curious he hasn't abandoned the idea already. It's even more curious that anyone else would think it's a good idea. It's curious. I want him to respond. I want answers from him. I demand them. This is part of the process of scumhunting. Not pulling hyperbolic accusations out of your ass prematurely, it's a process.
RIP Aaliyah
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43269 Posts
January 11 2014 09:14 GMT
#462
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43269 Posts
January 11 2014 09:15 GMT
#463
You said "if BH keeps on awnting to policy lynch kush the mayor should lynch him". rofl.
That is calling him mafia.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43269 Posts
January 11 2014 09:16 GMT
#464
On January 11 2014 09:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why should we policy lynch a player day 1 just because you alone have a hard time dealing with them being in the game? If this was your intention, did you mention it before the beginning? I would say that this is an attempt to make the thread discussion worthless but you're not dumb enough to think that the town is going to be on board with that lynch, or that in the 48 hours that pass from now the discussion will still be seriously centered around a lynch on kush. So you might as well say now exactly what you're getting at - if what you're getting at is that no matter what happens at the end of this day, you would still lynch kush regardless, then whoever is elected should lynch you immediately.

You literally said so.
table for two on a tv tray
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
January 11 2014 09:16 GMT
#465
##vote: yamato77
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
January 11 2014 09:18 GMT
#466
damn, chill out
RIP Aaliyah
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
January 11 2014 09:19 GMT
#467
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

If Moc does not stop trolling, we will kill him. If he's town and doing this, he knows this.

If he doesn't want to play the game, he should be obliged.
Writer@WriterYamato
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 11 2014 09:19 GMT
#468
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

The bolded is patently false. There's nothing wrong with discussing reads in PMs with others. It becomes a problem if the conclusions you draw never see the thread and you act on them, but the act itself isn't anti-town in the slightest.

Rayn I really hope you're just like drunk or something. What do you expect people to do in PMs if not discuss reads?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
January 11 2014 09:20 GMT
#469
On January 11 2014 17:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On January 11 2014 16:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 16:15 Mocsta wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:42 Mocsta wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:36 Mocsta wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:11 Mocsta wrote:
On January 11 2014 15:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well here's a shocker ladies and gents: I've rolled town.

##Vote: WoS/Gigglytummy

So....you're voting me for mayor?

Correct

I haven't announced my intent to campaign. Is there a reason I have your vote and you apparently trust me over DrH and all of the other people who are actually trying for mayor?

Yes

because you rolled town.

being confirmed town, why wouldnt i vote for you?

Even were I confirmed town, how do you know I will use the mayoral powers effectively?

How do you know I would care?

I would think that you should.
I'm not entirely certain that it will be enough in this game for the mayoral role to go to someone people believe/assume is town alone---it may be important that the role rightfully goes to someone who will effectively get scum lynched; that is, someone with strong reads and convictions but who will also be able to defer to the town and/or take advice when necessary.

I am actually interested in other people's thoughts on this matter: would it simply be enough to give the mayor role to someone who was theoretically confirmed town but may or may not use the role to great effect?


And another question specifically for you, Mocsta. I am currently in contact with somebody who believes that you may be trolling with that vote. Is that true?

I just got back from Friday Night Magic so I'm going to respond to the thread. I'd rather give the mayor role to someone I was maybe 70% sure was town but know would be effective than someone who I was 100% sure is town but had no confidence in. Scum mayor is a high pressure situation and if they're afraid to use or threaten the hammer at all, or kind of sit back with the role and play it safe I'll probably push them on Day 3 if I'm still alive. It'd be worth losing the mayor role to catch a mafia tbh, but of course I wouldn't vote for anyone I find suspicious. That's why I'm running anyway.

Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 16:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 16:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If someone disappeared from the thread after being accused and ignored the hammer threat completely, I'd try to swing the vote on them and ride the day out to avoid cutting it short but id drop it right away if it seemed like the bandwagon would change

I don't think I understand.
What do you mean by 'dropping it,' and if the bandwagon would change to what? Do you mean off of the threatened person or onto him?


Dropping the hammer, off the threatened player.

So I threaten hammer on Player C who is accused Day 2, Player C either shitposts or dips out of the thread entirely. I will not drop the hammer but encourage everyone to lynch Player C. If there is a concerted effort to misdirect the vote off of C or people start to lose confidence for a dumb reason, that is when I would exercise the power to hammer the player. Partly because town should never ever do that and partly because I'd like to foster a town environment where that kind of wishy washy shit doesn't happen.

I agree more or less with yamato's reads so far. I'd bet like five dollars at this point (let's say that means I'm around 40% sure) that either marvellosity or bloodycobbler are mafia. Marv said he's high in a PM to me and BC sometimes doesn't read when he's not interested and I'm not going to call for anyones head until they defend themselves, but they can not be allowed to continue playing passively. All Marv did when he PM'd me today is basically try to make me doubt myself, then not push it/argue when I didn't agree, and ask me sort of easy questions? There wasn't really any point to the communication, I couldn't figure out what he was getting at as town but maybe he was just bored. Either way, it's not good.

So, BH PM'd me his post about voting for me like an hour or two before he posted it, that's really strange? I think he was gauging for my reaction to it but all I did was comment on the bit about the miller, I didn't thank him or tell him anything I thought about his support in and of itself, because I was immediately put off by a move like that. I told Marv what happened and he says oh well it's just BH being BH, it's not interesting, which I am also put off by because that's an easy excuse not to examine his intentions. I demand that BH explains his intentions. He still seems to think a kush lynch is the best option, so why not continue your campaign yourself? All you have to do is use the hammer in the way I've explained, if you think that's a good idea, you can get what you want and what I argued for? Says to me he doesn't really care about his own lynch at all and that's not a good sign. Please explain.

Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am also curious why people are supporting DrH so hard when he has made zero contributions towards anyone in this game besides himself. If he is to become a mayor he should be interested in lynching mafia, not discussing how he is going to get people talk on D2.


I don't think it's fair to call me a non-contributing player for talking about policy and derailing a shitty policy lynch like an hour or two into the game, when I've been pretty busy all night. I don't think talking about policy is useless at all actually, I think it's the best thing or really the only thing to do on Day 1. I've expressed this sentiment before, outside of being in a game, so I can promise you that viewpoint is not connected to my alignment in any way. Scum have been caught straight up this way before. Like Promethelax in LX who argued about policy lynches on Day 1 then didn't follow through with his own logic then martyred himself over getting caught.

Just the way people respond to the mayoral campaigns and policy ideas can be very telling. I.E if they spend all their time devaluing other peoples ideas and complaining that no one is scumhunting when they aren't doing anything else except throwing negativity on what other people are doing - with no clear goal in mind. The player who agreed with the kush lynch is highly suspect as well, here's some trademark laziness from me - i'm not gonna look back and find out who that is rn - but i'm pretty sure someone said the kush lynch seemed like a good idea or is "okay with me" and if I was a dayvig I'd have a strong urge to shoot that person right away. Wouldn't do it. But I'd have a strong urge.

I apologize for not having rock solid scumreads and that I'm not ready to kill anyone right now. Hopefully my intentions to pressure marv/BC into being active and BH into explaining himself count as contribution. I'd also like to see rayn do something other than post one liners and cast doubt on others. If I am expected as town to be doing some kind of amazing scumhunting right now, then you are too. Unfortunately, I scum hunt at my pace and on my time and not yours and I prefer to keep town on a need to know basis. There are plenty of other players that have piqued my interest or said things that stood out to me. I find making constant lists of everyone I find mildly suspicious absolutely worthless, I can say I already have ideas forming about who and how to pressure certain people when I'm more alert in the morning and that I can promise that it will be made very apparent in the second half of Day 1.


Very good, very good!

Well. Let's hope people think about the words in this post.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43269 Posts
January 11 2014 09:21 GMT
#470
On January 11 2014 18:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

The bolded is patently false. There's nothing wrong with discussing reads in PMs with others. It becomes a problem if the conclusions you draw never see the thread and you act on them, but the act itself isn't anti-town in the slightest.

Rayn I really hope you're just like drunk or something. What do you expect people to do in PMs if not discuss reads?

No, there is no reason to discuss reads - especially scumreads - in PM's when you can do that in thread and make everyone see your thought process. It's anti-town, on D1. Period.
table for two on a tv tray
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 11 2014 09:23 GMT
#471
On January 11 2014 18:19 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

If Moc does not stop trolling, we will kill him. If he's town and doing this, he knows this.

If he doesn't want to play the game, he should be obliged.

Basically this. He'll come out to play regardless of his alignment imo. If he doesn't, I'm all about killing Mocsta.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43269 Posts
January 11 2014 09:23 GMT
#472
On January 11 2014 18:19 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

If Moc does not stop trolling, we will kill him. If he's town and doing this, he knows this.

If he doesn't want to play the game, he should be obliged.

That's true. It doesn't mean his trolling at the start of the game makes him mafia and the discussion about this is pointless.
He either starts playing or gets killed. Case closed.
table for two on a tv tray
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
January 11 2014 09:24 GMT
#473
On January 11 2014 18:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Mocsta is trolling and I think a vig should shoot him, deciding the lynch this early set in stone might not be a good idea. I would encourage all vig bullets to go toward mocsta if he doesn't adequately explain why he is trolling and purposely being unhelpful immediately and stop playing this way. If I'm mayor I won't tolerate intentionally anti-town behavior and I encourage everyone to get those players my vote away from hammer so they can be dealt with quickly, they either explain (to satisfaction) and stop or they die.

Trol0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0

Dr.H demands I explain my trolling.

Question Dr.H:
How am I going to vig myself?

muahahahahaha
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
January 11 2014 09:24 GMT
#474
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

i don't agree but i refuse to argue about it because neither of us will change our minds

1. why would you as town:
a. run for mayor and expect people to get behind a policy lynch of kush, a player who you want to kill because you and you alone have difficulty reading him. HEY give me the big role of the game so that I can use the power to get rid of someone that is hard for me personally to deal with but probably not for others. Then, drop your campaign to support a player who won't lynch that person, yet still state you want that person to be lynched, that is about the most useless and anti-town play I can think of on Day 1. It includes such scumtells as revealing convictions that you don't follow through on, budding up to players who are loud voices in the town, as soon as I said I'd like him lynched for that he dropped his campaign and started supporting me. Why would you vote, as town, for someone who said they'd kill you that early in the game?
2. I didn't say he was scum I said he needs to stop and if a player absolutely refuses to stop trolling and playing an intentionally obstructive and anti-town game, you would assume they are town instead?
3. Marvellosity is not a player who I expect would play passively and pass the game casting doubt on people and not contributing anything, he's an incredibly good player when he's attentive and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because he told me in a PM that he was really high tonight.

I feel like this could become a youngminii/VE type situation where you hate the way I play and I hate the way you play and we're both unfamiliar with each other. I typically go many hours without reading the thread and completely forget what I said. I forgot I was even that aggressive with BH in the first place. Probably due to being out of the house for the last seven or eight hours and drinking and only periodically checking this thread on my phone until now. I don't think something as simple as that stands out as being completely dishonest. Do you think I'm scum?
RIP Aaliyah
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 11 2014 09:25 GMT
#475
On January 11 2014 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 18:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

The bolded is patently false. There's nothing wrong with discussing reads in PMs with others. It becomes a problem if the conclusions you draw never see the thread and you act on them, but the act itself isn't anti-town in the slightest.

Rayn I really hope you're just like drunk or something. What do you expect people to do in PMs if not discuss reads?

No, there is no reason to discuss reads - especially scumreads - in PM's when you can do that in thread and make everyone see your thought process. It's anti-town, on D1. Period.

Well I disagree and clearly you feel strongly about it so whatever. I'm discussing reads with people in PMland rayn, umad?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
January 11 2014 09:25 GMT
#476
On January 11 2014 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 18:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 11 2014 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are discussing your reads in PM's that's anti-town. There is no reason to do that if you are town. So i assume you are not doing anything useful in PM-land.

I want you to explain why:
1) BH's policy makes him suspicious
2) Why Mocsta trolling makes him scum
3) Why marv's "non-caringness" makes him scum

The bolded is patently false. There's nothing wrong with discussing reads in PMs with others. It becomes a problem if the conclusions you draw never see the thread and you act on them, but the act itself isn't anti-town in the slightest.

Rayn I really hope you're just like drunk or something. What do you expect people to do in PMs if not discuss reads?

No, there is no reason to discuss reads - especially scumreads - in PM's when you can do that in thread and make everyone see your thought process. It's anti-town, on D1. Period.

I think making lists of barely formed scumreads is the stupidest and least pro-town thing you can ever do and I've almost gotten into some over the line nasty fights with VE in particular about this.
RIP Aaliyah
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43269 Posts
January 11 2014 09:26 GMT
#477
I don't hate the way you play. I think you are just using many words to say very little.
table for two on a tv tray
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
January 11 2014 09:26 GMT
#478
Dr Helvetica is spreading wisdom.

Given sufficient knowledge of forum mafia, this ability becomes incredibly useful.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
January 11 2014 09:26 GMT
#479
This is an anti-town attitude, it's well known that PMs are bad for mafia. They want to avoid talking in PMs to people, they want to avoid situations where they can not avoid responding to questions where they must force to give town players their opinions and demonstrate their logic. It's another microscope. Discussing reads via PM is a vital part of scumhunting in a PM game.
RIP Aaliyah
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
January 11 2014 09:26 GMT
#480
On January 11 2014 18:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't hate the way you play. I think you are just using many words to say very little.

I can say the same for you.
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