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What I mean is.... That's what I'd expect him to say about his scummate. "I don't want to lynch him now, but I'm not sure about him." Gives him the room to bus, but also to back off is necessary.
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On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote:And to answer you a bit Xata Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:42 Xatalos wrote:I haven't been very successful in reading rayn in the past. He feels pretty townie though (even that paranoia for Plutarch seems quite townie IMO). I see no point in even discussing lynching him at this point. LSB seemed like a good lynch earlier, but there's one issue that bothers me. Essentially it's that I agree on his points about purple, and after closely reading through sidesprang's filter, I think sidesprang is actually more scummy than LSB. Firstly, there's this "bait and switch" that LSB mentioned: On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
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About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
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@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is basically the most non-committal bandwagon move in the whole game. He just half-heartedly joins the bandwagon while keeping his options open (either to vote for Cora or to forget about the whole thing). I also dislike him calling Corazon "anti-town" rather than "scummy". It shows a mindset where he doesn't really believe Corazon to be scum, but rather believes him to be an anti-town townie (or that's how it seems like). Still, it's another point against Corazon without even calling him scum for it. I allready answered this, I said I did not find Cora to be behaving scummy at that time but I did not belive him to be scum. And i'm a bit suprised you have a problem with this, It's basically the same thing you are doing with LSB atm, only my scum % on cora was way less than your 60% on LSB.
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this".
His posts are just so... defensive, weak and non-committal. Like this very weak read on JarJar (that's even partly OMGUS). Overall he's been very passive and flying under the radar for the whole game. And he seems to be content with that situation, not even trying to play pro-actively. This was the last guy I mentioned there and also therefor my weakest scumread at the time. He was not scum to me at the time, I just thought his behaviour and his comment about zeroing in on details was worth mentioning at the time.On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
This post.... At first I only focused my attention on the VA theory, but actually the worrying part is the bolded one. It pretty much says "I won't be voting until I can bandwagon on someone easily". Not exactly in those words, but that's basically what it means (especially combined with the fact that he has been lurking all D2). I wouldn't be surprised if he just came back later today to park his vote on some popular lynch target. I must say I really like this comment, When D1 I voted semi early on Vayne, which was definetly not a bustarget at that moment, and you came in late and "parked" your vote on the popular lynch target.
- - - - So basically I agree with LSB's reads, which makes me not really want to lynch him at the moment. I think I'd prefer Artanis, sidesprang or purple. Specifically Artanis and sidesprang look bad. How many players would be willing to lynch Artanis? Or sidesprang or purple?
Your vote on VA is pretty much the definition of "parking" a vote. It had no meaning, you didn't push him, it just sat there without any use. And you still haven't done anything to push a vote today either. Are you planning to?
Fair enough (about the JarJar read).
Well, it's true that my stance on LSB is a bit similar to your stance on Corazon. However, it's much more worrying in your case, since you haven't really done anything else besides that. Or you have posted some reads, but you haven't impacted the game in any way. You've just defended yourself a bit and posted a couple of reads.
If VA didn't exist, who would you want to lynch?
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On December 14 2013 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 22:01 Xatalos wrote:
What I mean is.... That's what I'd expect him to say about his scummate. "I don't want to lynch him now, but I'm not sure about him." Gives him the room to bus, but also to back off is necessary. Isn't this exactly what you said about LSB?
Well, not really, since I just said that he wasn't my #1 lynch. That's not the point though. It's probably partly because of some confirmation bias towards Artanis that this LSB-read jumped out at me, but I think it's still worth looking at later on if LSB flips scum.
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On December 14 2013 22:26 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 22:15 Xatalos wrote:On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote:And to answer you a bit Xata On December 14 2013 20:42 Xatalos wrote:I haven't been very successful in reading rayn in the past. He feels pretty townie though (even that paranoia for Plutarch seems quite townie IMO). I see no point in even discussing lynching him at this point. LSB seemed like a good lynch earlier, but there's one issue that bothers me. Essentially it's that I agree on his points about purple, and after closely reading through sidesprang's filter, I think sidesprang is actually more scummy than LSB. Firstly, there's this "bait and switch" that LSB mentioned: On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote:
Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
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About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
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@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is basically the most non-committal bandwagon move in the whole game. He just half-heartedly joins the bandwagon while keeping his options open (either to vote for Cora or to forget about the whole thing). I also dislike him calling Corazon "anti-town" rather than "scummy". It shows a mindset where he doesn't really believe Corazon to be scum, but rather believes him to be an anti-town townie (or that's how it seems like). Still, it's another point against Corazon without even calling him scum for it. I allready answered this, I said I did not find Cora to be behaving scummy at that time but I did not belive him to be scum. And i'm a bit suprised you have a problem with this, It's basically the same thing you are doing with LSB atm, only my scum % on cora was way less than your 60% on LSB.
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this".
His posts are just so... defensive, weak and non-committal. Like this very weak read on JarJar (that's even partly OMGUS). Overall he's been very passive and flying under the radar for the whole game. And he seems to be content with that situation, not even trying to play pro-actively. This was the last guy I mentioned there and also therefor my weakest scumread at the time. He was not scum to me at the time, I just thought his behaviour and his comment about zeroing in on details was worth mentioning at the time.On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote:
Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia
VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
This post.... At first I only focused my attention on the VA theory, but actually the worrying part is the bolded one. It pretty much says "I won't be voting until I can bandwagon on someone easily". Not exactly in those words, but that's basically what it means (especially combined with the fact that he has been lurking all D2). I wouldn't be surprised if he just came back later today to park his vote on some popular lynch target. I must say I really like this comment, When D1 I voted semi early on Vayne, which was definetly not a bustarget at that moment, and you came in late and "parked" your vote on the popular lynch target.
- - - - So basically I agree with LSB's reads, which makes me not really want to lynch him at the moment. I think I'd prefer Artanis, sidesprang or purple. Specifically Artanis and sidesprang look bad. How many players would be willing to lynch Artanis? Or sidesprang or purple? Your vote on VA is pretty much the definition of "parking" a vote. It had no meaning, you didn't push him, it just sat there without any use. And you still haven't done anything to push a vote today either. Are you planning to? Fair enough (about the JarJar read). Well, it's true that my stance on LSB is a bit similar to your stance on Corazon. However, it's much more worrying in your case, since you haven't really done anything else besides that. Or you have posted some reads, but you haven't impacted the game in any way. You've just defended yourself a bit and posted a couple of reads. If VA didn't exist, who would you want to lynch? How did my vote on VA not have a meaning D1, he almost got lynched! Then suddenly there was a huge shift onto spag with like less than 1h left of the day. I posted my thoughts about how the votes went down, and I think a VA lynch can give us some good leads. If VA was not in the game, and all connections to him dont exsist. I would most likely go for purp, tho some of my reasonings for him is also him defending vayne, so cant say that for certain. I would have read more into rayne, I really did not like how he handled the plut thing, but when I read his filter I did not really find anything more. And if nothing of those panned out I would prolly vote for LSB. But now we're getting way further than I can predict 
This is all you posted regarding VA during D1....
On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:
VayneAuthority: Seems to have very little content, and frankly not even a desire to hunt scum at all. I got the impression that he was an experienced mafia player and would thus expect more of him. He is basically tunnelvisioning on the easiest target and dont really provide much outside of that. He said he was memory banking stuff and would come back later day 1. I hope he will provide something else than just slam before the day is over.
##Vote VayneAuthority
Do you really think your post or vote had any meaning during D1? It could have as well been some random unidentified ability vote or something....
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On December 14 2013 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying i did something wrong with Plutarch but noone is willing to explain what's wrong in it?
I think I already explained this earlier.
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On December 14 2013 22:41 sidesprang wrote:My reasons for voting on Vayne D1: He does nothing, tunnelvisions on slam, the easiest safest target to go on in the start. Just a policy lynch, if it goes through it dont tell us anything about Vayne regardless of how it flips. N1: Tells us day 2 is when the real game will start. D2: Does nothing despite the real game having started, goes on the easiest safest target to go on again LSB. Dont provide any insight. Is more disruptive than helpfull to the town. That is why I wanna lynch Vayne. He is like an Day 1 Alakaslam just without speaking in code. The fact that If we lynch him we can learn from his flip, is just a bonus. If you read my filter and put the pieces togheter you could have seen this. But I guess I also could have put this case togheter when making the vote. Did not really take me that long
I won't disagree on the issue of VA being unhelpful, but I think he's more likely town at the moment. And I'd rather lynch scum.
By the way, how is LSB's flip uninformative? I'm actually starting to think that it could be one of the most informative lynches out there. For example, his scum flip would put Artanis in a worse light, and overall this LSB wagon would be neat to analyze if he flips scum (also if he flips town, but to a lesser extent). There's been some decent resistance/counter-pushing to it.
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On December 14 2013 23:01 kushm4sta wrote:
where do i find who xatalos is currently voting for??
Artanis, why?
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But actually, yeah, LSB would be decent. I'm content with that for today. It should also shed some more light on Artanis.
##Unvote
##Vote LSB
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On December 14 2013 23:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Xatalos can you give me a recap of your current case on Artanis?
Simply put:
1) Illogical stance on me/Corazon at the start (I was scummy since I was - intentionally! - grabbing attention, yet Corazon was town for - unintentionally! - grabbing attention)
2) Scummy bandwagon vote on Spag
3) Weak case on me that painted me as scum for null/towny traits
4) Overall lazy and illogical play
5) Potentially a connection with LSB (?)
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AFK for a bit, but I'll be back ASAP.
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What's the situation here? I have no idea who has voted who and who's even leading in votes atm.
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Is purple a possible lynch right now? He could be a decent option as well.
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Definitely LSB over VA though.
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I seriously doubt XigXag/purple is lynchable atm. And LSB is more scummy than either of those (+ he has a potential connection with Artanis).
Why is XigXag scummy anyways?
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I mean, XigXag made several good posts (although he's been pretty lurking).
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On December 15 2013 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Okay let's do shennanies.
##Unvote
##Vote: Purpletrator
Hmmm...
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Lol it's happening. Okay then.
##Unvote
##Vote purpletrator
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It's between purple and VA now, Alakaslam.
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LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town.
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On December 15 2013 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote:
LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town. And me for bringing up Purple when Rayn wanted to lynch Xigxag. Only false if Xigxag is also scum.
Hmmmmmm......
It's pretty hard to believe you'd do that as scum.
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EPT
