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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
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thrawn2112
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On November 20 2013 12:00 Mocsta wrote: post 1 Yo fuck the POLICE true dat | ||
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thrawn2112
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On November 20 2013 12:12 Aquanim wrote: Also, it gave you something to ask me about, so as a conversation starter I consider it a success. What are your conclusions about moc's alignment based on his answer? | ||
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thrawn2112
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mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other | ||
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thrawn2112
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no | ||
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that scib is mafia? that he's town and you don't like his play? what? | ||
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On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game. Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter. | ||
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^^^ this is not meant to absolve you from answering the question | ||
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On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote: @Thrawn When I made that post, I was thinking along the lines of "I think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum. Okay. You thought his actions were scummy. Here is what you said: On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game. Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter. You gave two interpretations of scib's play. The first being that he doesn't understand early game trolling, the second being that he's trying to rock the boat. I'm not sure how those two are different but that is not what I have issue with. The problem I see is that neither of those interpretations allow for you to, in your own words, "think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." How is not being aware of early game trolling scummy? How is wanting to get discussion going early scummy? Both of those options seem to imply that you think he's town, which is the opposite of what you claimed your read on him at the time to actually be. Scib, can you explain your intentions behind this post? On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote: I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said. agree or disagree. Were you trying to raise a legitimate concern about Corazon's post? | ||
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thrawn2112
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On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote: @thrawn I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started. That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why.. On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote: THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN These posts came before your comment on Mocsta. Aren't they both as "safe" and "trolly" as what Corazon did? Why did you decide that only Corazon deserved to be called out for what bereft and I also did? One of your concerns with C's post is that it "echoes what Mocsta said." Typically a point like this can be valid when someone restates another's argument, and the reason why it would be scummy is because it means the person who "echoes" has to "echo" because they cannot produce content of their own. Are you really trying to suggest that Corazon didn't know what to say, so he decided to copy Mocsta, and is therefore scummy? That argument completely falls apart when you're talking about something so silly and non-alignment indicative as saying "fuck the police." | ||
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thrawn2112
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So why did you think Corazon was scummy for ctrl+c/+v'ing what Mocsta said? | ||
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On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote: Post 14 @Thrawn: What do you think of Rean response. I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that. I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is. Hence, what is the point of the comment? I came very close to writing out something very similar to what Rean said. I was also going to remind you of what you said about Cor's emotions. Be careful with that and I don't think I need to actually say what I'm thinking for you to know what I'm driving at. That is why I unvoted. So nah, it didn't bother me too much. I get what you're saying but I'm not holding it against him because it's something I would tell you if we were masoned. | ||
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He starts the game by asking the "are you scum" question. When questioned about this he says he has a slight town read on Mocsta. In his next post after giving Mocsta the "teeny tiny town read" he expands upon the reasoning for said town read with way more words than are needed. Later in that post he comments on things that aren't related to scumhunting. He ends that same post with a question to Corazon but the question is not framed in a way that it looks like he is suspicious of Corazon. He then asks rean a similar sounding question, and posts another question for Corazon. None of it looks like scumhunting because I don't sense any hint of accusation behind any of the questions. After those series of questions comes a larger post where he gives me a townread, and says he doesn't like Corazon's case but he doesn't call Corazon scum for it. Then there's another non-accusatory question to rean, and he asks a nonsensical and completely useless question about vig shots. He asks who would mocsta shoot, but says that this doesn't mean he's asking for a scumread. What use is a vig shot other than to shoot a scumread? It doesn't make any sense at all and I don't see how he was trying to help town by asking it. So what is his filter comprised of? Town reads, overly lengthy explanations for things that aren't important, weak questions that don't look like he's actually looking for scum, and a completely useless question about vig-shots. ##vote: aquanim | ||
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On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote: Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: Rean I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. This post is obviously fake. This is the first time Aquanim commits to a scum read, and the way he does it does not look natural. He cites Corazon's case as being "sketchy at best" when earlier he gave Corazon a null read for it, because he could see how town Corazon could make the case. Seeing how a town C can make a case and calling him null does not match up with aquanim thinking the case was "sketchy at best." This means that this reason for thinking rean is scum is completely made up. After that point Aquanim talks about rean's play as a whole but I think his summary applies more to himself than it does to Rean. On top of that his allegations are false... Rean has made posts where he appears to be trying to discern alignments. Go find them, it's easy. It took me about 2 seconds after opening his filter. If it took me 2 seconds to reach the opposite conclusion Aquanim did.... something's not right. On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case: I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them. Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them. For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. In this post he is acknowledging that everything I said about him was correct. He's not scumhunting, etc. His excuse for this is that he's concerned that people might just come in and sheep the Corazon lynch? This is a very weak excuse for not being suspicious of anything and not trying to scumhunt. If he didn't want the thread to only talk about Corazon he could have just as easily found something else to talk about. His case and vote for Rean does not count as him trying to do this because Rean nearly forced him into it. He says he voted Rean to open a second wagon. So what does that mean? He wasn't actually that suspicious of Rean and he truly isn't suspicious of anything? I'm not buying it. Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned. | ||
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thrawn2112
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote: I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote: I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next. On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote: I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. ....... I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote: I always thought Corazon's case on sciberbia was bad. That's not inconsistent with my opinion that Corazon could be town having made that case. There were two possibilities: - Corazon was town and honestly mistaken - Corazon was making a case to generate discussion and wasn't particularly concerned with its quality. On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote: I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon. On November 20 2013 17:25 Aquanim wrote:\ Okay, let me rephrase that. I don't see any town-motivated purpose to Corazon's posting so far. If he thinks Sciberbia is scum, why isn't he voting for him? If he isn't confident Sciberbia is scum, why is he pushing the Sciberbia-scum argument so vehemently? I think Corazon's case is bad but obviously he doesn't. Corazon's vote doesn't have to be consistent with my opinion of his case, it has to be consistent with his opinion - and it's not. It is a very convoluted thought process. It doesn't make sense and his position seems to very depending on what he needs to say in order to sufficiently answer a question as to avoid suspicion. He doesn't like C's case, he can see how a town C would make the case, he doesn't see anything town-motivated about Corazon's play, here are two possibilities of how a town Corazon could have made the case, and he's more confident that Corazon is scum than he is that Rean is scum. To add to all that, one of his main criticisms of Corazon is that Corazon isn't voting for his scumread. Neither is Aquanim by his own admission that he isn't as confident about Rean as he is about Corazon. | ||
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thrawn2112
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true dat | ||
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On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote: However, the fact that the case was bad and didn't persuade me IS NOT scum-indicative for Corazon in as of itself, for the reasons I stated earlier (namely, that Corazon could be mistaken or be deliberately pushing a bad case.) The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. + Show Spoiler + Furthermore, earlier on when he was still developing and explaining his case against sciberbia, not voting at that point was not particularly scummy. However, when he'd concluded his argument and left without placing a vote even then? That was the point at which it became particularly scum-indicative. Which is why I'd made no mention of his failure to vote before that point, since I wanted to see if he would vote if left to himself. You say Cor's case being bad is not scum-indicative.. even though you already used the phrase "sketchy at best" to describe it. Anyways, according to you, at least in this post, you are not holding his case against him. What you are holding against him is the fact that he's not voting for scib? That's the only reason? It must be, since you aren't going to hold his case against him. Why does that even make him scum in the first place? You say your vote on Rean is fine because it's a pressure vote, but then you're admitting that people don't always have to vote for their top scumreads. And this is why he's your top scumread? Because he hasn't typed in vote:xxxxx during the first few hours of the game? Bah! Bah, I say unto thee. | ||
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thrawn2112
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It's over there >>>>> What do you make of it? | ||
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On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote: TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment and to avoid suspicion when questioned about his play Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. | ||
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On November 21 2013 01:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Is it not obvious to you that this isn't sciberia's first game? I said he was good at this game and that I thought he was making a calculated play with "rocking the boat". Seems like I completely misread that post. I saw "rocking the boat" as "starting discussion = townie" instead of "rocking the boat" as "starting pointless discussion = scummy." Now that post makes more sense... I initially thought you were saying he's town or he's town. I was the first person to bring up this point about Corazon calling scib town and most everything else that's been said about him is a rehash of what I said. It's based on my misunderstanding so now I consider all the points brought up against him null. | ||
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On November 21 2013 01:43 JarJarDrinks wrote: Sorry to repost this again but wanted everyone to know what post we're all talking about since there seems to be some dispute:So Cora, who thinks sciberia was making a calculated scum play, decides that correct thing to say about it is to tell him to stop. He then gives the person that he believes is smart scum advice on how to find scum. I think you are misreading like I did. That post where he gives advice to scib comes before Corazon says what he thinks about scib's alignment. That post is the first time he mentions scib. As mocsta said it does look like something corazon could say to a person he has any read on, if his goal behind saying that is as he states, to get good discussion flowing before starting the hardcore and what he thinks would be useless analysis. It wasn't until his next post about scib that he mentions that scib is either "new" or is "rocking the boat," he knows that scib isn't new therefore he concludes that scib is scummy. Initially I interpreted "rocking the boat" as "starting discussion = townie" but that was an incorrect interpretation. Obviously I might be putting townie words into a scum Corazon's mouth, but I do not think this is the case and I think I'm probably in a better position to clear up this confusion than he is. | ||
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On November 21 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote: My mason (thrawn) Do you get the impression onegu is just trying to shit the thread? or am i taking this too personal? I am a bit stymied by his posts and reads but I haven't come to a conclusion so I'd rather not give my thoughts just yet. I will however say that I hope he isn't town because if he is then I foresee things getting ugly. That should be enough to let you know what I'm thinking about your question... "am i taking this too personal?" | ||
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On November 21 2013 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because i have not been reading your posts closely enough it seems like. :p I liked your posts on Aquanim. Very much. So now I am obviously town? Just like that? | ||
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On November 21 2013 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: thrawn one thing i don't understand is your questioning on sciberbia at the start of the game. I see nothing wrong with sciberbia's posts. Wanna explain that? No I do not. First I want you to explain why scib's first post is reasonable in your opinion. You don't get to act suspicious of my questioning without first explaining why you are suspicious of those questions. | ||
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On November 21 2013 03:26 JarJarDrinks wrote: Lunch. I think rayn looks good. He seems to have similiar reads to me. I don't think there's anything scummy about what you and thrawn were pointing out. Looking into Aqua now. Here's the problem with rayn's entrance. He starts off by giving mocsta a huge town read, and giving me only a slightly-town read. You may not be aware of this but Rayn is well qualified to read my play. That, plus the fact that he agrees that Aqua is scummy (when I have spearheaded the push against Aqua) and the fact that he thinks Mocsta is obviously town and Mocsta is already calling my confirmed town, all add up to...... only a slight town read on me? I think this is not a position he would take if he's town and has all the reads he's claimed to have. You might disagree because maybe you don't see Mocsta or myself as obviously town, and you haven't experienced my town play as much as rayn has, but your read on me shouldn't matter because it's rayn's read I'm talking about. When I read his first post, I slowly began to expect him to give me a strong town read. I questioned him on why he is having trouble reading my alignment. It is obvious from this question that I was suspicious of rayn for giving me a slight town read. So what does rayn do? He strokes my ego and decides he does think I'm obviously town after all. Then I become even more suspicious and ask him how his read changed so easily. Then he starts questioning me about an early game question I asked scib, as if to show me that he actually IS suspicious of me. He starts off reading me as slight town which I do not think is possible if he is town and believes the reads in his first post. I ask him why does he not have me as strong town, he obliges by agreeing that I'm obviously town. I ask him why he changed his mind so easily, and he starts asking me questions to show me he actually is suspicious. Each of those two responses are attempts by him to tell me want I want to hear. | ||
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thrawn2112
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i'll take any odds that there's a scum in aqua/rean and if it's only one of them it's 100% aqua. i reread rean and his play is way scummier than i remember thinking it was at the time i became convinced about aqua everyone else is currently difficult to read i will resume tryharding and using punctuation/capitalization when I return but for now this is lazy reads ver 1.0. i am very busy today and might not be able to post again till tomorrow (like at least + 12 hrs from now) toodles | ||
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I haven't read anything since I last posted except that vote count but it, combined with the reread of Rean I did earlier is enough to make me go ##unvote ##vote: rean | ||
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scum rean lonemeow and rayn or scib | ||
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On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote: I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird. On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum. "I agree about Cor being scum" or even "I kinda agree" is how town people talk. "I could agree" is how scum people talk. "Could agree" as in "if I were actually able to have an opinion but I can't because I'm scum." When they phrase things like this you are hearing their inner monologue trying to figure out what their reads would be if they didn't already know alignments. LM is also scum for townreading Aqua at a time when the average townie should have been at least a little suspicious of Aqua. My only problem writing LM off as scum is that he's barely posted. JampiDampi isn't posting either and I don't like how he was so quick to agree that my Aqua case was good and then he immediately stopped looking for mafia. I remember a post about looking for replacements so if this is him then I don't know how important that last point I made is and this might apply to LM if he's the one who's dropping out. Hopefully this won't be a problem after D1. Picking one out of those two to be scum.. I'll go with LM. I just filtered scib real quick and he's ok. My gut says Bereft is town but at some point I'd like to do some 1v1 questioning. Onegu remains an enigma but my gut has more and more been leaning towards town. I was rereading rayn (sorry moc haven't finished up to the stuff you mentioned) and I came across this exchange On November 21 2013 02:21 Mocsta wrote: Are Rean and Aquanim bussing? On November 21 2013 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know and i don't care. They both look individually bad to me. I'll reconsider when i see flips. I am not looking into connections now. Everyone has made good posts and those people have made bad posts in my opinion. I do not think Aquanim's reasons for voting for Rean are strong, i don't even know if he thinks he is scum as this is what he says: Shouldn't he be voting for Cora instead? A question like what mocsta asked is exactly the kind of unimportant and tiresome thing that town rayn both would strongly care about and also be able to provide several filter pages of spam talking about. Town rayn would never pass up the chance to indulge a question such as Mocsta asked. Town rayn cares deeply about every minute aspect of every angle of every possible theory and he can't stand not having an opinion about such things. I need to reread Corazon, I previously thought he was pretty townie but Mocsta seems to disagree. I am loathe to do it because I don't want to reread those opening cor/scib arguments again and I also think that town Corazon has a very scummy way of talking, arguing, and just the general way he organizes and presents his thought process. I will do this later. | ||
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I still think jampidampi is scum for what I said earlier. He entered the game without commentating on the biggest thing going on at the time, the Aqua case. When pressured about this he agreed too quickly (if he liked my case so much why is there nothing in his filter about Aqua before I ask him to comment), threw his vote down (on what I now perceive to be the mislynch scum has been hoping for) and hasn't put any more effort into the game. | ||
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On November 21 2013 22:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am also telling you Rean will not flip scum so good luck with that, i won't be voting for him. Can you do jampidampi? | ||
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Nice to know you don't want to talk about your scum bud | ||
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On November 21 2013 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you don't lynch me today i will spam the thread with bullshit as long as i live | ||
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##vote: raynpelikoneet | ||
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A) you have claimed scum with basically every post you've made recently B) i don't care too much for a lot of other things in your filter C) I am perfectly fine with policy lynching someone who claims he will spam the thread if the lynch doesn't go his way actually on point C don't even think it's policy lynching because making threats like that is basically scum claiming | ||
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On November 21 2013 23:50 jampidampi wrote: thrawn, earlier you said that Aqunim was the misslynch wagon. What made you think that? What moc said about him and I misreading aqua's play rang true with me and I didn't feel too great about the people voting alongside me... namely you and rean | ||
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thrawn2112
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you start by acting all high and mighty saying there's no way you'll consilidate onto the rean lynch and you KNOW rean will flip town.... while proposing lynches that nobody else wants and you KNOW nobody will go along with i asked your opinion on another lynch (jampi) and you deflected by saying you're gonna lynch me D2 if i don't stop calling you scum now you're trying to take complete control of the thread and force people to lynch one of two players (you/moc) that up until now nobody has even said anything about lynching, claiming you will ruin the game for everyone if they don't play along so many scum claims. even if you are town which I absolutely do not think is the case I don't want you in this game if this is how you're gonna be. this is supposed to be bootcamp mafia not raynspam mafia | ||
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On November 22 2013 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are a town leader as you have acted like and think i am the best lynch then fucking convince people of it. If you think Rean is the best lynch convince people of it. You will be held accountable for your actions anyways. thrawn acts like a town leader but when shit gets real he takes the easy way out, and that is bullshit, ecpecially considering the dude claims he can read me. Either he has no clue what he is talking about or he is scum. I want to lynch Jampidampi because i think he is scum and Rean is not. In case you, Mocsta, think i am scum i suggest you join the wagon because if you lynch me you'll see a town flip and then you are in deep shit because you failed to listen to the town leader you are supposed to be good at reading and you did not lynch "his 100% scumbuddy" you were okay with lynching with before. Same can be said about thrawn. The thread is stuck in a loop. Anytime someone talks to rayn or talks about lynching him, he insults them or calls them scum. His favorite tactic so far has been saying what reads people should be making and ends it by "and if they don't agree they're scum" He is getting lynched. There is little reasoning for any of his thoughts or reads, and most of the reasoning is accompanied by insults that distract you and make you think his posts sound more intelligent than they are. He is trying to make his filter worthless to town after he flips red. | ||
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Mocsta made some snide comments (pretend qt posts) about jampidampi being scum with rayn. Rayn says is mocsta is town he should be voting jampi. iirc mocsta has never said jampi is his top scumread Rayn is accusing Mocsta and sometimes me (I can't really tell) of voting our top scumread, rayn, an action which he said is the townie thing to do when he accused (or bussed who knows) jampi of being scummy for not voting rayn. | ||
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On November 22 2013 08:32 Holyflare wrote: Jesus christ, I'm about half way now and half of you are making full blown cases on people based on page 1 posts, this is shambolic and ridiculous. say something useful | ||
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For now, ##unvote because i'm scared that rayn is town because his comment about his play in desert somewhat convinced me that what he's doing could be town rayn play.. for all who don't know, near the end of the D1 lynch rayn fakeclaimed something to try and save a guy from getting lynched rayn had a town read on.... and that wasn't the only time that game he fakeclaimed to try and force his will upon the thread. I'm also scared that if he is town then a rayn lynch doesn't tell us anything about anyone's lynch motivations because he was so easy to vote for. On November 22 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: thrawn if you are town i ask you the following: (1) What's your current read on Jampidampi? (2) Pretend for a second i am not in the game (what i mean is ignore the me <-> others shitstorm), who are your top 2 scumreads and why? I was about to push him as an alternate lynch to Rean until you caused all the drama. At that moment when you literally promised to spam the thread with BS if people don't lynch one of Mocsta or you there was no doubt in my mind you were scum. Jampi's hesitancy towards reading you is probably bad no matter your alignment. Here is what i said about him before all the you drama: On November 21 2013 20:24 thrawn2112 wrote: He entered the game without commentating on the biggest thing going on at the time, the Aqua case. When pressured about this he agreed too quickly (if he liked my case so much why is there nothing in his filter about Aqua before I ask him to comment), threw his vote down (on what I now perceive to be the mislynch scum has been hoping for) and hasn't put any more effort into the game. This post was made before most of jampi's filter happened but that is only because jampi afk'd from the thread for an extremely long period of time. When he came back he kept talking about his aqua scumread (a scumread that I already said I don't think came about naturally) and he has been tunneled onto aqua ever since I asked him if he liked my aqua case. He doesn't drive conversation forwards when he posts, at least not in any way that is very useful or relevant to finding scum. Right now I think i want to lynch jampi but first I need to reassess my reads on rean/jarjar. | ||
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On November 22 2013 09:08 Mocsta wrote: With a completely clear head. This is a great post actually. Thrawn is back in the good books. Why Mocsta why....... I just now decided to explore the possibilty that rayn is town and you go ahead and reconfirm my earlier doubts about him! poop | ||
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On November 22 2013 09:18 Aquanim wrote: What he's actually done feels more to me like he's searching for a wagon which someone will bite on, which would be scum-motivated (he doesn't care who the lynch is so long as it isn't him). So far he's gone through Mocsta, Bereft, Jampidampi, you, JJD and not stuck for very long on any of them. Do you agree/disagree? ok I am reconvinced ##unvote ##vote: raynpelikoneet rayn I still want to continue talking about what we're talking about | ||
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On November 22 2013 09:10 thrawn2112 wrote: I want to know how you went from declaring D1 to be you vs mocsta to what looks like a current town read on him. answer this | ||
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On November 22 2013 09:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: WHAT??? That was the exact reason you gave him a scumread earlier. You basically said that he was scum because he should be voting for you for shitting up the thread. +1 I like JarJar again | ||
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This is the exact same issue I had with your play when you first entered the game... it looked like you quickly changing your read on me in order to tell me what I want to hear. | ||
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On November 22 2013 09:59 Holyflare wrote: failed f5, anyway I will not be lynching rayn today still waiting on a productive post from you | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:01 Bereft wrote: @scib, i will agree that my stance on onegu has changed since yesterday and he's been completely useless. but i don't think he's a better lynch than rayn at the moment. i can't find any aspect of rayn's posting rational as a townie, and i've tried. i don't care if shit flinging is his usual style of playing. the bottom line is that there is no townie SENSE or LOGIC behind any of his shit flinging in this case. it does not make any sense for him to behave like this. But do you think he's playing scummily? It is very easy to lynch someone saying that you can't see their posts as coming from town. And I disagree because I actually can see town rayn doing this even if I'm not convinced it's the case.What do you think about this? On November 22 2013 09:06 thrawn2112 wrote: For now, ##unvote because i'm scared that rayn is town because his comment about his play in desert somewhat convinced me that what he's doing could be town rayn play.. for all who don't know, near the end of the D1 lynch rayn fakeclaimed something to try and save a guy from getting lynched, a guy rayn had a town read on.... and that wasn't the only time that game he fakeclaimed to try and force his will upon the thread. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: corazon his reason for his vote is worse than anyone else's | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: So why are there people defending me but not pushing another lynch? Is this town shit all around? Go read Corazon's vote post let me know what you think. Read his posts before that paying attention to what direction his reads seem to be going and tell me what you think about voting decision based on the rayn/moc situation | ||
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Write a wall of text post and give your read on every single player. I'm looking for in depth explanations that show your thought process at work. If not every player at least give all your scumreads and any town reads you might feel comfortable posting. | ||
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It's hard to make sense of anything you say because it seems to change on a whim based on thread sentiment. I want a post consolidating all your current thoughts about this game because it will be way easier to read you compared to having to sort through your filter. The problem is that today you have been changing your reads so quickly that you haven't even had to justify them because as a result of how fast they change and as a result, your thought process is impossible to follow. If you are town and want to save a townie from being lynched you will do this. | ||
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Do it rayn. | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:27 sciberbia wrote: OK listen. For people not satisfied with a rayn lynch, we need to establish a decent counter wagon NOW or we will never have time to get 7 votes and people will just say "not enough time sorry let's just lynch rayn". My preferences are Onegu > Cora > Rean. @thrawn, Mocsta, rayn, Holyflare, Onegu(?), Cora(?), anyone not wanting a rayn lynch We need a god-damn counter wagon. Compromises have to be made -- not everybody can lynch their top choice. I started a wagon on Onegu which nobody would join. Thrawn and I started a wagon on Cora and thrawn jumped off. You guys need to put some votes down and consolidate. Out of those I am open to ream but tbh I think others might come ahead of that, and I'm not well read on Onegu's filter as of late... I kinda started tuning out whenever he posts. Others meaning people like jampidampi. I'm focusing all of my efforts on reading rayn right now so it's hard to decide on an alternate wagon. | ||
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This game was so much easier when people didn't show their emotions. That's the only thing I liked about how mafiascum players play. In a game of logic, emotions are a crutch for townies to stop thinking and an tool to help scum look townier. | ||
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##unvote | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: because i really am not going to lynch anyone outside of my pool thrawn. yes that seems to be what all the fuss is about | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:43 Mocsta wrote: This is an unusal response. Talk to me more. yes it was i'm sorry | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote: I thought you had bigger balls. I don't want to play with Rayn anymore full stop. We had a good town environment until page 25ish and I was relaly enjoying this game. He has single handedly shit the thread and this game has completely denigrated into somethign I have no interest playing anymore. My vote is staying on Rayn. /post-game If rayn is town this game, you will be added to my personal ban list. Im pretty fucking disgusted right now. Dude he's town, I'm sorry, I hate it too, it hurts my ego and it also makes the game a lot harder if you consider voting someone else... but rayn is town so we should play accordingly. | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:49 Mocsta wrote: I dont need an apology. I would like to know why you thought it wasnt useful? I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and that's why what I said was a dumb thing to post. Now we need to stop circle jerking and figure out who besides rayn we're going to lynch. | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:53 Mocsta wrote: No, you dont get to brush this off. Why did you vote Onegu afterwards. mocsta unless you think I'm scum please stfu | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:56 Mocsta wrote: I am starting to give it weight So answer the god-damn question. I will expand on my previous post. I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and my knee jerk reaction was to call your post useless. That is my brain's way of tricking me into thinking that I didn't actually need to read your post, my brain is a lazy fuck sometimes and I need to be more mindful of its sinister machinations. Then I realized everything in the above paragraph and decided to read your post. I agreed with it and was desperately looking for a candidate so I voted Onegu. Then I went and read his filter and decided I can't find enough scumminess in it that's worth lynching him over. | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:59 Holyflare wrote: what the hell are you doing? You can't go from NOBODY VOTE RAYN HE IS DEFINITELY TOWN to then lynching him again this is ridiculous How about you suggest a candidate and try to convince me to lynch him instead of taking the easy way out by claiming you want to sheep whatever I do, except for that one thing I'm obviously most likely to do? | ||
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On November 22 2013 11:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's all you wonder? oh i forgot you are scum. you gotta go dude | ||
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On November 22 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1.) Rean - town, read my filter. 2.) thrawn2112 - most likely town, willing to listen 3.) JarJarDrinks - scum, kill with fire. case. 4.) cDgCorazon - town, frustrated for me - Mocsta.seems genuine 5.) Bereft - scum. talks bullshit. scumslips. kill with fire 7.) Mocsta- scum - read what i said about him. i thought he would know better, nah, scum for what i said 8.) Aquanim - annoying (spoiler not for children) + Show Spoiler + .... i wrote a lot of bad words here. ugh.. annoying. 9.) Onegu - town, has good gut reads. cool dude! 10.) Holyflare - town for knowing what he's talking about. 11.) sciberbia 12.) jampidampi Is this what you are referring to? Do you sincerely think this will help town after you flip? | ||
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On November 22 2013 11:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: yeah Onegu, thrawn, jampidampi and Mocsta (albeit he is hit this game) knows how i play. I do whatever i want. When I hosted G.O.T. mafia it was the first time I'd seen you play and my impression of your scum play was that you were not afraid to push mafia objectives and you like to bully your way out of a conversation when someone is calling you scum. That matches what you are doing here. All day long I've been having flashbacks of this conversation in WC2 when you and umasi were scum: On November 12 2013 23:50 thrawn2112 wrote: rayn answer me this. do you want me to post why I thought umasi might be scum On November 12 2013 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to post why Umasi is scum youshould probably post why i am scum too, otherwise i don't care. I have not fakeclaimed after Desert in any game. | ||
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On November 22 2013 11:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: yes i do. there are 4 scumreds. cases are on my filter. so? I don't know why aren't indulging me if you are town. I do know why you might not be indulging me if you are scum. Just do it rayn. Prove that you're a townie, prove that you actually have reads. Prove that you can produce content on demand. | ||
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On November 22 2013 11:28 cDgCorazon wrote: You know what, I don't want any part of this. Rayn and Moc are just battling with their egos and this whole thing is silly. I would say that I'd rather have Rayn be lynched so we can move on to more things but I also think it is really stupid that we are voting Rayn out when it's pretty obvious to me now that he is town. ##unvote ##Vote: No-lynch This is stupid and I can't believe that it has come to this. Rayn is a bad lynch and Onegu/Aqua are way better lynches today. Scum claim? | ||
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Corazon isn't letting us.... | ||
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On November 22 2013 11:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: he's just hrowing shit at me for no reason. there is no reason to do so if he is town. when i flip he'll act "angry" and "FUCK YOURAYN WHY DID YOU DO SO". t_T you're a sad person aquanim lynch this | ||
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Mocsta, go read that post I made where I fully explained my position on my comment about your Onegu case. I made some noise about wanting this game to be based on logic, not emotion, and what I meant by that is further explained in the post I just told you to go read. The things that you think are your thoughts come from somewhere and there is a reason for why you have them. Being able to understand if these reasons are valid is key to recognizing when you're taking an incorrect position. I know this has nothing to do with the game but this is important. The method I described above is what kept leading me to thinking rayn was town, so what I'm saying does have some merit. Incorrect thought = Rayn is scum "subconscious" (for lack of a better word) reasons your brain comes up with to keep believing rayn is mafia: "I am smart and I am so sure that he is mafia" "If rayn is scum, I don't have to put any more effort into figuring this lynch out" "Admitting to the thread or myself that I am unsure about the read I was previously so sure about is hard on my ego" None of these things will you ever actually say to yourself in your inner-monologue but they are still there in the background, forcing you to rationalize and come up with excuses for not considering a different solution to a problem. It is very hard to admit to yourself that your justifications for your opinions can be so shallow. When these reasons are laid bare it is obvious how illogical and egocentric they are. All I am trying to say is that your brain does not always fight on the side of logic so you need to make efforts to understand where your thoughts come from. If you are sure that somebody is X alignment, and you see something that briefly makes you think otherwise, but you quickly dismiss the thought thinking "nah, I was probably right the first time" this is likely to be a time when you are using faulty logic (your "thoughts", or the "voice" you hear explaining your opinion to you when you think) to rationalize what your ego wants.. and what your ego wants is to take the easy way out of problems, and to feel like it is important and infallbile. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [rayn posts] + On November 21 2013 14:13 Bereft wrote: if you're town, i don't know what you're trying to accomplish by jumping on me for such a minor point i proceeded to IMMEDIATELY explain and then disappearing from the thread. what are you hoping to accomplish? you do realize we are 22 hours away from the deadline in a game of majority lynch?? On November 22 2013 00:00 Bereft wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Rayn I think its completely irrational for a townie to bust into the thread the way rayn is doing now flinging shit like an angry bull. there is no reason for him to be behaving this way as town. On November 22 2013 00:15 Bereft wrote: basically I agree 100% with what thrawn said. rayns acting in a manner that makes it quite unlikely he's town, but in the off chance that he is, his attitude is horrible and I'd much rather have Rean around than him. On November 22 2013 02:16 Bereft wrote: why do you think its more beneficial to keep a toxic player around who gives the fake intention of martyring (without actually intending to be a martyr) vs an analytical level headed player who's at least giving the impression of being as transparent as possible? On November 22 2013 10:59 Bereft wrote: scib, here's the thing. i am not unwilling to compromise. it's not like i have no doubt in my mind. but rayn is not just my strongest read -- i don't see any value in keeping him around. as i stated when i voted for him, i think he's incredibly antitown with a terribly off-putting attitude. of course that attitude is gone now that he's under fire, but i think the way he busted into this thread on his high horse around page 33 is unacceptable. if you can give me a strong case on why rayn is town and worth keeping around and why onegu/rean/cora are a better lynch, i will consider it. These posts feature Bereft continuously justifying the Rayn lynch by saying "I can see town doing this" and by using policy lynch arguments. + Show Spoiler [talking to rayn] + On November 22 2013 02:23 Bereft wrote: because trying to get a lynch on my scum read vs a no lynch day 1 is anti town. cmon rayn, you're making me literally cringe here. in any case let's not shit up the thread. obviously I'm not going to convince you to vote yourself and you aren't going to convince me to vote myself. This post shows Bereft not being interested in having a discussion with the person Bereft wants to lynch. + Show Spoiler [what if?] + On November 22 2013 10:18 Bereft wrote: yes, i think he's playing scummy. his cases are built on air and yet he's 100% certain myself and quite a few others are scum -- UNLESS of course it suits him to be nice to them. how can he be 100% certain mocsta, jjd, and I are scum? i wouldn't even place my confidence interval on whether i think HE is scum that high, and i feel strongly about this lynch. In this post, I ask Bereft "what if rayn is town" and I provide a meta example that can show how town rayn can be playing this way, which is what Bereft claims to be looking for but can't find. Bereft calls rayn scum and does not address my questions or stop to think about the possibility of a town rayn. + Show Spoiler [img] + On November 22 2013 11:42 Bereft wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nsg2TE5.png) This image is a very good representation of Bereft's justification for voting for rayn. Bereft, can you explain your D1 vote? It looks like you're hiding behind policy lynch rhetoric and that you don't care to discuss the possibilty that rayn is town. | ||
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On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote: sihh you huysbare playing like rayn. looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip. thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed. avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight. giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch. conviction people. I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me. if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there. people like onegu, holy, rwan are the best flips for day2. I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons, cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game. if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life. good lcuk in case you die look at JJD and bereft real quick. just indulge me, please | ||
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I don't know you're talking about. I'm trying to get his opinion on something. If you think that we are both town and I'm doing something anti town then let me know exactly what it is and why it's bad so I can stop. If you think one or both of us is scum then you should tell the thread. If this has nothing to do with any of that, and it's about you and mocsta not getting along then please stop. | ||
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By my placing of the first vote, I hope I have everyone's attention. I want to use this opportunity to tell everyone to go read my massive spoilered collection of bereft D1 quotes. Bereft hardly ever describes why rayn is mafia, most of the justifications for the rayn lynch are policy reasons or "I can't see town doing this" which is an equally bad justification. Please go read everything I wrote and quoted in that spoiler. | ||
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On November 23 2013 15:24 Mocsta wrote: Please let the man build his case on me + bereft before trying to lay down pressure. Im very curious to see the goods on Bereft. Please join me with jampidampi. Tell me why you think Bereft is town. What has Bereft done since the lynch? Nothing besides defending policy lynching and 4 posts after that which do nothing to further the scumhunt... everything Berefft has posted so far has been a response to someone. There is no effort to find scum or explain scum reads. | ||
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Most of it reaffirms the points I brought up. The rest of it is along the lines of "in hindsight I should have done this" which is not any kind of explanation at all. Anyone can tell you what they should have done in hindsight to avoid telling you why they did what they did. | ||
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On November 23 2013 15:48 Aquanim wrote: Another question for you Thrawn, the same as for Corazon: Do you think Rean is scum? If not, convince me. First I want you to explain why you don't care about the Bereft discussion. You asked me once about Bereft's (him/her? I want to use pronouns) defense, I ignored the question, and you found it important enough to ask me again, so why are you doing nothing with my answer and trying to change the conversation? | ||
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##vote: jampidampi The game starts out with me making a case against Aqua. Jampi doesn't address this case, and it was the biggest thing happening in the thread. I force him to talk about it, and his response is that he agrees with my case, and puts his vote down on Aqua where it remained for the rest of the cycle. When rayn flew off the handle, jampi did not put effort into trying to figure out rayn's alignment and he did not put effort into explaining his take on the situation. He never once gave his read on rayn after rayn became an issue. The pattern is that jampi avoids the controversial issues, and he hid behind his aqua tunnel for all of D1. | ||
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On November 22 2013 11:52 Rean wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2013 02:37 Mocsta wrote: God your annoying... I asked the question because I am in a headspace where I can look at you without emotion. I am trying to figure out the motives for your continued trolling since your "confrontation" vote. Considering a majority hasn't been reached & people reading (Onegu/jampi) haven't voted - you are not under a *great* deal of pressure. As town, under thread of a mislynch: I would expect you to pull the finger out and start producing cases. You already said you don't want me dead; yet keep going out of your way to antagonise me. Unless you think I am scum, I don't see how your actions can line up with a town mentality. Small tidbit, whilst looking for Rayn in the TL db to check mislynch history, i saw Rean: Insane Mafia 2 Town Police Tough Guy Killed Night 2 TL Mafia XXXVIII Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 3 Sleeper Cell Mafia Mafia Sleeper Agent Modkilled Day 1 Pick Their Power Mafia Town Psychic Survived I know Sleepcell is from 2011 but check teh filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416&user=Rean&view=all He has like 2 posts, but they are SO aggressive. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186&user=Rean&view=all In Pick Their Poewr he is quite casual and short posts. Rean gameplay doesnt really fit into either of those filters + its from 2011 and things change. BUT, what i do think is that it shows quite clearly his mentality when scum. Hesistant to talk, and high-strung/angry. I think Rean is probably town. Sorry everyone for not participating at all today but my head is fucking killing me atm and trying to read the thread isnt working at all ._. made it to page 41 so far and gonna stop for today because i just cant focus at all, but wanted to comment on mocsta mentioning old games: I cant remember why but I know I was so frustrated from RL issues during the sleeper cell game that I didnt focus on it at all and the few posts I made were total shit. I got modkilled for lack of voting and banned for it and I totally deserved it and sat out the bans. You probably shouldn't be using it for meta purposes. going to sleep now, hopefully i'll feel better tomorrow. I don't know why a scum player would post this. What would scum rean be trying to accomplish here? The rayn mislynch, or no-lynch, both of which suit scum's purposes, was progressing along just fine. Why wouldn't he sit back and post nothing? Entering the thread with an excuse post with 8 minutes left until a very controversial lynch can only possibly get everyone's attention. People were desperately looking to either find more rayn voters or to find an alternate target. Rean was already well on track to being lynched earlier... surely he would have known not make that post. | ||
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On November 23 2013 17:23 Aquanim wrote: Suppose Rean is a scum player with a headache. (I reckon playing scum would give me a headache.) If he'd posted absolutely nothing in that time period he'd look awful now - he'd have completely dodged all discussion about the Rayn lynch, whereas now he at least has an excuse for not having argued one way or another there. I don't think that he took much of a risk of getting lynched by posting that - that post may attract some attention to him but it hardly makes him look so instantly scummy that he's liable to go from 0 to 7 votes in less than 10 minutes. The replies he makes when he's pressured by Rayn don't look scummy as such to me, but I don't see anything particularly genuine about them myself either. If you can explain this further I might understand better. I just can't get past the fact that so very, very little of Rean's filter is him contributing on his own initiative - he's had to be prodded for almost everything he's said all game, and I don't see any insights or evidence of serious analytical thought in the answers he has provided. If he's town I am hoping my vote on him will incite him to perform better in this regard. I agree with you that Jampidampi's contributions this game have been entirely underwhelming. If the Rean wagon doesn't fly I'm willing to join you on Jampidampi. For the moment though I'm happier where I am. Also, I'm concerned that if we lynch Jampidampi and he flips town we will have learned almost nothing (hell we won't learn much if he flips scum), whereas if Rean flips town we will at least learn what alignment one of the main wagons of D1 was directed at. This extends to even discussion of their lynches - there's honestly not much to talk about re. a Jampi lynch. Aqua I think rayn was right about you. Sometime during N1 I started thinking that your posts sound extremely fake and this post looks like the most fake of all of them. I've highlighted all the parts that seem contrived. The last paragraph doesn't make any sense. We are at the very beginning of the cycle.. why wouldn't a jampi lynch tell us anything? There is still more than 40 hours to talk about him. There is a lot we can talk about in regards to a jampi lynch. For starters, I would like you to give your read on him, rather than by agreeing you will consolidate if needed, because that is something that most people will say about most lynches. What is your read on jampi? | ||
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I would rather the scumteam not know who I want to vote just yet. | ||
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On November 23 2013 16:14 Aquanim wrote: And if you're wondering why I didn't comment on Bereft earlier, it's because I wanted to see the opinions of some lurkers before showing mine - but what the hell. Does this remind anyone of anything? | ||
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On November 23 2013 18:29 Bereft wrote: no, what is it supposed to remind me of? if Aqua is scum, what's his motivation for taking the time to defend me? obviously if i'm scum the motivation is clear as day. but i know i am town, and say for a moment you accept this as fact too -- what's his motivation then? because i'm genuinely curious. Why not? It gives him something to talk about. Scum love having things to talk about that don't involve pushing mislynches. That explanation reminded me of the explanation Aquanim gave at the very beginning of the game when I first accused him of not scumhunting. It's too clean, too "townie," too much what "I want to hear" from a town player. On November 23 2013 18:11 Bereft wrote:\ thrawn, i specifically wrote that breakdown of my thought process because i'm pretty confident you are town and i don't want you to get derailed on me. i'm not sure how i can break it down further since there are only so many ways i can explain how when your top scum read = your policy lynch, it's a no-brainer. i included that bit about 'in hindsight' only because i'm not so proud to think that even though i was wrong, it was the smart or right lynch. but i do stand with the belief that it was a fair lynch. is it not clear to you from my post history why rayn was my top lynch yesterday? time for some real talk + Show Spoiler [bereft read this if you're town] + I can completely understand why someone in this game would have wanted to policy lynch rayn. I can almost understand someone wanting to policy lynch him even if they thought he was town. The problem is that you referred to it as a policy lynch so often that it is hard for me to figure out if you're town, or scum hiding behind the policy lynch. I did not policy lynch rayn. I am not sure if this makes me better or worse as a player, because it means my "final answer" read was incorrect but at least I did not lynch him for the "wrong" reasons. When you are policy lynching someone you are voting for them for reasons other than you are trying to lynch scum. When you decide to policy lynch, you've already resigned yourself to the fact that the lynch might be a mislynch, but you don't care. Not caring about a mislynch is illogical given a townie's win condition. So why would you do something illogical? Did the player piss you off? Do you hate their playstyle? I am going into the territory of what I told Mocsta in the big spoilered post I made during N1 so I won't repeat myself. I just think it's important to be mindful of the "reasons" for your reasons. | ||
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On November 23 2013 18:43 Aquanim wrote: So you think I might be scum because my motives are too much like what you think a townie's motives should be? That says a hell of a lot about this forum. Look, I'm sick of this. My defence of my play IS my play. If you look at my posts and you seriously think that I am not a townie playing to my wincondition as best I can, then lynch me. Otherwise, get out of my face and let me do my thing to catch scum. No that is not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that your explanations "seem" townie, but are followed by a very bad aftertaste. And I'm not "in your face," I'm talking to Bereft. | ||
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On November 23 2013 11:43 Holyflare wrote: I am doctor and I saved thrawn. I completely forgot that this happened.... I don't know what to think about it. He said he claimed because he thought he would be vig'd so he was gonna try to confirm me as town? That..... doesn't make sense? I don't know. I can see this happening if he's a 1 shot doctor but that's not what he claimed. I don't know what to make of this: On November 23 2013 11:53 Holyflare wrote: If i survive you get your doctor for another night, if i die you don't really lose a player Somebody make sure and grill HF on his claim and all else when he gets back. What's most concerning is that his explanation for his claim changed almost every time someone asked him another question about it. | ||
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town mocsta corazon bereft aqua (very confident about all of these except maybe aqua) undecided (not null) rean scib jampi hf scum: onegu jarjar + Show Spoiler [stream of consciousness notes on reads] + -mocsta still town... no further comment -corazon's behavior has been very townie even if it's not in a pro-town way. after he decided to start playing again his posts have been pretty good -i am glad i tunneled bereft because now i have a fairly strong town read as a result. felt like I could see right into his brain while we were chatting -aqua....hmm, aqua. it may be the case that I just have a hard-on for calling him scum. the reason I changed my mind is because he's been active and has not shied away from participating in pretty much every discussion that happens while he's in the thread. he has an opinion on everything and that is townie -jampi would be in the scum group except that I looked at his game history and saw that he gets lynched a lot and can play how he's playing this game. undecided. possibly a good lurker lynch but I dont really feel like lurker lynching -scib. i might call him town but I don't feel strongly enough about that read to do so. i have spent the least time reading his filter compared to the time spent reading everyone else's -hf's claim makes no sense. there are a lot of things i thought was weird about it, that he had me as such a strong town read but earlier was trying to discredit me through my rayn vote. he gave a different explanation every time he was asked about the claim and none of them make sense. however I do not want to act on these suspicions until at least D3 unless I end up thinking he's scum for other reasons before then. actually.... something just occurred to me. why would scum hf claim doctor? to take credit for saving me... but why would he do this? there's no real reason, he wasn't really under enough suspicion to take that gamble. at first I thought "he's gonna try to look town for saving me while withholding a nk." but then when his scumteam takes 2 shots the next day, he would be exposed. that doesn't make sense. maybe town who derp claimed? -rean. rean, rean, oh rean. where are you rean? I have a different impression of his filter every time I read it. I was hoping to come to a conclusion on this read based on his D2 posts....... -onegu. don't like any of the cases he's made. agree with what others (mainly Cor) have said. might vote -jarjar... don't like his posts, and haven't liked them for awhile now ever since I read what rayn said about him. i don't like his focus on cora or how he goes about it and I don't like how much he likes talking about hf's claim. i dont like how he thinks getting hf to post flavor is alignment indicative (almost all hosts provide fake claims) and I don't like that he asked other people to claim to try and confirm hf's story. scum | ||
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On November 24 2013 11:57 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think multiple docs is unlikely. I'm trying to figure out why cora doesn't buy your claim. What I'm curious about is why you bought HF's claim so easily, and why, if you think he's town, do you insist on outing every single roll to confirm your thoughts about a claim you already accept as true? | ||
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I might can do the Onegu thing but I need to reaffirm my position on him. I am much more confident about JarJar for the reasons I posted in the "notes" spoiler and what I said in my last quote. | ||
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On November 23 2013 00:15 JarJarDrinks wrote: The fact that you think that rayn was completly wrong w/ all of his reads and gave me AND bereft townreads after the flip is suspicious to me. townie "the thing you did is suspicious" scummy "the thing you did is suspicious to me" Reason? It's forced and fake. "Is suspicious" is more aggressive/confrontational, or townie. When you say something "is suspicious" you are saying that something is suspicious. You are trying to make a point to everyone else in the thread that X person is scummy for X reasons. When you say something "is suspicious to me" you are allowing that maybe it's not that suspicious, but it is to you. It's also forced and fake because it's too many words. When you want to say something there is a natural way of saying it, and natural ways of saying things have a lower word-count than ways of saying things thought up by somebody who is lying. Making an issue over obvious sarcasm is scummy. Corazon I will look into Onegu. Obviously I agree with you but I want to see this through first. | ||
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On November 24 2013 12:35 JarJarDrinks wrote: Uh no. It's not sarcasm because you said the same thing in your "case" against me? So were you being sarcastinc there too? If not, please explain why you lied. The top one is obviously sarcasm and I do not believe that the sarcasm could be lost on you. The bottom one is a "lie" but only in the sense that "other people" was poor word choice on my part... remember that that spoiler is my stream consciousness reads.. it's me posting thoughts into the thread without bothering to reread or fact check any of it. It's not an optimal way to make cases but it is an optimal way of telling everyone exactly what my state of mind is like. It's not a "lie" that tells you anything about my alignment nor does it discredit my assertion that you are asking for role information when there is no reason to do so. | ||
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On November 24 2013 12:39 JarJarDrinks wrote: This can't be a real case right? This is more sarcasm I assume? No that's legit. That guy was mafia. When people use more words than needed to say something as simple as "I think this is scummy" and turn it into "My read is that this is scummy in my opinion" it strongly suggests that their posts and thoughts are unnatural, or faked. | ||
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On November 24 2013 13:57 Aquanim wrote: EBWOP: The only thing stopping me from lynching Holy right now is that doctor claim. same here | ||
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jampi/rean both afk, if one or both are town it makes it that much harder to get a majority on scum. if both are town and neither of them vote then town only has 6 votes and we need 6 votes to reach majority... doesn't look good hf is making no efforts to find scum but still finds time to defend his doc claim and insult people? I dont remember ever disagreeing with anything that's been pointed out about onegu recently my possible lynch targets are therefore JJD, HF, and Onegu. | ||
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On November 25 2013 03:04 Bereft wrote: i would agree with sixty percent odds. there is something that i would like to know. does chezinu write hidden messages only? will he really vote scib? Talking about how or why chezinu plays or might be town can only decrease his effectiveness if he is indeed town. On the other side of the coin if I think he's scum I'd rather him not know this until it's too late for him to adjust his play accordingly. I'm content to just watch and see how often I can figure out what he's getting at. | ||
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Chezinu! Look into my eyes.. what do you see? What lies beyond them, and what are they reflecting? | ||
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On November 25 2013 07:17 cDgCorazon wrote: Do you plan on buddying everyone in this game? that was not buddying that is me trying to read him. don't interrupt conversations | ||
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On November 25 2013 07:27 cDgCorazon wrote: I told you to have more of a thread presence today and you've failed to do that. It's detrimental to town. + Show Spoiler [for corazon] + Stop talking to me unless you're wanting to converse about reads or unless you decide I'm scum and want to figure it out. Yesterday I hadplanned on moving the thread along but I kept coming back in and seeing you throwing a fit and voting anyone who got on your nerves. You were acting like rayn did, trying to take complete control over the thread and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. I went with the "if you don't have anything nice to say" idea so I ignored this game until you calmed down. On November 25 2013 07:27 Bereft wrote: alright guys let's get our shit together. if you guys can't rally behind a mocsta or HF lynch, I think we should lynch chezinu if he doesn't come back into the thread with something useful. I'm not keen to lynch JJD or onegu over chezinu right now. Why do you want to lynch Chezinu? Do you think he will flip red? Ignore consolidation and everything... who do you want to lynch? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 24 2013 12:14 JarJarDrinks wrote: Are you Fn kidding me? + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2013 11:56 thrawn2112 wrote: -jarjar... don't like his posts, and haven't liked them for awhile now ever since I read what rayn said about him. i don't like his focus on cora or how he goes about it and I don't like how much he likes talking about hf's claim. i dont like how he thinks getting hf to post flavor is alignment indicative (almost all hosts provide fake claims) and I don't like that he asked other people to claim to try and confirm hf's story. scum On November 24 2013 12:35 JarJarDrinks wrote: Uh no. It's not sarcasm because you said the same thing in your "case" against me? So were you being sarcastinc there too? If not, please explain why you lied. On November 24 2013 12:39 JarJarDrinks wrote: This can't be a real case right? This is more sarcasm I assume? On November 24 2013 22:32 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK, go back and reread and then come back and explain to the town that this did not happen. That's the 2nd time you've posted a lie to make me look scummy. When you (JJD) think that somebody (thrawn) is lying and making ridiculous cases against you, wouldn't you be suspicious of them? Does JJD sound like he's suspicious of me? No, he's just really angry. He's angry because he's scum and he's mad that I figured out that he's scum and he thinks my cases are bad and doesn't believe he should be lynched because of them. If he was town and decided I was intentionally lying to mislynch him he would looking into my filter and asking me questions about it, or saying my push on him is scummy, etc. ##vote: JarJarDrinks Corazon.. I made a bunch of posts about why JJD is mafia last night. You barely commented on them besides saying it was too hasty of a vote. If you want me to even think about not lynching JJD then you need to convince me that I'm wrong about him. | ||
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On November 25 2013 07:59 cDgCorazon wrote: Scum would try to discredit and attack the person (this is what he did, trying to discredit me by calling me a liar, but not scum) Town would try to discredit and attack the argument as well as being suspicious of the person attacking them Go read those quotes again. Does it look like JJD thinks I'm mafia? He IS trying to discredit me by making fun of my cases and calling me a liar, but he is NOT calling me scum. He is trying to make me look bad, and therfore make my case look bad, without having to stick his neck out by calling me mafia. If he's town, and thought I was lying about him and making really terrible cases he would be suspicious of my motives. He was not suspicious, he was only interested in making me look bad. | ||
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On November 25 2013 08:07 Bereft wrote: thrawn, why are you so certain mocsta is town? is it because he called you his baby?? trust me, these sweet nothings will get you nowhere. do you think onegu's case is without merit? telepathy Onegu's case was about mocsts switching his scumreads all the time for no reason. Surely after yesterday's lynch everyone has learned not to use that as a scum tell? Onegu needs to prove why Mocsta's switches promote scum agenda and I don't know how that can be done until we see more flips. | ||
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On November 25 2013 08:21 cDgCorazon wrote: Maybe he thinks you are just misguided town? Town can make bad cases too, not just scum. I think he is trying to make only your case look bad, and you are making the incorrect conclusion that he is trying to make you look bad also. Your lynch isn't on his agenda, so I'm more inclined to think that he just thinks you are town making a bad case, which isn't too far off if you are town. Speaking of JJD's agenda, what is it? What has he done during D2? He has thrown suspicion on you and mocsta but he hasn't pushed either of those lynches. He was very trusting of HF's blue claim and that is very suspicious. He asked for roleblock claims and that is suspicious. I'm not even suggesting that he is fishing for blue claims to plan out his night kills. It's bad because townies don't try to figure out claims by asking other people to claim this early on in the game. Townies know that if someone with a blue role has a reason for knowing that HF's claim is bs, that blue role will come forth. Asking roleblockers to claim this early on just isn't what townies do.... because townies don't want to reveal blue roles. He still hasn't voted. We have no idea who he wants to lynch. | ||
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On November 25 2013 09:11 cDgCorazon wrote: Sorry Moc, there is no way we are going to no-lynch today. It's only going to hurt us with lack of information. We need a flip. People voting Mocsta: You need to find other lynch trains. JJD is an acceptable one but I'm starting to think again that Onegu is the best one. I hate to say this but if you Mocsta voters force a no-lynch, I will hunt you down relentlessly and policy lynch you all. Pick a different lynch. I am in an opposite situation. I'm more confident about JJD but I think onegu is a good lynch and will consolidate if needed. I've had a suspicion all throughout this cycle that scum want to lynch mocsta today and jjd and onegu both fit that bill, but I'd argue JJD is scummier about it because he's hasn't taken a stand about his mocsta read. Onegu's case is bad and looks like a scum case as people have pointed out so I don't mind consolidating. Please don't tell people what to do with their votes, if they are scum I'd rather not give them "advice." Town knows how to consolidate. | ||
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##vote: onegu | ||
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On November 25 2013 09:30 cDgCorazon wrote: Yeah I like Onegu lynch more than JJD ##Vote: Onegu the onegu lynch.... "feels" harder to achieve? the JJD lynch seems too easy? is that what you're getting at because that's why I just changed votes | ||
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On November 25 2013 09:36 sciberbia wrote: @thrawn That's a really dumb reason. Now that the Onegu wagon has more votes (i think) by this logic you should re-vote JJD right? I really doubt there is more than maybe 1 active scum so don't base your reasoning based off of what other active players are pushing. The scumteam could be something as dumb as Alakaslam/Chezinu/JJD ##unvote JJD and ONEGU both of you are hereby summoned before the court to be judged for your crimes. As is your right, you are entitled to trial by combat. May the gods give strength to your sword if you are true and may they strike you down if you are false. | ||
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JJD has no scumreads.... and is throwing away a vote on a replacement slot... | ||
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On November 25 2013 10:31 sciberbia wrote: This thought process does not seem townie to me. He didn't like any of the cases in the thread, so therefore lynch a lurker? I dunno. I think the natural townie response when you don't like any of the current cases is to go find scum yourself. There is plenty to go on. Am I really asking too much for him to have one good scumread? To add to this it makes sense that he'd vote for mocsta, who he has spent time posting about this cycle. I am not suggesting that they are both scum but I am suggesting that it's weird that he doesn't want to join a wagon (however unlikely it is to succeed) over joining a wagon that definitely will not succeed. He's throwing away his vote. ##vote: JarJarDrinks JarJar what is your read on mocsta? | ||
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On November 25 2013 10:34 Mocsta wrote: Ok Can anyone please look at the questions I proposed like one or two posts ago about jjd I actually don't have enough time to filter dive so can't verify. If those answers are no and yes, I will support a consolidated vote on JJD he just claimed that when he was talking to/at you and corazon earlier this cycle he wasn't pushing for your lynches because he didn't really have reads, but was trying to get them. he just now voted alakaslam. | ||
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On November 25 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta To answer your questions, JJD by his own admission doesn't really have any scumreads and hasn't really been pushing anything. He wants us to lynch a lurker for lack of a lynch he actually likes. to be fair he *did* like the rean lynch so this could be an extension of that.. but it's still a very unhelpful vote | ||
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You go first | ||
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On November 25 2013 11:11 JarJarDrinks wrote: Your read on Onegu? | ||
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##vote:chezinu OR ONEGU SOMEONE TALK lol | ||
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On November 25 2013 11:57 JarJarDrinks wrote: Anyway good luck town and I'll still root for you. But u'd all deserve to lose for for not lynching heavy lurkers. guys he's town | ||
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##vote:chezinu jampi was scummy and chezin is trolling like moc said. brown chez doesn't troll he is useful even if he's brown | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [@ Cor] + Corazon I've tried very hard to not let emotions interfere with my posting. I've tried to avoid making jokes or pissing people off for my own amusement. I'm still going to abide by that, what I'm about to say is not an attempt to troll you or insult you or anything. Read it, don't get mad, realize that what I'm saying is exactly how I and probably others feel. There is a reason nobody listens to you. You act like a bully. You tell everyone what to do with their votes. You try to tell people what they're allowed to talk about. You try to tell me what my reads should be. You tell me I shouldn't have the same reads as Mocsta. You tried telling that I need to be town leader, which I do not want to do and you'd understand why if you've read WC2. Why do you think you have this authority? You don't! You start off this game just as null as everyone else, people are paranoid of your motives, you are not an "innocent child" and nobody has voted you mayor. When nobody listens to you, you whine and complain and throw a giant fit. Anytime somebody decides "hey Corazon is in this game, maybe I should try to figure out his alignment, I'm going to go talk to him and ask questions about his play" and then you post stuff like this: On November 24 2013 00:36 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm sick of this shit. My play has been nitpicked more than anyone else's the entire game and it has gone nowhere. Why does everyone think that they are required to post every single thought of theirs? That is how threads get to be 200 pages long. I'm done. I'm absolutely done. From now on, I'm just going to vote everyone who nitpicks my posts for no reason. Fuck you guys. Why do you think anyone wants to do what you say? You are completely uncompromising and you act like you actually have the authority to tell people exactly what they should be doing. This is not grubby's chat room. You don't have mod powers, and you have to respond to people when they are questioning you. All that being said, I look forward to figuring out Onegu's alignment with you. I am not being mean, I am trying to tell you why things are the way they are. Do I wish I'd spent more time looking at Onegu? Yes. But you are acting like everyone is to blame except you and that is false. Go read your filter from around the time of the quote I posted and maybe you will understand where I'm coming from. That ok? Will things be kept civil from here on out? | ||
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On November 25 2013 16:09 Aquanim wrote: Is the sun Moc-star? that's an awful pun if so I got nothing re. the dragon. It's vital that nobody enter this conversation, at least until Chezinu replies. Avert your eyes! They only surface when you're "not" paying attention! | ||
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What do you think about jampi's play? I want to hear aqua talk about this as well. Alakaslam I want to know your read on chezinu since you talked to him a bit during D2. | ||
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On November 25 2013 16:35 Alakaslam wrote: Well, I am worried. There are two people with unadulterated power to Svengali me on TL, Five who bear great power to influence me; In order, they are: BlazingHand, Chezinu, VisceraEyes, Marvellosity, Coagulation Therefore, I refer you to the nazi rowing the lifeboat analogy. Never mind that. What's your read on him? | ||
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I take it you've already read rean's filter? Did reading that filter give you any ideas about who might be mafia? | ||
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On November 25 2013 17:02 Mocsta wrote: Further to jampi being scum. Chezinu has made no effort to integrate into the thread. Even when Scibs was roleplaying with him; Chezinu decided to be distant. I do not profess to be an expert of Chezinu -- heck I have only seen him play scum. But the couple games I seen him played scum, hes distant and unhelpful. (Matching up to my expectations) I feel very confident about this slot being scum. Chezinu's roleplaying has a purpose, it allows him to hide behind what everyone writes off as "trolling" so he can read people, and communicate his reads to his town reads without the mafia team being aware of his motives. I am not familiar with his scumplay but I'd assume that when he roleplays as mafia, he's hiding behind it, trying to make it look like there is no difference between town and scum chezinu. I remember playing scum vs town chezinu and it was terrifying, because I couldn't actually tell what responses I should give him because he hid his real questions so well. I don't think he's committed to his roleplaying as a means to catch scum. I could understand his points about scib but they are overly simplistic and some of the points are misrepresentations of what scib said (scib never called rean town in that post, only implied that rayn thought rean was town) That was what I meant when I said "not enough brown." On November 25 2013 09:36 Chezinu wrote:However, style before victory. Having both the sun and the dragon live in the end is a more stylish victory. Just need to feed the dragon something else... style before victory On March 03 2013 12:08 Chezinu wrote: VII. Style before Victory Winning is not always easy. Winning with style is harder yet. Before you win a game, you must ask yourself. How do I want to win this? You want to be remembered for the fun you bring to the games and the style in which you win them. Winning the game as lurker is no fun at all, especially when you are mafia. Most of town will not remember that it was you who caused their demise, unless you send them the right message such as spelling GOSU with your night kills and sniping all of the blues roles. However, you must not limit your style to secrets. The reward of winning tastes so much better if you fool the town as one of the most active members. Be creative. Create your own theme if appropriate (point IV) or latch on to another’s, they will appreciate the addition to their fantasy (point V). This is taken from his House of Chezinu guide. What is the style before victory section mainly about? Winning as scum. dragon and sun I know I may have shown my hand in regards to my question about the "dragon" and "sun." The dragon and sun are obviously meant to be certain people in the game, that's the explanation that makes the most sense. When Chez roleplays everything he says is a metaphor for something in the game. Why a townie think that winning the game with certain people still in it is worth more than a victory without them? They wouldn't, because they don't know alignments. A scum player would certainly be able to derive satisfaction from winning a game and not killing off certain players whom he deemed a threat to his survival. What I'm getting at is in that post Chezinu was literally scumclaiming... style before victory, no? /tinfoil | ||
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On November 25 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote: This game .. haha Ohh man I will take that. What did you think of the jampi aspect? I was just about to try getting a wagon going on him right before rayn decided to lynch himself... since then I haven't put too much thought into it. I don't even remember what my read on him has been since that without going into my filter. I do remember the thing I found most scummy about him was his obsessive tunnel on aqua, which is a scumread he developed only immediately after I asked him about my aqua case. He said he agreed, voted aqua, then did nothing but call aqua scum the rest of the day iirc do you think i'm being absolutely insane about that chezinu post? | ||
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On November 26 2013 10:54 Aquanim wrote: Thrawn, are you about? yeah what's up scum is onegu. 1 or two out of chezinu and bereft, then maybe scib or alak? you corazon and mocsta are town i have no doubts about any of that. i can't say why i think bereft or scib could be scum because i am town reading them, more town on scib than bereft, but alas there are 3 scum so I must be wrong about something onegu is mafia because he is way too confident in his read on corazon. he is pants on head in a scummy tunneling way. there is no way that a town onegu would ever say that he's going to be night killed because he has the game figured out... he knows everyone wants him dead, if he is town he would not expect mafia to kill him when they can "mislynch" him | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
usually that means i'm wrong will look at filters when i can get on pc | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 26 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote: I find it highly likely that Onegu is mafia But I find it conclusive that jampi is mafia. I dont see the point of this post? Are you arguing that jampi could be town? no they are both mafia but onegu's derp conversation with corazon "confirms" him as scum so we lynch him first | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 26 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote: I find it highly likely that Onegu is mafia But I find it conclusive that jampi is mafia. I dont see the point of this post? Are you arguing that jampi could be town? my response to this should have been swtich "highly likely" and "conclusive" and those are my reads... opposite of yours. wanting to lynch for info is bad do you think that there is any possilbe way for a town onegu, who knows that he almost got lynched d2 and that people want to lynch him in d3, thinks that he will be nightkilled? that post was so fake.. here let me show you On November 26 2013 06:06 Onegu wrote: Trust me Im reading very close. You wont like what I found since I will prove you are scum, since its 4am Im going to give you the big things now, and do a full case like mocsta where I dont cherrypick and show all your scummyness tomorrow, but since I am now right onto the real scumteam I might be shot tonight. Preview + Show Spoiler + Mocsta, cDgCorazon, rean/alakaslam to quote corazon "LOL" | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I've talked about why I'm bad for lynching rayn in the obs qt.. I think my other biggest problem was letting Corazon get on my nerves. I stopped caring during D2. I knew Cor was town... but what should I do in that situation? I didn't feel like there was any action I could take other than lynching Onegu that wouldn't end up with Corazon interrupting every single conversation I tried to start. I wrote a lot more than this but it became more and more about other people instead of myself so I will stop here for now. I'll continue after... after the flames of passion have died down. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 03 2013 12:21 cDgCorazon wrote: How am I supposed to feel when that happens? it's not about feelings. it's about your wincon. if you're town that means it's about who is scum and who is not. in that scenario you referred to, neither of us were correct. injecting your emotions into the game, especially when they are negative can only decrease the quality of yours and everyone else's logic | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
We are arguing about if town should have listened to me and lynched a townie, or listened to you and lynched a townie! Neither of those options align with our alignment's win condition! + Show Spoiler + While we're on the subject I'm going to say my piece then I won't talk about it again, because as I just stated, this is a pointless argument. You are mistaking town going "no we don't want to lynch ongeu" with town going "we are ignoring you." Nobody ignored your Onegu cases. Maybe people did initially in a "tldr" fashion, but people usually go back and read things they skip the first time. I read your Onegu case. I agreed with what you said. That doesn't mean that Onegu must become my top scumread. I can have my own scumreads! When you say that we bullied you, what actually happened is that nobody agreed that Onegu was the top lynch candidate. That's all! Nobody wrote "fuck you corazon you're a fucking idiot" and nobody wrote "hey guys lets all make fun of corazon!" That isn't what happened at all. Done with that As I mentioned at the start of this post... the "conflict" that you imagined happening between us is irrelevant because neither of us had correct reads. The only part of that which might be relevant to improvement is how to to convince the town of your opinions when you *are* correct. We can talk about that all day, but talking about our "feelings" and how someone may have "been bullied" doesn't help anyone. If your argument holds merit, you do not need to...... SVENGALI (green, because town can also maliciously manipulate others in order to get their point across, example = fake cop claiming) people into agreeing with you. If you can distill your argument to as few words as possible so that the argument doesn't lose it's bite then it will be easier for people to process, it will stick in their minds the way a soundbite does, it saves everyone's time, and makes the thread less complicated. Do those kinds of things instead of making the lynch about your feelings because once you do that, you start losing credibility even if people still think you are town. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:38 Mocsta wrote: But the mislynch was intentional. Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read. I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content. this is a problem I have (maybe had?) i remember getting lynched in mylo or something similar, and the gist of the case was that I was changing my reads too often and I was all over the place... a giant incoherent mess of a filter. this was maybe a year or so ago.. dont recall... what i try to do lately.. what I tried doing in this game was stop myself right before I was about to hit the "post" button and ask myself.... "does the rest of the town really need to read this? are there any reasons why they shouldn't read it? are there any reasons why I don't want X to read this (when X is a scum player who is the subject of my post, regardless of whether I am town or scum reading them) will clicking this post button actually help the thread lynch scum?" people don't need to read your every thought. it may in some cases make you look townie to those people who are good at making stream of consciousness based reads, but there are other ways to look townie and many times it makes you look either A) scummy or B) fickle and stupid | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 03 2013 13:52 yamato77 wrote: Another suggestion; don't be as cocksure as you appear to be now about every read. Leave some room for doubt. I do it all the time and people don't call me mafia for it. You cannot be sure in this game of interpretation. That way, if you explained your doubts beforehand, it's easier to comprehend why you would have a change of mind later on in regard to the read on the player. this is a big part of that reason. a lot of your posts have an air of.... it;s hard to describe... maybe assholishness? but that's not the right word because you aren't (i don't think) doing it maliciously. it's like you're making an effort to make your posts funny, or entertaining, or amusing... but many times the jokes are at people's expense. no that's no right either. it's things like this: On November 22 2013 01:57 Mocsta wrote: You have my full attention Corazon. Please detail my C.B., and why Rayns behaviour from what, 2hrs ago was acceptable. it's... not really a joke... but there is a sarcastic air to it. if corazon's town then a post like this can only piss him off. you know how corazon reacts when you (specifically you) poke at him. this is something that you and I actually discussed in our telepathic mason chat during the first hours of the game. he might decide you're scum, because why would a townie try to anger and provoke people? like I said.. these things you're doing aren't overt... it's the tone of your posts. lay back on the sarcasm and useless aggression. i support being aggressive to try and read somebody.. but when there's a slight hint of hostility behind all of your posts it might cause others to question your motives. this is something I used to have a really huge problem with. i still go into "sarcastic aggression" mode every now and then but I'm trying to stop it. I have to make a conscious effort to avoid doing it EVERY time I post. you can tell tht i'm doing this by comparing my posts when the game is slow and my posts when the game is moving quickly... when conversation picks up I forget to not be a dick and that probably ruins my reads because they were reads I formed while "high" off of my own sarcasm ahhh... that's the exact word I was looking for... sarcastic aggression. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
"i will sheep thrawn, except for that one thing that thrawn is doing (lynching rayn) and probably will end up doing" which basically meant you weren't going to do anything.... somehow I actually forgot you were in the game even after your doc claim, i didn't even mention you in my final reads post. i have no clue what happened there | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:41 cDgCorazon wrote: And tbh I'm getting way too much blame for the town's loss. Stop calling mafia a team game and then solely blaming Rayn and I for "messing up the town atmosphere". iirc most people have been pretty forthcoming regarding their own shortcomings | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 21 2013 17:46 thrawn2112 wrote: lazy reads 2.0 scum rean lonemeow and rayn or scib damn I wish i would have explained my lazy reads because right now I can't remember what i was thinking when I wrote this post....maybe my personal secret to being good at mafia is to get high, use gut reads, and never put thought into anything? (jk obviously.. or not? this is what I'm asking) Does anyone have any serious concerns with my play? ....other than how I handled rayn, I think I know exactly why I got that wrong (although I'm a bit surprised that we haven;t had an argument about policy lynching yet) was I being too nice this game? basically what I'm asking is this... should I go back to standard thrawn obvious spammy townie, or more what I did here? weirdly enough... I think my play in this game resembles my play in my first newbie more than my play in any other game, and i had slightly better reads this game than I normally do which leads me to the conclusion that I've been dreading for a few months now, that my play is actually getting worse over time. i hope (hope, because if true, I know how to fix) that my problem is that I have decent gut (lazy) reads, but the more thought I put into a read, the more convoluted my thought process becomes and I end up over-thinking everything to the point where even I don't know what my reads are. see the later stages of desert mafia for examples. tldr: 2 questions: 1 looking for criticism outside of how I handeled rayn 2 looking for advice, asking if I'm correct in my secret fear that I'm getting worse over time and I need to reinvent my play | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 03 2013 16:54 yamato77 wrote: thrawn - obviously town, a little backseat for my tastes. You have good reads in general, and know how to play town, you just don't have that leader-y quality that top tier townies do. yeah that last bit resonates but in the opposite way that you intend it to I think the problem is that I post so_damn_much that I almost confirm myself as town and then people start looking to the obvious townie to give them answers. That's not I responsibility I've earned and it definitely isn't one I want. It looks like you're saying I should improve my leader-y qualities... but I actually disagree. Read the first 2 days of desert mafia if you want to know what happens when I become town leader. I'm too indecisive for that position. In the future I think I am going to go for more of a backseat role. My normal spammy play is so townie, just soooo townie, and I think I can suffer it being a little less townie if it means I get to hide my cards and nurture my suspicions a bit longer. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 04 2013 00:11 Mocsta wrote: Seeing that last post of Onegu again. I would love to know in general why all the town thought it was scummy to have a post restriction and then remove it. Lol.. like its null .. but if you really wanted to stretch the alignment-boundaries, its definitely townier to remove it. Scum should be happy to use it as a fallback to lurking. that was one of the reasons I decided you were town... or at least why i didn't think you were scum. early on, I thought that "if mocsta keeps to his post restriction and it causes him to be unproductive at a critical time for town, then he's scum" | ||
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