I liked JJD's case. I'd like to add that at the start of the game Rean says he will not tolerate one-liners, spam, etc etc. Then he proceeds in giving half-arsed answers like "Moscta says this then that".
Mocsta seems quite town, he's driving the discussion and promoting good atmosphere. I like it. I also liked his questions to Aquanim at the start of the game. To me it looked like Aquanim was just asking some random questions from Mocsta and trying to burn his "post-limit" for nothing. I don't like Aquanim.
Nothing much to say about others, slightly leaning town on thrawn for same reasons as Mocsta. There was one post that bothered me about Corazon, it was the post where he talked about "how we should play". I felt like it didn't really say much and it felt somewhat forced to me.
I don't know and i don't care. They both look individually bad to me. I'll reconsider when i see flips. I am not looking into connections now. Everyone has made good posts and those people have made bad posts in my opinion. I do not think Aquanim's reasons for voting for Rean are strong, i don't even know if he thinks he is scum as this is what he says:
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
thrawn one thing i don't understand is your questioning on sciberbia at the start of the game. I see nothing wrong with sciberbia's posts. Wanna explain that?
On November 21 2013 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because i have not been reading your posts closely enough it seems like. :p I liked your posts on Aquanim. Very much.
That much was clear hence my query on the bussing.
I am not satisfied.
Rean votes Aquanim. -- Rayn approves
Aquanim votes Rean. -- Rayn approves as he has voted Rean
Thrawn cases Aquanim -- Rayn approves
?? cases Rean. -- Rayn approves
Mocsta asks for town read -- Rayn approves
Thrawn asks for town read -- Rayn approves
Do you see a common denominator?
I have no idea what you are saying in this post. I just said i did not approve Aquanim's vote on Rean because i think he should be voting for Corazon instead as his posting implies so. Where have i approved Rean's vote on Aquanim?
On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote: @thrawn I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.
That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why..
On November 20 2013 12:00 Mocsta wrote: post 1 Yo fuck the POLICE
true dat
These posts came before your comment on Mocsta. Aren't they both as "safe" and "trolly" as what Corazon did? Why did you decide that only Corazon deserved to be called out for what bereft and I also did?
One of your concerns with C's post is that it "echoes what Mocsta said." Typically a point like this can be valid when someone restates another's argument, and the reason why it would be scummy is because it means the person who "echoes" has to "echo" because they cannot produce content of their own. Are you really trying to suggest that Corazon didn't know what to say, so he decided to copy Mocsta, and is therefore scummy? That argument completely falls apart when you're talking about something so silly and non-alignment indicative as saying "fuck the police."
This post. I think you are being unreasonable about nothing...
On November 21 2013 02:54 Mocsta wrote: ^^ thats the same fucking quote I posted?
how does that support your original question??
Thrawn never probed scibs??
I suggest you start reading before you post. I said i see nothing wrong with sciberbia wanting to start the discussion. I am asking thrawn why does he think that's scummy enough to be questioned.
... On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?
I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.
Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.
Like what? "Yo i was just trolling and and you also might be scummy to not understand that".
That's nice way to turn "wanting to start the discussion" into "you look scummy".
On November 21 2013 03:01 thrawn2112 wrote: Rayn I still don't see what problem you have with that post. It happened during a time when very few players had posted so posts like that are needed to get discussion going. You claim I was making a big deal about nothing. But did I? Have I continued harping on scib? Am I still making a big deal out of it? Have I ever once suggested that he's my main scumread? I am doing - have done none of those things and I think your question to me tells you even less information about my alignment than the question I asked of scib.
When i read your post I think you overplayed it. Made it look like sciberbia looks somehow bad from that post. Yeah i agree i could be wrongand that's probably nothing.
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
Rean this post is sciberbia's second last post in this game so far. How is it possible for sciberbia to make some effort into questioning you more when he hasn't posted since? I think you are twisting the situation to fit your agenda of calling him scum for no reason. Because this looks like a really stretched accusation.
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
Rean this post is sciberbia's second last post in this game so far. How is it possible for sciberbia to make some effort into questioning you more when he hasn't posted since? I think you are twisting the situation to fit your agenda of calling him scum for no reason. Because this looks like a really stretched accusation.
I'm not calling him a damn thing >.> I'm saying it's bullshit that he goes around saying I'm his second-strongest scumread while he hasn't done anything about it, it feels dodgy to me. But I don't want to push this issue any further without giving him a chance to defend himself or explain.
Well how could he possibly have done anything about it because he has not posted since?
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
Rean this post is sciberbia's second last post in this game so far. How is it possible for sciberbia to make some effort into questioning you more when he hasn't posted since? I think you are twisting the situation to fit your agenda of calling him scum for no reason. Because this looks like a really stretched accusation.
I'm not calling him a damn thing >.> I'm saying it's bullshit that he goes around saying I'm his second-strongest scumread while he hasn't done anything about it, it feels dodgy to me. But I don't want to push this issue any further without giving him a chance to defend himself or explain.
Well how could he possibly have done anything about it because he has not posted since?
Neither before nor after he did anything about it. That's why I said it feels odd...but as I've said twice already, I want to see his response to this. Maybe you're right and he just wanted his opinion to be known. We'll know once he gets in here.
It is the first time he says you are his second strongest scum-read. Probably because of something you said. So there is no possible way he can prod you before you say something that makes him think so. Furthermore i don't understand how you find that "odd" or "dodgy". I could understand it if sciberbia had posted 10 times after he called you out and those posts were about something other than his top scumread. But i do not understand the approach you are taking here - asking him "why am your second strongest scum-read" would be totally fine - but you are accusing him of having you as a scumread when there is no possible way he could have explained himself.
So yeah, i think that comment of yours regarding sciberbia is really scummy.
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nah thrawn you are making things up. Onegu what the hell are you doing?
I'm all ears, im pretty tired but the gist went roughly as I remembered??
He is seeing something that's not there. I said what i thought was good in him and what i didn't understand and questioned it. That's it. If he somehow twists it into "rayn says what i want to hear" there is nothing i can say about it but "no",
Yeah my problem with Aqua is not his case on Rean. My problem is that based on what he posted after that i think he should be voting for Corazon instead of Rean. That's really weird.
Rean, since you apparently are not answering JarJar's case i would like you to explain the following things:
At the start ofthe game you said you will not tolerate spam/one-liners/shitting up the thread etc. Then you proceed on acting just like you said people should not act. Why?
Why do you actually think Corazon and sciberbia are scum?
After you call Cora/scib your strongest scumreads in the next post you vote for Aquanim. Now you are saying you agree with thrawn/my reasoning. Yet thrawn's reasoning was already in thread and what you said about my reasoning (Aqua voting for you while he should logically vote for Cora) later on contradicts yourself in what you said earlier (as that's not what you said). Explain that.
Why are you refusing to answer JJD's case? Don't you think bad/wrong cases should be shut down or what's the reason?
On November 21 2013 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cora why not having "any original reasoning" for voting for someone is scummy? People sheep all the time.
But sheeping on arguments made 15 hours ago? That's not scummy?
I dunno, does the argument somehow vanish if it gets "too old"?
On November 21 2013 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cora why not having "any original reasoning" for voting for someone is scummy? People sheep all the time.
But sheeping on arguments made 15 hours ago? That's not scummy?
I dunno, does the argument somehow vanish if it gets "too old"?
Well to me it looks like an attempt to make a case without doing the work. It also doesn't help when I've refuted all of the points and he still decides to make the case. It's scummy because it's fake scum-hunting.
Well this answer is much better in case it's true. I didn't even read Onegu's post because i know 98% from it can't possibly make anyone scum.
On November 21 2013 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rean, since you apparently are not answering JarJar's case i would like you to explain the following things:
At the start ofthe game you said you will not tolerate spam/one-liners/shitting up the thread etc. Then you proceed on acting just like you said people should not act. Why?
Why do you actually think Corazon and sciberbia are scum?
After you call Cora/scib your strongest scumreads in the next post you vote for Aquanim. Now you are saying you agree with thrawn/my reasoning. Yet thrawn's reasoning was already in thread and what you said about my reasoning (Aqua voting for you while he should logically vote for Cora) later on contradicts yourself in what you said earlier (as that's not what you said). Explain that.
Why are you refusing to answer JJD's case? Don't you think bad/wrong cases should be shut down or what's the reason?
I did answer one point that I felt needed to be adressed, 'kinda forgot about the others.
1. I don't see what you mean with this. While some of my posts were short and to the point, I don't think it's a problem. I prefer not to write endless paragraphs if a short and simple answer suffices. And they definitely weren't spam/shitting up the thread.
2. On Cora: at the time cases on him seemed convincing and he felt off. But after rereading his filter I don't feel so strongly anymore, he's actively participating and his logic isn't too bad. On Scib: I don't like how he's constantly trying to follow others with posts like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote: Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other
@thrawn You are masons?
Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.
I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.
On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta You're wrong about me but I think you may very well be right about Cora. I resent that you stole my thunder though -- almost done a case on him.
@thrawn I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote: EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Just feels to me like he's only going for people others are already going for, dodgy. But still waiting for him to explain his suspicion of me like I said before.
3. Again, I don't follow. I said the Cora/Scib part while also putting suspicion on Aqua because of his playstyle, trying to pressure him. And the way he responded to the pressure really gave me heavy scumvibes, enough to vote for him.
4. I already adressed a point I felt was him taking things wrongly.
1) You gave answers like "Mocsta said this and that" and "Mocsta could be town or he could be scum". How is that supposed to help people think what do you think about people when you are not giving straight answers? 2) So you felt Cora was scummy because of what other people said but then sciberbia was scummy because he seemed to be agreeing a lot with what other people said? Aren't you clearly contradicting yourself here? 3) I mean you liked thrawn's reasoning (also see (2), why is scib scummy then?). It was already in thread but at that time you still listed Cora/scib over Aquanim. Then you used completely different reasoning on Aquanim's post and later on "corrected" the reasoning into fitting what i said about that post.
So, aren't you doing exactly the same things you think sciberbia is scum for?
On November 21 2013 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rean, since you apparently are not answering JarJar's case i would like you to explain the following things:
At the start ofthe game you said you will not tolerate spam/one-liners/shitting up the thread etc. Then you proceed on acting just like you said people should not act. Why?
Why do you actually think Corazon and sciberbia are scum?
After you call Cora/scib your strongest scumreads in the next post you vote for Aquanim. Now you are saying you agree with thrawn/my reasoning. Yet thrawn's reasoning was already in thread and what you said about my reasoning (Aqua voting for you while he should logically vote for Cora) later on contradicts yourself in what you said earlier (as that's not what you said). Explain that.
Why are you refusing to answer JJD's case? Don't you think bad/wrong cases should be shut down or what's the reason?
I did answer one point that I felt needed to be adressed, 'kinda forgot about the others.
1. I don't see what you mean with this. While some of my posts were short and to the point, I don't think it's a problem. I prefer not to write endless paragraphs if a short and simple answer suffices. And they definitely weren't spam/shitting up the thread.
2. On Cora: at the time cases on him seemed convincing and he felt off. But after rereading his filter I don't feel so strongly anymore, he's actively participating and his logic isn't too bad. On Scib: I don't like how he's constantly trying to follow others with posts like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote: Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other
@thrawn You are masons?
Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.
I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.
On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta You're wrong about me but I think you may very well be right about Cora. I resent that you stole my thunder though -- almost done a case on him.
@thrawn I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote: EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Just feels to me like he's only going for people others are already going for, dodgy. But still waiting for him to explain his suspicion of me like I said before.
3. Again, I don't follow. I said the Cora/Scib part while also putting suspicion on Aqua because of his playstyle, trying to pressure him. And the way he responded to the pressure really gave me heavy scumvibes, enough to vote for him.
4. I already adressed a point I felt was him taking things wrongly.
1) You gave answers like "Mocsta said this and that" and "Mocsta could be town or he could be scum". How is that supposed to help people think what do you think about people when you are not giving straight answers? 2) So you felt Cora was scummy because of what other people said but then sciberbia was scummy because he seemed to be agreeing a lot with what other people said? Aren't you clearly contradicting yourself here? 3) I mean you liked thrawn's reasoning (also see (2), why is scib scummy then?). It was already in thread but at that time you still listed Cora/scib over Aquanim. Then you used completely different reasoning on Aquanim's post and later on "corrected" the reasoning into fitting what i said about that post.
So, aren't you doing exactly the same things you think sciberbia is scum for?
1. I said what I was thinking. If I thought they were leaning town or scum I'd say so but I didnt so. Perhaps not as decisive as others but I spoke my mind, can't ask for more? 2. There's a difference between agreeing with others and trying to find scum yourself aswell and just piggybacking of others 24/7, which I feel is what Scib is doing. 3. Can you quote the specific posts please? Having a hard time understanding what exactly you are on about
1) Well we have to agree to disagree. I think you have a lot of posts that say nothing. 2) Those posts you quoted are definitely not "piggybacking others". Actually they are the opposite. 3) I mean this: Here is where you agree with thrawn's case:
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you.
This is what you talk about Aquanim's vote on you:
You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments.
You are saying Aqua is OMGUSing you and then presenting himself an out in the first place. What i say later is Aquanim by his logic should be voting for Corazon and not Rean. You then say "yes that's what i was saying" while you are not saying the same thing at all. What you say and what i say are two definitely different things.
Corazon tbh i find it hard to find why you actually think sciberbia is scum. Yes i see this:
He didn't do it with just me. He told Moc and I that it was scummy that we made troll posts. At least Mocsta was direct in saying who he thought was scummy instead of sciberia who is only doing a "window looking" version of scum hunting.
..and this:
While sciberia simply misreads my posts and attacks me, yet doesn't give any conclusion to his read on me. Way less direct and clear then what Mocsta did.
..but could you clarify what actually makes you think so. I can't find these things to be true from what i read from sciberbia.
Corazon i believe sciberbia when he says it was a discussion starter (the first post). Do you believe you two may have just looked things differently about your mason-incident? Because i find that to be the most likely explanation. I don't think either of you is lying or trying to make shit up, you just read each other's posts differently.
I agree with you on Aquanim and Onegu. What do you think of Bereft?
On November 21 2013 07:10 cDgCorazon wrote: EBWOP: I also said (in an earlier post) that I didn't like how he was trying to bring conversation off of Aqua and onto me. That's what concerns me about LM.
I think that's fine if he thinks Aquanim is town and there is something weird in you/scib. But as i said i'm waiting for his updated thoughts.
On November 21 2013 07:33 thrawn2112 wrote: rayn is aight for now. so is corazon and jarjar. ofc moc is conf town
i'll take any odds that there's a scum in aqua/rean and if it's only one of them it's 100% aqua. i reread rean and his play is way scummier than i remember thinking it was at the time i became convinced about aqua
everyone else is currently difficult to read
i will resume tryharding and using punctuation/capitalization when I return but for now this is lazy reads ver 1.0. i am very busy today and might not be able to post again till tomorrow (like at least + 12 hrs from now)
toodles
sciberbia is quite fine aswell and jampidampi is voting for Aquanim so we lynch Aquanim -> Onegu -> Lonemeow -> Bereft, maybe Rean. ggnore game solved.
Because Bereft said she's (you are the same Bereft from voice mafia right?) gonna follow that post up. Of course that's not a good post but a lot of people do those list posts. I'm waiting for her to follow that up.
On November 21 2013 08:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are you voting for Rean when your post suggests you have a bigger scumread (or at least better reasons) on Corazon?
Well, I was voting Rean to pressure him, since Corazon was already being pressured. At this point, though, the pressure from my vote appears pretty irrelevant. I'mma reread the last ten pages or so and decide who my greatest scumread is now, and then I'll vote for them. The time for me to mess around with pressuring and such appears to be well and truly past.
Uhh.. I really don't like this. Are you saying your contributions at the start of the game were just "messing around" and "pressuring people"? That's a weak way to "flush all suspicion away", by just saying "guys hey, i was just messing around, now i start playing".
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread. What's your case on Rean again?
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response
My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
4) He has shown little to no original thought
Can you tell me,at the time of your vote, how you have contributed towards scumhunting more than Rean had?
So you quote two posts, one of yours where you give three different answers in comparsion to Rean's one, and even the questions are different.
If we compare something let's take the first quote of yours and the quote from Rean. Both answers are something that need to be explained. Yours, because people (and i agree with them) didn't understand how you can possibly draw a conclusion that Mocsta is town from that post as you didn't explain it. Rean's because instead of saying "null" he decided to characterize Mocsta's posting style. So i do not see how that's different at all. In next post Rean explains himself better, he says "null" in other words, again.
The second quote of yours, i have absolutely no idea what saying "i agree with Corazon on this is supposed to accomplish". Was that post very townie? because you are not really saying anything.
The last quote of yours, yes, that's a legit question. But then again you quoted three contributions of yourself and only one from Rean so you are not playing a fair game in my opinion, you are playing 3 vs 1.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: ...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
Why the contradiction?
I'm seriously getting tired of answering this question over and over and over again with slightly different introductions. My vote on Corazon would not have pressured him significantly more than he was already, and thus would not have accomplished anything. My vote on Rean did pressure him more (or would have if the thread hadn't jumped on me immediately afterwards).
I'm sorry i don't buy that. Corazon clearly states he will not vote for anyone but his top scumread at the time, you agree, and then you do not vote for your top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: ...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
Why the contradiction?
I'm seriously getting tired of answering this question over and over and over again with slightly different introductions. My vote on Corazon would not have pressured him significantly more than he was already, and thus would not have accomplished anything. My vote on Rean did pressure him more (or would have if the thread hadn't jumped on me immediately afterwards).
I'm sorry i don't buy that. Corazon clearly states he will not vote for anyone but his top scumread at the time, you agree, and then you do not vote for your top scumread.
I agreed with the frusturation he feels at watching people claim to have found the entire scumteam without flipping any of them. I didn't agree with "always vote your top scumread" - though it is typically what I'd choose to do at the end of the day (barring the possibility of a no-lynch), there are other profitable things which may be done with a vote before then.
So you agreed with that part. Why is your vote not on Mocsta who claimed he found the scumteam at the start ofthe game? You are talking out of your ass.
On top of that you have now given two different explanations to the situation. First it was regarding your vote, now it's regarding Corazon's statement. What gives? You change your story all the time.
Mocsta i'm done arguing about it because Aquanim is giving different answers to the same question when i don't buy his first one. I am pretty sure i am right on this.
Mocsta, he could have after the first time said "well that's my answer, deal with it, but that's what i thought." Instead of that he makes up a new answer when the first one does not please me.
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: ...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
Why the contradiction?
This is the best case in this game.
Really, cause I think this case sucks.
@ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts.
But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread.
Yes, he was agreeing with Corazon about always voting for his top scumread. Then he proceeds to vote for his non-top scumread.
When i ask him about it he does not deny that, he says something about why his vote was good. I say i don't buy it, then he changes his story.
On November 21 2013 10:24 sciberbia wrote: Of the players that started posting since I went to bed last night, I think Onegu looks by far the worst. His actions look inconsistent with a town mindset.
Pay close attention to what his reads are, and how what he chooses to post about is incongruous with his stated reads.
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>
Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post.
Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change.
Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy.
Anyway rean is really scumm though.
Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though.
In Onegu's first post, he states pretty significant scumreads on rean and Cora, both of whom have had significant heat on them today. But he spends the majority of his actual words in his post rambling about Mocsta's post count restriction, which is so irrelevant, seeing as he dropped it.
Rean and Cora are rather large issues in the thread, and given that Onegu has rather significant scumreads on them, you would expect the majority of his posts to be dedicated to them, but notice how he always seems to instead ramble on about Mocsta.
On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote: Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town: - Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum) - Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player - Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to .
Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive.
Well, I guess that answers my question.
Is your entire scum read on Mocsta due to that business with his post limit?
That and his early post about giving scum reads to like the only three people who posted. Plus his thread control doesnt seem natural, its like he saw he could do it as scum but wasnt planning on doing it but he did it anyway.
Ill give more when Im back home.
On November 21 2013 01:49 Onegu wrote: Ok I am home and put my son to sleep so Im getting out my notebook rereading everything and will be back with you shortly, also I basicly agree with everything JJD has said so far minus a small bit of the cora stuff, but the rean and mocsta stuff yeah. But he took back his mospcsta scum read :/. Also I didnt read anyone being a douche to you mocsta so just stop already.
On November 21 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote: @MOCSTA 1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd.
You can tell a lot about a player's alignment by looking at what they choose to post about. It doesn't make a lot of sense for town!Onegu to be spending all his posts on Mocsta, even pulling up really old (now somewhat irrelevent) posts from Mocsta and breaking them down, when he has stated strong scumreads on Rean and Corazon, both of which he may actually be able to get lynched today.
Is he even pushing a Mocsta lynch? No. He's not actively pushing for anything at all. He doesn't seem to think Mocsta is scum anymore than he thinks Rean and Cora are scum, so it looks to me like he just wanted to stay away from the Rean and Cora wagons for one reason or another, and in order to still look like he was doing something complained a lot about Mocsta.
It doesn't add up. I think he could be the best lynch today. Need to reread Aquanim, Cora, and Rean. Not sure who I want to lynch most. In the meantime I'd appreciate some other thoughts on Onegu.
Let me put it this way - I see nothing in Onegu's posts which is making me lean town on him. However, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a little while to further understand your point of view.
With regards to Onegu's first post this reads like the kind of post where he's just scanned the thread and picked out interesting tidbits without any overall plan to the post. If he's at the mall he's probably posting from his phone, which I imagine makes constructing an organised, coherent post difficult. I think it's understandable that in this post he's spent more time on Mocsta.
The fact that he hasn't elaborated on Corazon and Rean in the rest of his filter is a scummy kind of thing to do, I agree. However, a fair proportion of his interactions with the thread are due to Mocsta asking him questions and critiquing Onegu's read on him, which would naturally lead to Onegu spending most of his time talking about Mocsta.
(That being said, he doesn't seem to have talked about anyone other than Mocsta really at all after that first post. IF that doesn't change abrubtly when he gets back Onegu starts to look really bad.)
@Sciberbia: How plausible do you think these explanations for Onegu's behaviour are?
My opinion is that they could explain Onegu's play if he's town, but they're sufficiently unlikely that overall my leaning on Onegu is scummy.
@Aquanim You make some valid points. I agree with your conclusion. Those explanations are somewhat plausible, but the explanations from a scum perspective are much more plausible. The scum motivation for his posting is more apparent than the town motivation, so the conclusion is that he's more likely scum.
Also, I don't like this Aquanim lynch at all. I'm actually leaning town on him. His reads on Cora, Rean, and Onegu fall right in line with my thinking, which to me at least is obviously coming from a townie place. It also makes me really uncomfortable the way both Rean and Cora jumped on his wagon just as it was getting started.
So because Rean and Cora jumped on Aqua lynch you want to lynch Onegu? Quite a weird way of defending someone.
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote: ... The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate. ...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.
(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
And this is really bad and makes Aquanim look worse. Rean is scum and this is scummy because someone else in some other game did the same thing as scum. Whoopsie, best reasoning 2013.
If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do. What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".
Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you. If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer. I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish. At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?
This is really really bad. "I have no idea what to do. So Mocsta and sciberbia tell me what to do so i can't possibly go wrong in what i say".
He's not looking into where he wants to. He's asking where other people want him to look. That's fear gentleman. Mafia fears they say something wrong.
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.
If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do. What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".
Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?
@rayn I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.
Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote: @Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.
@LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.
Rean I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).
In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.
##Vote: Rean
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?
He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.
At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.
Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.
Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.
I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?
To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.
TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum
I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
Rayn I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.
If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread. What's your case on Rean again?
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response
My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
4) He has shown little to no original thought
1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1.
You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.
Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.
You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.
As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.
@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?
And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote: @Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.
@LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.
Rean I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).
In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.
##Vote: Rean
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?
He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.
At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.
Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.
Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.
I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?
To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.
TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum
I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
Rayn I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.
If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote: *snip* Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)
B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.
C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote: <To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?
Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.
I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.
The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,
I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep
Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.
(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)
(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game
(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?
+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.
To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.
Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote: I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote: ... @sciberia Put your vote where your mouth is.
but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.
Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.
His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.
Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game. + Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.
As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been: 1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to 2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move 3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do
Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.
They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.
As regards the other two:
JarJarDrinks
- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it. - Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried. - He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.
Conclusion: Likely town.
Onegu
- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously. - Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh. - Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points. - Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.
Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you. If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer. I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish. At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote: ... The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate. ...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.
(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?
Okay let's talk about this.
First quote - He sums up where he is and says why people voted for him (???). Second quote - Repeats my question (which has been answered) to Rean. Calls him out for calling out lurkers (nothing alignment indicative). Asks if Rean thinks scib is still scummy. Third quote - null read on Cora, leaning scum on Rean (ofc), townread on JJD, weird read on Onegu. Then the "please tell me what to say" bullshit Fourth quote - justifying his scumread with what someone else did in some other game.
So, in conclusion, he gives out one townread and one scumread, two null reads. Repeats said arguments, and talks bullshit or gives bad reasons for someone to be scum. Where does he actually scumhunt? Where does he attempt to find out more on anyone? His vote is on a guy he is "leaning scum on", to me that reads it's not even a strong scumread.
So yes, he is pushing his read, but for bad reasons.
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote: I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
So. Damn. wishy-washy. Flips his stance 3 times over 2 lines. And as Aquanim points out (in another good post), why is Rean complaining about Onegu being an 'easy lynch target' if his posting is 'certainly scummy'? Honestly I think there's a good chance they are both scum.
Well that's true and one thing i agree with is that when Aquanim started talking with you and i was on his back Rean suddenly fell in the sidelines.
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.
If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do. What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".
Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?
@rayn I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.
Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote: @Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.
@LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.
Rean I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).
In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.
##Vote: Rean
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?
He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.
At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.
Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.
Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.
I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?
To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.
TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum
I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
Rayn I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.
If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread. What's your case on Rean again?
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response
My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
4) He has shown little to no original thought
1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1.
You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.
Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.
You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.
As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.
@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?
And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote: @Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.
@LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.
Rean I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).
In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.
##Vote: Rean
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?
He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.
At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.
Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.
Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.
I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?
To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.
TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum
I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
Rayn I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.
If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote: *snip* Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)
B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.
C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote: <To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?
Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.
I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.
The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,
I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep
Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.
(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)
(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game
(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?
+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.
To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.
Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote: I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote: ... @sciberia Put your vote where your mouth is.
but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.
Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.
His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.
Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game. + Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.
As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been: 1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to 2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move 3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do
Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.
They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.
As regards the other two:
JarJarDrinks
- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it. - Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried. - He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.
Conclusion: Likely town.
Onegu
- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously. - Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh. - Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points. - Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.
Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you. If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer. I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish. At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote: ... The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate. ...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.
(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?
Okay let's talk about this.
First quote - He sums up where he is and says why people voted for him (???). Second quote - Repeats my question (which has been answered) to Rean. Calls him out for calling out lurkers (nothing alignment indicative). Asks if Rean thinks scib is still scummy. Third quote - null read on Cora, leaning scum on Rean (ofc), townread on JJD, weird read on Onegu. Then the "please tell me what to say" bullshit Fourth quote - justifying his scumread with what someone else did in some other game.
So, in conclusion, he gives out one townread and one scumread, two null reads. Repeats said arguments, and talks bullshit or gives bad reasons for someone to be scum. Where does he actually scumhunt? Where does he attempt to find out more on anyone? His vote is on a guy he is "leaning scum on", to me that reads it's not even a strong scumread.
So yes, he is pushing his read, but for bad reasons.
@rayn So he is pushing his reads. You just don't like them. Now look at Onegu's filter. He has pretty similar reads (rean and cora), but doesn't push them at all. If exactly one of the two is scum which do you think it is? I feel pretty strongly that it would be Onegu.
The thing is Onegu is not here and Aquanim is. Of course Aquanim is talking and Onegu is not. I don't find Aqua's reasoning and contributions quite good. I think he is using bad reasoning in justifying his scumread on Rean, i think he is somewhat repeating other people's questions (which have been already answered), and as i said i don't like him wanting to do what other people tell him to do - that's idiotic.
Onegu hasn't been here for what, 10 hours? He has like 5 posts. You could aswell say "Lonemeow is not pushing his reads he is scum over Aquanim". That's retarded. Tomorrow will tell more about this, mainly when those non-contributors post more.
On a sidenote, Bereft should be here like now. Also where the fuck did Rean suddenly disappear when the heat on him got off?
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.
If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do. What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".
Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?
@rayn I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.
Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote: @Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.
@LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.
Rean I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).
In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.
##Vote: Rean
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?
He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.
At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.
Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.
Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.
I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?
To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.
TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum
I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
Rayn I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.
If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread. What's your case on Rean again?
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response
My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
4) He has shown little to no original thought
1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1.
You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.
Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.
You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.
As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.
@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?
And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote: @Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?
On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.
@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.
This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.
@LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.
Rean I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).
In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.
##Vote: Rean
I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.
How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote: Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.
This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.
Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?
He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.
At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.
Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.
Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.
I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.
I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
@Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?
To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.
TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum
I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
Rayn I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.
If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote: *snip* Corazon I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".
A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)
B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.
C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote: <To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?
Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.
I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.
The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,
I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep
Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.
(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)
(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game
(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?
+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.
To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.
Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote: I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote: ... @sciberia Put your vote where your mouth is.
but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.
Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.
His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.
Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game. + Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.
As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been: 1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to 2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move 3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do
Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.
They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.
As regards the other two:
JarJarDrinks
- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it. - Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried. - He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.
Conclusion: Likely town.
Onegu
- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously. - Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh. - Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points. - Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.
Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you. If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer. I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish. At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote: ... The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate. ...
Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.
(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?
Sorry to weigh in.
In my opinion: The action discussed above is null.
Both town and scum realise they need to continue pushing an agenda whilst under pressure.
It comes down to *HOW* aquanim is pushing his agenda. I haven't made up my mind here, but this question above is what should be asked.
This is basically what i am trying to say, and i have given my opinion on it. Thank you o' wise Mocsta <3
On November 21 2013 12:24 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta Scum agenda: lynch ANYONE but me (or my scumbuddies) Town agenda: pinpoint a scum and lynch him
The easiest way to tell which agenda aquanim is pursuing is by looking at how interested he is in who exactly gets lynched other than him. Due to his posts on Cora, Rean, and Onegu, it looks to me like it is interested in who precisely his counterwagon is, which is indicative of a town mindset.
Now i would not say that. Look again into his conclusions.
Rean why are you contionously saying Onegu is very scummy and likely scum but you won't vote for him in case he is just an easy target to attack to? If someone is likely to be scum you make a case and lynch them. Why is your read wishy-washy as hell in every post you make?
On November 21 2013 12:24 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta Scum agenda: lynch ANYONE but me (or my scumbuddies) Town agenda: pinpoint a scum and lynch him
The easiest way to tell which agenda aquanim is pursuing is by looking at how interested he is in who exactly gets lynched other than him. Due to his posts on Cora, Rean, and Onegu, it looks to me like it is interested in who precisely his counterwagon is, which is indicative of a town mindset.
Now i would not say that. Look again into his conclusions.
Not sure what you're trying to suggest. His conclusion seems to be Rean > Onegu > Cora > others. I don't see anything terribly suspicious about those conclusions. What do you expect him to do? Come up with town reads on all the other lynch candidates? They are lynch candidates for a reason. It only makes sense that he would find them all scummy to some degree. The point is that he has at least looked into them and has clear preferences among them.
Rean:
Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.
Corazon:
Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
Onegu:
Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
Aquanim do you have a feeling sciberbia is trying to convince you into lynching Onegu or what is your interpretation of what he is trying to do when he is talking with you?
sciberbia could you share some insight in why are you so eager to defend Aquanim and why do you think he can't defend himself? In my opinion you should be trying to convince us to lynch Onegu as he seems to be your top lynch target. Instead of doing that you defend aqua - defend aqua - point out Rean's bad post - defend aqua.
The dude can defend himself if he is town, it's not your job. Your job is - if you are town - to tell us why lynching Onegu is the right way to go in case you think he is the best lynch.
atm you are doing anything else but that. Kinda makes me wonder why?
##Unvote ##Vote: Bereft You stated Onegu is your town read. You filter four guys. Three which are your scumreads, and Onegu, your town read. That makes no sense given you have null-reads you should be filtering over your townreads in case you are trying to find scum. You are just following thread sentiment and it makes no sense. In fact you never even filter Aqua and Onegu after promising to do so.
I want to lynch Bereft for the way he prioritizes things. That's fucking scummy. Notice Aqua was one of his three scumreads to filter. Now he has filtered Rean/Cora, has his vote on Rean, and defended Onegu's posts. He hasn't even read all his scumread's filters yet there is already a vote. A big no. Now sleep.
So about evey player in this game is suspicious about Onegu, except for Bereft. sciberbia makes a case on Onegu. Everyone says Onegu is a really good lynch. Bereft comes in and instead of filtering his scumreads he stops at 2/3, and votes for Rean (yes, he never filtered Aqua at all and that is bullshit). Instead of filtering Aqua he filters Onegu, his townread, picks up some random posts and "yes, Onegu is town". Again bullshit.
Then Mocsta defends Onegu on "suicidal behavior". Guess what Onegu did in ##'s game when he replaced in as scum? He did a fucking case on a confirmed townie and marv & Koshi insta-lynched him. After that everyone seems to be having a town read on Onegu. Suddenly also everyone seems to be having a some sort of scumread on me based on bullshit like "rayn didn't answer Mocsta when Mocsta asks are Rean & Aquanim bussing each other". lolololol. 10 fucking hours into the game when there are like 2 votes casted. Why the fuck wouldi care about it at that point? thrawn can't read me for shit or he is scum, leaning on latter.
Bereft is probably scum for his bullshit entrance and over-defensiveness when i called him scum. I dunno, Mocsta is probably just Mocsta and i don't really care about him now (hint thrawn: i never care about 90% what Mocsta says on D1 because as either alignment he can say wtf he wants).
So yeah, i am gonna vote for Onegu or Bereft. Aquanim could be town, but Rean is a mislynch. Go for it if you want but i am gonna lynch thrawn on D2 if you lynch Rean because thrawn is spewing bullshit and he knows better than this.
Vote stands on Bereft, will be swithching to Onegu, not onto anyone else.
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.
I would vote for Aquanim over Rean anyday but i don't think he is scum either. Unless thrawn is town, in which case he should swithc his vote on Aqua/Bereft/Onegu right now because those are the scummiest people in thread.
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Because townies don't have to make shit up. I am not saying it makes him town but it makes him more town than a guy who makes shit up intead of admitting they were wrong.
But i don't really care. I find Rean's defences and actions townie, apparently he was incapable of proving himself to you. Go ahead and vote for him. I can't defend him more than what i said.
Mocsta and thrawn should know better. Well maybe not Mocsta but thrawn who defends people like Hopeless based on when they say " ". I'll make sure i will (or in case i get shot on N1 you will) lynch thrawn on D2 if this Rean lynch happens because i can't fight against it by myself.
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.
Wow.. we are not on the same page.
The difference is Aquanim is not confident but continues to be an open book - allowing you to keep provoking him. Rean on the other hand answers the questions to the point and delivers nothing more.
I know i find the latter more scummy, so should you.
So when everyone has a townread on Aquanim (besides me - from the influential players), mafia!Rean continues to tunnel on Aqua and does not consider any other player worth lynching?
In comparsion Aquanim is open for lynching for anyone who was suspicious for thread sentiment.
Yo Mocsta you need to learn on how to play scum if you think that's a good way to go for mafia!Rean. Also those dudes who play live mafia have way better "on the fly bullshitting capabilities". Also Aquanim says very little in his posts.
But i don't care, i just lynch thrawn on D2 if he let's this lynch happen. I am telling you Rean is town and if thrawn is incapable of seeing that he is most likely scum.
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.
You're entitled to your opinion of my play. I claim you're full of shit and that I don't "lick strong players asses" - I may agree with them sometimes, but only people like you never agree with strong players under any conditions.
Regardless, if this is a comment on my style of play rather than you claiming anything about my alignment it can wait until postgame.
If "Please Moscta and sciberbia ask me anything and i'll give you my best answers" is not licking strong players asses then you don't know the meaning of the phrase in this occasion.
Mocsta stop with that "no other lynch is gonna happen" bullshit. Instead of telling people to vote for someone based on "so we get a lynch trough" you should convince them that the person is scum. You are better than this, wtf are you doing?
##Unvote: ##Vote: Mocsta Now he's just full of shit.
Today you are gonna lynch me or Mocsta. If you lynch me then you lynch Mocsta on D2. Thanks. If you don't lynch me or Mocsta today i will spam the thread with bullshit as long as i live like he is doing atm.
On November 21 2013 23:29 cDgCorazon wrote: I ain't voting for Rean, Moc. I don't think it is a good lynch and I would need to be handed a very convincing argument to do so.
What it comes down to now is whether you are going to support a town circle or not. 7 are needed to vote, and the closest person to 7 is Rean.
There is more information to be gained from a Rean lynch/mislynch than a no-lynch.
Do you honestly think you can sway enough people for who-ever your counter wagon is?
If not, the townie thing to do is secure a Rean lynch - whether you like it or not.
When you say things like, "Corazón has only attacked people who attack him", it makes me less likely to listen to you because you're throwing shit around when you say that. Of course I've only attacked people who have attacked me because EVERYONE has attacked me. Do you not realize this?
I dont think all 11 people were after you. And I dont care if you won't listen to me, because your "thumb stuck in your bum" is making it very difficult to read you. I want to think you are town, but the emotional rouse is such a convenient avenue to hide behind. It should be obvious I am willing to give you a fair go, so if you are town, snapping back at me is NOT going to help *your* situation
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote: How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.
Wild theory #1 (stated previously)
Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town. Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting
Wild Theory #2 Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT. After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team. backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday.
If anyone thinks these posts come from a townie vote for me. Otherwise vote for Mocsta.
7 are needed to vote, and the closest person to 7 is Rean.
There is more information to be gained from a Rean lynch/mislynch than a no-lynch.
Do you honestly think you can say enough people for who-ever your counter wagon is?
If not, the townie thing to do is secure a Rean lynch - whether you like it or not.
On November 21 2013 23:52 Mocsta wrote: You know what Rayn.
I think we should oblige.
##Unvote ##Vote: Rayn
I knew you would claim scum. <3 I don't even care if you lynch me but i suggest everyone looks at this post when i flip!!!
I just proved you wrong. And you are going against what you suggested ~10min ago.
OK, guilty as charged. Apologies, I was confused - I thought you said you wrote a case? I didnt see anything about why this is indicative of a scum mindset.
Your first suggestion is scummy as hell. You are shutting down discussion because people "need to consolidate". The suggestion is also incorrect and that's what i wanted to show you. ##Unvote:
I suggest, Mocsta, ifyou are town you never make those kinda bullshit suggestions in a game where i am playing. I also suggest you don't make bullshit cases based on why someone might have been replaced out of a game and how someone might not have read scum QT or other bullshit. I could make a case on you where i say "WILD THEORY; Mocsta has played so bad as scum lately so he needs to change his playstyle completely to survive even N1. Therefore he is scum hue hue." Do you see why your posts on the last page are terribad? Please stop if you are town.
Now i do not want to lynch Rean. I think he has been genuine and cooperative and stated clearly who he wants to lynch on D1. That's more than 8 other players in this game have done.
I could lynch jampidampi. His reasoning for voting for Aquanim is no longer valid unless he debunks Aqua's defense, which he has not done. When he comes back he doesn't update his read on his top scumread, instead he throws some irrational posts on him.
Jampidampi that's a really bad post and there was no townie motivation behind my last 10 posts (towards anyone else than Mocsta - who i should probably realize is incapable to see the point anyways, my bad) because that's what i was trying to do.
I can't find any reasons why you should have not voted for me unless you know i am town and therefore scum.
Considering not voting for me by the last 10 posts is townie? Really Mocsta everyone should have instantly put their votes on me based purely on policy until i stop or if don't lynch me.
Him "thinking about the situation" makes zero sense.
On November 22 2013 00:28 cDgCorazon wrote: If this game is going to turn into a "who has a bigger dick" competition between Mocsta/Rayn and their supporters, we are going to lose.
Neither of you needed to blow up there. Go take a break and come back in 2-3 hours please.
I don't needa break, i have a clear head. But look at this Corazon. Mocsta was selling people "we can't lynch anyone but Rean you all need to put your votes on him yaddayadda..". There are some people like thrawn who throw out some other arbitary names "i could also lynch this guy but consolidation yadda yadda..".
What happens when this is not the case any more? Suddenly people are not wanting to lynch the people they were okay with lynching any more. Mocsta and thrawn both are saying i am scum with Jampidampi. I have my vote on him. Suddenly Jampidampi is not a good lynch any more. Why? Because rayn is scum with him? rofl. I do this kinda shit once in a while. Suddenly all the thread goes silent. Why? Because Rean lynch was comfortable for scum, now the situation is no more comfortable. If thrawn and Mocsta think rayn is scum with Jampidampi why are they not willing to lynch him now? We are both scum (except that i am not), why not lynch jampi then? Oh i was scum with Rean too, but he's off the table too.
I do this shit often as town, i also stop it quite quick. At least Mocsta should be very aware of this even if he doesn't agree it's wise.
One of the reasons i think Rean is not scum is that Mocsta and thrawn as self-proclaimed masons are driving the discussion in this thread, or have been. There has been no real resistance to Rean's lynch (no, i have not resisted it for real - until now). If Rean is town (and i am like 90% sure of it) i am pretty sure one of Mocsta / thrawn is scum.
sciberbia didn't really try to get Onegu lynched, he diid not try to really convince people into lynching Onegu.
I have not tried to really convince people into lynching other people, i have just said i don't think Rean is scum.
Noone else has not really tried to push any other lynch, besides Rean. Do you guys really think if i was scum and Rean was scum that's what i would do / allow to happen? Mocsta? thrawn? Like really? If i was scum i could make a quite convincing case on anyone in this game if i wanted. And that is a fact. But i won't, because i am not scum.
And i don't think Rean is scum either.
If i failed with my stir up the thread then fine, vote for me. When i flip town look closely into Mocsta & thrawn, because then you can take my word for Rean being town. If you want to lynch Rean, fine. Do it. But when he flips town look closely into Mocsta / thrawn, because one of them is scum. If Rean flips scum i admit i am really bad at playing mafia or mafia has to be Lonemeow & Jampidampi and scum just did have no thread precense. In that case we should still lynch Jampidampi.
So that's my take on things going on here. Make your best shot. If it's me i don't care. But if that's the case remember what i said.
On November 22 2013 00:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Rayn, you don't need to explain to me how you feel. I can read.
We were all happily discussing a potential Rean lynch and all of a sudden, you and Mocsta get in this argument and now we have no chance at consolidation. It just derailed town. How do you think we are going to lynch scum if your egos get in the way?
Why do you think that is the situation at hand?
Cause you and Rayn now want each other dead. And both of those lunches are stupid.
I don't want Mocsta dead. Read my last biggish post please.
On November 22 2013 00:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Rayn, you don't need to explain to me how you feel. I can read.
We were all happily discussing a potential Rean lynch and all of a sudden, you and Mocsta get in this argument and now we have no chance at consolidation. It just derailed town. How do you think we are going to lynch scum if your egos get in the way?
Why do you think that is the situation at hand?
Cause you and Rayn now want each other dead. And both of those lunches are stupid.
I don't want Mocsta dead. Read my last biggish post please.
THEN WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR HIM. Why did you want him dead and then change your mind?
Because of what i just said. I don't know his alignment.
But look at what happened. Everyone was happily "discussing things" (while people were not even really discussing anythig relevant). Does that to you look like town is heading to a scum lynch? When noone is opposing the lynch?
Suddenly, when the things are not so clear any more, where is Aquanim now? Where is Bereft? The were living happily ever after with the thread here but where are they now? "yo i put my vote here on rayn and disappear". Is that a townie mindset? To disappear when there actually is something to discuss - besides "let's all put our votes on Rean and hold hands"?
On November 22 2013 00:54 Mocsta wrote: Its 2am for aquanim , which means its prob lunch time for bereft
OR they could be threading diving.
Grasping here rayn.. majorly.
And you were perfectly fine with Bereft calling me out when i went to bed 6:30 AM? Also why do you oppose Jampidampi lynch? I thought we were scumbuddies?
Your contributions are really weak atm Mocsta. They are all based on some arbitaryscumchat or you are contradicting yourself. You are also too nice overall, and that is worrying me a lot. Given what happened in the last game it's worrying me even more.
If you are a town leader as you have acted like and think i am the best lynch then fucking convince people of it. If you think Rean is the best lynch convince people of it. You will be held accountable for your actions anyways. thrawn acts like a town leader but when shit gets real he takes the easy way out, and that is bullshit, ecpecially considering the dude claims he can read me. Either he has no clue what he is talking about or he is scum.
I want to lynch Jampidampi because i think he is scum and Rean is not. In case you, Mocsta, think i am scum i suggest you join the wagon because if you lynch me you'll see a town flip and then you are in deep shit because you failed to listen to the town leader you are supposed to be good at reading and you did not lynch "his 100% scumbuddy" you were okay with lynching with before. Same can be said about thrawn.
On November 22 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I started playing, that's the explanation.
Funny that.
Town when not playing and scummy when you start playing.
Yeah in every single game i actually play i am considdered ascummy, it's something you should know. When i am obv-town i am usually scum. Something you should know too.
On November 22 2013 01:18 jampidampi wrote: rayn, why are all over everything this game? You enter and call Rean scum, then later shout at us not to lynch him. Earlier you called Aquanim scummy, but you don't want to lynch him. You even said among the lines of "I'm quite sure I'm right on this" regarding the Aqua lynch. Then you suddenly vote Bereft. Then out of the blue you vote Mocsta, claiming that the lynch is between you and him. Then you don't want to lynch Moc but instead want to lynch me, even though you know I take my time with analysing your "plays" (see Nuclear Winter Mafia). Your reads don't flow fluidly, they are way too sudden to change. I can't find a coherent thought process between all these changes, especially the Aqua and Mocsta ones.
Can you somehow explain this?
Aquanim is not gonna get lynched anyways and there are more suspicious people. I never really wanted to lynch Mocsta in case it's not clear enough already.
On November 22 2013 01:18 jampidampi wrote: rayn, why are all over everything this game? You enter and call Rean scum, then later shout at us not to lynch him. Earlier you called Aquanim scummy, but you don't want to lynch him. You even said among the lines of "I'm quite sure I'm right on this" regarding the Aqua lynch. Then you suddenly vote Bereft. Then out of the blue you vote Mocsta, claiming that the lynch is between you and him. Then you don't want to lynch Moc but instead want to lynch me, even though you know I take my time with analysing your "plays" (see Nuclear Winter Mafia). Your reads don't flow fluidly, they are way too sudden to change. I can't find a coherent thought process between all these changes, especially the Aqua and Mocsta ones.
Can you somehow explain this?
Aquanim is not gonna get lynched anyways and there are more suspicious people. I never really wanted to lynch Mocsta in case it's not clear enough already.
I guess I should be more clear about the Aqua thing: At the time you had your vote on him you were confident that he was scum, but with seeminly nothing changin you suddenly began to regard him as "maybe town". What made you change your mind?
Nothing besides the fact that he was here discussing things with people and didn't run and hide. I still find his answers weak and somewhat constructed. But Bereft and Onegu were more scummy and sciberbia was weirdly just defending Aquanim and not trying to convince people into lynching Onegu. Bereft's comeback was absolute crap, weak, and terribad. He didn't filter Aquanim while promising to do so, and i do not think he would have not done that in case they were both scum.
You have yet to update your read on Aquanim. You don't seem to think i am scum so what's the point wasting time asking me questions if you think Aquanim is scum? You are not scumhunting, you are making yourself looking better in case i get lynched - as i said before.
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: ...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
Why the contradiction?
This is the best case in this game.
Because this is terrible rayn, remember how I was talkimg about if rayn believes in his cases or not makes him scum or town. Yeah there is no way rayn believes this. After in WC I didnt vote my top scumread as town, he knows town do this, yes oir reasons are different but aquas reason is believeable as it was less than 12 hours into day 1.
Yeah I commented on how terrible the case was too. Let alone the best case in the game. ANd furthermore, how good of a case can it be if he now doesn't think aqua is scum anymore.
You are misrepresenting me. I said that because i wanted Aquanim to respond to me regarding that. Onegu is also misrepresenting me. He claims to be good at reading me but he fails to see my point regarding my statement.
My point on that is not what i said there. It is what Aquanim answered me. My original argument was: "You are contradicting yourself because you are not voting for your top scumread while earlier you said you agree with doing so always"
First he gave a answer where he said this: "I wanted to gain reaction from Rean, that's why i voted for him instead of Corazon"
Then i say this: "That's weak, i never asked why you voted for Rean, you didn't vote for your top scumread."
Then he changes his story into: "But i never really agreed with voting my top scumread but instead i agreed with bla bla bla..." He is giving different answers to the same question when it's certainly clear to him what i am arguing about. He changes his answer when the first one does not please the accuser.
I could possibly vote for Aquanim aswell, depending on what Onegu says when he's caught up.
Apparently for some strange reason people do not seem to think Bereft is scummy when all he has done is 3 filter dives, one of which was not his scumread who he read over his scumread. lol.
JAmpidampi could you give your top 3 scumreads with reasonings please?
That's the point Mocsta. It was supposed to not be. And it lasted a whole 15 minutes. And it has achieved what it was supposed to. A fuckton of reactions. Yours is not the most dandiest.
So Mocsta and Bereft give me a scum motivation to martyr? You guys are so keen on talking about scum motivations here yet you can give absolutely none for my actions. Also Bereft just claimed scum.
Both Mocsta and Bereft are saying lynching me is a mislynch. I will not oppose lynching me, just make sure to lynch those people who claimed scum after that.
This proves Mocsta and Bereft are scum. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade. I'll make a case on the third one near deadline. I gotta go move my little brother now. cya later.
Mocsta and Bereft [u]literally claimed scum. There is no question about it. As they are saying they do not believe my actions a wwhile ago were because of what i explained later on, they can't retract from their scumclaims - because "that's not what townies do". This is pretty clear. There is no way they were gauging reactions or something because my actions couldn't be interpreted in any other light but scummy. There is no way for them to bullshit themselves out of this one.
Therefore you should lynch me. When i flip town it is 100% confirmed that Mocsta and Bereft both claimed scum.[/b]
On November 22 2013 02:31 Bereft wrote: I don't see how mocsta's question is a scum claim. he's giving you the opportunity to get some benefit of the doubt. which is pretty generous IMO.
He's trying to say that Mocs use of the word before means that Moc is saying that if rayn is lynched to day it will be a mislynch.
It's a total misrepresentation of what Moc is saying.
Like I could ask you "Have you ever been skydiving before?" even if we aren't currently skydiving.
At the time of the comment Mocsta was dead set on lynching me, had his vote on me and wouldn't listen to any other argument. So the " even if we aren't currently skydiving" is a laughable misrepresentation from JarJar.
Onegu i will, after sauna. In ~1h. Before i go there i got like ~10min so i can only post here.
I actually wanna get lynched and i am willing to lynch myself. I know i am right on some things and then everyone can be sure of those reads. I don't give a crap if thrawn yells me anything because i also wanna prove him wrong as he is "master or reading rayn". So yeah, i am effectively most likely lynching myself. I don't care what people think but people who are able to think by themselves will not vote for me. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Hey Onegu, could you look at JarJar. Look at how he follows up his case on Rean. What do you see? Also see how he comments on other people who are up for lynch and compare that to how he is pushing Rean and how he interacts with other people. Can you tell me what's your opinion on that?
Quick version: - far too conservative and "nice", even towards me, throughout the game - puts on tunnel glasses when i stir up the thread (more on this later) - will not consider any motives but scum-motives to my actions which lasted ~15min (even after i explain myself) - should know better that it does not make me scum - scumslips (besides Bereft - who is also scum) - after that, when i call him out for it, look at his posts. rofl. suddenly he is "willing to reconsider". suddenly Rean is town while earlier asked everyone to consolidate on him. does a meta-search on Rean at that point, why no before? rofl. that's fucking ridiculous. - suddenly has "calmed down and is willing to discuss things with me" when it looks like i am ACTUALLY lynching myself.
Do you know how fucking terrible Mocsta will look when i get lynched? I do. Because i am making a full case still. I am also making a full case on Bereft and JarJar. thrawn could be scum too (in case JarJar is just really dumb). He's just pushing people into thinking "don't talk to rayn, just vote for him" and at the same time saying things he knows i can't stand. But it's okay, i will not take the bait. The case will come.
Also on Mocsta, Onegu's gutreads are actually really really good. I trust him on this, also because i am really sure he is town because he can't make a coherent case but still has strong reads. That's town Onegu.
I voted for someone else because Corazon asked me to and he seems desperate about the situation. I like that and i wanted to obey his wish because of that.
thrawn if you are town i ask you the following: (1) What's your current read on Jampidampi? (2) Pretend for a second i am not in the game (what i mean is ignore the me <-> others shitstorm), who are your top 2 scumreads and why?
On November 22 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think you're scum because of your hard-defending of Rean. I can't see a town motive for you to go apeshit about how we're mislynching him. You just can't be that sure about someone that you thought was scum @ one point. I think he's your scumbuddy and you're doing everything you can to keep him out of the noose.
First of all that's not what your posts imply. You did not vote for me for defending Rean. You voted me for something else. If you think i am scum because of defending him that can't possibly be true if Rean is not scum. Therefore you should be voting for Rean and not me.
Also if you seriously think i would lynch myself over Rean (if we were scumbuddies) you are out of your mind. Having played with me in a game where i was scum and did whatever i wanted in thread i just can't believe that.
Second of all look at how "apeshit" i go when i think a townie is getting lynched. I present you, the filter of raynpelikoneet in Desert mini mafia end of D1. (you can probably look for yourself, i'm not doing all the work for you scumbag).
On November 22 2013 05:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you think i am scum because of defending him that can't possibly be true if Rean is not scum. Therefore you should be voting for Rean and not me.
/dunked
lol. So I should be voting for Rean even though my vote wouid be totally wasted there instead of for you who is also a scumread of mine?
No, you just said i am scum because i am defending my scumbuddy Rean. That's your reason for thinking i am scum. You just said so. That's where your thought process and actions contradicts. You should be voting for Rean, not me. Because you don't have a scumread on me if Rean is not scum, which you possibly can't know unless you flip him (also you have a "real" scumread on him - your scumread on me is connection based, by your own words).
Therefore you are scum. There are more reasons but this is the most damning and no townie ever thinks like this.
On November 22 2013 06:26 cDgCorazon wrote: Your logic is bad ≠ you are scum You should know better, Rayn
nah Cora.
What JarJar is doing is that he has zero reasons to think i am scum other than "Rean is scum". This is not about logic. This is about thought process. You do not vote for someone because "they are defending a scumbuddy". You flip the scum and THEN say they WERE defending a scumbuddy.
Look at the quote JarJar is trying to bring up. That's a fucking DAY after i started "defending" Rean. He does not bring anything up about my defense, and how my defense does not make sense. He does not bring my scummy behavior regarding Rean up until NOW, when i "martyred". Originally that was his reasoning for voting for me, because he did not say anything else.
I am still going to make the case, but here are the bullet points:
How JJD treats his scumread Rean. He never interacts with him
He never tries to convince anyone Rean is scum
He talks about anything but why Rean is scum, all he says is "all other cases are crap"
In fact he talks more about Corazon between voting for Rean - voting for me
He does not tell anyone why his case is better than others
He is not scumhunting, he is just happily sitting on his vote, and when he can make a better vote he does it
Seriously, my case is going to include all of JJD's filter, just that you see how he does not give a fuck about lynching scum. I hope you read it because i know people are usually too lazy to even read filters and usually i don't give a fuck but if you are gonna lynch me then i suppose i need to give a fuck so you can look at my post after that.
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me.
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>
Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff.
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not?
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
@ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads.
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote: (A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia (B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A) (C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.
And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him?
##Vote: Rean
The case is okay. I admit that. But what happens then? He makes 8 posts that have nothing to do with Rean. In fact those posts are talking about Corazon's statement about sciberbia. Why? His job is not to defend Corazon, his job is to make sure the town lynches scum. He is not doing that. Last post is to say "i'll look into Aqua" (another candidate at that time).
This is the point when i start questioning Rean because JJD is somehow incapable of doing so. I question him about his sciberbia read. JJD chimes in with:
On November 21 2013 03:22 Rean wrote: Neither before nor after he did anything about it. That's why I said it feels odd...but as I've said twice already, I want to see his response to this. Maybe you're right and he just wanted his opinion to be known. We'll know once he gets in here.
Seems like a wierd statement.
What will we know exactly once he gets in here? Whether he really thinks you're scummy or whether he was lying about it?
I am already talking about that, this is repeating what i say, "yeah i agree with rayn". He has not done his work in questioning Rean, his top read, he has talked about entirely something else the whole fucking time. He does not give a shit about the lynch.
Then he reads Aqua, comment is "i don't find him scummy at all". When questioned about it "he thinks Rean is scummy for same reasons i do". Connection bullshit.
Then he makes another 7 posts. About what? Accusing Corazon of being scum!! But his vote is on Rean. rofl. At that time i question Rean about JJD's case and he has no intention to talk about his top scumread his vote is on. Instead he finds it more productive to accuse Corazon of being scum. Right.
When i come to a conclusion Rean is most likely town and switch my vote, what does JJD do: + Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: ...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
Why the contradiction?
This is the best case in this game.
Really, cause I think this case sucks.
@ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts.
But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread.
He defends Aquanim for no reason. I point out a contradiction in what Aquanim says and how he acts. JJD defends Aqua and says "here, Rean did this like same stuff, but what Rean did is worse". Okay. But he has never updated that thought, i asked Rean about it and Rean explained. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED! JJD had nothing to say about it. Apparently he thinks his scumread is talking out of his ass but he says nothing about it. Seems legit? roflskates.
Then he makes some random posts about sciberbia and asks Mocsta if Mocsta thinks Rean is the best lynch. Then he says this:
On November 21 2013 13:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: Hey guys, can't post much tonight. Will have a bunch to say tomorrow. Still think Rean is the best lynch and I really hate all the alternate wagons.
I'd also be down w/ killing a lurker. First instinct tells me jampi is the best lurker lynch but I'll read up more tomorrow.
"Rean is the best lynch but i also agree with this."
Then Rean gets angry because he has answered all the accusations. JJD says "you can't say this because you were not doing that". It takes four posts, and then JJD concedes "okay maybe you meant that".
I guess I forgot about that. You did give a reason. It just seems like a strange thing to say about someone you're reading as scum. If it's a legitimate point then he's not scum.
<3 you man. Pretty much my reads exactly. Though I'd probably move Scib and Onegu up to the green group. Rayn has fallen way down for me from his early game. If I was gonna remove anyone from the reds, Rayne would probably take their place.
The only thing troubling, and I think you touched on this earlier, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a Rean/Cora scumteam. Would need to reread a bunch but I think that can be worried about after the flip.
"rayn is scummy now because he defended Rean (which you never said was scummy before while i have been defending him for like 24h)".
Connection case that is shit. He gives me a "scumread" (but really does not) for no reason. He has never said before this i defended Rean for wrong reasons. He has never interacted with me. He has never pointed out how my defense was bad. Hell he has not even addressed me - Rean interactions IN THE WHOLE GAME, other than one - when it suited his agenda of calling Rean scum. But NOW it's just bad.
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote: How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.
Notice this is Jampidampi questioning me. "HEY YEAH, EXPLAIN THAT BECAUSE I AM TOO SCARED TO QUESTION YOU MYSELF". This is what JJD is doing a lot of this game; "Yeah good question, explain that person X". Sheep.
I COULD see this coming from a townie if they were tunneled and just yelling people "Rean is scum" and putting all effort into making people vote for Rean. But JJD is not doing that. He is talking about everything else but Rean.
Then he votes for me. For martyring. Then he backpedals from the reasoning when i point out why he is scum. Just read these posts:
On November 21 2013 23:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: If anyone thinks these posts come from a townie vote for me. Otherwise vote for Mocsta.
##Unvote ##Vote: Rayn
Clearly because of "martyring".
On November 22 2013 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote: I don't like anty lynch aside from Rayn or Rean here. Rayn made his move and got all the votes off Rean. If we switch to someone else, we're letting him dictate the vote. If we move off Rayne, they need to go back to Rean.
On November 22 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think you're scum because of your hard-defending of Rean. I can't see a town motive for you to go apeshit about how we're mislynching him. You just can't be that sure about someone that you thought was scum @ one point. I think he's your scumbuddy and you're doing everything you can to keep him out of the noose.
On November 22 2013 05:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you think i am scum because of defending him that can't possibly be true if Rean is not scum. Therefore you should be voting for Rean and not me.
/dunked
lol. So I should be voting for Rean even though my vote wouid be totally wasted there instead of for you who is also a scumread of mine?
Especially read the last two quotes. Also read my bullet point post (that's like table of contents).
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me.
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>
Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff.
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not?
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
@ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads.
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote: (A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia (B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A) (C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.
And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him?
On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote: Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add:
On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote: Forgot this:
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments.
i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed.
if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read.
##Vote: Rean
How many fucking posts will I have to answer where people make statements WITHOUT READING THE FUCKING POST THEY'RE QUOTING. I, in exact words say I'm not trying to defend Cora and you see that as admitting to defending him? I was pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic because I didn't want him to use poor arguments that Cora could easily deflect. Is this wrong in your eyes? And your "it's not like he says", both things are the fucking same just differently worded.
You can say you weren't trying to defend cora. But you were. Moc made an argument and you said it was flawed. There's no other way to interpret that.
And you didn't even point out what you didn't like about mocstas case. WHy did you think that Moc was falling into the trap? How could cora have easily deflected his argument? By saying "Your logic is flawed because you think I'm scum." ?
On November 21 2013 13:47 JarJarDrinks wrote: Not sure if my point came across there.
what I'm saying is, you said that you were "pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic".
But saying that Moc is falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap is NOT a flaw in logic. It could explain why Moc was using faulty logic. But it's not a mistake in logic itself.
On November 21 2013 13:47 JarJarDrinks wrote: Not sure if my point came across there.
what I'm saying is, you said that you were "pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic".
But saying that Moc is falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap is NOT a flaw in logic. It could explain why Moc was using faulty logic. But it's not a mistake in logic itself.
I keep coming up w/ better ways to phrase what I'm asking. My real question is this:
Why when you read Mocs case did you think that he might be falling into that trap? How come you didn't read it and think "that makes sense", especially since you had a scumread on cora?
On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote: Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add:
On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote: Forgot this:
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments.
i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed.
if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read.
##Vote: Rean
How many fucking posts will I have to answer where people make statements WITHOUT READING THE FUCKING POST THEY'RE QUOTING. I, in exact words say I'm not trying to defend Cora and you see that as admitting to defending him? I was pointing out a mistake in Mocsta's logic because I didn't want him to use poor arguments that Cora could easily deflect. Is this wrong in your eyes? And your "it's not like he says", both things are the fucking same just differently worded.
You can say you weren't trying to defend cora. But you were. Moc made an argument and you said it was flawed. There's no other way to interpret that.
And you didn't even point out what you didn't like about mocstas case. WHy did you think that Moc was falling into the trap? How could cora have easily deflected his argument? By saying "Your logic is flawed because you think I'm scum." ?
It's not defending him, it's making sure Cora can't defend himself as easily by making sure the arguments are solid.
As for your second point, when you quoted the post where "I defend Cora", did you happen to notice that the reason for my comment on Mocsta's post was in the same damn post right below what you quoted? With further explanation in the next post when Mocsta asks me about it?
OK right, this sentence:
"seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red."
I guess I forgot about that. You did give a reason. It just seems like a strange thing to say about someone you're reading as scum. If it's a legitimate point then he's not scum.
On November 21 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote: Jampi, what do you think of Rean?
Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua.
So I take that to mean that if it's clear that aqua isn't gonna get lynched then you'd be happy to move your vote to Rean so we can get a majority?
Yeah, as you put it, it's pretty hilarious. 7/50 posts of yours are towards scumhunting <3 It's pretty low, considering you said "every other case is shit".
Also ALL THESE POSTS BESIDES ONE ARE FROM EARLY ON IN THE GAME! you never bring up anything i talk about Rean. Yet you magically have a fucking scum-scum read between us.
Tell me, you scum!JJD. Which of our interactions are scum-scum and why?
I suggest you start contributing Aquanim. Because you can't be 100% sure i am scum. And if you don't, after i flip people see you took the easy way out. Tell me, why am i scum?
On November 22 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I started playing, that's the explanation.
Funny that.
Town when not playing and scummy when you start playing.
Yeah in every single game i actually play i am considdered ascummy, it's something you should know. When i am obv-town i am usually scum. Something you should know too.
Rayn, with every post you write I only want to lynch you more. I'm at work, but if anyone other than yourself wants to pick my brain or discuss, I'll do my best to oblige. you are completely crumbling and I think you've called nearly every single person in this thread scummy and I have no desire to engage with you as (a) I have 0 tolerance for your attitude and (b) you're doing a perfectly fine job shooting yourself in the foot without any of my prodding. its not my job to convince you you are scum. its my job to get a majority mislynch right now.
Cora how do you interpret rayn's behavior? do you read it purely as an ego trip? what do you think of the fact that first he claims jampi not voting for him is scummy, then follows it up with the argument that if onegu votes for him, then onegu is scummy? why do you think its more beneficial to keep a toxic player around who gives the fake intention of martyring (without actually intending to be a martyr) vs an analytical level headed player who's at least giving the impression of being as transparent as possible?
Everything else is in my filter about them. Mocsta could be town. Then thrawn, that might actually take more than 5min because it's not this easy of a case.
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"? How does that make me scum?
Do you agree that you don't give a fuck about who we lynch as long as it's not Rean, or are you merely saying it for the sake of the argument?
I just made a case on JJD. wtf are you talking about? Do you even read the thread. Of course i fucking care about who we lynch. I just don't want to lynch town.
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"? How does that make me scum?
do you need it spelled out for you? why do you care so much about potentially mislynching Rean, but you don't have ANY qualms about lynching anyone else in the game? you DO realize it's not 2 town vs. 10 mafia, right? who's your strongest town read after Rean? Onegu? and how about after that?
also, it's pretty obvious so I don't know why it begs repeating, but it's the job of every responsible townie to not throw away their vote and get a majority lynch on a scum read right now. scib, I'm looking at you.
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT MY TOWNREADS? WHAT'S THIS POST ABOUT? I just made a post on my top lynch target, and you ask me about fucking townreads. Well here you go.
Onegu is town Rean is town Lonemeow/Holyflare is town Jampidampi is town Corazon is town sciberbia is most likely town Aquanim is most likely town
On November 22 2013 08:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: And that means thrawn is scum.
I was contemplating this last night too. For me its the dwindling activity - will have to push him for more.
All he does is shit on me. And in the same sentence he tell people to not talk about me If you are town i can guarantee thrawn is scum. But, plz, we need to lynch JJD. Mocsta, you know me, i do dumb (looking) stuff as town. But i have reasons for it. I have given my reasons. All these people i have never played before do not understand it. Look at Jampidampi, look at Onegu. They know my shit. They are not votingfor me. Why? They know what i do is not scumlike. Fuck jampidampi's behavior when i went "batshit crazy" on him was so 100% town. He knows NWM. He knows me and thinks critically.
Apparenty you at least attempted to do so. haha.
For a second think about it. If you can't understand it then okay, i fucked up. Then you vote for me. That's not the end of the world and i still have my reads to offer. But JJD - i tell you - he is scum. He is so very scum i suggest you read my case on him.
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"? How does that make me scum?
Oh, and in reference to this post. I would consider these typical behaviours:
A townie looks at a point against them and says "That doesn't make me scum". A good townie looks at a point against them and says "That doesn't make me scum, and here's why I did it". A scumster looks at a point against them and asks "How does that prove I'm scum?"
This post by Rayn is definitely in the third bucket.
Yeah except that i actually do give a fuck about who do we lynch. Your arguments are "rayn is scum because he defended Rean". You're dumb. Most likely not scum but really dumb.
What i did was for a reason. For a reason i explained already. Thread was too "happy". Everyone was "Rean is scum" and i can tell you he is not scum.
What i expected in votes was this: - Jampidampi does not vote for me - Onegu does not vote for me - thrawn does not vote for me - you do not vote for me
Any other people i don't care. All people except thrawn has followed up to their expectations (to some extent you too). JJD talked bullshit. So did Bereft. So did thrawn.
If you are town let's kill JJD. He is scum, so is Bereft but i don't care atm. If i misread you or if i misthought people's intelligence then vote for me.
I tell you, JJD is red, if he flips green, you can lynch me on D2. If i flip red then lynch Rean as people seem to think i am scum because he is but are voting for me (rofl).
Lynch JJD. If he is town you can lynch me on D2, i don't oppose it.
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"? How does that make me scum?
do you need it spelled out for you? why do you care so much about potentially mislynching Rean, but you don't have ANY qualms about lynching anyone else in the game? you DO realize it's not 2 town vs. 10 mafia, right? who's your strongest town read after Rean? Onegu? and how about after that?
also, it's pretty obvious so I don't know why it begs repeating, but it's the job of every responsible townie to not throw away their vote and get a majority lynch on a scum read right now. scib, I'm looking at you.
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT MY TOWNREADS? WHAT'S THIS POST ABOUT? I just made a post on my top lynch target, and you ask me about fucking townreads. Well here you go.
Onegu is town Rean is town Lonemeow/Holyflare is town Jampidampi is town Corazon is town sciberbia is most likely town Aquanim is most likely town
there.
because you've just about claimed everyone here is scum so your scum reads are a useless metric. your reads change every five minutes based on convenience anyways and I'm going to nail you to the fucking wall with them once I get home.
No they don't. They change after i interact with people and based on what they say. Unlike yours. <3
So what, are you all waiting for Mocsta before saying anything? Cowards. Give your opinions. Aquanim was okay regarding that already.
Holyflare how long does it take you to catch up? I see you posting in other game. Could you focus on this one please, as the lynch there is a day later?
On November 22 2013 09:10 thrawn2112 wrote: Rayn your turn. I want to know how you went from declaring D1 to be you vs mocsta to what looks like a current town read on him. And talk about rean, jampi... maybe JarJar some more because I do think he's scummy but I'm not quite convinced.
Look. I am really sure bot Rean and Jampidampi are town. Rean i have given my reasons on. Jampidampi because of his stance on me. Look how i went batshit crazy on him He stayed calm, he did not take the easy way out of saying "yeah rayn is scum, fuck you martyr shitting up the thread". Instead he said "i know what you did in NWM, you do this stuff, why am i scum according to you?". That was so really townie.
He had Rean and me as possibilities to go for, with "legit" reasoning. He did not take it. He did not call me retard for calling him out, he did say "i think this is the case, and i think this is the best lynch we have". He stands by his scumread. That's a man!
Please could you read my case on JarJar, and my bullet points against him. Those are really good.
On November 22 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think you're scum because of your hard-defending of Rean. I can't see a town motive for you to go apeshit about how we're mislynching him. You just can't be that sure about someone that you thought was scum @ one point. I think he's your scumbuddy and you're doing everything you can to keep him out of the noose.
I disagree.
If rayn was town *AND* was certain Rean was town, he would act like this.
My problem is, I cant follow how Rayn suddenly went from querying every punctuation of Rean to giving him town love.
Rean was genuine and not afraid to say what he thought. He was also willing to admit he made a mistake instead of making up shit as i have said. I read that as townie, as i read his frustration on things he feels like he has explained when people don't get it (i know how fucking irritating it is).
On November 22 2013 09:10 thrawn2112 wrote: I want to know how you went from declaring D1 to be you vs mocsta to what looks like a current town read on him.
answer this
I think i have answered this already. But here. I wanted to proveoke out a genuine reaction from Mocsta, because i feel like he has not been genuine. As i said, he has been "there there children, do not fight" kinda attitude that strikes me very odd. I dunno if it's scum or town mindset he is working with, and i can't read him when he acts like this. So i decided to kinda "YOLO, let's see what you do here".
I still don't know what to think of him, but i am leaning on town because he COULD have went to basic Mocsta and just lynched me. If i am wrong about his scumslip, he is cool. That's my read.
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"? How does that make me scum?
do you need it spelled out for you? why do you care so much about potentially mislynching Rean, but you don't have ANY qualms about lynching anyone else in the game? you DO realize it's not 2 town vs. 10 mafia, right? who's your strongest town read after Rean? Onegu? and how about after that?
also, it's pretty obvious so I don't know why it begs repeating, but it's the job of every responsible townie to not throw away their vote and get a majority lynch on a scum read right now. scib, I'm looking at you.
This is a really good post at a good time interval.
The second part is prototypical town agenda, i suppose null.
But the top part is good. Whilst others have conveyed rayn is voting every dog, cat and horse. This was a really effective way to communicate the message.
its not 2 town vs 10 mafia indeed.
wow wow... hold your horses. At that time i am NOT wanting to "lynch anyone". I have a big fucking case on JJD. Mocsta..?
On November 22 2013 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look. I am really sure bot Rean and Jampidampi are town. Rean i have given my reasons on. Jampidampi because of his stance on me. Look how i went batshit crazy on him He stayed calm, he did not take the easy way out of saying "yeah rayn is scum, fuck you martyr shitting up the thread". Instead he said "i know what you did in NWM, you do this stuff, why am i scum according to you?". That was so really townie.
WHAT??? That was the exact reason you gave him a scumread earlier. You basically said that he was scum because he should be voting for you for shitting up the thread.
On November 22 2013 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Jampidampi that's a really bad post and there was no townie motivation behind my last 10 posts (towards anyone else than Mocsta - who i should probably realize is incapable to see the point anyways, my bad) because that's what i was trying to do.
I can't find any reasons why you should have not voted for me unless you know i am town and therefore scum.
Yeah you have no idea how i play. But your vote is on me and you are scum so idgaf.
i am banking the game on you now. read my posts. please read my posts. please please please. if i am wrong on this you can laugh at me all day long but in mocsta,bereft,JJD there are at least 2 scum. 100% rayn guarantee.
@everyone in the thread right now explain the scum motivation for rayn throwing a bunch of shit and even voting himself just as it looked like Rean was going to be lynched. Also, explain ANYTHING you have seen in Onegu's play that makes you think he is town.)
WTFWTFWTF?!??!?!?!?!?*
What........... the ................. fuck.............!?! ?!?!??
On November 22 2013 09:54 thrawn2112 wrote: Rayn I still have no idea what your reads are (the reason for this is that you do not give good enough explanations and sometimes don't give any explanations when your reads change) and why they change so quickly... I liked bereft's interpretation, that you are just changing reads so that whoever is calling you scum looks bad, and trying to place nice whenever someone changes their read on you in the scummy to townie direction.
This is the exact same issue I had with your play when you first entered the game... it looked like you quickly changing your read on me in order to tell me what I want to hear.
I explained my reads. JJD is scum, so are Mocsta and Bereft. I don't care. I really don't. Read my posts / scum QT from ## game. I was not lying.
I just don't care to explain myself better, i play for end game credits. idgaf if i get lynched. Mocsta should see i am town. He doesn't, i was unsure of him. After flip i am not. Others (JJD/Bereft) are 100% scum.
Also do not EVER let people push lynches on people who defended me. Like Cora, Onegu, scib. That's bullshit. They are right, they know what they are talking about. NEVER LET MOCSTA LYNCH THOSE PPL BASED ON "YOU KNEW RAYN WAS TOWN" WHICH HE IS GONNA TRY!
On November 22 2013 09:59 Holyflare wrote: failed f5, anyway I will not be lynching rayn today
still waiting on a productive post from you
nono. he is town. while his meta he has suggested on 2 last games is not valid, he has a clue what i do and not do as scum. i tell you holyflare is totally town.
sciberbia look closely into Aquanim. He's saying fucked up stuff. cross-investigate his posts and earlier obs QT's because i feel like he is talking out of his ass. I don't like it.
On November 22 2013 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: sciberbia look closely into Aquanim. He's saying fucked up stuff. cross-investigate his posts and earlier obs QT's because i feel like he is talking out of his ass. I don't like it.
Oh really, now you want to come for me? In what way am I "talking out of my ass". Don't farm this job out to Sciberbia, do it yourself.
I don't need to. You are lynching me and i am gonna flip scum remember? So i am obviously lying.
I am giving him a job he should do when i flip town. If he does not do that (or if anyone else is not gonna do that) he is lazy or scum. Because you are full of shit with your meta. ^^
On November 22 2013 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: sciberbia look closely into Aquanim. He's saying fucked up stuff. cross-investigate his posts and earlier obs QT's because i feel like he is talking out of his ass. I don't like it.
Oh really, now you want to come for me? In what way am I "talking out of my ass". Don't farm this job out to Sciberbia, do it yourself.
I don't need to. You are lynching me and i am gonna flip scum remember? So i am obviously lying.
Now see, if you were town you'd actually go to some effort to try to convince people I was scum, for the future if nothing else. Even if you did get lynched today you'd be contributing to pushing what you think is a scum lynch on another day.
But no, you just offer a "Rayn guarantee". Which given your history is worth absolutely nothing.
thrawn and scib, i will not vote for cora, he is town. I will only vote for Mocsta, Bereft, JJD, Aqua. The scum lies there. I might even draw a picture close to deadline ^^
Write a wall of text post and give your read on every single player. I'm looking for in depth explanations that show your thought process at work. If not every player at least give all your scumreads and any town reads you might feel comfortable posting.
Aquanim is annoying. He wants me to talk about past games and how i did succeed in them as town. Not a townie midset, purposely trying to make me mad. If Koshi was in this game that dude would get lynched right away!
Write a wall of text post and give your read on every single player. I'm looking for in depth explanations that show your thought process at work. If not every player at least give all your scumreads and any town reads you might feel comfortable posting.
tbh i have already done that.
It's hard to make sense of anything you say because it seems to change on a whim based on thread sentiment. I want a post consolidating all your current thoughts about this game because it will be way easier to read you compared to having to sort through your filter. The problem is that today you have been changing your reads so quickly that you haven't even had to justify them because as a result of how fast they change and as a result, your thought process is impossible to follow.
If you are town and want to save a townie from being lynched you will do this.
1.) Rean - town, read my filter. 2.) thrawn2112 - most likely town, willing to listen 3.) JarJarDrinks - scum, kill with fire. case. 4.) cDgCorazon - town, frustrated for me - Mocsta.seems genuine 5.) Bereft - scum. talks bullshit. scumslips. kill with fire 7.) Mocsta- scum - read what i said about him. i thought he would know better, nah, scum for what i said 8.) Aquanim - annoying (spoiler not for children) + Show Spoiler +
.... i wrote a lot of bad words here. ugh.. annoying.
9.) Onegu - town, has good gut reads. cool dude! 10.) Holyflare - town for knowing what he's talking about. 11.) sciberbia 12.) jampidampi
Just kill Mocsta, Bereft and JJD. If the game goes on kill Aquanim (i am gonna write bad words like i already did - but after game - i was able to hold myself back as i don't wanna get banned).
can someone tell Aquanim to not post if he does not have anything constructive to say because i am feeling like i am talking to alakaslam and that's not good.. and will not last.
If you want me to have a ban then it's okay though..
From now on i will stop posting in my town games. Guess it's a towntell if you do not post at fucking all. When you do post you get called scum for because you were not here for 20minutes when other people decided to post. That really fucking weak and lame because i never do lie about not being able to post.
So gotta downgrade my townplay even more. I could have solved Thug life probably much earlier but i downgraded my townplay there. I hate losing, especially as mafia because it's not the point of "are you right or not".
I gotta say Vayne, i feel you, especially about the fact you say you don't care about if your target gets lynched or not, but the fact if you are right or wrong on your reads. I like that approach and from now on expect that from me. Just because this is bullshit. My meta gift to you. ^_^
all accurate, except for the first paragraph, obviously. ^^
On November 22 2013 10:56 thrawn2112 wrote: ##vote: raynpelikoneet
what the hell are you doing? You can't go from NOBODY VOTE RAYN HE IS DEFINITELY TOWN to then lynching him again this is ridiculous
And the point is not even that i am not going to scumhunt. I am. I gave my top 3 scumreads. I just don't give a fuck if i get lynched or not as i used to. I care about asking the mods if my reads were right or wrong (confirming them). If i can't achieve that by lynching them, so what.
But the point stands. My townreads are not gonna get lynched when i am town. Period.
On November 22 2013 10:59 Aquanim wrote: If Rayn's town he should be doing something productive and pushing a scumread, regardless of what other people think of him.
If Rayn's scum, once Thrawn starts to waver I can well imagine him being tempted to just play dead, do nothing more useful, troll around and hope he gets away with it on the grounds that trolling around is consistent with his town meta. And that's what I'm seeing here. + Show Spoiler +
An aside - if trolling around when you're the main lynch wagon is consistent with your town meta you're playing Mafia horribly, horribly wrong. But anyway.
On November 22 2013 11:04 Aquanim wrote: Oh and if Rayn's decided to make his town meta "I don't push lynches any more, I just get satisfaction out of being right on one of the dozen scumreads I shouted about for five minutes at some point"?
I'm willing to lynch him for that until he realises that's not acceptable.
Like you have pushed any lynches at all Mr. "PLZ MOCSTA AND SCIBERBIA TELL ME WHAT TO DO BOO HOO"
On November 22 2013 11:11 thrawn2112 wrote: RAYN! Do you want to live? I am offering you the same olive branch you have repeatedly refused to accept. Post a list of your read on every player, at least a paragraph each should do.
I did already? And now i am voting for my townread because guess what? i did a 180 on him because of his bullshit statement.
On November 22 2013 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look. I am really sure bot Rean and Jampidampi are town. Rean i have given my reasons on. Jampidampi because of his stance on me. Look how i went batshit crazy on him He stayed calm, he did not take the easy way out of saying "yeah rayn is scum, fuck you martyr shitting up the thread". Instead he said "i know what you did in NWM, you do this stuff, why am i scum according to you?". That was so really townie.
WHAT??? That was the exact reason you gave him a scumread earlier. You basically said that he was scum because he should be voting for you for shitting up the thread.
On November 22 2013 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Jampidampi that's a really bad post and there was no townie motivation behind my last 10 posts (towards anyone else than Mocsta - who i should probably realize is incapable to see the point anyways, my bad) because that's what i was trying to do.
I can't find any reasons why you should have not voted for me unless you know i am town and therefore scum.
Yeah you have no idea how i play. But your vote is on me and you are scum so idgaf.
WTF kind of response is this? I point out a direct contridiction and your response is "you have no idea how i play". WTF does that even mean? How you play is that you give someone a scumread and then use that exact same reasoning later to give them a townread?
yeah Onegu, thrawn, jampidampi and Mocsta (albeit he is hit this game) knows how i play. I do whatever i want.
On November 22 2013 11:11 thrawn2112 wrote: RAYN! Do you want to live? I am offering you the same olive branch you have repeatedly refused to accept. Post a list of your read on every player, at least a paragraph each should do.
Write a wall of text post and give your read on every single player. I'm looking for in depth explanations that show your thought process at work. If not every player at least give all your scumreads and any town reads you might feel comfortable posting.
tbh i have already done that.
It's hard to make sense of anything you say because it seems to change on a whim based on thread sentiment. I want a post consolidating all your current thoughts about this game because it will be way easier to read you compared to having to sort through your filter. The problem is that today you have been changing your reads so quickly that you haven't even had to justify them because as a result of how fast they change and as a result, your thought process is impossible to follow.
If you are town and want to save a townie from being lynched you will do this.
1.) Rean - town, read my filter. 2.) thrawn2112 - most likely town, willing to listen 3.) JarJarDrinks - scum, kill with fire. case. 4.) cDgCorazon - town, frustrated for me - Mocsta.seems genuine 5.) Bereft - scum. talks bullshit. scumslips. kill with fire 7.) Mocsta- scum - read what i said about him. i thought he would know better, nah, scum for what i said 8.) Aquanim - annoying (spoiler not for children) + Show Spoiler +
.... i wrote a lot of bad words here. ugh.. annoying.
9.) Onegu - town, has good gut reads. cool dude! 10.) Holyflare - town for knowing what he's talking about. 11.) sciberbia 12.) jampidampi
Is this what you are referring to? Do you sincerely think this will help town after you flip?
yes i do. there are 4 scumreds. cases are on my filter. so?
also i am policy voting for rean because he said he will catch up and never did. so in case you lynch me look at those people who said i was defending my scumbuddy. plox
town!mocsta couter claimed a medic (fakeclaimed) because he thought they were scum. town!mocsta is not policylynching, ever. town!mocsta also knows i am good at this game, not bad.
On November 22 2013 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look. I am really sure bot Rean and Jampidampi are town. Rean i have given my reasons on. Jampidampi because of his stance on me. Look how i went batshit crazy on him He stayed calm, he did not take the easy way out of saying "yeah rayn is scum, fuck you martyr shitting up the thread". Instead he said "i know what you did in NWM, you do this stuff, why am i scum according to you?". That was so really townie.
WHAT??? That was the exact reason you gave him a scumread earlier. You basically said that he was scum because he should be voting for you for shitting up the thread.
On November 22 2013 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Jampidampi that's a really bad post and there was no townie motivation behind my last 10 posts (towards anyone else than Mocsta - who i should probably realize is incapable to see the point anyways, my bad) because that's what i was trying to do.
I can't find any reasons why you should have not voted for me unless you know i am town and therefore scum.
Yeah you have no idea how i play. But your vote is on me and you are scum so idgaf.
WTF kind of response is this? I point out a direct contridiction and your response is "you have no idea how i play". WTF does that even mean? How you play is that you give someone a scumread and then use that exact same reasoning later to give them a townread?
yeah Onegu, thrawn, jampidampi and Mocsta (albeit he is hit this game) knows how i play. I do whatever i want.
When I hosted G.O.T. mafia it was the first time I'd seen you play and my impression of your scum play was that you were not afraid to push mafia objectives and you like to bully your way out of a conversation when someone is calling you scum. That matches what you are doing here. All day long I've been having flashbacks of this conversation in WC2 when you and umasi were scum:
On November 12 2013 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are going to post why Umasi is scum youshould probably post why i am scum too, otherwise i don't care. I have not fakeclaimed after Desert in any game.
I am not pushing any objective here am i? I am saying 3/4 of my reads are scum. So lynch me if you want ot. Lynch me if you think i am scum. Lynch me if i am not able to help the town. I really do not care. I am telling you who is scum, when i flip town maybe you'll see what i am after.
On November 22 2013 11:11 thrawn2112 wrote: RAYN! Do you want to live? I am offering you the same olive branch you have repeatedly refused to accept. Post a list of your read on every player, at least a paragraph each should do.
I did already?
On November 22 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:26 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:21 thrawn2112 wrote: RAYN
Write a wall of text post and give your read on every single player. I'm looking for in depth explanations that show your thought process at work. If not every player at least give all your scumreads and any town reads you might feel comfortable posting.
tbh i have already done that.
It's hard to make sense of anything you say because it seems to change on a whim based on thread sentiment. I want a post consolidating all your current thoughts about this game because it will be way easier to read you compared to having to sort through your filter. The problem is that today you have been changing your reads so quickly that you haven't even had to justify them because as a result of how fast they change and as a result, your thought process is impossible to follow.
If you are town and want to save a townie from being lynched you will do this.
1.) Rean - town, read my filter. 2.) thrawn2112 - most likely town, willing to listen 3.) JarJarDrinks - scum, kill with fire. case. 4.) cDgCorazon - town, frustrated for me - Mocsta.seems genuine 5.) Bereft - scum. talks bullshit. scumslips. kill with fire 7.) Mocsta- scum - read what i said about him. i thought he would know better, nah, scum for what i said 8.) Aquanim - annoying (spoiler not for children) + Show Spoiler +
.... i wrote a lot of bad words here. ugh.. annoying.
9.) Onegu - town, has good gut reads. cool dude! 10.) Holyflare - town for knowing what he's talking about. 11.) sciberbia 12.) jampidampi
Is this what you are referring to? Do you sincerely think this will help town after you flip?
yes i do. there are 4 scumreds. cases are on my filter. so?
I don't know why aren't indulging me if you are town. I do know why you might not be indulging me if you are scum.
Just do it rayn. Prove that you're a townie, prove that you actually have reads. Prove that you can produce content on demand.
I have told you why those people are scum. thrawn ffs. I HAVE DONE SO. LOOK AT MY FILTER! rly
On November 21 2013 13:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Bereft You stated Onegu is your town read. You filter four guys. Three which are your scumreads, and Onegu, your town read. That makes no sense given you have null-reads you should be filtering over your townreads in case you are trying to find scum. You are just following thread sentiment and it makes no sense. In fact you never even filter Aqua and Onegu after promising to do so.
On November 21 2013 13:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I want to lynch Bereft for the way he prioritizes things. That's fucking scummy. Notice Aqua was one of his three scumreads to filter. Now he has filtered Rean/Cora, has his vote on Rean, and defended Onegu's posts. He hasn't even read all his scumread's filters yet there is already a vote. A big no. Now sleep.
On November 22 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Quick version: - far too conservative and "nice", even towards me, throughout the game - puts on tunnel glasses when i stir up the thread (more on this later) - will not consider any motives but scum-motives to my actions which lasted ~15min (even after i explain myself) - should know better that it does not make me scum - scumslips (besides Bereft - who is also scum) - after that, when i call him out for it, look at his posts. rofl. suddenly he is "willing to reconsider". suddenly Rean is town while earlier asked everyone to consolidate on him. does a meta-search on Rean at that point, why no before? rofl. that's fucking ridiculous. - suddenly has "calmed down and is willing to discuss things with me" when it looks like i am ACTUALLY lynching myself.
Do you know how fucking terrible Mocsta will look when i get lynched? I do. Because i am making a full case still. I am also making a full case on Bereft and JarJar. thrawn could be scum too (in case JarJar is just really dumb). He's just pushing people into thinking "don't talk to rayn, just vote for him" and at the same time saying things he knows i can't stand. But it's okay, i will not take the bait. The case will come.
Also on Mocsta, Onegu's gutreads are actually really really good. I trust him on this, also because i am really sure he is town because he can't make a coherent case but still has strong reads. That's town Onegu.
On November 22 2013 06:26 cDgCorazon wrote: Your logic is bad ≠ you are scum You should know better, Rayn
nah Cora.
What JarJar is doing is that he has zero reasons to think i am scum other than "Rean is scum". This is not about logic. This is about thought process. You do not vote for someone because "they are defending a scumbuddy". You flip the scum and THEN say they WERE defending a scumbuddy.
Look at the quote JarJar is trying to bring up. That's a fucking DAY after i started "defending" Rean. He does not bring anything up about my defense, and how my defense does not make sense. He does not bring my scummy behavior regarding Rean up until NOW, when i "martyred". Originally that was his reasoning for voting for me, because he did not say anything else.
I am still going to make the case, but here are the bullet points:
How JJD treats his scumread Rean. He never interacts with him
He never tries to convince anyone Rean is scum
He talks about anything but why Rean is scum, all he says is "all other cases are crap"
In fact he talks more about Corazon between voting for Rean - voting for me
He does not tell anyone why his case is better than others
He is not scumhunting, he is just happily sitting on his vote, and when he can make a better vote he does it
Seriously, my case is going to include all of JJD's filter, just that you see how he does not give a fuck about lynching scum. I hope you read it because i know people are usually too lazy to even read filters and usually i don't give a fuck but if you are gonna lynch me then i suppose i need to give a fuck so you can look at my post after that.
On November 22 2013 07:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: The case:
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me.
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>
Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff.
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote: Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?
Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not?
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote: Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
@ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads.
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote: Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10
On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12
consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote: @Corazon I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.
This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.
This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote: (A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia (B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A) (C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.
And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote: @Mocsta If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him?
##Vote: Rean
The case is okay. I admit that. But what happens then? He makes 8 posts that have nothing to do with Rean. In fact those posts are talking about Corazon's statement about sciberbia. Why? His job is not to defend Corazon, his job is to make sure the town lynches scum. He is not doing that. Last post is to say "i'll look into Aqua" (another candidate at that time).
This is the point when i start questioning Rean because JJD is somehow incapable of doing so. I question him about his sciberbia read. JJD chimes in with:
On November 21 2013 03:22 Rean wrote: Neither before nor after he did anything about it. That's why I said it feels odd...but as I've said twice already, I want to see his response to this. Maybe you're right and he just wanted his opinion to be known. We'll know once he gets in here.
Seems like a wierd statement.
What will we know exactly once he gets in here? Whether he really thinks you're scummy or whether he was lying about it?
I am already talking about that, this is repeating what i say, "yeah i agree with rayn". He has not done his work in questioning Rean, his top read, he has talked about entirely something else the whole fucking time. He does not give a shit about the lynch.
Then he reads Aqua, comment is "i don't find him scummy at all". When questioned about it "he thinks Rean is scummy for same reasons i do". Connection bullshit.
Then he makes another 7 posts. About what? Accusing Corazon of being scum!! But his vote is on Rean. rofl. At that time i question Rean about JJD's case and he has no intention to talk about his top scumread his vote is on. Instead he finds it more productive to accuse Corazon of being scum. Right.
When i come to a conclusion Rean is most likely town and switch my vote, what does JJD do: + Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote: ...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant
Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote: Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.
Why the contradiction?
This is the best case in this game.
Really, cause I think this case sucks.
@ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts.
But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread.
He defends Aquanim for no reason. I point out a contradiction in what Aquanim says and how he acts. JJD defends Aqua and says "here, Rean did this like same stuff, but what Rean did is worse". Okay. But he has never updated that thought, i asked Rean about it and Rean explained. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED! JJD had nothing to say about it. Apparently he thinks his scumread is talking out of his ass but he says nothing about it. Seems legit? roflskates.
Then he makes some random posts about sciberbia and asks Mocsta if Mocsta thinks Rean is the best lynch. Then he says this:
On November 21 2013 13:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: Hey guys, can't post much tonight. Will have a bunch to say tomorrow. Still think Rean is the best lynch and I really hate all the alternate wagons.
I'd also be down w/ killing a lurker. First instinct tells me jampi is the best lurker lynch but I'll read up more tomorrow.
"Rean is the best lynch but i also agree with this."
Then Rean gets angry because he has answered all the accusations. JJD says "you can't say this because you were not doing that". It takes four posts, and then JJD concedes "okay maybe you meant that".
I guess I forgot about that. You did give a reason. It just seems like a strange thing to say about someone you're reading as scum. If it's a legitimate point then he's not scum.
<3 you man. Pretty much my reads exactly. Though I'd probably move Scib and Onegu up to the green group. Rayn has fallen way down for me from his early game. If I was gonna remove anyone from the reds, Rayne would probably take their place.
The only thing troubling, and I think you touched on this earlier, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a Rean/Cora scumteam. Would need to reread a bunch but I think that can be worried about after the flip.
"rayn is scummy now because he defended Rean (which you never said was scummy before while i have been defending him for like 24h)".
Connection case that is shit. He gives me a "scumread" (but really does not) for no reason. He has never said before this i defended Rean for wrong reasons. He has never interacted with me. He has never pointed out how my defense was bad. Hell he has not even addressed me - Rean interactions IN THE WHOLE GAME, other than one - when it suited his agenda of calling Rean scum. But NOW it's just bad.
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote: How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.
Notice this is Jampidampi questioning me. "HEY YEAH, EXPLAIN THAT BECAUSE I AM TOO SCARED TO QUESTION YOU MYSELF". This is what JJD is doing a lot of this game; "Yeah good question, explain that person X". Sheep.
I COULD see this coming from a townie if they were tunneled and just yelling people "Rean is scum" and putting all effort into making people vote for Rean. But JJD is not doing that. He is talking about everything else but Rean.
Then he votes for me. For martyring. Then he backpedals from the reasoning when i point out why he is scum. Just read these posts:
On November 22 2013 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote: I don't like anty lynch aside from Rayn or Rean here. Rayn made his move and got all the votes off Rean. If we switch to someone else, we're letting him dictate the vote. If we move off Rayne, they need to go back to Rean.
On November 22 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think you're scum because of your hard-defending of Rean. I can't see a town motive for you to go apeshit about how we're mislynching him. You just can't be that sure about someone that you thought was scum @ one point. I think he's your scumbuddy and you're doing everything you can to keep him out of the noose.
On November 22 2013 05:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you think i am scum because of defending him that can't possibly be true if Rean is not scum. Therefore you should be voting for Rean and not me.
/dunked
lol. So I should be voting for Rean even though my vote wouid be totally wasted there instead of for you who is also a scumread of mine?
Especially read the last two quotes. Also read my bullet point post (that's like table of contents).
JarJarDrinks is mafia!
I don't care to write about Aquanim, he is just an idiot who is barking a wrong tree. Or scum who is waving his dick around me. idgaf mostly.
On November 22 2013 11:40 Aquanim wrote: So instead of actually writing anything new about his scumreads, Rayn's quoting the same old arguments - which have already failed to persuade us. In fact he's so damn relucant to put any work in that he's given NOTHING about me; he doesn't have a previous case on me he can quote without effort so there isn't one.
Rayn's still scum.
also look at these kinda posts. these are really bad. because the person in question has failed to deliver any original argument after the first 10h of the game.
he's just hrowing shit at me for no reason. there is no reason to do so if he is town. when i flip he'll act "angry" and "FUCK YOURAYN WHY DID YOU DO SO".
On November 22 2013 11:42 Bereft wrote: holyflare is there any chance you'd be willing to vote rayn? even if not voting rayn means a no lynch? how about you, scib?
I will consolidate to avoid a no-lynch but I swear to christ he will flip town.
On November 22 2013 11:46 Bereft wrote: either the 5 of us voting Rayn need to ALL switch to Cora, or 2 need to switch to Rayn to get a lynch today. we have 15 minutes - guys, what are you thinking?
Like you are trying to achieve something scum? I am gonna get lynched and you are fake.
On November 22 2013 11:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: he's just hrowing shit at me for no reason. there is no reason to do so if he is town. when i flip he'll act "angry" and "FUCK YOURAYN WHY DID YOU DO SO".
t_T you're a sad person aquanim
I'm pointing out that you're continuing to troll us instead of playing towny in any way and in so doing continuing to push your lynch. Which is my reason as a townie for continuing to illustrate your failure to contribute.
I made very good cases on people who are scum. We can talk about this post-game but what you did was "PLZ PPL TELL ME WHAT TO TALK ABOUT OMGOMG I AM SO THREATENED".
On November 22 2013 11:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: he's just hrowing shit at me for no reason. there is no reason to do so if he is town. when i flip he'll act "angry" and "FUCK YOURAYN WHY DID YOU DO SO".
Actually i do not think town was playing well for the first half of D1. Yes they were right, but for wrong reasons. Based on a case that was answered and noone updated their read on Rean after that, just said "but he is scum". Even when town is right like that it is not good play by any means. I tried to confront sciberbia about his weird "i wanna lynch Onegu but i am more interedsted in telling Aquanim should not be lynched than i am telling qwhy Onegu should be lynched". I even thought of making a case on him, but then Mocsta effectively shut down the discussion for god knows what reason.
Yes i ruined the second half of D1 and it was totally and only my fault, but i do not think the first half was "good play" either - regardless how right or wrong town was.
EDIT: yamato it's not a good thread atmosphere where everyone are just friends with each other. If noone confronts other people and where there are no conflicts it usually always ends up in a townie lynch. People just agreed on the first 2 things there were and i'd say it was 100% luck that one of the cases happened to be on scum. If Rean/Aqua would have both been town and I was not in the game ruining the end of D1 it would have been ideal scum atmosphere where noone does anything and all discussion is shut down.
On December 03 2013 16:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually i do not think town was playing well for the first half of D1. Yes they were right, but for wrong reasons. Based on a case that was answered and noone updated their read on Rean after that, just said "but he is scum".
Well it's hard to definitively say whether the reasons were right or not. Only Rean could really tell us for sure. But given that town moved off of a town wagon (Aquanim) onto a scum one (Rean) I'm inclined to think they were doing something right. And I felt the atmosphere was mostly constructive up until that point.
Rayn I think you can make some good reads and sometimes look pretty smart, but presuming that you are right and everyone else in town is wrong to the point where you refuse to let town have their lynch is a bit much. I think you have to be more willing to concede the possibility that you are wrong (this goes for everyone).
My point is this:
JJD made the original case on Rean. That was the case people agreed on. JJD never questioned Rean about anything he said after that, nor did anyone else. Then i made him answer the points pointed at him in the case, and i found his answers reasonable. I dunno should i have done so, or not, but i did.
After that i unvoted him. Then other people came in and said "but Rean is scum" or "we should consolidate on Rean". That's retarded because the case is already answered to, and if people still think he is scum they should address and tear apart his answers. Noone did so. That made me think the votes on rean were either lazy townies or scum. Nobody updated the read on him, just called him scum based on something he already answered without reasonably commenting on the answers.
On December 03 2013 16:48 yamato77 wrote: It's really depressing to me that the two players who need to learn the most are both convinced they did nothing wrong.
If you are referring to me i do know exactly what i did wrong.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4t8oM40)
". I'll make sure i will (or in case i get shot on N1 you will) lynch thrawn on D2 if this Rean lynch happens because i can't fight against it by myself.
