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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437262
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 18 2013 04:09 GMT
#35
Why not
/in

I'm going to be inactive next weekend though
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 18 2013 07:37 GMT
#38
On November 18 2013 16:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Good. No one I would policy vig. Glad to be playing with Moc again too ^^

U 2
If I made the cutoff
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 18 2013 10:51 GMT
#41
If the cut is full, I can /replace
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 18 2013 23:42 GMT
#54
I think it depends on cursing filling in for slam

Otherwise I will
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 00:33 GMT
#56
Damb auto correctcursing is chezinu lol
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 00:34 GMT
#57
Sweet I'm in
Thanks gm

Cora get ready to get tunneled muahahahah
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 00:35 GMT
#58
Actually I want to use this game to get back to basics. So I think I will give myself a 25 post restriction per cycle to force me to consolidate posts.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 01:26 GMT
#62
Oer 19 2013 09:38 marvellosity wrote:
well, that's a silly idea.

What is?

I thoight Sicilian was one of my better games
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 02:54 GMT
#64
On November 19 2013 11:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote:
Oer 19 2013 09:38 marvellosity wrote:
well, that's a silly idea.

What is?

I thoight Sicilian was one of my better games

He think's it is silly because Marv has a personal goal to have at least 33% of all the posts in a game.

In fairness. He is one of the few that can spam and speak coherently.

I wonder how witty he is in real life
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 03:05 GMT
#68
On November 19 2013 11:56 ObviousOne wrote:
Wait

You're saying... This isn't real life?

Surely this is in jest?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 11:41 GMT
#75
On November 19 2013 19:58 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote:
Oer 19 2013 09:38 marvellosity wrote:
well, that's a silly idea.

What is?

I thoight Sicilian was one of my better games

Amidst the jabbings about my awesome, game-winning spamming, I shall answer your question.

Posting quantity isn't your problem. When I see you doing silly things, I'm not thinking "gosh, if only Mocsta would post less, he wouldn't be doing these silly things". You don't really tend to post one-liners.

Whatever your deficiencies are, they're different, thought-process ones, not postcount ones.

Fair call.

I tend to type as I think and have never been a double-checker.

Post consolidation forced me to double check, so I found in Sicilian I had more coherent/logical posts. Perhaps 1 good post in every 3 to 5.
Whereas I can accept normally my quality ratio might be 1 good post in every 10.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 19 2013 22:39 GMT
#79
On November 20 2013 02:03 yamato77 wrote:
You mean the newbie I replaced into and was immediately shot in?

And the newbie where you almost got lynched d1 but spay defended you and town lynched him for it?

DAT game, yo.

i didnt think yam was in that game?

I thought he replaced into newbie 34? ohh well
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 00:07 GMT
#81
As in 3 to 4 hrs away? I hope so.

I'm itching to get into a game.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:00 GMT
#85
post 1
Yo fuck the POLICE
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:06 GMT
#89
On November 20 2013 12:01 Aquanim wrote:
Mocsta, are you scum?

Post 2
Scum: a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

No, I am not.

I am a mobster, which is typically "scum" in the world of forum-mafia
However, in this game, roles are reversed and of the town I am.



Your turn.
@Aquanim Why ask such a pointless, non-alignment indicative question.

I understand some people view early trolling as part of the game, however, I would think you do not fall into this category.
In fact, I would argue the above is completely out-of-character for a town Aquanim.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:15 GMT
#95
On November 20 2013 12:11 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
@Aquanim Why ask such a pointless, non-alignment indicative question.

I understand some people view early trolling as part of the game, however, I would think you do not fall into this category.
In fact, I would argue the above is completely out-of-character for a town Aquanim.

I played a couple of IRL games of mafia a while back and, for lack of anything better to do, asked people that question. I noticed that townies tended to just say 'No' whereas mafia tended to dodge and be sarcastic.

I don't know whether the same trend will apply here, but there's only one way to find out. Call it "Science".

post 3
And the outcome of this now "apparently" alignment indicative question.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:16 GMT
#96
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:24 GMT
#100
On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

post 5
Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya.

I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you.
Course not everyone has posted so this is tentative and subject to change.

The answer to your question was in my previous post.
Dr ja vu.

Thrawn is contextually reading the same as I do. It's only a small point but enough for a town lean at this stage of the game.

Thanks for looking out for my post count
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:26 GMT
#102
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

post 6
I can't remember what a scum Cora is like.. but the above sounds more typical of town if I recall correctly.

If I were to have a go at Corazon, it would be more along the lines of that being his sole post so far, yet being present in the thread to post that.

Read is null.

You look bad for trying to point fingers already on something that is null so early.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 03:28 GMT
#105
post 7,
I Gotta scoot for a bit but the above post by sci is strike 2

One more and he gets my vote.

So damn dodgy. Sci is better than this. I expect him to be the analytical guy in this thread.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:22 GMT
#159
Post 8

(1) I won't have a post restriction anymore, but I will be numbering my posts so I can try and force consolidation.

(2)
On November 20 2013 14:21 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta, whenever you get back:

If someone gave you a day-vigilante shot and said you had to shoot someone in this thread right now, who would it be and why?

(This isn't quite the same question as "Who is your biggest scumread", by the way.)

I wouldn't shoot anyone right now. JJD, Vonthin, Onegu, LM, Jampidampi have yet to post. Thats just under 50% of the game.

Having said that: if I had a one-time bullet that kills scum and misses town; I would shoot between Sciberbia/Corazon/Bereft.

Pur quoi?
Warning MASSIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY ANALYSIS of therad
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote:
THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN

I find this tone overdone / try-hard. Its only a very slight negative lean.

On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Having just come out of a game as scum. I personally feel this is written with the tone of scum-scum.
Sciberbia takes a position using strong descriptive words "trolly" and "ingratiating" from one post that to me - with limited knowledge - is null.
Further, Sciberbia references my name.. I find this odd.
I know I am town, but only scum should be aware of that too.
Now: SCiberbia does not comment on my alignment here; yet, directly infers it was scummish for Corazon to
"echo" what I said.

On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

I find this tone too aggressive. As I stated in my retort to Bereft, scum like to interupt town circles.
Thrawn is hardly confirmed to me, but of the 7 people to post, he is my best town read.
I will give this a null tell by itself - however if Bereft keeps up the aggression I will be treating him as scum.

On November 20 2013 12:26 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:18 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:12 Aquanim wrote:
Also, it gave you something to ask me about, so as a conversation starter I consider it a success.


What are your conclusions about moc's alignment based on his answer?

A teeny-tiny town-lean since he seems to be relaxed.

That's interesting. I assumed you were coming to the opposite conclusion, since to me his response looks more "sarcastic and dodgy" than "just saying no". What about his response strikes you as relaxed?

+ Show Spoiler [sarcastic and dodgy] +

On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
Scum: a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

No, I am not.

I am a mobster, which is typically "scum" in the world of forum-mafia
However, in this game, roles are reversed and of the town I am.


Again, as stated before this reads to me gentle prodding: NOT for information, but to discredit.

Coming back to the thread, Aquanim reads a lot more calm/composed to me so is back to null. I think Sciberbia has jumped too brashly into an opportunity to shit-sling and from a player of his analytical background I find this highly suspicious.

On November 20 2013 12:27 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

agreed, very high chance imo. only potentially succeeded by this even more 'safe' entrance:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:00 sciberbia wrote:
Hello everyone!


also trolly and ingratiating because why are you smiling at me? i've no idea who you are. are you my enemy? i don't know about you, but i've come from a tough city, living on the streets, forced to make a living in any way possible. i don't smile at passerby's on the street. the only people that do, do so with a smug sneer, and they are the pigs.


I have a problem with this post because its completely 180' with where my mindset is in the thread. I also do not like the interplay between Sciberbia and Bereft. I want to avoid making association reads without flips but I find Bereft is overly defensive and certainly not natural.

"I've no idea who you are. are you my enemy?

In one phrase: Its just over compensated.

On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


I saw some people give Thumbs up for this post. I thought it stunk - real bad. I think Corazon needs to use soap next time he has a shower.
Its a bunch of generic policy stuff and is how I used to love playing scum (in the newbies). Technically the post is null as inexperienced town can do this and supposedly we can judge corazon based on how he implements this.
My issue with this post was the last paragraph:

"On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss.
We're not going to find scum on the first page.
You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game."

I find it odd that Corazon is confident enough to say that the posters on the first page are all town (Sciberbia, Bereft, Thrawn, Aquanim, Corazon, myself) and simultaneously ignore my post giving scum reads to Bereft/Sciberbia/Aquanim.
I think this is damage control.

On November 20 2013 12:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


I'd like to say that mason falls under the role of "standard roles" and could be potentially in this set-up. Very intriguing...

This might be Mocsta using moclogic.. but I treat this as a scum slip.
Corazon jumps to the natural conclusion that we are both confirmed, so assumes we did it through a role = mason.
I think anyone else without game knowledge can piece together we were takling about the "de ja vu" from before.
At the least it shows Corazon is NOT reading the thread closely which is suspicious for this many posts.

On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Ditto the corazon read above

On November 20 2013 12:47 Bereft wrote:
he's referencing mocsta saying that i'm trying to disrupt their town circle:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

post 5
Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya.

I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you.
Course not everyone has posted so this is tentative and subject to change.

The answer to your question was in my previous post.
Dr ja vu.

Thrawn is contextually reading the same as I do. It's only a small point but enough for a town lean at this stage of the game.

Thanks for looking out for my post count

I will give Bereft town points here. He has arrived at the natural conclusion. So back to null.


- Rean than makes a really bad introduction post, but thats null. If anything its town that usually make such "zero content" posts because they actually believe what they are saying they think it *is* content.

On November 20 2013 12:52 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?


no

Can you explain your statement then?


Think he means they have town reads based on previous meta or something. Not actually confirmed-confirmed.

Comes to the natural conclusion albeit slightly differently. I think this is very townie though. He knows nothing of thrawn or myself... could not interpret what I meant when i said thrawn is town so assumed it was meta based. This demonstrates a guy thinking about the game. Its not anything to be confirmed town, but is a very good sign this early in the game.

- Then Corazon/Sci shit the thread up.

On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?
Aqua is thinking the same way I do. I like this. He is a lot more polite about his suspicions/prodding though.

On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

This resposne is really bad as once again it completely ignores the content I posted about those players.
Maybe I'm wrong, but at this stage of the game it illicits a response regardless.
Horse blinkers like these are not a good sign this early on.

On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.

Personal heuristic but I find early game its only scum that use phrases like this.
"I think we're actually doing quite well so far"
How the heck does town have a guage on what is good/bad when only 50% of the players have participated.

On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

Bereft is either comfortable distancing team mates, or is town. - I am not familiar enough with his meta to make an opinion yet.
I like that he picks up on this stuff to corazon that I already identified earlier. Still null.

On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.


Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro.

The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now.

I dunno, this is just too haste from Corazon. Everyone knows he is "sensitive" and prone to OMGUS so it does dilute the read a touch, however, I can't keep getting over this is scum-to-scum interaction.

"You're grasping at straws" + "you are looking pretty scummy" are strong words and stances, yet, does it really read like Corazon is *trying* to get Sciberbia lynched? I dont sense congruence here.

Again, scum-to-scum interactions I think...


- I like the way Aquanim is prodding Rean.


On November 20 2013 13:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

He didn't do it with just me. He told Moc and I that it was scummy that we made troll posts. At least Mocsta was direct in saying who he thought was scummy instead of sciberia who is only doing a "window looking" version of scum hunting.

This post is null to me. Corazon reads very emotional so its hard to understand motive.


On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?

Bereft is starting to look better as is reading the actual content behind the queries. Rean does the same.

- I entirely agreed with Thrawn vote at that time

On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
Excellent post from Aquanim. If hes scum, hes playing a great game because hes asking the questions that are in my head as Im reading it. That is very hard to do as scum.

On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

I think this is a scum-slip.
Corazon is too assertive in his read and this goes beyond emotion. When I read this, I take it as someone who is speaking "matter of fact".
This is enough for me to be 90% confident that both Sciberbia and Corazon are scum.

There is no way that enough content has been delivered in this thread for a town person to jump to such a strong conclusion as this. Event hough I think Sciberbia is scummy, I do think he came in here with the intention to troll like this. I was just posting a theory.

On November 20 2013 13:40 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


Do you find this behavior suspicious from Aquanim or are you simply making an observation?

The question is fair, however, in context of thread events this is aterrible post.
Corazon is slamming into Sciberbia, and this is what Sciberbia thinks is relevant to discuss? WTF?

On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Thrawn
When I made that post, I was thinking along the lines of "I think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum.

This post does not align with his strong opinion in the previous post.
Im starting to sound tunneled because I am now so so so certain Corazon and Sciberbia are scum.

On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?


I am not a fan of Aquanim for this interpretation however, I also know he is more calculated than I am so can accept a town Aquanim may play out the thread like this. Im going to go null but will be curious how Aquanim chooses to interpret this massive post and my conclusions.

On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.

More generics from Corazon. Importantly, he just called Sciberbia scum last page and now is acting as if nothing happened.
Deffo scum

On November 20 2013 13:57 sciberbia wrote:
@Rean
What is your strongest scumread right now and why?

Again, he also dodges the shit-ball fight of Corazon.

Some may argue that is towny to avoid this and not shit the thread. However, the key differentiator I find is that if town choose that approach they would also ACKNOWLEDGE the existence of the read. Sciberbia just dodges it and hopes no one brings it up further. Very bad.

On November 20 2013 13:57 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:51 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:49 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=7#127

Ah yes, my bad.

Do you think Corazon's argument that sciberbia is scum is persuasive? Why or why not?


Persuasive...it's a good argument. Sciberbia was being more laidback, trying to avoid comitting to anything, so it definitely makes him look scummy.

Overall the kind of argument that gets discussion started and gets us somewhere useful, I quite like it. Guess persuasive would be a decent way to describe it.
This guy is interesting. As scum I think I would phrase things similar to this guy because there is always an 'out'. I think in this instance, this is a townie with an opinion speaking naturally and as the thought comes to his mind. Can evaluate him more if the flips on Corazon/Sciberbia go awry - which I doubt.
[/QUOTE]

In short I am very comfortable to lynch Corazon and Sciberbia.
I would lynch Corazon because him trying to wriggle out of it will be more fun/alignment-revealing in my opinion.

##Vote: cDgCorazon

and to answer your question, I would shoot Sciberbia as he is the other half.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:24 GMT
#160
post 9
It should be clear that the first half of the above post (till pur quoi) was written when i got back.

The second half was written after I filter-dived and reassessed my opinion - hence why I would take the shot.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:28 GMT
#162
post 10
Thrawn baby: De ja Vu all over again.

We might as well be masons + innocent childs
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:29 GMT
#163
On November 20 2013 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
*snip*

Scib, can you explain your intentions behind this post?

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Were you trying to raise a legitimate concern about Corazon's post?

post 12
Let me answer that for you:

"No Thrawn, I was not trying to raise legitimate concerns.

In fact I was trying to half-heartedly distance myself from my scum buddy"
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:39 GMT
#165
[Post 12b[/b]
@sci
Did you open my spoiler and read my grievances with you?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:50 GMT
#170
Post 13
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11.

Duly Noted - hence 12b prior

Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together.

(1) I am not trying to say anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say.
(2) This is a very scummy response.
You do not actually retort anything I said; instead you try to brush it off by insinuating it is stupid/incorrect.
Guess what
I am not going to take that leap of faith, and I won't let the thread take that leap either.

If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes.
Everyone has an ideal way they think they would ply their trade; yet, when push comes to shove so many things do not come to bear.

Translation:I don't really care what you think you would do pre-game BEFORE receiving a role PM.
What I care about is how you have played this game since AFTER receiving a role PM
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:56 GMT
#173
Post 14
@Thrawn:

What do you think of Rean response.

I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that.

I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is.
Hence, what is the point of the comment?

In short I see 3 outcomes of his post
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.


(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.

Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues??

Catch my drift?

P.S. Fuck da POLICE
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 07:06 GMT
#177
Post 15
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
I can agree.
I think personally what started off as light distancing back-fired once others (read: town) called them out. Then their story just falls to pieces.
Having said that, I feel much more confident about Corazon being scum than Sciberbia.
Having said that , I am still very concerned that Sciberbia reacted to the "mason thing" the same way as Corazon. I truly think this is a legitimate point - even though its somewhat post-flip based.

@Sci
Point #1 is good
Point #2 I dont even understand what you are trying to suggest
Point #3 is good
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 07:10 GMT
#181
On November 20 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote:
@thrawn
I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.


That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why..

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote:
THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:00 Mocsta wrote:
post 1
Yo fuck the POLICE


true dat


These posts came before your comment on Mocsta. Aren't they both as "safe" and "trolly" as what Corazon did? Why did you decide that only Corazon deserved to be called out for what bereft and I also did?

One of your concerns with C's post is that it "echoes what Mocsta said." Typically a point like this can be valid when someone restates another's argument, and the reason why it would be scummy is because it means the person who "echoes" has to "echo" because they cannot produce content of their own. Are you really trying to suggest that Corazon didn't know what to say, so he decided to copy Mocsta, and is therefore scummy? That argument completely falls apart when you're talking about something so silly and non-alignment indicative as saying "fuck the police."



@thrawn
I agree it's an extremely weak tell. It was the first page of the game so that's all you can expect.

Bereft's post is much more attention-grabby and less 'safe' than Cora's. If anything I leaned town on Bereft for his first post.
Your first post was slightly less blendy than Cora's and you followed it up with a natural question, so that was a point in your favor.


I'm not going to argue how Cora's first post makes him scum. That's just a silly argument. I just find it ever so slightly scummier than the other initial posts, so that's why I chose to single his out. I basically looked at all the opening posts and thought to myself, "Which of these might I post as scum if I was hoping to blend in and not draw attention?" and Cora's fit that description best.
Not to be a prick, but your opener fits that bill more than Corazon.

Corazon and I have history, so you could argue he opened that way to satiate me from tunneling him.
However, town are guilty of posting responses like that as openers or second posts very often.
its part of early game trolling.

Hence why I gave Corazon post a null tell. I don't like how you rambled several paragraphs just to state the above.

Too much quantity, not enough substance.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 07:20 GMT
#182
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.

Important things for everyone to know:

As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation

- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.

The others no idea.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:10 GMT
#189
On November 20 2013 16:46 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
@Mocsta
+ Show Spoiler +


Having just come out of a game as scum. I personally feel this is written with the tone of scum-scum.
Sciberbia takes a position using strong descriptive words "trolly" and "ingratiating" from one post that to me - with limited knowledge - is null.
Further, Sciberbia references my name.. I find this odd.
I know I am town, but only scum should be aware of that too.
Now: SCiberbia does not comment on my alignment here; yet, directly infers it was scummish for Corazon to
"echo" what I said.



I felt his post was 99% null and the 1% scummy. That's all there is to it. It's really senseless to try to keep analyzing this when we now have so much more to go on.

Your alignment was irrelevant. His post is blendy regardless of what your alignment is.

+ Show Spoiler +


Again, as stated before this reads to me gentle prodding: NOT for information, but to discredit.

Coming back to the thread, Aquanim reads a lot more calm/composed to me so is back to null. I think Sciberbia has jumped too brashly into an opportunity to shit-sling and from a player of his analytical background I find this highly suspicious.



This isn't shit-slinging at all.. I was prodding aquanim for information. I was confused why he called your response townie because I thought the natural conclusion from his premises was that it was scummy. I thought he might just be scared to seriously call you scum which is why I asked for more explanation to see how genuine his response was. It seemed genuine enough so I let it go at that.

+ Show Spoiler +

You claimed that my asking thrawn if he was claiming masons is a scumslip.


This tell is objectively ridiculous on two levels. First of all, it was not perfectly clear whether thrawn was claiming masons or not, given that he used the words "confirmed town to each other" and he had stated no prior indication that he thought you were town (I checked). So I wasn't wrong to ask him whether he was claiming or not, because it was objectively unclear.

And secondly, even if it was objectively crystal clear that he wasn't claiming masons, I'm pretty sure that my alignment has very little to no bearing on my reading comprehension.

Let me know if I missed anything that you still want me to respond to. (thrawn, mocsta)
Nah we are OK.

That sprawl before was thoughts written as I was reading and unedited.

I have had "another" re-read and have had a chance to settle my thoughts.
##Unvote

I feel better about Corazon because of the impetus he had on page 8 when Rean questioned Aquanim about town/scum reads.
At this time, Corazon/Sciberbia were going at it pretty hard; and Corazon feels the compulsion to inject himself into the convo of Rean/Aquanim to state some pro-town stuff.
Considering the battle with Sciberia, I find this move as scum highly unlikely - as it suggests that a scum Corazon was not threatened by being pressured by Scibs et al - something which contradicts his emotional mindset.

I have downgraded Scibs to null territory as I like his consistency. Curerntly I think I am misinterpreting his intentions.
Maybe he genuinely does hate trolling, and I just haven't seen him like this before.



Somethings still bugging me about Rean *and* Aquanim. I think its their composure during all of this.

Thrawn case on Aquanim is interesting and I want to see his response before proceeding further.

As an aside:
I find it curious that Aquanim thought Thrawn was town for throwing a leading vote onto Corazon, yet did not join the train himself. I don't think he attributed the tell as as "thrawn specific" tell, so the corollary is that he agreed Corazon was scummy

Further, I do not like how Aquanim handled the Mocsta town-read query from Sciberbia regarding sarcasm.
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:26 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:18 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:12 Aquanim wrote:
Also, it gave you something to ask me about, so as a conversation starter I consider it a success.


What are your conclusions about moc's alignment based on his answer?

A teeny-tiny town-lean since he seems to be relaxed.

That's interesting. I assumed you were coming to the opposite conclusion, since to me his response looks more "sarcastic and dodgy" than "just saying no". What about his response strikes you as relaxed?

+ Show Spoiler [sarcastic and dodgy] +

On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
Scum: a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

No, I am not.

I am a mobster, which is typically "scum" in the world of forum-mafia
However, in this game, roles are reversed and of the town I am.


I think it's to be expected that in a forum game replies will be more verbose, and I'd expect some level of sarcasm from Mocsta in any case. Without any previous experience with this tactic in a forum game I don't have a baseline to compare to.

As an actual answer to your question: While his answer does have a fair bit of fluff in it, I don't get the feeling that he is uncomfortable talking about his alignment[ which I think is the pertinent point. The "No, I am not" is quite direct.
First he says townies just say "no" which my response didnt fit into.
Then he says I am town because I was relaxed.
Then says i was direct.

The "No, I am not" was referring to be dirt or froth, and was clearly written in jest; thus satisfying his sarcastic criteria for scum.

All up this reads as bullshit to justify a compromising position.
This is not enough to secure a vote, but is a negative point none-the-less.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...)
/rant
Ironic, because technically I did this before disappearing. Why wasn't I called out for this??

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?[/QUOTE]I suppose if Aquanim was scum hes not putting pressure on him because Scib focus was Corazon.
However, in general I like this question.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:17 GMT
#190
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
This is a really smooth response by the way. I'm going to add this to my memory banks with your permission.

Having said that: it did appear to me that you were more infatuated talking to Rean when Corazon was happening. The above does not do anything to address the non-committment Thrawn was referring to as you are talking about a position POST-HOC.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
I will wait for a response from Rean before weighing in on that argument.

Regarding Corazon: I find it odd you think that is damning . Unless both are scum, I find that action to be indicative of town.
You do not appear to think Sciberbia is scum; which perplexes me why you would think Corazon is thus, scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:21 GMT
#193
On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned.

Quote of the day.

+ Show Spoiler +
Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive
I gotta get some credit mason man


##Vote: Aquanim

Choo-Choo !!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:24 GMT
#194
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:30 GMT
#197
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting.
You have got to be joking me?

As we are speaking generically: the only time scum have an easy time giving scum reads is if they are referring to their own team. Otherwise, they are *always* lying - due to calling town players that they *know* are town... scum.

Mafia is a game of psychology and motive. The whole point is to catch mafia in a lie that a townie would not execute. Scum giving bullshit scum reads is meant to be one of those avenues.

I dont have a clue how you get this so wrong?


On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon.
Why feel the need to build a case and *vote* for Rean instead of produce a series of questioning aimed at discerning his alignment?

If anything a vote/case on him could make him harder to read as it puts him on the alert??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:33 GMT
#199
On November 20 2013 17:29 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?

I'm asking him about his thought process.
I find that "held back" is a very interesting way to describe Sciberias play up to that point, imo he was one of the most direct poeple at that time.
OK, thanks.

Have you read the whole thread?

Is it safe to assume that because you are "intrigued" by Rean, you are in any agreement with Aquanim case on Rean?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:34 GMT
#200
On November 20 2013 17:31 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 17:30 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting.
You have got to be joking me?

As we are speaking generically: the only time scum have an easy time giving scum reads is if they are referring to their own team. Otherwise, they are *always* lying - due to calling town players that they *know* are town... scum.

Mafia is a game of psychology and motive. The whole point is to catch mafia in a lie that a townie would not execute. Scum giving bullshit scum reads is meant to be one of those avenues.

I dont have a clue how you get this so wrong?

You've misunderstood me. It's an easy question for scum to ASK. That is, if Rean is scum, he can very easily just ask someone for their scumreads.

Correct, thats me jumping back into the mindset of posting before thinking.
My bad.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:02 GMT
#207
Thrawn

I don't think aquanim drum can be beat anymore till the remaining players chime in.

Same can be said for Corazon.

I got nothing more to say myself
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:09 GMT
#210
Aquanim
You did newbies with Corazon

Regarding
Him being so butthurt someone copied him

Null, town or scum tell
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:09 GMT
#211
Thrawn

I don't think aquanim drum can be beat anymore till the remaining players chime in.

Same can be said for Corazon.

I got nothing more to say myself
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:12 GMT
#212
Weird phone double post.

Aqua
Explain to me in dumb terms why Cora not voting is alignment indicative.

I have seen take that stance so many times by town I don't get where you are coming from
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 13:21 GMT
#226
onegu

your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town

walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to .
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 13:32 GMT
#228
On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.

On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.

1. do you have an opinion on aquanim?

2. why is it an issue he only talks about sciberbia? who else was worth discussing at that point in time?

3. why is the town reads component not useful?

4. I don't get the point of the sentence with sciberbia.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 13:34 GMT
#229
On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.

Important things for everyone to know:

As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation

- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.

The others no idea.



Really? You dont know me yet?

u hadn't posted yet.
plus u have had a meta change for me at least since Hogwarts.

what is your read on thrawn,because if you are worried about me the corollary isb that you should be worried about thraawn
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 13:55 GMT
#235
onegu
u better give more when you come back, because right now what you are writing seems so fake.
however, I am willing to hear you out.

aquanim
thoughts on jampidampi
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 13:56 GMT
#236
jjd

read the whole thread. if you still need an answer to your question, let me know and I will respond otherwise what you are asking is pointless.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 14:02 GMT
#237
On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu

your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town

walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to .



Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive.

if catching scum is your motive

1. why are you not probing rean ifbhe is your scum read?

2. you haven't queired me at all to discern my alignment.

ok you think I'm scum.
yet, you don't make a case or probe me.. instead you run a smear campaign using fancy buzzwords and zero content.

so for another time, why is this the only thing worth commenting about in the whole thread?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 14:17 GMT
#242
On November 20 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 22:56 Mocsta wrote:
jjd

read the whole thread. if you still need an answer to your question, let me know and I will respond otherwise what you are asking is pointless.
Almost there. But my point isn't that I want to know why you think those people are scummy. I want to know why you think sci is scummy for basically doing the same thing you did.

The only difference I see is that he gave a reason while you didn't. Which I think looks worse for you.

jjd

I gave reasons??
I am having trouble whether you haven't seen the two posts I made in reference to scibwrbia, or, you can't follow my reasoning??

based on your dialogue it appears you van not find my reasoning?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 14:53 GMT
#247
On November 20 2013 23:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I want to know why you think sci is scummy for basically doing the same thing you did.

The only difference I see is that he gave a reason while you didn't. Which I think looks worse for you.

This is in regards to:
On November 20 2013 22:50 JarJarDrinks wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Only a few pages in but first impression is mocsta is scum. Giving himself a post limit and then posting a bunch of 1-liners to start the game is pretty bad. Then he get's pissed @ Bereft for questioning him about it?

This post really stuck out to me:
On November 20 2013 12:26 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

post 6
I can't remember what a scum Cora is like.. but the above sounds more typical of town if I recall correctly.

If I were to have a go at Corazon, it would be more along the lines of that being his sole post so far, yet being present in the thread to post that.

Read is null.

You look bad for trying to point fingers already on something that is null so early.
Why exactly does sci look bad for pointing fingers so early? @ least sci gave a reason. Now it may not have been a good reason but would he have been less scummy if he just said cora was a scum read w/o any reason @ all? Aparently, since that's what Mocsta did:
On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

post 5
Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya.

I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you.
Course not everyone has posted so this is tentative and subject to change.

The answer to your question was in my previous post.
Dr ja vu.

Thrawn is contextually reading the same as I do. It's only a small point but enough for a town lean at this stage of the game.

Thanks for looking out for my post count
Of the 3 people he named, he only posted a small reason for Aquanim about how he questioned him.

So Mocsta, is sciberbia for pointing fingers for a bad reason scummier than you pointing fingers for no reason @ all?

(A) "So Mocsta, is sciberbia for pointing fingers for a bad reason scummier than you pointing fingers for no reason @ all?"
I had reasoning and its in post 6 that you quoted??
I can't remember what a scum Cora is like.. but the above sounds more typical of town if I recall correctly.

+ Show Spoiler +
If I were to have a go at Corazon, it would be more along the lines of that being his sole post so far, yet being present in the thread to post that.


Read is null. Insert: Refering to Corazon

You look bad for trying to point fingers already on something that is null so early.
It sounds to me more like you do not approve/follow the reasoning.

If so, I thought Sciberbia was making a mountain of a molehill.
Keep in mind my perspective of Sciberbia is that he is an analytical player, and certainly not a troll - thus, my expectations of his play do not cater for posts like the above.


As for an additional post regarding the same Sciberbia post, it was within my spoilered play-by-play analysis.
On November 20 2013 15:22 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Having just come out of a game as scum. I personally feel this is written with the tone of scum-scum.
Sciberbia takes a position using strong descriptive words "trolly" and "ingratiating" from one post that to me - with limited knowledge - is null.
Further, Sciberbia references my name.. I find this odd.
I know I am town, but only scum should be aware of that too.
Now: SCiberbia does not comment on my alignment here; yet, directly infers it was scummish for Corazon to
"echo" what I said.

This is a matter of interpretation. Sciberbia later comments that he thinks his "echo" statement is independant of alignment.



Ultimately, my read on Sciberbia has changed as I have re-read the game.
Again this is clear in my filter. My last public opinion was:
On November 20 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
*snip*
I have downgraded Scibs to null territory as I like his consistency. Curerntly I think I am misinterpreting his intentions.
Maybe he genuinely does hate trolling, and I just haven't seen him like this before.




Regarding the second part: Baseless scum calls on 3 players.
Again I gave reasons for the 3 reasons.
Sciberbia: As described above
Aquanim:
On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
*snip*
@Aquanim Why ask such a pointless, non-alignment indicative question.

I understand some people view early trolling as part of the game, however, I would think you do not fall into this category.
In fact, I would argue the above is completely out-of-character for a town Aquanim.


Bereft: [QUOTE]On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:
Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya.
/QUOTE]




One thing to keep in mind is that you are reading the thread delayed (page 5 to 13) thus it is easy for you to read and say I disagree. The key questions have been asked and there is more information to make an informed opinion.
Whereas in my situation, everything is live and you have to evolve your position as posts come through.



Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 14:54 GMT
#248
JJD
Did you ask me this stuff because like Onegu you think I am scum;

or, were they just items of interest to you?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 14:59 GMT
#250
On November 20 2013 23:39 LoneMeow wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 22:32 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.

On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.

1. do you have an opinion on aquanim?

2. why is it an issue he only talks about sciberbia? who else was worth discussing at that point in time?

3. why is the town reads component not useful?

4. I don't get the point of the sentence with sciberbia.


1. I have slight town read on Aquanim. He seems to post his thought processes and they make sense.

2. Town tends to be more paranoid and suspect everyone. Also, it would be useful to engage in talk about other players because it helps figure out any possible connections later when we see players flip.

3. I'm not sure what you mean? My note was that this is a weird discussion:

On November 20 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:54 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:47 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.


Sure, a good scum read is far more useful. But it might still say something useful. Put it like this, a town read and a scum read is better than just a scum read.

In my opinion, a better thing to ask would be a scum read and someone you would like to know more about. That would facilitate a lot more discussion than only a town/scum read due to the fact that having a town read on someone doesn't do anything for discussion.


Both are ways to get discussion going, which one is the better just depends on the situation/person I guess. Sometimes people don't have strong scumreads but get a strong townvibe from someone, it's always good for discussion.

Think it just comes down to preference.

Fair enough. I would like to hear Aqua's reads if he's done dodging Rean (although to be fair to him as well he did mention Thrawn's vote as a town indicator for him).


4. The point is, I can't really understand how anyone could have such a strong scum read this early that he'd just tunnel that one person.

Regarding #3: Thanks I misread.

Regarding town players being paranoid and not early tunneling (due to suspecting each and everyone): Do you think either of the players went about the tunnel in a scummy way.
(For example: baiting, misrepresenting posts, lying)

Regarding Aquanim: I take it you do not agree with the Thrawn case. What do you make of Aquanim "fait accomplit" to not vote for Corazon and sit on the sidelines. Considering you have an expectation for town regarding early reads (being paranoid); what is your expectation for town during a shit-fight with votes being flung.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 15:09 GMT
#252
JJD,
The below is kinda moot: but Im just trying to prove a point. A response is probably not required.

I assume the answer is an implicit "YES", but what I would like to know is whether you agreed with Sciberbia comments based on the context they are referring to [red]at that point in time

I see you think Sciberbia is being candid and communicating clearly, but that does not mean the actual content is good/truthful.

For example:
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Is referring to:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!
I get you think Corazon is scum etc based on pages 5 to 13.

However, if the two quotes above are treated in isolation: do you think that 1 post from Corazon warrants the opinion/stance Sciberbia expressed?
This also ties in with my quotes that prior you took issue with.

[/b]
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 15:35 GMT
#255
Jampi, I like that post.

Also just wanted to say this is one of the best Day1 town atmospheres I have seen in regarding to getting straight into analysis/sharing reads.

Keep this up and a scum day1 lynch won't be too beyond us !

/thread captain (yes thats a dig @ Onegu)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 15:53 GMT
#257
Corazon
Quite a few have expressed concern over not being able to follow your thought process.

Please explain how you went from Sciberbia is bad town -> Sciberbia is scummy.
i.e. what triggers went in place for your read to upgrade from null -> scum.

Please do not just supply quotes from filter, as clearly, they are being misinterpreted by a majority.

Why am I confirmation biased (thus not scummy) for my "shitty casework?
Onegu seems to disagree.
+ Show Spoiler +
P.S: I did not know you had reading problems.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:10 GMT
#260
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.

Fair call. It was an interpretation from JJD that I did not think was absurd.

A better example of what I am referring to is the jampidampi post sandwiched between us.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:20 GMT
#264
JJD,

Rean can defend himself.

Regarding your last criticism, to me it reads he is saying a small lean towards scum (regarding Aquanim)??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:22 GMT
#267
On November 21 2013 01:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:10 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.

Fair call. It was an interpretation from JJD that I did not think was absurd.

A better example of what I am referring to is the jampidampi post sandwiched between us.

You mean the post where Jampi takes only two of my posts and tries to base my whole opinion on sciberia around them? Those posts were within my first 3-4 posts on the thread. I don't know where he is going with that.

Matey,
Keep talking to me like a douche and I can give it back to you equally.

Please, I dropped my vote off you yonks ago; I am trying to work together here.

JJD = JarJarDrinks

His post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=13#249

Interprets your posts as calling sciberbia "bad town" and then progressing to "scum".

Again, I think JJD interpretation is a fair call, so I would like to know the triggers between the accusations.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:40 GMT
#275
?? OK this is going over my head.

Corazon clearly states: it appears it is the latter
Inferring DIRECTLY that Sciberbia is scummy for it.

Previously: Corazon says to Scibs
"On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game."
I personally dont find this means Cora thinks the guy is "bad town". Its a statement that can be said to a town, null or even slightly scum read depending on your motive (i.e. to keep the peace)

Still: Where is the confusion coming from? I thought my question was straight-laced???
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:49 GMT
#280
On November 21 2013 01:46 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:40 Mocsta wrote:
I personally dont find this means Cora thinks the guy is "bad town". Its a statement that can be said to a town, null or even slightly scum read depending on your motive (i.e. to keep the peace)
OK now I'm confused because I thought you were basically agreeing w/ me here:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:22 Mocsta wrote:
JJD = JarJarDrinks

His post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=13#249

Interprets your posts as calling sciberbia "bad town" and then progressing to "scum".

Again, I think JJD interpretation is a fair call, so I would like to know the triggers between the accusations.

I agree that someone can come to that conclusion.

I personally do not agree with it.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:51 GMT
#281
On November 21 2013 01:43 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Sorry to repost this again but wanted everyone to know what post we're all talking about since there seems to be some dispute:
Show nested quote +
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
So Cora, who thinks sciberia was making a calculated scum play, decides that correct thing to say about it is to tell him to stop.

He then gives the person that he believes is smart scum advice on how to find scum.

This is twisting the facts.

This is the post that *JJD* thinks is corazon caling scibs "bad town"

Afterwards, he does the later post with rocking the boat suggest he is scummy.

Like, as the accuser how can *you* get this incorrect JJD.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:52 GMT
#283
On November 21 2013 01:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
*snip*
If I was Mocsta I would vote you for not reading.

I assume this is because you dont vote in the first 24hrs?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:52 GMT
#284
My mason (thrawn)

Do you get the impression onegu is just trying to shit the thread?
or am i taking this too personal?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:55 GMT
#286
On November 21 2013 01:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:43 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Sorry to repost this again but wanted everyone to know what post we're all talking about since there seems to be some dispute:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
So Cora, who thinks sciberia was making a calculated scum play, decides that correct thing to say about it is to tell him to stop.

He then gives the person that he believes is smart scum advice on how to find scum.


I think you are misreading like I did. That post where he gives advice to scib comes before Corazon says what he thinks about scib's alignment. That post is the first time he mentions scib. As mocsta said it does look like something corazon could say to a person he has any read on, if his goal behind saying that is as he states, to get good discussion flowing before starting the hardcore and what he thinks would be useless analysis. It wasn't until his next post about scib that he mentions that scib is either "new" or is "rocking the boat," he knows that scib isn't new therefore he concludes that scib is scummy. Initially I interpreted "rocking the boat" as "starting discussion = townie" but that was an incorrect interpretation. Obviously I might be putting townie words into a scum Corazon's mouth, but I do not think this is the case and I think I'm probably in a better position to clear up this confusion than he is.

LOl.. so the answer to my question

i.e "the trigger' is got to do with Scibs not being a newbie thus he concludes "rocking the boat" ==> shitting the thread

KK. fuck that took some effort.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 16:56 GMT
#287
On November 21 2013 01:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 01:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
*snip*
If I was Mocsta I would vote you for not reading.

I assume this is because you dont vote in the first 24hrs?

no it's because your case on me had way too many jabs calling me scummy for not reading

And onegu thinks no1 has called me a douche yet lol.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:07 GMT
#295
On November 21 2013 02:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Perhaps I could have come to that conclusion in-between my first post and the "rocking the boat" post.

Well this is what I'm trying to find out. Did you not have a scum read in the first post but did in the 2nd? If so, what changed yoiur mind?




On November 21 2013 01:51 Mocsta wrote:
This is the post that *JJD* thinks is corazon caling scibs "bad town"

Afterwards, he does the later post with rocking the boat suggest he is scummy.

Like, as the accuser how can *you* get this incorrect JJD.
My point is that I DON'T think he was saying sci was scummy in that first post. I think he was implying that he was town.

I'm not really asking why he would make that first post if he believes sci is scum. I'm asking what changed his mind in between. ANd judging by cora's response above, it looks like I interpreted both posts corectly.

GGRRR.. I don't really want to continue you as I am 100% confident this is painful to read for all observers.

Drop it, you are miscontruing evidence and its beyond tunneling now.

What you originally stated JJD
"So Cora, who thinks sciberia was making a calculated scum play, decides that correct thing to say about it is to tell him to stop." -
That post that you are referring to in red, is where you state he is calling him bad town; not calculated scum play.

Hence why I called you out for twisting the facts.

Even post-hoc you can't see this. Fuck me.. please just drop it (and the answers are on this page - 15)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:08 GMT
#296
Rayn
You just played with me as scum.

Please tell Onegu he is stupid, otherwise I vote you !!! muahahahah
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:18 GMT
#300
On November 21 2013 02:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 02:03 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yes because I am going to have a scum read on sciberia after 1 page of mostly joke posting...
But that was the post you were analysing when making your "Rock the Boat" read. So if that one page of joke posting didn't give you a scum read, then what did?

Sorry Moc but I think these are legit questions.

*Sigh* its OK, you are entitled to keep probing.

Its up to me to discern whether you are a conflicted townie doing your job, or scum trying to shit the thread away from Aquanim. (Hopefully now you can understand my point of view with telling you to drop it).

I get where you are coming from

From a post Scib makes stating Cora is most likely scum from page 1
Cora infers (in your opinion): Bad Town

A couple posts later, off the same post he comes to the conclusion: scummy
His trigger - scibs is not a newbie, thus, the discredit is *intentional*



In my opinion: I disagreed with the interpretation of calling scibs bad town.

Cora has answered this question for you a few times now as well, where he was just giving a "call out"



I know you have your interpretation, but this is going no where. Corazon is not going to admit he inferred bad town, whether its true (unlikely) or not (very likely).

Considering that was teh whole basis of your case on Corazon, its been rebutted. Please move on. and reconfirm position on Aquanim.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:21 GMT
#301
On November 21 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I've been following the game.

##Vote: Rean

I liked JJD's case. I'd like to add that at the start of the game Rean says he will not tolerate one-liners, spam, etc etc. Then he proceeds in giving half-arsed answers like "Moscta says this then that".

Mocsta seems quite town, he's driving the discussion and promoting good atmosphere. I like it. I also liked his questions to Aquanim at the start of the game. To me it looked like Aquanim was just asking some random questions from Mocsta and trying to burn his "post-limit" for nothing. I don't like Aquanim.

Nothing much to say about others, slightly leaning town on thrawn for same reasons as Mocsta. There was one post that bothered me about Corazon, it was the post where he talked about "how we should play". I felt like it didn't really say much and it felt somewhat forced to me.

Question:

Are Rean and Aquanim bussing?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:41 GMT
#307
On November 21 2013 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because i have not been reading your posts closely enough it seems like. :p
I liked your posts on Aquanim. Very much.

That much was clear hence my query on the bussing.

I am not satisfied.

Rean votes Aquanim. -- Rayn approves

Aquanim votes Rean. -- Rayn approves as he has voted Rean

Thrawn cases Aquanim -- Rayn approves

?? cases Rean. -- Rayn approves

Mocsta asks for town read -- Rayn approves

Thrawn asks for town read -- Rayn approves




Do you see a common denominator?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:42 GMT
#308
On November 21 2013 02:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well i like your points on Aquanim. Of course you are not obviously town but strongly yes.

WTF... me and thrawn are in sync.

I know I am accused of being cocky and then getting my tunnel on... but at least 3 times this game me and thrawn have typed out posts with similar motive within 2minutes of each other.

Thats more than a coincidence... we are thinking the same. If you think I am town, Thrawn is town.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:44 GMT
#310
Interesting tidbit to shit-stir

in 3 newbies vonthin was town....
suddenly replaces out with no posts
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:49 GMT
#314
On November 21 2013 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
thrawn one thing i don't understand is your questioning on sciberbia at the start of the game. I see nothing wrong with sciberbia's posts. Wanna explain that?

I cant find the post in question?

The closest I could find was:
On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote:
@thrawn
I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.
On November 20 2013 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why..
which seems contradictory to the above>??


As for my other post. feel free to disregard. I was getting stupid. You're right it makes no sense.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:54 GMT
#317
^^ thats the same fucking quote I posted?

how does that support your original question??

Thrawn never probed scibs??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 17:55 GMT
#318
JarJar
Not sure where you disappeared, but if you are lurking: can you please weigh in on Rayn.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:00 GMT
#321
My bad, sorry
twice in 10min. too tired, going to bed.
ciao.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:05 GMT
#327
On November 21 2013 03:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:01 thrawn2112 wrote:
Rayn I still don't see what problem you have with that post. It happened during a time when very few players had posted so posts like that are needed to get discussion going. You claim I was making a big deal about nothing. But did I? Have I continued harping on scib? Am I still making a big deal out of it? Have I ever once suggested that he's my main scumread? I am doing - have done none of those things and I think your question to me tells you even less information about my alignment than the question I asked of scib.

When i read your post I think you overplayed it. Made it look like sciberbia looks somehow bad from that post. Yeah i agree i could be wrongand that's probably nothing.

For that point in time he *did* look bad.

I called him out for similar reasoning.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:06 GMT
#328
On November 21 2013 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

Like what? "Yo i was just trolling and and you also might be scummy to not understand that".

That's nice way to turn "wanting to start the discussion" into "you look scummy".

Please.. i beg you.. if you are reading the game and now quoting as see stuff, avoid discussing corazon until you have read everything.

This specific phrase has been done to death.

*im begging you*
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:11 GMT
#330


I expect Rayn to probe Rean on that post by the time I wake up.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:47 GMT
#342
Wow Onegu really knows how to shit the thread.

Those reads were made void a long time ago.

If you want to stop wasting the time of a bunch of other people in the thread spoiler shit. There was no need for those reads to be unspoilered from their original state.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:50 GMT
#343
On November 21 2013 03:45 JarJarDrinks wrote:
K, just reread Aqua and I don't find him scummy at all.

Thats OK.
Our job is to convince you.

The pertinent question now is:
"Did you read the Thrawn case?" (on Aquanim)

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=10#183

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=10#188
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:52 GMT
#345
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing?

Hes scum claiming.

Its impossible for anyone that played with me in Mafia LXIII to think i am scum.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434275&user=Mocsta
for any doubters
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:53 GMT
#346
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing?
I'm all ears, im pretty tired but the gist went roughly as I remembered??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:59 GMT
#349
On November 21 2013 03:58 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:47 Mocsta wrote:
Wow Onegu really knows how to shit the thread.

Those reads were made void a long time ago.

If you want to stop wasting the time of a bunch of other people in the thread spoiler shit. There was no need for those reads to be unspoilered from their original state.



I just pushed quote and then wrote. And alot of what I wrote stands true as your motives for writeing them are still real and they havent changed. And your reasons for makeing those reads are scummy.

Chortle

You realise you are getting lynched Day2 after Aquanim?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 18:59 GMT
#351
On November 21 2013 03:59 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:52 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing?

Hes scum claiming.

Its impossible for anyone that played with me in Mafia LXIII to think i am scum.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434275&user=Mocsta
for any doubters



Dont talk about ongoing games.

Im flipped dipshit.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 19:04 GMT
#355
On November 21 2013 03:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:53 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing?
I'm all ears, im pretty tired but the gist went roughly as I remembered??

He is seeing something that's not there. I said what i thought was good in him and what i didn't understand and questioned it. That's it. If he somehow twists it into "rayn says what i want to hear" there is nothing i can say about it but "no",

I'm gonna keep this convo on the backburner.
Right now im definitely have too high a post count to overall thread posts.

Really need more input from guys like LoneMeow, jampidampi, scibs, rean

and as little as possible from onegu.


Seems to me: that the lynch will be between Rean/Aquanim as the town is quite divided.

When I wake up, for those who thik Aquanim is town it would be great if they can comment why the think the thrawn case is void - saying "aqua is town" is not going to help us prevent a mislynch. MORE INFO, MOAR POWR !
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 19:05 GMT
#356
On November 21 2013 04:00 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:59 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:58 Onegu wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:47 Mocsta wrote:
Wow Onegu really knows how to shit the thread.

Those reads were made void a long time ago.

If you want to stop wasting the time of a bunch of other people in the thread spoiler shit. There was no need for those reads to be unspoilered from their original state.



I just pushed quote and then wrote. And alot of what I wrote stands true as your motives for writeing them are still real and they havent changed. And your reasons for makeing those reads are scummy.

Chortle

You realise you are getting lynched Day2 after Aquanim?



Why not day 1 day one and aqua isnt scummy rean is so much worse than him.

I dont want to lynch you Day1. You could just be a doofus - you have the meta history for that.

And you not flipping has nothign to do with whether my flipped *scum* filter from lxiii is congruent with the filter from this game.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 19:07 GMT
#357
On November 21 2013 04:01 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:50 Mocsta wrote:
"Did you read the Thrawn case?" (on Aquanim)

Yeah, it seems like his reason is basically because aqua isn't scumhunting. I disagree. Aqua is all over Rean for similiar reasons that I (and several others) are. He agree's w/ me on the cora/sci situation, even if he doesn't quite think it makes cora scum like I do.

I mean, a huge part of thrawns case is that Aqua is accusing Rean. Which I think is a very town thing to do.

Accusing Rean of what?

Even Rayn acknowledges that Aqua is non-committal and leaves a door open to give weight to Corazon?




Look *maybe* you are right, and im wrong ( i need another re-read)

As a side question:
How would you feel if I thought you were the next towniest guy after thrawn?

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 23:05 GMT
#405
On November 21 2013 07:43 Bereft wrote:
hey guys, I'm at work right now, but I'll be home in about 4 hours. have only skimmed the last few pages from my phone, but currently this is where I'm at:

town lean on: thrawn, scib, dude whose name starts with jamp or something, onegu, rayn
null on: mocsta, JJD, lone meow
leaning scum on: rean, cora, aqua

unclear to me why onegu is obv scum/2nd day lynch according to moc. I'll take a closer look at his filter tonight along with my null to scum reads and update who I'm comfortable lynching day 1.

This is a bad post.

Who posts such big lists like this 1/2way day 1? Especially with no context.
Aside from me/thrawn not being the same alignment on the list which is odd, what i find odder is the town lean:

On November 21 2013 07:43 Bereft wrote:
town lean on: onegu
This makes zero sense.
I'm keen to hear some rational on this.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 23:07 GMT
#406
On November 21 2013 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's a joke.

Why are you OK with such a monstrosity of a post above (Referring to Bereft list contribution)

You of all players would have swarmed in to give a "grandpa mafia" speech.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 00:26 GMT
#431
On November 21 2013 08:54 Bereft wrote:
@mocsta if I've been away from the thread all day, I don't see what's wrong with giving a stream of consciousness update on what I'm thinking, especially since I promise to follow it up once I'm home. lurkers are annoying because you have no idea where their heads at. now you guys know mine. with rationale to follow later of course.

I'd be curious to know whether thrown is joking around with the obv town comment or if he's 100% serious and why.

Thats cool dude. I was more emphasizing that I will be keeping a keen eye out for the followup reads.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 00:34 GMT
#434
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.

Help me out please:
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

*snip*

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)

B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.

C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:
<To Corazon>
I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.

+ Show Spoiler [justification] +
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.

I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?

What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?

My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.

Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.

Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?

Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.

I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 00:41 GMT
#437
On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.

Help me out please:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

*snip*

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)

B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.

C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:
<To Corazon>
I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.

+ Show Spoiler [justification] +
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.

I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?

What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?

My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.

Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.

Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?

Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.

I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.


The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,

I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep

Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.

(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)

(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game

(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?

+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 00:46 GMT
#439
On November 21 2013 09:41 Aquanim wrote:
To elaborate further, the "this guy" I was referring to was myself.

That was transparent from the first explanation.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 00:51 GMT
#441
Unofficial Vote Count:


corazon: (1) thrawn, mocsta, sciberbia,

aquanim: (6) thrawn, mocsta, jampidampi, corazon, rean, rayn,

rean: (2) aquanim, JJD, rayn,


Yet to vote: Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:05 GMT
#444
Aqua
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20266365

please - I know its small and annoying but I am slightly brain dead right now. I need the help.



Rayn, I think this line of questioning needs to stop because its not tending towards an alignment indicative response.
You are trying to catch him out in a lie and both playing cat/mouse.

Similar to JJD with corazon tomorrow.

In the end, there is no need to argue with your scum read that they are scum when 50% of the thread is voting that scum read.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:10 GMT
#450
On November 21 2013 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mocsta i'm done arguing about it because Aquanim is giving different answers to the same question when i don't buy his first one. I am pretty sure i am right on this.

OK just checked OP: so we need one more vote to receive majority (7/12)

Carry on.

(I thought the deal was done, so this was just clogging up the thread but my bad)

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:11 GMT
#451
On November 21 2013 10:08 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 10:05 Mocsta wrote:
Aqua
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20266365

please - I know its small and annoying but I am slightly brain dead right now. I need the help.

Yeah, I'm getting to it. I'm reassessing my reads on Corazon and Rean as well, so it's taking some time.

lol. i didnt need a reassessment. i just needed confirmation of your stances in the past.

thanks anyways.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:31 GMT
#456
Ok Sciberbia, interesting tidbid.

Onegu is a useless town player that is quite lurky and never has town credit to push his reads.
As scum he maximises on that uselessness, but is also a major proponent of bussing.

Thus, the extension aligns somewhat with your expectation that Cora/Rean/Onegu is a team.

I will be keen to see your updated reads on those 2.


I dont consider myself to be bussed due to the way Onegu has gone about it - its been clearly a smear campaign. + my role PM naturally.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:33 GMT
#458
On November 21 2013 10:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim.
Here you seem to be agreeing with this:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...)
/rant

Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread.
On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon.

Why the contradiction?

This is the best case in this game.

Really, cause I think this case sucks.

@ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts.

But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread.


No need to be so condescending dude.

Rayn was trying to catch out Aquanim in a lie and tends to have very 'focused' reads anyways.

My question to you is whether you think Rayn is confirmation biased with this push; or intentionally painting his posts to suit his argument.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:42 GMT
#461
JJD
Everything I do, I do for the town

As an aside,
the discussion about post restriction is so stupid and non-alignment indicative and needs to be dropped.

- it was self-imposed
- i wasnt near my limit
- i didnt need a baby sitter telling me when i hit the cap.. i was tracking it myself

*if* and its a big *if*
I hit the post limit and stopped contributing: sure, then it becomes scummy
until then its completely USELESS discussing it.

+
Sciberbia has a point, onegu raises 3 people as scum and then uses such a useless/stupid metric (post restrictions) to blindly tunnel me. Then he puts all this effort into giving opposite reads to a spoilered post that was already void?
How has he contributed to lynching scum?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:46 GMT
#463
On November 21 2013 10:40 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 10:31 Mocsta wrote:
Ok Sciberbia, interesting tidbid.

Onegu is a useless town player that is quite lurky and never has town credit to push his reads.
As scum he maximises on that uselessness, but is also a major proponent of bussing.

Thus, the extension aligns somewhat with your expectation that Cora/Rean/Onegu is a team.

I will be keen to see your updated reads on those 2.


I dont consider myself to be bussed due to the way Onegu has gone about it - its been clearly a smear campaign. + my role PM naturally.


So having played with town Onegu before, what is your overall assessment of his scumhunting efforts so far this game? I would assume he generally I least tries to push his scumreads much more than he has today, right?

Hell even in the one game I played with him where he was scum I think his play was more pushy.
My metric is to never expect anything from a town or scum onegu.

However, I do not have a meta on my expectations for his post strategy because he is quite aware of himself and changes it up.

e.g. Hogwarts: He played to what I had thought to be his town meta, (yet he was scum).
Unfortunately, I am privy to information that I can't discuss (as per GM request) but it does also influence my read somewhat.

Regardless, my core issue with Onegu has to do with motive.

Hes trying to go through my posts and call me out as scum; yet he is not actually trying to secure my lynch, nor convince anyone else.

Its basically: here is my read on mocsta, take it or leave it.

I think this is poor play from town - if you are going out of your way to go against the grain (which is rean/aquanim) then common sense would be that you also campaign for that read.

This makes me lean towards Onegu intentionally focussing on me to shit up the thread and create a chaotic atmosphere.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 01:57 GMT
#466
On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?

##Unvote
After I get back from a meeting I will re-read the thread with an unbiased mind.

One thing not in your favour is that I personally do not like the combo of Rean/Cora, maybe 1 of them but not both (and you keep focusing attention on this)

I would expect if both are scum, and you/i/thrawn were town; they would have tried to combo up more. Instead it felt like two conversations in parallel
(you + rean) (thrawn + myself + cora)

Another thing not in your favour is acknowledgement of Onegu. (who I do think is scum)
On one hand it should be clear that he is a viable push for your safety today; but you are not taking that opportunity (even though you admit he is "scummi-ish"

Though you could contest that on the other hand you should be pushing your best scum read; considering the brevity of your situation (6/12 votes) this is silly - Onegu is apparently in top 3 and could secure your safety.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 03:15 GMT
#490
On November 21 2013 11:46 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.

If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do.
What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".

Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?


@rayn
I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.

Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.

+ Show Spoiler [Aquanim] +

On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.

On November 21 2013 09:19 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again?


Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because
1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot
2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response

My case on Rean is essentially that:
1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful.
2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads
3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.

4) He has shown little to no original thought


1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book?
2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice.
3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before)
4. See point 1.

You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.


Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.

You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.

As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.

@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?

And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.

On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.

Help me out please:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

*snip*

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)

B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.

C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:
<To Corazon>
I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.

+ Show Spoiler [justification] +
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.

I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?

What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?

My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.

Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.

Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?

Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.

I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.


The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,

I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep

Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.

(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)

(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game

(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?

+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.

To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.

Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.

with
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.

but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.

Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.

His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been:
1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to
2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move
3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do

Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.

They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.

As regards the other two:

JarJarDrinks

- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it.
- Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried.
- He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.

Conclusion: Likely town.

Onegu

- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously.
- Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh.
- Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points.
- Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.

Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.




At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you.
If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer.
I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish.
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?


On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...

Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.

(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)



Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?

Sorry to weigh in.

In my opinion: The action discussed above is null.

Both town and scum realise they need to continue pushing an agenda whilst under pressure.

It comes down to *HOW* aquanim is pushing his agenda.
I haven't made up my mind here, but this question above is what should be asked.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 03:23 GMT
#492
On November 21 2013 12:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 12:15 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:46 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.

If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do.
What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".

Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?


@rayn
I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.

Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.

+ Show Spoiler [Aquanim] +

On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.

On November 21 2013 09:19 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again?


Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because
1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot
2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response

My case on Rean is essentially that:
1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful.
2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads
3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.

4) He has shown little to no original thought


1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book?
2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice.
3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before)
4. See point 1.

You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.


Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.

You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.

As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.

@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?

And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.

On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.

Help me out please:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

*snip*

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)

B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.

C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:
<To Corazon>
I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.

+ Show Spoiler [justification] +
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.

I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?

What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?

My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.

Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.

Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?

Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.

I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.


The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,

I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep

Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.

(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)

(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game

(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?

+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.

To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.

Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.

with
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.

but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.

Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.

His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been:
1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to
2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move
3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do

Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.

They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.

As regards the other two:

JarJarDrinks

- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it.
- Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried.
- He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.

Conclusion: Likely town.

Onegu

- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously.
- Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh.
- Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points.
- Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.

Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.




At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you.
If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer.
I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish.
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?


On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...

Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.

(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)



Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?

Sorry to weigh in.

In my opinion: The action discussed above is null.

Both town and scum realise they need to continue pushing an agenda whilst under pressure.

It comes down to *HOW* aquanim is pushing his agenda.
I haven't made up my mind here, but this question above is what should be asked.

This is basically what i am trying to say, and i have given my opinion on it. Thank you o' wise Mocsta <3

Yes I know you are doing that Rayn.

In my opinion: just state the facts, and let them speak for themselves (i know easier said than done).

we need to trust in the town as this game is majority consensus to lynch (50% + 1). Hence, when you put a case out there, you need to have patience and let others respond. By upgrading your case 3 times before a response, it puts off people from commenting as its effectively "TL;DR"
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 03:39 GMT
#501
On November 21 2013 12:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 12:15 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:46 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.

If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do.
What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".

Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?


@rayn
I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.

Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.

+ Show Spoiler [Aquanim] +

On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.

On November 21 2013 09:19 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again?


Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because
1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot
2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response

My case on Rean is essentially that:
1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful.
2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads
3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.

4) He has shown little to no original thought


1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book?
2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice.
3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before)
4. See point 1.

You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.


Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.

You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.

As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.

@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?

And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.

On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.

Help me out please:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

*snip*

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)

B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.

C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:
<To Corazon>
I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.

+ Show Spoiler [justification] +
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.

I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?

What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?

My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.

Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.

Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?

Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.

I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.


The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,

I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep

Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.

(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)

(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game

(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?

+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.

To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.

Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.

with
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.

but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.

Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.

His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been:
1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to
2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move
3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do

Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.

They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.

As regards the other two:

JarJarDrinks

- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it.
- Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried.
- He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.

Conclusion: Likely town.

Onegu

- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously.
- Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh.
- Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points.
- Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.

Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.




At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you.
If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer.
I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish.
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?


On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...

Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.

(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)



Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?

Sorry to weigh in.

In my opinion: The action discussed above is null.

Both town and scum realise they need to continue pushing an agenda whilst under pressure.

It comes down to *HOW* aquanim is pushing his agenda.
I haven't made up my mind here, but this question above is what should be asked.

This is basically what i am trying to say, and i have given my opinion on it. Thank you o' wise Mocsta <3
P.S. having just played a game as scum and being tunneled by a townie

My response was to: brush off the allegations and then provide a counter-case.
When the tunnel was maintained, i resorted to discrediting the accuser, and then either calling the accuser town or scum (based on how i felt). This person I called tunneled town, thus i went back to pushing my counter-case. I disagree with Scibs. I certainly did care who was being lynched in my stead as my story had to be infallible.

As town, I would get butthurt and offend someone thought that i was scum when I am clearly playing town. I will certainly give a read on the accuser and then push a case on someone. I also dont care if my story is infallible or not. because i expect my townieness to shine through.

Aquanim is a different player, so the above may not apply but I like the way he is handling the tenacity of rayn. He could easily have lost his cool by now but he hasnt. I think scum would be absolutely sweating at this point, and Aqua doesnt look like hes breaking a sweat.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 03:44 GMT
#505
On November 21 2013 12:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Hey guys. I'm just chiming in to say that none of this has changed my reads at all. I'm still down for either an Aqua or Onegu lynch.

I would be also down for a LoneMeow/Bereft lynch if we are lynching based on contribution.

Everyone else I'm either town on or not confident enough to see hang today.
We have <24 hours to go, we should start consolidating.

This is a good post.

People can say that its generics and scum can suggest something pro-town here.

But its town because Corazon has put his heart on his sleeve and offered his OWN opinions whilst being protown.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 03:51 GMT
#509
Aquanim

Something fresh, Bereft finally contributed.

Thoughts?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 05:49 GMT
#546
Guys,

Im about 60% through my re-read (so up to about p20) - taking a breather and only skimmed the content since Bereft voted ?rean?



Firstly, we need to start consolidating a vote as 7 is required to secure a lynch.

Next, this is my group of strong town reads from p5 -> p20
{Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Rayn}

Yes, I do not think Aquanim is scum anymore. I think he has a different mentality and Thrawn and myself misinterpreted his intentions. Aquanim has actually been very open and transparent in a confused/wishy-washy manner; as opposed to wishy-washy in an intentionally misleading manner.

This is my group of tentative town reads from p5->p20 (i.e. people i dont have interest to lynch this cycle)
{Corazon, Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow}

Yes, Onegu is here. In hindsight it would be suicide as scum to come out and say he had a scum read on me and Thrawn. Unless his mission was to shit the thread, which I think is grasping at straws. I egged Onegu so will accept responsiblity for getting him to tunnel me.



Thus, this is my pile of shit left over: for todays lynch

{Rean, Sciberbia, jampidampi}

(Currently, i actually think these 3 *are* the scum team too)

Rean already has traction, so lets hit the 7 with him.

##Vote: Rean
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 05:55 GMT
#550
Corazon
Regarding why you did not vote Sciberbia

You stated that: early votes dont get traction so whats the point.


If that is the case, why did you ask Sciberbia to put his vote where his mouth is?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 05:56 GMT
#551
On November 21 2013 14:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also Moc, please stop talking about scum teams. You should know that association cases before flips are bad.

Who said I was making associations?

Those are my 3 scummiest reads independantly.

Aside from that, I think they also have odd interactions with each other.

jampidampi is in that pile 50% through Process of Elimination, 50% filter
Scibs is through filter
Rean is through filter

I thought you would be happy that you are in my town pile.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 06:03 GMT
#554
On November 21 2013 14:53 Bereft wrote:
hmm. why do you think scib is scum?

- Picking on Corazon early game, whilst ignoring you and I for similar toned posts
He phrases it as a conversation starter, but its pretty clear it is shit-stirring.

- Scibs also states he hates early game trolling, yet is contributing to a negative atmosphere.
THink about this: he stated Corazon was scum off what he defined later as 99% null, 1% scummy. Its clearly an over reaction and all it does is force people to point fingers at each other ==> atmosphere scum love.

- His case on Corazon is terrible.
#2 is acceptable because a majority misread corazon intentions
#1 is terrible because scibs is a hypocrite for singling out corazon but further, he is calling corazon scummy for being bad, there is nothing about scum motive in this point
#3 - is just a weak point
Overall this case is calling corazon a bad townie, and relies on the reader to assume the points are scummy.
This is a sign of a poor/half-assed case.. yet. scibs said i stole his thunder when i said corazon was scummy.
His actions are not congruent with filter.

- Scibs is suddenly suspicous of Rean, but asks such a baseless question that is not alignment-indicative. Again, this is not congruent with being a genuine scum read

- Scibs has a really odd timed delurked to chat with jampidampi. In this convo he avoids discussing the interplay between rean/aqua - which makes ZERO sense if rean was his 2nd scum read. This is a *very* bad point


In short: scibs is promoting a negative, finger-pointing atmosphere even though he resents trolling. This is scummy.
Scibs is an analytical player but his case on corazon had no conviction and relied ont he reader to fill in the gaps. This is scummy.
Scibs stance on players is not congruent with what he is asking the thread about (i.e. rean, even though he is his 2nd scum read). This is really scummy.

(stopped at page 20)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 06:24 GMT
#558
Corazon
Can you please join us on Rean.

I really don't think Aquanim is scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 06:27 GMT
#559
On November 21 2013 15:23 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
As I already mentioned Onegu does not play scum scared. Read his Desert Mini filter if you must. If I recall correctly he states there is a good chance hapa/marv are scum on day 1, and suggests they be analyzed.

Rean lynch is probably also OK. I'll consolidate on Rean if it comes down to him and Aquanim.

And I see you've written another case on me. Guess I'll respond to that next
I am aware of this, but I don't find it applicable?

Marv was scum; if anything scum has to keep that rouse up so people dont become suspicious why marv is alive and hapa is dead.

Are you suggesting that Onegu is bussing me? Otherwise, agian, i do not see the relevance.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 06:44 GMT
#565
My thoughts are that you are overly defensive in this retort.

I can easily add quotes to support my points. In the end I provided those points because bereft asked me for them. My vote today is on rean.

I'm quite content with you for a day2 lynch
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 06:47 GMT
#566
On November 21 2013 15:42 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 15:27 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 15:23 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
As I already mentioned Onegu does not play scum scared. Read his Desert Mini filter if you must. If I recall correctly he states there is a good chance hapa/marv are scum on day 1, and suggests they be analyzed.

Rean lynch is probably also OK. I'll consolidate on Rean if it comes down to him and Aquanim.

And I see you've written another case on me. Guess I'll respond to that next
I am aware of this, but I don't find it applicable?


It's applicable because your sole reason for your town-read on Onegu is that it would be "suicide" for him to call you and thrawn scum, assuming that he is scum and you are both town.

Given that you know he isn't scared of anyone as scum, doesn't that invalidate your reason for thinking he can't be scum? Please explain your thought process more.

Having balls doesn't mean putting them on display.

Good scum is about calculated risks.

The risk of bussing marv/hapa is in a completely different league to saying me/thrawn are scum.
The former is risk management and the latter *is* suicide proven by the majority chasing him for scum
Regardless, I did not pit him in my super town group. I still want to see him.contribute beyond a read on me. Right now he is a soft town lean.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 06:53 GMT
#568
Lynching me lol

Chortle
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 08:25 GMT
#570
Read the whole game. Updated reads list:

The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}

The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}

The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}



Key swaps:
Sciberbia: Has nothing to do with comments before. Has to do with how he was interpreting Aquanim. If Rean flips scum, Sciberbia comes out looking pretty good for trying to get focus off Aquanim. Will have to do a specific filter-dive to firm this read up. Content in the middle.

Rayn: I have loved everything he did (UNTIL) he dropped his vote on Rean out of nowhere. This just makes no sense given the back/n/forth.

Corazon: I have two major issues with him
(1) Hes only accusing people that have attacked him.
(2) He is refusing to answer JJD question about the first post which I EMAND* an answer for

To which I will expound:
On November 21 2013 01:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Perhaps I could have come to that conclusion in-between my first post and the "rocking the boat" post.
On November 21 2013 02:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Well this is what I'm trying to find out. Did you not have a scum read in the first post but did in the 2nd? If so, what changed yoiur mind?
On November 21 2013 02:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yes because I am going to have a scum read on sciberia after 1 page of mostly joke posting...
Corazon bluntly states that is it ridiculous to consider Sciberbia scum from the page 1 (which is 5).

The truth lies in the filter however:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

This quote led to a lot of confusion.
Corazon later confirms the intent of rocking the boat was to call Sciberbia scummy.
On November 21 2013 01:25 cDgCorazon wrote:
The first post (about "rocking the boat") said that sciberia is either new to this game or him "rocking the boat" is scummy.

Is it not obvious to you that this isn't sciberia's first game? I said he was good at this game and that I thought he was making a calculated play with "rocking the boat".


What we have is Corazon caught in a lie.

First he calls Sciberbia scummy for 1 post.
More recently he states he can't have thought Scibs was scummy for that 1 post.

JJD has to ask *repeatedly* for such a simple answer and Corazon continuously refuses to comply.
Corazon *knows* he is caught in a lie - a scummy lie.[/
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 08:29 GMT
#571
On November 21 2013 15:20 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count


cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu
Aquanim (4): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneet
Rean (4): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta
Onegu (1): sciberbia
Bereft (1): raynpelikoneet



No one is currently set to be lynched.

12 players alive means 7 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let us know.

Day 1 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)

Guys we need to consolidate onto Rean with 7 votes.

3 more to hop along please to reach the majority requirement of 7 voters.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 08:44 GMT
#573
Thrawn
Pls have a read of I think p26

Rayn has a go at rean and then a handful of posts later drops it suddenly stating rean is making sense.
I'm keen to know whether you think this is natural.

Will be important to also consider his vote on bereft around p28
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 10:29 GMT
#578
I get that a town Corazon can lie about that type of stuff.

It's why rean is still best lynch for today
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:27 GMT
#601
On November 21 2013 22:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mocsta what's your opinion of thrawn's post about me?

I took issue when you had no opinion on the bussing.

Its not something I would vote you for, but its something that raises suspicion.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:30 GMT
#606
On November 21 2013 23:02 jampidampi wrote:
Aquanim
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
...

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

First of all, you fail at reading:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
...

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

Second, you didn't even address the point I hold against you in that post. You basicly admit that it has no other motive than making me look worse.

Aqua is also very conscious about his image:
+ Show Spoiler +

Click on the spoilers.
On November 21 2013 11:15 Aquanim wrote:
...

At present I am explaining exactly what my point of view is: namely, that while Onegu is an acceptable lynch I consider Rean to be a more likely one to flip scum. Lying about my reads for the purposes of being able to jump onto the Onegu wagon right now would not reflect well on me.

...

On November 21 2013 13:11 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 13:04 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:23 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:03 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.


So. Damn. wishy-washy. Flips his stance 3 times over 2 lines. And as Aquanim points out (in another good post), why is Rean complaining about Onegu being an 'easy lynch target' if his posting is 'certainly scummy'? Honestly I think there's a good chance they are both scum.


Sigh....I'm not flipping stances. I have a single stance, and I explained it quite clearly: Onegu's posting is shit and not helping i any way, and it's scummy as fuck but it can also means he's just stupid. Considering multiple possibilities isnt wishy-washy, its called not drawing conclusions too soon.

And the easy lynch target is because I felt and still feel like Aqua is scum and the Onegu thing was a convenient alternative for scum.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it but it feels too convenient for my tastes.

I don't see you "considering multiple possibilities" with regards to my alignment. I know that everything I've done this game has a town motivation, so I'm disturbed that you don't even think that's a possibility.


On November 21 2013 11:56 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
...
Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
...

@Rean
How likely do you think Onegu is to be scum and why? If you think he's likely scum, why are you suspicious of Sciberbia making a case against him?

Also, why do you think that Sciberbia's motives are doubtful for going after someone already mentioned? AFAIK the people who haven't been "mentioned" so far are either obvtown or so lurky there is no case to be made against them.


If it wasn't for the timing of it all, I'd say very likely. His posts are bad and not contributing anything meaningful at all, throwing around scumreads while not doing anything at all with them.
I'm suspicious of Sciberbia in case Scib is scum trying to get the heat off you and decided Onegu was an easy target with how he was posting and Mocsta already going after him.

Do you have any reason to believe this explanation is more likely than Sciberbia believing I'm town and looking for an actual scum wagon to run? By your own admission Onegu is quite scummy.


I think it's weird he's been doing the same thing over and over: joining in on starting bandwagons. And if people are so lurky you can't say anything about them they should be pressured, not ignored.

I think you're misrepresenting Sciberbia's play here. Sure he is expressing suspicions on a player who has previously been suspected. What you've left out is:

1) Most people in the game have been suspected at some point. Once again, who could Sciberbia think is scum who doesn't fit this criteria?
2) It's hardly like Sciberbia was sheeping Mocsta - in fact, Mocsta was voting for me at the time, and Sciberbia did most of the legwork in actually writing up a case and putting down a vote.

If you're town I honestly don't know how you believe this about Sciberbia's play.


1. I did consider multiple possibilities but the more I thought about it the more you being scum made sense to me over you being town, and rereading only reconfirmed it for me.
2. Yes, my suspicions of you along with not really liking Sciberbia's play make me prefer lynching you over Onegu despite his scumminess.
3. It just feels off. Mocsta starts suspecting Onegu while still voting for you, and in comes Scib with a case to take the heat of you and switch it to Onegu. But maybe I'm trying too hard to make everything fit with my suspicions of you...

So you "thought about it" and that convinced you I was scum? I'd like to hear some more specifics about that. What exactly in your rereading confirmed my alignment in your view?

+ Show Spoiler +
It is my view that holding players accountable for their stated opinions and requiring evidence is an important part of maintaining a productive town atmosphere.


On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
...

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


...


Still happy with my vote on Aqua.
And why is being conscious of your image scummy?
Town want to survive as well.

Your tone doesn't match the effort put to prove Aquanim is scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:35 GMT
#611
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.

Wow.. we are not on the same page.

The difference is Aquanim is not confident but continues to be an open book - allowing you to keep provoking him.
Rean on the other hand answers the questions to the point and delivers nothing more.

I know i find the latter more scummy, so should you.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:36 GMT
#612
On November 21 2013 23:32 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:30 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:02 jampidampi wrote:
Aquanim
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
...

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

First of all, you fail at reading:
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
...

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

Second, you didn't even address the point I hold against you in that post. You basicly admit that it has no other motive than making me look worse.

Aqua is also very conscious about his image:
+ Show Spoiler +

Click on the spoilers.
On November 21 2013 11:15 Aquanim wrote:
...

At present I am explaining exactly what my point of view is: namely, that while Onegu is an acceptable lynch I consider Rean to be a more likely one to flip scum. Lying about my reads for the purposes of being able to jump onto the Onegu wagon right now would not reflect well on me.

...

On November 21 2013 13:11 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 13:04 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:23 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:03 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.


So. Damn. wishy-washy. Flips his stance 3 times over 2 lines. And as Aquanim points out (in another good post), why is Rean complaining about Onegu being an 'easy lynch target' if his posting is 'certainly scummy'? Honestly I think there's a good chance they are both scum.


Sigh....I'm not flipping stances. I have a single stance, and I explained it quite clearly: Onegu's posting is shit and not helping i any way, and it's scummy as fuck but it can also means he's just stupid. Considering multiple possibilities isnt wishy-washy, its called not drawing conclusions too soon.

And the easy lynch target is because I felt and still feel like Aqua is scum and the Onegu thing was a convenient alternative for scum.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it but it feels too convenient for my tastes.

I don't see you "considering multiple possibilities" with regards to my alignment. I know that everything I've done this game has a town motivation, so I'm disturbed that you don't even think that's a possibility.


On November 21 2013 11:56 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
...
Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
...

@Rean
How likely do you think Onegu is to be scum and why? If you think he's likely scum, why are you suspicious of Sciberbia making a case against him?

Also, why do you think that Sciberbia's motives are doubtful for going after someone already mentioned? AFAIK the people who haven't been "mentioned" so far are either obvtown or so lurky there is no case to be made against them.


If it wasn't for the timing of it all, I'd say very likely. His posts are bad and not contributing anything meaningful at all, throwing around scumreads while not doing anything at all with them.
I'm suspicious of Sciberbia in case Scib is scum trying to get the heat off you and decided Onegu was an easy target with how he was posting and Mocsta already going after him.

Do you have any reason to believe this explanation is more likely than Sciberbia believing I'm town and looking for an actual scum wagon to run? By your own admission Onegu is quite scummy.


I think it's weird he's been doing the same thing over and over: joining in on starting bandwagons. And if people are so lurky you can't say anything about them they should be pressured, not ignored.

I think you're misrepresenting Sciberbia's play here. Sure he is expressing suspicions on a player who has previously been suspected. What you've left out is:

1) Most people in the game have been suspected at some point. Once again, who could Sciberbia think is scum who doesn't fit this criteria?
2) It's hardly like Sciberbia was sheeping Mocsta - in fact, Mocsta was voting for me at the time, and Sciberbia did most of the legwork in actually writing up a case and putting down a vote.

If you're town I honestly don't know how you believe this about Sciberbia's play.


1. I did consider multiple possibilities but the more I thought about it the more you being scum made sense to me over you being town, and rereading only reconfirmed it for me.
2. Yes, my suspicions of you along with not really liking Sciberbia's play make me prefer lynching you over Onegu despite his scumminess.
3. It just feels off. Mocsta starts suspecting Onegu while still voting for you, and in comes Scib with a case to take the heat of you and switch it to Onegu. But maybe I'm trying too hard to make everything fit with my suspicions of you...

So you "thought about it" and that convinced you I was scum? I'd like to hear some more specifics about that. What exactly in your rereading confirmed my alignment in your view?

+ Show Spoiler +
It is my view that holding players accountable for their stated opinions and requiring evidence is an important part of maintaining a productive town atmosphere.


On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
...

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


...


Still happy with my vote on Aqua.
And why is being conscious of your image scummy?
Town want to survive as well.

Your tone doesn't match the effort put to prove Aquanim is scum.


When making posts, townies don't think "hmm, what if someone suspects me from this post later, better write a pre-emptive defence in case that happens".

Perhaps, but are you considering yourself in aquanim shoes were all the active posters were targeting him?

I think this would naturally make someone defensive.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:41 GMT
#617
On November 21 2013 23:29 cDgCorazon wrote:
I ain't voting for Rean, Moc. I don't think it is a good lynch and I would need to be handed a very convincing argument to do so.
What it comes down to now is whether you are going to support a town circle or not.
7 are needed to vote, and the closest person to 7 is Rean.

There is more information to be gained from a Rean lynch/mislynch than a no-lynch.

Do you honestly think you can sway enough people for who-ever your counter wagon is?

If not, the townie thing to do is secure a Rean lynch - whether you like it or not.


When you say things like, "Corazón has only attacked people who attack him", it makes me less likely to listen to you because you're throwing shit around when you say that. Of course I've only attacked people who have attacked me because EVERYONE has attacked me. Do you not realize this?
I dont think all 11 people were after you. And I dont care if you won't listen to me, because your "thumb stuck in your bum" is making it very difficult to read you.
I want to think you are town, but the emotional rouse is such a convenient avenue to hide behind.
It should be obvious I am willing to give you a fair go, so if you are town, snapping back at me is NOT going to help *your* situation

Also Moc, the time for talking about me being scum without voting for me is past. Either vote for me or stop talking about me.
You probably could be lynched today with majority if we pushed that way. Are you sure you want this?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:43 GMT
#619
On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.

Wild theory #1
(stated previously)

Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town.
Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting

Wild Theory #2
Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT.
After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team.
backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:47 GMT
#625
On November 21 2013 23:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:35 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.

Wow.. we are not on the same page.

The difference is Aquanim is not confident but continues to be an open book - allowing you to keep provoking him.
Rean on the other hand answers the questions to the point and delivers nothing more.

I know i find the latter more scummy, so should you.

So when everyone has a townread on Aquanim (besides me - from the influential players), mafia!Rean continues to tunnel on Aqua and does not consider any other player worth lynching?

In comparsion Aquanim is open for lynching for anyone who was suspicious for thread sentiment.

Yo Mocsta you need to learn on how to play scum if you think that's a good way to go for mafia!Rean. Also those dudes who play live mafia have way better "on the fly bullshitting capabilities". Also Aquanim says very little in his posts.

But i don't care, i just lynch thrawn on D2 if he let's this lynch happen. I am telling you Rean is town and if thrawn is incapable of seeing that he is most likely scum.

Actaully, I am not so firm on my read on Rean without a reconfirmation of facts.

Frankly, the replace out of LoneMeow has tilted me a bit and i would consider lynching HF this cycle.

P.S. what you wrote above is misconstruing the thread. It certainly did not go down that way.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:52 GMT
#630
You know what Rayn.

I think we should oblige.

##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:53 GMT
#633
On November 21 2013 23:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
Aqua/Onegu/Bereft. Your pick, Moc.

Why is Bereft here?

Because of Rayns dumb filtering argument?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:54 GMT
#635
On November 21 2013 23:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
rayn i'm sorry but

A) you have claimed scum with basically every post you've made recently
B) i don't care too much for a lot of other things in your filter
C) I am perfectly fine with policy lynching someone who claims he will spam the thread if the lynch doesn't go his way

actually on point C don't even think it's policy lynching because making threats like that is basically scum claiming

Hes playing the martyr card in the hopes that people will WIFOM him town.

its why he may as well be rid of now.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:56 GMT
#638
Aqua/jampi
Please weigh in on Rayn

Voting him or not?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:57 GMT
#642
Im also surprised rayn hasnt jumped all over me for suggesting we lynch HF this cycle.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:58 GMT
#643
On November 21 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mocsta answer my case on you. Please.

Where is it dear?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 14:59 GMT
#646
Awesome thats 4 votes.
Onegu had a read on rayn so I expect that to be 5 votes.

We only need 2 more votes for a majority.
C'mon jampidampi !
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:01 GMT
#648
On November 21 2013 23:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
7 are needed to vote, and the closest person to 7 is Rean.

There is more information to be gained from a Rean lynch/mislynch than a no-lynch.

Do you honestly think you can say enough people for who-ever your counter wagon is?

If not, the townie thing to do is secure a Rean lynch - whether you like it or not.

On November 21 2013 23:52 Mocsta wrote:
You know what Rayn.

I think we should oblige.

##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn

I knew you would claim scum. <3
I don't even care if you lynch me but i suggest everyone looks at this post when i flip!!!

I just proved you wrong. And you are going against what you suggested ~10min ago.

OK, guilty as charged.
Apologies, I was confused - I thought you said you wrote a case?
I didnt see anything about why this is indicative of a scum mindset.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:07 GMT
#655
On November 22 2013 00:03 jampidampi wrote:
I need some time to make any sense of this rayn mess, give me a moment to reread.

hmmmm

<I am going to the QT to talk to Rayn about how to best perform damage control>

but watevz

For a guy that displayed shrewd analysis with the corazon read (i.e. immediately being able to identify emotional tunnel etc) its disconcerting how hard you are holding onto this Aquanim line of questioning.

The original query to you was "fair game".
You wrote he was leaning town (slightly) yet identified two quotes that you said had no substance. The message is unclear -- yet you keep trying to shit the thread with this.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:10 GMT
#657
On November 22 2013 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 00:01 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
7 are needed to vote, and the closest person to 7 is Rean.

There is more information to be gained from a Rean lynch/mislynch than a no-lynch.

Do you honestly think you can say enough people for who-ever your counter wagon is?

If not, the townie thing to do is secure a Rean lynch - whether you like it or not.

On November 21 2013 23:52 Mocsta wrote:
You know what Rayn.

I think we should oblige.

##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn

I knew you would claim scum. <3
I don't even care if you lynch me but i suggest everyone looks at this post when i flip!!!

I just proved you wrong. And you are going against what you suggested ~10min ago.

OK, guilty as charged.
Apologies, I was confused - I thought you said you wrote a case?
I didnt see anything about why this is indicative of a scum mindset.

Your first suggestion is scummy as hell. You are shutting down discussion because people "need to consolidate". The suggestion is also incorrect and that's what i wanted to show you.
##Unvote:

I suggest, Mocsta, ifyou are town you never make those kinda bullshit suggestions in a game where i am playing. I also suggest you don't make bullshit cases based on why someone might have been replaced out of a game and how someone might not have read scum QT or other bullshit. I could make a case on you where i say "WILD THEORY; Mocsta has played so bad as scum lately so he needs to change his playstyle completely to survive even N1. Therefore he is scum hue hue." Do you see why your posts on the last page are terribad? Please stop if you are town.

Now i do not want to lynch Rean. I think he has been genuine and cooperative and stated clearly who he wants to lynch on D1. That's more than 8 other players in this game have done.

Now can we discuss the lynch?
LOL.. this ties in with my post to jampidampi so bad.

My vote remains.

This is such a scummy backpedal. Yes Rayn, the martyr failed.

P.S. The consolidation request on Corazon was very townie to ask.
Im going to bed soon, and when I wake up 1 hr before the lynch.
I want to go to bed knowing town is in a secure place.

I know it is now with your lynch.

/night
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:17 GMT
#662
On November 22 2013 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I could lynch jampidampi. His reasoning for voting for Aquanim is no longer valid unless he debunks Aqua's defense, which he has not done. When he comes back he doesn't update his read on his top scumread, instead he throws some irrational posts on him.

##Vote: Jampidampi

I'm not 100% certain on this actually.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091&user=jampidampi&view=all
This is the only game I have played with jampi.

I didnt check the filter, but I remember specifically as town he tunneled the shit out of me even though I was essentially confirmed town.
He eventually rage-quit before the game finished.

The point is, he has a meta for tunnelling relentlessy, so the above may not be enough to justify a vote.

Seems like an easy target rayn as well.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:18 GMT
#663
On November 22 2013 00:14 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 00:07 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 00:03 jampidampi wrote:
I need some time to make any sense of this rayn mess, give me a moment to reread.

hmmmm

<I am going to the QT to talk to Rayn about how to best perform damage control>

Rayn has some weird things as town in the past, though mostly related to fake claiming (Nuclear Winter for example).

Show nested quote +
For a guy that displayed shrewd analysis with the corazon read (i.e. immediately being able to identify emotional tunnel etc) its disconcerting how hard you are holding onto this Aquanim line of questioning.

The original query to you was "fair game".
You wrote he was leaning town (slightly) yet identified two quotes that you said had no substance. The message is unclear -- yet you keep trying to shit the thread with this.

Both you and Aquanim need to read more carefully. First of all, I highlighted one post that "didn't say anything with a substance". My point about Aqua is about the motive behind his post, and he seems to continue missunderstanding that. He has yet to refute my actual point, instead trying to make my point appear to be something which it isn't and refuting that.

Ok, please spell out for me the issue of motive?

If I think the question is fair to ask, is my motive aligned with aqua?

??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:21 GMT
#666
On November 22 2013 00:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Considering not voting for me by the last 10 posts is townie? Really Mocsta everyone should have instantly put their votes on me based purely on policy until i stop or if don't lynch me.

Him "thinking about the situation" makes zero sense.

I dunno.

I think scum would 100% jump onto a gravy train like that.

I could see a town being reserved given some specific criteria are met (and its unclear whether they apply to jampi)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:24 GMT
#668
On November 22 2013 00:20 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Jampidampi that's a really bad post and there was no townie motivation behind my last 10 posts (towards anyone else than Mocsta - who i should probably realize is incapable to see the point anyways, my bad) because that's what i was trying to do.

I can't find any reasons why you should have not voted for me unless you know i am town and therefore scum.

Pulling off some sort of ridiculous trap attempt would not be beyound you.

What i'm seeing currently is

<qt damge control report>

Rayn: I am so fucked and gonna get lyched... k, thsi is what we do.. are you listening
jampidampi: Roger that
Rayn: I am gonna bus you like a mother f #$%#$
jampidampi: OK i will follow your lead




If its not clear, this response to rayn feels unnatural and like a dead-statement.
What are you achieving with this prod?

P.S. your vote is still on aquanim.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:25 GMT
#669
On November 22 2013 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I don't like anty lynch aside from Rayn or Rean here. Rayn made his move and got all the votes off Rean. If we switch to someone else, we're letting him dictate the vote. If we move off Rayne, they need to go back to Rean.

Unashamed +1
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:44 GMT
#679
On November 22 2013 00:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn, you don't need to explain to me how you feel. I can read.

We were all happily discussing a potential Rean lynch and all of a sudden, you and Mocsta get in this argument and now we have no chance at consolidation. It just derailed town. How do you think we are going to lynch scum if your egos get in the way?
Why do you think that is the situation at hand?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:51 GMT
#685
jampidampi
I see where you are coming from now - I forgot about that exchange.

Ummm.. this may be one of those phrases that does not translate well from verbal -> written communication.
I think that italicized sentence can be taken completely differently depending on how "constructive" is spoken (i.e. tone)

Frankly, if *I* said this to you, your interpretation is 100% correct - as I am often sarcastic/spiteful like that.
Aquanim may have actaully complemented you by saying you having given constructive feedback??? (Im playing NFS: RIvals, so dont feel like checking aqua filter to confirm his stance.. sorry)



As for the second part where he phrases you a question.
I still thiink the question is fair (but as you stated, is not the issue at hand)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 15:54 GMT
#687
Its 2am for aquanim , which means its prob lunch time for bereft

OR they could be threading diving.

Grasping here rayn.. majorly.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 16:00 GMT
#691
Calling you out is completely different to sugesting scum disappeared from the thread.

Knock it off. I vote for who I want to.

If you are town, you may as well start building ya cases on 3 people. Cos you are flipping in 9 hrs.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 16:08 GMT
#695
Im willing to cop flak if you flip town Rayn.

My vote is 80% because are scum, and 20% policy.


Your sudden change in behavior from yesterday has yet to be explained; and in combination with your martyr attempt before. My vote remains.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 16:13 GMT
#698
On November 22 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I started playing, that's the explanation.

Funny that.

Town when not playing
and scummy when you start playing.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 16:49 GMT
#713
On November 22 2013 01:41 cDgCorazon wrote:
You two are terrible. Why do we have to lynch Rayn just to keep the peace? This town atmosphere just went down the drain because Mocsta's and Rayn's egos decided they did not want to coexist and now we are either going to lynch someone who is probably townie or have to deal with this for the entire game.

Thx guys. Thx a lot T.T

I'll decide on my vote closer to the deadline. For now it's still on Aqua

What are you trying to achieve here Corazon?

(1) To call this a battle of ego shows you are not reading the thread at all.

(2) If you acknowledge Aqua is unlikely to be voted, why do you have to refrain from taking a stand - thus identifying your vote preference?

(3) Is Aqua your best read?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 16:57 GMT
#717
On November 22 2013 01:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, don't tell me this isn't a battle of egos. Your confirmation bias is showing. I'm just not happy with the fact that you are throwing a Rayn lynch in my face and not going with someone who has played scummier overall (such as the three people I mentioned before).

This whole Rayn crap is stupid. It should have never been a thing in the first place.
You have my full attention Corazon.

Please detail my C.B., and why Rayns behaviour from what, 2hrs ago was acceptable.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 17:06 GMT
#723
On November 22 2013 01:52 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 21 2013 12:15 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:46 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 11:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sciberbia. I have a serious question to you.

If you were town and being voted 24h into day phase what would you do? scumhunt? try to find scum? That's what i would do.
What does Aquanim do? "Mocsta and sciberbia, ask me anything and i'll answer".

Is this in your mind a legit way to prove your towniness if you think (as Aquanim does) you have answered to every accusation pointed towards you?


@rayn
I completely disagree with you about this. The way that Aquanim has continued to push his reads in spite of being on the back foot is a townie point in his favor. You snipped the bottom 2 lines of a huge post in which Aquanim was scumhunting and concluded that he wasn't scumhunting.

Look at the following posts. It's not like all he's doing is defending himself and reacting to other people's questions.

+ Show Spoiler [Aquanim] +

On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.

On November 21 2013 09:19 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again?


Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because
1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot
2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response

My case on Rean is essentially that:
1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful.
2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads
3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.

4) He has shown little to no original thought


1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book?
2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice.
3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before)
4. See point 1.

You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.


Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you.

You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.

As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.

@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?

And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.

On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So, these votes on me.

Jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?


Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question.

Rean
I already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim



Some other things I really want to adress:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?


That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

Okay.
1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that.
2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do.

Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

Rayn
I don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote.

If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer.
Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you.

Help me out please:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.

*snip*

1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum

and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon".

A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense)

B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind.

C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:
<To Corazon>
I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently.

+ Show Spoiler [justification] +
Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.

I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?

What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?

My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.

Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.

Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me?

Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best.

I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.


The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
OK,

I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep

Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read.

(1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs)

(2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game

(3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else?

+ please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.

To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.

Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.

with
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.

but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.

Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.

His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.

Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.


As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been:
1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to
2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move
3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do

Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.

They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.

As regards the other two:

JarJarDrinks

- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it.
- Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried.
- He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.

Conclusion: Likely town.

Onegu

- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously.
- Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh.
- Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points.
- Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.

Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.




At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you.
If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer.
I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish.
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?


On November 21 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
...
The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
...

Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.

(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)



Read the above quotes. Does it really look like Aquanim has stopped pushing his reads?

Sorry to weigh in.

In my opinion: The action discussed above is null.

Both town and scum realise they need to continue pushing an agenda whilst under pressure.

It comes down to *HOW* aquanim is pushing his agenda.
I haven't made up my mind here, but this question above is what should be asked.

This is basically what i am trying to say, and i have given my opinion on it. Thank you o' wise Mocsta <3

Yes I know you are doing that Rayn.

In my opinion: just state the facts, and let them speak for themselves (i know easier said than done).



we need to trust in the town as this game is majority consensus to lynch (50% + 1). Hence, when you put a case out there, you need to have patience and let others respond. By upgrading your case 3 times before a response, it puts off people from commenting as its effectively "TL;DR"


Something seems off about this post, first sometimes you have to hammer town into looking at your case, rayn maybe does this a bit much, but this post is almost like make a case and shutup about it so it falls to the side.

Dude, rayn isnt hammering town into that case at all.

He is repeating the same argument over and over again until the other party gives up.

Yes, i was politely suggesting he shut up. Is your issue that I was not direct about it?
If so, the whole action is not even alignment indicative. Some people have to be spoken to differently.
It is often referred to as people skills or understanding EQ.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 17:17 GMT
#729
On November 22 2013 02:05 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 01:13 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I started playing, that's the explanation.

Funny that.

Town when not playing
and scummy when you start playing.

This post is an example of confirmation bias. I can't copy/paste because I'm on my phone but the two posts above this in your filter are also examples of confirmation bias.

Rayn's behavior was not acceptable but I don't think he should be lynched today for it. The problem with this town is that they fixate on someone's behavior in a very small time window and forget about everything else they have done in the game. This was a problem when people continued to attack me for my exchange with sci (Including you, Moc) for almost 30 hours without thinking about what I have done since then.
It is the same with Rayn: if you took a look at the big picture and analyze Rayn's filter throughout the entire game, would you still think he is scum? I would not say that he is "100% a good lynch candidate" upon looking at his entire filter.

My phone is about to die. Be back later.

It seems we are at an impasse.

The only people I am willing to lynch are: Rayn, Rean, HolyFlare
The only people you are willing to lynch into are: Aqua, Onegu, Bereft

Corazon, whats more important to you. Standing by your top scum read; or lynching for information?


I find your position ironic regarding looking at the big picture.
The post you quote clearly states I felt rayn was town prior to the "incident"

The incident being:
On November 21 2013 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Mocsta

Now he's just full of shit.

Today you are gonna lynch me or Mocsta. If you lynch me then you lynch Mocsta on D2. Thanks.
If you don't lynch me or Mocsta today i will spam the thread with bullshit as long as i live like he is doing atm.


The point Corazon is: before this post did you have a suspicion I was scum?

If not, what is the point of this post? Ask yourself that

Rayn can spew as many excuses as he wants to post-hoc to justify that behaviour; however, he can not change that it occurred.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 17:20 GMT
#732
Rayn
Have you been mislynched before?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 17:24 GMT
#738
On November 22 2013 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 02:20 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
Have you been mislynched before?

You claimed scum too. Hilarious. :D

Answer the question.

It had a purpose.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 17:37 GMT
#742
On November 22 2013 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No actually this is the best way to go:

##Unvote:
##Vote: raynpelikoneet


This proves Mocsta and Bereft are scum. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade.
I'll make a case on the third one near deadline. I gotta go move my little brother now. cya later.

God your annoying...

I asked the question because I am in a headspace where I can look at you without emotion.
I am trying to figure out the motives for your continued trolling since your "confrontation" vote.

Considering a majority hasn't been reached & people reading (Onegu/jampi) haven't voted - you are not under a *great* deal of pressure.

As town, under thread of a mislynch: I would expect you to pull the finger out and start producing cases.

You already said you don't want me dead; yet keep going out of your way to antagonise me.
Unless you think I am scum, I don't see how your actions can line up with a town mentality.


Small tidbit, whilst looking for Rayn in the TL db to check mislynch history, i saw Rean:

Insane Mafia 2 Town Police Tough Guy Killed Night 2
TL Mafia XXXVIII Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 3
Sleeper Cell Mafia Mafia Sleeper Agent Modkilled Day 1
Pick Their Power Mafia Town Psychic Survived

I know Sleepcell is from 2011 but check teh filter
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416&user=Rean&view=all
He has like 2 posts, but they are SO aggressive.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186&user=Rean&view=all
In Pick Their Poewr he is quite casual and short posts.


Rean gameplay doesnt really fit into either of those filters + its from 2011 and things change.
BUT, what i do think is that it shows quite clearly his mentality when scum.

Hesistant to talk, and high-strung/angry.

I think Rean is probably town.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 17:55 GMT
#744
BTW

lonemeow filter disappeared from the OP
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&user=lonemeow
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 18:04 GMT
#745
I'm going to bed.

I got no idea where we are with majority.

If we can't get a consensus I'm really happy with a lynch on jampidampi.
His filter is worlds apart from "Nuclear .... <insert> <insert>

Either way its 2am, im dog tired and brain is half awake.
I will be back about 1hr from deadline -- hopefully town is organised by then.

See you guys in 6-7hrs.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 23:07 GMT
#798
@Sciberbia, jamidampi, rean

Why are you not voting Raynpelikoneet?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 23:19 GMT
#806
Btw:

I haven't read from page 37 to here yet, I just skimmed for votes to see if we are on majority.

(1) I will be on public transport the next 45minutes

(2) I haven't read Onegu case on me, but im kinda shocked that even if he thought I was scum, that he would cast a throw-away vote on me?

Its clear the main wagon is Rayn or possibly Rean/Aquanim.

The action of a throw-away vote given his hours and hours of reading sits quite poorly with me.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 21 2013 23:21 GMT
#807
On November 22 2013 08:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And that means thrawn is scum.
I was contemplating this last night too.
For me its the dwindling activity - will have to push him for more.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:06 GMT
#825
K, I am here with a stable connection.

Will start reading from p37
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:08 GMT
#827
On November 22 2013 04:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are a town leader as you have acted like and think i am the best lynch then fucking convince people of it. If you think Rean is the best lynch convince people of it. You will be held accountable for your actions anyways. thrawn acts like a town leader but when shit gets real he takes the easy way out, and that is bullshit, ecpecially considering the dude claims he can read me. Either he has no clue what he is talking about or he is scum.

I want to lynch Jampidampi because i think he is scum and Rean is not. In case you, Mocsta, think i am scum i suggest you join the wagon because if you lynch me you'll see a town flip and then you are in deep shit because you failed to listen to the town leader you are supposed to be good at reading and you did not lynch "his 100% scumbuddy" you were okay with lynching with before. Same can be said about thrawn.


The thread is stuck in a loop. Anytime someone talks to rayn or talks about lynching him, he insults them or calls them scum. His favorite tactic so far has been saying what reads people should be making and ends it by "and if they don't agree they're scum"

He is getting lynched. There is little reasoning for any of his thoughts or reads, and most of the reasoning is accompanied by insults that distract you and make you think his posts sound more intelligent than they are. He is trying to make his filter worthless to town after he flips red.

With a completely clear head.

This is a great post actually.

Thrawn is back in the good books.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:11 GMT
#829
Onegu post

His interpretation of Bereft makes me think Bereft is scum

"alls out mocsta for troll posts, first to do so.

Rean vote is ok, reasons arent great, better reasons other people are voteing him but meh

Makes a unreadable post with one of his scum reads then votes him after.

Also doesnt read my post clearly thinking its a cora case, even though he claims to have read my filter.

His reads are ok.

thoughts on why rayn is scum but dont agree. Also rayn useing bullshit alot isnt alignment indicative for him
"
Thats pretty much exactly how scum want to play. Onegu is filling gaps and making an interpretation because Bereft is being unclear/ writing shitty cases.

The worst thing is that he thought onegu case on me, was a case on corazon. If he genuinely read onegu filter to give out a town read, then this should *not* have occured as a case is one of the best ways to divine someones alignment.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:16 GMT
#831
On November 22 2013 09:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 09:08 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 04:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are a town leader as you have acted like and think i am the best lynch then fucking convince people of it. If you think Rean is the best lynch convince people of it. You will be held accountable for your actions anyways. thrawn acts like a town leader but when shit gets real he takes the easy way out, and that is bullshit, ecpecially considering the dude claims he can read me. Either he has no clue what he is talking about or he is scum.

I want to lynch Jampidampi because i think he is scum and Rean is not. In case you, Mocsta, think i am scum i suggest you join the wagon because if you lynch me you'll see a town flip and then you are in deep shit because you failed to listen to the town leader you are supposed to be good at reading and you did not lynch "his 100% scumbuddy" you were okay with lynching with before. Same can be said about thrawn.


The thread is stuck in a loop. Anytime someone talks to rayn or talks about lynching him, he insults them or calls them scum. His favorite tactic so far has been saying what reads people should be making and ends it by "and if they don't agree they're scum"

He is getting lynched. There is little reasoning for any of his thoughts or reads, and most of the reasoning is accompanied by insults that distract you and make you think his posts sound more intelligent than they are. He is trying to make his filter worthless to town after he flips red.

With a completely clear head.

This is a great post actually.

Thrawn is back in the good books.


Why Mocsta why....... I just now decided to explore the possibilty that rayn is town and you go ahead and reconfirm my earlier doubts about him!

poop

No, i didnt say I have a set feeling on whether rayn is town/scum.

Last night I was trying to figure out if a town rayn would blow his lid like he did.

I posed a musing about motive, which I had hope rayn would reply to (not sure yet).

I agered with the point that a rayn lynch will improve town atmosphere, as he is blowing people off very unreasonably.



If what onegu says is true about bereft I would seriously jump to that lynch THIS CYCLE.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:20 GMT
#836
On November 22 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I think you're scum because of your hard-defending of Rean. I can't see a town motive for you to go apeshit about how we're mislynching him. You just can't be that sure about someone that you thought was scum @ one point. I think he's your scumbuddy and you're doing everything you can to keep him out of the noose.
I disagree.

If rayn was town *AND* was certain Rean was town, he would act like this.

My problem is, I cant follow how Rayn suddenly went from querying every punctuation of Rean to giving him town love.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:21 GMT
#837
On November 22 2013 09:18 Bereft wrote:
mocsta, are you serious?

Yes (if its true) Im still catching up on the thread so do not know whether onegu is stating fact, or interpretation.

Either way, if it is interpretation I don't think it was malicious,
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:24 GMT
#840
On November 22 2013 07:13 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 05:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
This lynch is so stupid. I can't believe you guys let Mocsta take you by the balls and vote out Rayn just because they were having an ego fight.

Lol no. I want to lynch Rayn because I don't believe he plays this way as town. Rayn tunnels, it's what he does. Do you seriously believe this sequence of events from a town Rayn:

- Rayn wants to lynch Bereft/Onegu
- A bunch of votes materialises in Rayn
- Rayn's now willing to lynch Jampidampi

My impresssion from my quick read of what's happened since I went to sleep is that this trend is continuing: Rayn doesn't give a damn who we lynch today as long as it's not Rean.

I think this is a fair synopses.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:29 GMT
#843
On November 22 2013 08:12 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum?

do you need it spelled out for you? why do you care so much about potentially mislynching Rean, but you don't have ANY qualms about lynching anyone else in the game? you DO realize it's not 2 town vs. 10 mafia, right? who's your strongest town read after Rean? Onegu? and how about after that?

also, it's pretty obvious so I don't know why it begs repeating, but it's the job of every responsible townie to not throw away their vote and get a majority lynch on a scum read right now. scib, I'm looking at you.

This is a really good post at a good time interval.

The second part is prototypical town agenda, i suppose null.

But the top part is good. Whilst others have conveyed rayn is voting every dog, cat and horse.
This was a really effective way to communicate the message.

its not 2 town vs 10 mafia indeed.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:30 GMT
#846
On November 22 2013 09:27 Bereft wrote:
in my post where i wrote why i think onegu is town, i've explicitly stated that i've no idea towards the end of his massive stream of consciousness post what he's trying to say:
I don't think anyone did, its was a total cluster hahah
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:31 GMT
#847
On November 22 2013 08:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 08:12 Bereft wrote:
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum?

do you need it spelled out for you? why do you care so much about potentially mislynching Rean, but you don't have ANY qualms about lynching anyone else in the game? you DO realize it's not 2 town vs. 10 mafia, right? who's your strongest town read after Rean? Onegu? and how about after that?

also, it's pretty obvious so I don't know why it begs repeating, but it's the job of every responsible townie to not throw away their vote and get a majority lynch on a scum read right now. scib, I'm looking at you.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT MY TOWNREADS? WHAT'S THIS POST ABOUT?
I just made a post on my top lynch target, and you ask me about fucking townreads. Well here you go.

Onegu is town
Rean is town
Lonemeow/Holyflare is town
Jampidampi is town
Corazon is town
sciberbia is most likely town
Aquanim is most likely town

there.
This reaction to the Bereft post i said above is quite odd and is typical of how rayn has played since decidinghe didnt want rean lynched.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:33 GMT
#849
On November 22 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 22 2013 08:07 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is everyone saying "rayn is scum because he does not give a fuck about who we lynch as long as that is not Rean"?
How does that make me scum?

Do you agree that you don't give a fuck about who we lynch as long as it's not Rean, or are you merely saying it for the sake of the argument?

I just made a case on JJD. wtf are you talking about?
Do you even read the thread. Of course i fucking care about who we lynch. I just don't want to lynch town.

Sure you made some shitty fabricated case, whatever. I could make cases all day on just about anyone if I tried, and if I wanted to. What I don't buy is that your suspicions of JJD appeared so quickly and erased your suspicions of Jampidampi/Onegu/me/whoever the hell else you've wanted to lynch apart from Mocsta and Bereft. The mere fact that you're shifting between lynches so quickly means you aren't serious about trying to get your scumread lynched.

And like I said, town Rayn tunnels, he doesn't jump from lynch to lynch to lynch like this.

As for those scumslips. The Mocsta one isn't a scumslip at all, asking "Have you been mislynched before?" doesn't mean in any way that he thinks you're a mislynch today. The Bereft one is better, but there's no way I'm lynching someone based on something which is almost certainly a typo whatever his alignment.

This is a good post too. Even if rayn was town, there is no reason for aqua to articulate himself like this as rayn is ripe for the picking.

The jjd case was possibly the biggest pile of crap I have read in this game.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:36 GMT
#853
On November 22 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 08:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And that means thrawn is scum.
I was contemplating this last night too.
For me its the dwindling activity - will have to push him for more.

All he does is shit on me. And in the same sentence he tell people to not talk about me
If you are town i can guarantee thrawn is scum.
But, plz, we need to lynch JJD.
Mocsta, you know me, i do dumb (looking) stuff as town. But i have reasons for it. I have given my reasons. All these people i have never played before do not understand it. Look at Jampidampi, look at Onegu. They know my shit. They are not votingfor me. Why? They know what i do is not scumlike. Fuck jampidampi's behavior when i went "batshit crazy" on him was so 100% town. He knows NWM. He knows me and thinks critically.

Apparenty you at least attempted to do so. haha.

For a second think about it. If you can't understand it then okay, i fucked up. Then you vote for me. That's not the end of the world and i still have my reads to offer. But JJD - i tell you - he is scum. He is so very scum i suggest you read my case on him.
This is teh second time Rayn has done an appeal to me. I dont like it.

He claims this is typical behaviour.. yet, my expectation of a town rayn is that he would go out of his way to prove this behavior is typical
i.e. reinforce his position with quote after quote after quote.

RAYN IS THE BEST LYNCH FOR TODAY
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:37 GMT
#855
On November 22 2013 08:32 Holyflare wrote:
Jesus christ, I'm about half way now and half of you are making full blown cases on people based on page 1 posts, this is shambolic and ridiculous.

This is a bad post, especially tied in with LoneMeows posts.

There is no intent here other than to discredit this town.

Does HF say we are scummy for this? No, its just an observation that is shit-slinging.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:42 GMT
#860
JampiDampi, Sciberbia, Onegu
I refuse you believe you guys are not present for this lynch?

We need to make this rayn lynch happen.
A no-lynch puts us in a terrible situation as we will just repeat this again D2 (minus a townie due to NK)




Holyflare
You are confirmed present and may be our only chance to reach a majority vote.

I know you haven't read the game, but we are one vote off majority.

I *IMPLORE* you to vote Rayn.

P.S. there is 15min till deadline. This *is* urgent.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:43 GMT
#863
I forgot to add rean to that list.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:45 GMT
#866
On November 22 2013 09:43 sciberbia wrote:
There is 2 hours until deadline Moc. I will vote rayn only to avoid a no-lynch. Respond to my last post.

Ohh shit.. i was gettign confused with mafia lx

awesome, thanks man I was starting to panic.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:52 GMT
#870
On November 22 2013 09:42 sciberbia wrote:
I don't want to lynch rayn at all. Anyone that has played with rayn before should know he does batshit crazy stuff, tunnels people, and has ridiculous convinction in his reads. He normally gets his shit together by D2 or D3 and if he's still doing this at that time then I'd lynch him without blinking an eye. But nothing I've seen from him this game isn't possible from town rayn, and in fact there is good reason to believe he's town.

I'm not fully caught up, but just look at the thread atmosphere when rayn 'martyrs' himself and starts causing a ruckus. The majority of the votes were on Rean and Aquanim, and rayn wasn't even in the conversation of lynch candidates.

Rayn's not a noob. He doesn't play to lose. He had to know that what he was saying was going to be unpopular. It doesn't make any sense as scum for him to make a bunch of bold assertions, vote himself, and generally just draw negative attention. The only way this makes ANY sense at all is if Rean is also scum, but even then it wouldn't help for rayn to get himself lynched. I don't really see it.
Take this as scummy if you want to but, if rayn is town I don't see him dropping this behaviour. Hes impeding anyone from having meaningful discourse as he just interrupts and calls you scum and tries to take a dump on your front lawn as soon as your arrive at the driveway after a 12hr shift.

I myself have also been struggling with motive for rayns actions. is he really that butthurt? if so, I would have expected he cool down by now, but instead he is getting progressively worse.

Like i said last night, what is the trigger for this? Rayn was in my town reads the 24hrs ago - and was made aware of that.
Thrawn pulls out an oddity on rayn and then we disagree on some post interpretations and he starts going batshit crazy eventuating to a martyr. The build up almost seems forced to me?

My main issue is that I have identified *several* times that I can not follow how Rayn jumps from Rean is scum to Rean is town. he has made zero effort to fill in this gap


Onegu is still the best lynch.. Onegu's only contribution since last night is a giant readdddz post where he votes Mocsta, and seems to content to be ignored, and hasn't posted since.

Onegu does not seem to care about who gets lynched, and he's avoided discussing it with the town.

@everyone in the thread right now
explain the scum motivation for rayn throwing a bunch of shit and even voting himself just as it looked like Rean was going to be lynched. Also, explain ANYTHING you have seen in Onegu's play that makes you think he is town.[/QUOTE]I thought Onegu massive list post read alright (but I haven't double checked the facts)

Now that we have 2 hrs, Im going to priortise cross-referencing his reads on Bereft. If they are bullshit, Onegu to me comes out looking pretty bad.

The key difference for you guys is about this majority vote.
Whilst you disagre with rayn (like onegu) you acknowledge a lynch is required today.

Onegu on the other hand has not acknowledged this -- which gravely concerns me. I shouldnt have to appeal to him.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:52 GMT
#871
On November 22 2013 09:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
scib and thrawn:

i am banking the game on you now. read my posts. please read my posts. please please please.
if i am wrong on this you can laugh at me all day long but in mocsta,bereft,JJD there are at least 2 scum.
100% rayn guarantee.
GTFO
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:54 GMT
#876
EBWOP sorry for fail quotes
On November 22 2013 09:42 sciberbia wrote:
I don't want to lynch rayn at all. Anyone that has played with rayn before should know he does batshit crazy stuff, tunnels people, and has ridiculous convinction in his reads. He normally gets his shit together by D2 or D3 and if he's still doing this at that time then I'd lynch him without blinking an eye. But nothing I've seen from him this game isn't possible from town rayn, and in fact there is good reason to believe he's town.

I'm not fully caught up, but just look at the thread atmosphere when rayn 'martyrs' himself and starts causing a ruckus. The majority of the votes were on Rean and Aquanim, and rayn wasn't even in the conversation of lynch candidates.

Rayn's not a noob. He doesn't play to lose. He had to know that what he was saying was going to be unpopular. It doesn't make any sense as scum for him to make a bunch of bold assertions, vote himself, and generally just draw negative attention. The only way this makes ANY sense at all is if Rean is also scum, but even then it wouldn't help for rayn to get himself lynched. I don't really see it.
Take this as scummy if you want to but, if rayn is town I don't see him dropping this behaviour. Hes impeding anyone from having meaningful discourse as he just interrupts and calls you scum and tries to take a dump on your front lawn as soon as your arrive at the driveway after a 12hr shift.

I myself have also been struggling with motive for rayns actions. is he really that butthurt? if so, I would have expected he cool down by now, but instead he is getting progressively worse.

Like i said last night, what is the trigger for this? Rayn was in my town reads the 24hrs ago - and was made aware of that.
Thrawn pulls out an oddity on rayn and then we disagree on some post interpretations and he starts going batshit crazy eventuating to a martyr. The build up almost seems forced to me?

My main issue is that I have identified *several* times that I can not follow how Rayn jumps from Rean is scum to Rean is town. he has made zero effort to fill in this gap


Onegu is still the best lynch.. Onegu's only contribution since last night is a giant readdddz post where he votes Mocsta, and seems to content to be ignored, and hasn't posted since.

Onegu does not seem to care about who gets lynched, and he's avoided discussing it with the town.

@everyone in the thread right now
explain the scum motivation for rayn throwing a bunch of shit and even voting himself just as it looked like Rean was going to be lynched. Also, explain ANYTHING you have seen in Onegu's play that makes you think he is town.
I thought Onegu massive list post read alright (but I haven't double checked the facts)[/quote]

Now that we have 2 hrs, Im going to priortise cross-referencing his reads on Bereft. If they are bullshit, Onegu to me comes out looking pretty bad.

The key difference for you guys is about this majority vote.
Whilst you disagre with rayn (like onegu) you acknowledge a lynch is required today.

Onegu on the other hand has not acknowledged this -- which gravely concerns me. I shouldnt have to appeal to him.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:56 GMT
#879
On November 22 2013 09:53 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 09:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 22 2013 09:30 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Please could you read my case on JarJar, and my bullet points against him. Those are really good.

Yeah, the bullet points look really good until you realise they're mostly unsubstantiated by the actual quotes.

Except that i made a big case <3

Big doesn't mean good. I didn't see a single one of your points that was actually substantitated by the quotes you supplied.

Trust me when I say this.

I'm finding Rayns cases townies - yes, he is that good

My issue is not the cases, but the lack of anchorage which all started from the flipflop on rean.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 00:58 GMT
#882
On November 22 2013 09:52 sciberbia wrote:
Also I think Cora is pretty scummy. Reading his filter the feeling I get is that he KNOWS rayn is not scum,but acts as though his "hand was forced" into voting him even though there's plenty of time into the lynch and there are better candidates. He just says things like "rayn's behavior is not acceptable". And the actual scummy points he does raise against rayn are total BS.

Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.


This is trying to apply a scumtell to a situation where it doesn't apply at all. If you have 8 votes on you then maybe martyrying is a scumtell, but rayn hardly had any pressure on him when he started trampling through the thread and voting himself. Read rayn's filter from the last 12 hours and tell me he has been trying to "gain town cred". He has been doing the complete opposite by pissing everybody off. Cora is reallly reaching hard here to justify his vote.

I'd be happy with a Cora lynch if anybody prefers him to Onegu.

I dont feel confident on Corazon and i treat this post as null (it did stick out for me)

Corazon story in the thread is that he disagreed with a rayn lynch.
It kinda makes sense for him to do the above to mentality justify the decision to himself (if town)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:02 GMT
#892
On November 22 2013 10:00 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 09:59 Holyflare wrote:
failed f5, anyway I will not be lynching rayn today


still waiting on a productive post from you

Yeah, I would seriously consider voting this slot right here right now.

Hes buying time; most replacements in his situation vote the common bandwagon and then read the thread.

Hes trying to be all "pro scum-hunter" i can read the 50 page thread and shove it to you guys.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:33 GMT
#936
Cross-Reference of Onegu reads post on Bereft

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=38#756

Calls out mocsta for troll posts, first to do so.

On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.
Onegu does not explain why this is relevant as an observation. The assumption is that he is confirmation biasd on me, thus treats this a town tell (but thats a guess obviously)


Rean vote is ok, reasons arent great, better reasons other people are voteing him but meh
On November 21 2013 13:05 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Rean is my top lynch candidate atm, guys. one more thing to add:

On November 21 2013 03:10 Rean wrote:
Forgot this:

Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".


I do think Cora is acting scummy but when I see people making what I think is a mistake/wrong interpretation in their arguments I still feel the need to point it out. That isn't defending Cora, it's making sure the suspicion on him is valid and not there because of flawed arguments.

i really don't like this. basically he's admitting to defending Cora even though he thinks Cora is scummy. why? because he believes Mocsta's thought process is flawed.

if I think someone is scum and someone arrives to the same conclusion albeit a different method, i don't see the need to correct them. it's not like he says: "yo i think the way you arrived at your conclusion a bit weak, but i agree with the ultimate end conclusion that cora is scum". he says "Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora." if anything, i analyze their case and see if it strengthens or invalidates my own read.

##Vote: Rean
Bereft states "one more thing to ad" - hence clearly he is in agreement with the reasons others have already proposed. He is merely adding his own extra layer of topping to the cake. I don't get how Onegu interprets this as "other people have better reasons" to justify this as a dot point. I get that Onegu has a scum read on Rean (as per the reads post) however, this dot point doesnt explain whether the motive of Bereft is to cheaply "+1" or what?


Makes a unreadable post with one of his scum reads then votes him after.

On November 21 2013 12:43 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
guys, sorry i'm still catching up on the thread (i know you hardxcore mafia players will laugh at this - "it's only 25 pages!" but here are my reasons for my scum lean on the following players:
Cora+ Show Spoiler +

i'm going to skip going over the whole early shaky scum read on scib since that's already been covered and addressed pretty thoroughly. things that stood out to me:

On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.


Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro.

The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now.


i think this post is really bad. i find it pretty odd that he finds it necessary to point out that scib is "piggy backing" on him and proceeds to waste an exchange with scib on whether they were in fact clarifying the same thing with thrawn. i find it hard to find a reason why townies would have this exchange or even care. who cares? he doesn't just mention this once. he argues the point SEVERAL times and is still bringing it up ages later (along with scib's bullshit page 1 "read") as the basis for his scum read:

On November 21 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
This is a stupid read and smells of fake scum-hunting:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.


This is the post where he basically copies me and then denies it:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.


This is where he denies copying me and he twists my words to make it look like I already assumed they were masons:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

Show nested quote +


as i mentioned here:

On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

i find it extremely odd he doesn't find mocsta's behavior from page 1 even worth mentioning if he takes so much issue with page 1 reads.

Rean+ Show Spoiler +


wastes his first few posts just agreeing or clarifying things, and he's not even being useful in his clarifications. what i really don't like is that when i specifically call him out to pick his brain, he doesn't even give me *ANY* interpretation of what he thinks of the player. it's totally ambiguous. then, when Aqua calls him out, his answer is totally wishy washy and shady -- gives a town-read but 100% hedges it:

On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?

Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?


I'd say town, scum is typically more laidback. But could just be a good scumbag.


i also find the interactions between cora and rean pretty weird and incongruous. even something small like cora calling rean out for asking for town reads i find a pretty weird point to common on -- the exchange is pointless as he doesn't draw any conclusion from it and just seems to be critiquing rean's play.

what i also find noteworthy is that:
(A) rean first FOS's sciberia when sciberia asks for his top scum read.
(B) rean gives a soft defense of cora to moc
(C) but then suddenly cora becomes a scum read and he says:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.


B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.

And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind.

BUT THEN!! after aqua votes for him, IN THE VERY NEXT POST:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
...
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?

Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do).

In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it.

##Vote: Rean

I'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him.


How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:

I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.

Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
. And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as
On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative.
This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance.

This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: Aquanim

i spent 10 mins trying to fix those quotes in the rean spoiler. i give up, sorry guys. going through aqua and onegu's filters now.
I'm surprised the order of the dot points went like this because I would have expected a filter dive of Bereft to pull up this point when it was read - as the reasonings are quite weak. Again, Onegu doesn't dive into any motive behind this. Its just calling out poor play. Weak beans all up.
Lastly, its also ironic onegu has an issue with poorly formatted cases/votes given his penchant for formating when he originally cased me.



Also doesnt read my post clearly thinking its a cora case, even though he claims to have read my filter.

On November 21 2013 13:32 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 13:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bereft, I would like to know why you don't think we should lynch Onegu. I was really puzzled when you threw that read out (as were others) and I just want to know why you see Onegu in a good light. When you said you thought he was town I got this feeling that we weren't reading the same game.

i like that he came into the thread with a bunch of off the cuff reads -- to me this reads as careless, unstructured, bold.
On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.



Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>



Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post.


Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change.

Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy.

Anyway rean is really scumm though.


Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though.


if he's scum, this is not at all a "safe" post to bust into the thread with.

i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out. i really want to believe moc is town, but i keep seeing small red flags embedded in his posts. he's the first person to really do this, and if scum, i think this is also pretty bold because mocsta's obviously an aggressive player. i was accused of being scum and attempting to disrupt a town circle for telling mocsta to explain himself.

he gives me a very very slight town lean (exact phrasing "starting to look better") at a time when it's totally unnecessary to do so, considering everyone else would most likely have slotted me into the "lurker, null, need to hear more from" category if prodded.

admittedly his last post is a jumbled mess and i have no idea what he's saying with this:

Im going to go over your reads here and just ask you how you came to these because alot were null to me or the exact opposite of what you wrote so lets go.

1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...

2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.

3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.

4 this is fine

5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?

6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.

7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.

8 again not a scumslip

9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.

10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?

12 meh ok

12b also fine

13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?

14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...

15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.

16 again why post a completely null post?

17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town

18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.

19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on

20 admit to being tunneled

21 this is fine

22 tunneled

23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.

24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd.


but i do think it's a very strong point in his favor that his posts are coming off as being written with a lack of care as to how they'd be perceived.
I assume this is the post in question.
The conclusion doesn't make sense considering Bereft stated "i think it's on point that he calls mocsta's thread presence out". In fact, Bereft calls Onegu town here.

If memory serves me right, it was Corazon who thought Onegu was attacking him with the case on me.

Ironically, the point Onegu raises here is actually not applicable to Bereft, but completely applicable to Onegu.


His reads are ok.

On November 21 2013 13:47 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
also rayn, i assume your sentence was a typo -- you're saying i [i]should be filtering my null reads, correct?

i don't see a situation where a majority of the people here would prefer to lynch lonemeow or mocsta over rean, cora, or aqua. do you disagree? if i find 3 people scummy, should i not be analyzing the one i would most prefer to lynch?

also FWIW i have looked at aqua's filter and my gut read has been dampened somewhat. right now i'm still thinking about it, but if you want me to bang out some half baked thoughts to "meet expectations" i will be happy to accommodate.
On November 21 2013 07:43 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
hey guys, I'm at work right now, but I'll be home in about 4 hours. have only skimmed the last few pages from my phone, but currently this is where I'm at:

town lean on: thrawn, scib, dude whose name starts with jamp or something, onegu, rayn
null on: mocsta, JJD, lone meow
leaning scum on: rean, cora, aqua

unclear to me why onegu is obv scum/2nd day lynch according to moc. I'll take a closer look at his filter tonight along with my null to scum reads and update who I'm comfortable lynching day 1.
Between the two I assume this is reference to quote 1 via sequence of events.

Read are OK = Rean, Cora, Aqua

In onegu list post: Rean = scummy
Cora = scummish but I cannot shake the feeling he is town
Aqua = Implies town

So, how are these good reads? Or using Onegu wording, how are these "OK reads".


 thoughts on why rayn is scum but dont agree. Also rayn useing bullshit alot isnt alignment indicative for him

On November 21 2013 23:34 Bereft wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
rayn, you used "bullshit" five times in your last post on me. FIVE. your reentry into the thread sounds very angry. why? is it because you've climbed higher on other people's scum lynch? a bit rich coming from you, who called me "overly defensive" for being incredulous and annoyed at you saying "lynch bereft, fucking scummy - peace!" or is it because you are very unhappy with today's lynch, so instead you're preferring to throw away your vote on a [i]bullshit case?
Calls this out
over some of the other interplay between Rayn/Bereft.
I dont get it; again, what motive is onegu associating this with?



Its completely unclear what Onegu read on Bereft is.
Everything is simply OK.. yet after digging up the posts, quite a few of Onegu pointers are clearly not applicable.

When i read this list of observations on Bereft originally, I thought Bereft could be scum due to blending in with status quo (which aligns with how Onegu constantly says everything is "OK")
Again, this is a clear misrepresentation of Bereft - with low effort to boot

Thus I agree with Sciberbia that Onegu does not appear to care about the direction of this lynch.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:36 GMT
#941
On November 22 2013 10:11 Holyflare wrote:
It implies moreso to mocsta because he should know something like that.

Thats hilarious.

I was about the say the exact same post to you....
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:41 GMT
#949
On November 22 2013 10:27 sciberbia wrote:
OK listen. For people not satisfied with a rayn lynch, we need to establish a decent counter wagon NOW or we will never have time to get 7 votes and people will just say "not enough time sorry let's just lynch rayn". My preferences are Onegu > Cora > Rean.

@thrawn, Mocsta, rayn, Holyflare, Onegu(?), Cora(?), anyone not wanting a rayn lynch
We need a god-damn counter wagon. Compromises have to be made -- not everybody can lynch their top choice. I started a wagon on Onegu which nobody would join. Thrawn and I started a wagon on Cora and thrawn jumped off. You guys need to put some votes down and consolidate.

Scibs.

I could contemplate Onegu and Holyflare.

My issue with your reserach into Ego mafia is that a town rayn should have been capable to pushing that out.
I even commented on this prior.

I also agree with Bereft that the tone is not similar.

My vote is sticking with Rayn.



Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:43 GMT
#955
On November 22 2013 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
mocsta wtf are you going on about... say something helpful

This is an unusal response.

Talk to me more.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:47 GMT
#962
On November 22 2013 10:42 thrawn2112 wrote:
##vote: onegu


I thought you had bigger balls.


I don't want to play with Rayn anymore full stop.
We had a good town environment until page 25ish and I was relaly enjoying this game.

He has single handedly shit the thread and this game has completely denigrated into somethign I have no interest playing anymore.

My vote is staying on Rayn.

/post-game
If rayn is town this game, you will be added to my personal ban list. Im pretty fucking disgusted right now.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:48 GMT
#964
On November 22 2013 10:42 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 10:07 Holyflare wrote:
Aquanim that is the most suspicious as fuck thing anyone has said in the past few pages.

If I was scum I could just lynch the bandwagon and get a majority to get rid of a player, if he was town it doesn't look bad for me because I just came to the thread right? If he was scum it's the same thing, I just bussed a team mate and I don't look any worse or better.

Now please inform me how that is shitting up the thread, I have an initial town read on rayn based on games that I have played with him and I want to stop people lynching someone who is a town read to me.



Replace aquanim's name with mocsta and answer me that please.


WIFOM, your specialty as scum.

As I said to Onegu, considering you have played with me recently as scum. Its pretty clear what my ailgnment is.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:49 GMT
#967
On November 22 2013 10:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 10:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
mocsta wtf are you going on about... say something helpful

This is an unusal response.

Talk to me more.


yes it was i'm sorry

I dont need an apology.

I would like to know why you thought it wasnt useful?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:50 GMT
#970
On November 22 2013 10:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
Sorry guys I don't like onegu lynch either ##unvote and I will not vote again unless I've thought about it for more than 10 seconds.

Do us a favour and vote rayn again please.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:51 GMT
#974
On November 22 2013 10:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:42 thrawn2112 wrote:
##vote: onegu


I thought you had bigger balls.


I don't want to play with Rayn anymore full stop.
We had a good town environment until page 25ish and I was relaly enjoying this game.

He has single handedly shit the thread and this game has completely denigrated into somethign I have no interest playing anymore.

My vote is staying on Rayn.

/post-game
If rayn is town this game, you will be added to my personal ban list. Im pretty fucking disgusted right now.


Dude he's town, I'm sorry, I hate it too, it hurts my ego and it also makes the game a lot harder if you consider voting someone else... but rayn is town so we should play accordingly.

Give me three reasons why Rayn can only be town.

If you have such a strong opinion, this should be quite easy.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:53 GMT
#977
On November 22 2013 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 10:49 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
mocsta wtf are you going on about... say something helpful

This is an unusal response.

Talk to me more.


yes it was i'm sorry

I dont need an apology.

I would like to know why you thought it wasnt useful?


I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and that's why what I said was a dumb thing to post. Now we need to stop circle jerking and figure out who besides rayn we're going to lynch.

No, you dont get to brush this off.

Why did you vote Onegu afterwards.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 01:56 GMT
#981
On November 22 2013 10:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 10:53 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:49 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
mocsta wtf are you going on about... say something helpful

This is an unusal response.

Talk to me more.


yes it was i'm sorry

I dont need an apology.

I would like to know why you thought it wasnt useful?


I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and that's why what I said was a dumb thing to post. Now we need to stop circle jerking and figure out who besides rayn we're going to lynch.

No, you dont get to brush this off.

Why did you vote Onegu afterwards.


mocsta unless you think I'm scum please stfu
I am starting to give it weight

So answer the god-damn question.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 02:06 GMT
#1001
On November 22 2013 11:00 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 10:56 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:53 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:49 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
mocsta wtf are you going on about... say something helpful

This is an unusal response.

Talk to me more.


yes it was i'm sorry

I dont need an apology.

I would like to know why you thought it wasnt useful?


I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and that's why what I said was a dumb thing to post. Now we need to stop circle jerking and figure out who besides rayn we're going to lynch.

No, you dont get to brush this off.

Why did you vote Onegu afterwards.


mocsta unless you think I'm scum please stfu
I am starting to give it weight

So answer the god-damn question.


I will expand on my previous post.

I was too lazy to read a huge post about a candidate that I hadn't really thought about until the moment I saw your post, and my knee jerk reaction was to call your post useless. That is my brain's way of tricking me into thinking that I didn't actually need to read your post, my brain is a lazy fuck sometimes and I need to be more mindful of its sinister machinations.

Then I realized everything in the above paragraph and decided to read your post. I agreed with it and was desperately looking for a candidate so I voted Onegu. Then I went and read his filter and decided I can't find enough scumminess in it that's worth lynching him over.
Thank you.
I dont have a problem you didnt want to read the post - that is normal.
I dont agree with your reasoning; however,i dont know you very well so it i wont argue it either.

(in my opinion)
Call outs like what you did only occur when you have a strong read on someone and then the "where da fuq did that post come from" identifies an opposite alignment on that person.



If you could not find enough scumminess in onegu filter; do you think he cares about seeing a lynch through?


Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 02:09 GMT
#1006
On November 22 2013 11:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i am not a whiny little girl when i am accused of being scum.

Yep,

just a whiny little girl every other day of the week.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 02:20 GMT
#1016
Scib
There is one thing to lynch scum and another to continue lynching scum

I agree that it is very bad those you named have had very low presence over the past 8hrs.
Rean in particular as a true lynch candidate.

However, even if we secured a non rayn scum lynch.. he is making this game unplayable and his reads are terrible. I'm not scum.

I see more value to town with a rayn lynch/mislynch than a scum lynch not in rayn.

Sorry to say it but he's playing that antitown I have to call for policy
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 02:29 GMT
#1025
Rayn

What didnyou think if thrawn and his position on onegu?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 02:30 GMT
#1027
Corazon was always going to do this I think.
Sigh
I have to go to a meeting.

Ugghhh

Please vote rayn. There's nothing more I can say
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:41 GMT
#1102
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:50 GMT
#1105
On November 22 2013 11:48 sciberbia wrote:
I'll consolidate to rayn if necessary.

But you guys really need to put your votes down. This is the problem with not having a counterwagon. Now we are just lynching rayn because we have no choice, not because that many people even think he's a good lynch.

The original counter-wagons were Rean / Aqua

As a musing

The day had 2 halves

Half 1: Before Rayn chucked martyred

Half 2: After Rayn martyred

My reads from Half 1 were:
On November 21 2013 14:49 Mocsta wrote:
Next, this is my group of strong town reads from p5 -> p20
{Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Rayn}

This is my group of tentative town reads from p5->p20 (i.e. people i dont have interest to lynch this cycle)
{Corazon, Bereft, Onegu, LoneMeow}

Thus, this is my pile of shit left over: for todays lynch

{Rean, Sciberbia, jampidampi}


and then
On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:
Read the whole game. Updated reads list:

The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}

The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}

The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}


The common denominators are Rean + Jampidampi.


Jampidampi is terrible as he refused to commit to anything accusations on rayn last night (from recollection)
Rean is terrible for that post he made. It reads as if he knew he was not getting lynched so decided to keep quiet.

I dont like holyflare, but hes low priority for me - over the next cyles Im sure if he is town he can start proving it.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:52 GMT
#1106
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.

WTF is this.
I asked if i am scum to you.

And you respond with:
This is something you did "that is scummy".

So i ask again.. am i scum to you?


Lastly, I never shied away from stating it was a policy lynch.
I find it funny how you come here and stand on your high horse. Why didnt you give your tells for a town rayn 2 hrs ago when it was actually relevant and useful?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:54 GMT
#1108
On November 22 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:27 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:14 Aquanim wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Doesn't Onegu's vote look really scummy with Rayn's flip?

I'm not sure why Onegu's vote looks scummier due to Rayn's flip. Unless you're saying he didn't want to take responsibility for the Rayn lynch... which would apply to you in spades too. Could you clarify?

Onegu dropped a vote away from Rayn and then peaced out.

What would scum do if they knew town Rayn was probably going to be lynched 12 hours in advance? They wouldn't all pack on the Rayn wagon. That would be too obvious for a scum team. Wouldn't it make sense for Onegu to put a vote on Moc in the middle of the Rayn tunnel to look like he was making an effort to scum-hunt and then be able to distance himself from a Rayn lynch?

I was transparent with my stance on Rayn and my decision to no-lynch. Onegu was very shady about it and I think it's because he is hiding the fact that he is scum.

That's a fair point.

Do you think the same applies to jampidampi and Rean, who both left their votes on me without pushing my lynch at all seriously? Personally I doubt they're all scum but I think there's at least one and possibly two scum in {Jampidampi, Rean, Onegu}.

And that's what should be the focal point of N1.

Interesting, ties in precisely with my post on reads from 1st half of day1.

Btw, i agere you were very transparent. I also think the action to no-lynch vs vote someone else was pretty townie.
Because in my mind it attempts to force a discussion on all remaining people vs just the new vote recipient.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:54 GMT
#1110
On November 22 2013 12:53 Holyflare wrote:
Why are you asking me if you are scum if quite clearly I gave your name in a list of people I want to lynch then??

Because I re-evaluate my reads after flips.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:55 GMT
#1111
On November 22 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.

WTF is this.
I asked if i am scum to you.

And you respond with:
This is something you did "that is scummy".

So i ask again.. am i scum to you?


Lastly, I never shied away from stating it was a policy lynch.
I find it funny how you come here and stand on your high horse.
Why didnt you give your tells for a town rayn 2 hrs ago when it was actually relevant and useful?

This was a question to you Holyflare
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 03:56 GMT
#1112
EBWOP
On November 22 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.

WTF is this.
I asked if i am scum to you.

And you respond with:
This is something you did "that is scummy".

So i ask again.. am i scum to you?


Lastly, I never shied away from stating it was a policy lynch.
I find it funny how you come here and stand on your high horse.

Why didnt you give your tells for a town rayn 2 hrs ago when it was actually relevant and useful?

This was a question to you Holyflare
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:02 GMT
#1116
On November 22 2013 13:00 Holyflare wrote:
Let me break this down for everyone else:

Onegu posts that rayn is town, onegu knows rayn's meta (thrawn and mocsta know this)
Mocsta sees onegu is afk, doesn't try and confirm rayn's meta to people, policy lynches him
Thrawn, calls rayn obviously towny, lynches him
Aqua, ignores everything rayn says, policy lynches him

1 of you is scum

Why only 1?

What does me seeing Onegu be AFK have to do with anything?

Break this down further.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:11 GMT
#1118
Btw,
I think Thrawn is town. I did very much 24hrs ago; and his compulsion to keep swapping votes is towny to me.
It could put him heavily under suspicion when rayn flipped town, and frankly, was unnecessary as scum play.

I thought Aqua was town from 24hrs ago as well. Holy states that aqua is ignoring everything, but that is not my opinion. If anything, Aqua can't stop bantering back with Rayn. Again, this is over done knowing it is a town flip. Aqua could have easily nested on his read - but he did not. I have a town lean on him, but wiill still be reading his cases carefully (and with Rayn gone I expect more output like cases from him)

Me: I was transparent about policy. You want to call that mafia, whatever. I knwo this game is 100% different to my recent scum game. Nothing more needs to be said + I dont knwo why you keep insinuating I am intimate with Rayns meta. I have expectations of his play, but I am not a connoiseur of him at all.


Onegu: Looks pretty bad I agree regardless of AFK.

Anyway mocsta is my biggest scumread now. Also Rayn is a terrible lynch today please change, ill try to be up for deadline but no promises.
This in particular. Nothing to do with the AFK its got to do with how he went about the situation.
He gives rayn a town read, and forces town to consider Rayns thread opposition (me)

Compare this to Corazon who is trying to avoid continuing this ego battle - Onegu instead fans the flames.

Onegu *is* scum

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:12 GMT
#1119
On November 22 2013 13:07 Holyflare wrote:
at least 1*

Onegu calls a person he can read well based off of meta town. You do not try and read into this any further or use it to stop a rayn lynch and then you just ask me why I didn't do the same thing? I clearly did not have as much time as you did to elaborate.

Another high-horse rider.

You were more than happy to chime in your tidbits.

Anyways, all you are doing is providing summaries of posts i can read.
You are not attributing scum motive to anything you are saying.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:34 GMT
#1121
HF

You actually dont sound like you believe what you are writing.

But thanks anyways, there is nothing else worth discussing regarding that statement

Heres a new one:
On November 22 2013 09:59 Holyflare wrote:
failed f5, anyway I will not be lynching rayn today

You didnt have time to expound on this; yet you have a series of postings that avoid scum hunting that is relevant to the lynch - consistently responding to new posts within intervals of less than 5minutes.

So again, why did you not try to derail the lynch by expressing why Rayn was town akin to:
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny.

The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:42 GMT
#1123
Corazon, what do you think of what I wrote about Onegu, Aqua, Thrawn before?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 04:57 GMT
#1126
On November 22 2013 13:49 cDgCorazon wrote:
TBH Thrawn looks like your second head or something Moc. All I see from him are town reads on you and +1 on everything that you write. I wish he would branch out and do some of his own reads or else I would like to look at him some more.
Fair comment on being a "hydra"

ummm, Thrawn did that last cycle. It was the trigger for Rayns meltdown.

One of the key things he found was a read on LoneMeow/HolyFlare which ties in with how HolyFlare has come into this game.

On November 21 2013 18:26 thrawn2112 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.

On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.


"I agree about Cor being scum" or even "I kinda agree" is how town people talk.

"I could agree" is how scum people talk. "Could agree" as in "if I were actually able to have an opinion but I can't because I'm scum." When they phrase things like this you are hearing their inner monologue trying to figure out what their reads would be if they didn't already know alignments. LM is also scum for townreading Aqua at a time when the average townie should have been at least a little suspicious of Aqua. My only problem writing LM off as scum is that he's barely posted. JampiDampi isn't posting either and I don't like how he was so quick to agree that my Aqua case was good and then he immediately stopped looking for mafia. I remember a post about looking for replacements so if this is him then I don't know how important that last point I made is and this might apply to LM if he's the one who's dropping out. Hopefully this won't be a problem after D1. Picking one out of those two to be scum.. I'll go with LM.

I just filtered scib real quick and he's ok. My gut says Bereft is town but at some point I'd like to do some 1v1 questioning.

Onegu remains an enigma but my gut has more and more been leaning towards town.

I was rereading rayn (sorry moc haven't finished up to the stuff you mentioned) and I came across this exchange

On November 21 2013 02:21 Mocsta wrote:
Are Rean and Aquanim bussing?



On November 21 2013 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't know and i don't care. They both look individually bad to me. I'll reconsider when i see flips. I am not looking into connections now. Everyone has made good posts and those people have made bad posts in my opinion. I do not think Aquanim's reasons for voting for Rean are strong, i don't even know if he thinks he is scum as this is what he says:
Show nested quote +
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.

Shouldn't he be voting for Cora instead?


A question like what mocsta asked is exactly the kind of unimportant and tiresome thing that town rayn both would strongly care about and also be able to provide several filter pages of spam talking about. Town rayn would never pass up the chance to indulge a question such as Mocsta asked. Town rayn cares deeply about every minute aspect of every angle of every possible theory and he can't stand not having an opinion about such things.

I need to reread Corazon, I previously thought he was pretty townie but Mocsta seems to disagree. I am loathe to do it because I don't want to reread those opening cor/scib arguments again and I also think that town Corazon has a very scummy way of talking, arguing, and just the general way he organizes and presents his thought process. I will do this later.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 05:11 GMT
#1129
I do not disagree at all that Thrawn needs more presence.

I don't think he has been buddying me though - in the sense, if anything I buddied him.

Yes I have buddied you before correct. But I was supporting your scum reads, and using your arguments to push them.
I don't think Thrawn is doing that to me. I think it has been coincidence we were thiking the same things at the same time, and posting live -- its what lead to me thiking he was town + towards end of cycle we were starting to disagree on stuff.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 05:18 GMT
#1131
I'm feeling really good about Corazon.
I think a scum Corazon woudl love to poke fingers (a la HolyFlare).

So my reads
The Good: {Thrawn, JarJar, Aqua, Corazon, Bereft, *Sciberbia}

The Bad: {jampidampi}
&
The Ugly: {#Rean/HolyFlare/Onegu}


* Scibs is my weakest read in this group but I think his issue has been lack of time to deliver the content he wants to.

# Interesting tidbit: Rean came into the thread so say: don't use old meta -- maybe he thought i was trying to set a trap or something
INTERESTING BECAUSE
the last time someone said that to me was Onegu in Hogwarts. He said, dont use meta from my last game to defend me (he was scum)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 05:21 GMT
#1132
On November 22 2013 14:13 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:
I do not disagree at all that Thrawn needs more presence.

I don't think he has been buddying me though - in the sense, if anything I buddied him.

Yes I have buddied you before correct. But I was supporting your scum reads, and using your arguments to push them.
I don't think Thrawn is doing that to me. I think it has been coincidence we were thiking the same things at the same time, and posting live -- its what lead to me thiking he was town + towards end of cycle we were starting to disagree on stuff.


(1) in 37 you were scum and I was town Moc

(2) Also, why is your filter 11 pages? Don't you think that it is a bit ridiculous for 48 hours?

(3) 11*20 is 220/48 is around 5. You have a post every 12 minutes. Tbh I think things would be better if you tried to tone it down.

(1) I know?? I was explaning the difference between buddying and having aligned thinking.

(2) Most of it I assume is trying to consolidate votes for a lynch. Yes, it took that much effort.

(3) Agreed; my reads are out there so if I'm NK'd I think those 3 (rean/HF/Onegu) are very good lynches to obtain a majority on.

/ciao
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 22 2013 15:02 GMT
#1151
I don't get this.

how am I not playing town that people like jarjar think I am a chance to flip scum?


Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 00:16 GMT
#1168
sihh

you huysbare playing like rayn.

looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.

thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time

need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.

avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.

conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.

if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.

people like onegu, holy, rwan are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,

cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.

good lcuk
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 01:59 GMT
#1181
Thrawn
Very quick. In phone thoughts with no reread


Jjd
Still town. I like the way he kept pushing Corazon about a point. He's always backing himself up with filter so good consistency.
I don't like that he assumed rayn could be right about Me.. but. Town can make those snap calls all the time. Plus jjd was suspicious of me at the start so I think there is progression to his comment.
Still town

Bereft
Yeah I'm a little concerned went into a big spiel to justify rayn lynch.
Um not sorry about it. I'm not really sure the town motive to give that spiel as bereft wasn't under pressure to justify actions.
I'm not sure if bereft is a townie that wanted to policy lynch rayn but doesn't want to admit. Or is scum hiding behind policy and again doesn't want to admit it.

Inoe that onegu presented the quote where bereft thinks onegu case wasn't on me but Cora.. I have to think about it.
Iverlall I would say that tell is null because that onegu case was so poorly formatted abd constructed it's message was never clear.
Will give bereft benefit of the doubt and say slight town lean. If anything is not worth considering when people like holy abd onegu are alive


Lastly I did not like how onegu addressed me over night. Seemed almost like a begging for forgiveness yonr.
If onegu really thought I was scum I would have expected more venom. Food for thought.

Gotta go. Sorry I couldn't be of more use
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 04:49 GMT
#1234
On November 23 2013 10:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:
Have some questions for you Cora.

1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself?
On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.


2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday.

Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip.

I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread.

I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it.

At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn.

After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not.

When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration.

TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch.

On a lunch break.

This is a really bad post.

Its very constructed and uses analogies. This is the first time Corazon breaks out a post with this type of construction and notably, he is answering a very important question from Sciberbia that - I think - produces an alignment indicative response.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 05:15 GMT
#1237
On November 23 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also Mocsta, I'm tired of you picking on me. You've been waffling on your read about me. Either make the fucking case or hold your tongue.

I was posting stuff that stuck out as I was reading.

Using analogies isn't scummy.

Its when you dont use them and suddenly decide to.
im specifically referencing "sharks were circling rayn"

I dunno where my read on you sits; smoethings are good, somethings are bad. This probably means you are town, but im not confident. low priority to me regardless.



Unfortunately the correct play is to leave HolyFlare alone.
It is possible scum was RB or Delay KP.

If Delay KP, its self-confirming. --> ezpz lynch later
If RB, its odd play and the claim was made pre-lynch; suggesting its real. Absolutely dumb ass claim regardless.



##Vote: jampidampi

*Maybe there is scum in the actives, but they can be figured out.
Guys like this guy are too unknown. Early cycle is our best opportunity to put pressure.

I have had an issue with him ever since he had the mindset to declare Corazon could be emotionally tunneled and then proceeding to tunnel aquanim over semantics.

Because, I dont think he knows corazon that well, so the call emotional tunnel suggests he is highly analytical.
This doesnt sit well with the lack of analytics with aquanim.

I'm off again /ciao
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 06:24 GMT
#1249
On November 23 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think he should hang. He's scum man.

##Vote: Onegu

Please let the man build his case on me + bereft before trying to lay down pressure.

Im very curious to see the goods on Bereft.

Please join me with jampidampi.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 08:18 GMT
#1285
On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game?

Why is this relevant?
My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer:

(A) you won't believe me;
(B) you will still think I am scummy.

Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch.
You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution.

I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles.

I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game.
In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town.
I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 08:26 GMT
#1289
On November 23 2013 16:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 16:47 Onegu wrote:
Nor did you ask them questions for when they came back, you didnt mention them at all.

At least I participated in the discussion.

Corazon,
Please listen carefully - I mean the below respectfully.

You are acting like Rayn last cycle - If someone mentions your name negatively, you bark back.
This is forum mafia, and pressure is a part of the game. We all have reasons to pressure both our scum reads and our town reads. There is no such thing as confirmed, unless its mod-related.

People have a right to query your actions without receiving ad-hominems/denigration in return.




That aside:
Why do you not want to join my vote on jampidampi?





Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 08:35 GMT
#1291
On November 23 2013 17:23 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 16:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
Aqua, Rean is town. I just finished rereading his filter, paying close attention to the parts where he is being pressured. Much of it reads as extremely genuine.

On November 22 2013 11:52 Rean wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 02:37 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No actually this is the best way to go:

##Unvote:
##Vote: raynpelikoneet


This proves Mocsta and Bereft are scum. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade.
I'll make a case on the third one near deadline. I gotta go move my little brother now. cya later.

God your annoying...

I asked the question because I am in a headspace where I can look at you without emotion.
I am trying to figure out the motives for your continued trolling since your "confrontation" vote.

Considering a majority hasn't been reached & people reading (Onegu/jampi) haven't voted - you are not under a *great* deal of pressure.

As town, under thread of a mislynch: I would expect you to pull the finger out and start producing cases.

You already said you don't want me dead; yet keep going out of your way to antagonise me.
Unless you think I am scum, I don't see how your actions can line up with a town mentality.


Small tidbit, whilst looking for Rayn in the TL db to check mislynch history, i saw Rean:

Insane Mafia 2 Town Police Tough Guy Killed Night 2
TL Mafia XXXVIII Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 3
Sleeper Cell Mafia Mafia Sleeper Agent Modkilled Day 1
Pick Their Power Mafia Town Psychic Survived

I know Sleepcell is from 2011 but check teh filter
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416&user=Rean&view=all
He has like 2 posts, but they are SO aggressive.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186&user=Rean&view=all
In Pick Their Poewr he is quite casual and short posts.


Rean gameplay doesnt really fit into either of those filters + its from 2011 and things change.
BUT, what i do think is that it shows quite clearly his mentality when scum.

Hesistant to talk, and high-strung/angry.

I think Rean is probably town.


Sorry everyone for not participating at all today but my head is fucking killing me atm and trying to read the thread isnt working at all ._. made it to page 41 so far and gonna stop for today because i just cant focus at all, but wanted to comment on mocsta mentioning old games:

I cant remember why but I know I was so frustrated from RL issues during the sleeper cell game that I didnt focus on it at all and the few posts I made were total shit. I got modkilled for lack of voting and banned for it and I totally deserved it and sat out the bans. You probably shouldn't be using it for meta purposes.

going to sleep now, hopefully i'll feel better tomorrow.


I don't know why a scum player would post this. What would scum rean be trying to accomplish here? The rayn mislynch, or no-lynch, both of which suit scum's purposes, was progressing along just fine. Why wouldn't he sit back and post nothing? Entering the thread with an excuse post with 8 minutes left until a very controversial lynch can only possibly get everyone's attention. People were desperately looking to either find more rayn voters or to find an alternate target. Rean was already well on track to being lynched earlier... surely he would have known not make that post.

Suppose Rean is a scum player with a headache. (I reckon playing scum would give me a headache.) If he'd posted absolutely nothing in that time period he'd look awful now - he'd have completely dodged all discussion about the Rayn lynch, whereas now he at least has an excuse for not having argued one way or another there.

I don't think that he took much of a risk of getting lynched by posting that - that post may attract some attention to him but it hardly makes him look so instantly scummy that he's liable to go from 0 to 7 votes in less than 10 minutes.

The replies he makes when he's pressured by Rayn don't look scummy as such to me, but I don't see anything particularly genuine about them myself either. If you can explain this further I might understand better.

I just can't get past the fact that so very, very little of Rean's filter is him contributing on his own initiative - he's had to be prodded for almost everything he's said all game, and I don't see any insights or evidence of serious analytical thought in the answers he has provided. If he's town I am hoping my vote on him will incite him to perform better in this regard.

I agree with you that Jampidampi's contributions this game have been entirely underwhelming. If the Rean wagon doesn't fly I'm willing to join you on Jampidampi. For the moment though I'm happier where I am.

Also, I'm concerned that if we lynch Jampidampi and he flips town we will have learned almost nothing (hell we won't learn much if he flips scum), whereas if Rean flips town we will at least learn what alignment one of the main wagons of D1 was directed at. This extends to even discussion of their lynches - there's honestly not much to talk about re. a Jampi lynch.
In the above, I am reading a lot about poor play.

- Provides an excuse to not join an important discussion
- Doesn't "feel" genuine
- Doesn't contribute on his own initiative

What I am not reading is why any of this is scum-motive indicative.

Townies have always been guilty for poor play, and plenty of townies will not contribute until asked/pressured.
80/20 rule stands tall.

I must say that this response is *very* underwhelming.
This is exacerbated due to you replying in order to reason why REan is scummy.
Your objective was not achieved - not even remotely.

You are out of my "The Good" bracket Aquanim.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 08:39 GMT
#1293
On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game?

Why is this relevant?
My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer:

(A) you won't believe me;
(B) you will still think I am scummy.

Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch.
You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution.

I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles.

I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game.
In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town.
I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch.



Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that.

Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid.
You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply.
I was stating that the same response in is my filter.

You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.
As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia.

Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 08:42 GMT
#1294
On November 23 2013 17:38 Onegu wrote:
Also a lurker lynch is terrible today mocsta, it gives zero info like aqua said, my lynch is better than his for figureing this game out. But we should lynch mocsta or bereft. Om working on it I swear. Waiting on my CoCoIchibanya now, mmmm so tasty.
Why are you discredting what I am doing as a lurker lynch.

It certainly is not.

I have issues with jampidampi that I have explained numerous times. I want to see answers.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 22:55 GMT
#1351
On November 23 2013 23:21 sciberbia wrote:
@Onegu
I'm unconvinced by your case on Bereft. Here are a few problems I see with it. Convince me I'm wrong.


In the post where you made a case on Mocsta, you quoted Mocsta's case on Cora, but the quoting was messed up so I assume Bereft must have read it as YOUR case on Cora with a case on Mocsta tacked on the end. I guess this proves that he wasn't reading very closely, but I don't see how this makes him scum. Your post was hard to follow. He basically said that he couldn't understand what you were talking about at all so he probably only skimmed it and assumed it was your case + vote on Cora.

It's not true that he never mentions Rean again. He has mentioned rean as someone we should consider lynching today. I don't blame him for not saying more about rean as rean has literally not been posting so it's hard to talk about him. I just went through Rean's filter for Aquanim and I had trouble finding things that weren't already beaten to death.

Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 22:31 Onegu wrote:
And I hate this post he tunneled rayn the entire time, gives reasons why he was ok to lynch him even if he wasnt scum, then says yeah hindsight it was a bad lynch.

This would be a valid point if the bolded were true, but I don't think it is. Bereft never said lynching a town rayn would be good for town, as far as I can recall.
Onto p 67

I've read this Onegu cas on Bereft a few times.

A couple things
(1) I'm leaning towards town being Onegu,
a. I've never seen a scum Onegu make a case
b. Even though its poorly written, I can see understand what he is fixated on.

Scibs, I actually disagree with your point of view regarding the interpretation of Oengu original Mocsta case.

Yes, it was poorly written and extremely easy to skim over and misinterpret.
However, the issue is that Bereft decided to analyse that post in order to give a town read on somebody.
Do you not find it odd that someone would only "skim/barely read" a post in order to give out such an important read.
Consider further that this was the most important content in Onegu filter at the time.

Onegu has convinced me enough to look into Bereft filter and make up my own mind.

Obviously will do that once I'm finished catching up.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:03 GMT
#1352
On November 24 2013 07:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 07:25 Bereft wrote:
really? i must have missed it so can you quote the post?

you were debating before whether scum would rather have rayn alive or dead. what did you conclude and how does conclusion tie in with your reads? i was under the impression you thought they would like to keep him alive so they would almost all be off the rayn train.

do you really think JJD is scum or are you just pissed off with him?

i take it currently your scum reads are HF, onegu, and...? if the scum team is HF, onegu, and X, why would they hold back their NK and be confident enough of a mislynch as you stated earlier? onegu is 1 of the front runners for d2 lynch and HF for d3 (in my head at least).

To be honest I don't really care about what I said. People are going to find a way to twist it to look scummy.
I don't like a post from JJD but I don't think he's scum but I do think he's scum but I'm not going to vote for him and now I'm just rambling on and shitting up the thread and I don't really care and I don't really care and this person is scummy and this is what is going on in my head and i think im so important that i should share every thought i have and i can wish-wash and call people scummy yet not think they are scum and not vote for them and basically waste our time with useless bullshit and tire me out because i just want to play but i get called scum every-other post that i make and scum try to pick on me andandnandandnandnandandnandnandnandnandandnandnandnandnandandn

Matey,

24hrs has passed and there is no strong indication of whether a majority will be lynched.

Where do you think conversation should be directed in the next 24hrs?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:20 GMT
#1355
On November 24 2013 08:04 cDgCorazon wrote:
Talking about how I make scummy posts and then deciding to no-lynch cause no one wants to vote for me.

This is hillarious, because I am just drafting up a post that details the exact same thing.

Honestly, I agree that this is best for the thread.

Its going to be a little bit because I'm still filter diving you.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:21 GMT
#1356
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:30 GMT
#1358
On November 24 2013 08:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Please vote me. It's about time someone put their vote where their mouth is.

So I'm curious Mocsta, why am I so scummy now that I've been prodded to death? Shouldn't I have been scummy for a lot longer? If so, why didn't you point it out earlier? It's called confirmation bias, bro.

You have confirmation bias. I did not state any of the things you mentioned.

It will be clear once I have done my filter-dive. Currently you are null for me.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:36 GMT
#1360
On November 24 2013 08:32 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 08:30 Mocsta wrote:
On November 24 2013 08:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Please vote me. It's about time someone put their vote where their mouth is.

So I'm curious Mocsta, why am I so scummy now that I've been prodded to death? Shouldn't I have been scummy for a lot longer? If so, why didn't you point it out earlier? It's called confirmation bias, bro.

You have confirmation bias. I did not state any of the things you mentioned.

It will be clear once I have done my filter-dive. Currently you are null for me.

IF YOU HAVE A NULL READ ON ME I DONT WANT ANY CASE ON ME FROM YOU. YOU DONT MAKE "NULL CASES"

Once you are done answering Aquanim question; can you please give me your opinino on Scibs response to Onegu.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:45 GMT
#1363
On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?

I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant.

Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive.

I really want to know if Corazon has a different PoV to you.

Can you please convince him to respond.

I'm not chasing any scum slips - I promise Corazon.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:51 GMT
#1365
On November 24 2013 08:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 08:45 Mocsta wrote:
On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:
On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?

I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant.

Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive.

I really want to know if Corazon has a different PoV to you.

Can you please convince him to respond.

I'm not chasing any scum slips - I promise Corazon.

Bullshit

Mate answer the question.

I have an opinion on Scibs interaction with Onegu; and I first want to know if you agree with Aquanim PoV

Just say yes or no if you dont want to detail it in a paragraph.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:55 GMT
#1367
On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?

I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant.

Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive.

Corazon
Do you agree.

Yes or No


You've had time to think about it, so now you can respond as a pre-planned answer
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 23 2013 23:59 GMT
#1370
On November 24 2013 08:56 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 08:55 Mocsta wrote:
On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:
On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?

I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant.

Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive.

Corazon
Do you agree.

Yes or No


You've had time to think about it, so now you can respond as a pre-planned answer

Who cares? I'm scum anyways. Aren't I, Moc?

Actually, Having gone through the first 2 pages of your filter, I find your early day1 play extremely townie.

I shouldnt have to tell you this, to illicit a response from you though.

Heres an example
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

He didn't do it with just me. He told Moc and I that it was scummy that we made troll posts. At least Mocsta was direct in saying who he thought was scummy instead of sciberia who is only doing a "window looking" version of scum hunting.
Another confusing post due to the injection of "Moc & I"
1. Does he have a town lean on me, hence thinks, Scibs calling out of trolling to Corazon then applies to me? (i.e. typecase town) - Unlikely
2. Does he know I am town, hence, trying to lump himself with me (i.e. scum knowledge) - Again, I would have to assume Corazon is good at scum and non-emotional to assume he could be capable of this. Unlikely
3. Misread the argument - Unlikely: He came back from a shower and made that post to Scibs very calmly. It is clear he was in control of what he was writing.
4. Mentioned my name because Bereft brought up my name: Very likely.

Working off point 4 it shows Corazon is at least trying to have a baseline to compare things. Hes putting himself out there whether right or wrong. This is early Day1 and hes already gone out guns blazing and then backing up his views.
Gotta be town.
Think about this <unfortunately its a tell that only works for me>
I know Mocsta is town.
Corazon has a track record with me that isn't too flash.
He *should* be scared of me if he is scum; he *should* be reluctant to post when I am here if he is scum.

Instead, hes putting himself out there, in particular calmly as well. Hes trying to play this game well - just like me. Pretty damn townie.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 00:06 GMT
#1373
On November 24 2013 09:03 cDgCorazon wrote:
For every 1 good post you write about me, you write 5 of these...
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 13:49 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 10:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:
Have some questions for you Cora.

1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself?
On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.


2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday.

Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip.

I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread.

I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it.

At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn.

After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not.

When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration.

TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch.

On a lunch break.

This is a really bad post.

Its very constructed and uses analogies. This is the first time Corazon breaks out a post with this type of construction and notably, he is answering a very important question from Sciberbia that - I think - produces an alignment indicative response.

Do you understand why I am frustrated with you?

If you want me to cooperate, I'm going to make a request from you. You have to not call me "scummy" unless you make a case that encompasses my play the entire game and accompany said case with a vote. I don't want anything else from you about your read on me, even if others ask you for your opinion on me. Is that clear?
Hunny, that is precisely what i am donig.

I am making a stream of consciousness right now as I read your *entire filter*

Hence why I said before that my read before was null.

What I am asking you about scibs -> Onegu is a side story related to Scibs.

I have an opinion on it that I would like to share but I wanted to get some other opinions first. Aqua shared; please, just a yes or no to whether you agree with him.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 00:10 GMT
#1375
On November 24 2013 09:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 09:06 Mocsta wrote:
On November 24 2013 09:03 cDgCorazon wrote:
For every 1 good post you write about me, you write 5 of these...
On November 23 2013 13:49 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 10:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 23 2013 10:38 sciberbia wrote:
Have some questions for you Cora.

1) Can you explain what you were talking about in this post? How exactly did you think rayn was trying to gain town cred by going on a rampage and martyring himself?
On November 22 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really do not like Rayn martyring...tbh the concept of martyring has been beaten to death and I think he's just using it as a ploy to gain town cred.


2) If you think it would have been beneficial to scum to keep rayn alive yesterday EVEN given that he is town, why would you not vote for him yesterday? Surely if you think lynching town!rayn would be bad for scum, then it would be good for town? And if he flipped scum even better, right? I don't see how you reconcile voting for no lynch with claiming that it would have been better for scum to no-lynch yesterday.

Ok, to be honest, the Rayn lynch was basically impossible for me to pick a side. On one hand, I really thought Rayn was town. On the other hand, Rayn's play was very anti-town. It is a very narrow playstyle that Rayn's townplay fits into. He can be town but not an asset to town at the same time. That is the reason I'm not attacking Mocsta after Rayn's flip.

I think I'm being misrepresented (or perhaps I have misrepresented myself) to say that I was against the Rayn lynch. Rayn's really bad townplay, along with the fact that it was a majority lynch, gave me a choice of either lynching someone who I was very confident was town or having him shit up the thread.

I think my thought process would make more sense if I went through it.

At the beginning, when I made all of those "OMG this fight is stupid" posts, it was due to the fact that the thread had become a shitfest and Rayn/everyone else were simply shitting up the thread. I was truly exasperated and angry that the thread had gone out of control and we had gone from some very good discussion on Aqua/myself/Rean to Rayn and only Rayn.

After I came back from school, I was still trying to make a decision whether to vote Rayn or not. When I made the post that you quoted, I think I was trying to justify a Rayn lynch to myself. I knew that it was a dumb lynch but I also knew that I could not do anything about it. Rayn had basically lost it and I did not know whether to give him a second chance or not.

When I got back (about 45 minutes from the deadline), I said to myself "Fuck it, I'm not going to be dragged around and be forced to follow thread sentiment". So I voted for a no-lynch. I knew it was useless to try and suggest because Rayn was already bleeding badly and all of the sharks were floating around him. You guys were tunneled way too hard on Rayn and that was a mistake that I tried to correct earlier but gave up out of frustration.

TL;DR: My town read on Rayn + The shitty town atmosphere Rayn was causing= scenario where no one wins and I'm forced to walk a very fine line to take a neutral stance on Rayn's lynch.

On a lunch break.

This is a really bad post.

Its very constructed and uses analogies. This is the first time Corazon breaks out a post with this type of construction and notably, he is answering a very important question from Sciberbia that - I think - produces an alignment indicative response.

Do you understand why I am frustrated with you?

If you want me to cooperate, I'm going to make a request from you. You have to not call me "scummy" unless you make a case that encompasses my play the entire game and accompany said case with a vote. I don't want anything else from you about your read on me, even if others ask you for your opinion on me. Is that clear?
Hunny, that is precisely what i am donig.

I am making a stream of consciousness right now as I read your *entire filter*

Hence why I said before that my read before was null.

What I am asking you about scibs -> Onegu is a side story related to Scibs.

I have an opinion on it that I would like to share but I wanted to get some other opinions first. Aqua shared; please, just a yes or no to whether you agree with him.

No, I want a promise from you to fulfill my request. Nothing less.
I can't do that. I haven't finished my stream.

Whatever, its your loss.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 00:12 GMT
#1377
On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?

I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant.

Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive.

I disagree - that it makes me feel better about him.

I'm concerned.

So heres context for question 2.
- Scibs from late Day1 has Onegu as his best scum read.

Do you think Scibs was addressing Onegu's case as if he was talking to a top scum read?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 00:26 GMT
#1380
(A)
I'm not happy with how this cycle has started.
Theres been a couple cases - resulting in delurks to dismiss (e.g. Scibs to Onegu); but in my opinion, no one has seriously tried to drive the thread towards a lynch.

Maybe the weekend is a valid excuse - heck I was busy as, yesterday; and somewhat today.
However, I still expect town to make check-ins (much like I did yesterday). Its not hard, is it?
This leads to be disappointed people like Rean/jampidampi are non-existent, and in particular, players like JJD/Bereft have barely posted.

The game is not solved, everyone needs to step up and contribute more: query posts, build cases, push a scum target


(B)
Corazon is starting to become an easy target - and I am concerned.
1. As mentioned already, he is making people hesitant to question him -- which is ideal for scum
2. He is losing his right to be held accountable -- again, this is deal for scum
3. He is losing his transparency (in regards to scum reads) -- again, this is ideal for scum

To me: in order to obtain enough harmony to faciliate a majority lynch I think Corazon needs to be put to bed as the highest priority in this thead.
Either we decide he is town and stop nitpicking him (until there is 1 scum left??); Or decide he is scum and lynch him.

Why?
11 players remain; 3 scum + 8 town.
Majority = 6 votes.
If scum do not want to join us for majority and Corazon is town; that means only one townie can object to the lynch ==> Pretty damn high chance of no-lynch.


(C)
My read on Corazon via Stream of Consciousness
+ Show Spoiler [Day1] +

On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!
Trolling. Weird for Corazon. No read off it.

On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long

time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

corazon is a player that likes to be overly pro-town (like me); so I get why a town Corazon would post the above 3 points. Even though the energy inserted is "selfish" I like the last note. It means hes not posting generic

pro-town spiel for the sake of a contribution. Hes also talking to Sciberbia quite calm (and with hindsight, we know what he builds up to). I do think this is a town indicator - for Corazon.

On November 20 2013 12:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


I'd like to say that mason falls under the role of "standard roles" and could be potentially in this set-up. Very intriguing...
This post still confuses me (i.e. to be able to jump to this conclusion); however, nothing since has

been made of it, so its useless/meaingless.

On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.
I'm confused here. Most times I see players scream for credit on non-confirmed information its scum trying to get town cred for when the flip happens. Its why i didn't

like this post now; nor when i first read it. However, when I think about this: the content of the piggyback is not goign to lead to any town cred. Its such a stupid & meaningless conversation.
It really reads as an emotional outburst of a post.
I haven't read Titatnic to confirm if Corazon is capable of this outburst as scum; but in my mind even if he wasn, as scum you often think before pressing post. I think a scum corazon logically would know this is a waste of a post -

regardles of his emotions - and not bother to post it. Its additional heat for no reward.
I am giving this a town lean.

On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.
Pages of the thread have gone out to this quote.
1. Previously he asked Scibs to stop looking into him.
2. Aqua suggests that there could be content in the first page.
3. Corazon reinforces his comment by stating Scibs is <scummily> "rocking the board".

Now when I think about this: I am not sure why Corazon now upgrades (*publicly) his read to scum on Scibs. If I have a guess, Corazon originally treated it was a weak scum lean so called it out mildly. When queried by Aquanim he uses

stronger language to reinforce his point. I don't think this series of events is out of line for town or scum to make. What I do think is relatively townie is that first part. "Sciberia could be town not understanding people joke".

This actually demonstrates he has an open mindset and is considering both sides of the fence.
Pretty weak, as good scum play also do this -- but I don't know if Corazon fits into this category. I will give a minor lean towards town.

On November 20 2013 13:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

He didn't do it with just me. He told Moc and I that it was scummy that we made troll posts. At least Mocsta was direct in saying who he thought was scummy instead of sciberia who is only doing a "window looking" version of scum

hunting.
Another confusing post due to the injection of "Moc & I"
1. Does he have a town lean on me, hence thinks, Scibs calling out of trolling to Corazon then applies to me? (i.e. typecase town) - Unlikely
2. Does he know I am town, hence, trying to lump himself with me (i.e. scum knowledge) - Again, I would have to assume Corazon is good at scum and non-emotional to assume he could be capable of this. Unlikely
3. Misread the argument - Unlikely: He came back from a shower and made that post to Scibs very calmly. It is clear he was in control of what he was writing.
4. Mentioned my name because Bereft brought up my name: Very likely.

Working off point 4 it shows Corazon is at least trying to have a baseline to compare things. Hes putting himself out there whether right or wrong. This is early Day1 and hes already gone out guns blazing and then backing up his views.
Gotta be town.
Think about this <unfortunately its a tell that only works for me>
I know Mocsta is town.
Corazon has a track record with me that isn't too flash.
He *should* be scared of me if he is scum; he *should* be reluctant to post when I am here if he is scum.

Instead, hes putting himself out there, in particular calmly as well. Hes trying to play this game well - just like me. Pretty damn townie.

On November 20 2013 13:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:18 thrawn2112 wrote:
##vote: cDgCorazon

Is that you Marv?
This joke post is quite telling as well. This is the first vote on Corazon and he makes a joke about it. We obviously know how he now responds to critiques against him, however, the response early game when hes

trying hard to be a better player I think is COMPLETELY indicative of being town.
If scum and trying to play better; I think Coerazon would instantly question/fling shit at Thrawn - or even just ignore it. Instead he just brushes it off and continues on.

On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about

it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
Corazon is consistent in his message. At the time he was very confusing to understand, but in hindsight reading this I know that this all aligns with his posts later on. Good

scum play can be consistent like this too though. I do like that he is willing to keep explaining his message though; it does seem he is phrasing thigns in a way to be clear *and* convincing. Its hard to argue he does not have

emotional conviction either. I disagree scum would be this emotinally involved early game - regardless of being voted/pressured.

On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.
As I stated before. I

think this is town indicative. He was in the midst of a convo with Aqua/Thrawn; and decides to interject here to talk about pro-town stuff (i.e. giving out town reads). Hes not actually calling out Rean as scummy here which to me

indicates he is stating this opinion because he believes in it. Look, scum love to butt in with stuff like this. Its easy - especially if you do believe it. For me the telling point is that he interjected whilst being pressured.
It probably should be a null tell; but I do like it as town. Especially because he explains his ratoinale in his next post:
On November 20 2013 13:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:47 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.


Sure, a good scum read is far more useful. But it might still say something useful. Put it like this, a town read and a scum read is better than just a scum read.

In my opinion, a better thing to ask would be a scum read and someone you would like to know more about. That would facilitate a lot more discussion than only a town/scum read due to the fact that having a town read on someone doesn't do anything for discussion.
what I like here is that he tries to improve the line of reasoning. Yes its still generic spiel, but the moment he chose to pick doesn't scream scum timing to me.

On November 20 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:54 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:47 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.


Sure, a good scum read is far more useful. But it might still say something useful. Put it like this, a town read and a scum read is better than just a scum read.

In my opinion, a better thing to ask would be a scum read and someone you would like to know more about. That would facilitate a lot more discussion than only a town/scum read due to the fact that having a town read on someone doesn't do anything for discussion.


Both are ways to get discussion going, which one is the better just depends on the situation/person I guess. Sometimes people don't have strong scumreads but get a strong townvibe from someone, it's always good for discussion.

Think it just comes down to preference.

Fair enough. I would like to hear Aqua's reads if he's done dodging Rean (although to be fair to him as well he did mention Thrawn's vote as a town indicator for him).
I don't like this post due to the condescension placed. I'm guilty of this all the time though. Its not scummy per se; just makes the person become more unlikeable.

On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11.
Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together.

If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes.

@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.
Importantly, Corazon has a story that Scibs is scum. As town he truly believes it, as scum he pretends it.
I like "why are you trying to ship scib and I together".
He has consistency in his story; and in this scenario, cares MORE that I think scibs is scum, than that Corazon is scum. This is really telling as town. I don't see how this can be argued. Especially, when he asks Scibs to vote now.
(He was called out for this by me later on, and he suggested voting early is useless) but it is clear he did this ebcause he became emotionally excited.
Yes I sound tunneled on cora as town, but its not making sense to me a scum could play like this so far.

On November 21 2013 00:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
Alright I'm going to respond to the general criticism on me, the brunt of it being in Mocsta's case and then everyone else just rewording it.

First of all, most of Mocsta's filter analysis on me said that I had problems reading and that I was scummy. It's really shit casework from Mocsta because he's played multiple times with me and should know that I had a reading problem in general, whether I'm town or scum.

The rest of his case is his confirmation bias and calling sciberia my scummate. Lol.

I'm really surprised and disappointed that I got all the flak for the conversation between sciberia and I. In my opinion his actions were way more scummy and non-conclusive then mine and I believe that it is really hypocritical of everyone to attack me and simply ignore him.

On Aqua: I really agree with a lot of the points raised up against him. What troubles me the most is that he basically attacked Ream for sticking up for me and starting attacking Ream when it looked like my lynch wasn't going to go down. It felt like he was trying too hard to keep the lynch on me and that is what troubles me.

On others: I'm going to reread the thread but I already do not like the fact that sciberia and LoneMeow insist on keeping the conversation on me when the talk is about Aquanim. It's just making the town less focused and less able to discuss a good lynch candidate if they continue to ramble on about me. In my opinion, the first 24 hours should be allowed to free-flow and not have focused discussion (on one person) and the last 24 should be focus on the 2-3 wagons that pop up.

I'm going to reread Aqua and then reread the rest of the thread (pgs 10-13).
Good scum can make posts like this - at least content wise. Its pretty hard to fake the confidence here. Its written naturally. Because its from the standard checklist of how to play scum, I will stick with null.

On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
On Aqua (again):

My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess.

TL;DR
Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment
Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me
This guy is scum

I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out.
I disagree with the case i.e how hardline it is: but its clear with the amount of content that specifically relates to Corazon that he is getting butt-hurt. A tunneled townie could definitely make this post.
I like that he uses a case to justify his decision to not push Sciberbia anymore. It indicates transparency in play. Not a great town tell due to the ease of doing this, but still a good sign none-the-less.

On November 21 2013 01:22 cDgCorazon wrote:
No offense JJD that case is really weaksauce.
None of that stuff points to Rean being hardcore scum. It just points to him needing to be more active in the thread and throw some opinions out.

Do you really think that all of that stuff makes Rean more scummier than Aqua, myself, and sciberia?
I like that Corazon includes himself in the list of scummier people. Not entirely sure why, but it takes balls to do that. Its prob a null read though.



There are then a bunch of posts between him and JJD where there is a genuine misunderstanding based on how long it dragged out and Corazon becoming progressively frustrated. Null overall.


I am running out of time quickly. Got stuff to do today as well.

I will try and look at Corazon stances on important matters (closer to the rayn lynch/rean votes etc) when i get time today (possibly 12 hrs away)

However, from Day1, Corazon is FUCKING townie.

we need to move on and start treating him as an asset to town. Corazon *Can* find scum, we need to let him do this thing.

/ciao
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 00:31 GMT
#1381
On November 24 2013 09:13 Aquanim wrote:
lol never mind

I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response.

But whatevers,

I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon.

Things I remember from Scibs

- Terrible case on Corazon
- Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle
- Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today.

Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sciberbia

If someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead.
until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 04:04 GMT
#1445
scibs.

I'm taking a dump but just wanted to let you know we are both cb'd. at least I admitted I had no time to filter dive you and raised points from recollection. whereas you just ignore what I write outright.

I decided to prioritise vorazon for good reason. its in my posy.. and guess what.
since then coraxon stepped it up and started producing the goods.

corazon like others, I would like yo see onehu case on me before laying down a vote. a lot of what you write seems damning though with the contradictions etc.

I'm feeling a jjd vote. his timeluy felurk only when voted is not resonating well with me.
I was expecting him to give impetus today.

I think aqua is town, nothing to do with his read on me. I was thinking about this before.., hes still posting and trying to solve the game.

I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.

jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote

##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks


aside from the tunnel on cotrazon I can't remember what he has done,
I'm not even sure who his scum reads are.


/arse wiped

I gotta go, be back in say 8hrs
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 04:09 GMT
#1448
really bereft??

seriously, post game I would love to know what is so scummy about my play.

regardless of how I play scum personally, I don't even see how what I'm pushing is scummy?
I get poor play - and I'm extremely time poor this weekend. maybe ibshouldnt try to be a thread driver, but I see no one else taking ownership to move the thread forward

why does it take until a vote is thrown for people to come out of the woodworks.

its ok. I don't think u r scum though. when unconfident its normal to become paranoid.

ciao
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 04:12 GMT
#1450
On November 24 2013 13:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
Oddly enough mocsta that vote makes me feel uneasy about you. I'd like you to explain who your main scumreads are and why, and who is the scummiest out of all of them and why.

I don't have settled thoughts anymore

just lots of play I don't like

its really frustrating everyone has stopped posting

what I have are town reads

you, bereft, aqua and cora

sci is like an ongoing outlier. sometimes Towny, sometimes scummy

so I'm left with the rest yo process of eliminate

none of them is posting

frankly, hokuflare is my favourite vote.. but I can't do it.

plus hes playing co pletely differently to Hogwarts
I have to factor that in too.


I really have to go now. chat later
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 04:13 GMT
#1451
bereft.
lthanks for looking for a phrase but notice onegu called himself hard tunneled

j reaffirmed it for him using his phrase

your welcome yo keep trying if you think it will help
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 05:45 GMT
#1473
If anything

Bereft pointer between the two games where I am confirmed scum; indicates I am town this game.

(1)
When referring to onegu, i call him tunneled and then imemdiately ask him questions to try and probe his alignment.

(2)
When referring to Artanis, I call him tunnel, discredit him and then suggest him to go look for scum elsewhere.

Two extremely different approaches to the same issue (someone tunneling me as scum). The difference in approach is due to motive.
In (2) I just want to get the heat off me. In (1) I am actually trying to figure out if this guy is sincere in his tunnel to justify lack of contribution.




You know what, yes, Bereft. I have come in and given pro-town spiels asking others to contribute whilst throwing very low-mature reads.
In hindsight that's contradictory, yes.

But, I openly acknowledged i have low time this weekedn to play mafia, and its frustrating to specifically make an effort to check in, and the thread count hasn't moved -- and when it does move its the same people talking.
Corazon/Aquanim/myself.

Yes, I need to do less "spiels" and moer "filter diving" with pause before conclusions; and after tonight i will be doing that.

To insinuate scum because I have ben transparent is dumb. However, to take that one step further and consider me a viable lynched.. thats just plain stupid.




Lastly, as others already said, the onyl thing keeping me from lynching Holy is the claim.
I wanted him gone night1 more than anyone else and I raised several valid points against him. The fact remains that his claim is self-confirming.

If he is doctor; scum have *should* shoot him tonight
If there is 2 KP; we lynch him D3.

Even though I think he is scum, I would rather try and find the other 2.

##Unvote
JJD yes that was harsh of a vote. You were one of the people I was expecting to drive the thread this cycle, so I hate detest delurks to counter a vote.

Corazon
Yes, if Onegu doesn't give his case in say the next 6 to 8hrs, I want him lynched. Hes in the same time zone as me; and typically is active starting from around the next 6 hrs.
Hes had ample opportunity to deliver the case, and considering he was fixated on me, should have never really done bereft first.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 06:45 GMT
#1482
On November 24 2013 15:12 Bereft wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about an onegu lynch. I read your case, Cora, along with his filter.

the problem is I find onegu hard to read (both literally and figuratively, the former of which has led to his scum read on me unfortunately).

I'm actually very willing to consider that he might be town right now, because his tone sounds very genuine. also, the post where he gave me an out / an opportunity to play the newbie card stands out. I don't see why he would do this as scum:

Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 19:05 Onegu wrote:
@bereft

Serious question how new are you? This drasticly influeances my read on you. Im going to make my case on you anyway because its halfway done and alot of is still relevant for you to answer


he quoted me on this in his filter (I'd forgotten I'd said this):
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 02:19 Bereft wrote:
also cmon Onegu m'boy. I gave you a town read when no one else thought so. live up to the high hopes I have for you and make the right vote!

this will be I-RO-NIC if mocsta's scum.
This is good for discussion.

his tone sounds very genuine

Fair enough, but what is he discussing that sound genuine?

Is any of it related to hunting scum; or is it related to personal opinion/commentary?

newbie card gave me an out

Did it give you an out; or an opportunity for him not to present his case?

I dont recall reading you responding to the case; if you did apologies.
If not, did you think the case had merit?
Did you think the case would have *MORE* merit if it included "newbie card" factors?

At times in this game you have been aggressive and assertive; and other times you have bucked the trend and admitted a policy lynch... What type of newbie does this? I would argue the point is moot.




Tunnel on Mocsta

Who has the biggest "official" tunnel read on me in the thread
Onegu? Holyfalre? JJD? Bereft?

Apparently Onegu (Followed closely by Holyflare)

Who has actually voiced their concerns publicly in a transparent way.
No one (but kinda transparent = JJD + Bereft)

All Onegu/Holyflare have done is discredit. Heck, Onegu has been calling me scum for what 5 days of real life now? Yet no case has materialised.

Why have players like Bereft/JJd been able to voice concerns about my play over this interval and they arent the strongest advocate of my lynch?

Food for thought




Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 06:47 GMT
#1485
Scibs

I completely endorse that post of yours on p74, 100%

As for the host question, may have to PM it to him.

Unfortunately, I think its still too early to talk about modkills. These "dipshits" often post in the last 10 minute of the cycle screwing up all planning that occurs - as town or scum.

A majority may be difficult as well??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 07:07 GMT
#1495
hey scibs,
at least we are both suspicious of each other.

but I'm surprised u think onegu is a good scum player?
he enjoys playing scum,but skates by all his games by being allowed to useless as town or scum. hardly anything to be proud of.

what do you think regarding the discussion prompters I put up from berefts comments?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 07:09 GMT
#1496
On November 24 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
So here I am most definitely the best lynch today:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 09:13 Aquanim wrote:
lol never mind

I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response.

But whatevers,

I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon.

Things I remember from Scibs

- Terrible case on Corazon
- Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle
- Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today.

Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sciberbia

If someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead.
until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today.



And here 4 hours later I'm not even in your top 4.
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.

jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote

##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks




Nobody "did a filter dive while you were gone" and proved I was town, so what's the reasoning for this?
nothing. you constantly make me paranoid with absense. so I make a point against you and you alleviate that paranoia.

painful but true.

gonna be out for 3 to 4 hrs now. if you want anything else, lemme k ow
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 09:07 GMT
#1515
##vote: jarjardrinks*

Lets get a majority people !!!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:03 GMT
#1530
hmmmm

gonna read jjd filter now.

I'm disappointed onegu is still a no show.

I think the lynch will be between these two players.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:19 GMT
#1531
On November 21 2013 01:12 JarJarDrinks wrote:
K, so I think Rean looks pretty bad too. Like really bad. Almost every one of his posts seem scummy to me.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.



Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>
Says nothing about the game. Makes an empty threat. Posts completely obvious stuff.


Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.
That's not what he thinks of Mocsta. That's telling us how Mocsta has been acting. It's a recap and nothing more. Did he really think that Bereft was asking how Mocsta was acting and NOT whether he though he scummy or not?

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:14 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?


I'd say town, scum is typically more laidback. But could just be a good scumbag.
So Aqua follows up and he give a very non-committal answer of "probably town but could be scum".

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.
@ least aqua is asking stuff. Rean never asked a question or gave any read, aside from the non read I posted above after he was asked TWICE. All his posts were stating the obvious/answering questions unrelated to reads.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
Now here he seems to defend cora. He said earlier that he liked coras case on sci. He tells Moc that he's falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap. And then again w/ the same non-committal read he gave Mocsta with "seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red".

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.


B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.

And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind.

On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.

@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?


To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.

So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
So apparently, he now has a scumread from cora? Wasn't he JUST defending him?

##Vote: Rean
thrawn

note jjd last point on rean. then note his intro line on nominating rean as scum.

it encapsulates.. more scummy TO ME

this was a pretty detailed post from jjd and was one of the reasons I had a town read on him.. I'm considering jjd sensed rean was going down and bussed him. I haven't checked vote counts to sense timing awareness though.

I'm on tablet tonight so its really hard to quote, but before this jjd goes from scum read on me to unjustified scum read on corazon to this read on rean. I do find it odd that jjd in his first post analysis of team states he is doing nothing, when he is in fact calling out his former scum read corazon.

food for thought
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:28 GMT
#1533
On November 21 2013 01:43 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Sorry to repost this again but wanted everyone to know what post we're all talking about since there seems to be some dispute:
Show nested quote +
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
So Cora, who thinks sciberia was making a calculated scum play, decides that correct thing to say about it is to tell him to stop.

He then gives the person that he believes is smart scum advice on how to find scum.
after the rean case, jjd spends a lot of time talking about corazon rocking the boat.

in fairness he was questioned about it by people like jampi, myself, corqzon so its unfair to state he instantly dropped his suspicions on rean.

what I find odd here is that hes not explaining why these points in corazin are conducive to hunting scum.
hes calling out poor/bad play, nothing more.
the disconcerting part is that he is phrasing his points as if they are indeed scummy.

consider his articulation with the rean case. why the sudden inability yo be specific with scum motivation here?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:29 GMT
#1534
On November 24 2013 23:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 22:29 sciberbia wrote:
@JJD
Have you reread Onegu and HolyFlare? What are your conclusions?

Who do you want to lynch today?
I've read though Onegu filter a bunch of times now and I never come away thinking he's scum. We were scumbuddies once and though we won, I wasn,t paticularly impressed w/ his scum play. If onegu's scum here, he's playing it so much better than in our game.

I've read through HF and he come's off as scummy to me. But the Doc claim makes no sense for scum. That's why, as thrawn pointed, I spent a lot of time talking the claim.

I'd probably like to lynch the guy that just replaced in and dropped a random vote w/ like no explaination. And I'm sure someone will say something along the lines of "OMG scum just wants to go after the easy target", but whatever. Jampi was a scummy lurker and it's gonna be forever (barring a scumslip or something) before we get enough on the new guy.

so in short. you want town to continue to policy lynch. correct?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:34 GMT
#1535
On November 21 2013 04:01 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:50 Mocsta wrote:
"Did you read the Thrawn case?" (on Aquanim)

Yeah, it seems like his reason is basically because aqua isn't scumhunting. I disagree. Aqua is all over Rean for similiar reasons that I (and several others) are. He agree's w/ me on the cora/sci situation, even if he doesn't quite think it makes cora scum like I do.

I mean, a huge part of thrawns case is that Aqua is accusing Rean. Which I think is a very town thing to do.


here jjd acknowledges he still has a scum read on corazon.

so I'm perplexed why he ignored rean calling put corazon in his case..


that aside, I find it odd given jjd case on rean that he would not request a lurker lynch on rean.
maybe its because he hasn't been replaced yet, but still odd in general.

3 scum, and he wants to take pot luck on a replacement?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:40 GMT
#1537
On November 21 2013 06:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 05:56 cDgCorazon wrote:
JJD. I'm done with that. If you fail to read my filter then I don't feel obliged to answer the same questions over and over again.
I have read your filter.

No need to answer it again it you did, just please link or quote a post where you explain the reason you had a scumread on sciberia @ that point in the game that isn't because of his first post.

prior I also felt jjd continuation of corqzon was townie.. I,e dog with a bone

however thinking about it more, hes trying to catch corazon out in a lie, but why is this so important to devote over 10posts to?

at no time does he articulate why this sequence from corazon is scummy


the dog with the bone thing is what is bugging me the most. its why I expected jjd to give impetusnthis weekend. he blames activity but he wasnt here much since before the weekend started either.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:42 GMT
#1538
bereft,

regarding the doc claim.., I'm inclined to believe hokyflare.. something so outrageous is fucking ballsy as scum. holy has big balls, but this claim is self confirming. let it run its course.


regarding jjd, since you are familat please look over the things I'm starting to point out,
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 14:46 GMT
#1539
On November 21 2013 06:53 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 06:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yeah it better be ok because it's the last I'm answering about it. You're not reading my filter...I made several posts about where I talk about why I was suspicious of Sci. The end.

You don't get to end it. Would you rather I vote for you instead of question you about it? Stop saying I'm not reading your filter because I've read it more than I've read anyone elses as evidenced by the fact that I've quoted the shit out of it.

The bottom line is:

- You said Sci was scummy for his page 1 post
- You later said that you would not base a scum read off of page 1 posts
- You refuse to acknowledge or defend the above

Now I'll stop if you want and are saying you're not gonna address this anymore. But what I posted above are all facts that people should be aware of.

I like this post.

feels pretty sincere as a response
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 15:02 GMT
#1542
On November 21 2013 22:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote:

The Good: {Thrawn, JarJarDrinks, Aquanim, Bereft}

The Bad: {Onegu, LoneMeow, Rayn, Sciberbia}

The Ugly: {Rean, jampidampi, Corazon}
<3 you man. Pretty much my reads exactly. Though I'd probably move Scib and Onegu up to the green group. Rayn has fallen way down for me from his early game. If I was gonna remove anyone from the reds, Rayne would probably take their place.

The only thing troubling, and I think you touched on this earlier, I'm not sure if I'm crazy about a Rean/Cora scumteam. Would need to reread a bunch but I think that can be worried about after the flip.

jjd has been pushing cora/rean as his two leads a, and is now doubting their coexidtance.

I find this odd.

here he assets rayn has fallen to a scum read. which implies he had a preexisting town read. I don't think the phrasing allows for null.

On November 22 2013 00:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I don't like anty lynch aside from Rayn or Rean here. Rayn made his move and got all the votes off Rean. If we switch to someone else, we're letting him dictate the vote. If we move off Rayne, they need to go back to Rean.

this suggests he thought rayn was trying to save reany. hence the scum read on both.
I don't mind this as a town tell because at the time I had considered the same theory.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 15:10 GMT
#1543
On November 24 2013 23:57 Bereft wrote:
hi mocsta, i saw you sent me some discussion prompters last night. i promise i'll get to them. but first, i wanted to address this:

Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 16:09 Mocsta wrote:
On November 24 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
So here I am most definitely the best lynch today:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 09:13 Aquanim wrote:
lol never mind

I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response.

But whatevers,

I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon.

Things I remember from Scibs

- Terrible case on Corazon
- Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle
- Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today.

Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sciberbia

If someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead.
until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today.



And here 4 hours later I'm not even in your top 4.
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.

jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote

##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks




Nobody "did a filter dive while you were gone" and proved I was town, so what's the reasoning for this?
nothing. you constantly make me paranoid with absense. so I make a point against you and you alleviate that paranoia.

painful but true.

gonna be out for 3 to 4 hrs now. if you want anything else, lemme k ow


can you please expand on what specifically alleviated your concerns on sciberia?

you say that it's his absence that made you paranoid. but in your actual vote, you make no mention that his absence is a concern:+ Show Spoiler +

On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 09:13 Aquanim wrote:
lol never mind

I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response.

But whatevers,

I obviously haven't had a chance to look into Scibs filter in detail (or at all) since i was consumed with Corazon.

Things I remember from Scibs

- Terrible case on Corazon
- Came in and gave a town read on Rayn, and then semi-AFK'd, he stated he wanted Onegu lynched as a priority but it was clear he was happy playing second-fiddle
- Gives a defense of Bereft; and if Onegu was his best scum read, *SHOULD* have followed through with why Onegu is intentionally misrepresenting play and why Onegu is the best lynch for today.

Essentially 2 cycles in a row, Scibs is happy emailing everyone a bulletin of his intentions and doing nothing to campaign for them.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sciberbia

If someone wants to filter dive him whilst I'm gone, and prove otherwise - go ahead.
until that point in time, he is most definitely the best lynch for today.


furthermore, you said this:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 14:45 Mocsta wrote:
If anything

Bereft pointer between the two games where I am confirmed scum; indicates I am town this game.

(1)
When referring to onegu, i call him tunneled and then imemdiately ask him questions to try and probe his alignment.

(2)
When referring to Artanis, I call him tunnel, discredit him and then suggest him to go look for scum elsewhere.

Two extremely different approaches to the same issue (someone tunneling me as scum). The difference in approach is due to motive.
In (2) I just want to get the heat off me. In (1) I am actually trying to figure out if this guy is sincere in his tunnel to justify lack of contribution.

is this not an attempt at discrediting my opinion?
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 13:09 Mocsta wrote:
really bereft??

seriously, post game I would love to know what is so scummy about my play.

regardless of how I play scum personally, I don't even see how what I'm pushing is scummy?
I get poor play - and I'm extremely time poor this weekend. maybe ibshouldnt try to be a thread driver, but I see no one else taking ownership to move the thread forward

why does it take until a vote is thrown for people to come out of the woodworks.

its ok. I don't think u r scum though. when unconfident its normal to become paranoid.

ciao

2.
no thats not a discredit. thats me stating I find you to be not confident in tpyour reads.
discredit would be to call you a noon and insinuate younpack scum hunting capability.

my point was, when uncertain its easy to jump over anything that doesn't agree with your opinion.,,, notice I have done that a lot this cycle. hence, I think you are unconfident town, rather than scum taking an opportune moment to discredit me

1. I can't really explain it. hes sitting in this awkward zone for me where he seems to care about the lynch. but is inactive enough not to have thread presence to campaign.
I.e, ideal lblending spot for scum,

if there is active svum in this game. by virtue of activity it would be sciberbisa.can cross that bridge when one scum is left thoguh
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 15:26 GMT
#1545
On November 22 2013 22:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:
K, not gonna apologize about the flip. I'm sure I'll have plenty say to Rayn post-game. Escpecially if Rean really is scum (which I still think).

Gonna reread Onegu but I haven't thought he was scum @ all this game so I doubt that's gonna change. Not crazy about Holyflare so gonna look close @ him.

Also gonna look into Rayns other scumreads though I don't know how much stock I can put into them because of how wrong he was about me. But I don't feel like he could really go 0 for 3 in his reads so if I had to choose 1 scum between Moc and Bereft, right now I'm gonna say it's Moc. But this is before my reread.

I don't mind jjd interactions with rayn once he was a candidate.

they read as genuinely hard pressed that rayn hard divertedbthe dean lynch.

that makes me lean town on jjd regardless of his presence 2hrs from lynch,


I find it odd that jdd throws out the second part suggesting rayn must have had at least 1 read right. I don't get the motive for this.


as an aside, jjd filter reminded me of jampidampi not wanting to vote rayn stating he did this in nuclear Mafia.
this is quite a composed stance yto take, akin to deciding that corazin was early tuenneled prior.

I'm actually not wanting to lynch jjd based on his consistency, I'm really feeling a chezinu lynch.

either away. I'm going to bed, and will be around 4 hrs from lynch.

cpi know I posted butt loads and it wasn't t ideal,
but can you please all look into jampidampi?

p?s? onrgu, I'm still waiting for that case,
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 15:28 GMT
#1546
On November 25 2013 00:16 Bereft wrote:
i can understand that, but how does that go from BEST LYNCH CANDIDATE, to at least your 5th or lower lynch choice?

I think I said at that point in time.

that meant literally for me at that snap shot I liked him the most. its more a sighn of my uncertainty than anything else.

my uncertainty is from lack of time to mature thoughts.. and lack of thread development by others to progress my thoughts..hence back at square one
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 24 2013 15:33 GMT
#1547
uugghhhh

reading jjd night 1 hes back to null

I don't get the direction hes heading in to scum hunt.

will think this over sleep.

sorry again for in flux of posts. I know its annoying
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 00:04 GMT
#1661
Guys,

Im in deep shit at work today and this will probably be my second last post.



(1)
I read through Onegu case, its pretty bad.
He goes through all my actions but its clear he has already determined to call everything scum; further, a lot of the time he says I have zero justifcation -- when the justification is within a few posts up.

All up, I actually think Onegu is town.

Simply due to the effort; that case is a monster of effort.
I agree the case is bad but I don't think its bad in an intentionally miscontrued type of way.
The simplest explanation is confirmation bias on a townie.
I truly do not expect scum to go to *that* much effort to make such a simple case (i.e post-by-post analysis).



(2)
Though Holyflare is a bad choice of lynch for today as he is self-confirming.

It really agitates me that he chooses to live vicariously through others.

He did not cast a vote on me until others did it; for someone that is so time poor, I can't understand why he is even posting.



(3)
It is possible we need to ##no-lynch today.

I think the best lynch candidates are between

JJD / Holyflare / Rean / jampidampi

Holy is not lynchable
Jampi has such a low filter he feels like a lottery
Rean has been absent for so long also feels some-what like a lottery
JJD may be the most townie of the bunch.

It might be best to no-lynch and hope that Holy is doctor and gets a save mitigating the damage; otherwise I have really low confidence levels for this lynch.



I'm sorry i can't be of more help.

For those concerned about my vote switches, Corazon in paticular - you should know better.

As scum, I hold onto reads and push them continuously as jusitifed contributions.
e.g. personality 2 (my tunnel on you)
or even our newbies (my tunnel on warbaby).

As town, everyone knows I flip-flop continuously as new information is presented.
again Corazon you know this from our newbies.

Unfortunately, I tend to flip-flop more as people stop posting. Low activity makes me suspicious of anyone in general -- mainly because I make an effort to post regardless of how busy I am, so I expect others to do the same.



Lastly, I will check in maybe 30min to 60min before the lynch.
And consolidate my vote with my top town reads (Aqua, Thrawn, Corazon, Bereft).

I won't be responding to anything between now and then.

If a no-lynch is not on the cards; my preference is to lynch jampidampi's spot.

I find it concerning he had the thread awareness to identify Corazon as emotionally tunneled & rayns play as matching Nuclear Mafia. Two town reads to give that are easy with scum knowledge, and difficult to make as an uncertain townie.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 00:05 GMT
#1662
##Unvote
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 00:52 GMT
#1709
Quick breather.

Note both scibs and I thought onegu was scum
And both scibs and I think onegu is genuine about wanting to lynch me, thus think he is town

Regarding jarjar
Last night I didn't read his day2

Does anyone know what his top scum reads are and why?
Has he actually pushed anything, or has just gotten into dialogue with holyflare about claiming?

If the above is no and yes, that will indicate he has no care for this lynch and is a good candidate for consolidation
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 00:53 GMT
#1710
On Novem 09:45 Holyflare wrote:
7

???

I played with you in hogwarts as town
Mafia lxii as scum
And this game

I think I hosted/coaches a game you played in too
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:19 GMT
#1732
Sciberbia
Sigh berberia
Sigh

Cy
Cy berbia
Cy Borg


Omg.. chez and scuba are the same alignment... Lynch lynch lynch
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:20 GMT
#1733
On November 25 2013 10:19 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 10:17 sciberbia wrote:
@Holyflare
Please stop dicking around with Chezinu and tell us who you want us to lynch today. In case you haven't noticed everyone else is debating between JJD and Onegu. Care to weigh in?


mocsta

Why did you replace in if you are going to play like this.

This is a back to basics game.. seriously man.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:34 GMT
#1743
Ok

Can anyone please look at the questions I proposed like one or two posts ago about jjd

I actually don't have enough time to filter dive so can't verify.


If those answers are no and yes, I will support a consolidated vote on JJD
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:40 GMT
#1751
Thanks guys for the feedback.
I feel as frantic with the rayyn lynch.

Whereas two cycles in a row he diesnt care.

Why is it that it's all the same people talking at this pivotal time.

I'm confident we are all town, and scum are letting us in fight with each other.

Yes, wagon of justice.

##vote: jarjardrinks

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:47 GMT
#1763
Onegu I read it and commented

It's a bad case and misses things I know that exist in my filter.

I do t thinkthe cherry picking was malicious. I actually believe you think I am scum.

You are as bad a lynch today as me.


Jjd even now shows no care. Just promises of activity. Does he truly read to you as town fighting for his life??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:49 GMT
#1765
Hmmm. On the other hand. Jjd could have a strong read on rean. That without more posts from rean there wasn't much more to discuss..

What is more viable. A jjd lynch or no lynch??

I'm scared cos of slams vote.. it's really opportune as if he was waiting for a window
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:51 GMT
#1767
On November 25 2013 10:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
the only thing that bothers me about mocsta is his town read on onegu..

The only reason I thinks scum onejgu would make that massive case is if he took offense to me calling him useless as scum to skate by.

Yes, that's possible... But the posting style was consistent with efforts before I made that comment.

I'm inclined to think he is genuine about thinking I am.scum, so has to be town.

He's not my best town read, it enough to. It be a target today in my opinion.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 01:53 GMT
#1769
On November 25 2013 10:46 Alakaslam wrote:
Well I am going to have to leave, I do hope to be more useful tomorrow. Please don't make me lose it!... I don't mind criticism however will not see till tomorrow.

##Vote: Jar Jar Drinks

I don't like this vote at all
Thoughts??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:04 GMT
#1777
On November 25 2013 10:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 10:53 Mocsta wrote:
On November 25 2013 10:46 Alakaslam wrote:
Well I am going to have to leave, I do hope to be more useful tomorrow. Please don't make me lose it!... I don't mind criticism however will not see till tomorrow.

##Vote: Jar Jar Drinks

I don't like this vote at all
Thoughts??


You go first

I can't remember what slot he is
I don't like it cos of the convenience of the timing

I suppose if he had to go it's not too bad to consolidate. Too much uncertainty, is null.

Lets stick with jjd
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:06 GMT
#1779
I get jjd vote not on himself.

Chez. Why are you voting onegu again?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:13 GMT
#1784
If rean is scum. What do you expect the movement to mean?

This isbprob a good contribution if you flip town.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:24 GMT
#1789
Onegu. I only have limited time and I don't think retorting post for post will change your read
Perhaps your issue is that you expect a case to precede a vote. I don't work that way, and neither do a lot of other players. By case i mean a full blown analysis.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:25 GMT
#1790
On November 25 2013 11:13 Mocsta wrote:
If rean is scum. What do you expect the movement to mean?

This isbprob a good contribution if you flip town.

For you jjd
30min till lynch. Please have a go at this one.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:37 GMT
#1794
On November 25 2013 07:20 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
While I think it is a great case Onegu (and your recent activity has earned my unvote), I'm worried that killing Mocsta will put the thread to a screeching halt like it has been for most of D2. Look how inactive the thread has been with Mocsta's limited time to play this weekend.

In my opinion, Mocsta is one of those players who will either:

a)get killed in the first 2-3 nights
or
b)be lynched due to his behavior

A town Mocsta is a really good asset for town. Scum will be looking to nightkill him ASAP and if they don't do that, then there is a good chance he is one of them.

I'm not disagreeing with you because of my read on your or your points in the case- I just disagree with the principle of lynching Mocsta right now.

Is there anyone outside of Mocsta/Bereft you would be ok with lynching?

Mocsta already thinks I'm scum. I'm totes ready to OMGUS but I want to try and see why first.

Faugh. I went from harrowing to potentially harrowing. Let's check this out...

Onegu, enlighten me.

Did I think Rean was scum at this time? I wrote a lot of spiel on JJD last night and even voted him. So I find this comment out of place as an intro.

Thoughts?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:37 GMT
#1795
Slam filter btw.. because its not in the OP

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&user=alakaslam
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:44 GMT
#1798
Fark.

Look my vote isn't needed ##Unvote
##Vote: Alakaslam


Sorry for the itching fingers

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:45 GMT
#1800
Thoughts.

JJD has some aspects that are really townie
and then is getting pulled up as scum for not being present - which is not purely scum indicative.
I almost feel this is a repeat of the rayn lynch (policy lynching bad play).. the difference is that raynw as actively shitting up the thread vs JJD.

I can't do it.. congrats if he flips scum; but I can't do it.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:46 GMT
#1801
On November 25 2013 11:44 Onegu wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 07:20 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
While I think it is a great case Onegu (and your recent activity has earned my unvote), I'm worried that killing Mocsta will put the thread to a screeching halt like it has been for most of D2. Look how inactive the thread has been with Mocsta's limited time to play this weekend.

In my opinion, Mocsta is one of those players who will either:

a)get killed in the first 2-3 nights
or
b)be lynched due to his behavior

A town Mocsta is a really good asset for town. Scum will be looking to nightkill him ASAP and if they don't do that, then there is a good chance he is one of them.

I'm not disagreeing with you because of my read on your or your points in the case- I just disagree with the principle of lynching Mocsta right now.

Is there anyone outside of Mocsta/Bereft you would be ok with lynching?

Mocsta already thinks I'm scum. I'm totes ready to OMGUS but I want to try and see why first.

Faugh. I went from harrowing to potentially harrowing. Let's check this out...

Onegu, enlighten me.

Did I think Rean was scum at this time? I wrote a lot of spiel on JJD last night and even voted him. So I find this comment out of place as an intro.

Thoughts?


On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
scibs.

I'm taking a dump but just wanted to let you know we are both cb'd. at least I admitted I had no time to filter dive you and raised points from recollection. whereas you just ignore what I write outright.

I decided to prioritise vorazon for good reason. its in my posy.. and guess what.
since then coraxon stepped it up and started producing the goods.

corazon like others, I would like yo see onehu case on me before laying down a vote. a lot of what you write seems damning though with the contradictions etc.

I'm feeling a jjd vote. his timeluy felurk only when voted is not resonating well with me.
I was expecting him to give impetus today.

I think aqua is town, nothing to do with his read on me. I was thinking about this before.., hes still posting and trying to solve the game.

I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.

jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote


##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks


aside from the tunnel on cotrazon I can't remember what he has done,
I'm not even sure who his scum reads are.


/arse wiped

I gotta go, be back in say 8hrs



You mean here where you vote JJD, but also say rean is a good lynch?

Yeah I would say slam is right.

How can you not keep your reads straight?
I didnt vote him; you get too fixated on the phrase, and not enough on the intent.

I can say all 11 people are scummy; fact is, I have one vote. Thats the action that *does* matter.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:49 GMT
#1802
On November 25 2013 08:35 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 08:28 Holyflare wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:24 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok, just reading from the vote post, I can see who I like and who I don't particularly care for. But could someone help me here;

Is jar jar drinks scummier than Mocsta or vice versa? Why? Should these wagons exist? Why or why not? I haven't got the full time period until lynch to be here and I kind of owe the first /in


Mocsta is scum, I don't know why cora is defending him so hard. Activity will pick up, it's the weekend, people are busy/have lives but he isn't accepting it and is just attacking people that deface him or defending mocsta for no good reason. He's not saying WHY mocsta is very towny or systematically going through people's cases to acknowledge their points and say "oh here's a good point on why he is town", he's waiting for the person in question to return so he isn't held responsible if he makes a mistake defending his team mate.

I'm pretty certain cora and mocsta are scum together. I will make cases soon™.

Ah, jeez man. Maybe Cora is "defending him so hard" because he doesn't agree? It seems Aqua holds the same opinion! You look like CONF BIAS embodied to me sometimes. But that could be because I'm fighting you tooth and claw elsewhere until recently discovering that was a strawman so I need to make sure there is no other such flaw here that I see, but thanks for your input...

Many people aren't here it seems, that is a very useful tidbit. Probably not what you meant to convince me of but I rather not be convinced against my will -_- I guess rean was just gone longer?

I like this post.. Specifically the reference to Holyflare.
Its out of game context though.

##Unvote

##Vote: Chezinu Guy has disappeared now that a wagon is on JarJarDrinks

Chez can be useful in his own way and has decided to jsut troll.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:52 GMT
#1804
I treated it differently because of the timestamps. I checked my filter specifically for what I said around that time.

Anyways; he reads as if he is having fun/enjoying himself & i like the HF reference. So hes off my books for the time being.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:56 GMT
#1809
Onegu's followup with me is good. Hes calling out good stuff which is making me feel nervous -- I really think he is town guys.
More than a feeling now.

I like a HF (lone) / chez (jampi) / <xxx> team

By PoE, kinda left with JJD as lowest ranking of twon reads?

kk

##Unvote
##Vote: JJD

Im not confident on this though..
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 02:59 GMT
#1815
On November 25 2013 11:54 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 11:46 Mocsta wrote:
On November 25 2013 11:44 Onegu wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 25 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 07:20 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
While I think it is a great case Onegu (and your recent activity has earned my unvote), I'm worried that killing Mocsta will put the thread to a screeching halt like it has been for most of D2. Look how inactive the thread has been with Mocsta's limited time to play this weekend.

In my opinion, Mocsta is one of those players who will either:

a)get killed in the first 2-3 nights
or
b)be lynched due to his behavior

A town Mocsta is a really good asset for town. Scum will be looking to nightkill him ASAP and if they don't do that, then there is a good chance he is one of them.

I'm not disagreeing with you because of my read on your or your points in the case- I just disagree with the principle of lynching Mocsta right now.

Is there anyone outside of Mocsta/Bereft you would be ok with lynching?

Mocsta already thinks I'm scum. I'm totes ready to OMGUS but I want to try and see why first.

Faugh. I went from harrowing to potentially harrowing. Let's check this out...

Onegu, enlighten me.

Did I think Rean was scum at this time? I wrote a lot of spiel on JJD last night and even voted him. So I find this comment out of place as an intro.

Thoughts?


On November 24 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:
scibs.

I'm taking a dump but just wanted to let you know we are both cb'd. at least I admitted I had no time to filter dive you and raised points from recollection. whereas you just ignore what I write outright.

I decided to prioritise vorazon for good reason. its in my posy.. and guess what.
since then coraxon stepped it up and started producing the goods.

corazon like others, I would like yo see onehu case on me before laying down a vote. a lot of what you write seems damning though with the contradictions etc.

I'm feeling a jjd vote. his timeluy felurk only when voted is not resonating well with me.
I was expecting him to give impetus today.

I think aqua is town, nothing to do with his read on me. I was thinking about this before.., hes still posting and trying to solve the game.

I'm liking a lunch between jjd/onegu jampi/rean today.

jampi/rean might be modkilled so I'm going to join and vote


##unvote
##votte: jarjardrinks


aside from the tunnel on cotrazon I can't remember what he has done,
I'm not even sure who his scum reads are.


/arse wiped

I gotta go, be back in say 8hrs



You mean here where you vote JJD, but also say rean is a good lynch?

Yeah I would say slam is right.

How can you not keep your reads straight?
I didnt vote him; you get too fixated on the phrase, and not enough on the intent.

I can say all 11 people are scummy; fact is, I have one vote. Thats the action that *does* matter.



Slam said you thought he was scum, slam was right, are only the people you vote people you consider scum?
My vote is usually indicative of who my strongest read is.
Of course I use it to pressure as well.
When I call people scummy loosely, it will typically infer I am suspicious. Which indicates some sort of lean depending on how I feel at the time. I rarely have hard thoughts either.

The biggest differentiator between my town play and scum play is my willingness to consider options (or lack of as scum)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:01 GMT
#1822
fuckn chezinu.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:01 GMT
#1823
Im sorry JJD.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:03 GMT
#1827
KK, onegu, get it off your chest. Call me scum for flip flopping my position on JJD.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:07 GMT
#1832
Corazon you said you were scum in titanic.

Were you jacksparrow?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:13 GMT
#1835
What do you think of the backpedals from Thrawn and myself?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:18 GMT
#1839
@Alakaslam

Are you trying to change your typing style this game as well?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 03:21 GMT
#1841
Yes, I know I'm playing like crap for the past 72 hrs.

OK, you are biased against Onegu the other way; maybe what I am interpreting and positive signs are actually null.

What do you make of Onegu followups with me? I mean, of course either alignment will follow up a case; but he actually almost seems too excited to provide "evidence" to support his thoughts - to be faking it.
As in, hes not harping on the same point and banging the same drum. Hes readjusting his position as I readjust mine.
I just find in general to be a tell more applicable to town, as scum usually just want to discredit so are happy the point is being discussed in the first place.

Thoughts?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 04:06 GMT
#1843
Corazon, I think Onegu is town.

After a filter dive this post *really* sticks out to me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=38#756

Below are highlights to re enforce my point:
On November 22 2013 04:33 Onegu wrote:
Rean
-When responding to the wishy washy post he made being called out gives another wishy washy post saying Im very scummy but I could just be stupid, then says I am a distraction.

-Says if Aqua flips town Im a good lynch the next day. How are me and Aqua connected how am I not a good lynch reguardless of aquas flip

JarJarDrinks
-Agree with almost all of his thoughts, we think almost the same things

-Defends me to sciberia

Rayn
-Calls out posts not needed to be called out like aqua not voteing his top scum read

-Rayn calling me scum but not looking at past mini games, his meta reads on me are so bad

-Doesnt look like he believes his case on aqua, harping the same point over and over when that point isnt scummy --> Oriignally Onegu "felt" Rayn was scummy, this is most likely why

-The post where rayn calls out aqua for his spicydinosaur post was really good --> This is the turning point where he considers Rayn town, and then changes his perspective on people that still think Rayn is scummy

-Then he somewhat defemds me, but uses correct meta

-Unless is trying to do what I did in WC as scum which I dont see he really is town

-Rayn saying those are scumclaims, wrong, but from a town rayn

Mocsta
-Randomly flips his read on me but its for a BS reason as the reason he gives I am perfectly capable of doing as scum

-Not sure how he thinks my atk on marv could be different if I was scum this game and atkd him

-Dont like his atk on rayn.

Sciberia
-Makes a case on me when everyone elae was calling me scummy but not doing anything about it \townie

-His defense of aquas spicydino post looks bad

-His tunnel on me still looks good though

-Calls out Reans wishy washy post on me being scummy but not likeing my wagon\ town poimts

-Continues to call me scum even though thread thoughts habe somewhat changed and everything going on around him\ townie

-His case on mocsta is ok but not greadt

These "highlights" mainly relate to happenings around Onegu. His filter also indicates he originally had a scum gutfeel on rayn and then suddenly changed his mind. I believe the development is within this list post.

The importance is how he gives credit to people treating him as a suspect/town; its very self-centered/focus approach which I find to be extremely indicative of a townie mindset.
I know scum are always looking for who supports them, and who doesn't; but they typically evaluate all information (as they have the knowledge advantage). Whereas, this is written in a selfish/C.B. manner that I thinks aligns with town (i.e. blinkers are on)

Its obvious he is clearly evaluating his thread presence and monitoring how people respond to him based on thread presence (e.g sciberbia). Again, scum monitor this too; but I don't think they write about how every single person treats them.

Of note as well JJD "thinks almost the same things... <as I do>"

Look how he takes offense to Rean thinking Onegu should be flipped if Aqua is town.
If Onegu was scum, I would expect a discredit here instead of observation. *I find this to be very townie too*


Whether my interpretations align with Onegu doesnt matter (ultimately we are different people that think differently)
What is essential, is that how he is structuring his thoughts is similar to me -- and I know I am town and also treating the game in that type of self-centered way.


Corazon, I appreciate the effort that went into that case; however, I think in this instance you are incorrect.
If Onegu is scum I will take back all I have said about being useless; because after looking throught he above I just can't swallow him being scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 04:19 GMT
#1844
On November 23 2013 18:04 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:
On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game?

Why is this relevant?
My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer:

(A) you won't believe me;
(B) you will still think I am scummy.

Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch.
You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution.

I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles.

I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game.
In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town.
I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch.



Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that.

Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid.
You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply.
I was stating that the same response in is my filter.

You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.
As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia.

Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs?

I actually believe you : / need to think if that is something you would say as scum though.

This post makes me feel *REALLY* good about Bereft.

Following from this discussion:
On November 24 2013 13:12 Bereft wrote:
*confident, not confidant

i'm not saying this is damning, but this is quite interesting...

mocsta to onegu:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 17:30 Onegu wrote:
On November 23 2013 17:18 Mocsta wrote:
On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game?

Why is this relevant?
My explanations are in the filter; I also suspect, that whatever I answer:

(A) you won't believe me;
(B) you will still think I am scummy.

Seriously Onegu, make your case and then realise that this game requires a majority to lynch.
You won't get a majority to lynch me --> which means you efforts on me are completely wasted --> Feigning contribution.

I wanted Rayn lynched not because at the end i thought he was scummy; but because *I* thought that he would prevent town securing a majority lynch in the future cycles.

I don't care whether the observers think that is a terrible decision because they are not playing in this game.
In the situation: this was the decision I thought was best for town.
I did not, nor do I have the means to force anyone to vote. Realise that enough people agreed with this to secure a Rayn lynch.



Since when is makeing a case on someone I find scummy to be a waste if I am town, I fully expect scum to push my lynch today. Then when I flip my case wont be wasted ie people see Im town and look at my scum reads, and since we will have two town lynched and no nk and those two town have the same reads then the rest of the town should pay attention to that.

Also Ill look for it in your filter but if I dont find why you say this game is differnt Ill be very disapoint you didnt answer my question because I will a) find it scummy or b) not believe you, because if its legit, no your prolly right im fairly hard tunneled on you, but maybe some other people that would believe you and find my question valid.
You are hard tunneled, because I answered your question in my reply.
I was stating that the same response in is my filter.

You said scum will be pushing you this cycle.
As far as I know, the only person with an agenda to come after you *solely* is Sciberbia.

Do you have a updated opinion on Scibs?


mocsta to artanis in marv's game:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2013 09:53 Mocsta wrote:
Running behind schedule, works a bitch today and Im only up to p124.

Things I want to say before deadline.


(1) Artanis: You are tunneled.
Your issues with me are because I do not play the game the same way you choose to.
That is not an indicator of scum. Everyone that has played with me many times realises this is how I play town.
Further, all your reads on other players hinge upon their thought process on me. You should know association reads are terribad.
You are obsessed beyond reason.
Unfortunately, the way you walk people through your mindset makes me lean town.
You need to drop this; or if you can't, fine -- Accept there are other players in the game that *must* be scum and look there.



Look reading filters is clearly not-alignment indicative. Some ppl just love to do it.

But, that Bereft was reading the filter in consideration of this back/forth with Onegu is pretty surprising if scum.

To me it indicates that I said something that triggered Bereft to think I am scummy enough to warrant a filter dive in a previous game. Hence the fixation on that phrasing. To me this is *very townie*
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 04:31 GMT
#1846
Corazon

You are correct.

I'm completely 50/50 on holy. He loves to play protown scum, whereas here he is really brazen. Unless he's trying to actively adjust his meta I'm. It sure why he would play this was as scum -- even with time restraints. Plus self confirming so I'm. It trying to put time into him.

I'm reading scibs with a fine tooth now. I can't help feel his early game was to shit the thread. It's been a consistent feeling of mine all game for each reread. Ohh well more to go.


How does what I write about onegu influence your scum read?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 05:22 GMT
#1847
Scibs
Is definitely in my good books.

I realise now that my issues with him have been frequency of posting; however, when his thoughts are read as a sequence (i.e. filter) its damn consistent.

Asks good questions overall and had a really townie approach to dealing with the rayn situation.
I know we discussed scum might want Rayn saved, but scibs seemed pretty genuine in his efforts to push Onegu/Rean as a counter. If hes faking trying to solve the game, hes doing a good job.



Q for you Scibs.

My interpretation of that list post from Onegu. Do you think that is flawed logic.

I have to admit, reading your cases on Onegu made me doubt my read -- which is concerning to me.
+ the whole act of sole tunnel on me is reminding me of how i played scum in personality 2 (where I tunneled Corazon into infinity and let the thread believe i was just that C.B.)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 05:54 GMT
#1849
On November 25 2013 14:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
How strong is your town read on Aqua?
Is there anyone else you potentially have a strong town read on?

I havent filtered aqua; but in the two filters I have read (Onegu/Scibs) Aqua comes up a lot so I have kinda read his filter indirectly.

My current reads:
Town (Tier 1): {Aquanim, Sciberbia} - Definitely not interested in lynching. If HF is scum, both will prob be shot.
Town (Tier 2): {Bereft} - Unlikely to consider

Null: {Thrawn, Slam (rean), Corazon, Holyflare (LoneMeow), Onegu*} - * I kinda like Onegu as a Tier 2 town, but I want some feedback from Aqua/Scibs on my list interpretation first.

PoE Scum: {Chezinu (jampi)}



I actually like the idea of the scum team being the lurker trifecta of {LM / Jampi / Rean } = {Holy, Chez, Slam}

Just stuff like this
On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.

On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.
I'm struggling with this post to understand the message.

He spends 4 lines discussing how corazon *could* be scum.
Then he gives consideration to his scum reads (corazon) scum target (sciberbia) and indicates he could be scum.

Somehow, he concludes its he doesnt think they are both scum.
The last line is important to me because I see nothing in the writing to suggest why its unlikely they are bussing.

You could argue that he has a much stronger scum read on Corazon, and thus does see Sciberbia as unlikely scum -- he just can't get over the weirdness of the early tunnel.

However, why has he belittled his read on Corazon by stating "I could agree".

Either way, this is pretty useless based on the doctor claim I suppose.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 06:04 GMT
#1852
On November 25 2013 14:55 Aquanim wrote:
The entire scumteam replacing out seems ridiculous though >.<

I kinda need to see if HF is doctor or not before deciding whom out of the actives COULD be scum.

Since you want some questions, please read through my points on onegu list post and see if you agree.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 06:10 GMT
#1854
On November 25 2013 15:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, did you just go from having sci as one of the possible 4 candidates for being scum to your top town read?

Did you have a point?

If you want to outline the sequence as a simplistic A -> B.
Then the answer to your question is: Yes.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 06:41 GMT
#1858
Onegu didnt receive that much pressure; Corazon was just very outspoken about this push.
On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Mocsta
Chezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, Chezinu
JarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta
sciberbia (0): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, Chezinu
Mocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon


This is the the most even vote count before JarJar gets 7
On November 25 2013 07:20 ObviousOne wrote:
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
ReanAlakaslam (1): Aquanim
jampidampiChezinu (0): Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon
JarJarDrinks (3): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta
sciberbia (1): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (0): Bereft, Aquanim
Mocsta (3): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (1): cDgCorazon

Not Voting (2): Alakaslam, thrawn2112


I dunno what to make of this.
Having just read jampidampi filter, I actually like the tone of his posts.
*sigh* need a break.




Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 06:43 GMT
#1859
I'm not against the idea Corazon.

Def need more discussion.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 08:00 GMT
#1882
On November 20 2013 17:42 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 17:33 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:29 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?

I'm asking him about his thought process.
I find that "held back" is a very interesting way to describe Sciberias play up to that point, imo he was one of the most direct poeple at that time.
OK, thanks.

Have you read the whole thread?

Is it safe to assume that because you are "intrigued" by Rean, you are in any agreement with Aquanim case on Rean?

Yes I have read the thread once for a sense of game flow. Rereading now with actual thought.


Aquas case has some merit to it if Reans reasons for thinking Sciberbia was "held back" are not good. If Rean had good reasons to think Scib was "held back" then it kinda falls apart.

So originally Jampi likes Aqua case on Rean (with a caveat)

Then..
On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim
+ Show Spoiler +

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Firstly, I take "even after the case" to refer to Thrawns case on Aquanim (rather than Aquanim case on Rean) though I don't think this changes my concern.

Secondly, lets look at what the points of Thrawn case was that Jampi liked.
On November 20 2013 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
Aquanim is scum. + Show Spoiler +
I just read through all his posts and concluded that he is not looking for scum and is not suspicious of anything. I don't want to make a big post full of quotes so I'd like you to read his filter and then read this post.

He starts the game by asking the "are you scum" question. When questioned about this he says he has a slight town read on Mocsta. In his next post after giving Mocsta the "teeny tiny town read" he expands upon the reasoning for said town read with way more words than are needed. Later in that post he comments on things that aren't related to scumhunting. He ends that same post with a question to Corazon but the question is not framed in a way that it looks like he is suspicious of Corazon. He then asks rean a similar sounding question, and posts another question for Corazon. None of it looks like scumhunting because I don't sense any hint of accusation behind any of the questions. After those series of questions comes a larger post where he gives me a townread, and says he doesn't like Corazon's case but he doesn't call Corazon scum for it. Then there's another non-accusatory question to rean, and he asks a nonsensical and completely useless question about vig shots. He asks who would mocsta shoot, but says that this doesn't mean he's asking for a scumread. What use is a vig shot other than to shoot a scumread? It doesn't make any sense at all and I don't see how he was trying to help town by asking it.


So what is his filter comprised of? Town reads, overly lengthy explanations for things that aren't important, weak questions that don't look like he's actually looking for scum, and a completely useless question about vig-shots.

##vote: aquanim


How is jampidampi PoV applicable if Aquanim made a case on Rean that jampi acknowledged potentially decent.

Further look again at how Jampi explains why Aqua case could be meritable
Aquas case has some merit to it if Reans reasons for thinking Sciberbia was "held back" are not good. If Rean had good reasons to think Scib was "held back" then it kinda falls apart.
This is a strawman argument that is completely open to vague interpretation allowing jampi multiple outs.

The main reason I find this scummy is due to how jampi adjusts his scum read based on thread sentiment.

Later on Aquanim is off the noose and we get:
On November 21 2013 23:09 jampidampi wrote:
Rean
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
...

On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

That is like saying Scarlett is bad when compared to Jaedong. Doesn't explain how "held back" is the phrase that came to your mind when thinking about Sciberbias early play.

Hasn't scumhunted very much.

Might consolidate onto him.
Guess, he gets the answer to "held back" is not satisfied, but leaves his vote on aquanim the whole cycle even though it made the case of merit.
On November 22 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:
cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu, thrawn2112, sciberbia, Holyflare
Aquanim (2): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneet
Rean (0): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet
Onegu (0): sciberbia, thrawn2112
Bereft (0): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (0): raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (8): thrawn2112, Mocsta. Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Bereft, raynpelikoneet, cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet, thrawn2112, Holyflare, sciberbia, raynpelikoneet
jampidampi (0): raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (1): Onegu, raynpelikoneet
JarJarDrinks (0): raynpelikoneet
No-Lynch (1): cDgCorazon

raynpelikoneet [blue]is currently set to be lynched.

jampi posted many times whilst Rayn went AWOL including giving him a calm/calculated town read:
[B]On November 22 2013 00:14 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 00:07 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 00:03 jampidampi wrote:
I need some time to make any sense of this rayn mess, give me a moment to reread.

hmmmm

<I am going to the QT to talk to Rayn about how to best perform damage control>

Rayn has some weird things as town in the past, though mostly related to fake claiming (Nuclear Winter for example).

Show nested quote +
For a guy that displayed shrewd analysis with the corazon read (i.e. immediately being able to identify emotional tunnel etc) its disconcerting how hard you are holding onto this Aquanim line of questioning.

The original query to you was "fair game".
You wrote he was leaning town (slightly) yet identified two quotes that you said had no substance. The message is unclear -- yet you keep trying to shit the thread with this.

Both you and Aquanim need to read more carefully. First of all, I highlighted one post that "didn't say anything with a substance". My point about Aqua is about the motive behind his post, and he seems to continue missunderstanding that. He has yet to refute my actual point, instead trying to make my point appear to be something which it isn't and refuting that.
Yet his vote remained on aquanim this whole time contradicting his original stance.

I take ire with this town read further; as even people like Onegu who have extensive experience with Rayn were not able to distill their reasons for Rayn being town as succinctly as that one sentence.

Yes, I do think jampidampi is scum.



Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 08:02 GMT
#1883
Further to jampi being scum.

Chezinu has made no effort to integrate into the thread.

Even when Scibs was roleplaying with him; Chezinu decided to be distant.
I do not profess to be an expert of Chezinu -- heck I have only seen him play scum.

But the couple games I seen him played scum, hes distant and unhelpful. (Matching up to my expectations)

I feel very confident about this slot being scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 08:29 GMT
#1885
This game .. haha Ohh man

I will take that.

What did you think of the jampi aspect?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 08:43 GMT
#1889
U r not insane for the chez stuff but I would be surprised if it gained traction either.

Many havebt played with him.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 09:09 GMT
#1893
Slam.

How would you feel if you were my strongest town read?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 09:29 GMT
#1897
On November 25 2013 18:25 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 18:09 Mocsta wrote:
Slam.

How would you feel if you were my strongest town read?

I would be really frikkin surprised

But I need to sleep and CHUPAZI is all CHUPAZI is or means. However it is also Swahili.

Y surprised?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 09:47 GMT
#1899
On November 25 2013 18:37 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 18:29 Mocsta wrote:
On November 25 2013 18:25 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 18:09 Mocsta wrote:
Slam.

How would you feel if you were my strongest town read?

I would be really frikkin surprised

But I need to sleep and CHUPAZI is all CHUPAZI is or means. However it is also Swahili.

Y surprised?

Nobody ever does

Good night

Inherent guilt lol?

Night
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 11:31 GMT
#1906
On November 25 2013 20:09 Chezinu wrote:
Sometimes being too good with your reads can get you killed. That happened to me one game. Town was all like, your reads are too accurate all day. You mafia die!!!! Yeah.. that really happened. true story.

The police hate the fact that I would not place my hand against my own brother. It shows that I'm unique and am an individual - not a robot. The soundness of illogical, these robots do not understand. They mock the idea the the Chezinu Rule for they can not compute. The Chezinu Rule has never failed. It's accuracy in experimental trials has been 100% so far. Yet, it still requires faith to follow despite its proven past. Some think logic is more important, much like the robots. But I say, faith>logic.

So Unizehc is statign he is scum with Sciberbia.

& Sciberbia is telling him what to do in the scum QT.

Awesome.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 13:09 GMT
#1916
If I'm alive I will respond to his case scibs.

I don't think a single thing is valid - mainly cos I know my role PM.
He may have picked out bad play, but I always had towns intention at <3

Looks like the jampi/Chezinu lynch is full go tomorrow anyways
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 23:09 GMT
#1981
I'm finding Onegu extremely unreasonable here towards Cora.. reads quite fake to me.

Further, why does Onegu auto-assume jampi is not scum; yet doesnt comment on the integrity my case.
Even people that suspect me like Scibs acknowledged the merit of the case.

jampi case
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:07 GMT
#1983
Like I do get Onegu argument about the posts being 16min apart - its certainly suspicious; however, its also purely conjecture.

It most certainly does not warrant "claim bby sealz, bby grl".
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:20 GMT
#1986
Reading the TL;DR you posted to Cora, heres some commentary

On November 25 2013 10:39 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta hasnt made a real case all game, his reads jump around all game without any reason given or BS.

(1) Aside from the slur about a real case; what has jumping reads got to do with being scum?
All this is, is identifying poor play and not attributing any effort to divine motive.

NOW LOOK AT HIS REASON TO WANT TO LYNCH JAMP. Because jamp tunneled onto Aqua, but when rayn says that mocsta gives a meta reason that is town for jamp.
Several have expressed doubts on jampi based on the limited post count. What is your point? Again, you identify me constantly evaluating information and changing my position - yet you make no effort to explain why this is scummy.

Uses the words scumslip for cora and scib, and scum claim for me. Then calls out HF for seeing scum slips.
Again, why is this scummy. These are purely events that are in my filter.

[quote[Also when I make my notes, if its true he can lynch bereft that cycle, doesnt check when he thinks he is out of time, says if I am wrong its not malicious, to he leaves out the most important piece and Im scum for trying to make bereft look bad.[/quote]I dont see what the point is here either. Mocsta did "this"; Mocsta did "that".. but none of what is here is why its scummy, or even what agenda I pushed... if he is asserting that I tried to save a scum Bereft.. well thats an association read at best, thus conjecture... and scum feigning contributions at worst.

Is scum scum scum on rayn, then right before lynch switches to its a policy vote, then after lynch lies and says he didnt have rayn as scum but was afraid rayn wouldnt get a lynch through.
I disagree. I thougth Rayn was scum at the start of the martyring and over the course of lynch downgraded to a policy lynch. This is clear when I ask if he has been mislynched before. Instead of taking the olive branch, he spat it in my face and wanted to be lynched


In short: Onegu case is very useless and doesnt state a single reason why I am scummy.

One thing that is concerning is his mention of my swap on jampi.
Why is this an issue? Does he know what jampi is going to flip - thus making me look bad for calling him town at one point?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:21 GMT
#1988
On November 26 2013 09:11 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 06:32 Onegu wrote:
my tldr

Well, I do like your TL;DR, thing is you are hostile there too. But I will say; the last point about Rayne is scummier to me than the rest. Why push Rayne then vote switch? But we will see.

^^
Lol

/dunked


I wish i asked why you liked it before I posted my response. Cos this post is bad.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:30 GMT
#1990
Wow, Aqua is confirmed town.

We came to the same conclusion of Onegu posts; however, he didn't give just cheap reasons using scum knowledge. Like ohh this is a bullshit reason.

hes back it all up with what I remember of the thread.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:35 GMT
#1992
Alakaslam
*VERY* important question.

How much of the thread have you read.. i.e.. what cycle are you up to?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:37 GMT
#1993
Bereft
Have you played scum before?

TL Database only has you listed for 2 games
Assassin In The Palace Town Bodyguard Lynched Day 2
Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII Town Doctor Endgamed Day 0

Im confident that you have played more than this?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:48 GMT
#1996
On November 26 2013 09:35 Mocsta wrote:
Alakaslam
*VERY* important question.

How much of the thread have you read.. i.e.. what cycle are you up to?

Slam,

where are you bbygrl?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 00:52 GMT
#1997
On November 26 2013 09:42 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta I'd leave this for Bereft but there's only two hours till deadline so time may be of the essence. Check White Flag Mafia.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432880&user=Bereft&view=all

I havent cross-referenced to this game (yet)

But I am inclined to lean town from that White Flag filter.

Skimming through in (like a 2min skim) Its immediately noticeable that scum Bereft isnt confident in his pushes. Hes subconsciously downplaying all his votes giving rambling reasons at the start or "putting it down"

This game I remember him being more assertive and direct.
If there is only 1 tunneled townie between {Onegu, Bereft} I would bet my left nut that it is Bereft.

Having said that, i dont know if there is only 1 tunneled townie, the point was to illustrate i think Bereft has more convinction behind his read.. Heck, he laid down a vote once he was suspicious of me (unlike Onegu)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 01:00 GMT
#1998
Corazon,

Factually I agree with the comments you make. They are highly suspicious.

The question is whether his biases are confirmation-based; or malicious.

Considering the quality of his "cases" against myself (already debunked in a de ja vu moment); and his immediate change in opinion regarding you - its read is quickly shifting towards scum vs tunneled town.

Having said that, I still think jampidampi is a better lynch.
There is no risk of confirmation bias - it has been clearly identified he is pushing a scum agenda
+
Onegu has made a point to say I am scummy for calling jampi town (yet does not comment on his opinion of jampi).
There are other instances in the game where I have back-pedaled reads; but Onegu specifically mentions this one.
I think that if jampidampi/Chezinu *is* scum --> Onegu certainly becomes scum vs tunneled town.

Hence why i think jampi is a better information lynch.



Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 01:17 GMT
#1999
On November 21 2013 23:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
...

So yeah, i am gonna vote for Onegu or Bereft. Aquanim could be town, but Rean is a mislynch. Go for it if you want but i am gonna lynch thrawn on D2 if you lynch Rean because thrawn is spewing bullshit and he knows better than this.

Vote stands on Bereft, will be swithching to Onegu, not onto anyone else.
On November 21 2013 23:16 jampidampi wrote:
Could you provide some reasonings for this?

This is a weird post: To remphasise the specifics of the question

Rayn: (Rean is a mislynch)
jampidampi: (Could you provide some reasonings for this?)

Consider:
(A) JD vote is on Aquanim
(B) JD has suggested he could jump ship to Rean.
(C) JD vote stays on Aquanim, even when Rean hits up to 5 votes.

This quote just seems written as an observer and it out of place given A,B,C
(1) Why doesn't he care Rayn thinks Aqua is town.
(2) Why is it important to query why he thinks Rean is a mislynch --> given that his vote isn't there

Considering the post 1 minute before this was:
On November 21 2013 23:15 jampidampi wrote:
<What do you think of Rean>
Scummy, but not as scummy as Aqua.

My best assumption is that this is a distancing post.


On November 21 2013 23:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The difference between Aquanim and Rean is both have made bad posts & contradicted themselves but unlike Aquanim, Rean admits he made a mistake or worded his thought poorly when it's pointed out. Aquanim makes up new reasons for his argument or licks strong players asses to make himself look better to them. And that is a fucking fact.
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.


On November 21 2013 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because townies don't have to make shit up. I am not saying it makes him town but it makes him more town than a guy who makes shit up intead of admitting they were wrong.
On November 21 2013 23:27 jampidampi wrote:
Is there something else that makes you think Rean is town? Calling someone a misslynch is to me a clear indication that you though there was a high chance that he would flip town.

Again, this is so spoken so calmly. He's querying Rayns read on Rean: yet never votes Rean *even when I am hammering the thread for consolidation*

Now we already know he thinks Rayn is town due to the Nuclear mafia comment.
So why is he probing his town read on *their* read on Rean? You would conclude that jampidampi is suspicious of Rean *AND NOT* Aqua -- as rayn also said aqua is town.

However, as we already know, JD vote remains on Aqua the whole again.

I think this is a strong re enforcing point to my original case on JD.
I also think it makes Rean look very bad as well.

(Now off to check Reans posts on JD)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 01:27 GMT
#2000
Rean has nothing conclusive regarding Jampi. I wrote a big spiel because I thought I found something about interactions with JD, but the time stamps dont line up.

Rean has 1 interaction with JD; and it is *before* JD calls him scum.

I left what I wrote before for posterity
+ Show Spoiler +
Rean
One thing I find odd about Rean is that

JD insinuates he is scum here:
On November 21 2013 23:09 jampidampi wrote:
Rean
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
...

On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

That is like saying Scarlett is bad when compared to Jaedong. Doesn't explain how "held back" is the phrase that came to your mind when thinking about Sciberbias early play.

Hasn't scumhunted very much.

Might consolidate onto him.


Yet his *SOLE* interaction with jampidampi is this:
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?
That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.



Its a concern because of how he treats Sciberbia as follows:
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
Some other things I really want to adress:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.


What we see here is that he calls out Sciberbia for having a scum read on him and follows with a discredit.

What confounds matters is that this response to Sciberbia and the response to jampidampi above ARE IN THE SAME POST !
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=17#326
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 01:32 GMT
#2001
Sorry for the influx of posts:

If I work off Rean is town: another reason I would expect scum to make the below post is as follows:
On November 21 2013 23:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
...

So yeah, i am gonna vote for Onegu or Bereft. Aquanim could be town, but Rean is a mislynch. Go for it if you want but i am gonna lynch thrawn on D2 if you lynch Rean because thrawn is spewing bullshit and he knows better than this.

Vote stands on Bereft, will be swithching to Onegu, not onto anyone else.
On November 21 2013 23:16 jampidampi wrote:
Could you provide some reasonings for this?
Rayn was going to push the lynch onto Onegu or Bereft, and scum tried to convince Rayn to get back onto Rean.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me because Rean was the lead candidate and its an effective means to "sow the seeds" and let others "reap the benefits - that only work for scums favour".

This interpretation has nothing to do with where I sit with Onegu or Bereft currently; its purely something I think is a very smart move for scum to make given the voting situation at the time.



Assuming Holyflare doesn't scum claim tomorrow (through Delay KP usage); I think jampidampi is a very information lynch for tomorrow.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 01:57 GMT
#2003
After skimming Reans filter I dunno how much I want to lynch him.

Some things are townie, somethings appear scummy.
Slam is not doing much to affect my opinion of the slot either.

Basically, Rean *could* scum; but without some more new information from Slam I dont feel confident in the lynch.

The main reason i doubt he is scum is because hes not really pushing anything ever; and when he does - there are plausible town reasons (OMGUS on Aquanim, Defending himself against the cases on him).

If I am alive next cycle I will read the filter in more detail, but now, I still think jampi is a much better lynch than Rean.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:06 GMT
#2005
My last post before cycle finishes

(1) If there is only 1 kill: Please lynch jampidampi; PoE suggests Rean is town.. but.. need a better filter dive first.

(2) If there are 2 kills: Please lynch Holyflare, followed by jampidampi

(3) My best guess for the scum team is: {Holyflare // Rean, Chezinu (jampi), Onegu}


I just don't see how any other combination makes sense.

Thrawns activity has really waiver-ed recently: but I still hold him in higher regard than the 4 listed above.
Even though I had a townish read on Onegu before, no1 else understood my reasoning for it, which suggests it was a confirmation biased read on Onegu. Pragmatically, he has done nothing useful this game other than be a thorn voting against a majority. Even people like Bereft who wanted to lynch me, decided to give it up in the best interests of town.

I think this makes Onegu look terrible.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:13 GMT
#2007
On November 26 2013 11:06 Bereft wrote:
what do you mean scum claim by delay KP usage? I support the jampi lynch. and yeah, white mafia is my epic fail scum game.

You are right, I never thought about Option #4 below.

There was 0 kill Night 1.
Either:
(1) Doctor exists and made correct save (on Thrawn) --> Thrawn is confirmed town
(2) RB exists and RB scum --> I imagine the Town RB would have campaigned for this scum person all cycle Day 2 + makes no sense in the context of the doctor claim.
(3) Scum used Delay KP to have 2 KP Night 2
(4) Scum used Delay KP and a Doctor exists.


Hence, what occurs Night 2 based on the Night 1 options
(1) Scum have a maximum of 1 KP, minimum of 0
(2) ??
(3) Scum have 2KP
(4) Scum have 2KP, and possibility of 1 save to reduce to 1KP.


There is a possibility of 2KP and a doctor existing... fuck me.

In this instance, I still feel much better about a lynch on jampidampi regardless of Night Kills.
I think Onegu is a logical second lynch (assuming jampi is scum)
Hopefully Holy/Slam become more transparent and we can lynch between them.

Like I said before, Holys claim is so so so stupid I dont get it as scum. I know he has pride in his scum game and plays super pro-town. I'm very confused about where I stand with him, other than LoneMeow was relatively scummy from a very low post count.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:25 GMT
#2013
Lol.. why claim so early.... Wtf is this
Filtering now for Corazon reads on scibs
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:33 GMT
#2016
On November 24 2013 10:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 09:58 Aquanim wrote:
Corazon, do you think Sciberbia is scum?

I'm not very confident in sciberia being scum. I appreciate the quality of his posts and the transparency he has shown throughout most of the game. I don't want to lynch him today.

I am inclined to believe Corazon is truthful

This is a complete 180 on his opinion on Scibs from the 40-odd previous comments.

Holyflare is confirmed scum; there is no way that this game has doctor + cop considering it is "back to basics".
1 power role each side makes sense due to complicating play via fake claims.

KK, so Corazon and Scibs are confirmed town.

I do like {Holyflare, jampidampi, Onegu} as the team.

GO TOWN !!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:34 GMT
#2019
Corazon, I dunno why you claimed so early, coulda waited till last 2min. Now you are going to be shot along with probably Sciberbia.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:36 GMT
#2021
On November 26 2013 11:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
corazon.. when there are cops... there are usually godfathers and/or millers and/or framers. if hf's claim is true then cop + doctor might mean we have all that + scum roleblockers. you should kept silent imo.
Well, thats true. But i think its unlikely to have so many roles.

It defeats the intent of this particular game.

That aside: All HF has to do is put a save onto Corazon. At worse, both die and HF is scum; at best, HF dies and Cora gets a cop check.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:37 GMT
#2023
On November 26 2013 11:35 thrawn2112 wrote:
btw moc, idk if this has been adressed yet, but all that stuff you said about lynching chez first is not good imo. there's pretty much possible way that onegu isn't mafia

I find it highly likely that Onegu is mafia
But I find it conclusive that jampi is mafia.

I dont see the point of this post? Are you arguing that jampi could be town?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:38 GMT
#2024
On November 26 2013 11:36 Bereft wrote:
cora, please check mocsta. please!!!

so you agree with my case on jampi; yet you still think I am scum?

dude... c'mon, you dont vote your scum reads.. scum read.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:45 GMT
#2026
On November 26 2013 11:41 Bereft wrote:
if onegu is scum, he will eventually get lynched. if mocsta is the last scum, he'll run with it to the end.

though I guess if it's true, the presence of a cop AND a doc means there's probably a mafia godfather or some other power role.
Dude, this is going to be discussed post-game.

*THIS* is not a reason to vote someone. Instead of being scared; prove my alignment.

Now you already tried to make a case, so did Onegu.
You also acknowledged that your best town reads don't think it holds water

I dont even understand what your issue with my play is... i mean fuck.. you even agree with my choice of lynch candidate.
I dont even need to see a jampi flip to know that *is* the best case in the whole game.

Theres not really much else I can say.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 02:56 GMT
#2033
On November 26 2013 11:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 11:47 Bereft wrote:
hold up... why didn't you check onegu night 1? wasn't he your strongest scum read all day?

Because I would rather spend one check on someone I wasn't too sure of. The difference between last night and tonight is that we NEED to lynch scum tomorrow. I wanted to check someone I was less sure (aka more null) about, just to take off the amount of suspects that I had. I wasn't as sure about Onegu scum as I am now, and getting a red check wasn't as important then as it is now.

Also, things weren't as set in stone with 3-4 people who are probably scum. I had about 2-3 solid town reads and was unsure about the rest during night 1. As you can see, I got a green check with sciberia and I stopped attacking him after N1.


Scibs made some sense to me because Corazon filter was lazed with over 40 references to scibs throughout the cycle.
He was also Corazons first scum read.

Having said that..
On November 24 2013 09:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.



Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Also when are people going to realize this is a game of logic not emotion, rayn never personally attacks people, he only attacks thier gameplay. I have a problem when people are attacked with personal assults that have nothing to do with the game rayn never does this. Rayn forces his reads down your throat, and when he is throwning reads everywhere and changeing them constantly its difficult to follow, but when he tunnels onto someone most of the time he is right. And in this game say what you want rayn was playing the game and wanting to policy lynch him for it dumb. Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game?

Why are these posts basically the same? Why are they both attacking Mocsta and trying to pass the blame for the Rayn lynch solely on him? Cause they are scum!
This is before the night post ended.

Im kinda surprised HF wasnt checked. I would expect him after that claim and you calling him out as scum to be your first read.

I suppose you could argue he may have been shot so its a waste of a check.

But then yes, I am in agreement with Bereft, Onegu makes more sense from your perspective.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 03:01 GMT
#2038
GG guys

##Vote: Onegu

I agree with Thrawn, it doesnt make a difference.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 03:02 GMT
#2039
Ohh, Corazon.. result?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 03:03 GMT
#2040
HF is guaranteed scum too btw. Doctor save had to be Aquanim.

Could toss up Thrawn/Sciberbia.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 03:51 GMT
#2045
So it's 5-3 and MYLO

Cora fake claim could be an awesome start to finish off the game but I prefer his play as town. And the sudden change on sciberbia does seem hard to fake.

I much prefer hf giving up and deciding to copy the blszinghand fake doc claim strat.
This buys them another cycle and possibly gets a mislynch.

Fact. Holyflare has nothing nothing all game.
Corazon has been present all cycles.

Yes scum is
Hf, onegu, chezinu

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 03:52 GMT
#2046
Slam. Come join us bud !!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 04:03 GMT
#2049
Corazon, I have been through all your posts that have "scib" in them post-Day2.

I dont get your position on 2 specific posts:

On November 25 2013 07:22 cDgCorazon wrote:
Lol this game is over.

Alakaslam isn't going to read the game.
Chezinu isn't going to read the game.
HF isn't going to play, only going to hide under his doc claim.
Thrawn isn't going to play, only going to buddy everyone.
JJD/Bereft/Onegu/Sciberia aren't active enough (over the course of the entire game, Onegu is doing better though)

@Aqua/Moc
Let's just vote all of these guys out systematically? Then we can have a 3-way Mexican standoff if we haven't killed the scum yet.
You already gave reasons earlier for why you had a town read on Sciberbia, yet hes not in your "keep as town" list?

Then:
On November 25 2013 15:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Ok, I'm just going to throw my idea out there.
In my opinion, the biggest problem of Day 2 was the lack of thread movement in the first 20 hours. This was frustrating for me and for a lot of other active players. It obviously wasn't ideal and I think we need a way to fix that and force people to lurk less; we had to choose between 4-5 lurkers and they had no reason or motivation to delurk. This is bad.

What is my suggestion to counter this? We form a town circle with Me, Aqua, Mocsta, and Bereft/Sciberia (one or possibly both).

+ Show Spoiler +
These five have been the most active players in the game and I think we can all put our heads together and force the others to de-lurk.

How do we accomplish this? We should all talk for the rest of N2 and the beginning of D3. We should decide on a lynch within the first part of D3 and all pack our votes on that one player. This would force that person to delurk and we can change our vote or not based on their responses.

I think we need to work closer together and form a temporary alliance for at least D3 and hopefully D4 if enough of the players are still around. If we can get 5 people in our circle, we can force scum to kill either two people in the circle (and either force HF to protect someone in the circle or out him as scum with a fake claim) or we can have 4 people in our circle and bully one other player into voting with us (if HF is town and gets shot).


Let me know if this is a good idea or if I'm just dumb.
Shouldn't this be:
Me, Aqua, Mocsta, Sciberbia and MAYBE Bereft?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 04:05 GMT
#2050
On November 26 2013 12:56 Bereft wrote:
good job team.

mocsta forgive me, I was wrong.

Its OK, nothing to be forgiven about.

I was jumping all over the place which allows me to not hold firm opinions - so I can understand the suspicion.
I'm going to get grilled for it post-game, I just know it.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 04:06 GMT
#2051
##Vote: 24hr Day
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 04:11 GMT
#2053
That wasnt the answer I was predicting.

Its actually better than what I was predicting.

Awesome. I will follow you with my eyes closed into MYLO cap'n.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 05:45 GMT
#2059
Ac tually onegu totally convinced me
##unvote
##vote:mocsta


Yep I'm scum.
Onegu.. the guy who couldn't catch scum when he's rolled scum... Has finally caught me
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:03 GMT
#2062
Onegu.

Why is being a hypocrite scummy?

Nothing of what you write is conclusive towards pushing a scum agenda.

We were semi masoned in GoT. I know you are better than this.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:04 GMT
#2064
Also. I didn't state jampi was town in my response... You have been caught out not reading several times now.

It's ok. I know from.Hogwarts you don't give up.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:07 GMT
#2066
Btw onegu

If you are town, and Cora is thus scum... You are going to have to drop the tunnel on me.

I am clearly town.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:17 GMT
#2069
Wait a sec.

Why did you feel the need to add more?
That directly suggests you are creating a novel.

You sold this case as a post by post analysis, so why break out of this pattern to strengthen a point??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:21 GMT
#2070
On November 26 2013 15:16 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 15:07 Mocwrote:
Btw onegu

If you are town, and Cora is thus scum... You are going to have to drop the tunnel on me.

I am clearly town.



I domt see it mocsta, you keep saying it but that doesnt make it true. I dont see how it is possible for you to believe your caseon jampi when you defended him for the same reason you attacked him. Also I dont see cora and 2 inactives leading town around by the nose basicly by himself, if he did more power to him, but I just dont see it, also I know it is dumb to do preflip connections but there are really to many to passup. Basicly if there was a vig shot on you or cora last night and you flipped red I would nail the other one with connections on top of scummy play. This is also how I have rean in my scumteam.

1. Co firmed town aqua already agreed with my position on jampi. So get used to that stance flipflop being null.

2. I don't even understand your point regarding Corazon. This reads as an ad hom.

3. Share with me these connection flips

4. So the only way rean is in your scum team is if cora and I were vigged, and on top of that flipped red. Lol.
So are you suggesting a vig has been rb fir two successive nights?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:36 GMT
#2073
Why is holyflare off this list.

He buses as scum. Why can't he be riding your cases to earn town cred.

Why is his dubious timing if the doc claim ignored.

Why so double standard?

Why are you writing novels?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:38 GMT
#2075
Connections is all you talk about
Can you outline even one thing about Cora, rean or myself that can only be explained by scum motive??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:39 GMT
#2076
On November 26 2013 15:37 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 15:17 Mocsta wrote:
Wait a sec.

Why did you feel the need to add more?
That directly suggests you are creating a novel.

You sold this case as a post by post analysis, so why break out of this pattern to strengthen a point??



Im not, all of that I posted makes you scum, this is one of the strongest points though. I believe all of my case points to you being scum. But this point is the nail imo.

Your strongest point is that I called out a scumslip in the first hour of the day?

Is this what you want me to take at face value?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:44 GMT
#2079
On November 26 2013 15:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
Slam. Come join us bud !!

Fwiw I hope you are here still too!

I am
In OP

Scum can delay kp .. so have 0 kp night1 and shoot twice night2
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:52 GMT
#2084
On November 26 2013 15:45 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 15:36 Mocsta wrote:
Why is holyflare off this list.

He buses as scum. Why can't he be riding your cases to earn town cred.

Why is his dubious timing if the doc claim ignored.

Why so double standard?

Why are you writing novels?



True HF busses, He didnt just ride my cases he has added points, And now we are in mylo I am trying to give the scum team now as I will be lynched today. As I said rean would be the last person I voted, also as I said earlier if we get down to only one scum left and HF the claimed doctor is still alive then he really should be looked at, until there is only one scum left I read town on HF. If there is only one scum left and it is mylo or lylo and they left the claimed doctor alive until only one scum left the I could see him being scum. But only at that point, unless that happens my read goes to rean.

Lol.. that doesn't answer the question at all.

Why do you treat holyflare town for dubious claim timing, and treat Corazon opposite for the same dubious timing.

In your case against me you think I do this to jampi, and this are scummy.

So tables are turned.. why onegu?

Further the above doesn't explain why holy is town, if anything it sounds lime he is town by Poe.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:54 GMT
#2087
On November 26 2013 15:49 Onegu wrote:
Oh you were talking about you saying scumslips, and then calling out HF for seeing scum slips. Yeah I pointed out everything, and you saying that is being a hypocrite and normally I assoiate that with scum, sure town can do that also but people needed to see you did it.

Need to see.. lol.. for what reason

Filler content?

It's obvious now, and was obvious then it meant nothing
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 06:55 GMT
#2088
On November 26 2013 15:53 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 15:44 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 15:41 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 26 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
Slam. Come join us bud !!

Fwiw I hope you are here still too!

I am
In OP

Scum can delay kp .. so have 0 kp night1 and shoot twice night2

Ok. Even more my point then, see if they had 2kp normally this makes actually it still doesn't make sense. If they were blue hunting and wanted to make sure Cora woulda 100% died. Either they weren't here or were thinking doc stuff? But why wouldn't they consolidate the shot either way.

I am wifoming myself here. I begin to think the Thrawn kill was significant though because I'm looking at Chezinu. But that still doesn't make sense because they would kill me. Or maybe they disagree with Cora :s

K what else do we have though. Why is Chezinu scum so quickly to others ?

How much of the thread have you read.. I can't follow where you ate coming from, because I dont know how much u might be missing.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:01 GMT
#2092
Onegu
Let me get this straight.

You want me to believe that Corazon had the grandeur to plan this fake claim night 1.. hence explaining his immediate change in opinion to sciberbia and thus putting himself at the end of night 2 to set you up for MYLO?

And then. You want me to believe holyflare did not fake claim to avoid being lynched. instead he did not put a save on the most obvious night kill choice?

Is this correct?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:03 GMT
#2093
On November 26 2013 15:59 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 15:52 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 15:45 Onegu wrote:
On November 26 2013 15:36 Mocsta wrote:
Why is holyflare off this list.

He buses as scum. Why can't he be riding your cases to earn town cred.

Why is his dubious timing if the doc claim ignored.

Why so double standard?

Why are you writing novels?



True HF busses, He didnt just ride my cases he has added points, And now we are in mylo I am trying to give the scum team now as I will be lynched today. As I said rean would be the last person I voted, also as I said earlier if we get down to only one scum left and HF the claimed doctor is still alive then he really should be looked at, until there is only one scum left I read town on HF. If there is only one scum left and it is mylo or lylo and they left the claimed doctor alive until only one scum left the I could see him being scum. But only at that point, unless that happens my read goes to rean.

Lol.. that doesn't answer the question at all.

Why do you treat holyflare town for dubious claim timing, and treat Corazon opposite for the same dubious timing.

In your case against me you think I do this to jampi, and this are scummy.

So tables are turned.. why onegu?

Further the above doesn't explain why holy is town, if anything it sounds lime he is town by Poe.



No I didnt say HF is town because of his claim timeing, I think its null, but I point out coras for 2 reasons, 1 a cop check can be messed with via framer, and 2 if I was scum and he was going to cop check me and I knew I would flip red why not kill him, he has been just as active if not more active than thrawn and aqua, why not the claimed blue who was going to have a red check on me.

Look I gave my scumteam, if somehow we get to lylo with one scum alive and the claimed doctor is still alive at that point yes he becomes scummy, until that happens I have a town read on him.
why not kill him??

Notice that you.. chezinu.. holy were not posting in the thread at cycle end.

It's equally wifom to state you did not see the claim lol...

Stop with the Strawman arguments and start playing the game.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:10 GMT
#2095
On November 26 2013 16:04 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 15:55 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 15:53 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 26 2013 15:44 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 15:41 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 26 2013 12:52 Mocsta wrote:
Slam. Come join us bud !!

Fwiw I hope you are here still too!

I am
In OP

Scum can delay kp .. so have 0 kp night1 and shoot twice night2

Ok. Even more my point then, see if they had 2kp normally this makes actually it still doesn't make sense. If they were blue hunting and wanted to make sure Cora woulda 100% died. Either they weren't here or were thinking doc stuff? But why wouldn't they consolidate the shot either way.

I am wifoming myself here. I begin to think the Thrawn kill was significant though because I'm looking at Chezinu. But that still doesn't make sense because they would kill me. Or maybe they disagree with Cora :s

K what else do we have though. Why is Chezinu scum so quickly to others ?

How much of the thread have you read.. I can't follow where you ate coming from, because I dont know how much u might be missing.

I am missing everything before I replaced. Today was busy and I looked at LXIII and also I'm not wholly caught up on current events. Also, I like how Chezinu is approaching his replace, seeing what people do NOW and determining who is what. Reads that don't make any sense will be criticized, and old info will be brought back by others.

This way, we don't fall back and can still be useful.
do you realise that no one is actually pushing chezinu?

It's onegu vs Corazon
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:17 GMT
#2099
##unvote
##vote: onegu


Let me know when you are ready to continue battling.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:24 GMT
#2104
On November 26 2013 16:19 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 12:51 Mocsta wrote:
So it's 5-3 and MYLO

Cora fake claim could be an awesome start to finish off the game but I prefer his play as town. And the sudden change on sciberbia does seem hard to fake.

I much prefer hf giving up and deciding to copy the blszinghand fake doc claim strat.
This buys them another cycle and possibly gets a mislynch.

Fact. Holyflare has nothing nothing all game.
Corazon has been present all cycles.

Yes scum is
Hf, onegu, chezinu


Mocsta nobody pushing Chezinu?

Please, bear in mind what I said of him.

Here's the problem
Bereft is townier than you or cheZ

If you want to stick up for chez, process of elimination leaves just you.

So whose scum: you or chezinu? Lol...

We can deal with this after the lynch.

As an aside. Chez replaced jampidampi. Did you read my jampi case?

Cos we know onegu hasn't (to comment on it as asked)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:26 GMT
#2106
On November 26 2013 16:24 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 16:16 Alakaslam wrote:
Dude Cora is so town. anyone questioning that is seeing the world differently from me.



Just conjecture, but lets say I flip town what then?

Then it's gg.

Why the appeal to emotion.

You think town try to emotionally blackmail people like this?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:34 GMT
#2109
Its ok slam.

One scum at a time. Onegu first.

I'm having real trouble thinking you are scum. You actually sound like you are having fun and aren't spamming useless stuff.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:46 GMT
#2112
Slam
Are you town?

Would you lie to me?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:51 GMT
#2115
The held back is rean talking about sciberbia.

Lol..

And no one ever called you scummy for being afk.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:52 GMT
#2117
On November 26 2013 16:50 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 16:46 Mocsta wrote:
Slam
Are you town?

Would you lie to me?

K

I have never understood why people ask this. No, Mocsta, I'm scum. I give up now because you asked. Because I would never lie to you.

???

What is expected from that question lol!

U gave the town response.

All is good in the word. Halle fucking lujah
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 07:53 GMT
#2118
Lol.. slam just mindfucked scum

Nice
Traplogix
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:07 GMT
#2122
The jampi case is where held up comes from
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:28 GMT
#2126
On November 26 2013 17:19 Onegu wrote:
Mocsta why arent you giveing the whole quotes? In the first post jamp says he has only skimmed the thread but will read with actual thought.

Why leave that part out then make him look bad for changeing his read. And he only says he will consoildate on rean then next post says aqua is still scum. Not sure what you were going for.

Here is the whole post

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:42 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 17:33 Mocsta wrote:
On November 20 2013 17:29 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?

I'm asking him about his thought process.
I find that "held back" is a very interesting way to describe Sciberias play up to that point, imo he was one of the most direct poeple at that time.
OK, thanks.

Have you read the whole thread?

Is it safe to assume that because you are "intrigued" by Rean, you are in any agreement with Aquanim case on Rean?

Yes I have read the thread once for a sense of game flow. Rereading now with actual thought.

Aquas case has some merit to it if Reans reasons for thinking Sciberbia was "held back" are not good. If Rean had good reasons to think Scib was "held back" then it kinda falls apart.



Mocsta is cutting portions out to suit his needs.
So what you are telling me is that if jampi posts as a precursor (My reads could change after a re-read) its OK.
But if Mocsta does the same thing its scummy??

LOl

& Onegu I supplied the whole quote. I dunno what you are getting at.
This is the ump-teenth time you have misread literally what people are writing.
Its so obvious you dont believe a thing you are stating.

For those unsure:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=95#1882

Onegu is referring to the first quote. Its there in full.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:29 GMT
#2127
On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?

If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?

If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.
+ Show Spoiler +

Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?



Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.




Tl:dr

Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu.
Why did you heal Corazon?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:33 GMT
#2128
On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?

If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?

If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.

Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?
Why would a cop check you when if you claim is true, you are at risk of being shot?
This is beyond stupendous.

Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.
LOL NK scenarios are fact. Whether I voice them in the thread or not, does not change the KP scenarios, and if anything gave you an opportunity to still be the doctor with 2KP -- something in your favour.

Tl:dr

Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu.
So whose scum.. Me + Cora, and who else?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:41 GMT
#2131
On November 26 2013 17:38 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?

If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?

If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.
+ Show Spoiler +

Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?



Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.




Tl:dr

Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu.
Why did you heal Corazon?


"why would I heal the claimed cop"..........? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is a real question.

Did you heal him because he claimed; or because you had a town read on him before the claim?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:41 GMT
#2133
On November 26 2013 17:39 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta, use your brain for gods sake. If he thought my claim was true he wouldn't be pushing for my/onegu's lynch today would he?
How about: you fill in the gap, instead of ask me to fill it for you.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 08:45 GMT
#2134
On November 26 2013 17:41 Onegu wrote:
Ok you spoiler it. I dont get why you spoil it. Really feels like you are trying to hide shit. dont even say I say its ok for him to change his reads but not you, you have done it MULTIPLE TIMES, I even say you can change your reads but you do 3 magical rereads and change your reads from scum to town and town to scum each time with no reasons given on alot of them, or only one liners. Also his reads come at a point, the his reads change once and not again like you suggest. He says he will consolidate but never takes his read back. He left himself outs you say, but he never used them. He kept his story. And aqua was confirmation biased he thought you were town, didnt have a read on jamp who tunneled him. He read over your case andddnt fact check it so you bringing up a confirmed town agreed with you means nothing.

LOl..

so you are comparing the filter of a Day1 lurker; or a Day3 active.. and then suggesting that the Day1 lurker changes his mind less?.. no shit sherlock

Aqua was C.B'd lol? Is that how you justify your position now?

Spoilering posts means I want to hide stuff --> Scummy LOL...

Let me know when you are ready to stop changing up your story
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 09:03 GMT
#2138
On November 26 2013 17:56 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 17:41 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 17:38 Holyflare wrote:
On November 26 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?

If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?

If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.
+ Show Spoiler +

Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?



Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.




Tl:dr

Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu.
Why did you heal Corazon?


"why would I heal the claimed cop"..........? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is a real question.

Did you heal him because he claimed; or because you had a town read on him before the claim?


I healed him because he claimed. No way I'd let a potential cop die. It's not until after the night and the posts after that I seriously began to consider that he's just making up a lot of bs.
so... You admit you were present in the last 40min before deadline because you read the claim and changed action.

Why then did you not contribute to any discussion.

In fact, as town doctor you were the most likely to be Nk'd as your presence only serves to elongate a scum victory.
Thusz I would have expected you to at least reinforce your reads.

I welcome your answer to this one lol....
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 09:06 GMT
#2140
On November 26 2013 17:56 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 17:45 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 17:41 Onegu wrote:
Ok you spoiler it. I dont get why you spoil it. Really feels like you are trying to hide shit. dont even say I say its ok for him to change his reads but not you, you have done it MULTIPLE TIMES, I even say you can change your reads but you do 3 magical rereads and change your reads from scum to town and town to scum each time with no reasons given on alot of them, or only one liners. Also his reads come at a point, the his reads change once and not again like you suggest. He says he will consolidate but never takes his read back. He left himself outs you say, but he never used them. He kept his story. And aqua was confirmation biased he thought you were town, didnt have a read on jamp who tunneled him. He read over your case andddnt fact check it so you bringing up a confirmed town agreed with you means nothing.

LOl..

so you are comparing the filter of a Day1 lurker; or a Day3 active.. and then suggesting that the Day1 lurker changes his mind less?.. no shit sherlock

Aqua was C.B'd lol? Is that how you justify your position now?

Spoilering posts means I want to hide stuff --> Scummy LOL...

Let me know when you are ready to stop changing up your story



Yeah remember that part about not responding to you or cora, we arent getting anywhere. And Im not going to keep shitting up the thread with you. I know you are going to try to use onegu wasnt reading, onegu doesnt know what he was talking about when I flip, Im guess its the first post you make after I flip.

You are the one who brought up Aqua a confirmed townie agreeing with your case, I am showimg why that doesnt mean anything when it comes to that townie haveing a town read on you, at minumum a null read on jamp, and the case is about jamp haveing a scum read on aqua.
blszinghand
Scumslips do exist.

We are in MYLO. Note how onegu refers to me using his filter after he flips.

We got ourselves here scum boys n girls.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 09:51 GMT
#2147
On November 26 2013 18:19 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, we can lynch onegu to prove cora's claim IMO. 9 players we have plenty of time TBH.

Lay down a vote then pl0x
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 09:53 GMT
#2148
On November 26 2013 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
Also, if you play like I am playing you aren't likely to get nk'd, especially if a cop claims too.

This is a poor argument.

A successful doc heal is a successful doc heal, regardless of how poorly you are playing.

I still can not comprehend how a town player could be f5n furiously to note Corazon claim and not post a single thing 30min either side of the flip.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 10:07 GMT
#2151
On November 26 2013 19:05 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 18:53 Mocsta wrote:
On November 26 2013 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
Also, if you play like I am playing you aren't likely to get nk'd, especially if a cop claims too.

This is a poor argument.

A successful doc heal is a successful doc heal, regardless of how poorly you are playing.

I still can not comprehend how a town player could be f5n furiously to note Corazon claim and not post a single thing 30min either side of the flip.


I was around for lxiii, only casually looking at this, saw flips were coming soon, f5'd, saw cop claim, auto healed and afkd to sleep. It is 3am when the deadline is after all.

That you don't understand what I'm saying blows my mind.

So when are you voting onegu?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 10:09 GMT
#2153
On November 26 2013 19:06 Holyflare wrote:
Hey look, I'm not saying that I shouldn't be shot because I should. I'm saying that they are bad for not doing it. Besides, there is so much talk about lynching into me/onegu and because cora claimed cop (i think its fake and he is scum) he easily drew my heal away and then could kill 2 towny looking people.

So let me get this straight.

Before the cop claim.. jampi and onegu were the two lynch candidates discussed.

Scum already had a masyerplan to fake claim set in motion night 1 and decided to unveil with dubious timing to secure a MYLO Victory.
.using this logic surely jampi is scum.. otherwise scum wouldn't care and let either be lynched.


So wanna swap to chezinu holy?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 10:10 GMT
#2154
On November 26 2013 19:08 Holyflare wrote:
I do understand, you are saying that killing a doctor should supercede everything because saves can ruin their game. However, if a scum claims cop he automatically draws the doctor away and then they do not have to worry about who they kill, therefore they can afford to leave a doctor alive, shoot 2 people and use the cop claims to lynch another person. It's not an awful play.

No that's not what I'm saying.

I'm talking about a town player expecting to die. Known for talking a lot.. can be present at lynch deadline and not say a word.
Blows my mind.
..so where is ya vote going?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 11:33 GMT
#2168
Funny how hf now starts posting.

Anyways once onegu is lynched. I hope hf and chez concede.

I'm bored....

I was willing to entertain one of onegu/hf being town, but they are both. Tag teaming the same arguments too hard.

It really feels us vs them.

Gg.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 13:40 GMT
#2173
I actually am trying my hardest to think if onegu could be miller.

I have been in mylo enough times and made too many rash decisions to think this is set in stone.

but.. I can't get over onegu still assuming I'm scum.
hes played with in a game last week with me as scum, and I'm playing 100% diff.
this behaviour is beyond cb

I'm actually getting to the point where onegu is pissing me off so much I just want this game over. and if cora fake claimed.. well done to him I don't care.

the thing, if cora fake claimed., I have no idea who his scum buddies are..it doesn't make sense to me one iota.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 13:43 GMT
#2174
On November 26 2013 21:20 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 20:18 sciberbia wrote:
On November 26 2013 20:07 Onegu wrote:
@Scib if I flip town what are your thoughts on cora? Anyway my case is comeing up.

Also everyone except chezniu has weighed in on me ant it is currently 6-1-1 votes on me, on cora, note voted.

Can we please vote 24 hour day?

##VOTE cDgCorazon
##VOTE 24 HOUR DAY


Well if you flipped miller that would be tragic and I'd still think Cora is cop.

If you flip town then Cora is obviously somewhat suspect. Probably one of him/Mocsta/Bereft would have to be scum. Either cop claim is fake or Mocsta/Bereft framed you. Most likely because of math would be a fake cop claim. So yea if you flip town then I guess Cora is probably scum. But I doubt it.

This whole martyring thing is pretty dumb and just makes me feel more sure about you being scum tbh. Do you really think you are going to win with town by dying but convincing someone to shoot Cora? It doesn't make any sense. If we DO have a vig then he has been roleblocked twice in a row. It wouldn't take a genius scumteam to roleblock the same person again.

And either
a) HF is town and gets shot, ending the game, or more likely
b) HF is scum, so we have no medic, and scum have their pick of game-ending NK



Im not martyring, I just GMarshal if I am allowed to do something that might save me actually. The problem is I know my town play looks scummy Im working on it, I have been mislynched in every town game I have been in.
I don't care what your alignment is.
stuff like this needs to go on the rules list, if its not there already.

this is disgusting abuse of host manipulayuion which we have no means of knowing is true.

completely poor sportsmanship if scum, completely.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 22:32 GMT
#2213
On November 27 2013 02:07 Bereft wrote:
Cora has been a pretty unwavering town read for me since n1/d2. his explanation to moc of why he never gave scib a strong town read in his posting was extremely solid. while I don't know if I agree with him claiming 40 min before the deadline was over, his rationalization of it was consistent with a townie mindset in my opinion.

compare this to HF whose explanations and rationalizations for his actions are completely inconsistent with an actual blue role. I cannot believe for a moment he would be around at the deadline and change his save target to Cora without even questioning Cora's motivations, considering the suspicions he has of him. combined with the way he acted N1, it is basically impossible that even the most confused and foolish of doctors would do the things he's doing.

I think onegu is a good lynch but HF is a safer one. when we are at mylo I don't see any harm in being risk averse, and I hope you guys will agree.

also this last bit might be a bit of a stretch, but considering how he implies cora should've checked him he's probably the GF. if he flips GF we know that the scum check on onegu is basically unquestionable.

##Unvote
##Vote: Holyflare

holy Moses this is like best post of the entire thread.

convinced me in one fell swoop.

##unvote
##vote: holyflare
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 22:35 GMT
#2214
On November 27 2013 04:01 Alakaslam wrote:
So why is Holyflare so certainly scum again? Can't have been too scummy if a red check was stronger, but...

Another thing to think about is if Cora is fake claiming and Onegu is a mislynch target, why not build on what appears to already have been there with holy? Unless scum together etc, this makes HF being scum basically = Cora is scum. But if HF is town, why is Cora doing this?

Or Chezinu is the false one and Cora is simply doing what he should with a miller, framed, or really really way too tryhard scum XD

And in fact, I never take notes because I can't, physically impossible where I play from. There is shame here- yet I will do my best...

this post sits very bad with me.

feels like you are buying time
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 22:38 GMT
#2215
On November 27 2013 05:39 cDgCorazon wrote:
If you guys can't see how Onegu is scum even after a red check, I don't really want to play the game anymore.

We're lynching Onegu first. The argument about framer/GF is as much WIFOM as the argument that HF missed two saves. I'm not going to have you guys not listen to me three days in a row and so I'm going to force an Onegu lynch first.

My vote stays on Onegu.

I know you want to be the hero with the day2 onegu case and the cop check.

however holygflare is the safer choice.
hes deffo scum.

chexz is deffo scum

and between slam/onegu, slam is worrying me with his spam. hes talking a lot but saying absolutely nothing.

out of those 4, if there was not a reds check,, I would be inclined to think onegu is the towniest.

please join us with holy.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 22:55 GMT
#2217
On November 27 2013 07:44 Alakaslam wrote:
Frankly, thus far I more agree with Bereft than with cDgCorazon.

##Vote: Holyflare

why is that?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 23:04 GMT
#2222
On November 27 2013 07:59 Holyflare wrote:
How can nobody else see this play? It's onegu, onegu, onegu for 3 straight days and then suddenly red check on onegu, NO MORE ONEGU! lolololol

were you even voting onegu before?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 23:06 GMT
#2225
On November 27 2013 08:04 Holyflare wrote:
Wanna know why I didn't claim my 'saves' during the night? It's because i'm the fucking vet you tools. Nobody has even shot me so far so I haven't lost my vet, I completely made up my flavour and it was so bad, I even put the wrong name in the brackets instead of doctor >_>

ohh the same vet onegu fake claimed with in hogwartsa.. that the forum vets said is the easiest fake claim to make because there is no way to confirm it.


gotcha
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 23:06 GMT
#2226
On November 27 2013 08:05 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 08:04 Mocsta wrote:
On November 27 2013 07:59 Holyflare wrote:
How can nobody else see this play? It's onegu, onegu, onegu for 3 straight days and then suddenly red check on onegu, NO MORE ONEGU! lolololol

were you even voting onegu before?


no/??? because I think he's town

funny, because your quote suggests we pile back onto your town read..,
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 26 2013 23:11 GMT
#2229
you are getting very angry holy flare

you aren't even talking to me as if I'm your scum read.

yeah this is a good vote
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 00:16 GMT
#2233
Cora did post his flavour
His said town cop
Yours just says apparently vet

Yeah.. bah bam
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 00:57 GMT
#2241
OK.

Heres my role PM..

Original Message From GMarshal:
Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Jack McVitie, also known as Jack The Hat a Mobster (Vanilla Townie) . You used to be a hitman, a cleaner, the kind of man who would make sure problems would go away and never come back. That is until your family was mostly wiped out by a sting operation lead by the Liquidia Police Force, in the months after you managed to somehow keep the family running, now, you're in the running to become head of all the families, mostly based on your reputation as strictly honorable, and your willingness to put old quarrels aside in order to strike back at the cops.


Lets compare:
On November 26 2013 11:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Sergei Mikhailov a Private Detective (Town Investigator). You were the bright one in the family and was able to attend criminology school with the help of the "legitimate" side of your family's business. Your role in the family is to find the undercover cops so your business can stay clean and your family's "interests" remain undisturbed. Once per night, you can submit a name to the hosts and receive a message back saying whether your target is an honest Mobster or an undercover Cop. Crush those who would bring down the family "business"

&
On November 24 2013 10:16 Holyflare wrote:
Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Ronnie Lanzo a Smuggler, known as "the Runner", you've been in the trafficking business for so long you don't remember life without it. Once per night you can lock someone up in a shipping container (to keep them safe from the cops) at night. When you hide someone from the police, they will still be able to use their contacts and any other resources at their disposal, but any attempts to arrest or shoot them will fail, unless they are targeted by two or more kp. Protect your business, find the cops!

&
On November 27 2013 09:10 Holyflare wrote:
Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Anthony Spilotro an Ancient Mobster (Veteran), known as "the Ant", you're old, older than these scamps, you remember back when the cops were clean. Hell, you're part of the reason they aren't anymore. Now your age gives you a distinct advantage, you know how the cops operate and how the mob operates you can use this and the net of contacts you have to avoid the first KP aimed at you during the game. You will be notified if you lose this extra life



I assume these are all copy/pasted by clicking "reply" on the role PM.. otherwise, why type this out.

So with that in mind:
(1) I find it odd immediately that the vet claim is just "blue" and not "bolded blue"

(2) I find it concerning Corazon claim DOES NOT have an alias (i.e. known "as")




I'm still at the point where if Corazon had the foresight to plan a fake claim N1 then he deserves a MYLO victory.

Having said that:
In my experience with MYLO, scum post the bare minimum to swing the vote.

(A) Only now Holyflare steps up the posting -- probably null overall
(B) I'm concerned Corazon has posted way less -- worth scum points
(C) Chezinu is doing sweet fuck all -- definitely scum
(D) Slam is starting to spam and has made no effort to read the thread (officially) -- worth big scum points too
(E) Sciberbia posts has me at ughhh: Was just a consolidated post of 2 pages of my filter interactions but treated Bereft post exactly like me, so is town regardless of if Corazon was fake claiming.
(F) Bereft has post of the thread.Has to be town.
(G) Onegu is trying hard. I'm not that fussed about the notes like Scib is to give a town lean. This is a pivotal time to make big plays.

I'm still happy with a HolyFlare vote.
I can not fathom that a town vet would make a big hoo haa about having to save Corazon.. insinuate he is a fake claim... AND then admit he is fake claiming doctor.

Further, when we were discussing Delay KP.. he never admits to the thread that he knew 100% that Delay KP occurred Night 1.

He has intentionally withheld information from town over multiple cycles & then proceed to lambast us.
This is a *BIG DEAL*.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 00:58 GMT
#2242
On November 27 2013 09:50 Bereft wrote:
E for effort HF, but sorry you are no GMarshal. you can take another stab at attempting his prose if you'd like, but if you honestly expect any of us to believe the awesomely moderating GMarshal would give us flavor with run-on sentences you have another think coming.

and now that you are caught out on it, you're admitting the vet claim is fake?

lynch this fool already. come on and do it, Cora.
Lol, fake claims are provided by GM.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:02 GMT
#2245
On November 27 2013 10:00 Holyflare wrote:
I brokeded my paste on firefox so I had to type it

Of course lol.. then why is (Town) missing from Veteran lol.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:04 GMT
#2246
On November 27 2013 10:02 Holyflare wrote:
If I said I knew where the kp went then they would 100% know that I wasn't a doctor and I'd be a vet, thus negating any vet surprise.

LOL.. how do scum go from knowing you are a vet.. if you fake claimed doctor.

Thats retarded..lemme guess, they had a rolecop and decided to check you N1, which is why you werent shot N2.

As I said before Holy:
*YOU* regardless of poor play had the power to elongate a scum victory. Delay KP was a tool specifically to enable eliminating threats like you whilst taking out active, influential townies.

That you were not shot already is a scum claim.

Please stop shitting up the thread.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:13 GMT
#2248
On November 27 2013 10:09 Chezinu wrote:
If two family members chose the wrong path, the robots win. C is for Chezinu and that's sweet enough for me!

I'm happy you liked my foresight.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:27 GMT
#2250
On November 27 2013 10:13 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 10:02 Mocsta wrote:
On November 27 2013 10:00 Holyflare wrote:
I brokeded my paste on firefox so I had to type it

Of course lol.. then why is (Town) missing from Veteran lol.


Town doesn't go next to veteran just like town doesn't go next to investigator just like the entire role is not blue'd. Cora is scum.

If I say "guys I know where KP went", then what does that say to you? Oh he's totally doctor and knows where our kp went bla bla. No, I maintain that I'm doctor and I saved someone and then likely get shot N2. I wasn't because scum made a cop claim to "draw" my heal and so wouldn't need to kill me. Now here is my mislynch!

My role states town and is in bold.

So I dunno what you getting at.

Further cut the crap. You have done nothing all game and now act as if you didn't want to be shot and complaining about being mislynxhed in MYLO.

Here's a pro tip for next time you are scum in MYLO.
Town don't whinge about being unfairly voted like you do.
.they make cases that are so full of cb they usually get ignored.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:36 GMT
#2252
P.S. (WIFOM ALERT)

GM last game was "smurf mafia"

This is the first post from scum QT

"I'm vanilla mafia with a veteran fakeclaim.

Just from looking at the setup, unless one of us gets lynched day 1, or we think we can bluesnipe N1, we should probably delay until N2 for the double shot."

This was the vet fake-claim flavour
Welcome to Smurf Mini Maifa I! You are a Mechanically Augmented Technician. Margaret Mead is your name, and you are working at this facility as the expansion and construction technician, in charge of ensuring that any new addition to the base or emergency repairs can be done safely. You lost the majority of youreyse, right arm and lungs in a construction accident during the riots of Ishban II, however the Imperium payed for cybernetics and now you are tougher than ever, although you still miss having color vision. You are protected from one KP. You will be notified if you lose this protection. Roleblocking supresses your protection.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:36 GMT
#2253
On November 27 2013 10:29 Chezinu wrote:
##Vote Mocsta

Hi
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:38 GMT
#2256
On November 27 2013 10:37 Holyflare wrote:
It's as if you don't read the thread mocsta, GM went away and ObviousOne took over when I was replacing.

OMG.. lol..

you are that desparate that you are assuming there is not a host spreadsheet that OO copy/pastes from?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:41 GMT
#2259
On November 27 2013 10:37 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 10:36 Mocsta wrote:
On November 27 2013 10:29 Chezinu wrote:
##Vote Mocsta

Hi

"Town don't whinge about being unfairly voted like you do."

See flare, That is How is it done!

##Unvote
Well played hahah, that made me chortle

PS: Don't break the Chezinu Rule
Umm.. but I have played with you several times.
There is nothing to break.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 01:43 GMT
#2261
On November 27 2013 10:39 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 10:38 Mocsta wrote:
On November 27 2013 10:37 Holyflare wrote:
It's as if you don't read the thread mocsta, GM went away and ObviousOne took over when I was replacing.

OMG.. lol..

you are that desparate that you are assuming there is not a host spreadsheet that OO copy/pastes from?


desperate...? If he copied and pasted then my role would be perfect and there wouldn't be a problem because scum get fake claims, don't know what to tell you because you aren't making sense!

Yet before you said "your paste in firefox" doesnt work.

Now you are blaming the inconsistencies on the host.

Not once are you taking accountability and telling us who scum is.




I have mislynched enough townies in MYLO to know that you aren't following the pattern.

Anyways, I'm done arguing with you. Its clearly going to go no where.

The only person that needs more presence right now is Corazon
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 02:02 GMT
#2279
On November 27 2013 10:48 Holyflare wrote:
I literally do not understand what you are typing, are you even reading what you write?

I wrote out my role pm which is from OO. I don't see the problem here. I've quite clearly pointed to Cora's fake claim, it is the most inconsistent out of all of them, no "known as" and all of his role is blue.

I brought up this fake claim from the offset but you had to wait for onegu to post notes before you even seemed to come to terms with him being towny. Now, you think he's towny and then the "check" is a lie, so you vote me off, that is inconsistency!

I get what you are saying but what I am saying is that it doesn't matter which one of you is fake-claiming.

All fakes claims have come from GM; therefore, any mistakes are related to GM not the fake-claimer.

Anyways, if I was in your position and thought Corazon fake-claimed, i wouldnt be harping on this point as much as you are. I would have *knew* he was fake-claiming; *knew* he was scum pushing a mislynch, and proceeded to build a case to prove that.

Thats how I have seen townies in MYLO act as well.

You are too lazy to do this *because* you are scum.

Good-bye.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 02:27 GMT
#2293
On November 27 2013 11:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
Hi Mocsta. My lack of activity is nothing game-related. I had school from 6am-12pm today and then work from 2-6. I have Tae Kwon Do class at 6:45pm and an English project to do after that.

I'm not going off the Onegu wagon. Mocsta and Rayn were allowed 12 hours and the D1 vote to play their ego battle, it's only right that I get my ego battle and I get to be the hero. I put all of the damn work in, and I'm not going to get anything out of it because NO ONE IN THIS THREAD HAS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED ANY SINGLE IDEA I HAVE PUT FORTH IN THIS ENTIRE GAME.

If you all aren't going to work with me, I'm not going to work with you. Vote me if you wish, but I would have to nominate it for the worst lynch of 2013...

/rant
so instead of working towards the safest win con for town.

You want an ego battle that could potentially throw the game?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 02:41 GMT
#2298
On November 27 2013 11:30 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc you are being a hypocrite right now. You took the town by the balls D1 with your ego battle w/Rayn and now you are complaining that I am doing the same? You're full of it.

Corazon. If you want to discuss mafia theory, we can save it for the post game. In shirt youncan afford mislynchrs day1. Obviously you can not in MYLO.

Bereft, scibs and myself do not doubt your claim. I believe you are town and also the cop.

Fact is. Checks are susceptible to tampering.
My best scum read is holyflare hence the vote.

What bereft wrote is a very sound approach to dealing with this MYLO situation. It has. Nothing to do with the validity of your contributions. We win as town TOGETHER, no one stands tall.

Join us, because without your vote scum is able to hop off holyflare last minute leading to a no lynch and game over.
That's when your contributions DO become wasted.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 03:35 GMT
#2302
On November 27 2013 12:26 Holyflare wrote:
btw a no-lynch is best lynch mocsta because it allows checks and reaaaaadsssssss

Walk me through this
I ain't filling ya gap
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 03:56 GMT
#2304
In smurf

Town had a medic
Scum had a framer lol
But the intent was to have experieneced players only.


If town has a cop, I prefer a gf or miller vs rb or framer
Framer makes game too complicated for basics as both could keep missing the same targets.

Gf/miller has a higher chance of guaranteeing dynamics.

Having said that I like the theory of hf being gf , thus making onegu certain scum
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:06 GMT
#2310
Scibs
How do you want to play this?


Corazon
what you are blackmailing us with is far worse than policy lynching someone day1.. far worse. It doesn't matter if you are correct, what you are doing is a cheap cop out.

And if you were hosting I'm pretty sure you would be devesated if the game denigrated to what you are pushing.

Whatever, my vote staying. Your fault if we lose to mislynch

/peace out


Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:07 GMT
#2311
Ebwop
Mislynch is. No lynch
I prefer slam over onegu for scum by the way
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:26 GMT
#2336
This is a fucking farce.

Corazon fake claimed... Is this for fucking real?

Holy.. u compared my role pm to Cora to show Cora fake claimed.

Why are you still assuming I'm scum??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:42 GMT
#2344
Because I'm on phone and wrote
U

Are you serious about fake claiming or not Corazon

Like wat the fuck....
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:43 GMT
#2345
On November 27 2013 13:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 13:35 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:32 Alakaslam wrote:
Rather is anyone asserting Cora started this?

Aqua/JJD/Mocsta made at least 5 posts in the format I suggested. I'm too lazy to filter dive them all but that is what started the bullying. I had a bit of a meltdown D2 about it.

But it was random?

I'm surprised it wasn't Rayne, he is savage at the drop of a pin sometimes

Is this convo heading towards solving the game slam?

Looks like you just talking shit to me.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:50 GMT
#2354
I need to see the on from bereft to confirm his also has a similar ending.


This is still totally fucked.

So we don't even k ow I'd sci is town now?

Corazon.. why was sci your best read to fake a cop check with.....
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 04:51 GMT
#2355
Bereft

What do you think?

Holy is definitely scum.. keep the vote their?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 05:06 GMT
#2366
U and holy are ruining this game.

Gm is a good host and deserves better than this.

You need to cook down and reread the last 3 pages.

Holy has scum claimed with how he keeps taking pot shots.


Look how he uses MY VT role pm to call you out for a fake claim.
Turns out he was right, but why is my role pm valid if he thinks I'm scum


Holyflare can play decent town. Even if he is time poor he doesn't have to be like this.


Again I want to know why you chose scibs. I also want to know why your opinion changed from. NIght 1 to day2...wtf??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 05:07 GMT
#2369
On November 27 2013 14:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
If this town cared about winning JJD and Rayn would still be alive.

Says the guy that participated

I'm going to say this politely.

Stop being a CUNT
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 05:08 GMT
#2370
On November 27 2013 14:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 14:06 Mocsta wrote:
U and holy are ruining this game.

Gm is a good host and deserves better than this.

You need to cook down and reread the last 3 pages.

Holy has scum claimed with how he keeps taking pot shots.


Look how he uses MY VT role pm to call you out for a fake claim.
Turns out he was right, but why is my role pm valid if he thinks I'm scum


Holyflare can play decent town. Even if he is time poor he doesn't have to be like this.


Again I want to know why you chose scibs. I also want to know why your opinion changed from. NIght 1 to day2...wtf??

I got a green check on him. Or did he?

I'm a good player and I deserve better than this, Mocsta.

Deserve better than what.

U said u were cop and checked scibs.

I checked ya filter and yes your attitude on scibs flipped after a check period.

Now you say you fake claimed.. I demand an explanation for the attitude shift on scibs
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 05:13 GMT
#2375
On November 27 2013 14:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well too bad Mocsta, you're not getting an explanation. Boo Hoo

How convenient.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 05:21 GMT
#2380
On November 27 2013 14:14 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 14:13 Mocsta wrote:
On November 27 2013 14:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well too bad Mocsta, you're not getting an explanation. Boo Hoo

How convenient.

Vote me then. I know you want to.

Im still making up my mind.

Your fake claim has lots of issues if I am to believe u were that confirmation biased to do it.

Even worse, if holy really is town the game is lost already because I'm not scum. So I'm very stuck with how to move forward.


The issues I have with your fake claim is you claimed BEFOrE the nks.
If you were and flipped green, why would we lynch onegu on your word??
Thread sentiment already shifted onto a default onegu lynch.

What you did has zero value as town... As scum there is massive value

I have to believe that you are that pig headed that you would do a fake claim with zero benefit to town to accept this at face value...


I mean fuck. In Hogwarts as town I fake counter claimed to lynch a doctor.. but in my opinion this is even worse than that play.


I'm almost considering voting off chezinu as safest vote.
I'm really undecided between holy/Cora.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 05:29 GMT
#2385
On November 27 2013 14:24 Bereft wrote:
holy is scum. cora is town.

alright public announcement. listen up scummers:

whoever piles on first onto the HF train will be saved for last.

Can u read the last post on the previous page.

Do u get where I'm coming from.

Do u think he is pig headed enough?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 06:06 GMT
#2388
Trying to think through this clearly:

Regardless of how poorly executed Corazon fake-claim was, I can not shake the feeling that Holyflare is a shark ready to pounce on anything to not be voted. Everything about him just feels fake and contrived.

I can imagine Corazon becoming frustrated enough to fake-claim. Whilst his reasons are completely different to my own in Hogwarts; I think want to believe this is possible from him as town. It is certainly true that he was openly frustrated with the lack of traction. The story is fitting.

I am very confident about a lynch on Chezinu. Aside from my case on jampidampi; Chezinu has offered no value to this town.

Between Onegu/Slam I am undecided. The easy call is that Onegu is scum and Slam is a complacent (and busy) townie that should not have replaced into this game based on schedules.

This simple solution provides a good reason for the tag-team effort between Holyflare/Onegu all game.

That Holy had a scum read on me, and how quick he was to drop that read to pursue Corazon suggests to me that Corazon *is* town and Holy *is* scum. Anything to secure a MYLO victory.



Corazon
I think logically, that Holyflare is the best lynch for today.

If going to go out on a limb and state that tomorrow, if we can not achieve consolidation 2hrs before the lynch.
I will consider *very* strongly to lynch Onegu.

For now my vote remains.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 06:29 GMT
#2392
Yeah. Same conclusion scib.

Cept I don't see chezinu being blue.


Well it's 5 to vote. So unless Corazon votes with us, it's gg

Hence why I would consider voting onegu if Corazon is going to throw this game away out of spite.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 06:46 GMT
#2394
An apology note for what.

He's the one bullying us.

Like mafia isn't a game of a townie gets their lynch.
It's a game to lynch scum and occassionally policy lynch town.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 06:57 GMT
#2396
If he's cop. Who'd he check?

I missed the claim so guess I haven't been reading him carefully.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 11:00 GMT
#2403
Lol.. this game...
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 11:38 GMT
#2409
On November 27 2013 20:33 Onegu wrote:

+ Show Spoiler [BORING !!!!!] +
On November 26 2013 09:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
Ok, can I explain why Onegu's interaction with me was a full on scumclaim? Unlike others, I'm not talking about the writing style or the words used, I'm talking about the facts presented in his posts.

First of all:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 06:25 Onegu wrote:
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.

I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.

That case was confirmation bias because you took 1-2 decent points about me (which alone are not enough to justify a vote or my lynching) and then supplemented them with saying "Corazon is doing stuff that he always does in every game, he has to be scum for it in this one".



Ok first look at the bolded part. Im not going to make a case and vote because people only skim them and read them fully only when they think I am scum. How is this a townies mindset? He is worried about people makeing a case on him. This does not come from someone townie. Now look at the underlined part, there is no reason to make a case this early as they never stick. What out giveing someone pressure and makeing them answer questions with a early case and getting a read on them.


Cora answer me this what is really so bad with cases and votes in the first few hours of day one?


This is the first example of him fabricating evidence. He mentions multiple times how I said that I did not like cases within the first two hours of the game. This is 100% lie. I clearly stated that I only did not like votes 2 hours into the game. I said absolutely nothing about cases in that post. Why does he come to the conclusion that I don't like cases either? He is trying to turn the facts against me to form a case against me. This is a super scummy thing to do.

Then, he changes his attack to "Corazon does not like votes at all".
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 06:33 Onegu wrote:
On November 26 2013 06:31 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 26 2013 06:25 Onegu wrote:
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
When did I say that sciberia was bad town? Please find a post where I said he was bad town.

I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.

That case was confirmation bias because you took 1-2 decent points about me (which alone are not enough to justify a vote or my lynching) and then supplemented them with saying "Corazon is doing stuff that he always does in every game, he has to be scum for it in this one".



Ok first look at the bolded part. Im not going to make a case and vote because people only skim them and read them fully only when they think I am scum. How is this a townies mindset? He is worried about people makeing a case on him. This does not come from someone townie. Now look at the underlined part, there is no reason to make a case this early as they never stick. What out giveing someone pressure and makeing them answer questions with a early case and getting a read on them.


Cora answer me this what is really so bad with cases and votes in the first few hours of day one?


Did you see any votes that lasted from the first few hours of D1 all the way to the deadline? No.

Also, I only mentioned votes, not cases. I'm fine with cases and pressure/questioning in the early bits of D1. Why did you blatantly twist my words there? It is because you are scum trying to fake a scum read on me in order to push the agenda of getting me lynched.

Town has to find reasons that people are scum.
Scum have to make up reasons that people are scum.

The fact that Onegu tried to twist my words so that it appeared to have me say that I did not like pressure/cases early D1 is a clear sign that he is scum.


Why dont you like votes on people?


Pretty much self-explanatory here. Why does he change his point of attack? He knows that I caught him lying so he tries to change his interpretation on the fly and continue to pressure me. This isn't a scum-hunting technique, this is a technique where he is desperate to find something scummy about me so he cuts all of the lies out until he can find something scummy.

Lastly, he decides to continue to spring his "trap" even though it's pretty obvious his bait is completely phony.

His version of the story: I make the post about not wanting to vote two hours into the game at exactly two hours into the game. Then I make the vote on Aqua 16 minutes later (which means that I would have contradicted myself in 2 straight posts).

What actually is the truth: I made the post about not wanting to vote two hours into the game 11 hours into the game. I then vote Aqua 11 hours and 16 minutes. The proof for this is in the thread. I showed him the timestamp for the beginning of the game and I compared it to the post that he quoted. 11 hours and 16 minutes.

What does Onegu then do? He knows he is caught in a really bad situation, so he just pretends that I never completely stomped his case and peaces out. How is that anything close to a townie response?

Onegu needs to be the lynch tomorrow. He told three lies in a 15 minute span and if you let him survive past D3 then this town deserves to lose.



Look where he underlines case 3 times and the look what I wrote and what he wrote. The first time he says Im not going to make a case on someone and vote them so people dont read the case and only look at it when they are looking at me for scum. The second one I am talking about cora being worried people are going to make a case on him. Third I should have used vote. But I want lieing I was excited I caught a scum cora. Go look at my notes I have a star next to the part about him makeing that post and 16 minutes later voteing. And I only looked at the timestamps of those two posts because they were at the top of one of his filter pages.


And I planned on trapping him the entire time, I never change my story.
And thats why you are scummy in a nutshell.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 12:26 GMT
#2412
On November 27 2013 21:08 Onegu wrote:
Also mocsta since cora asked me Im going to ask you. Are you fucking with your bbcode so when I quote you my points on you are all fucked up?

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

no









Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 12:29 GMT
#2413
Words of wisdom from Mr. Marvellous:

"
If a player is suspicious and simply afks, that does not make him town. That's my lesson for you this game <3"

Hi Holy!!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 27 2013 14:25 GMT
#2419
Lol; that is pretty funny
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 00:28 GMT
#2441
Wow. Onegu
You totally convinced Cora is scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 00:37 GMT
#2443
Luckily if scum jump off last minute we are ok

Cos tommorow will be 4-3.

Jeez Corazon.
Lemme guess, tomorrow you will refuse to vote onegu lol?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 00:48 GMT
#2447
I was being sarcastic.

Your case looked like holyflare wrote it.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 01:00 GMT
#2452
So scum is according to holyflare now
Cora, bereft and onegu??

Lol
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 01:12 GMT
#2460
On November 28 2013 10:10 sciberbia wrote:
HF if you flip town And we lose to cora/bereft scumteam I will apologize profusely and admit I suck at this game. But i really doubt it.

Shameless +1

With caveat
If Cora is scum, I'm never playing with him again.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 02:05 GMT
#2468
He said he's having dinner.

Like if you are town I don't care and will cop this loss on the chin
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 02:08 GMT
#2470
Well frankly holyflare.

If you are town, you shouldn't have signed up for the game. Clearly you couldn't commit the time/care required.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 02:11 GMT
#2474
On November 28 2013 11:09 Holyflare wrote:
Your loss is because this town is a victim of it's own scummyness.

Yes and you would be a major contributor if town.

I'm done with this diatribe
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 02:22 GMT
#2479
On November 28 2013 11:14 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 11:11 Mocsta wrote:
On November 28 2013 11:09 Holyflare wrote:
Your loss is because this town is a victim of it's own scummyness.

Yes and you would be a major contributor if town.

I'm done with this diatribe


I contribute as both scum and town so my lack of contribution is null at best, I tried to switch up my town play because I was bored of being the crazy analytical one that filter dives everyone. I just made a case on bereft and you just admitted you are straight up ignoring evidence because you don't care if town loses or not. This is day 1 all over again - policy lynch 2.0

Nah.

The way you have gone about pushing your agenda is the problem. In reality there is no need to discuss until post game.

If scum, no shit Sherlock.
If town, you have shoved a cock in my mouth whilst I'm sleeping and then are calling me gay...
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 02:44 GMT
#2486
On November 28 2013 11:40 Holyflare wrote:
This is getting silly, I absolutely guarentee that after my death and the game ends there will be people posting that aren't here talking now...

This I agree with but more because it's pointless talking. This is the lynch that needs to happen.

The simplest scum team based on play is still
Holy/chez/onegu
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 03:00 GMT
#2504
Yay
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 03:00 GMT
#2507
Shame he's just. Goon
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 03:01 GMT
#2509
So Corazon really went through with it... Hmmmm
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 03:03 GMT
#2512
Sciberbia

Please don't hold too much value in onegu posting 27 pages of notes.

In wc, rise. Posted some spreadsheets or something and everyone thought he was town.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 03:29 GMT
#2518
Lol.. thatcwas pretty funny actually
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 04:01 GMT
#2521
So holyflare tried to copy blszinghand in Hogwarts.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 28 2013 06:11 GMT
#2525
On November 28 2013 14:22 Onegu wrote:
Can people read my cora case please?

+ Show Spoiler [Boring!!!!!] +
Cora plays very anti town, doesnt have a town PoV, contridicts himself multiple times. His day one lynch target 24hours in is aqua, his case is 2 points, first aqua goes from null to scum on cora with no reason, 2 aquas case and points on rean is wrong. Aqua responds, cora says his reason on point 1 is smoke and mirrors, and accepts aquas points on rean are legit. So cora has 2 points against aqua and one is completely shattered and cora accepts it is. So cora unvotes amd moves on. WRONG!!! Cora says nothing has changed and aqua should still be lynched. Rayn and mocsta shit start, aqua still who he wants to lynch. But does he push his lynch, other than saying he still wants to lynch him, he doesnt mention him. Doesnt say hey guys really aqua is scum check out my case, or bring up new points at all. His first case is BS, its scum attemptimg to look active.
- In my head I was thinking: I'm bored, how about I give Onegu some courtesy and give it a full read over.
- Then I realised "WOW!" Onegu has an 11page filter, maybe... *just* MAYBE he could be town.






BAH-BAM !!!!!






- Then I realised something else. You see Onegu:

Its impossible for Holyflare and Corazon to be on a scum team.

(1) Thread sentiment wanted an Onegu lynch
(2) Corazon wanted a Onegu lynch
(3) Its MYLO
(4) Corazon fake-claimed to get you lynched
(5) Holyflare Opposed the lynch as hard as he could.. even getting Corazon to admit the fake-claim

Whats the problem?
The problem is that scum want to win. As quickly as possible.
Give that it is MYLO, if Corazon was scum -- there was no need for Holyflare to battle him, put pressure on him.. heck even get Corazon to admit fake-claiming.

Further, if Corazon was *WRONG* about Onegu... Holy woulda just sat by idly and let scum mislynch to finish the game.

Onegu, we already knew you were scum before all this.
Now its proven and irrefutable

You *will* be lynched tomorrow.

The only decision this town has to make is between Chezinu and Alakaslam.
Considering Chezinu flipflopped his vote, and Slam stayed true.

Nothing has changed.

Holyflare, Onegu, Chezinu

Its just a matter of waiting out the required cycles.

*TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK*
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 30 2013 03:03 GMT
#2534
Wow.. ok. Head fuck achieved.

Onegu still scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 30 2013 03:03 GMT
#2535
##vote: onegu
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 30 2013 04:37 GMT
#2541
I am thinking lynch onegu
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 30 2013 06:12 GMT
#2544
Chezinu was an easy mislynch to win the game so im curious why scum felt this shot was the most beneficial.
Aside from playing mindgames, I don't get it.

I'm a certainty for MYLO as it's expected I will be too arrogant to consider all information.

Now bereft is plausible to not be shot based on vet claim.
If onegu flips a power role, will have to consider whether bbereftbtried to push to save onegu. But can crossbthatbbridge when we get there.

Imnsurprised sciberbia wasn't shot.

I was surprised when he was shot over aquanim, and am surprised now.

Another issue I have with sciberbia is his diminishing presence followed by +1 of me.

I'm I need to read in detail how hard sciberbia pushed for a onegu lynch as well.

Peace out. I'm not in town and have limited access. Above is food for thought
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 30 2013 06:53 GMT
#2545
Of course the other option is that scum shot chezinu to get the above reaction.

Slam is most likely scum.

Bereft, where u at?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 05:09 GMT
#2558
I'm down with a Corazon lynch

I think I'm alive because I have a strong town read in someone I shouldn't.


I will be home in about 6hrs and am will filter dive from there.

Scibs has voiced my concern pretty well. Oddly enough he didn't seem concerned I called him out. This game is just odd and my care factor has sunk to zilch.

That's courtesy if Corazon. I'm happy to lynch hun for funsies.

##unvote
##vote:Corazon
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 05:15 GMT
#2559
Like.. the more I think about.. the more I think it's stupid for onegu and holyflare to push the same agenda so hard.

It's more likely in my opinion for holyflare to be feeding onegu

Plus Corazon has slowly been banking towards a push on me ever since bereft showed signs of weakness in his town read on me.

I really have to re read holyflare filter.

If the lynch is between slam and onegu, I am considering a slam lynch right now instead
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 10:41 GMT
#2563
Probably scum lol
Don't you sound confident
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 11:08 GMT
#2565
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.

Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.

With Onegu quote above, yeah, i dont get it.
Its 4-2; if you are lynched (as town) its 3-2 and the only way its not GG is if scum shoot a ?vet? -- highly unlikely.
It should be game over.



As an aside its pretty bad that convo has died completely since I'm gone.
Diminishing activity in these times is usually indicative of scum doing the minimal work required to avoid the noose --- in this case the entire thread died so the tell doesn't apply.

Probably the three posters that have at least tried to contribute *some thought* are: myself, bereft and sciberbia. Maybe Onegu.

This again looks pretty bad for Corazon/Slam.
If Corazon wants to be such a town hero, I think it would have made some sense for him to give this thread some impetus in my absence.

/musings



Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 12:04 GMT
#2567
On November 22 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 1
cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu, thrawn2112, sciberbia, Holyflare
Aquanim (2): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneet
Rean (0): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet
Onegu (0): sciberbia, thrawn2112
Bereft (0): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (0): raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (8): thrawn2112, Mocsta. Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Bereft, raynpelikoneet, cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet, thrawn2112, Holyflare, sciberbia, raynpelikoneet
jampidampi (0): raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (1): Onegu, raynpelikoneet
JarJarDrinks (0): raynpelikoneet
No-Lynch (1): cDgCorazon
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Rean/Slam: Useless vote; but was AFK the 2nd half of the cycle
(2) Sciberbia: Helped to consolidate on Rayn; votes Corazon but is a dead vote as Rayn already had 6 votes. His votes are consistent with his cases though.
(3) Holyflare: Dead vote on Corazon is odd. Need to check if Corazon chucked the shits at this vote
(4) Onegu: Dead votes


On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 2
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Mocsta
Chezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, Chezinu
JarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta
sciberbia (0): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, Chezinu
Mocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Slam jumping onto JJD at a very opportune moment.
(2) Onegu again throwing his vote away again (but I know I am town)
(3) Holyflare throwing his vote away again.. this makes Corazon look slightly better due to the Day1 vote
(4) Scibs with only 1 vote. Need to re-check his position on Onegu/Corazon (his Day 1 votes)


On November 28 2013 11:51 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 3
Onegu (1): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Bereft, Alakaslam, Mocsta, sciberbia, Holyflare, cDgCorazon
Mocsta (0): Mocsta, Chezinu, cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Holyflare
cDgCorazon (0): Onegu, Holyflare, cDgCorazon, Holyflare
Holyflare (7): Bereft, sciberbia, Holyflare, Mocsta, Alakaslam, Chezinu, Onegu, Holyflare, Onegu
sciberbia (0): cDgCorazon
Chezinu (0): cDgCorazon
Bereft (0): cDgCorazon, Holyflare, Onegu
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Corazon jumps around as much as Holyflare. From memory this was him chucking the shits. The key point is that he had a dead vote.
(2) Onegu doesn't vote me for the first time. Instead follows Holy onto Bereft. His vote on Holy was a hammer in the sense it prevented HF from jumping ship.
(3) Slam is in the middle of both Onegu and HF.




(1) Without a re-read, Scibs Day2 vote looks bad as he came on board before consolidation time. The firm vote on HF isn't worth any points as Bereft essentially nailed HF forcing consolidation.

(2) Slams voting looks really bad. His play is quite far removed and he shows none of urge to improve his play like in other recent games. Reans filter also reads on the verge of scummy/useless town.

(3) Corazon's dead vote on Onegu is a *BOLD* play Day3. Its possible to argue he was asleep - hence was never present to consolidate; but, jeez this looks really bad next cycle and considering HF went down early-ish into the cycle, Im tending to think this is too dumb a move to perform as scum.

(4) Onegu and HF have some voting synergism. As I said before, I find it unlikely that scum would follow suit so closely, but its not impossible.




I think the best lynch for this cycle based on VCA is Slam (who I thought one of Chez/Slam was scum anyways).

Then need to consider one of {Onegu, Sciberbia, Corazon}.
To which, I am still probably leaning Onegu -- His sudden retrenchment of scum read on me seems unusual even given MYLO.

Going to read HF now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Alakaslam
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 12:05 GMT
#2568
On November 27 2013 23:12 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
On November 21 2013 10:23 Rean wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP

Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.

I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable.


Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia.


Scib, please adress.


The fact of the matter is I only have so much time to post per day, and I chose to allocate my time last night towards posting about Cora, my strongest scumread at the time, instead of you, as my read on you were not as strong.


My problem with Rean's early play was well highlighted by Aquanim. Part of the reason I'm not too confident in an Aquanim lynch is I've agreed with a lot of his thoughts about Rean and Cora.

Specifically I agree with Aquanim that Rean's early play lacks purpose. It doesn't look like he's actively scumhunting. In fact he has to be practically "talked into" his first scumread.

On November 20 2013 13:57 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:51 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:49 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=7#127

Ah yes, my bad.

Do you think Corazon's argument that sciberbia is scum is persuasive? Why or why not?


Persuasive...it's a good argument. Sciberbia was being more laidback, trying to avoid comitting to anything, so it definitely makes him look scummy.

Overall the kind of argument that gets discussion started and gets us somewhere useful, I quite like it. Guess persuasive would be a decent way to describe it.


Rean made a bunch of noncomittal observations, and then when specifically asked to look at Cora's argument on me, calls it persuasive, but also goes out of his way to mention that it "gets discussion started and gets us somewhere useful". He also doesn't score any points for agreeing with an argument that I think is objectively bad.

I also don't like how Rean repeatedly calls out lurkers. This is typical of scum wanting to shift attention elsewhere and perhaps start an easy wagon.

The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.

Overall, leaning scum on him, but probably not the best lynch today.


Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 11:08 sciberbia wrote:
I'm gonna put Cora in the same place as Rean for now. He could be scum and my previous points on him still stand, but there is enough reason to think he is town to not lynch him today. I was expecting scum!Cora to continue tunneling me, but I like that he has diversified his reads a bit and done some prodding and pushing with Onegu and Aquanim, for which I see more town motivation for than scum motivation.

I feel a lot better about lynching Onegu because literally nothing in Onegu's filter makes me not want to lynch him. He's been fairly lurky, and the little posting he does have doesn't look town motivated.

##Unvote
##Vote: Onegu


HaHA YOU SO FUNNY!!!

Funnily enough. If Slam is scum; I think this looks pretty bad for Sciberbia.

Could explain the NK as well.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 12:09 GMT
#2569
On December 01 2013 04:31 sciberbia wrote:
Mocsta - I have a really bad feeling about Mocsta being scum with either Slam or Onegu. Individually Slam and Onegu look scummier, but I just have a bad feeling that if we lose it's going to be because Mocsta is scum. Here are some reasons why:
  • Scumtells from D1, D2, that were touched on by myself, Bereft, Onegu. I haven't done a proper case on Mocsta myself as I've never actually wanted to lynch him (even today I don't). To be honest I was really hoping he'd be shot by now so I don't have to worry about him.
  • He's been so active and pushy that as a town leader he'd be a lurky scum team's worst nightmare. The shots on thrawn and chezinu rather than Mocsta are very puzzling to me if he is town.
  • He has established that he is prone to reversing reads over the course of a few hours. This means he is extremely dangerous in 4-person LYLO if he is scum because he can vote for anyone and get away with it.


Cora - If not Mocsta, I think Cora could be scum. After all, I've detailed how I found his D1 play somewhat scummy, and his play ever since his cop claim has been anti-town, to say the least. But I disagree with Onegu that his anti-town play means that he has to be scum. Townies can play anti-town too. I also have a hard time seeing why he would fake cop, and then retract it after convincing everyone he was cop. Unless he is very much a believer in style before victory. Meh. Overall, between Mocsta and Bereft in terms of scumminess. I really can't see myself lynching him ever.

Bereft - I strongly strongly think Bereft is town. If I'm wrong, he has done a hell of a job of fooling me by starting the HolyFlare lynch, claiming veteran, and keeping all his play and pushing of HolyFlare consistent. This on top of his D1 play (on which I was leaning town) make it too hard for me to seriously consider him as scum.




So the most pressing question is: should we lynch Onegu today? He has 3 votes if I'm not mistaken.

The sad thing is that unless we are going to lynch Cora instead I'm not sure we have much choice. There are 4 townies alive right now, and we need 4 votes to lynch. So if Cora is town, even assuming that we could get the other 3 townies on a scum, we wouldn't end up getting them lynched. If we NL, then scum just delays and we are in a strictly worse position tomorrow.

I'm 100% sure that I'd rather lynch Onegu than Cora, but I'm really not too confident that Onegu is a better lynch than Slam. Onegu has been trying really hard recently, and I dunno it just makes me feel uneasy. On the other hand, Rean's slot was fairly scummy and Alakaslam is hard to read/understand.

@Bereft
If it was all up to you, who would you rather lynch today between Slam and Onegu?
BTW. I find this post overall pretty bad.

Neglecting the content on me: its a bunch of waffle with no firm opinion.

The kicker is the conclusion where you ask Bereft to take a stand (after licking his balls saying he is a strong town read)

IIn MYLO strong town need to stand up; and mr. analysis Sciberbia is doing none of the sort.

This post makes me want to lynch Sciberbia instead of Slam.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 12:57 GMT
#2570
##Unvote

On November 22 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 12:32 Holyflare wrote:
Onegu is someone who prides himself in reading rayn, he even started to call him town at his last post before he afk'd. If he knew rayn was displaying his towny attributes why did he not try and convince any of you that he wasn't scum?

Well, his last post was at like 3am.. i dunno


So.. am I still scum to you?


From what I've read so far, I mean, you of all people have played with rayn and that vote just now was pure policy. You know I have also played with rayn a lot and so when I call him town based on what I've read you shouldn't throw it away and still lynch him. Yes he may have been obnoxious and shit flinging but that is because he was quite clearly annoyed at people. He was emotionally invested. It is hard to fake it the way he did and whether he was annoying or not a towny is a towny. You actively went against a win con because you did not want to play with him again.

THAT is scummy. There was Aqua who blatantly disregarded anything rayn said at all. The crux of it comes down to this: He had reads on people that disagreed with thread sentiment. He thought he was correct in those reads and shit things up, so what part of that would have been scummy to you? He went balls to the wall defending someone other people think is scum. Do you think he'd associate that strongly with someone if he was scum? That is not how rayn plays at all.
This post pretty much confirms me as town.
Hes been suggesting my name for lynch via the list above, yet when I ask him if i am scum he doesn't answer the question directly. Instead he rambles on a bunch of points and concludes those actions are scummy. Basically he writes a whole bunch of stuff to persuade others I am scum; but avoids commenting directly/lying.


On November 25 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 09:36 Chezinu wrote:
On November 25 2013 09:31 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 09:13 Chezinu wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:48 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:18 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 07:42 Aquanim wrote:
@Alakaslam: Just so you know, you're replacing into a slot I really wanted to lynch. I'll try and give you time to read the game and make your own reads - I'd really appreciate it if you post your thoughts long enough before the lynch I can think about them.

Ok. I filtered myself and found out, and also see that deadline is soon.

If I get lynched, well rean gets lynched but I can't possibly be rightly useful to town until later. We are at 80 pages, that will take me about a day, assuming I basically quit the other game. So levy the accusations against me and your current reads so I can not get modkilled right after replacing- and not have it be useless by voting no lynch or some such thing.

Why is who up. Act like I just read my own filter (rean), and therefore know little about anyone.


I'll oblige:

Onegu: + Show Spoiler +
On November 24 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
Why Onegu is scum and needs to die:

I'm just going to go through Onegu's filter and point out the scummy posts that he has made. Mocsta was kind of right when he says that no one has tried to push a lynch, so I'm going to try and rectify that.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.



Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>



Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post.


Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change.

Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy.

Anyway rean is really scumm though.


Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though.



This is basically his entry post and it doesn't accomplish very much. He kind of makes a stretch when he says that Rean did not point out what he agreed with on my post. I feel that it is because he didn't read the entirety of Rean's post. He then talks about calling Mocsta scum based on a decision he made before he knew whether he was scum or town (Mocsta made his self-imposed post limit pre-game). It's just a play to look like he is analyzing the game when in fact he isn't.

After that, he calls my case "terribad and scummy" yet refuses to say why. Didn't he just say that Rean was "really scummy" for not explaining what he liked about my post? He literally just contradicted himself in the same post. Why does he hold Rean to a higher standard than himself?

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.

Important things for everyone to know:

As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation

- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.

The others no idea.



Really? You dont know me yet?

On November 20 2013 21:12 Onegu wrote:
I dont like mocstas thread pressance attitude, something seems off about his thread captianism to me, like its almost forced. Its almost like he puts a post restiction on himself pregame, game starts he keeps it up, gets called out for it says Im not going to keep it, and then becomes thread captain in a way that doesnt feel natural to me....

Im not a huge fan on the aquanim case either Ill dig into it more in a bit.


Wait, didn't he say that he is ok with Mocsta giving up his post limit? Why is he not ok with it now? Also, he just yelled at Mocsta for calling him scum for playing exactly like he does every game. Why is he using that as a way to attack Mocsta? He contradicts himself for the second time in the first 5 posts in his filter. He's holding other players to a higher standard than himself. That's not a townie mindset.

He then has that really messed-up post where he quotes Mocsta's filter and I don't even know.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:59 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:52 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing?

Hes scum claiming.

Its impossible for anyone that played with me in Mafia LXIII to think i am scum.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434275&user=Mocsta
for any doubters



Dont talk about ongoing games.


Two can play at the nitpicking thing. This post is really useless and doesn't go anywhere. A townie would not worry about enforcing the rules and would have not posted this. This goes in line with the fact that his scum read on Mocsta is not really based on anything. He continues on this tunnel without any reasoning and without any proof that Mocsta is scum other than the fact that Mocsta likes to post a lot.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 15:32 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 15:27 Onegu wrote:
Rayn my gut is getting a little tingle from you as I am reading...

@Onegu
Could you explain this further? Do you think he's scum, or are you just happy to see him?


Yes somewhat scummy but I cant point to anything yet just a gut feeling, but these gut feelings on rayn have been correct alot of the time. I am slowly reading the thread while getting ready to go out


This post shows his feelings on Rayn. He thinks that Rayn is scummy due to a "gut feeling". It's not very good reasoning but I would not have been critical of this had he stayed neutral on the Rayn lynch. Yet:

+ Show Spoiler +
[Note: This is from his giant list of reads where he votes for Mocsta. I didn't want to copy the whole list.]

Calls out posts not needed to be called out like aqua not voteing his top scum read

Rayn calling me scum but not looking at past mini games, his meta reads on me are so bad

Doesnt look like he believes his case on aqua, harping the same point over and over when that point isnt scummy

The post where rayn calls out aqua for his spicydinosaur post was really good

Then he somewhat defemds me, but uses correct meta

Calls out sciberia, I like this post as town,

Calls out bereft also like but I disagree

Disagree with almost all of his reads, but post where he calls out mocsta for my meta was good

Post on if him and Jamp are both scum then lynch jamp first is actually townie for rayn, but not anyone else

Calls out mocsta for the cora vote to consolidate as its townie post town points

Unless is trying to do what I did in WC as scum which I dont see he really is town

Rayn saying those are scumclaims, wrong, but from a town rayn


Wait what? Didn't he just say that his "gut" thought that Rayn was scum? He contradicted himself again! To be honest, this looks like at first he made a decision to follow thread sentiment and have suspicion, then changed his mind when he realized that Rayn had a very good chance of being lynched.

Onegu continues to blame Mocsta for the Rayn lynch and continue on his un-justified tunnel in an effort to look like he has scum hunting. Other than his list post, he hasn't mentioned anyone outside of myself, Rean (only 1 or 2 times), and Mocsta. He has an agenda to get Mocsta lynched. One could theorycraft and say that Onegu was trying to capitalize off the Rayn lynch and get Mocsta to be lynched D2 to not have to waste a kill on him.

I'm not going to talk about much else in his filter. His case on Bereft seems like an attempt to scum-hunt after it was made obvious that Mocsta wasn't going to get lynched. I don't even think Onegu believes in his own case- he doesn't even vote Bereft. His filter dive consists of taking a few of Bereft's posts and making one-line analysis of them. It's not in-depth and I don't think that he wants Bereft to be lynched- he just wants the credit of making a case for the first time in the game.

TL;DR
1. He expects other players to play townier than him and is holding them to a higher standard
2. He contradicts himself- a lot. He's even contradicted himself in the same post.
3. He has tunneled Mocsta the whole game, and has only attacked four people, two of which he has only mentioned a few times (Rean and Bereft)
4. His posts and cases wreak to me of only trying to gain credit for scum hunting and not actually getting people lynched

There are other points that I have mentioned before in my filter (such as his activity and the fact that he really doesn't care about who gets lynched), but I think this should be enough to warrant his lynching today.

I would vote for him now but my vote is already on him. Feel free to ask me questions.

Most of this is true but I think the part after the second quote was me misreading. Most of this is still pretty good evidence IMO.


Holyflare: Holyflare claimed doctor N1 for absolutely no reason and said that he saved Thrawn. He replaced in late D1 and has not done much. His excuse? His doctor claim obviously means he is town (it's not an excuse).

Mocsta: Basically the fact that his votes gone through Onegu, Sciberia, and JJD in very rapid succession. He is all over the place with a lot of his reads.

JJD: I'm not entirely sure. Something about his Rayn vote and tunneling me.

Jampi (Chezinu): Jampi has been non-existant the whole game and would probably be the unanimous wagon if he had not been replaced and forced us to talk about other people.

Rean (You): Rean's filter is short and according to Aqua he gave very little of his own opinions and some other stuff. Ask Aqua about the Rean case.


This is appreciated, and rean's filter is short is like saying an ant is small. He is Rayne inverse. Which is quite bad.

Give chezzy and me a day to make acquaintance, and awaken the powers that slumber within caves, such that the war of the trolls shall declare the victorious town. (Let Chezinu catch up it is only fair- let me too please same reason. I assume that is why we aren't up for lynch yet.)

Jar jar drinks: VOTING FOR RAYNE- no stfu ppl. That isn't alignment indicative. It IS NOT.

Mocsta: ok. Well, I ask: if town always knew what was up town would win every game. However, is there incoherence on an unusual level?

Holyflare: ummm...

Well I have claimed tracker day one so not much comment yet. Trying to avoid hissyfit bias too, we are in two games now...

And ONEGU: most useful part of your post. Time to look closer! I may "sheep" you, but I want to see what is up from others plz kthx


Hi, I r chez. Did you obtain summary of what is going on? I only got sighs...

CHEZINU!!!

Yes! I think CDGCORAZON is a good one, what about you?

I am wanting to ask also, do you sell the balm for insanity? I have been afflicted by LXIII, go not there


With the dragon gone, my chances of winning skyrockets. However, style before victory. Having both the sun and the dragon live in the end is a more stylish victory. Just need to feed the dragon something else...

Right, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Not now. Not with the flares, sighs, and those that wish mocsta's demise.


btw this guy is saying cora is town and me, onegu and people on mocsta wagon are priority pplz, yet he won't actively say it to anyone because he doesn't want to help

This is interesting from Chezinu. Hes basically staking the scum team as HF, sighs = Sciberbia, thoses that wish mocsta's demise (=?Onegu?)

HF does not call out Sciberbia.
Also, HF is able to discern from this puzzle that Corazon is town. is he the dragon or sun? I have no idea; but that HF can state Corazon is town from this makes me think taht Corazon is indeed town!

This gets more interesting from this Aquanim followup:
On November 25 2013 10:12 Aquanim wrote:
I'm pretty sure "sighs" is sciberbia
On November 25 2013 10:13 Holyflare wrote:
who was also on the onegu wagon no?
HF avoids talking about the eligibility of Sciberbia and further implies that because Scibs voted Onegu -- Scibs is towny.
i.e. pointing towards Onegu being scum.

On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?

If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?

If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.

Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?



Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.




Tl:dr

Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu.
This ties in with what I said before about HF making no sense to challenge Corazon this way with the claim. here it is clear that he is calling out Corazon to avoid a lynch onto Onegu. What scum motivation is there to avoid this mislynch?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 12:59 GMT
#2571
On December 01 2013 16:58 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count


Onegu (2): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam,
cDgCorazon (2): Onegu, Mocsta

Not Voting (2): Bereft, sciberbia



No one is currently set to be lynched.

6 players alive means 4 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.

Day 4 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)

(1) My final scum team is: Holyflare, Onegu, Sciberbia

(2) ##Vote: Onegu

I am voting Onegu as we need consolidation.

(3) Bereft We need you on Onegu
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 13:25 GMT
#2572
P.S.
To be honest I prefer a Sciberbia vote. I think hes certain scum.

Between Slam/Onegu ima bit iffy. But I think Corazon won't budge which really sucks and leads to no ability to pressure Slam/Onegu for a better read.

@Corazon
You had the early scum read on Scibs, feel like moving that way?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 13:44 GMT
#2575
Onegu, you gonna vote Sciberbia with me?

Im pretty confident Corazon is town based on Holyflare filter.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 13:52 GMT
#2578
Whats that got to do with voting Sciberbia?

Its 5 sentences
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=129#2569

You avoiding the vote on a scum buddy?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 13:53 GMT
#2579
On December 01 2013 22:51 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 22:44 Mocsta wrote:
Onegu, you gonna vote Sciberbia with me?

Im pretty confident Corazon is town based on Holyflare filter.



Maybe as it is infinitely more likely he is scum than I am scum. But that being said if I cant have cora or you, I would prefer a slam lynch.

Ain't this an interesting perspective.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 14:28 GMT
#2582
Lol.. if you are town you would read HolyFlare filter.

You would realise how much we genuinely argue with other and you would realise I am confirmed town.

I am 0% of being scum.. but this is the same convo I had with Holyflare.. de ja vu 'ey.

Corazon holds the key here unfortunately. Based on your reaction to Sciberbia, I am pretty happy with your lynch over Slam though.

Then there is the same slip as HF ==> Assuming the game will carry on post-flip.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 14:33 GMT
#2584
On December 01 2013 23:32 Onegu wrote:
Wifom, and HF likes to bus.

LOL.. theres a difference between bus and meaningfully argue.

That you now rescind back to your cheap one liners ain't looking good.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:06 GMT
#2610
On December 02 2013 02:56 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler [Mocsta] +

On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 1
cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu, thrawn2112, sciberbia, Holyflare
Aquanim (2): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneet
Rean (0): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet
Onegu (0): sciberbia, thrawn2112
Bereft (0): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (0): raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (8): thrawn2112, Mocsta. Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Bereft, raynpelikoneet, cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet, thrawn2112, Holyflare, sciberbia, raynpelikoneet
jampidampi (0): raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (1): Onegu, raynpelikoneet
JarJarDrinks (0): raynpelikoneet
No-Lynch (1): cDgCorazon
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Rean/Slam: Useless vote; but was AFK the 2nd half of the cycle
(2) Sciberbia: Helped to consolidate on Rayn; votes Corazon but is a dead vote as Rayn already had 6 votes. His votes are consistent with his cases though.
(3) Holyflare: Dead vote on Corazon is odd. Need to check if Corazon chucked the shits at this vote
(4) Onegu: Dead votes


Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 2
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Mocsta
Chezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, Chezinu
JarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta
sciberbia (0): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, Chezinu
Mocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Slam jumping onto JJD at a very opportune moment.
(2) Onegu again throwing his vote away again (but I know I am town)
(3) Holyflare throwing his vote away again.. this makes Corazon look slightly better due to the Day1 vote
(4) Scibs with only 1 vote. Need to re-check his position on Onegu/Corazon (his Day 1 votes)


Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 11:51 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 3
Onegu (1): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Bereft, Alakaslam, Mocsta, sciberbia, Holyflare, cDgCorazon
Mocsta (0): Mocsta, Chezinu, cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Holyflare
cDgCorazon (0): Onegu, Holyflare, cDgCorazon, Holyflare
Holyflare (7): Bereft, sciberbia, Holyflare, Mocsta, Alakaslam, Chezinu, Onegu, Holyflare, Onegu
sciberbia (0): cDgCorazon
Chezinu (0): cDgCorazon
Bereft (0): cDgCorazon, Holyflare, Onegu
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Corazon jumps around as much as Holyflare. From memory this was him chucking the shits. The key point is that he had a dead vote.
(2) Onegu doesn't vote me for the first time. Instead follows Holy onto Bereft. His vote on Holy was a hammer in the sense it prevented HF from jumping ship.
(3) Slam is in the middle of both Onegu and HF.




(1) Without a re-read, Scibs Day2 vote looks bad as he came on board before consolidation time. The firm vote on HF isn't worth any points as Bereft essentially nailed HF forcing consolidation.

(2) Slams voting looks really bad. His play is quite far removed and he shows none of urge to improve his play like in other recent games. Reans filter also reads on the verge of scummy/useless town.

(3) Corazon's dead vote on Onegu is a *BOLD* play Day3. Its possible to argue he was asleep - hence was never present to consolidate; but, jeez this looks really bad next cycle and considering HF went down early-ish into the cycle, Im tending to think this is too dumb a move to perform as scum.

(4) Onegu and HF have some voting synergism. As I said before, I find it unlikely that scum would follow suit so closely, but its not impossible.




I think the best lynch for this cycle based on VCA is Slam (who I thought one of Chez/Slam was scum anyways).

Then need to consider one of {Onegu, Sciberbia, Corazon}.
To which, I am still probably leaning Onegu -- His sudden retrenchment of scum read on me seems unusual even given MYLO.

Going to read HF now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Alakaslam



@Mocsta
Why do you keep drawing attention to 'dead votes' after every vote count? I don't understand your conclusions in this VCA. Seeing as there was really only one main wagon at the end of every day, you can call any vote not on the lynchee a dead vote. Is there anything necessarily scummy about that?

Furthermore, I really don't understand how you can think this
On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:
Scibs Day2 vote looks bad as he came on board before consolidation time.


You are essentially calling me scum because I was wrong. But how can you think that given the two immediately subsequent votes were Aquanim and yourself (who is also, assuming you are town, confirmed town to you).

+ Show Spoiler [start of JJD wagon] +

On November 24 2013 17:28 sciberbia wrote:
Lurking through the rayn lynch is by far the single scummiest thing anybody has done this entire game. I can't even imagine myself, as town, reading the 100 posts between pages 50 and 55 (the hour leading up to the lynch), and not posting my thoughts. That's crunch time. That's when the game is won or lost. It's when all the drama happens. The lynch was in question and everybody else online was vehemently discussing it, but JJD was just sitting there passing the time.

On the other hand, I can easily see scum doing it. Rayn looked likely to be lynched so scum probably didn't feel much pressure. There's no reason for scum to be posting with a townie lynch coming down the pipeline.

Furthermore here JJD expresses his opinion that Onegu is town and HF is scum, but says he will reread.
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 22 2013 22:23 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Gonna reread Onegu but I haven't thought he was scum @ all this game so I doubt that's gonna change. Not crazy about Holyflare so gonna look close @ him.



He never posts the results of this reread. He hasn't been defending Onegu today even though he's looked like the most likely lynch candidate. He hasn't been pushing an HF lynch either. As thrawn says he's too content doing nothing.

Combined with what aquanim and thrawn have posted, this feels really right to me. Better than every other lynch.



##Vote: JarJarDrinks


On November 24 2013 17:40 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 17:28 sciberbia wrote:
Lurking through the rayn lynch is by far the single scummiest thing anybody has done this entire game. I can't even imagine myself, as town, reading the 100 posts between pages 50 and 55 (the hour leading up to the lynch), and not posting my thoughts. That's crunch time. That's when the game is won or lost. It's when all the drama happens. The lynch was in question and everybody else online was vehemently discussing it, but JJD was just sitting there passing the time.

On the other hand, I can easily see scum doing it. Rayn looked likely to be lynched so scum probably didn't feel much pressure. There's no reason for scum to be posting with a townie lynch coming down the pipeline.
...



Dunno why it didn't quite reach my brain until this repetition, but yeah this is damning.

##Vote: JarJarDrinks

On November 24 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote:
##vote: jarjardrinks*

Lets get a majority people !!!



So what exactly is it about my vote that is scummy?

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 01 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count

DAY 2
Bereft (0): thrawn2112
Alakaslam (1): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Mocsta
Chezinu (1): Mocsta, thrawn2112, Mocsta, thrawn2112
Onegu (0): cDgCorazon, cDgCorazon, Aquanim, thrawn2112, cDgCorazon, Chezinu
JarJarDrinks (6): cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Aquanim, Mocsta, thrawn2112, Bereft, thrawn2112, Mocsta, Aquanim, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam, Mocsta
sciberbia (0): Mocsta, Chezinu
Holyflare (1): Bereft, Aquanim, Chezinu
Mocsta (2): Bereft, Onegu, Holyflare
Thrawn2112 (0): cDgCorazon
What stands out to me here is:
(1) Slam jumping onto JJD at a very opportune moment.


And here Slam is scummy for being on the 'consolidating portion' of the JJD wagon, right next to yourself.

Basically I don't understand this VCA at all and would like you to expand on your thought process so I can see how genuine you're being. You point out pople for starting a wagon, consolodating on a wagon, and leaving their votes 'dead', but call all 3 types of voting behavior scummy. What would you consider to be townie voting behavior?

(1) Instant Majority is an important aspect of this game. Maybe I over-value it, but regardless, I was trying to consider who went against the grain in a non-committal way. Thats why I looked at Dead-Votes. Its not necessarily scummy. It was trying to find out avenues to pursue.

(2) It was clear. You had votes on Corazon/Onegu D1, and then are one of the first onto JJD. I said pretty clearly in the diatribe that I have to double check how you came onboard; but from that information solely - it looks bad.

(3) Slam is scummy based on having a +1 vote in the middle which seals the wagon.

(4) Townie voting behaviuor would be tied into the rationale behind the vote. I don't have time to do this for everyone. You are welcome to step in though.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:07 GMT
#2611
On December 01 2013 20:08 Mocsta wrote:
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.

Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.

On December 02 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote:

The bold is a complete lie. I voted for JJD. Why did you blatantly lie Mocsta? Were you expecting town not to look at the votecounts? Why are you throwing lies and shit accusations everywhere?
Someone is confirmation biased.
*I* pasted the votecounts for all 3 days. Did I comment on this in the VCA which followed after this.

*No* Because double-check showed it was wrong. Jesus Christ.. this game is lost because after Onegu you are just going to tunnel me and listen to no one. And because its majority lynch, you have all the power.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:09 GMT
#2612
On December 02 2013 03:02 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 20:53 Bereft wrote:
I can't think of a reason why a mocsta scum team would make this move. all it does is cast doubt on the town read almost the entire thread has on him. the only pairing where this move would make sense is if it were a moc/scib scum team. which is not impossible but pretty much gg if so.


@Bereft
What if Mocsta/Onegu is scumteam and Mocsta figured that he would be able to get a mislynch on Slam, but was worried for whatever reason that Chez was blue and would be able to confirm Slam as town or Mocsta as scum? Seems very plausible to me. This is why I think the Chez kill points towards Moc being scum (or possibly even you/cora) over both Slam and Onegu.

Lol. this is ridiculous.

I have been pushing for a Onegu/Chezinu lynch for multiple cycles. I most certainly did not have a blue read on Chezinu.

Chezinu points towards *you* but somehow this is completely ignored in your analysis.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:12 GMT
#2613
On December 02 2013 03:07 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Bereft] +

On December 02 2013 01:52 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 04:31 sciberbia wrote:
So the most pressing question is: should we lynch Onegu today? He has 3 votes if I'm not mistaken.

The sad thing is that unless we are going to lynch Cora instead I'm not sure we have much choice. There are 4 townies alive right now, and we need 4 votes to lynch. So if Cora is town, even assuming that we could get the other 3 townies on a scum, we wouldn't end up getting them lynched. If we NL, then scum just delays and we are in a strictly worse position tomorrow.

I'm 100% sure that I'd rather lynch Onegu than Cora, but I'm really not too confident that Onegu is a better lynch than Slam. Onegu has been trying really hard recently, and I dunno it just makes me feel uneasy. On the other hand, Rean's slot was fairly scummy and Alakaslam is hard to read/understand.

@Bereft
If it was all up to you, who would you rather lynch today between Slam and Onegu?

in response to this, i think an onegu lynch is the right move.

i agree with mocsta's post here:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 28 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 14:22 Onegu wrote:
Can people read my cora case please?

+ Show Spoiler [Boring!!!!!] +
Cora plays very anti town, doesnt have a town PoV, contridicts himself multiple times. His day one lynch target 24hours in is aqua, his case is 2 points, first aqua goes from null to scum on cora with no reason, 2 aquas case and points on rean is wrong. Aqua responds, cora says his reason on point 1 is smoke and mirrors, and accepts aquas points on rean are legit. So cora has 2 points against aqua and one is completely shattered and cora accepts it is. So cora unvotes amd moves on. WRONG!!! Cora says nothing has changed and aqua should still be lynched. Rayn and mocsta shit start, aqua still who he wants to lynch. But does he push his lynch, other than saying he still wants to lynch him, he doesnt mention him. Doesnt say hey guys really aqua is scum check out my case, or bring up new points at all. His first case is BS, its scum attemptimg to look active.
- In my head I was thinking: I'm bored, how about I give Onegu some courtesy and give it a full read over.
- Then I realised "WOW!" Onegu has an 11page filter, maybe... *just* MAYBE he could be town.






BAH-BAM !!!!!






- Then I realised something else. You see Onegu:

Its impossible for Holyflare and Corazon to be on a scum team.

(1) Thread sentiment wanted an Onegu lynch
(2) Corazon wanted a Onegu lynch
(3) Its MYLO
(4) Corazon fake-claimed to get you lynched
(5) Holyflare Opposed the lynch as hard as he could.. even getting Corazon to admit the fake-claim

Whats the problem?
The problem is that scum want to win. As quickly as possible.
Give that it is MYLO, if Corazon was scum -- there was no need for Holyflare to battle him, put pressure on him.. heck even get Corazon to admit fake-claiming.

Further, if Corazon was *WRONG* about Onegu... Holy woulda just sat by idly and let scum mislynch to finish the game.

Onegu, we already knew you were scum before all this.
Now its proven and irrefutable

You *will* be lynched tomorrow.

The only decision this town has to make is between Chezinu and Alakaslam.
Considering Chezinu flipflopped his vote, and Slam stayed true.

Nothing has changed.

Holyflare, Onegu, Chezinu

Its just a matter of waiting out the required cycles.

*TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK*



HF writes this when we're full steam ahead on onegu (post-cora's "night check"):
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 17:19 Holyflare wrote:
You people are silly. Guy claims cop AND who he is checking way before night is over and you expect him to live?? Then you say I'm scum?

If i was scum I'd know i wasn't doc and he'd be checking onegu who you all seem to think is scum too, if that were the case why would i let a cop check go off on my team instead of just killing the guy?

If he dies I look bad, so what? I've been in the shadows the entire time, watching, getting reads on who to save and then someone claims cop?? Thanks for taking away my heal from someone that needed it. I don't believe he is cop at all.

Cora being alive is a complete farce, I'm pretty sure his cop claim is very very fake because he most definitely would have checked me night 1 or 2 when I claimed over a guy who is actually posting because as he has stated, we don't know what these lurkers alignments are and we will never know, yet, he doesn't check any of our alignments at all. Just onegu who was under the most suspicion to get lynched today anyway?



Couple this with the fact that mocsta was finding ways for me to be scum with NK scenarios OUT LOUD IN THE THREAD, yeh that makes total sense. If he was town he could post this stuff after the night kills to get some solid reasoning but he posts them before the night was over yesterday. If you are town, what were you thinking? Scum is clearly going to go for the one that makes people look the most scummy.




Tl:dr

Cora's claim is fake, misleading town into a most probably towny lynch on onegu.

i think this post is pretty damning because he writes it at a time when he didn't think he'd be on the chopping block.

HF realized cora's cop claim was fake (probably because the "town" in (town investigator) didn't match the scum team's own fake cop claim). if onegu was town, there was absolutely no reason for him to defend onegu, because if we mislynched onegu, scum would have won. and if somehow the game lasted another day, corazon would be in hot water for his fake claim and scum would be set up to push another mislynch. so really there was zero incentive for HF to prove cora's claim was fake.

i also don't put much stake in onegu's pages of written notes (sorry onegu ). to be quite frank, i think i'd be more inclined to take notes as scum than town to keep track of all my running lies!!

as mocsta has said, BAM BAM!! i think we are over thinking this one. what we need to focus on is if we are sure mocsta is town and slam is the last scum.



Also, you've sold me on Onegu. Let's make it happen.

##Vote: Onegu

I agree that, given Onegu flips town, finding the last scum between Mocsta and Slam is nontrivial. I'm having a hard time deciding what to base that call on.

Slam hasn't really done anything to establish his towniness, whereas at least Mocsta has been quite active and has ostensibly been playing 'pro-town'. And Rean's play has been covered.

On the other hand, the night kills point towards Mocsta being scum than Slam. Also, ever since Cora and I voiced suspicions of him today, he went even more spazztic than usual, jumping around from person to person, calling nearly everybody scum except you. It's suspicious to me.
LOL. I am only looking at 3 people.
{Onegu, Slam, Sciberbia}.. Far from going spazztic.

Bereft
How are you buying this bullcrap? He says he agrees with you when both posts you quoted are items *I* put forth for discussion.

He thinks I am scum, yet blatantly agrees with your posts -- where you agree with me.
Its clear he is cuddling up to you.

If Sciberbia thinks Slam hasnt done anything to establish his townieness, why isnt he questioning him and pushing the thread?

Why is the thread dead when I am not here; yet, when I try and move the thread forward... lurkers like him that should have been posting content then want to call me scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:53 GMT
#2616
On December 02 2013 08:14 cDgCorazon wrote:
You're looking at Onegu/Slam/Sciberia but you don't want to lynch Onegu and you wanted to lynch me earlier?

You think Onegu is scum, you've said it at least 3 times. Now an Onegu lynch is on a silver platter and you don't want to take it? Why?

My vote is on onegu.

After speaking with him yesterday I firmed my read. What's the problem.

Bereft and me are the only two that are paranoid if losing the game. How the fuck is that scummy.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:54 GMT
#2618
On December 02 2013 08:18 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 08:07 Mocsta wrote:
On December 01 2013 20:08 Mocsta wrote:
Back on a comp now, and about to start filter diving.

Holyflare first + some VCA + I have to double check if Corazon maintained his ##no-lynch to deadline (because in my memory he swapped to Rayn). If his ##no-lynch was maintained, this looks pretty bad as he has never voted with town for all finished lynches.

On December 02 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote:

The bold is a complete lie. I voted for JJD. Why did you blatantly lie Mocsta? Were you expecting town not to look at the votecounts? Why are you throwing lies and shit accusations everywhere?
Someone is confirmation biased.
*I* pasted the votecounts for all 3 days. Did I comment on this in the VCA which followed after this.

*No* Because double-check showed it was wrong. Jesus Christ.. this game is lost because after Onegu you are just going to tunnel me and listen to no one. And because its majority lynch, you have all the power.

You said your double check was about the Rayn lynch and then made a statement that conveniently had nothing to do with the JJD lynch.

The second sentence has the first part a true fact (that I no-lynched D1) followed up by a conclusion that was a blatant lie. If you had said that you were going to check the JJD lynch, then it would've been alright. But since you didn't, it is you throwing lies around.

Lol. I didn't even remember you were on the jjd lynch. I thought you were against it.

What's the point.

Ultimately when thebfacts were presented by vca it wasn't discussed anymore.

Anything else was musings.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 01 2013 23:56 GMT
#2619
Bereft
I was away for 2 days.

My original thoughts coming back were why the fuck is no one talking

So I injected musings

As I firm up my thoughts via vca and looking at holy I became firm on onegu.

What's the issue here?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 00:33 GMT
#2621
On December 02 2013 09:16 Bereft wrote:
the issue is that you don't sound like a paranoid, confused townie. you sound like you are pushing an agenda. I believe you referred to scib as licking my balls and cuddling up to me. the word choice seems to me more indicative of someone trying to plant doubt than someone questioning assumptions and generating discussion. it raises a red flag is all.

do you still think onegu is irrefutably scum? do you think scib is more likely to be scum than slam?

(2)
Yes, I am confident Onegu is scum. My vote has not waivered either??

My main issue with Slam is the timing of his votes/posts. They are quite opportune in hindsight.
My main issue with Scibs is the lack of drive he is injecting into the thread + the NKs. I can't fathom how he thinks the NKs implicate me.. especially when considering that Corazon had a strong enough town read on Sciberbia to warrant a fake-claim town read. Scib should have been shot instead of Thrawn, and certainly instead of Chezinu.

I am leaning Sciberbia over Slam.. but need to see Slam respond to the two questions asked of him recently as well.

(1)
How is using colour language raising a red flag?
The important thing is whether you can understand my PoV - not necessarily whether you agree.

If you can understand my PoV then I am certainly not planting doubt and am in fact generating discussion.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 00:58 GMT
#2623
On December 02 2013 09:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
So why is it that you refuse to lynch Onegu again?


On December 01 2013 21:59 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 16:58 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count


Onegu (2): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam,
cDgCorazon (2): Onegu, Mocsta

Not Voting (2): Bereft, sciberbia



No one is currently set to be lynched.

6 players alive means 4 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.

Day 4 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)

(1) My final scum team is: Holyflare, Onegu, Sciberbia

(2) ##Vote: Onegu

I am voting Onegu as we need consolidation.

(3) Bereft We need you on Onegu
I even ask Bereft to consolidate

I don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 01:11 GMT
#2625
On December 02 2013 10:01 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:
On December 02 2013 09:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
So why is it that you refuse to lynch Onegu again?


On December 01 2013 21:59 Mocsta wrote:
On December 01 2013 16:58 ObviousOne wrote:
Basic Vote Count


Onegu (2): Mocsta, cDgCorazon, Alakaslam,
cDgCorazon (2): Onegu, Mocsta

Not Voting (2): Bereft, sciberbia



No one is currently set to be lynched.

6 players alive means 4 votes to lynch. If you find an error in the vote count, please let me know.

Day 4 ends in at 03:00 GMT (+00:00)

(1) My final scum team is: Holyflare, Onegu, Sciberbia

(2) ##Vote: Onegu

I am voting Onegu as we need consolidation.

(3) Bereft We need you on Onegu
I even ask Bereft to consolidate

I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

You're still reluctant to lynch him. You're only doing it for consolidation. Why are Sciberia/Slam/myself scummier than Onegu?
I am happy to go into detail about this, *if* you have read my filter and are uncertain.

But if you think that *I* consider you scum.. then clearly you havent read my filter.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 01:14 GMT
#2626
On December 02 2013 03:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Case] +
I would like to preface this case with "I want to lynch Onegu first but if you can't settle on lynching him, here is an alternate lynch". Mocsta looks a lot scummier with the inevitable Onegu flip (I call it inevitable because Onegu is scum and I've proven it 5 times this game) and I will prove to you guys why.

Thesis (TL;DR in paragraph form)
+ Show Spoiler +
Mocsta is scum due to his actions completely matching a scum Mocsta (lynches/nightkills) and his interactions within an Onegu/HF/Mocsta scum team. His D1 agenda was to attempt to take out either Rayn or Aqua (both strong town players, which he tried to do by sheeping on the Aqua wagon and was successful by manipulating Rayn's tempermental personality to blow up and have him basically self-claim scum). He sheeped on the JJD lynch to take out a townie. The night kill on Aqua was because he is a strong town player and the night kill on Thrawn was because Thrawn was buddying him and having a town read on Mocsta (an attempt to gain town cred). His interactions with HF and Onegu (especially with his reluctance to lynch Onegu) is an attempt for him to save his buddies and win today.


Part 1: Mocsta's actions this game and how they work from a scum prespective
This part assumes that:
  • Mocsta is good at scum (which is not much of a stretch)
  • Mocsta knows the playstyles of others and know who are strong townies (not much of a stretch either)

Mocsta's votes and the nightkills make complete sense from Mocsta's perspective. Any scum player would go into this game and ask themselves "Who are the strongest town players here?". The answers from scum Mocsta would be simple: Rayn and Aqua. His goal would be to take those two out as quickly as possible. He jumps on the Aqua lynch really easily and for no reason:

On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned.

Quote of the day.

+ Show Spoiler +
Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive
I gotta get some credit mason man


##Vote: Aquanim

Choo-Choo !!

Mocsta saw this lynch as a stupidly easy way to get Aquanim lynched D1 and jumped at the chance. He just +1s Thrawn and gives absolutely no reason for an Aqua lynch. This just screams of scum trying to get a good town player lynched without having to nightkill him.

We then move onto the Rayn lynch, which I don't really need quotes for. Mocsta knows Rayn's personality. Rayn can be a real big asset to town but can also make everyone think he is scum when he is agitated enough. What did Mocsta do? He sat there and waited for an opening to prod Rayn. Once he did that, the 12-hour shitfight that was the conclusion of D1 happened and Rayn basically scum claimed as town. That was "directly" caused by Mocsta and it's ridiculously scummy.

D2 was really scummy for Mocsta. He says that:

On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh

you huysbare playing like rayn.

looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.

thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time

need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.

avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.

conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.

if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.

people like onegu, holy, rwan [rean] are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,

cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.

good lcuk


Yet does absolutely nothing to get these 3 lynched. I tried to get a wagon started on Onegu and he said that he would vote for Onegu, yet:

On November 25 2013 10:40 Mocsta wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback.
I feel as frantic with the rayyn lynch.

Whereas two cycles in a row he diesnt care.

Why is it that it's all the same people talking at this pivotal time.

I'm confident we are all town, and scum are letting us in fight with each other.

Yes, wagon of justice.

##vote: jarjardrinks


He gives no reason for lynching JJD. He didn't say he wanted to consolidate and he didn't say that JJD is scum for X reason. He's just trying to steer the lynch off of Holyflare/Onegu. That is why he lied about planning on voting for Onegu, even though he said multiple times that he though Onegu was scum and that he wanted to lynch Onegu. Why wasn't he pushing his reads? He spent D2 jumping targets and trying to lynch outside of yourself/Onegu (who I proved was scum)/HF (who was pretty scummy). It screams of survival for the team over actually trying to lynch scum. The JJD wagon was a great excuse to coast his way into MYLO.

The nightkills N2 also make sense from Mocsta's perspective. He got rid of Aquanim, the other strong town player, and Thrawn, someone who had buddied him. He thought that we would take Thrawn's strong town read on Mocsta and take it as true words from a dead VT. This is the part where Mocsta should have died. If Aqua/Rayn/Mocsta/myself are all dead, the thread comes to a standstill. We saw this from D2 when Mocsta was strapped for time and it was just Aqua and I pushing the thread with Mocsta chiming in. The fact that scum did not want to take this huge advantage and kill town Mocsta makes me really suspicious as to why he is still around.

Warning: This section contains some WIFOM

Not only does the above make Mocsta look bad, his interactions between Onegu and Holylfare have been suspicious as well. Mocsta has been really reluctant to push or vote both of them and my reads on them make my scum read on Mocsta that much stronger.

In the middle of D2, Onegu came up with his weaksauce case on Mocsta. What would a scum team need in that situation?
  1. Mocsta needs towncred to survive MYLO
  2. Onegu needs to do something to make a case and get towncred in order to not get lynched


Why does this make sense? Onegu makes a bad case and gets everyone to think it is a desperation scum move to throw a case on a townie. Mocsta uses this to survive MYLO and win the game after Onegu flips red.

Mocsta and Onegu basically proceed to avoid each other to make it not obvious that it is a bus. Mocsta tries to steer the lynch off of Onegu (what he has done the last few pages) and Onegu has been trying to keep a scum read on me.

The proof that the scum team is Mocsta/HF/Onegu is in these two posts by Holyflare:

On November 27 2013 13:48 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 13:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:46 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:43 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:39 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:26 Mocsta wrote:
This is a fucking farce.

Corazon fake claimed... Is this for fucking real?

Holy.. u compared my role pm to Cora to show Cora fake claimed.

Why are you still assuming I'm scum??


I don't like this post. It looks scummy

That is how people get their points across

(Though I don't red stuff)

It's a FoS, it isn't a ihu

No, they did it multiple times and didn't follow up on it at all.

Btw Moc:

Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Sergei Mikhailov a Mobster (Vanilla Townie) . You so dislike the term mobster, you prefer to consider yourself a business man. You've never been implicated by the police, despite the dozen or so murders your family stands accused of. You are very much a neo-capitalist, having abandoned the old comunist regime at the height of the cold war, your ancient KGB connections still serve you well, allowing you to operate in the gray area between law and crime that is oh so difficult to pin down. Crush those who would bring down your "business"

This is my real role

That always happens. That probably means they dropped them. If not maybe they are just as scummy.

Mocsta told me one of my posts was "too constructed" and then continued to not talk about me. He just chimed in to say that post was scummy and then went onto other things.


cz he [Mocsta] is scum <3


On November 27 2013 14:35 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta, we've been had by the bereft/cora/slam trio!


Why does HF refuse to think that Onegu is scum and then flip-flop on his Mocsta read? It's because HF wants everyone to think his Mocsta scum read was just desperation attacks on a townie. However, his inability to keep his story straight means that he is trying to hide the fact that he is scum buddies with Mocsta. He wants to have the Mocsta scum read for proof of scumhunting but HF doesn't want us to remember Mocsta's scumminess. It screams of a bus to me as well, simply as an excuse for activity.

In conclusion, this game makes sense from scum Mocsta's perspective. I am very confident for the above reasons that the scum team is Mocsta/Onegu/HF. Mocsta isn't a bad player. He's not going to contradict himself and calling him scum has to be more complicated than finding something scummy in his writing. I didn't figure this out until I thought about the game and what scum would try and do. Mocsta's actions fit the bill for what scum would do this game.
Lets break this down.


(1) TL;DR
Mocsta is scum due to his actions completely matching a scum Mocsta (lynches/nightkills) and his interactions within an Onegu/HF/Mocsta scum team. His D1 agenda was to attempt to take out either Rayn or Aqua (both strong town players, which he tried to do by sheeping on the Aqua wagon and was successful by manipulating Rayn's tempermental personality to blow up and have him basically self-claim scum). He sheeped on the JJD lynch to take out a townie. The night kill on Aqua was because he is a strong town player and the night kill on Thrawn was because Thrawn was buddying him and having a town read on Mocsta (an attempt to gain town cred). His interactions with HF and Onegu (especially with his reluctance to lynch Onegu) is an attempt for him to save his buddies and win today.

I don't even know how to respond to this because its such a biased snap-shot of the thread?

(a) Sheep Voted "strong town player Aqua: How is this difference to other players in the thread that did this? My vote didnt even remain on Aqua and I convinced Thrawn to remove the vote.. like WTF?
(b) Manipulated Rayn into imploding: How? Rayn and I had town reads on each other until I disagreed with him regarding Rean/Slam. He was already chucking the shits at anyone voting Rean before I came back to the thread... like WTF?
(c) He sheeped onto JJD lynch to take out a townie... again, why is this scummy for me and not for anyone else?... like WTF?
(d) Reluctance to lynch Onegu... again.. why is this scummy from me, yet Sciberbia who made multiple cases on Onegu was also reluctant... like WTF?
(e) Interactions with HF... again I dont even comprehend how my interactions with HF look scum-scum (nor do you explain it)

Maybe these things * DO * make me scum... but Corazon has not gone to any effort to infer why these actions make *ME* scum, and *OTHERS* town. The confirmation bias is evident already.


(2) Scum Perspective
Part 1: Mocsta's actions this game and how they work from a scum prespective
This part assumes that:
  • Mocsta is good at scum (which is not much of a stretch)
  • Mocsta knows the playstyles of others and know who are strong townies (not much of a stretch either)
What has any of this got to do with pushing a scum agenda?

Mocsta's votes and the nightkills make complete sense from Mocsta's perspective. Any scum player would go into this game and ask themselves "Who are the strongest town players here?". The answers from scum Mocsta would be simple: Rayn and Aqua. His goal would be to take those two out as quickly as possible. He jumps on the Aqua lynch really easily and for no reason:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:21 Mocsta wrote:
On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned.

Quote of the day.

+ Show Spoiler +
Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive
I gotta get some credit mason man


##Vote: Aquanim

Choo-Choo !!

Mocsta saw this lynch as a stupidly easy way to get Aquanim lynched D1 and jumped at the chance. He just +1s Thrawn and gives absolutely no reason for an Aqua lynch. This just screams of scum trying to get a good town player lynched without having to nightkill him.
Firstly, my goal as scum isn't to take out strong town players... like WTF, maybe thats how you play, but not me. WIFOM regardless.
Secondly. Yes, I jumped onto the Aquanim lynch.. I already had issues with him earlier in the game, and again, how is this different to others that jumped on board as well? And if I wanted to get Aqua lynched because he is such a strong town player.. then why did I convince Thrawn to jump off Aquanim?

You are reading one post and creating fables to suit the story you want to tell.

We then move onto the Rayn lynch, which I don't really need quotes for. Mocsta knows Rayn's personality. Rayn can be a real big asset to town but can also make everyone think he is scum when he is agitated enough. What did Mocsta do? He sat there and waited for an opening to prod Rayn. Once he did that, the 12-hour shitfight that was the conclusion of D1 happened and Rayn basically scum claimed as town. That was "directly" caused by Mocsta and it's ridiculously scummy.
You do need quotes because this is flat-out wrong. Rayn referred to anyone that disagreed with him as scum. My prodding didn't come about until he started calling me scum. We actually had town reads on each other until that point.

If you are going to have the tenanacity to state that this is "ridiculously scummy" then explain NOW how this was "directly" caused by me.

D2 was really scummy for Mocsta. He says that:

Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
sihh

you huysbare playing like rayn.

looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip.

thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time

need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed.

avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight.
giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch.

conviction people.
I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me.

if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there.

people like onegu, holy, rwan [rean] are the best flips for day2.
I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons,

cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game.
if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life.

good lcuk


Yet does absolutely nothing to get these 3 lynched. I tried to get a wagon started on Onegu and he said that he would vote for Onegu, yet:

Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 10:40 Mocsta wrote:
Thanks guys for the feedback.
I feel as frantic with the rayyn lynch.

Whereas two cycles in a row he diesnt care.

Why is it that it's all the same people talking at this pivotal time.

I'm confident we are all town, and scum are letting us in fight with each other.

Yes, wagon of justice.

##vote: jarjardrinks


He gives no reason for lynching JJD. He didn't say he wanted to consolidate and he didn't say that JJD is scum for X reason. He's just trying to steer the lynch off of Holyflare/Onegu. That is why he lied about planning on voting for Onegu, even though he said multiple times that he though Onegu was scum and that he wanted to lynch Onegu. Why wasn't he pushing his reads? He spent D2 jumping targets and trying to lynch outside of yourself/Onegu (who I proved was scum)/HF (who was pretty scummy). It screams of survival for the team over actually trying to lynch scum. The JJD wagon was a great excuse to coast his way into MYLO.

The nightkills N2 also make sense from Mocsta's perspective. He got rid of Aquanim, the other strong town player, and Thrawn, someone who had buddied him. He thought that we would take Thrawn's strong town read on Mocsta and take it as true words from a dead VT. This is the part where Mocsta should have died. If Aqua/Rayn/Mocsta/myself are all dead, the thread comes to a standstill. We saw this from D2 when Mocsta was strapped for time and it was just Aqua and I pushing the thread with Mocsta chiming in. The fact that scum did not want to take this huge advantage and kill town Mocsta makes me really suspicious as to why he is still around.
This is ridiculous interpretation of facts post-flip.

We couldnt lynch Holy based on the doctor claim.. how is this a relevant point?
I tried to lynch Onegu several times and struggled to get buy in. I even have the first vote on him ffs.

Why is me not joining you on Onegu scummy? Its not explained, and why is it different from others not joining?
Again, double standards where the same tell are not relevant to others, but magically are scum if applied to me.

My whole position this game has been about the mechanic of majority to lynch. This should be clear.. and explains why I did not join the vote on Onegu. It was a dead vote and there were 3 scum in the game. It didnt matter whether he died first or last.


(3) Interactions
Warning: This section contains some WIFOM

Not only does the above make Mocsta look bad, his interactions between Onegu and Holylfare have been suspicious as well. Mocsta has been really reluctant to push or vote both of them and my reads on them make my scum read on Mocsta that much stronger.

In the middle of D2, Onegu came up with his weaksauce case on Mocsta. What would a scum team need in that situation?
  1. Mocsta needs towncred to survive MYLO
  2. Onegu needs to do something to make a case and get towncred in order to not get lynched


Why does this make sense? Onegu makes a bad case and gets everyone to think it is a desperation scum move to throw a case on a townie. Mocsta uses this to survive MYLO and win the game after Onegu flips red.

Mocsta and Onegu basically proceed to avoid each other to make it not obvious that it is a bus. Mocsta tries to steer the lynch off of Onegu (what he has done the last few pages) and Onegu has been trying to keep a scum read on me.
So you are admitting to making association reads. I am scum because of an unflipped Onegu.

This aside: I have never pushed that Onegu made weak cases on me to assert I am town. The insinuation that Onegu made these actions for town cred is proven false already.

The proof that the scum team is Mocsta/HF/Onegu is in these two posts by Holyflare:

Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 13:48 Holyflare wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:47 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:46 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:43 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:39 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 27 2013 13:26 Mocsta wrote:
This is a fucking farce.

Corazon fake claimed... Is this for fucking real?

Holy.. u compared my role pm to Cora to show Cora fake claimed.

Why are you still assuming I'm scum??


I don't like this post. It looks scummy

That is how people get their points across

(Though I don't red stuff)

It's a FoS, it isn't a ihu

No, they did it multiple times and didn't follow up on it at all.

Btw Moc:

Welcome to Back to the Basics Mini Mafia! You are Sergei Mikhailov a Mobster (Vanilla Townie) . You so dislike the term mobster, you prefer to consider yourself a business man. You've never been implicated by the police, despite the dozen or so murders your family stands accused of. You are very much a neo-capitalist, having abandoned the old comunist regime at the height of the cold war, your ancient KGB connections still serve you well, allowing you to operate in the gray area between law and crime that is oh so difficult to pin down. Crush those who would bring down your "business"

This is my real role

That always happens. That probably means they dropped them. If not maybe they are just as scummy.

Mocsta told me one of my posts was "too constructed" and then continued to not talk about me. He just chimed in to say that post was scummy and then went onto other things.


cz he [Mocsta] is scum <3


Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 14:35 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta, we've been had by the bereft/cora/slam trio!


Why does HF refuse to think that Onegu is scum and then flip-flop on his Mocsta read? It's because HF wants everyone to think his Mocsta scum read was just desperation attacks on a townie. However, his inability to keep his story straight means that he is trying to hide the fact that he is scum buddies with Mocsta. He wants to have the Mocsta scum read for proof of scumhunting but HF doesn't want us to remember Mocsta's scumminess. It screams of a bus to me as well, simply as an excuse for activity.
Who knows, its WIFOM. The fact that you are stating as fact why HF made the plays he did screams of confirmation bias.
Why is his inability to keep a story straight mean he is hiding the fact I am a scum buddy?

Why can't he be caving under the pressure that *I* put him under.
Why can't he be desperate enough to appeal to my ego.
Why can't he be throwing WIFOM bombs around before death.
Why can't he be doing <insert other>

How you jump to your conclusion makes no sense.


(4) Conclusion
In conclusion, this game makes sense from scum Mocsta's perspective. I am very confident for the above reasons that the scum team is Mocsta/Onegu/HF. Mocsta isn't a bad player. He's not going to contradict himself and calling him scum has to be more complicated than finding something scummy in his writing. I didn't figure this out until I thought about the game and what scum would try and do. Mocsta's actions fit the bill for what scum would do this game.
I contradict myself all the time as town. Even Aquanim pointed this out.
Him and Thrawn were my two strongest advocates. There is no town cred to be had by eliminating them. If I wanted to coast to victory I would have shot thoses agianst me.. My actions certainly do not fit the bill for what scum would do this game.

The crux of your case is summated as:
"I wanted Onegu lynched, and Mocsta has flipflopped about his vote with Onegu ... Therefore he is scum by ASSOCIATION"

Yet, others in the thread have also waivered around Onegu (e.g. Bereft + Sciberbia).
Why do identical actions apply town to others, and scum to me.

This case does nothing to prove I could be scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 01:32 GMT
#2629
On December 02 2013 10:15 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 14:09 Mocsta wrote:
I'm down with a Corazon lynch

I think I'm alive because I have a strong town read in someone I shouldn't.


I will be home in about 6hrs and am will filter dive from there.

Scibs has voiced my concern pretty well. Oddly enough he didn't seem concerned I called him out. This game is just odd and my care factor has sunk to zilch.

That's courtesy if Corazon. I'm happy to lynch hun for funsies.

##unvote
##vote:Corazon


So this post is from an alternate universe or something?

You write on sentence about how I could be town due to a post by HF but then you say I'm still suspicious. If that one point is enough to give you a town read on me, why did you vote for me in the first place?

I'm happy to lynch hun for funsies.

You've been pissing me late game. There are no spare townies left, so we all have to vote together. And the *ONLY* reason we got a lynch through on HF was because a scum bussed.

This isn't acceptable in my opinion.

Whats ya point?
I came back 6 hrs later, filter dived and voted Onegu.

You're accusing me as scum for being the most transparent person in the thread.... jeez
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 01:43 GMT
#2632
On December 02 2013 10:27 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, half of your defense is "those things are scummy but they don't make me scummy"...what?
No its not. I stated that you look at actions that I do and call it scum. And then when others do the same actions, you are not calling it scum.
I am stating you are double standard.

Look, I'm going to make this simple. You started the Rayn bandwagon. You prodded him until he blew up. You KNEW that he would blow up if provoked and you did that. It's ridiculously anti-town to get Rayn to blow up and you should have known that there were better lynches D1.
Bring up the quotes then because he "blew up" before I came back to the thread.

If you are saying that my case is based off of Onegu being scum, why are you so afraid so lynch Onegu? You said he is scum (in red letters) D2 and you decided to lynch both JJD and HF over him? You don't even want to lynch him now. Hell, I don't even know who you WANT to lynch today. You're just reluctantly going on the Onegu wagon. It just reads to me like you are afraid of what will happen when Onegu flips red.
Onegu is hard to read because hes useless, and I misread him in Hogwarts. Again, others have been reluctant to vote Onegu.
Heck, Bereft *just* voted Onegu.
Why is this scummy for me, and OK for everyone else?

The game makes sense with you being scum, Mocsta. Do you understand that? HF and Onegu have waffled on their reads on you and it looks really suspicious. Please, tell me how you would have played and who you would have nightkilled first if you were scum.
The game makes zero sense with me as scum.
D2: Bereft / Sciberbia / Onegu / Holyflare / ?Corazon? were considering me scummy.
Bereft even made a case I think.

Why would I shoot my two only advocates (Thrawn + Aquanim) to be lumped with people that want me lynched... This is absolutely stupid scum play.
And then you come up with town cred; but not once have I insinuated those kills were made to frame me. Your whole story falls apart. There is no sense to me being scum.

Who would I NK based on a Rayn flip? I can't answer that because I dont know who is scum.

There are 3 strong town players and 1 active town player in this group:

Rayn
Aqua

You
Me

These 4 people have driven the thread the entire game. Without them, the scum would have a really easy time directing the lynches. I'm town, so there is a good chance that you are scum. If we are both town, we would not be here right now.
Why is there a good chance I am scum.
Why does 3 strong town players and 1 active town player equate to 1 compulsory scum?

You state "if we are both town, we would not be here right now"
Yet previously you stated that Onegu kept us alive because with either of us dead he has nothing left to push....

I already said before. I think I am alive because either:
(1) Scum think I dont have enough town cred and could be mislynched - I doubt this
(2) I have a town read on a scummer - I think this is likely
(3) Scum want to frame me not via NK, but that I am still alive - this is a remote possibility but pretty weak play

Frankly. based on my games as town in MYLO (of which there are several): (2) is very likely.
I am known for being extremely confirmation biased in particular to my strong town reads.

Its all WIFOM though. The point being that with the amount of information at our disposal, there is no way you can come to such a certain conclusion. Even now I am not 100% on Onegu being scum; nor was I with a HF lynch.

If you can honestly say you are 100% certain that Onegu is scum.. either you are bussing him; or extremely tunneled and not willing to improve.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 01:45 GMT
#2633
On December 02 2013 10:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote:
Btw,
I think Thrawn is town. I did very much 24hrs ago; and his compulsion to keep swapping votes is towny to me.
It could put him heavily under suspicion when rayn flipped town, and frankly, was unnecessary as scum play.

I thought Aqua was town from 24hrs ago as well. Holy states that aqua is ignoring everything, but that is not my opinion. If anything, Aqua can't stop bantering back with Rayn. Again, this is over done knowing it is a town flip. Aqua could have easily nested on his read - but he did not. I have a town lean on him, but wiill still be reading his cases carefully (and with Rayn gone I expect more output like cases from him)

Me: I was transparent about policy. You want to call that mafia, whatever. I knwo this game is 100% different to my recent scum game. Nothing more needs to be said + I dont knwo why you keep insinuating I am intimate with Rayns meta. I have expectations of his play, but I am not a connoiseur of him at all.


Onegu: Looks pretty bad I agree regardless of AFK.

Anyway mocsta is my biggest scumread now. Also Rayn is a terrible lynch today please change, ill try to be up for deadline but no promises.
This in particular. Nothing to do with the AFK its got to do with how he went about the situation.
He gives rayn a town read, and forces town to consider Rayns thread opposition (me)

Compare this to Corazon who is trying to avoid continuing this ego battle - Onegu instead fans the flames.

Onegu *is* scum


The post I am referencing. This was about 9 days ago (216 hours).

I already explain this. Why are you refusing to read?

I was the first vote on Onegu D2.

People opposed the vote.

There were 3 scum in the game.. why do I have to force a Onegu vote?

Again, your entire issue is based on an unflipped Onegu. If you want to be making these plays, you should be doing it post-Onegu flip assuming the game continues.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:00 GMT
#2638
On December 02 2013 10:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.

Wild theory #1
(stated previously)

Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town.
Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting

Wild Theory #2
Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT.
After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team.
backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday.

This post started the Rayn craziness. What was the purpose of this? To provoke Rayn

Yeah OK, I provoked him and what? Why is it scummy to provoke people Corazon?

I had a town read on Aquanim and a scum read on Rean. Rayn was swapping from Rean to Aqua suddenly. Again, why can't I prod.

Even with the above, you completely neglect that Thrawn threw out several points against Rayn long before the quote above.

Be consistent dude.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:01 GMT
#2639
On December 02 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also, no one was suspicious enough to lynch you D3 except for the two scum players HF and Onegu. HF didn't even want to lynch anyone and Onegu made a weak-ass case on you. I didn't want to lynch you D3. That leaves 2 possible people suspicious of you.

You were not going to be lynched anytime soon so it actually does makes sense to get rid of people who would be better at finding townies. All you had to do was lynch one townie and you would have won the game. Your point is not valid there.

Why even make this post?

I put 3 scenarios I can think off the top of my head, and the one I felt was most likely wasnt even the one you are talking about here.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:08 GMT
#2643
On December 02 2013 11:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 11:00 Mocsta wrote:
On December 02 2013 10:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.

Wild theory #1
(stated previously)

Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town.
Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting

Wild Theory #2
Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT.
After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team.
backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday.

This post started the Rayn craziness. What was the purpose of this? To provoke Rayn

Yeah OK, I provoked him and what? Why is it scummy to provoke people Corazon?

I had a town read on Aquanim and a scum read on Rean. Rayn was swapping from Rean to Aqua suddenly. Again, why can't I prod.

Even with the above, you completely neglect that Thrawn threw out several points against Rayn long before the quote above.

Be consistent dude.

You should have known that Rayn has a limit and that if that limit is pushed, what happened D1 happens. He voted you so obviously you were the one who provoked him too much.

It's one thing to prod him with logical questions but to make a post like that has only one intention: to push Rayn past the limit.

It's scummy cause you got Rayn lynched with it.
it's conjecture. Far from pushing him to the limit.

Wild accusations from you to suit your theory.

Why ignore thrawns earlier case....
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:10 GMT
#2645
On December 02 2013 11:04 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also "I have a town read on a scummer" doesn't give you the liberty to switch reads every 3 hours.

Right.

So poor play is scummy play?

Stop being a Noob and looking at actions.

Are my flips transparent... If so.. it's typical of town motivation.


If bot transparent. Then I am hiding behind wishy washyness which is typical of scum.


Considering I have been upfront the entire game, I can not comprehend how this is being associated as scummy vs poor.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:11 GMT
#2647
On December 02 2013 11:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:
On December 02 2013 11:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
On December 02 2013 11:00 Mocsta wrote:
On December 02 2013 10:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:43 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:32 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On November 21 2013 23:21 jampidampi wrote:
How does admitting mistakes make someone town? You seem quite certain that he is in fact town.
Especially since Rayn had a scumread on Rean earlier in the day. Basically the fact that Rean admitted he made a mistake makes Rayn switch from thinking he's scum, to balls out hardcore defending him.

Wild theory #1
(stated previously)

Vonthin has played 3 newbies all town.
Suddenly rolls scum and replaces out before posting

Wild Theory #2
Rayn got his role pm (scum) and decided to replace into the thread before joining the QT.
After a while gets town reads and realises Rean is on his team.
backpedals suddenly and we stuck with this rayn now who is miles apart from the rayn yesterday.

This post started the Rayn craziness. What was the purpose of this? To provoke Rayn

Yeah OK, I provoked him and what? Why is it scummy to provoke people Corazon?

I had a town read on Aquanim and a scum read on Rean. Rayn was swapping from Rean to Aqua suddenly. Again, why can't I prod.

Even with the above, you completely neglect that Thrawn threw out several points against Rayn long before the quote above.

Be consistent dude.

You should have known that Rayn has a limit and that if that limit is pushed, what happened D1 happens. He voted you so obviously you were the one who provoked him too much.

It's one thing to prod him with logical questions but to make a post like that has only one intention: to push Rayn past the limit.

It's scummy cause you got Rayn lynched with it.
it's conjecture. Far from pushing him to the limit.

Wild accusations from you to suit your theory.

Why ignore thrawns earlier case....

Why make a post like that?
because you ignored thrawn provoking rayn before I did.

I am highlighting your tunnel.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:12 GMT
#2648
Both have been answered
Where is the breakdown?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:19 GMT
#2652
See Corazon
You aren't talking to me to ascertain ny alignment.
.you have already made up your mind and will take whatever I say negatively.

This is a back to basics game. I hope you learn from this and take on the feedback.


I stand by you being town abd I stand by you being stubborn.
This game is over regardless of whether onegu flips town or scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:27 GMT
#2654
On December 02 2013 11:22 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2013 11:19 Mocsta wrote:
See Corazon
You aren't talking to me to ascertain ny alignment.
.you have already made up your mind and will take whatever I say negatively.

This is a back to basics game. I hope you learn from this and take on the feedback.


I stand by you being town abd I stand by you being stubborn.
This game is over regardless of whether onegu flips town or scum.

Because you refuse to touch on the fact that you said "Onegu is scum" N1 and haven't pushed for his lynch (or anyone else's lynch) since then. Ever since N1 you haven't had the same reads for 3 hours at a time and you don't even believe in the ones you have now.

You don't want to lynch Onegu. Admit it.
Corazon:
You're completely wasting my time now. You are certainly not the "hero" this town needs.

This will be my last post until post-game. Yes, even if the game continues after Onegu.


//You are on my personal ban list.
I have zero desire to continue playing with you now; nor in the future.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:39 GMT
#2657
//RANT
You are not being a dick to me & Thats not my problem with you.

In a normal game where 2 votes can lynch someone, I dont need to coddle you by the balls to secure a lynch.

This game is completely different in my OPINION, and there are no spare townies left.
You have already proven over 48hrs + you dont give two shits on this town.. I repeat.. the only reason we lynched Holyflare is because SCUM BUSSED HF

This is unacceptable and you are goign to rinse/repeat with me.
I have no desire to waste another 72hrs of my life (Night + 48hrs vote) for nothing.

Like, I'm done.

//rant over
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:42 GMT
#2659
That has nothing to do with the plausibility of me being scum.

Because of this lynch mechanic: you are ruining the game for everyone single-handedly.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:45 GMT
#2662
You are venting your frustration at failing to secure a Onegu lynch towards me.

So again: That has no plausibility towards me being scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 02:51 GMT
#2665
How is this not about me being scum.

You are having a monologue with me; where you ask leading questions.

You have zero interest to divine my alignment -- you have already made your mind up.


This is a game of mafia, ppl make cases and campaign for traction. Getting ignored happens to everyone.
You take it to the next level by abusing the mechanics to attempt to force your lynch.
I don't care why you reacted the way you did.. all i know is that next cycle when you insta-vote me.
I have no power to do anything other than achieve a no-lynch. That stinx, and I have lost all interest in the game.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 03:01 GMT
#2670
Who knows why. It happened, just like it happens in real life.

But in your case you accuse me of being scum for saying i would vote onegu and then not doing it after your "massive-effort case".

So yeah, this is all about me being scum, and not about you being butt hurt.

What you should be asking about is why Sciberbia dropped his hard read on Onegu so easily to lynch JJD. From the VCA, his vote stayed there even after your Onegu case.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 03:02 GMT
#2672
On December 02 2013 12:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
Onegu. Never play. Again.

No you....

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 03:05 GMT
#2677
and slam/sciberbia still arent here.

Celebrating the win i see.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 03:13 GMT
#2680
On December 02 2013 12:11 Bereft wrote:
man, this game sure degenerated quickly.

and to think i thought this game might finally reverse my 0% TL win rate.

G_G

Whats your read on me now.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 03:17 GMT
#2682
On December 02 2013 12:15 cDgCorazon wrote:
GG scum. You guys played well but when Rayn and Onegu are both town, the hosts need to give us more mislynches or a killing role XD

Are you scum claiming or something?

Your reaction to dropping me as a read is not natural even with a Onegu flip. Im surprised you admit 50% is association based, because you werent doing this before.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 03:20 GMT
#2684
It never worked if Onegu was scum either.. what you are saying doesnt make sense.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 04:19 GMT
#2690
Here's a q.

Bereft the stuff you say scibs is in the same page... Did he comment first or plus 1???
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 02 2013 08:35 GMT
#2692
On December 02 2013 17:07 sciberbia wrote:
unghhh god why is this game so hard

sorry Onegu. gg

ugh sorry everyone. I'm really disappointed in my reads this game. But with any luck I'll be able to redeem myself. If we win from here it'll go down as one of the best comebacks ever. Cora if you are town don't get yourself modkilled. It isn't over yet (maybe). Fingers crossed.

*yawn*

Bereft, does this diatribe of nothingness mimic your mindset too?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 01:44 GMT
#2699
Should I claim?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 02:43 GMT
#2700
The wait is excruciating.

This will be so disappointing.

The simple solution is probably slam plus scib

The win in style is prob cora plus scib. But frankly I would be shocked if this was true.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 03:08 GMT
#2714
I really didn't want to lynch onegu, but he kept biting at me.

Grrrr. I feel this game could have been won if it wasn't majority lynch

I felt that mechanic made this game more about postulating and campaigning.
In hindsight we probably should have no lynched, but then you risk being counter lynched.

Sigh
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 03:09 GMT
#2715
Another thing that annoyed me was the thread dying both times I wasn't here.

Like I was the only person that filter dived holyflare and chezinu.

This is unacceptable.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 03:12 GMT
#2720
Yep.

I should have played better. Too transparent.

Anyways , keen for feedback pls.

I think I had a good start and then coukdnt recover after the rayn episode.
Plus my constant doubt if sciberbia made me appear wishy washy to everyone.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 03:15 GMT
#2725
On December 03 2013 12:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 12:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's hard to analyze this game without mentioning Cora bullying the entilywn all game long while simultaneously playing the victim. It made the game hard to watch, I can only imagine how hard it must have been to play. Cora, I think you're a fine person, but you really need to consider whether an argumentative game like Mafia is for you.

My town play should be defined from the end of my outburst on D2 to the end of D2.

D1 I played like shit because of my bad start
Beginning of D2 I got antagonized to death for no reason
After JJD lynch I was too mad to play because this town made 2 dumb lynches in a row and didn't listen to me
Mocsta case was pretty bad but I couldn't see Slam being scum

But for those 12 or so hours I played really well.

I mean this constructively.

Playing well for 12hrs.. means terrible for 100hrs.

Mafia is a team game. Individual performances generally do not win games.

The quicker you can admit that fake claim was terrible, the quicker you can improve.

Further you fake claimed to lynch a townie and green check a scum... There is no way this is a good play..ever
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 03:19 GMT
#2730
On December 03 2013 12:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
haha, i'm nearly as bad as Mocsta was in LXII! ^^

Nah
Corazon dethroned me I reckon or hope haha

Sigh.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 04:35 GMT
#2776
Having read the ObsQT + ScumQT I have gone from bittersweet to pissed off about this game.

ohh well.

I disagree with Rayn on so many levels about this game and his comments in the ObsQT but in the end, hes entitled to his opinion and i won't be changing that any time soon. Will just have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately I don't know what to do in situations like Onegu/Rayn as town.
Both guys I fluctuated in my reads and tried to offer them an olive branch, and they spit it back.
I suppose I am making an emotional connection by getting agitated by that gesture that I pursue them for lynch.
I also suppose the natural reaction is for scum to get off the noose, so the tell is more indicative of town.
I *really* didnt want to lynch Onegu that cycle, but he didnt want to join me with Sciberbia.
I *really* did want to lynch Rayn.
When he martryed; I had a 80/20 read on him (which he keeps harping on about)
after the mislynch comment (where I was genuinely considering him to be town) I thought he was town, and turned into a 100% policy lynch.
Rayns problem is that he assumes peoples comments are stagnant.. i.e. once its said, its said... maybe for him his process of thought flows like that.. but when I am town, I constantly re-evaluate information.



The one thign that really pissed me off this game was discussion about town atmosphere Day1.

The first half was perfect... we had all 3 scum down.
Thrawn nailed LoneMeow
I was all over Sciberbia
and Aqua started Rean
---> This was also evident in the ScumQT.

In one fell swoop this all disappeared. I am not going to blame individuals here because its pointless. Moreso, that was really frustrating to see. What started as a perfect game then denigrated to an abysmal mess culminating in a series of fake-claims that were intentionally planned off emotion not logic.




Quick notes on people to meet the brief of playing this game:
Rean - Managed to walk a fine line between new town / scummy during early game.
I do think if you didn't replace you would have been caught though. Hard to give suggestions with such low content.

thrawn2112 - Great early start. Started to fade out towards the end. I don't have any suggestions on what you could do to improve as you were direct with thoughts, but also listened to others with consideration.

JJD - You played like a quintessential 'worker' townie. I think the sudden drop in activity was your down fall. I don't really know what more you could have done other than be more present. I thought you played well in establishing your townieness.

Corazon - Nothing I can say here. Yes, you made it clear you were town vs scum and I suppose thats it. Your case on me was terrible, and it should not have taken Onegu being lynched to come to that realisation.

Rayn - I dunno what happened. You started off well and went off the rails. My thoughts at the time were pretty clear, I explained I couldn't follow how you went from Rean is scum to Rean is town. Further, when I voiced these concerns you refused to join me in conversation. I dont care what happened afterwards. As town, being right is not even 10% of winning a game. You have to find a lynch, and campaign the lynch and achieve buy-in. You did everything in your power to lose credibiliity and that is FACT.
Honestly if this game wasnt majority lynch, i would have let you live. But as I stated clearly in my filter (which you choose to ignore) I wanted you dead because I felt you would cause town to never consolidate. Whether that is right or wrong, can be discused now in post-game.

Aquanim - Really shaky start. Felt distant and emotionally disconnected - which as per the obsqt you were trying to achieve. Later on became more involved and obviously became town. I think if I hadn't played with you in newbies you would have been a strong town read for the majority of the game. Because I had played with you in the newbies, I had expectations of you trying to not necessarily lead the town; but at least be an independent voicing issues -- you did gravitate towards this eventually. I think its hard in your case: you are more an analyser so need content; but may not necessarily be a generator (like rayn / myself). But as town you want to be present to indicate you are keen. Hence you are present but not doing much -- which summates your early Day1 which you got called out scummy for.
Perhaps the best course of action is to be patient and wait for more content??

Onegu - I dunno what to say here either. I kept thinking you were town and everytime I gave you a chance you would throw it back at me. This is probably my fault more than yours because I should have realised that a tunneled townie is completely capable of this behaviour. I guess where I waivered was before your mislynch, where you were starting to not consider me as scum anymore.. and then once corazon posted his case, i became scum again. Again, my fault as that is plausible behaviuor for a tunneled town.. sigh

Holyflare - Good work buying time and good fake claim. It was obvious you were scum but I had the track record where I couldnt push for that lynch. Played the blazinghand role to a tee.

Sciberbia - Look you played well. Biggest thing I could say is to lift up activity end game as that really sold you as scum. I had lost too much credibility by that stage to push you though. Having said that, Corazons fake claim gave you too much free credibility as everyone (including from myself). I really think you gave yourself away early game with the attack on corazon though. Managed to settle in well-ish after though.

jampidampi - Nothing to say. I really thought my case on him was good. sigh

Chezinu - Did a great job of baiting a blue snipe. I dunno how I would rank him if he wasn't shot. I dont think I coudl walk away from not lynching him.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 04:38 GMT
#2778
On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote:
ALL? bold words

Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone.
But the mislynch was intentional.

Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read.

I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 04:47 GMT
#2781
On December 03 2013 13:41 Bereft wrote:
moc, why aren't i on your list?

I forgot haha

Bereft - You became super town from Day2 to me because you acted as a voice of reason. Thats really hard to pull off as scum. I wasn't bothered that you thought I was scum; because you indicated you would still listen - which is really imporant for town.

As an aside, this becomes a problem for Onegu because unlike him. you actually followed your suspicion on me with a vote.

I don't blame you for holding onto your town read on Sciberbia.. but i do blame you for not neglecting what I said about Sciberbia.
Specifically, are you two in sync because he said things first.. or because he +1'd you.

I think considering the amount of activity you could muster, you played very well... HOWEVER, you needed more due to the game circumstances.

You were a universal town read and a "VET" so towards end game, was the only person that could push consolidation..but you were never present. This became a major issue when i was gone for 2 days. You had to carry the torch and didn't/couldn't.

I'm telling you this because I don't know if you realised the responsiblity you had based on the claims/thread sentiment.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 05:12 GMT
#2787
Yeah. Often it makes me skill stupid.

Recently, scummy.

Sigh.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 05:28 GMT
#2789
Yeah. I'm an asshole. Some people get away with it, but not me.

But I do agree with the above.

It's really hard not to post in those moments but yes . The best solution is probably to hold off pressing that post button and re read in 5min time.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 05:46 GMT
#2793
Yeah that's a good point actually.

I'm very guilty of being too excited to make a "content" and update later.

Definitely need to eliminate that in general.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 06:09 GMT
#2796
He might have been echoing but what's important is if you are always first. Then he is a plus 1.

I knew thrawn was town because at different times either of us had the same thought first and/or posted at the same time.

Full credit to scib for having a grasp of thread sentiment.


My plan was once u admitted he was +1 u.. I would show u how he plus 1d me to have no input.
But we never got that far
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 08:43 GMT
#2839
On December 03 2013 17:27 Onegu wrote:
Yeah Ill talk more about play and my thought process later. And what I felt about everyone elses play later tonight.

@Mocsta I didnt say I wouldnt vote sciberia, just that I really felt he would flip town, and would prefer slam if not you or cora.

I wouldnt mind hearing where you were coming from with the "thread captainism"
I never got that.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 13:09 GMT
#2856
Lol.
I was expecting some discussion on the mechanics leading to viability of the policy lynch.


Seeing rayn yell I'm scum in the obsqt, I feel vindicated for the policy lynch.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 13:47 GMT
#2858
On December 03 2013 18:08 sciberbia wrote:
One thing I'd like some advice on is how to look townie in the first 4 hours of the game. Almost every game I play it seems someone calls me scummy based off my posts in the first 4 hours. And that was the only point at which I was under any serious pressure this game. I see a few different ways to play it:
  • talk about the setup
  • make a hello post and then lurk
  • try to FORCE scumhunting even if not much to go on (what I did this game)
  • troll
  • post nothing at all

Talking about the setup is somewhat productive IMO but people always call me scum for it. Making a hello post and then lurking is generally seen as scummy. When I try to force scumhunting people get mad that my cases are somewhat weak (what do you expect it's 2 hours into the game).

I really dislike trolling at the start of the game. I find it really unproductive for town.

I've never tried just saying nothing at all and making my first post later. It just doesn't sit right with me. I never actively lurk as town. Furthermore, someone has to find a way to generate discussion so who am I to make somebody else do it.

Thoughts?

Are you talking about as town or scum?

When I coach, I tell the newbies that early game town/scum gotta play the same - but to me that is from a simplistic viewpoint.

Really, what do you want to achieve?

As town, you can do any and take the heat. You have your role PM and that should be enough to shine through - for players of your calibre at least.

As scum, which option is best I suppose depends on variables such as the time you want to commit, win in style, players in the game, players in your team. Heck, are you the first poster?

I think it comes down to what HF said. "Move the thread forward".
Town don't know who each other is, so "forward" is subjective, and thus, there is no clear answer.
All I know is: early game I felt you were trying to hinder progress (as my posts outlined to you).

Sorry for being vague, but I think in general scum play needs to be adaptive to the needs of the thread at the time.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 14:09 GMT
#2861
Perhaps, but even for someone like me that jumps at anything, that lean on Corazon was too far fetched.

I think you can establish yourself as town pretty clearly early on.

Its all about direction and conversing with people and pointing out things others agree with.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 14:46 GMT
#2867
Corazon
Whilst I am happy that we both progressed from the newbies together:
There will be nothing left of an already tarnished reputation if you continue to reply to this.

Mafia is a game.
Most of us probably don't know each other // let alone talk to each other outside this medium.
I don't see what you are trying to achieve by asking others to look through your eyes.

If you ever play another game of mafia: the goal is to lynch scum, not town. There is nothing you can say to justify your position on Onegu; and even if you were right about one thing - the game is still recorded as a loss on the TL database.




As an aside: I am pretty sour about this affecting my W-L ratio, but watevz. Happens to everyone I suppose.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 14:52 GMT
#2872
On December 03 2013 23:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
"Hey Cora, your case is wrong because this this and this"

I did not receive one single response to my case like this. So it wasn't a bad case then. Don't give me that hindsight bias bullshit JJD

I think it was specified by several people at the time that they thought the case held some merit; however, Onegu is a contentious read in general.

Just because a case is deemed "good" doesn't make it right.

Several agreed with my jampidampi case. Chezinu flipped town.
I'm not crying about it.

I find personally on TeamLiquid: Though some people have dislikes, in general: if you play good, people will praise you.
If you play shit, people will call you out.

You're not getting praise because you didn't play good.
I even told you on the game, we only lynched HF because mafia bussed. They could have forced a no-lynch and the game would still be over simply because *YOU* refused to not vote Onegu.
You ruined any chance we had of winning -- and i nailed the whole team when we could still win.

I'm not asking for praise.
Cop the loss on the chin and move on. - Preferably to another forum, because I meant it when I said i wont play with you again.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 14:55 GMT
#2875
On December 03 2013 23:50 Bereft wrote:
and lol mocsta policy lynching...if there's one thing I learn from this game it's that even if you are policy lynching NEVER ADMIT IT. because everyone winds up thinking you're scummy for it. better just to lie and say I 100% think he's scum than I 80% think he's scum and 20% want him gone. maybe it's just this game but by saying the latter, no one cared about that 80% and people ended up focusing too much on the 20%...


Yes, that is a big take-away.

To be frank, in my 20 games that was the first policy lynch I had ever seen go through.

Can I nominate Rayn for that? lol
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 03 2013 15:11 GMT
#2877
Seeing that last post of Onegu again.

I would love to know in general why all the town thought it was scummy to have a post restriction and then remove it.

Lol.. like its null .. but if you really wanted to stretch the alignment-boundaries, its definitely townier to remove it.
Scum should be happy to use it as a fallback to lurking.
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