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On November 25 2013 16:35 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
Yes I totally get where you are coming from. I just hope you can understant where I'm coming from. I have a feeling that rayn would've gotten lynched no matter what I, you, or lots of other people could have done. He wanted to be lynched. I realized this after reading his filter after he flipped. During the hours leading up to lynch I stayed in the thread the entire time, begging him to help me see if he's town if he's indeed town. He refused to take me up on my offer until right at the very end, because he wanted to be lynched. That made me feel like my time's been wasted, when townies are trying to get lynched. Then, two people that I thought were scummy during D1 stopped playing. I changed my mind about rean during the night but those two (rean and jampi) were who I planned on interrogating next. That didn't happen because they left. So I was forced to look outside of who I'd planned on looking at, I spent a lot of time looking at aqua and bereft and finally decided they were town. Ok... I'm unable to talk to my scumreads from D1 and the people that rayn suggest looking at, I look at and they end up looking townie. The very next day I was ready to start tryharding, I open the thread up and see you doing exactly what rayn did which is literally claim that you're going to be uncooperative, and this pissed me off because I had a very strong town read on you and I immediately though, "oh no, it's gonna be D1 all over again and we're gonna mislynch Cora." I really wanted to rage at you but I decided that anything I would have written would have only made the situation worse.
What do you think about jampi's play? I want to hear aqua talk about this as well.
Alakaslam I want to know your read on chezinu since you talked to him a bit during D2. Well, I am worried. There are two people with unadulterated power to Svengali me on TL, Five who bear great power to influence me; In order, they are: BlazingHand, Chezinu, VisceraEyes, Marvellosity, Coagulation Therefore, I refer you to the nazi rowing the lifeboat analogy.
Never mind that. What's your read on him?
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A(la)ka "Slam"
I take it you've already read rean's filter? Did reading that filter give you any ideas about who might be mafia?
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On November 25 2013 17:02 Mocsta wrote:
Further to jampi being scum.
Chezinu has made no effort to integrate into the thread.
Even when Scibs was roleplaying with him; Chezinu decided to be distant.
I do not profess to be an expert of Chezinu -- heck I have only seen him play scum.
But the couple games I seen him played scum, hes distant and unhelpful. (Matching up to my expectations)
I feel very confident about this slot being scum.
Chezinu's roleplaying has a purpose, it allows him to hide behind what everyone writes off as "trolling" so he can read people, and communicate his reads to his town reads without the mafia team being aware of his motives. I am not familiar with his scumplay but I'd assume that when he roleplays as mafia, he's hiding behind it, trying to make it look like there is no difference between town and scum chezinu. I remember playing scum vs town chezinu and it was terrifying, because I couldn't actually tell what responses I should give him because he hid his real questions so well. I don't think he's committed to his roleplaying as a means to catch scum. I could understand his points about scib but they are overly simplistic and some of the points are misrepresentations of what scib said (scib never called rean town in that post, only implied that rayn thought rean was town) That was what I meant when I said "not enough brown."
On November 25 2013 09:36 Chezinu wrote:However, style before victory. Having both the sun and the dragon live in the end is a more stylish victory. Just need to feed the dragon something else...
style before victory
On March 03 2013 12:08 Chezinu wrote:
VII. Style before Victory
Winning is not always easy. Winning with style is harder yet. Before you win a game, you must ask yourself. How do I want to win this? You want to be remembered for the fun you bring to the games and the style in which you win them. Winning the game as lurker is no fun at all, especially when you are mafia. Most of town will not remember that it was you who caused their demise, unless you send them the right message such as spelling GOSU with your night kills and sniping all of the blues roles. However, you must not limit your style to secrets. The reward of winning tastes so much better if you fool the town as one of the most active members. Be creative. Create your own theme if appropriate (point IV) or latch on to another’s, they will appreciate the addition to their fantasy (point V).
This is taken from his House of Chezinu guide. What is the style before victory section mainly about? Winning as scum.
dragon and sun
I know I may have shown my hand in regards to my question about the "dragon" and "sun." The dragon and sun are obviously meant to be certain people in the game, that's the explanation that makes the most sense. When Chez roleplays everything he says is a metaphor for something in the game. Why a townie think that winning the game with certain people still in it is worth more than a victory without them? They wouldn't, because they don't know alignments. A scum player would certainly be able to derive satisfaction from winning a game and not killing off certain players whom he deemed a threat to his survival.
What I'm getting at is in that post Chezinu was literally scumclaiming... style before victory, no?
/tinfoil
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On November 25 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
This game .. haha Ohh man
I will take that.
What did you think of the jampi aspect?
I was just about to try getting a wagon going on him right before rayn decided to lynch himself... since then I haven't put too much thought into it. I don't even remember what my read on him has been since that without going into my filter. I do remember the thing I found most scummy about him was his obsessive tunnel on aqua, which is a scumread he developed only immediately after I asked him about my aqua case. He said he agreed, voted aqua, then did nothing but call aqua scum the rest of the day iirc
do you think i'm being absolutely insane about that chezinu post?
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Jampi also completely avoided the rayn discussion.. yes, he talked to rayn a bit but never came to a conclusion and basically avoided giving his opinion on that whole ordeal.
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Alakaslam what are you saying? Are you trying to say that chez isn't scum? I thought you were null reading him?
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chupazi seems to be an omgus.net circle-jerk
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On November 26 2013 10:54 Aquanim wrote:
Thrawn, are you about?
yeah what's up
scum is onegu. 1 or two out of chezinu and bereft, then maybe scib or alak?
you corazon and mocsta are town i have no doubts about any of that. i can't say why i think bereft or scib could be scum because i am town reading them, more town on scib than bereft, but alas there are 3 scum so I must be wrong about something
onegu is mafia because he is way too confident in his read on corazon. he is pants on head in a scummy tunneling way. there is no way that a town onegu would ever say that he's going to be night killed because he has the game figured out... he knows everyone wants him dead, if he is town he would not expect mafia to kill him when they can "mislynch" him
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cor why do you think bereft is town?
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because i do yet i have no idea why i do
usually that means i'm wrong
will look at filters when i can get on pc
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corazon.. when there are cops... there are usually godfathers and/or millers and/or framers. if hf's claim is true then cop + doctor might mean we have all that + scum roleblockers. you should kept silent imo.
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btw moc, idk if this has been adressed yet, but all that stuff you said about lynching chez first is not good imo. there's pretty much possible way that onegu isn't mafia
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On November 26 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 11:35 thrawn2112 wrote:
btw moc, idk if this has been adressed yet, but all that stuff you said about lynching chez first is not good imo. there's pretty much possible way that onegu isn't mafia I find it highly likely that Onegu is mafia But I find it conclusive that jampi is mafia. I dont see the point of this post? Are you arguing that jampi could be town?
no they are both mafia
but onegu's derp conversation with corazon "confirms" him as scum so we lynch him first
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On November 26 2013 11:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 11:35 thrawn2112 wrote:
btw moc, idk if this has been adressed yet, but all that stuff you said about lynching chez first is not good imo. there's pretty much possible way that onegu isn't mafia I find it highly likely that Onegu is mafia But I find it conclusive that jampi is mafia. I dont see the point of this post? Are you arguing that jampi could be town?
my response to this should have been
swtich "highly likely" and "conclusive" and those are my reads... opposite of yours. wanting to lynch for info is bad
do you think that there is any possilbe way for a town onegu, who knows that he almost got lynched d2 and that people want to lynch him in d3, thinks that he will be nightkilled? that post was so fake.. here let me show you
On November 26 2013 06:06 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 05:56 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 26 2013 05:54 Onegu wrote:
Its mocsta who failed at bbc code in his spoiler btw not me Well I wrote that post you quoted because I thought it was a case on me. If you were reading you would've seen that I realized that. Trust me Im reading very close. You wont like what I found since I will prove you are scum, since its 4am Im going to give you the big things now, and do a full case like mocsta where I dont cherrypick and show all your scummyness tomorrow, but since I am now right onto the real scumteam I might be shot tonight. Preview + Show Spoiler + Mocsta, cDgCorazon, rean/alakaslam
to quote corazon
"LOL"
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need to not take acid during the middle of a mafia game.. maybe i would have been less eager to town read everyone for no reason
I've talked about why I'm bad for lynching rayn in the obs qt..
I think my other biggest problem was letting Corazon get on my nerves. I stopped caring during D2. I knew Cor was town... but what should I do in that situation? I didn't feel like there was any action I could take other than lynching Onegu that wouldn't end up with Corazon interrupting every single conversation I tried to start.
I wrote a lot more than this but it became more and more about other people instead of myself so I will stop here for now. I'll continue after... after the flames of passion have died down.
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On December 03 2013 12:21 cDgCorazon wrote:
How am I supposed to feel when that happens?
it's not about feelings. it's about your wincon. if you're town that means it's about who is scum and who is not. in that scenario you referred to, neither of us were correct.
injecting your emotions into the game, especially when they are negative can only decrease the quality of yours and everyone else's logic
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corazon.... please take a step back from this and realize the following
We are arguing about if town should have listened to me and lynched a townie, or listened to you and lynched a townie! Neither of those options align with our alignment's win condition!
+ Show Spoiler +While we're on the subject I'm going to say my piece then I won't talk about it again, because as I just stated, this is a pointless argument. You are mistaking town going "no we don't want to lynch ongeu" with town going "we are ignoring you." Nobody ignored your Onegu cases. Maybe people did initially in a "tldr" fashion, but people usually go back and read things they skip the first time. I read your Onegu case. I agreed with what you said. That doesn't mean that Onegu must become my top scumread. I can have my own scumreads! When you say that we bullied you, what actually happened is that nobody agreed that Onegu was the top lynch candidate. That's all! Nobody wrote "fuck you corazon you're a fucking idiot" and nobody wrote "hey guys lets all make fun of corazon!" That isn't what happened at all.
Done with that
As I mentioned at the start of this post... the "conflict" that you imagined happening between us is irrelevant because neither of us had correct reads. The only part of that which might be relevant to improvement is how to to convince the town of your opinions when you *are* correct. We can talk about that all day, but talking about our "feelings" and how someone may have "been bullied" doesn't help anyone.
If your argument holds merit, you do not need to...... SVENGALI (green, because town can also maliciously manipulate others in order to get their point across, example = fake cop claiming) people into agreeing with you. If you can distill your argument to as few words as possible so that the argument doesn't lose it's bite then it will be easier for people to process, it will stick in their minds the way a soundbite does, it saves everyone's time, and makes the thread less complicated. Do those kinds of things instead of making the lynch about your feelings because once you do that, you start losing credibility even if people still think you are town.
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On December 03 2013 13:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 13:28 yamato77 wrote:On December 03 2013 13:26 Aquanim wrote:
ALL? bold words Believe me, everyone could have played better than they did D1. In a majority lynch, every townie on the wagon is responsible for the mislynch. And even the ones not on the wagon, it's their responsibility to both argue down the townie wagon and propose a viable alternative lynch and make it convincing. Everyone. But the mislynch was intentional. Either way, Im curious to hear what you say after the read. I would love some pointers on how to not come across as "changing mind" all the time; whilst, trying to move the thread forward with new ideas/content.
this is a problem I have (maybe had?)
i remember getting lynched in mylo or something similar, and the gist of the case was that I was changing my reads too often and I was all over the place... a giant incoherent mess of a filter. this was maybe a year or so ago.. dont recall...
what i try to do lately.. what I tried doing in this game was stop myself right before I was about to hit the "post" button and ask myself....
"does the rest of the town really need to read this? are there any reasons why they shouldn't read it? are there any reasons why I don't want X to read this (when X is a scum player who is the subject of my post, regardless of whether I am town or scum reading them) will clicking this post button actually help the thread lynch scum?"
people don't need to read your every thought. it may in some cases make you look townie to those people who are good at making stream of consciousness based reads, but there are other ways to look townie and many times it makes you look either A) scummy or B) fickle and stupid
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mocsta so you remember saying you wanted to talk about why you come across as scummy?
On December 03 2013 13:52 yamato77 wrote:
Another suggestion; don't be as cocksure as you appear to be now about every read. Leave some room for doubt. I do it all the time and people don't call me mafia for it. You cannot be sure in this game of interpretation. That way, if you explained your doubts beforehand, it's easier to comprehend why you would have a change of mind later on in regard to the read on the player.
this is a big part of that reason. a lot of your posts have an air of.... it;s hard to describe... maybe assholishness? but that's not the right word because you aren't (i don't think) doing it maliciously. it's like you're making an effort to make your posts funny, or entertaining, or amusing... but many times the jokes are at people's expense.
no that's no right either.
it's things like this:
On November 22 2013 01:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 01:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, don't tell me this isn't a battle of egos. Your confirmation bias is showing. I'm just not happy with the fact that you are throwing a Rayn lynch in my face and not going with someone who has played scummier overall (such as the three people I mentioned before).
This whole Rayn crap is stupid. It should have never been a thing in the first place. You have my full attention Corazon. Please detail my C.B., and why Rayns behaviour from what, 2hrs ago was acceptable.
it's... not really a joke... but there is a sarcastic air to it. if corazon's town then a post like this can only piss him off. you know how corazon reacts when you (specifically you) poke at him. this is something that you and I actually discussed in our telepathic mason chat during the first hours of the game. he might decide you're scum, because why would a townie try to anger and provoke people?
like I said.. these things you're doing aren't overt... it's the tone of your posts. lay back on the sarcasm and useless aggression. i support being aggressive to try and read somebody.. but when there's a slight hint of hostility behind all of your posts it might cause others to question your motives. this is something I used to have a really huge problem with. i still go into "sarcastic aggression" mode every now and then but I'm trying to stop it. I have to make a conscious effort to avoid doing it EVERY time I post. you can tell tht i'm doing this by comparing my posts when the game is slow and my posts when the game is moving quickly... when conversation picks up I forget to not be a dick and that probably ruins my reads because they were reads I formed while "high" off of my own sarcasm
ahhh... that's the exact word I was looking for... sarcastic aggression.
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lol hf i wanted to lynch you for saying
"i will sheep thrawn, except for that one thing that thrawn is doing (lynching rayn) and probably will end up doing"
which basically meant you weren't going to do anything....
somehow I actually forgot you were in the game even after your doc claim, i didn't even mention you in my final reads post. i have no clue what happened there
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EPT
