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On November 23 2013 15:51 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 15:48 Aquanim wrote:
Another question for you Thrawn, the same as for Corazon:
Do you think Rean is scum? If not, convince me. First I want you to explain why you don't care about the Bereft discussion. You asked me once about Bereft's (him/her? I want to use pronouns) defense, I ignored the question, and you found it important enough to ask me again, so why are you doing nothing with my answer and trying to change the conversation?
Because I think Bereft's town and I want to talk about people who I think are scum.
Bereft's attitude to Rayn that there is no value in keeping Rayn in the game regardless of his alignment is pretty much the same as my own opinion of Rayn and played a part in my desire to lynch him.
Saying "I can't see town doing this" is a meaningful way to express your opinion as long as you specify what "this" is, which Bereft did:
On November 22 2013 00:00 Bereft wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn
I think its completely irrational for a townie to bust into the thread the way rayn is doing now flinging shit like an angry bull. there is no reason for him to be behaving this way as town.
And I agree that there was no reason for Rayn to behave that way as town. Even after Rayn has flipped I still don't think he was playing to his win-con. He was deliberately trying to lynch himself a long time before his lynch was completely settled...
I think Bereft not wanting to talk to Rayn is perfectly understandable - Rayn is an unpleasant person to talk to. Bereft did in fact have at least some interactions with Rayn, however. Furthermore, if Bereft was convinced that Rayn was the best lynch what further profit is there in talking to Rayn? Far better to prod other people into voting for Rayn, like so:
On November 22 2013 02:16 Bereft wrote: why do you think its more beneficial to keep a toxic player around who gives the fake intention of martyring (without actually intending to be a martyr) vs an analytical level headed player who's at least giving the impression of being as transparent as possible?
On November 22 2013 11:42 Bereft wrote:
holyflare is there any chance you'd be willing to vote rayn? even if not voting rayn means a no lynch? how about you, scib?
Furthermore, Bereft's made some posts which perfectly echoed my own thoughts at the time; thinking in ways I don't think a scum would think.
On November 22 2013 07:56 Bereft wrote:
I will be shocked -- SHOCKED -- if rayn flips town. but not sorry.
Rean, you caught up on the thread yet? HF, how far along are you?
On November 23 2013 10:34 Bereft wrote:
@Cora - neither. the 1-2 people on the rayn train are holyflare and MAYBE aqua.
naturally I find the afkers suspicious, esp onegu and rean, but I haven't had a chance to reread filters. probably won't have a chance to go through them till later tonight or tomorrow though.
aqua is actually coming off as fairly town to me right now, but I suspect that while maybe 2 scum are in the obviously sketchy lurker group, 1 is hiding in plain sight among my proactive, townie reads. the town read I plan to reevaluate is aqua.
(Obviously I don't plan to reevaluate myself but my current working theory is 2 sketchy lurkers and one proactive player.)
And finally, gut says Bereft's town. Your turn, what don't you like about lynching Rean?
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And if you're wondering why I didn't comment on Bereft earlier, it's because I wanted to see the opinions of some lurkers before showing mine - but what the hell.
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On November 23 2013 16:13 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 23:09 Aquanim wrote:On November 22 2013 22:32 Onegu wrote:On November 22 2013 11:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
OMG RAYN IM STICKING MY NECK OUT FOR YOU AND YOU ARE GONNA MARTYR
FUCK YOU MAN JUST FUCK YOU Also rayns martyr is the correct play in majority lynch, he knows his flip is valuable for info. His flip proved alot of stuff. Like most likely all scum was on his wagon. He gives credibility to his reads. @Onegu I have two questions. 1) Why do you think all of the scum would be on Rayn's wagon? What motive does the scumteam have for pushing Rayn's lynch so hard? 2) Could you comment on what about Rayn's reads you find persuasive? 1) I am feeling at least 2 as they dont want a no lynch on rayn to happen, yes rayn is controversal and he takes over the thread, but a town rayn will figure things out and push his reads to death. Rayns vote being so close is why I say that. 2) Ill make my own cases in a moment, disagree with his JJD read though.
I think that scum definitely wouldn't mind a no-lynch over lynching Rayn. Rayn shits up town atmosphere something chronic. Take a look sometime at how many games where rayn was killed N1 town won, and how many games where he was killed much later scum won. It's educational.
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On November 23 2013 16:17 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 16:13 Onegu wrote:On November 22 2013 23:09 Aquanim wrote:On November 22 2013 22:32 Onegu wrote:On November 22 2013 11:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
OMG RAYN IM STICKING MY NECK OUT FOR YOU AND YOU ARE GONNA MARTYR
FUCK YOU MAN JUST FUCK YOU Also rayns martyr is the correct play in majority lynch, he knows his flip is valuable for info. His flip proved alot of stuff. Like most likely all scum was on his wagon. He gives credibility to his reads. @Onegu I have two questions. 1) Why do you think all of the scum would be on Rayn's wagon? What motive does the scumteam have for pushing Rayn's lynch so hard? 2) Could you comment on what about Rayn's reads you find persuasive? 1) I am feeling at least 2 as they dont want a no lynch on rayn to happen, yes rayn is controversal and he takes over the thread, but a town rayn will figure things out and push his reads to death. Rayns vote being so close is why I say that. 2) Ill make my own cases in a moment, disagree with his JJD read though. I think that scum definitely wouldn't mind a no-lynch over lynching Rayn. Rayn shits up town atmosphere something chronic. Take a look sometime at how many games where rayn was killed N1 town won, and how many games where he was killed much later scum won. It's educational.
In fact, the only way I can see scum sticking out their necks a long way to lynch Rayn is to save Rean, who was looking very likely to be the lynch otherwise.
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On November 23 2013 16:23 Onegu wrote:
Also when are people going to realize this is a game of logic not emotion, rayn never personally attacks people, he only attacks thier gameplay. I have a problem when people are attacked with personal assults that have nothing to do with the game rayn never does this. Rayn forces his reads down your throat, and when he is throwning reads everywhere and changeing them constantly its difficult to follow, but when he tunnels onto someone most of the time he is right. And in this game say what you want rayn was playing the game and wanting to policy lynch him for it dumb. Mocsta you habe played multiple games with him why all of a sudden do you want to policy lynch him this game?
Okay now you're just wrong. Rayn was deliberately trying to get himself lynched this game to prove that we couldn't read him, which is a bloody stupid way to play. I've seen him relentlessly tunnel many townies. And as for not personally attacking people:
On November 22 2013 11:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i am not a whiny little girl when i am accused of being scum.
On November 22 2013 11:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
he's just hrowing shit at me for no reason. there is no reason to do so if he is town.
when i flip he'll act "angry" and "FUCK YOURAYN WHY DID YOU DO SO".
t_T
you're a sad person aquanim
In any case this is no longer relevant to today's lynch so can we drop it?
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On November 23 2013 16:58 thrawn2112 wrote:Aqua, Rean is town. I just finished rereading his filter, paying close attention to the parts where he is being pressured. Much of it reads as extremely genuine. Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 11:52 Rean wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 02:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No actually this is the best way to go:
##Unvote:
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
This proves Mocsta and Bereft are scum. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade.
I'll make a case on the third one near deadline. I gotta go move my little brother now. cya later. God your annoying... I asked the question because I am in a headspace where I can look at you without emotion. I am trying to figure out the motives for your continued trolling since your "confrontation" vote. Considering a majority hasn't been reached & people reading (Onegu/jampi) haven't voted - you are not under a *great* deal of pressure. As town, under thread of a mislynch: I would expect you to pull the finger out and start producing cases. You already said you don't want me dead; yet keep going out of your way to antagonise me. Unless you think I am scum, I don't see how your actions can line up with a town mentality.
Small tidbit, whilst looking for Rayn in the TL db to check mislynch history, i saw Rean: Insane Mafia 2 Town Police Tough Guy Killed Night 2 TL Mafia XXXVIII Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 3 Sleeper Cell Mafia Mafia Sleeper Agent Modkilled Day 1 Pick Their Power Mafia Town Psychic Survived I know Sleepcell is from 2011 but check teh filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416&user=Rean&view=allHe has like 2 posts, but they are SO aggressive. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186&user=Rean&view=allIn Pick Their Poewr he is quite casual and short posts. Rean gameplay doesnt really fit into either of those filters + its from 2011 and things change. BUT, what i do think is that it shows quite clearly his mentality when scum. Hesistant to talk, and high-strung/angry. I think Rean is probably town. Sorry everyone for not participating at all today but my head is fucking killing me atm and trying to read the thread isnt working at all ._. made it to page 41 so far and gonna stop for today because i just cant focus at all, but wanted to comment on mocsta mentioning old games: I cant remember why but I know I was so frustrated from RL issues during the sleeper cell game that I didnt focus on it at all and the few posts I made were total shit. I got modkilled for lack of voting and banned for it and I totally deserved it and sat out the bans. You probably shouldn't be using it for meta purposes. going to sleep now, hopefully i'll feel better tomorrow. I don't know why a scum player would post this. What would scum rean be trying to accomplish here? The rayn mislynch, or no-lynch, both of which suit scum's purposes, was progressing along just fine. Why wouldn't he sit back and post nothing? Entering the thread with an excuse post with 8 minutes left until a very controversial lynch can only possibly get everyone's attention. People were desperately looking to either find more rayn voters or to find an alternate target. Rean was already well on track to being lynched earlier... surely he would have known not make that post.
Suppose Rean is a scum player with a headache. (I reckon playing scum would give me a headache.) If he'd posted absolutely nothing in that time period he'd look awful now - he'd have completely dodged all discussion about the Rayn lynch, whereas now he at least has an excuse for not having argued one way or another there.
I don't think that he took much of a risk of getting lynched by posting that - that post may attract some attention to him but it hardly makes him look so instantly scummy that he's liable to go from 0 to 7 votes in less than 10 minutes.
The replies he makes when he's pressured by Rayn don't look scummy as such to me, but I don't see anything particularly genuine about them myself either. If you can explain this further I might understand better.
I just can't get past the fact that so very, very little of Rean's filter is him contributing on his own initiative - he's had to be prodded for almost everything he's said all game, and I don't see any insights or evidence of serious analytical thought in the answers he has provided. If he's town I am hoping my vote on him will incite him to perform better in this regard.
I agree with you that Jampidampi's contributions this game have been entirely underwhelming. If the Rean wagon doesn't fly I'm willing to join you on Jampidampi. For the moment though I'm happier where I am.
Also, I'm concerned that if we lynch Jampidampi and he flips town we will have learned almost nothing (hell we won't learn much if he flips scum), whereas if Rean flips town we will at least learn what alignment one of the main wagons of D1 was directed at. This extends to even discussion of their lynches - there's honestly not much to talk about re. a Jampi lynch.
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EBWOP: I think a scum Rean would feel guilty and exposed if he didn't even give an excuse for why he wasn't discussing the Rayn lynch.
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On November 23 2013 17:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 17:23 Aquanim wrote:On November 23 2013 16:58 thrawn2112 wrote:Aqua, Rean is town. I just finished rereading his filter, paying close attention to the parts where he is being pressured. Much of it reads as extremely genuine. On November 22 2013 11:52 Rean wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 02:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No actually this is the best way to go:
##Unvote:
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
This proves Mocsta and Bereft are scum. 2 scum for 1 town is a good trade.
I'll make a case on the third one near deadline. I gotta go move my little brother now. cya later. God your annoying... I asked the question because I am in a headspace where I can look at you without emotion. I am trying to figure out the motives for your continued trolling since your "confrontation" vote. Considering a majority hasn't been reached & people reading (Onegu/jampi) haven't voted - you are not under a *great* deal of pressure. As town, under thread of a mislynch: I would expect you to pull the finger out and start producing cases. You already said you don't want me dead; yet keep going out of your way to antagonise me. Unless you think I am scum, I don't see how your actions can line up with a town mentality.
Small tidbit, whilst looking for Rayn in the TL db to check mislynch history, i saw Rean: Insane Mafia 2 Town Police Tough Guy Killed Night 2 TL Mafia XXXVIII Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 3 Sleeper Cell Mafia Mafia Sleeper Agent Modkilled Day 1 Pick Their Power Mafia Town Psychic Survived I know Sleepcell is from 2011 but check teh filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416&user=Rean&view=allHe has like 2 posts, but they are SO aggressive. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186&user=Rean&view=allIn Pick Their Poewr he is quite casual and short posts. Rean gameplay doesnt really fit into either of those filters + its from 2011 and things change. BUT, what i do think is that it shows quite clearly his mentality when scum. Hesistant to talk, and high-strung/angry. I think Rean is probably town. Sorry everyone for not participating at all today but my head is fucking killing me atm and trying to read the thread isnt working at all ._. made it to page 41 so far and gonna stop for today because i just cant focus at all, but wanted to comment on mocsta mentioning old games: I cant remember why but I know I was so frustrated from RL issues during the sleeper cell game that I didnt focus on it at all and the few posts I made were total shit. I got modkilled for lack of voting and banned for it and I totally deserved it and sat out the bans. You probably shouldn't be using it for meta purposes. going to sleep now, hopefully i'll feel better tomorrow. I don't know why a scum player would post this. What would scum rean be trying to accomplish here? The rayn mislynch, or no-lynch, both of which suit scum's purposes, was progressing along just fine. Why wouldn't he sit back and post nothing? Entering the thread with an excuse post with 8 minutes left until a very controversial lynch can only possibly get everyone's attention. People were desperately looking to either find more rayn voters or to find an alternate target. Rean was already well on track to being lynched earlier... surely he would have known not make that post. Suppose Rean is a scum player with a headache. (I reckon playing scum would give me a headache.) If he'd posted absolutely nothing in that time period he'd look awful now - he'd have completely dodged all discussion about the Rayn lynch, whereas now he at least has an excuse for not having argued one way or another there. I don't think that he took much of a risk of getting lynched by posting that - that post may attract some attention to him but it hardly makes him look so instantly scummy that he's liable to go from 0 to 7 votes in less than 10 minutes. The replies he makes when he's pressured by Rayn don't look scummy as such to me, but I don't see anything particularly genuine about them myself either. If you can explain this further I might understand better. I just can't get past the fact that so very, very little of Rean's filter is him contributing on his own initiative - he's had to be prodded for almost everything he's said all game, and I don't see any insights or evidence of serious analytical thought in the answers he has provided. If he's town I am hoping my vote on him will incite him to perform better in this regard. I agree with you that Jampidampi's contributions this game have been entirely underwhelming. If the Rean wagon doesn't fly I'm willing to join you on Jampidampi. For the moment though I'm happier where I am. Also, I'm concerned that if we lynch Jampidampi and he flips town we will have learned almost nothing (hell we won't learn much if he flips scum), whereas if Rean flips town we will at least learn what alignment one of the main wagons of D1 was directed at. This extends to even discussion of their lynches - there's honestly not much to talk about re. a Jampi lynch. In the above, I am reading a lot about poor play. - Provides an excuse to not join an important discussion - Doesn't "feel" genuine - Doesn't contribute on his own initiative What I am not reading is why any of this is scum-motive indicative. Townies have always been guilty for poor play, and plenty of townies will not contribute until asked/pressured. 80/20 rule stands tall. I must say that this response is *very* underwhelming. This is exacerbated due to you replying in order to reason why REan is scummy. Your objective was not achieved - not even remotely. You are out of my "The Good" bracket Aquanim.
"Plenty of townies will not contribute until asked/pressured". Fine. If Rean is town what do you think I'm doing currently?
I was explaining to Thrawn why providing the excuse wasn't a townie thing to do either (do you contest this?). The feeling genuine or not was Thrawn's point, not mine. Not contributing on one's own initiative can't be town-motivated, since a townie would be trying to get more information out of the thread and improve his reads. Therefore it's likely scum-motivated.
I agree with you that Rean could be a townie playing poorly. I don't think it's the most likely explanation since I've seen many scum not contribute to the thread much on their own initiative, and fewer town. If he's town then hopefully my criticism of his town play will prompt him to do better (rather than just yelling at me over it, which I have a vain hope he won't do as a townie). If he's scum then hopefully my case and whatever response he makes to it will convince you that he is so we can lynch him.
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On November 23 2013 17:58 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 17:23 Aquanim wrote:
Suppose Rean is a scum player with a headache. (I reckon playing scum would give me a headache.) If he'd posted absolutely nothing in that time period he'd look awful now - he'd have completely dodged all discussion about the Rayn lynch, whereas now he at least has an excuse for not having argued one way or another there.
I don't think that he took much of a risk of getting lynched by posting that - that post may attract some attention to him but it hardly makes him look so instantly scummy that he's liable to go from 0 to 7 votes in less than 10 minutes.
The replies he makes when he's pressured by Rayn don't look scummy as such to me, but I don't see anything particularly genuine about them myself either. If you can explain this further I might understand better.
I just can't get past the fact that so very, very little of Rean's filter is him contributing on his own initiative - he's had to be prodded for almost everything he's said all game, and I don't see any insights or evidence of serious analytical thought in the answers he has provided. If he's town I am hoping my vote on him will incite him to perform better in this regard.
I agree with you that Jampidampi's contributions this game have been entirely underwhelming. If the Rean wagon doesn't fly I'm willing to join you on Jampidampi. For the moment though I'm happier where I am.
Also, I'm concerned that if we lynch Jampidampi and he flips town we will have learned almost nothing (hell we won't learn much if he flips scum), whereas if Rean flips town we will at least learn what alignment one of the main wagons of D1 was directed at. This extends to even discussion of their lynches - there's honestly not much to talk about re. a Jampi lynch. Aqua I think rayn was right about you. Sometime during N1 I started thinking that your posts sound extremely fake and this post looks like the most fake of all of them. I've highlighted all the parts that seem contrived. The last paragraph doesn't make any sense. We are at the very beginning of the cycle.. why wouldn't a jampi lynch tell us anything? There is still more than 40 hours to talk about him. There is a lot we can talk about in regards to a jampi lynch. For starters, I would like you to give your read on him, rather than by agreeing you will consolidate if needed, because that is something that most people will say about most lynches. What is your read on jampi?
Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +His contributions have been decidedly lacklustre so far. He's been harping on about that single post of mine as pretty much his entire scumhunting content. The question I'm having difficulty answering is "Is this all Jampidampi is capable of as town?". If this was, say, Mocsta I'd lynch them out of hand, but this is kind of believable from a town Jampidampi. It's difficult for me to determine from my perspective whether he could reasonably believe I haven't answered his point about that post already. I'd appreciate anyone with an outside view weighing in with their perspective on this. For the record his argument is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582¤tpage=34#676to which my reply is: How is observing that a player hasn't answered a question scummy? You can claim that my motivation was to "throw dirt on" Jampidampi, but that's only a single possible explanation for that post. Another one (and the correct one) is that I thought Jampidampi needed more incentive to answer the question and to offer more constructive opinions. I think I mentioned at some point during day 1 that this kind of paranoia about people "throwing dirt on me, oh teh noes" is somewhat more characteristic of town than scum. That does not, however, mean that I think a scum player *couldn't* pretend to be paranoid in that way. The fact of the matter is that Jampidampi's kept repeating that single, crappy point about me while largely ignoring the rest of my filter and saying as little as possible about anything else in the thread. If he's town I hope he picks up his play, otherwise we may just have to lynch him and pray he's not playing this badly as a townie. Conclusion: I'm not immediately eager to lynch Jampidampi (again the lynchbait argument), but if he continues to pass up on opportunities to contribute then my mind will change. There's only so much failure to contribute that I will tolerate.
In short, Jampidampi's been useless, not adressed the rayn thing, sat on his vote on me, etc, I agree, but the one game of Jampidampi's I've seen (Newbie 34) he was similarly useless as town and got lynched for it. Therefore I don't have a high degree of confidence in determining Jampi's alignment either way.
On the other hand, in TL Mafia 38 Rean was significantly more aggressive and free with his opinions than in this game. (link)
I don't see anything meaningful I can say to your allegations of "contrived" rather than "I'm town". I have a wide vocabulary and sometimes I abuse it with flowery speech, if that's what you're getting at.
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EBWOP: I don't see anything meaningful I can say to your allegations of "contrived" other than "I'm town". I have a wide vocabulary and sometimes I abuse it with flowery speech, if that's what you're getting at.
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On November 23 2013 18:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
...
That explanation reminded me of the explanation Aquanim gave at the very beginning of the game when I first accused him of not scumhunting. It's too clean, too "townie," too much what "I want to hear" from a town player.
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So you think I might be scum because my motives are too much like what you think a townie's motives should be?
That says a hell of a lot about this forum.
Look, I'm sick of this. My defence of my play IS my play. If you look at my posts and you seriously think that I am not a townie playing to my wincondition as best I can, then lynch me. Otherwise, get out of my face and let me do my thing to catch scum.
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On November 23 2013 19:08 Bereft wrote:Aqua, you shouldn't get mad, you should get flattered! the only reason you're on my "town I ought to reevaluate" list is because from your analysis, articulation, phrasing, etc, i think you're smart and highly capable of being scum while coming off as pro-town. and I guess this post (I really don't like this post): Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 14:10 Aquanim wrote:On November 22 2013 14:02 cDgCorazon wrote:On November 22 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote:On November 22 2013 13:49 cDgCorazon wrote:
TBH Thrawn looks like your second head or something Moc. All I see from him are town reads on you and +1 on everything that you write. I wish he would branch out and do some of his own reads or else I would like to look at him some more.
Fair comment on being a "hydra" ummm, Thrawn did that last cycle. It was the trigger for Rayns meltdown. One of the key things he found was a read on LoneMeow/HolyFlare which ties in with how HolyFlare has come into this game. On November 21 2013 18:26 thrawn2112 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 21:41 LoneMeow wrote:
I could agree about cDgCorazon being scum. His filter has a ton of filler-like stuff, practically the only player he seems to have anything to talk about is sciberbia and even that is kind of non-commital, he's more or less hinting that sciberbia is scummy but never actually making it a real case. The part about town reads not being useful was just plain weird.
On the other hand, sciberbia's massive tunnel so early in the game is pretty weird and I really don't think they're both scum.
"I agree about Cor being scum" or even "I kinda agree" is how town people talk. "I could agree" is how scum people talk. "Could agree" as in "if I were actually able to have an opinion but I can't because I'm scum." When they phrase things like this you are hearing their inner monologue trying to figure out what their reads would be if they didn't already know alignments. LM is also scum for townreading Aqua at a time when the average townie should have been at least a little suspicious of Aqua. My only problem writing LM off as scum is that he's barely posted. JampiDampi isn't posting either and I don't like how he was so quick to agree that my Aqua case was good and then he immediately stopped looking for mafia. I remember a post about looking for replacements so if this is him then I don't know how important that last point I made is and this might apply to LM if he's the one who's dropping out. Hopefully this won't be a problem after D1. Picking one out of those two to be scum.. I'll go with LM. I just filtered scib real quick and he's ok. My gut says Bereft is town but at some point I'd like to do some 1v1 questioning. Onegu remains an enigma but my gut has more and more been leaning towards town. I was rereading rayn (sorry moc haven't finished up to the stuff you mentioned) and I came across this exchange On November 21 2013 02:21 Mocsta wrote:
Are Rean and Aquanim bussing? On November 21 2013 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:I don't know and i don't care. They both look individually bad to me. I'll reconsider when i see flips. I am not looking into connections now. Everyone has made good posts and those people have made bad posts in my opinion. I do not think Aquanim's reasons for voting for Rean are strong, i don't even know if he thinks he is scum as this is what he says: Show nested quote +For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. Shouldn't he be voting for Cora instead? A question like what mocsta asked is exactly the kind of unimportant and tiresome thing that town rayn both would strongly care about and also be able to provide several filter pages of spam talking about. Town rayn would never pass up the chance to indulge a question such as Mocsta asked. Town rayn cares deeply about every minute aspect of every angle of every possible theory and he can't stand not having an opinion about such things. I need to reread Corazon, I previously thought he was pretty townie but Mocsta seems to disagree. I am loathe to do it because I don't want to reread those opening cor/scib arguments again and I also think that town Corazon has a very scummy way of talking, arguing, and just the general way he organizes and presents his thought process. I will do this later. Does it not concern you that he could be buddying you too hard? You've done that tactic to me before (was it Bluelightz? or 37?) and it bit me in the ass. I would like thrawn to have a lot more thread presence going forward. I hope you can agree with that Moc. I'm inclined to think that after pushing my wagon hard at the start of the day and being a pretty strong townread for most people it's entirely understandable that a town Thrawn would decide to step back a little. If one apes the spotlight for the entire day then that doesn't give you as much opportunity to learn about other people. I agree that if he does not maintain a high thread presence going forward I will be reassessing Thrawn. what was the point behind this? it comes off as fluff. or is it meant to be a soft defense of thrawn with the caveat that he needs more activity? that being said, i think Aqua would be a horrible lynch for today given the other candidates out there. unless he shoots himself in the foot / something in the thread drastically changes, i can pretty safely say i won't be voting for him today.
I think that that post accurately expressed my opinion of Thrawn at a time when he was being discussed. I thought it would be a good idea to expose my thought process re. Thrawn since I hadn't spoken about him in some time. At the same time, since I think that Thrawn's town I didn't think that further disucssion of a point against him which I believed was flawed (namely that his decreased thread presence was significantly scummy) would be productive, and so I argued against it.
+ Show Spoiler +
I mean, if Thrawn suddenly drops off the map with no explanation that'll be a problem as I expressed in the last sentence. But I don't think there's any risk of that, and it's not particularly useful to theorise about that possibility at this point.
I agree that that post is more fluffy and less useful than a lot I've made. They can't all be perfect. I still think it accomplished its purpose though.
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@Sciberbia:
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Rean and jamp literally have not posted more than once in like 2 days I think. Between the two I think what there is of Rean's filter is significantly scummier, and depending on what he does (or doesn't do) today he could very realistically be the best lynch.
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I obviously don't disagree with you, but what are your reasons for thinking Rean is a better lynch than Jampidampi? I'm aware they may at least partially overlap with mine but I'd like to hear you express them in your own words.
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On November 24 2013 07:28 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 07:25 Bereft wrote:
really? i must have missed it so can you quote the post?
you were debating before whether scum would rather have rayn alive or dead. what did you conclude and how does conclusion tie in with your reads? i was under the impression you thought they would like to keep him alive so they would almost all be off the rayn train.
do you really think JJD is scum or are you just pissed off with him?
i take it currently your scum reads are HF, onegu, and...? if the scum team is HF, onegu, and X, why would they hold back their NK and be confident enough of a mislynch as you stated earlier? onegu is 1 of the front runners for d2 lynch and HF for d3 (in my head at least). To be honest I don't really care about what I said. People are going to find a way to twist it to look scummy. I don't like a post from JJD but I don't think he's scum but I do think he's scum but I'm not going to vote for him and now I'm just rambling on and shitting up the thread and I don't really care and I don't really care and this person is scummy and this is what is going on in my head and i think im so important that i should share every thought i have and i can wish-wash and call people scummy yet not think they are scum and not vote for them and basically waste our time with useless bullshit and tire me out because i just want to play but i get called scum every-other post that i make and scum try to pick on me andandnandandnandnandandnandnandnandnandandnandnandnandnandandn
@Corazon
Look, I understand where you're coming from. I've been getting a lot of nitpicking questions this game and I'm getting bloody sick of it too.
That being said... please, PLEASE stop doing this. Flying off the handle and getting angry at JJD and whoever else:
- Is not going to change their opinion
- Does not help me determine your alignment
- Does not help me determine anybody else's alignment
I lack the ability to tell whether these posts of yours are faked anger as scum, legitimate anger as a townie, or even legitimate anger as scum. Therefore they are not useful to me.
Take a walk if you have to, cool off a bit. Straight-up ignore accusations you regard as ridiculous if you have to. But please, if you're town, work on convincing me and other townies that your scum reads are correct rather than doing this.
A question for Corazon:
AFAIK you currently believe Onegu is scum. What do you think of his case on Bereft? In terms of how it reflects on him, though I'd like your thoughts on whether he's raised convincing points against Bereft too.
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On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case?
I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant.
Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive.
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On November 24 2013 08:47 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 08:45 Mocsta wrote:On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case? I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant. Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive. I really want to know if Corazon has a different PoV to you. Can you please convince him to respond. I'm not chasing any scum slips - I promise Corazon. Bullshit
uh... pretty pretty please with a cherry on top, Corazon?
+ Show Spoiler +
Seriously though, I think Mocsta's asked a reasonable question and given you an opportunity to contribute, as opposed to just baiting you out. Getting angrier won't solve the impasse we're currently at.
If you need to take a break for a while, go and do it. I've found it's helped me in similar situations in the past (this game and others).
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@Mocsta: Can you go on and make your point about Sciberbia's reply without Corazon's input? I'm curious to see what it is.
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On November 24 2013 09:12 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 08:38 Aquanim wrote:On November 24 2013 08:21 Mocsta wrote:
Aquanim
What do you think of Scibs response to Onegu regarding that Bereft case? I think he raises fair points about the Bereft case. I would have worded them quite differently, but that's unimportant. Sciberbia didn't touch on every point, which honestly makes me feel better about him - he adressed the ones he thought were important and therefore made a judgement about which were important. I'm inclined to agree with his judgement. Points he didn't talk about, like "tunnels Rayn but is OK to vote Cora now", the Venn diagram, and some other miscellaneous posts, were in fact more peripheral to Onegu's case and generally far less conclusive. I disagree - that it makes me feel better about him. I'm concerned. So heres context for question 2. - Scibs from late Day1 has Onegu as his best scum read. Do you think Scibs was addressing Onegu's case as if he was talking to a top scum read?
I think Sciberbia's post here is saying he prefers a Jampi or Rean lynch over Onegu. That being said, your question of "Is Sciberbia adressing Onegu like a scum read?" still holds.
In my opinion, Sciberbia is adressing Onegu in a reasonable tone and without accusing/insiniuating that Onegu is scum, with the purpose of drawing Onegu into discussion and exposing Onegu's thought process so that Sciberbia can try to determine whether said thought process is that of a town Onegu or not.
Especially early in the day I think it's more important to try to draw out more information than to be directly pushing a lynch. I also think that Onegu will respond better to reasonable questioning such as Sciberbia has done than to direct pressure, and I think Sciberbia has correctly identified this.
+ Show Spoiler +On the other hand, my impression of Rean from this game is that he isn't going to contribute much of anything without direct pressure. Furthermore, I doubt that if I was to try to speak reasonably to Rean he would reply reasonably, given that presumably I'm still his alleged top scumread. If somebody else who Rean has no reason/excuse to just shout back at would like to speak with him on more reasonable terms, I would appreciate that.
tl;dr I think Sciberbia's approach to drawing Onegu into discussion is entirely consistent with a town mindset.
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On November 24 2013 09:31 Mocsta wrote:I didn't think it would take 13minutes for a response.
It didn't but then I closed the tab by accident :/
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EPT
