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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote: sihh you huysbare playing like rayn. looking too much into words spoken and go.... oohh scum slip scum slip. thats stupid play.. townies say incorrect things all the time need to start looking into motive. anyone reading the thread from page 27 onwards should have known with crystal clear clarity that rayn was the elephant in the room that needed too be discussed. avoiding this discussion is scummy, especially because he is green in hindsight. giving weak beans reasons that he istown, and presenting a counter and then disappearing is also weak beans. all that is doing is satisfying the checklist of what to do near a lynch. conviction people. I expect the night kill to be myself or thrawn, probably thrawn since some of you are starting to question me. if I die, please read over my posts carefully. my confirmed flip DOES NOT make my reads right, but at least guarantees my intent is there. people like onegu, holy, rwan are the best flips for day2. I would go with holyflare personally as he has the best chance to convince you guys he is town but for all the wrong reasons, cheers guys, I have enjoyed playing this game and don't regret lynching rayn. I feel it was a byproduct of having a majority lynch setup but we can save thiabdiscussion for post game. if I'm alive, I will be out for maybe the first 24hrs. sorry, but real life is real life. good lcuk in case you die look at JJD and bereft real quick. just indulge me, please | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I don't know you're talking about. I'm trying to get his opinion on something. If you think that we are both town and I'm doing something anti town then let me know exactly what it is and why it's bad so I can stop. If you think one or both of us is scum then you should tell the thread. If this has nothing to do with any of that, and it's about you and mocsta not getting along then please stop. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
By my placing of the first vote, I hope I have everyone's attention. I want to use this opportunity to tell everyone to go read my massive spoilered collection of bereft D1 quotes. Bereft hardly ever describes why rayn is mafia, most of the justifications for the rayn lynch are policy reasons or "I can't see town doing this" which is an equally bad justification. Please go read everything I wrote and quoted in that spoiler. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 15:24 Mocsta wrote: Please let the man build his case on me + bereft before trying to lay down pressure. Im very curious to see the goods on Bereft. Please join me with jampidampi. Tell me why you think Bereft is town. What has Bereft done since the lynch? Nothing besides defending policy lynching and 4 posts after that which do nothing to further the scumhunt... everything Berefft has posted so far has been a response to someone. There is no effort to find scum or explain scum reads. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
Most of it reaffirms the points I brought up. The rest of it is along the lines of "in hindsight I should have done this" which is not any kind of explanation at all. Anyone can tell you what they should have done in hindsight to avoid telling you why they did what they did. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 15:48 Aquanim wrote: Another question for you Thrawn, the same as for Corazon: Do you think Rean is scum? If not, convince me. First I want you to explain why you don't care about the Bereft discussion. You asked me once about Bereft's (him/her? I want to use pronouns) defense, I ignored the question, and you found it important enough to ask me again, so why are you doing nothing with my answer and trying to change the conversation? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
##vote: jampidampi The game starts out with me making a case against Aqua. Jampi doesn't address this case, and it was the biggest thing happening in the thread. I force him to talk about it, and his response is that he agrees with my case, and puts his vote down on Aqua where it remained for the rest of the cycle. When rayn flew off the handle, jampi did not put effort into trying to figure out rayn's alignment and he did not put effort into explaining his take on the situation. He never once gave his read on rayn after rayn became an issue. The pattern is that jampi avoids the controversial issues, and he hid behind his aqua tunnel for all of D1. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 22 2013 11:52 Rean wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2013 02:37 Mocsta wrote: God your annoying... I asked the question because I am in a headspace where I can look at you without emotion. I am trying to figure out the motives for your continued trolling since your "confrontation" vote. Considering a majority hasn't been reached & people reading (Onegu/jampi) haven't voted - you are not under a *great* deal of pressure. As town, under thread of a mislynch: I would expect you to pull the finger out and start producing cases. You already said you don't want me dead; yet keep going out of your way to antagonise me. Unless you think I am scum, I don't see how your actions can line up with a town mentality. Small tidbit, whilst looking for Rayn in the TL db to check mislynch history, i saw Rean: Insane Mafia 2 Town Police Tough Guy Killed Night 2 TL Mafia XXXVIII Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 3 Sleeper Cell Mafia Mafia Sleeper Agent Modkilled Day 1 Pick Their Power Mafia Town Psychic Survived I know Sleepcell is from 2011 but check teh filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416&user=Rean&view=all He has like 2 posts, but they are SO aggressive. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227186&user=Rean&view=all In Pick Their Poewr he is quite casual and short posts. Rean gameplay doesnt really fit into either of those filters + its from 2011 and things change. BUT, what i do think is that it shows quite clearly his mentality when scum. Hesistant to talk, and high-strung/angry. I think Rean is probably town. Sorry everyone for not participating at all today but my head is fucking killing me atm and trying to read the thread isnt working at all ._. made it to page 41 so far and gonna stop for today because i just cant focus at all, but wanted to comment on mocsta mentioning old games: I cant remember why but I know I was so frustrated from RL issues during the sleeper cell game that I didnt focus on it at all and the few posts I made were total shit. I got modkilled for lack of voting and banned for it and I totally deserved it and sat out the bans. You probably shouldn't be using it for meta purposes. going to sleep now, hopefully i'll feel better tomorrow. I don't know why a scum player would post this. What would scum rean be trying to accomplish here? The rayn mislynch, or no-lynch, both of which suit scum's purposes, was progressing along just fine. Why wouldn't he sit back and post nothing? Entering the thread with an excuse post with 8 minutes left until a very controversial lynch can only possibly get everyone's attention. People were desperately looking to either find more rayn voters or to find an alternate target. Rean was already well on track to being lynched earlier... surely he would have known not make that post. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 17:23 Aquanim wrote: Suppose Rean is a scum player with a headache. (I reckon playing scum would give me a headache.) If he'd posted absolutely nothing in that time period he'd look awful now - he'd have completely dodged all discussion about the Rayn lynch, whereas now he at least has an excuse for not having argued one way or another there. I don't think that he took much of a risk of getting lynched by posting that - that post may attract some attention to him but it hardly makes him look so instantly scummy that he's liable to go from 0 to 7 votes in less than 10 minutes. The replies he makes when he's pressured by Rayn don't look scummy as such to me, but I don't see anything particularly genuine about them myself either. If you can explain this further I might understand better. I just can't get past the fact that so very, very little of Rean's filter is him contributing on his own initiative - he's had to be prodded for almost everything he's said all game, and I don't see any insights or evidence of serious analytical thought in the answers he has provided. If he's town I am hoping my vote on him will incite him to perform better in this regard. I agree with you that Jampidampi's contributions this game have been entirely underwhelming. If the Rean wagon doesn't fly I'm willing to join you on Jampidampi. For the moment though I'm happier where I am. Also, I'm concerned that if we lynch Jampidampi and he flips town we will have learned almost nothing (hell we won't learn much if he flips scum), whereas if Rean flips town we will at least learn what alignment one of the main wagons of D1 was directed at. This extends to even discussion of their lynches - there's honestly not much to talk about re. a Jampi lynch. Aqua I think rayn was right about you. Sometime during N1 I started thinking that your posts sound extremely fake and this post looks like the most fake of all of them. I've highlighted all the parts that seem contrived. The last paragraph doesn't make any sense. We are at the very beginning of the cycle.. why wouldn't a jampi lynch tell us anything? There is still more than 40 hours to talk about him. There is a lot we can talk about in regards to a jampi lynch. For starters, I would like you to give your read on him, rather than by agreeing you will consolidate if needed, because that is something that most people will say about most lynches. What is your read on jampi? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I would rather the scumteam not know who I want to vote just yet. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 16:14 Aquanim wrote: And if you're wondering why I didn't comment on Bereft earlier, it's because I wanted to see the opinions of some lurkers before showing mine - but what the hell. Does this remind anyone of anything? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 18:29 Bereft wrote: no, what is it supposed to remind me of? if Aqua is scum, what's his motivation for taking the time to defend me? obviously if i'm scum the motivation is clear as day. but i know i am town, and say for a moment you accept this as fact too -- what's his motivation then? because i'm genuinely curious. Why not? It gives him something to talk about. Scum love having things to talk about that don't involve pushing mislynches. That explanation reminded me of the explanation Aquanim gave at the very beginning of the game when I first accused him of not scumhunting. It's too clean, too "townie," too much what "I want to hear" from a town player. On November 23 2013 18:11 Bereft wrote:\ thrawn, i specifically wrote that breakdown of my thought process because i'm pretty confident you are town and i don't want you to get derailed on me. i'm not sure how i can break it down further since there are only so many ways i can explain how when your top scum read = your policy lynch, it's a no-brainer. i included that bit about 'in hindsight' only because i'm not so proud to think that even though i was wrong, it was the smart or right lynch. but i do stand with the belief that it was a fair lynch. is it not clear to you from my post history why rayn was my top lynch yesterday? time for some real talk + Show Spoiler [bereft read this if you're town] + I can completely understand why someone in this game would have wanted to policy lynch rayn. I can almost understand someone wanting to policy lynch him even if they thought he was town. The problem is that you referred to it as a policy lynch so often that it is hard for me to figure out if you're town, or scum hiding behind the policy lynch. I did not policy lynch rayn. I am not sure if this makes me better or worse as a player, because it means my "final answer" read was incorrect but at least I did not lynch him for the "wrong" reasons. When you are policy lynching someone you are voting for them for reasons other than you are trying to lynch scum. When you decide to policy lynch, you've already resigned yourself to the fact that the lynch might be a mislynch, but you don't care. Not caring about a mislynch is illogical given a townie's win condition. So why would you do something illogical? Did the player piss you off? Do you hate their playstyle? I am going into the territory of what I told Mocsta in the big spoilered post I made during N1 so I won't repeat myself. I just think it's important to be mindful of the "reasons" for your reasons. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 18:43 Aquanim wrote: So you think I might be scum because my motives are too much like what you think a townie's motives should be? That says a hell of a lot about this forum. Look, I'm sick of this. My defence of my play IS my play. If you look at my posts and you seriously think that I am not a townie playing to my wincondition as best I can, then lynch me. Otherwise, get out of my face and let me do my thing to catch scum. No that is not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that your explanations "seem" townie, but are followed by a very bad aftertaste. And I'm not "in your face," I'm talking to Bereft. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 11:43 Holyflare wrote: I am doctor and I saved thrawn. I completely forgot that this happened.... I don't know what to think about it. He said he claimed because he thought he would be vig'd so he was gonna try to confirm me as town? That..... doesn't make sense? I don't know. I can see this happening if he's a 1 shot doctor but that's not what he claimed. I don't know what to make of this: On November 23 2013 11:53 Holyflare wrote: If i survive you get your doctor for another night, if i die you don't really lose a player Somebody make sure and grill HF on his claim and all else when he gets back. What's most concerning is that his explanation for his claim changed almost every time someone asked him another question about it. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
town mocsta corazon bereft aqua (very confident about all of these except maybe aqua) undecided (not null) rean scib jampi hf scum: onegu jarjar + Show Spoiler [stream of consciousness notes on reads] + -mocsta still town... no further comment -corazon's behavior has been very townie even if it's not in a pro-town way. after he decided to start playing again his posts have been pretty good -i am glad i tunneled bereft because now i have a fairly strong town read as a result. felt like I could see right into his brain while we were chatting -aqua....hmm, aqua. it may be the case that I just have a hard-on for calling him scum. the reason I changed my mind is because he's been active and has not shied away from participating in pretty much every discussion that happens while he's in the thread. he has an opinion on everything and that is townie -jampi would be in the scum group except that I looked at his game history and saw that he gets lynched a lot and can play how he's playing this game. undecided. possibly a good lurker lynch but I dont really feel like lurker lynching -scib. i might call him town but I don't feel strongly enough about that read to do so. i have spent the least time reading his filter compared to the time spent reading everyone else's -hf's claim makes no sense. there are a lot of things i thought was weird about it, that he had me as such a strong town read but earlier was trying to discredit me through my rayn vote. he gave a different explanation every time he was asked about the claim and none of them make sense. however I do not want to act on these suspicions until at least D3 unless I end up thinking he's scum for other reasons before then. actually.... something just occurred to me. why would scum hf claim doctor? to take credit for saving me... but why would he do this? there's no real reason, he wasn't really under enough suspicion to take that gamble. at first I thought "he's gonna try to look town for saving me while withholding a nk." but then when his scumteam takes 2 shots the next day, he would be exposed. that doesn't make sense. maybe town who derp claimed? -rean. rean, rean, oh rean. where are you rean? I have a different impression of his filter every time I read it. I was hoping to come to a conclusion on this read based on his D2 posts....... -onegu. don't like any of the cases he's made. agree with what others (mainly Cor) have said. might vote -jarjar... don't like his posts, and haven't liked them for awhile now ever since I read what rayn said about him. i don't like his focus on cora or how he goes about it and I don't like how much he likes talking about hf's claim. i dont like how he thinks getting hf to post flavor is alignment indicative (almost all hosts provide fake claims) and I don't like that he asked other people to claim to try and confirm hf's story. scum | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 24 2013 11:57 JarJarDrinks wrote: I think multiple docs is unlikely. I'm trying to figure out why cora doesn't buy your claim. What I'm curious about is why you bought HF's claim so easily, and why, if you think he's town, do you insist on outing every single roll to confirm your thoughts about a claim you already accept as true? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I might can do the Onegu thing but I need to reaffirm my position on him. I am much more confident about JarJar for the reasons I posted in the "notes" spoiler and what I said in my last quote. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On November 23 2013 00:15 JarJarDrinks wrote: The fact that you think that rayn was completly wrong w/ all of his reads and gave me AND bereft townreads after the flip is suspicious to me. townie "the thing you did is suspicious" scummy "the thing you did is suspicious to me" Reason? It's forced and fake. "Is suspicious" is more aggressive/confrontational, or townie. When you say something "is suspicious" you are saying that something is suspicious. You are trying to make a point to everyone else in the thread that X person is scummy for X reasons. When you say something "is suspicious to me" you are allowing that maybe it's not that suspicious, but it is to you. It's also forced and fake because it's too many words. When you want to say something there is a natural way of saying it, and natural ways of saying things have a lower word-count than ways of saying things thought up by somebody who is lying. Making an issue over obvious sarcasm is scummy. Corazon I will look into Onegu. Obviously I agree with you but I want to see this through first. | ||
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