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On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again? Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. 4) He has shown little to no original thought 1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1.
You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon.
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On November 21 2013 08:58 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
To be honest Aqua you say that there was "new information" on me which prompted you to change your vote but I think that claim is all smoke and mirrors. You wanted town to waste time arguing about me and not have anyone notice your lack of in-depth analysis and definite reads on anyone in the game. When Rean asked for it, you started attacking him and never answered his request directly even though multiple people thought it was a fair request.
Sure Rean has contradicted himself a few times and the accusations against him are true, I don't think they warrant a full-on case on him and I don't think that he should be lynched for it. You seem to be all about looking like you are scum hunting and jumping on the right wagons and the timing of your changes of reads seem to indicate you are just trying to play for survival, which is what scum like to do.
I can't wait to see your observations of the last ten pages or so and to hear you try to change the lynch subject yet again. I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first. I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors? What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you? My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained. Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so. Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me? I already justified why I didn't vote for sci. My claim is that you jumped on my wagon to give the impression you are scum hunting when you aren't. Look at the timings of the votes and that is proof right there.
Timings of what votes? I didn't vote for you at any point. Which votes, and what exactly do they prove?
Because Rean has been open about his ideas and he is trying to solve the game. He's done more than simply piggyback on people and kick them while they are down. I just don't get a scummy vibe from Rean.
LOLOLOLOL
Have you even read Rean's filter?
Piggybacking on my wagon is EXACTLY what Rean is currently doing. He didn't commit at all to pressuring me, just asked a generic question or two, and then sheeped Thrawn et al. when somebody else made a nice case for him.
Look, I'm open to reason. Show me in what way Rean is trying to solve the game - besides sheeping someone else's case on me - and I'll reassess my read of him.
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On November 21 2013 09:08 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:00 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:51 Rean wrote:On November 21 2013 08:22 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a big problem with that because you should be voting for your top scumread.
What's your case on Rean again? Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. The reason I spent so much time talking about Corazon was because 1) I was being asked about my read on Corazon a lot 2) Rean wasn't in the thread so my vote on him had not yet elicited a response My case on Rean is essentially that: 1) The only thing he's done to try to draw out any information from the thread was to ask me for a scumread, which is a very easy thing for scum to think of and ask. Besides that, he's done nothing useful. 2) His answers to questions were short and didn't explain much, indicating that he didn't want to talk about his reads 3) He asked someone else to pressure me rather than just doing it himself, indicating he doesn't want to take responsibility for pushing people: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still. 4) He has shown little to no original thought 1. Pressuring people trying to lay low doesn't count as useful in your book? 2. You mean the ones that were on the first 2 pages? I already explained earlier, I don't write essays when sentences suffice. 3. I didnt ask anyone to do shit, I made clear that I wanted to put you under pressure. However I didn't wanna distract from the topic being discussed at the time (again, I've said this before) 4. See point 1. You seriously want me to think that you asking ONE boring, generic question is enough scumhunting from you? As far as I can tell, even since my vote you haven't been looking for more information, you're just sheeping onto my wagon. Of course. I definitely didn't attempt to pressure 2 others (scib, already explained why 500 times + LoneMeow who is still lurking it up) while keeping my vote on you. You've done nothing to make me change my mind about you, and while you're still continuing making bullshit arguments to defend yourself I'm trying to find more scum.
As far as I can tell, your entire 'pressure' of sciberbia is calling him out for calling you his second-strongest scumread and then not following that up. Which is a pretty piss-poor excuse for scumhunting on your part. This reads more to me like you being concerned that you're listed as a scumread.
@Rean: Do you seriously think sciberbia is scum? Why or why not?
And calling out LoneMeow for lurking? Please. Calling out lurkers is the easiest game there is. I don't see any actual effort from you here either.
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On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction?
I'm seriously getting tired of answering this question over and over and over again with slightly different introductions. My vote on Corazon would not have pressured him significantly more than he was already, and thus would not have accomplished anything. My vote on Rean did pressure him more (or would have if the thread hadn't jumped on me immediately afterwards).
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On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you. Help me out please: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense) B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind. C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:<To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. + Show Spoiler [justification] +Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me? Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best. I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C.
The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
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EBWOP: I believe that clears up all your questions
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To elaborate further, the "this guy" I was referring to was myself.
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On November 21 2013 09:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:32 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction? I'm seriously getting tired of answering this question over and over and over again with slightly different introductions. My vote on Corazon would not have pressured him significantly more than he was already, and thus would not have accomplished anything. My vote on Rean did pressure him more (or would have if the thread hadn't jumped on me immediately afterwards). I'm sorry i don't buy that. Corazon clearly states he will not vote for anyone but his top scumread at the time, you agree, and then you do not vote for your top scumread.
I agreed with the frusturation he feels at watching people claim to have found the entire scumteam without flipping any of them. I didn't agree with "always vote your top scumread" - though it is typically what I'd choose to do at the end of the day (barring the possibility of a no-lynch), there are other profitable things which may be done with a vote before then.
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On November 21 2013 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:59 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 09:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 09:32 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction? I'm seriously getting tired of answering this question over and over and over again with slightly different introductions. My vote on Corazon would not have pressured him significantly more than he was already, and thus would not have accomplished anything. My vote on Rean did pressure him more (or would have if the thread hadn't jumped on me immediately afterwards). I'm sorry i don't buy that. Corazon clearly states he will not vote for anyone but his top scumread at the time, you agree, and then you do not vote for your top scumread. I agreed with the frusturation he feels at watching people claim to have found the entire scumteam without flipping any of them. I didn't agree with "always vote your top scumread" - though it is typically what I'd choose to do at the end of the day (barring the possibility of a no-lynch), there are other profitable things which may be done with a vote before then. So you agreed with that part. Why is your vote not on Mocsta who claimed he found the scumteam at the start ofthe game? You are talking out of your ass.
I said I didn't like it, not that I thought it was scummy. Remember, I watched Titanic - I saw the number of townies in that game who were so, so certain they'd found the scumteam, and it hurt me inside.
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Yeah, I'm getting to it. I'm reassessing my reads on Corazon and Rean as well, so it's taking some time.
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On November 21 2013 09:41 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:35 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, these votes on me. Jampidampi+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?
It's over there >>>>>
What do you make of it? Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case. ##Vote: AquanimHere's some more evidnce against Aquanim: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted. He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though. On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance. + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora? On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post. @Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more. This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive. @LoneMeow: Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him? Basically, it took me two hours to determine that you weren't coming back and wouldn't elaborate on that point on your own. If you were going to explain yourself without my prompting I wanted to give you that opportunity. Obviously you didn't, and I can't help but notice you haven't answered my question even now. @Jampidampi I'd still like you to answer my question. ReanI already knew when I left to sleep that Rean would be voting for me when I came back. Based on his earlier suspicions of me it's the obvious next step to sheep a case someone has obligingly made for him, regardless of his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:42 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 16:08 Rean wrote:... On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured? To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure. So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why? Probably you. I don't like how easily you swallowed Corazon's case on sciberbia, given that I felt it was sketchy at best. I also don't see any particular purpose behind your posting so far - you've offered some observations when prompted but I don't see you trying to get more information and learn more about the motivations of other players, besides some half-assed and half-hearted pressuring of myself (which you tried to prompt someone else to do). In fact, the more I think about your filter the less I like it. ##Vote: ReanI'd give some consideration to shooting Corazon but even if I was convinced he was scum I think I'd learn much more from lynching him than by simply shooting him. How unexpected. You're put under pressure and you instantly accuse me to try to prove me wrong about you, but 2 posts later you're already looking for arguments to back out of it like + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
Short answer to Thrawn's case:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
Obviously this plan has backfired, but I figure if you're going to come after me that gives them an interesting choice to make so hopefully we'll still get something useful out of them.
For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning. . And then you go for Corazon with some not terribly convincing arguments such as Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 18:04 Aquanim wrote:The fact that Corazon, despite apparently believing his case, is not committing to it by voting for sciberbia? THAT is scum-indicative. This seems awfully weak to me, a case on him at this point is already applying pressure by focussing discussion on him and trying to catch him on a lie. While a vote does put a little extra pressure on it I think saying it's scum-indicative not to vote is really overrating it's importance. This, combined with what Thrawn already said (not gonna waste time parroting), really gives me a bad feeling about you. Enough for a ##Vote: AquanimSome other things I really want to adress: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:55 sciberbia wrote:
EBWOP
Oh yea one other I wanted to reply to was your criticism that I ignored Cora for a while. I stopped prodding Cora because other people were doing a fine job of it and I thought it'd be more productive for them to ask questions such as "explain why you think this about sciberbia" than me doing it. Also I was getting increasingly suspicious of him so I decided to just observe and include my comprehensive thoughts in a later case.
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to question Rean who is probably my second strongest read right now. I find Aquanim's above post on him agreeable. Apparently I'm his second strongest scumread, yet all he's done is ask me a single question very early on in the thread. He has made practically no effort to actually do anything about his "second strongest scum-read". I don't like this at all. Please do explain Sciberbia. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.
i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls? He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back. At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back? That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean. Okay. 1) I'm not backing out of my read on Rean, I'm quite confident he is scum. At the time, I was quite confident on both him and Corazon being scum, and since there were already votes on Corazon I decided I'd vote for Rean to pressure him too. I don't see what problem anybody has with that. 2) "Haven't done anything about my second-strongest scumread"? I put a vote on Rean after satisfying myself he wasn't going to contribute anything meaningful without a nudge, and then he hadn't come back and replied by the time I went to sleep so there was nothing further to do. CorazonI also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2013 01:16 cDgCorazon wrote:On Aqua (again): My problem with Aquanim is that he goes from a very neutral stance on me: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.) As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information. I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.I still want an answer to this from you: On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far? Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says. @Rean Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment? To an all-out "he's scum!" stance without really having a transition between the two stances. It really troubles me that this was only after all of the cases on me came out. It just looks like Aqua just wants to follow thread sentiment for the big issues and branch out only for things related to his "reads". For example, his case on Rean screams to me that he wants to attack Rean for defending me. His case is weak and he blatantly lies about Rean's questioning of him and calls them not important when in fact he failed to read the reason they were asked in the first place: Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please. It's obvious that Aquanim did not read the reason that Rean threw out this post and simply calls Rean scummy for asking this question. This was a good post because Rean wanted to continue discussion and get a read on Aqua who he had felt was not contributing enough information and enough opinions to the conversation. The fact that Aqua calls this scummy is absurd and can only be attributed to his own scumminess. TL;DR Changes opinion on me to follow thread sentiment Attacks Rean (and says his question about town/scum reads accomplishes nothing when in fact it does) for defending me This guy is scum I'm confident enough in this case to throw a ##Vote: Aquanim out. 1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia) 2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town. 3) This guy isn't scum and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". RaynI don't think there was anything in particular new to address from rayn's vote. If anyone has anything further for me to adress I'll be around to answer. Aquanim, I know you are getting abused left, right and center but I am willing to listen to you. Help me out please: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:10 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Corazon
I also figured Corazon's vote was coming, my wagon being a nice alternative to his.
*snip*
1) I changed my opinion on Corazon because new information arose (in this case, that there continued to be no purpose behind his case on sciberbia)
2) I believe my actual stated opinion on Rean's question was that it was an easy question for scum to ask - which is in fact true. I don't claim it accomplished nothing - it is indeed a question I ask often as town. It is a question I would ask often if I was scum, too. The point was that that question was Rean's ONLY attempt to draw information out of the thread, which gives me no reason to think he's town.
3) This guy isn't scum
and 4) It's interesting (and scummy) that all of Corazon's reasons for thinking I'm scum are in some way linked to "attacking Corazon" or "attacking people defending Corazon". A (red) - I assume the guy that isn't scum is Corazon; otherwise the only person this could be referring to contextually is Rean (which makes zero sense) B (blue) - If you can state openly Corazon *is* town, why do you proceed with point 4 where you dilute that read? Quite an odd sequence in my mind. C (green) - I can't follow the progression to this post: Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:51 Aquanim wrote:<To Corazon> I'm not sure there's any point in talking to you since 1) you're likely scum and 2) you've already made up your mind apparently. + Show Spoiler [justification] +Actually, you know what? Try justifying some of your wild claims first.
I've explained that I was waiting to see if you were going to back up your sciberbia case with a vote, and when you didn't I became much more suspicious of you. In what way is that smoke and mirrors?
What is your evidence that I wanted town to waste time arguing about you?
My attacking Rean WAS an answer to his question. He wanted to know my scumread - and it was Rean himself. I also had a scumread on you but I thought it would be more useful and I'd learn more by pushing Rean at that time, as I've explained.
Would you care to further explain why you think the argument why Rean is scum is weaker than the argument why I am? You've said that without actually justifying why you think it's so.
Oh, and why shouldn't I try to change the lynch subject when most everyone is voting for me? Yes there is some justification but this is OMGUS at its best. I also know from the standard of play that you judge others that you would not fall prey to this type of behavior (this I am certain of) henceforth, I can not follow the progression of A to B to C. The red: Corazon's third argument why I was scum is that "this guy [Aquanim] is scum". I was replying to that point in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. OK, I am about to do another re-read now I got 3hrs of sleep  Sorry to beat the drum that has been asked several times, I just want a concise summary of your stances so I can cross-reference when I read. (1) You have had a mild to now strong scum read on Corazon basically all game (developed to strong last say 8 hrs) (2) You have a mild to now strong scum read on rean basically all game (3) I dont think there are opinions on anything else? + please throw out a read on JJD/Onegu.
To be honest I'm now more confident in Rean scum than Corazon.
Before I went to sleep, pretty much the sum total of Corazon's play was some half-assed push on sciberbia without a vote, which I considered scummy. I'm having some trouble reconciling
On November 21 2013 01:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
I didn't vote for sciberia because 0% of wagons in the first 2 hours of a game actually get to the deadline? None. What is the point of vote-jumping? It just allows people to skim my cases once they see the bold vote and only really look at it once it's my turn to be under the gun. Voting for people at this stage is pretty useless because it's not going to get a lynch going. I guarantee you that our reads and opinions are going to change before the deadline and it's useless to lock yourself in (or at least making a statement saying you are going to) 2 hours into a game.
with
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.
but that is the kind of contradiction which I could believe a townie would make.
Since then, however, Corazon's posting has improved somewhat - he's talking about a larger variety of things in the thread and looks more like he's trying to be productive and useful. I'm still not convinced since a fair bit of his volume is devoted to defending his statements rather than doing anything proactive, but that's understandable given how much he's being asked to defend himself. I don't see anything which convinces me as to his alignment either way.
His apparent conviction that I'm scum is a pretty safe view to hold given the current state of the thread. Again, could just be a townie who agrees with other townies, or he could be scum hiding on the obvious wagon. Hard to tell.
Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game.
+ Show Spoiler +And before someone shouts "Aqua is jumping off Corazon since the Cora wagon died down", and I know you want to, consider this: both you and I are evaluating Corazon's alignment based on the same information. If both of us shift our opinion about Corazon, that's not me sheeping you - that's me chainging my opinion based on the same information as you.
As for Rean, since I put my vote on him his contributions have been:
1) jumping on my wagon, which he was pretty much obliged to
2) making some shitty point against sciberbia and then defending it against all and sundry - the fact that this point is based around sciberbia having a scum read on Rean is a black mark in my opinion, attacking someone for giving them a scumread is a typical scum move
3) calling out LoneMeow lurking, which as I've said is really, really easy for scum to do
Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me.
They're both coming after me with a fair dose of confirmation-bias/deliberate-obtuseness, so there's that too.
As regards the other two:
JarJarDrinks
- Original case on Mocsta was not really airtight but not having been there at the time I can understand his argument, even if I don't agree with it.
- Overall he's putting his viewpoint into the thread and defending it effectively when queried.
- He's seeking clarification from Corazon about Cora's original argument against sciberbia, which was indeed unclear. i.e. trying to understand what's going on in the game, when he could have just ignored it and carried on. Major town points.
Conclusion: Likely town.
Onegu
- First post is clearly based on a quick scan of the thread rather than in-depth analysis. I don't know that I'd take it too seriously.
- Suspicion of Mocsta's "thread captaining" is weird, it's not an argument I'd have made and I don't find it convincing. Plenty of townies make arguments I don't find convincing though, so meh.
- Put a lot of work into replying to Mocsta's wallpost, but given how useless that was I don't give it town points.
- Other than that, not a whole lot of effort.
Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you.
If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer.
I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish.
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?
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On November 21 2013 10:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:On November 21 2013 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction? This is the best case in this game. Really, cause I think this case sucks. @ first I read it and thought that top bolded quote was from aqua and thought "yeah, that is pretty shifty. But no shiftier than how Rean said he was gonna vote for people that post meaningless one-liners and then proceed to make a bunch of meaningless one-line posts. But that wasn't even aquanims quote. He was just agreeing w/ the general sentiment. I don't how you can see that post and believe that aqua was saying that he was always gonna vote his top scumread. Yes, he was agreeing with Corazon about always voting for his top scumread. Then he proceeds to vote for his non-top scumread. When i ask him about it he does not deny that, he says something about why his vote was good. I say i don't buy it, then he changes his story. Seems pretty clear to me.
To repeat myself, I wasn't agreeing with Corazon about always voting for top scumread, I was agreeing with him about frusturation with confirmation-biased and "LOLOLOL A/B/C IS SCUM" townies. Which is pretty clear from what I said at the time.
I'm replying to this to make it clear that I have in fact answered this point by rayn already. Unless someone else wants to discuss this, I have no further interest in going around in circles here.
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On November 21 2013 10:24 sciberbia wrote:Of the players that started posting since I went to bed last night, I think Onegu looks by far the worst. His actions look inconsistent with a town mindset. Pay close attention to what his reads are, and how what he chooses to post about is incongruous with his stated reads. + Show Spoiler [first post] +On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.
Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.
Now to my goals/early game statements:
1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.> Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post. Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change. Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy. Anyway rean is really scumm though. Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though. In Onegu's first post, he states pretty significant scumreads on rean and Cora, both of whom have had significant heat on them today. But he spends the majority of his actual words in his post rambling about Mocsta's post count restriction, which is so irrelevant, seeing as he dropped it. Rean and Cora are rather large issues in the thread, and given that Onegu has rather significant scumreads on them, you would expect the majority of his posts to be dedicated to them, but notice how he always seems to instead ramble on about Mocsta. + Show Spoiler [Onegu] +On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.
Important things for everyone to know:
As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation
- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.
The others no idea. Really? You dont know me yet? On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. On November 20 2013 22:44 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 22:40 Aquanim wrote:On November 20 2013 22:39 Onegu wrote:On November 20 2013 22:21 Mocsta wrote:
onegu
your 3 posts, I cannot comprehend the motive behind those posts - if you are town
walk me through why the items you have discussed are the most relevant items in the thread to . Umm I think you are scum with rean. Catching scum would be my motive. Well, I guess that answers my question. Is your entire scum read on Mocsta due to that business with his post limit? That and his early post about giving scum reads to like the only three people who posted. Plus his thread control doesnt seem natural, its like he saw he could do it as scum but wasnt planning on doing it but he did it anyway. Ill give more when Im back home. On November 21 2013 01:49 Onegu wrote:
Ok I am home and put my son to sleep so Im getting out my notebook rereading everything and will be back with you shortly, also I basicly agree with everything JJD has said so far minus a small bit of the cora stuff, but the rean and mocsta stuff yeah. But he took back his mospcsta scum read :/. Also I didnt read anyone being a douche to you mocsta so just stop already. On November 21 2013 03:37 Onegu wrote:
@MOCSTA
1 hes trying to be clever there is nothing to be overdone and there is no way a troll post like this can be scummy, fuck the police was already taken...
2 why cant sciberia find the repeat and calling of you obv town scummy, but your troll post null as it was the first post in the thread? You getting that it is scum-scum interaction I dont understand how you get that read from this post.
3 how is this agressive, you put a pregame post restriction, then start the game numbering your posts, seems like you are going to keep your post restriction up. Calling you out for it isnt agressive its correct when all your first few posts are trolling.
4 this is fine
5 he made a troll response how is that overcompensated? Doesnt make sense and him not thinking the same as you is a scum read?
6 the first part of this is correct that post was null, the second part you can only get so much info from the first page and alot of page one was trolling. Telling someone to keep looking isnt scummy, its not damage control.
7 How is this a scumslip, 2 different people thought you were masons, I know you kinda think they are both scum at this point, but when you drop lines about being connected with thrawn people might think you are masoned, no way this is a scumslip.
8 again not a scumslip
9 reans first post is uber scummy. It fakes agreeing with coras null post, and then says nothing and there is no way he thinks he is saying something meaningful.
10 iirc you had already said you werent masons so he says the only other option how is that townie?
12 meh ok
12b also fine
13 you do the samething later on when you talking about haveing such a good town atmospher so how can you give him scum points for this?
14 syas nothing why you post this, I dont know his meta so this poat means nothing...
15 still dont know how you are seeing scum scum intreactions here. Maybe you are just tunneled at this point. Also at this point you say you like aqua calling out rean.
16 again why post a completely null post?
17 This is fine, but you are like he agrees with me that mean hes awesome town
18 this has been talked about already, why are you so tunneled on scum-scum here doesnt make since.
19 the post is good that means the timeing is fine also, even if I am argueing with someone and I see something that needs questioned I will question it reguardless of what else is going on
20 admit to being tunneled
21 this is fine
22 tunneled
23 meh no point in continueing on with cora, him moveing on is fine and how he did it was fine.
24 really wishywashy post but also slightly dinstanceing himself from rean while giveing him a town read at the same time. I think this is really scummy from you mocsta. Your thoughts on rean is just really odd. You can tell a lot about a player's alignment by looking at what they choose to post about. It doesn't make a lot of sense for town!Onegu to be spending all his posts on Mocsta, even pulling up really old (now somewhat irrelevent) posts from Mocsta and breaking them down, when he has stated strong scumreads on Rean and Corazon, both of which he may actually be able to get lynched today. Is he even pushing a Mocsta lynch? No. He's not actively pushing for anything at all. He doesn't seem to think Mocsta is scum anymore than he thinks Rean and Cora are scum, so it looks to me like he just wanted to stay away from the Rean and Cora wagons for one reason or another, and in order to still look like he was doing something complained a lot about Mocsta. It doesn't add up. I think he could be the best lynch today.
Need to reread Aquanim, Cora, and Rean. Not sure who I want to lynch most. In the meantime I'd appreciate some other thoughts on Onegu.
Let me put it this way - I see nothing in Onegu's posts which is making me lean town on him. However, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a little while to further understand your point of view.
With regards to Onegu's first post this reads like the kind of post where he's just scanned the thread and picked out interesting tidbits without any overall plan to the post. If he's at the mall he's probably posting from his phone, which I imagine makes constructing an organised, coherent post difficult. I think it's understandable that in this post he's spent more time on Mocsta.
The fact that he hasn't elaborated on Corazon and Rean in the rest of his filter is a scummy kind of thing to do, I agree. However, a fair proportion of his interactions with the thread are due to Mocsta asking him questions and critiquing Onegu's read on him, which would naturally lead to Onegu spending most of his time talking about Mocsta.
(That being said, he doesn't seem to have talked about anyone other than Mocsta really at all after that first post. IF that doesn't change abrubtly when he gets back Onegu starts to look really bad.)
@Sciberbia: How plausible do you think these explanations for Onegu's behaviour are?
My opinion is that they could explain Onegu's play if he's town, but they're sufficiently unlikely that overall my leaning on Onegu is scummy.
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On November 21 2013 10:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 10:42 Aquanim wrote:
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about? ##UnvoteAfter I get back from a meeting I will re-read the thread with an unbiased mind. One thing not in your favour is that I personally do not like the combo of Rean/Cora, maybe 1 of them but not both (and you keep focusing attention on this) I would expect if both are scum, and you/i/thrawn were town; they would have tried to combo up more. Instead it felt like two conversations in parallel (you + rean) (thrawn + myself + cora)
I can't say I've looked at them as a pair, really. Pre-flip associations and all that. I'm not sure why you think the pattern of conversations we were having makes them not a pair though... I wouldn't have thought that scum would want to be in the same conversation about a matter of substance.
Another thing not in your favour is acknowledgement of Onegu. (who I do think is scum)
On one hand it should be clear that he is a viable push for your safety today; but you are not taking that opportunity (even though you admit he is "scummi-ish"
Though you could contest that on the other hand you should be pushing your best scum read; considering the brevity of your situation (6/12 votes) this is silly - Onegu is apparently in top 3 and could secure your safety.
At present I am explaining exactly what my point of view is: namely, that while Onegu is an acceptable lynch I consider Rean to be a more likely one to flip scum. Lying about my reads for the purposes of being able to jump onto the Onegu wagon right now would not reflect well on me.
If I continue to see no interest in lynching Rean I fully intend to vote Onegu, or any other wagon, for the sake of self-preservation, as you say. For the moment, though, I'll keep my vote on the person I'd ideally prefer to lynch.
(I am aware that given my current level of thread presence the amount of traction I can gather against Rean is small to none. Still, I have a responsibility to try.)
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On November 21 2013 10:54 sciberbia wrote:
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The things that give me pause concernign Rean are his activity and overall abrasiveness. Specifically, I don't know why he'd be picking this fight with me if he were scum. Given that I called him scummy, it strategically doesn't make any sense for him to provoke me, and actively engage in discussion with me, just as I said I'm deciding between him and a few others as my top candidate.
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Do you think it would make more sense for Rean to avoid talking to you about your scumread? Confronting a read like that head-on and attacking is something I've seen scum do before.
(For example, IIRC Spicydinosaur's scum play in NMM XLIII looked quite similar in that regard - when FirmTofu expressed a slight suspicion of him Spicydinosaur attacked him vehemently over it. In particular, Spicydinosaur didn't try to actually refute FT's points against him, but preferred to directly attack FT's play instead. This feels similar to Rean's play here.)
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On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
Aquanim is still going around repeating points that have already been answered and I feel the same. But I'm scared I might be tunneling too hard so I'll go reread his filter with an open mind.
Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
Why is that everyone here is so anxious about me mentioning lurkers though? It seems to me like with your attitudes you automatically assume anyone that mentions lurkers ever is scum, but that way people can get away with lurking hard and not contributing a god damn thing. I find it really fishy that both Aqua and Scib seem so paranoid of me for trying to call out lurkers >.>
Calling out lurkers is not scummy. My point is that it's not towny either, and I see nothing towny in your filter. Calling out lurkers is a thing which might be construed as thoughtful content but in fact is not, which is why I mention it.
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On November 21 2013 11:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +At this point my lynch is looking quite likely. However, I'm still a townie and I can still be useful to you.
If I go and do something on my own initiative at this point, I reckon whatever it is I'm going to get jumped on by eager scum and confirmation-biased townies. I can still do that if that's what you'd prefer.
I think I can accomplish more if you ask me questions. That way, since you all have the initiative about what I talk about, I won't get jumped on for every post I make for "trying to redirect discussion" or some such rubbish.
At this point, Mocsta and sciberbia, I think this is mostly on you - everyone else here either doesn't want to talk to me or is just lurking. What would you like to talk to me about?
This is really really bad. "I have no idea what to do. So Mocsta and sciberbia tell me what to do so i can't possibly go wrong in what i say". He's not looking into where he wants to. He's asking where other people want him to look. That's fear gentleman. Mafia fears they say something wrong.
Come off it Rayn. I explained in that very post why I'm doing this. I'm quite willing to make contributions to scumhunting - what I'm trying to do here is avoid the question of "Why are you choosing to talk about X - HE MUST BE DOING IT BECAUSE HE'S SCUM AGJPIAGGHNA H". I've had quite enough of that in the last 24 hours and I'm sick of it. On the other hand, if I answer questions from other people, then that's no longer an issue and you can evaluate the quality of my thoughts without worrying about why I chose to share those thoughts in particular.
If you think Mocsta won't ask me questions where I can go wrong... well, you don't know Mocsta very well. Trap questions are one of his primary tools. I invite them.
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On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
...
Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
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@Rean
How likely do you think Onegu is to be scum and why? If you think he's likely scum, why are you suspicious of Sciberbia making a case against him?
Also, why do you think that Sciberbia's motives are doubtful for going after someone already mentioned? AFAIK the people who haven't been "mentioned" so far are either obvtown or so lurky there is no case to be made against them.
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On November 21 2013 12:23 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 12:03 sciberbia wrote:On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
So. Damn. wishy-washy. Flips his stance 3 times over 2 lines. And as Aquanim points out (in another good post), why is Rean complaining about Onegu being an 'easy lynch target' if his posting is 'certainly scummy'? Honestly I think there's a good chance they are both scum. Sigh....I'm not flipping stances. I have a single stance, and I explained it quite clearly: Onegu's posting is shit and not helping i any way, and it's scummy as fuck but it can also means he's just stupid. Considering multiple possibilities isnt wishy-washy, its called not drawing conclusions too soon. And the easy lynch target is because I felt and still feel like Aqua is scum and the Onegu thing was a convenient alternative for scum. Maybe I'm just overthinking it but it feels too convenient for my tastes.
I don't see you "considering multiple possibilities" with regards to my alignment. I know that everything I've done this game has a town motivation, so I'm disturbed that you don't even think that's a possibility.
Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 11:56 Aquanim wrote:On November 21 2013 11:37 Rean wrote:
I don't like this Onegu bandwagon. Feels to me like it's an attempt to drive away the lynch from Aquanim to an easy to lynch target. While his posting is certainly scummy it could just be legitimately bad play. However he's still a better bet than most.
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Sciberbia...while your reasoning is anything but original, it's understandable so not gonna push that read on me any further.
I don't like though that you're yet again trying to go for someone already mentioned (Onegu).
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@ReanHow likely do you think Onegu is to be scum and why? If you think he's likely scum, why are you suspicious of Sciberbia making a case against him? Also, why do you think that Sciberbia's motives are doubtful for going after someone already mentioned? AFAIK the people who haven't been "mentioned" so far are either obvtown or so lurky there is no case to be made against them. If it wasn't for the timing of it all, I'd say very likely. His posts are bad and not contributing anything meaningful at all, throwing around scumreads while not doing anything at all with them. I'm suspicious of Sciberbia in case Scib is scum trying to get the heat off you and decided Onegu was an easy target with how he was posting and Mocsta already going after him.
Do you have any reason to believe this explanation is more likely than Sciberbia believing I'm town and looking for an actual scum wagon to run? By your own admission Onegu is quite scummy.
I think it's weird he's been doing the same thing over and over: joining in on starting bandwagons. And if people are so lurky you can't say anything about them they should be pressured, not ignored.
I think you're misrepresenting Sciberbia's play here. Sure he is expressing suspicions on a player who has previously been suspected. What you've left out is:
1) Most people in the game have been suspected at some point. Once again, who could Sciberbia think is scum who doesn't fit this criteria?
2) It's hardly like Sciberbia was sheeping Mocsta - in fact, Mocsta was voting for me at the time, and Sciberbia did most of the legwork in actually writing up a case and putting down a vote.
If you're town I honestly don't know how you believe this about Sciberbia's play.
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On November 21 2013 12:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 12:35 sciberbia wrote:On November 21 2013 12:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 12:24 sciberbia wrote:
@Mocsta
Scum agenda: lynch ANYONE but me (or my scumbuddies)
Town agenda: pinpoint a scum and lynch him
The easiest way to tell which agenda aquanim is pursuing is by looking at how interested he is in who exactly gets lynched other than him. Due to his posts on Cora, Rean, and Onegu, it looks to me like it is interested in who precisely his counterwagon is, which is indicative of a town mindset. Now i would not say that. Look again into his conclusions. Not sure what you're trying to suggest. His conclusion seems to be Rean > Onegu > Cora > others. I don't see anything terribly suspicious about those conclusions. What do you expect him to do? Come up with town reads on all the other lynch candidates? They are lynch candidates for a reason. It only makes sense that he would find them all scummy to some degree. The point is that he has at least looked into them and has clear preferences among them. Rean: Show nested quote +Again, I have no conclusive evidence that Rean is scum, but I'm more confident about him than Corazon. His point against sciberbia really smells to me. Corazon: Show nested quote +Summary of my read on Corazon: I can believe everything Corazon's done so far from a scum Corazon or a town Corazon, though I feel the scum explanation is more likely. I'd prefer to wait for another day to lynch him and try to put together a more conclusive read on him. I'd certainly prefer to lynch him before most people in this game. Onegu: Show nested quote +Conclusion: Definitely need to see more effort. If it's not forthcoming, I think he's a decent lynch today, though I'd still prefer Rean or maybe Cora. If he does offer some more reads, activity, etc. I think he could then at least wait for another day.
What i read is "i can lynch any of these guys".
What's your point? I could lynch any of them - I think all three are reasonably likely to be scum, and I'm damn sure they're all more likely to flip scum than me. I think Rean's the most likely to flip scum which is why I'm voting for him, as I said in the posts you quoted. The other two are both reasonably likely but I think that IF Corazon is town he will be better able to persuade me of it in future days so Onegu is the better lynch of the two.
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