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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437262
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:22 GMT
#159
Post 8

(1) I won't have a post restriction anymore, but I will be numbering my posts so I can try and force consolidation.

(2)
On November 20 2013 14:21 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta, whenever you get back:

If someone gave you a day-vigilante shot and said you had to shoot someone in this thread right now, who would it be and why?

(This isn't quite the same question as "Who is your biggest scumread", by the way.)

I wouldn't shoot anyone right now. JJD, Vonthin, Onegu, LM, Jampidampi have yet to post. Thats just under 50% of the game.

Having said that: if I had a one-time bullet that kills scum and misses town; I would shoot between Sciberbia/Corazon/Bereft.

Pur quoi?
Warning MASSIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY ANALYSIS of therad
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote:
THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN

I find this tone overdone / try-hard. Its only a very slight negative lean.

On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Having just come out of a game as scum. I personally feel this is written with the tone of scum-scum.
Sciberbia takes a position using strong descriptive words "trolly" and "ingratiating" from one post that to me - with limited knowledge - is null.
Further, Sciberbia references my name.. I find this odd.
I know I am town, but only scum should be aware of that too.
Now: SCiberbia does not comment on my alignment here; yet, directly infers it was scummish for Corazon to
"echo" what I said.

On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

I find this tone too aggressive. As I stated in my retort to Bereft, scum like to interupt town circles.
Thrawn is hardly confirmed to me, but of the 7 people to post, he is my best town read.
I will give this a null tell by itself - however if Bereft keeps up the aggression I will be treating him as scum.

On November 20 2013 12:26 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:18 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:12 Aquanim wrote:
Also, it gave you something to ask me about, so as a conversation starter I consider it a success.


What are your conclusions about moc's alignment based on his answer?

A teeny-tiny town-lean since he seems to be relaxed.

That's interesting. I assumed you were coming to the opposite conclusion, since to me his response looks more "sarcastic and dodgy" than "just saying no". What about his response strikes you as relaxed?

+ Show Spoiler [sarcastic and dodgy] +

On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
Scum: a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

No, I am not.

I am a mobster, which is typically "scum" in the world of forum-mafia
However, in this game, roles are reversed and of the town I am.


Again, as stated before this reads to me gentle prodding: NOT for information, but to discredit.

Coming back to the thread, Aquanim reads a lot more calm/composed to me so is back to null. I think Sciberbia has jumped too brashly into an opportunity to shit-sling and from a player of his analytical background I find this highly suspicious.

On November 20 2013 12:27 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

agreed, very high chance imo. only potentially succeeded by this even more 'safe' entrance:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:00 sciberbia wrote:
Hello everyone!


also trolly and ingratiating because why are you smiling at me? i've no idea who you are. are you my enemy? i don't know about you, but i've come from a tough city, living on the streets, forced to make a living in any way possible. i don't smile at passerby's on the street. the only people that do, do so with a smug sneer, and they are the pigs.


I have a problem with this post because its completely 180' with where my mindset is in the thread. I also do not like the interplay between Sciberbia and Bereft. I want to avoid making association reads without flips but I find Bereft is overly defensive and certainly not natural.

"I've no idea who you are. are you my enemy?

In one phrase: Its just over compensated.

On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


I saw some people give Thumbs up for this post. I thought it stunk - real bad. I think Corazon needs to use soap next time he has a shower.
Its a bunch of generic policy stuff and is how I used to love playing scum (in the newbies). Technically the post is null as inexperienced town can do this and supposedly we can judge corazon based on how he implements this.
My issue with this post was the last paragraph:

"On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss.
We're not going to find scum on the first page.
You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game."

I find it odd that Corazon is confident enough to say that the posters on the first page are all town (Sciberbia, Bereft, Thrawn, Aquanim, Corazon, myself) and simultaneously ignore my post giving scum reads to Bereft/Sciberbia/Aquanim.
I think this is damage control.

On November 20 2013 12:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


I'd like to say that mason falls under the role of "standard roles" and could be potentially in this set-up. Very intriguing...

This might be Mocsta using moclogic.. but I treat this as a scum slip.
Corazon jumps to the natural conclusion that we are both confirmed, so assumes we did it through a role = mason.
I think anyone else without game knowledge can piece together we were takling about the "de ja vu" from before.
At the least it shows Corazon is NOT reading the thread closely which is suspicious for this many posts.

On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Ditto the corazon read above

On November 20 2013 12:47 Bereft wrote:
he's referencing mocsta saying that i'm trying to disrupt their town circle:

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

post 5
Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya.

I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you.
Course not everyone has posted so this is tentative and subject to change.

The answer to your question was in my previous post.
Dr ja vu.

Thrawn is contextually reading the same as I do. It's only a small point but enough for a town lean at this stage of the game.

Thanks for looking out for my post count

I will give Bereft town points here. He has arrived at the natural conclusion. So back to null.


- Rean than makes a really bad introduction post, but thats null. If anything its town that usually make such "zero content" posts because they actually believe what they are saying they think it *is* content.

On November 20 2013 12:52 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?


no

Can you explain your statement then?


Think he means they have town reads based on previous meta or something. Not actually confirmed-confirmed.

Comes to the natural conclusion albeit slightly differently. I think this is very townie though. He knows nothing of thrawn or myself... could not interpret what I meant when i said thrawn is town so assumed it was meta based. This demonstrates a guy thinking about the game. Its not anything to be confirmed town, but is a very good sign this early in the game.

- Then Corazon/Sci shit the thread up.

On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?
Aqua is thinking the same way I do. I like this. He is a lot more polite about his suspicions/prodding though.

On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

This resposne is really bad as once again it completely ignores the content I posted about those players.
Maybe I'm wrong, but at this stage of the game it illicits a response regardless.
Horse blinkers like these are not a good sign this early on.

On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.

Personal heuristic but I find early game its only scum that use phrases like this.
"I think we're actually doing quite well so far"
How the heck does town have a guage on what is good/bad when only 50% of the players have participated.

On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

Bereft is either comfortable distancing team mates, or is town. - I am not familiar enough with his meta to make an opinion yet.
I like that he picks up on this stuff to corazon that I already identified earlier. Still null.

On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.


Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro.

The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now.

I dunno, this is just too haste from Corazon. Everyone knows he is "sensitive" and prone to OMGUS so it does dilute the read a touch, however, I can't keep getting over this is scum-to-scum interaction.

"You're grasping at straws" + "you are looking pretty scummy" are strong words and stances, yet, does it really read like Corazon is *trying* to get Sciberbia lynched? I dont sense congruence here.

Again, scum-to-scum interactions I think...


- I like the way Aquanim is prodding Rean.


On November 20 2013 13:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

He didn't do it with just me. He told Moc and I that it was scummy that we made troll posts. At least Mocsta was direct in saying who he thought was scummy instead of sciberia who is only doing a "window looking" version of scum hunting.

This post is null to me. Corazon reads very emotional so its hard to understand motive.


On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?

Bereft is starting to look better as is reading the actual content behind the queries. Rean does the same.

- I entirely agreed with Thrawn vote at that time

On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
Excellent post from Aquanim. If hes scum, hes playing a great game because hes asking the questions that are in my head as Im reading it. That is very hard to do as scum.

On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

I think this is a scum-slip.
Corazon is too assertive in his read and this goes beyond emotion. When I read this, I take it as someone who is speaking "matter of fact".
This is enough for me to be 90% confident that both Sciberbia and Corazon are scum.

There is no way that enough content has been delivered in this thread for a town person to jump to such a strong conclusion as this. Event hough I think Sciberbia is scummy, I do think he came in here with the intention to troll like this. I was just posting a theory.

On November 20 2013 13:40 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


Do you find this behavior suspicious from Aquanim or are you simply making an observation?

The question is fair, however, in context of thread events this is aterrible post.
Corazon is slamming into Sciberbia, and this is what Sciberbia thinks is relevant to discuss? WTF?

On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Thrawn
When I made that post, I was thinking along the lines of "I think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum.

This post does not align with his strong opinion in the previous post.
Im starting to sound tunneled because I am now so so so certain Corazon and Sciberbia are scum.

On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?


I am not a fan of Aquanim for this interpretation however, I also know he is more calculated than I am so can accept a town Aquanim may play out the thread like this. Im going to go null but will be curious how Aquanim chooses to interpret this massive post and my conclusions.

On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.

More generics from Corazon. Importantly, he just called Sciberbia scum last page and now is acting as if nothing happened.
Deffo scum

On November 20 2013 13:57 sciberbia wrote:
@Rean
What is your strongest scumread right now and why?

Again, he also dodges the shit-ball fight of Corazon.

Some may argue that is towny to avoid this and not shit the thread. However, the key differentiator I find is that if town choose that approach they would also ACKNOWLEDGE the existence of the read. Sciberbia just dodges it and hopes no one brings it up further. Very bad.

On November 20 2013 13:57 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:51 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:49 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=7#127

Ah yes, my bad.

Do you think Corazon's argument that sciberbia is scum is persuasive? Why or why not?


Persuasive...it's a good argument. Sciberbia was being more laidback, trying to avoid comitting to anything, so it definitely makes him look scummy.

Overall the kind of argument that gets discussion started and gets us somewhere useful, I quite like it. Guess persuasive would be a decent way to describe it.
This guy is interesting. As scum I think I would phrase things similar to this guy because there is always an 'out'. I think in this instance, this is a townie with an opinion speaking naturally and as the thought comes to his mind. Can evaluate him more if the flips on Corazon/Sciberbia go awry - which I doubt.
[/QUOTE]

In short I am very comfortable to lynch Corazon and Sciberbia.
I would lynch Corazon because him trying to wriggle out of it will be more fun/alignment-revealing in my opinion.

##Vote: cDgCorazon

and to answer your question, I would shoot Sciberbia as he is the other half.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:24 GMT
#160
post 9
It should be clear that the first half of the above post (till pur quoi) was written when i got back.

The second half was written after I filter-dived and reassessed my opinion - hence why I would take the shot.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:28 GMT
#162
post 10
Thrawn baby: De ja Vu all over again.

We might as well be masons + innocent childs
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:29 GMT
#163
On November 20 2013 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
*snip*

Scib, can you explain your intentions behind this post?

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Were you trying to raise a legitimate concern about Corazon's post?

post 12
Let me answer that for you:

"No Thrawn, I was not trying to raise legitimate concerns.

In fact I was trying to half-heartedly distance myself from my scum buddy"
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:39 GMT
#165
[Post 12b[/b]
@sci
Did you open my spoiler and read my grievances with you?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:50 GMT
#170
Post 13
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11.

Duly Noted - hence 12b prior

Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together.

(1) I am not trying to say anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say.
(2) This is a very scummy response.
You do not actually retort anything I said; instead you try to brush it off by insinuating it is stupid/incorrect.
Guess what
I am not going to take that leap of faith, and I won't let the thread take that leap either.

If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes.
Everyone has an ideal way they think they would ply their trade; yet, when push comes to shove so many things do not come to bear.

Translation:I don't really care what you think you would do pre-game BEFORE receiving a role PM.
What I care about is how you have played this game since AFTER receiving a role PM
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 06:56 GMT
#173
Post 14
@Thrawn:

What do you think of Rean response.

I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that.

I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is.
Hence, what is the point of the comment?

In short I see 3 outcomes of his post
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:
Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10

On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12

consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
[image loading]


More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.

In particular: + Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red.

I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.

And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.


(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.

Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues??

Catch my drift?

P.S. Fuck da POLICE
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 07:06 GMT
#177
Post 15
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
I can agree.
I think personally what started off as light distancing back-fired once others (read: town) called them out. Then their story just falls to pieces.
Having said that, I feel much more confident about Corazon being scum than Sciberbia.
Having said that , I am still very concerned that Sciberbia reacted to the "mason thing" the same way as Corazon. I truly think this is a legitimate point - even though its somewhat post-flip based.

@Sci
Point #1 is good
Point #2 I dont even understand what you are trying to suggest
Point #3 is good
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 07:10 GMT
#181
On November 20 2013 16:05 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote:
@thrawn
I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.


That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why..

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote:
THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:00 Mocsta wrote:
post 1
Yo fuck the POLICE


true dat


These posts came before your comment on Mocsta. Aren't they both as "safe" and "trolly" as what Corazon did? Why did you decide that only Corazon deserved to be called out for what bereft and I also did?

One of your concerns with C's post is that it "echoes what Mocsta said." Typically a point like this can be valid when someone restates another's argument, and the reason why it would be scummy is because it means the person who "echoes" has to "echo" because they cannot produce content of their own. Are you really trying to suggest that Corazon didn't know what to say, so he decided to copy Mocsta, and is therefore scummy? That argument completely falls apart when you're talking about something so silly and non-alignment indicative as saying "fuck the police."



@thrawn
I agree it's an extremely weak tell. It was the first page of the game so that's all you can expect.

Bereft's post is much more attention-grabby and less 'safe' than Cora's. If anything I leaned town on Bereft for his first post.
Your first post was slightly less blendy than Cora's and you followed it up with a natural question, so that was a point in your favor.


I'm not going to argue how Cora's first post makes him scum. That's just a silly argument. I just find it ever so slightly scummier than the other initial posts, so that's why I chose to single his out. I basically looked at all the opening posts and thought to myself, "Which of these might I post as scum if I was hoping to blend in and not draw attention?" and Cora's fit that description best.
Not to be a prick, but your opener fits that bill more than Corazon.

Corazon and I have history, so you could argue he opened that way to satiate me from tunneling him.
However, town are guilty of posting responses like that as openers or second posts very often.
its part of early game trolling.

Hence why I gave Corazon post a null tell. I don't like how you rambled several paragraphs just to state the above.

Too much quantity, not enough substance.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 07:20 GMT
#182
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.

Important things for everyone to know:

As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation

- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.

The others no idea.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:10 GMT
#189
On November 20 2013 16:46 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
@Mocsta
+ Show Spoiler +


Having just come out of a game as scum. I personally feel this is written with the tone of scum-scum.
Sciberbia takes a position using strong descriptive words "trolly" and "ingratiating" from one post that to me - with limited knowledge - is null.
Further, Sciberbia references my name.. I find this odd.
I know I am town, but only scum should be aware of that too.
Now: SCiberbia does not comment on my alignment here; yet, directly infers it was scummish for Corazon to
"echo" what I said.



I felt his post was 99% null and the 1% scummy. That's all there is to it. It's really senseless to try to keep analyzing this when we now have so much more to go on.

Your alignment was irrelevant. His post is blendy regardless of what your alignment is.

+ Show Spoiler +


Again, as stated before this reads to me gentle prodding: NOT for information, but to discredit.

Coming back to the thread, Aquanim reads a lot more calm/composed to me so is back to null. I think Sciberbia has jumped too brashly into an opportunity to shit-sling and from a player of his analytical background I find this highly suspicious.



This isn't shit-slinging at all.. I was prodding aquanim for information. I was confused why he called your response townie because I thought the natural conclusion from his premises was that it was scummy. I thought he might just be scared to seriously call you scum which is why I asked for more explanation to see how genuine his response was. It seemed genuine enough so I let it go at that.

+ Show Spoiler +

You claimed that my asking thrawn if he was claiming masons is a scumslip.


This tell is objectively ridiculous on two levels. First of all, it was not perfectly clear whether thrawn was claiming masons or not, given that he used the words "confirmed town to each other" and he had stated no prior indication that he thought you were town (I checked). So I wasn't wrong to ask him whether he was claiming or not, because it was objectively unclear.

And secondly, even if it was objectively crystal clear that he wasn't claiming masons, I'm pretty sure that my alignment has very little to no bearing on my reading comprehension.

Let me know if I missed anything that you still want me to respond to. (thrawn, mocsta)
Nah we are OK.

That sprawl before was thoughts written as I was reading and unedited.

I have had "another" re-read and have had a chance to settle my thoughts.
##Unvote

I feel better about Corazon because of the impetus he had on page 8 when Rean questioned Aquanim about town/scum reads.
At this time, Corazon/Sciberbia were going at it pretty hard; and Corazon feels the compulsion to inject himself into the convo of Rean/Aquanim to state some pro-town stuff.
Considering the battle with Sciberia, I find this move as scum highly unlikely - as it suggests that a scum Corazon was not threatened by being pressured by Scibs et al - something which contradicts his emotional mindset.

I have downgraded Scibs to null territory as I like his consistency. Curerntly I think I am misinterpreting his intentions.
Maybe he genuinely does hate trolling, and I just haven't seen him like this before.



Somethings still bugging me about Rean *and* Aquanim. I think its their composure during all of this.

Thrawn case on Aquanim is interesting and I want to see his response before proceeding further.

As an aside:
I find it curious that Aquanim thought Thrawn was town for throwing a leading vote onto Corazon, yet did not join the train himself. I don't think he attributed the tell as as "thrawn specific" tell, so the corollary is that he agreed Corazon was scummy

Further, I do not like how Aquanim handled the Mocsta town-read query from Sciberbia regarding sarcasm.
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:26 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:18 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:12 Aquanim wrote:
Also, it gave you something to ask me about, so as a conversation starter I consider it a success.


What are your conclusions about moc's alignment based on his answer?

A teeny-tiny town-lean since he seems to be relaxed.

That's interesting. I assumed you were coming to the opposite conclusion, since to me his response looks more "sarcastic and dodgy" than "just saying no". What about his response strikes you as relaxed?

+ Show Spoiler [sarcastic and dodgy] +

On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
Scum: a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

No, I am not.

I am a mobster, which is typically "scum" in the world of forum-mafia
However, in this game, roles are reversed and of the town I am.


I think it's to be expected that in a forum game replies will be more verbose, and I'd expect some level of sarcasm from Mocsta in any case. Without any previous experience with this tactic in a forum game I don't have a baseline to compare to.

As an actual answer to your question: While his answer does have a fair bit of fluff in it, I don't get the feeling that he is uncomfortable talking about his alignment[ which I think is the pertinent point. The "No, I am not" is quite direct.
First he says townies just say "no" which my response didnt fit into.
Then he says I am town because I was relaxed.
Then says i was direct.

The "No, I am not" was referring to be dirt or froth, and was clearly written in jest; thus satisfying his sarcastic criteria for scum.

All up this reads as bullshit to justify a compromising position.
This is not enough to secure a vote, but is a negative point none-the-less.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...)
/rant
Ironic, because technically I did this before disappearing. Why wasn't I called out for this??

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?[/QUOTE]I suppose if Aquanim was scum hes not putting pressure on him because Scib focus was Corazon.
However, in general I like this question.

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:17 GMT
#190
On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I've been messing around a bit and not committing much because I'm concerned, having looked at the players who are yet to post, that if we present them with a fait accompli lynch on Corazon they'd just sheep and we'd learn nothing about them today. I figured that by holding off on my vote and being able to address them from a position of neutrality I might be able to get something out of them.
This is a really smooth response by the way. I'm going to add this to my memory banks with your permission.

Having said that: it did appear to me that you were more infatuated talking to Rean when Corazon was happening. The above does not do anything to address the non-committment Thrawn was referring to as you are talking about a position POST-HOC.

For the same reason, I voted Rean above for the purposes of running a second wagon and introducing a choice. I'd cheerfully vote Corazon as well, his failure to actually vote for sciberbia despite his constant accusations is pretty damning.
I will wait for a response from Rean before weighing in on that argument.

Regarding Corazon: I find it odd you think that is damning . Unless both are scum, I find that action to be indicative of town.
You do not appear to think Sciberbia is scum; which perplexes me why you would think Corazon is thus, scum.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:21 GMT
#193
On November 20 2013 17:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
Another thing I didn't like about this defense is that he was neither suspicious of my motives, nor did he get angry, frustrated, annoyed, etc at me for being a bad townie via my reading him incorrectly. I was very emphatic about my opinion that he is mafia and I expect him to reply with either of the two responses I just mentioned.

Quote of the day.

+ Show Spoiler +
Its interesting the case on Rean only came out after I gave some meta speil on Aquanim being proactive
I gotta get some credit mason man


##Vote: Aquanim

Choo-Choo !!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:24 GMT
#194
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:30 GMT
#197
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting.
You have got to be joking me?

As we are speaking generically: the only time scum have an easy time giving scum reads is if they are referring to their own team. Otherwise, they are *always* lying - due to calling town players that they *know* are town... scum.

Mafia is a game of psychology and motive. The whole point is to catch mafia in a lie that a townie would not execute. Scum giving bullshit scum reads is meant to be one of those avenues.

I dont have a clue how you get this so wrong?


On November 20 2013 16:48 Aquanim wrote:
I'm about as confident that Rean is scum as Corazon, perhaps a little less, which is compensated by the advantages of opening up a second wagon.
Why feel the need to build a case and *vote* for Rean instead of produce a series of questioning aimed at discerning his alignment?

If anything a vote/case on him could make him harder to read as it puts him on the alert??
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:33 GMT
#199
On November 20 2013 17:29 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?

I'm asking him about his thought process.
I find that "held back" is a very interesting way to describe Sciberias play up to that point, imo he was one of the most direct poeple at that time.
OK, thanks.

Have you read the whole thread?

Is it safe to assume that because you are "intrigued" by Rean, you are in any agreement with Aquanim case on Rean?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 08:34 GMT
#200
On November 20 2013 17:31 Aquanim wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 17:30 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:21 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
Sure, Rean asked me for a scum read. That's the easiest and least insightful question you can ask, scum can do that without any effort at all. I don't see any indications that Rean is putting actual effort into his scum hunting.
You have got to be joking me?

As we are speaking generically: the only time scum have an easy time giving scum reads is if they are referring to their own team. Otherwise, they are *always* lying - due to calling town players that they *know* are town... scum.

Mafia is a game of psychology and motive. The whole point is to catch mafia in a lie that a townie would not execute. Scum giving bullshit scum reads is meant to be one of those avenues.

I dont have a clue how you get this so wrong?

You've misunderstood me. It's an easy question for scum to ASK. That is, if Rean is scum, he can very easily just ask someone for their scumreads.

Correct, thats me jumping back into the mindset of posting before thinking.
My bad.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:02 GMT
#207
Thrawn

I don't think aquanim drum can be beat anymore till the remaining players chime in.

Same can be said for Corazon.

I got nothing more to say myself
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:09 GMT
#210
Aquanim
You did newbies with Corazon

Regarding
Him being so butthurt someone copied him

Null, town or scum tell
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 20 2013 09:09 GMT
#211
Thrawn

I don't think aquanim drum can be beat anymore till the remaining players chime in.

Same can be said for Corazon.

I got nothing more to say myself
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