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In reply to this:
On November 24 2013 11:39 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 10:48 cDgCorazon wrote:
EBWOP: ^Scum mindset^ (he's hiding under his claim) If you really think I play scum by claiming doctor and posting next to nothing to look towny you are actually dumb and have not done what I asked. Like I said, go read actual games I have played in.
The town meta of players typically does not change dramatically from game to game in my experience. This is not Holy's town meta.
The scum meta of players DOES change from game to game, to avoid being similar to their last game and caught in this way. If Holy played scum exactly the same way as he played last time that would just be stupid.
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As for the doctor claim, I think it's at least possible that we don't have a doctor this game. Hell we might not have any roles, in keeping with the "Back to the Basics" theme.
It would take some balls for Holy to claim it without knowing that, but I don't think it's even nearly impossible.
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...bah, no. I can't really vote him. Either he dies tonight or there's at least the possibility he gets a save.
##Unvote
Let me think about this.
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On November 24 2013 17:28 sciberbia wrote:
Lurking through the rayn lynch is by far the single scummiest thing anybody has done this entire game. I can't even imagine myself, as town, reading the 100 posts between pages 50 and 55 (the hour leading up to the lynch), and not posting my thoughts. That's crunch time. That's when the game is won or lost. It's when all the drama happens. The lynch was in question and everybody else online was vehemently discussing it, but JJD was just sitting there passing the time.
On the other hand, I can easily see scum doing it. Rayn looked likely to be lynched so scum probably didn't feel much pressure. There's no reason for scum to be posting with a townie lynch coming down the pipeline.
...
Dunno why it didn't quite reach my brain until this repetition, but yeah this is damning.
##Vote: JarJarDrinks
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If he'd actually been pushing the rayn lynch beforehand maybe that's OK, but it was all just him arguing back and forth with rayn - which is not at all the same thing.
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I am now reconsidering whether JJD or Onegu is the better lynch.
On some level I want to lynch Holyflare, but the odds that he can prove it if he's a doctor mean we shouldn't lynch him now.
Mocsta is town and the most active player in the thread. I will not be voting for him.
I hope some of you can read Chezinu and Alakaslam cos I know for sure I can't. (With any degree of certainty, anyway.)
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@Chezinu: Why do you want to lynch Sciberbia today?
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On November 25 2013 07:27 Bereft wrote:
alright guys let's get our shit together. if you guys can't rally behind a mocsta or HF lynch, I think we should lynch chezinu if he doesn't come back into the thread with something useful. I'm not keen to lynch JJD or onegu over chezinu right now.
You think the Jampidampi slot's a better lynch over the Rean one?
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@Alakaslam: Just so you know, you're replacing into a slot I really wanted to lynch. I'll try and give you time to read the game and make your own reads - I'd really appreciate it if you post your thoughts long enough before the lynch I can think about them.
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@Onegu: How many games have you played with Mocsta in the past?
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On JJD:
On November 24 2013 22:45 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 22:33 sciberbia wrote:
@JJD
Also even if you were posting from your phone, why didn't you at least give a brief opinion on what you thought about the lynch? Were you confident about a rayn lynch the entire time? If so why didn't you try to reassure everyone that it was the right move? Because it looked like the lynch was a sure thing so I saw no need. When I saw cora unvote and it looked like there might be a mislynch, I was pissed and posted to show that. I just didn't have the time to post a whole lot. And why would I need to since I posted a whole ton of shit against rayn throughout the day? My opinion about the lynch should have been clear.
"Rayn lynch looked like a sure thing"
Bleh... this is slightly believable. I only got really concerned about whether we were going to reach majority in the last hour or so.
"Posted a whole ton of shit against Rayn throughout the day"
This is... sort of true and sort of not. The stuff which JJD posted about Rayn during the day was more along the lines of "shout at Rayn about his inconsistencies" rather than "convince anyone else that Rayn is scum":
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2013 00:39 JarJarDrinks wrote:
So Rayn,
Jampi is scummy because he didn't jump on a vote for you when you made yourself so lynchable.
And Mocs is scummy because he did jump on a vote for you for that exact reason
Am I getting that right??? On November 22 2013 01:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 00:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 22 2013 00:39 JarJarDrinks wrote:
So Rayn,
Jampi is scummy because he didn't jump on a vote for you when you made yourself so lynchable.
And Mocs is scummy because he did jump on a vote for you for that exact reason
Am I getting that right??? No you are not getting that right. But it's irrelevant. Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:7 are needed to vote, and the closest person to 7 is Rean.
There is more information to be gained from a Rean lynch/mislynch than a no-lynch.
Do you honestly think you can say enough people for who-ever your counter wagon is?
If not, the townie thing to do is secure a Rean lynch - whether you like it or not. On November 21 2013 23:52 Mocsta wrote:
You know what Rayn.
I think we should oblige.
##Unvote
##Vote: Rayn I knew you would claim scum. <3 I don't even care if you lynch me but i suggest everyone looks at this post when i flip!!! I just proved you wrong. And you are going against what you suggested ~10min ago. Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Jampidampi that's a really bad post and there was no townie motivation behind my last 10 posts (towards anyone else than Mocsta - who i should probably realize is incapable to see the point anyways, my bad) because that's what i was trying to do.
I can't find any reasons why you should have not voted for me unless you know i am town and therefore scum. Explain what I'm misinterpreting please On November 22 2013 01:35 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 01:07 Onegu wrote:On November 21 2013 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 21 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:So hey, you might want to explain this Aquanim. Here you seem to be agreeing with this: On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
...
2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.
this. If I see one more person go "X/Y/Z is scumteam GG NO RE #MANNERMULES"... (especially when X/Y/Z are each and every one town...) /rant Then you proceed on voting for your non-top scumread. On November 21 2013 08:34 Aquanim wrote:
Once again, my scumread on Rean was of almost equal strength to that which I had on Corazon. Why the contradiction? This is the best case in this game. Because this is terrible rayn, remember how I was talkimg about if rayn believes in his cases or not makes him scum or town. Yeah there is no way rayn believes this. After in WC I didnt vote my top scumread as town, he knows town do this, yes oir reasons are different but aquas reason is believeable as it was less than 12 hours into day 1. Yeah I commented on how terrible the case was too. Let alone the best case in the game. ANd furthermore, how good of a case can it be if he now doesn't think aqua is scum anymore. On November 22 2013 02:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I could possibly vote for Aquanim aswell Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 23:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would vote for Aquanim over Rean anyday but i don't think he is scum either. Unless thrawn is town, in which case he should swithc his vote on Aqua/Bereft/Onegu right now because those are the scummiest people in thread. Why even suggest aqua again? Just go ahead and say it: You'll vote for for anyone that keeps yourself or Rean from being lynched. On November 22 2013 04:28 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Just because look at the last line.
At the time of the comment Mocsta was dead set on lynching me, had his vote on me and wouldn't listen to any other argument. So the " even if we aren't currently skydiving" is a laughable misrepresentation from JarJar. What are you talking about? You were trying to imply that Moc asking this question: "Have you been mislynched before?" meant the same as: "Is this the first time you're being mislynched?" That is a total misrepresentation. etc.
To emphasise my point: there is only a single instance of JJD talking to anyone but Rayn during this time period and I don't find it a very convincing effort to persuade Corazon:
On November 22 2013 05:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 05:00 cDgCorazon wrote:
This lynch is so stupid. I can't believe you guys let Mocsta take you by the balls and vote out Rayn just because they were having an ego fight. I wanted to lynch Rean. Rayn decided jump on the grenade. And now he pretty much wants to lynch ANYONE else. I think him "marytring" himself is bullshit. As evidenced by the fact that he only kept his vote on himself for a little bit and unvoted as soon as Onegu voted for mocsta so he could see if he could get people to rally behind that lynch. Even though he had just said 8 minutes prior "I actually wanna get lynched and i am willing to lynch myself"
Now the question I have to ask myself is: "Could JJD, as town, see his play here as being pushing a Rayn lynch?". My answer is "somewhat unlikely, but not impossible". After all, he is posting about Rayn - my problem is that he's almost entirely talking TO Rayn.
I now have to examine Onegu and decide whether the odds on him being town are better or worse than "somewhat unlikely, but not impossible".
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On November 25 2013 08:24 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok, just reading from the vote post, I can see who I like and who I don't particularly care for. But could someone help me here;
Is jar jar drinks scummier than Mocsta or vice versa? Why? Should these wagons exist? Why or why not? I haven't got the full time period until lynch to be here and I kind of owe the first /in
Mocsta is playing the towniest game of his life. JJD is possible but not certain scum in my book.
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On November 25 2013 08:28 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 08:25 Aquanim wrote:On November 25 2013 08:24 Alakaslam wrote:
Ok, just reading from the vote post, I can see who I like and who I don't particularly care for. But could someone help me here;
Is jar jar drinks scummier than Mocsta or vice versa? Why? Should these wagons exist? Why or why not? I haven't got the full time period until lynch to be here and I kind of owe the first /in Mocsta is playing the towniest game of his life. JJD is possible but not certain scum in my book. Ok. So you would prefer there wasn't a wagon on Mocsta XD, but I have a question for you that will seem useless but it's not. Have you seen "Lifeboat"?
No I haven't.
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Okay so Onegu's case on Mocsta. This case really looks like Onegu just cherrypicked out every time Mocsta changed his mind about something, without quoting the posts in between that might have helped explain Mocsta's change in mindset.
Onegu played with a town Mocsta in at least the Game of Thrones (throws?) game, so I assume he has at least a passing familiarity with Mocsta's play.
I haven't the patience to deal with each of Onegu's points so I will pick out the most egregrious failures to fairly portray Mocsta:
+ Show Spoiler +Onegu claims that Mocsta gave no reasons for wanting to lynch HF. Being worried by a lurker replacing out was his reason, and he said it in the very same sentence. The point about "Now before he even checks my facts, he gives big town points to bereft." is irrelevant and I would even think makes Mocsta town. Even on somebody he currently suspects, Mocsta is still keeping an eye out for things that would make someone towny. This is the mark of somebody who is actively trying to improve their reads.
Oh yes this post, my favorite. JJD is still town. Bereft he doesnt know, but bereft did the same thing mocsta did the same thing with rany is scum, rayn is scum, its a policy lynch. And me ONEGU IS SCUM turned into onegu provided the missing piece on bereft but that is null because of formatting, into slight town read, with no explination at all... And then how in the hell did I ask him for forgivness? It hurts my head. Lynch mocsta please he is scum.
The town read which Mocsta gave in this post was NOT TO ONEGU. It was a town read given to Bereft. Mocsta's language was unclear, but the context from the last sentence in the quote made it clear that Mocsta could not possibly be talking about Onegu:
Bereft
Yeah I'm a little concerned went into a big spiel to justify rayn lynch.
Um not sorry about it. I'm not really sure the town motive to give that spiel as bereft wasn't under pressure to justify actions.
I'm not sure if bereft is a townie that wanted to policy lynch rayn but doesn't want to admit. Or is scum hiding behind policy and again doesn't want to admit it.
Inoe that onegu presented the quote where bereft thinks onegu case wasn't on me but Cora.. I have to think about it.
Iverlall I would say that tell is null because that onegu case was so poorly formatted abd constructed it's message was never clear.
Will give bereft benefit of the doubt and say slight town lean. If anything is not worth considering when people like holy abd onegu are alive
If Onegu thought this was Mocsta giving him a townread, he's not reading Mocsta's posts seriously. Either he's scum, or we just plain can't afford to keep him. The point at which Mocsta gave Onegu a townread was when I seriously started considering that Onegu might be town, too; though I thought the Bereft case was wrong it did display effort which Onegu hadn't shown previously. I again agree with Mocsta that Holyflare is my "favourite" vote because his play is just so IDGAF, but he's just not the right choice for today because doctor claim. As a general rule Onegu complains a lot about Mocsta not justifing each of his reads in each of his lists. I don't think Mocsta needed to or even should have - if Mocsta talks about every justification for every read he has it'll take bloody forever and will result in him playing his cards earlier than he needs to.
This case is so bloated with huge unnecessary quotes and plain not alignment-relative stuff it's ridiculous.
And finally, Onegu is by his own admission not available for deadline. That combined with his play so far (I think his reads this game are frankly bad) convinces me of this:
If Onegu is town and alive at LYLO or MYLO we are screwed.
If he's town I want to get his mislynch out of the way now. If he's scum there's no harm in lynching him now.
If we lynch someone other than Onegu and it's a mislynch our chances of victory become vanishingly small.
I'm still willing to vote JJD because I think he's at least a decent chance of flipping scum, and I'll see if I can convince myself further about him. But for the moment:
##Unvote
##Vote: Onegu
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Huh. Ordinarily a no-lynch would be a hilariously awful idea. In this case though.... maybe.
We are currently presumably at 8 town - 3 scum. If we nolynch and scum gets two shots we're at 6-3... which still leaves us with the same single available mislynch we have today.
Ordinarily a no-lynch would tell us nothing, but in this case it would really help with Holyflare.
...I'll consider it.
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On November 25 2013 08:29 Holyflare wrote:
Now aqua is doing the same thing? Is this game really that easy?
@Holyflare: Corazon, Thrawn and myself have the most experience with Mocsta out of the players here, and we're all telling you he's town.
We're also (with Mocsta) the four most active players in the thread.
Are you seriously contending that three of us are scum?
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EBWOP: Are you seriously contending that NONE of Onegu, Jampidampi, Rean and JarJar are scum?
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On November 25 2013 09:17 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2013 09:02 Aquanim wrote:And finally, Onegu is by his own admission not available for deadline. That combined with his play so far (I think his reads this game are frankly bad) convinces me of this: If Onegu is town and alive at LYLO or MYLO we are screwed. If he's town I want to get his mislynch out of the way now. If he's scum there's no harm in lynching him now. If we lynch someone other than Onegu and it's a mislynch our chances of victory become vanishingly small. I'm still willing to vote JJD because I think he's at least a decent chance of flipping scum, and I'll see if I can convince myself further about him. But for the moment: ##Unvote##Vote: Onegu I don't agree with this logic for lynching Onegu. I think our priority has to be to not get into MYLO/LYLO at all. If we lynch Onegu and he flips town do you really think we still have a good chance at winning? Let's say scum get off two shots (not unlikely). It would then be 5-3. With 8 players left we'd need 5 votes. So basically we would need every townie to vote for a scum 3 days in a row. I don't care who's alive at LYLO I think we need to avoid this situation at all costs. I think Onegu's case on Mocsta looks Onegu look significantly better and Mocsta very slightly worse. Most of the points weren't alignment indicative, but Onegu clearly put a ton of time into it even when it's clear he may very well be lynched anyway. Also he has done a pretty good job convincing me that he may actually think Mocsta is scum, just by the way he takes so much issue with Mocsta's vote switches etc.
I've played in a game town won from 4-3 LYLO before, because we eliminated the townies who wouldn't be able to work together first. But I see your point.
Do you disagree with me that Onegu's cherrypicked Mocsta's posts to unfairly emphasise that Mocsta's reads change?
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@Bereft:
In reference to your first quote, I don't see how trying hard to analyse the thread can possibly have "no reason".
As for the second, he's trying to give other people who may not be as familiar with certain player's metas an idea of said metas. It's not his most productive post, but come on; it's one post in a 14-page filter. They don't all have to be gold.
As for the last one, Mocsta threatening people, calling them scum based on single posts, and temporarily flip-flopping around on reads is just his style. As town, he went from a town-read on me to threatening to vigilante-shoot me on the first night of TL Mafia LX based on some ridiculous interpretation of a single post I'd made 24 hours or more earlier. I'll try to find some more easily-read examples for you.
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Did anybody else notice that about halfway through Onegu's case on Bereft he starts talking to Bereft instead of about Bereft? It's a shitty kind of scumtell but it's my experience that scum are more likely to try to convince their targets that they are scum, rather than to convince the rest of the thread their target is scum.
(This is the same problem I have with JarJar's posts re. the Rayn lynch, by the way.)
That is the part of the case where Onegu is talking about what Bereft said about Onegu which partly explains it - but I don't think that Bereft's posts were particularly intended to be answered by Onegu.
I could do with some comments on this observation (aka tell me if I'm full of shit, I'm starting to dig deep into the BS now).
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EPT
