EPTTL Mafia LXIII: Time to Die - Page 17
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Pandain
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On November 23 2013 10:24 Koshi wrote: hmm rayn was town. I feel really bad now. mafia depression. damned. Don't feel bad the game will be so much more enjoyable now | ||
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On November 24 2013 00:57 supersoft wrote: Every protection avaliable on Mig btw. I think that shouldnt be worth mentioning, but i just want to make sure. Eh actually I would say no. His reads are fine town can solve it afterwards. Worried about suicide bomber ruining things. | ||
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On November 24 2013 08:57 Grackaroni wrote: Pandassss Mason me tomorrow if I'm still alive.  | ||
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On November 24 2013 04:37 austinmcc wrote: IF YOU ARE TOWN, PLEASE STOP BEING DUMB. THERE ARE 4 MAFIA. IF WE KILL ONE THEIR KP GOES FROM 2 TO 1. IF YOU WANT TO DIE AND ARE TOWN, DO IT AFTER WE KILL A FRIGGIN' MAFIA. YOU ARE 100% NOT A GUARANTEED LYNCH TOMORROW, AND THRAWN IS A NICE LYNCH AND I THINK WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM OVER YOU REGARDLESS OF YOUR ALIGNMENT AND WHAT YOU DO. Nobody cares either way about your "woe is me, kill me now" posting. So knock it off. We find mafia, we lynch mafia. Then you can commit seppuku or whatever you want. You have no idea what happens tonight, who dies, whether if ss is town he ACTUALLY BLOCKS SOMETHING AND WE ALL SPLOOGE AND HIGH FIVE AND THE GAME IS SUPER SUPER NICE TOMORROW. Also why do we know there are four mafia. Or is that extremely common | ||
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Lynch Risen | ||
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1. You say that I'm scum because I think that you being afk doesn't mean anything. Then you say that being afk doesn't mean anything . Scum 2. You seemed to adapt extremely well to the thread in the beginning. Now you're claiming to be "completely" overwhelmed? Very few people are actually completely overwhelmed. And you don't seem to be the guy, with all your early contributions, to be one of those people. Probably fake and somewhat scum 3. I thought you were very town early on and asked BC in our m9ason qt. Surpsisingly, he gave a very hesistant response and said "yeah, he's doing well establishing himself." Suspicious 4. BC was literally going after Grack like so hard. You think he's really scum? 5. Mocsta was going after Grack really hard. You think he's really scum? You think scum team just hated Grack or something? Even if they thought he was playing so poorly they had to bus him, why would you lynch him over others who I'm sure can be better then grack. Overall that post is very fake | ||
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On November 20 2013 04:21 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Blazinghand ##Vote Pandain I'll gladly switch back/support either for the double lynch tomorrow. However, I'm much more convinced on Pandain than BH atm. I could believe BH is an assassin. I can't believe Pandain is anything but scum. + Show Spoiler + So first, there is the whole "Vote Kush for mayor" that people were getting on Grack's case about. Pandain was right there with him, the Grackapack going strong. Except it wasnt that strong, and Pandain was just trolling around for the hell of it. The trolling isnt really alignment indicative, but following Gracks lead is. Consider how hard Mocsta pushed Grack, and now BH is doing the same. (BC too, but I'm not convinced he's scum) Pandain's early game hesitance to call Grack scum looks fishy: Except me and Grack had already informally planned to campaign for Kush, see before the game. I was going to make a post for Kush, in fact I was in the process of making a post, just mine was longer so it took longer to post. Plus I would do it as either alignment because Grack is my friend On November 16 2013 03:30 Pandain wrote: To give my feedback on Grack: I do think he's very suspicious, but I would have imagined him to at least be doing some sort of analysis as scum. I mean he's definitely playing anti-town but I don't think it makes him scum. My advice would be to look for someone other then Grack who's more inherently scummy rather then just suspicious. I will be able to ascertain Grack's alignment by day two. This is stupidly early to be planning your day2 mislynch, but considering that scum dont actually get to plan a mislynch Day 1(short of electing scum into the mayor position) I'm not ruling it out. At any rate, this is scummy to be keeping options open like this where he has carte blanche to accuse Grack. What? How is this anything? I didn't know Grack's alignment, I still didn't know until after BC flipped and now I'm confident he's town. I'm not going to just say he's scum if I don't know if he was. I thought I was pretty qualified to comment on his alignment based on meta and I was getting an uneasy feeling and thus was sharing it with the thread. He's trying to "confirm" himself town: On November 16 2013 03:11 Pandain wrote: I'm wondering if I should run for mayor if I can confirm myself as town mmmm I dont know what this refers to. Maybe the mason bit? Why would he think that confirms him as town? Especially with the number of masons floating about. There is no way for this to confirm anyone imo and the fact that he's trying to use this as evidence that he's town is scummy. VE pointed it out during the night: On November 17 2013 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote: In this post Pandain slips that he knows that scum only have one mason. You're welcome guys. I'll be back before dawn. I misread thread and didn't realize that mafia has masons. So that was my way of confirming myself as town. I wouldn't bullshit a lie as scum anyway because bullshit lies = scum, so this also doesn't mean anything. On November 16 2013 09:01 Pandain wrote: While I like that and think it shows town, I'm going to reread OP and then thread and then decide who to mason I'd like to confirmation-bias this post into "Look at all the activity I'm (planning on) doing. I'm so town!" On November 16 2013 15:03 Pandain wrote: Posting your notes why? Trying to show your townie mess? Now scum can react to your notes mig Scum-slips aren't supposed to be a thing...but Pandain knows mig is town based on this post. No I was pointing out the fallacy of a town mig posting his notes. First, here's pandains early read on storr On November 15 2013 12:02 Pandain wrote: Mocsta I disagree with you. I think Storr could be scum, but it's not certain yet and your reasons are pretty weak. You say he plays the noob card, but he did it in regards to "why not vote a noob like me mayor  " which doesn't help his cause which is what scum would normally do. Not inconceivable he just did it inherently but doesn't mean he's scum for that. Second I think you nitpick too much, he said he was still going to hunt for scum, hunt for scum is the same as hunting even when he said RNG, I think that's a bit too suspicious to say for a mayor canidateship. "I disagree with you Mocsta, but you're right" What lol. Yeah I thought he went too far. Guess what, he's scum and he did. I thought there were reasons for Storr to be scum but they weren't as strong as Mocsta made it seem. He calls me and storr scum here (moreso me, but still) + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2013 11:11 Pandain wrote: Yes I'm a mason. I don't think it's unlikely for there to be two, or even three masons however. I think Hopeless is scum and Storr is scum for continually playing the newbie card so much it hurts. Bolded useless and scummy because it's a statement that a townie probably doesn't need to make becasue he simply wouldn't have an opinion, why a scum would post that because he's afraid of getting called out. useless useless useless he's usually not useless To top it off he made an excuse for not being active later on. While that's not proof in itself it doesn't help him. On November 16 2013 11:13 Pandain wrote: Storr continually plays the newbie card and yet ran for mayor, then backed out quickly and keeps playing newbie card. Doesn't make sense to me unless he's trying to play a certain way. Like his first game with me he was semi-guns blazing. What happened to this game? We end up at this post, trying to direct yamato on who to lynch: On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote: Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor. This completely clashes with his previous scumread on Storr. The extended duration of storr being scummy results in storr being townie? Maybe I should go back to making excuses for activity and lurking... [red] I used the word "good" in terms of "good lynch". On November 17 2013 03:03 Pandain wrote: I think Rayn is scum, yes. I also now think Mig is scum. I think Vayne is scum too he's playing like in ##. If anyone were to vote those, especially the last two, I would support them. Downgrading my reads of Hopeless since I guess I'll wait more for him and also still think Storr is playing so weird yet need to think about what it means. So a bunch of stuff in this post. No detailed reads, Wish-wash on me, Storr is back on the table. Mig, who he inadvertently called town earlier, is now scum, and rayne/Vayne come out of nowhere as scumreads. This post screams scum to me. Pandain is all over the place and there is nothing to hold him to if he wants to pursue any other read, he keeps giving himself outs beforehand. [red] No it's a bunch of misinterpetation for you. At this point, I thought Mig and Storr were scum. You thought I thought Mig was town because you assumed I was scum and scum slipped that he was town. You also misinterrpeted me and Storr. I'm sorry that I don't give an abstract before telling you every scum read I have in regards to Rayn and Vayne, and if that's the only actual somewhat legit thing you have, that's not the best thing in the world. On November 17 2013 01:12 Pandain wrote: I think moc is very clearly town. These are the kinds of cases he makes which don't make that much sense. He's putting in effort too into developing his cases Association-scum-tell --> More association scumtell: (open nested quotes) On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote: No I think he's town but you should be able to tell I'm town by now Of note, Pandain has apparently come to the conclusion that Grack is town at this point. No I didn't, that was in reference to Mocsta who I thought was town + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2013 10:20 Pandain wrote: I still think Storrzerg is suspicious, I simply found others who I might be more confident in. Namely Vayne and Rayn and BH. Yes I do think he would. That's the worst thing and why I favor a Rayn lynch first. However even though I think he would do it as town I find it distinctly anti-town as it would motivate trackers to counter-claim. That is what I'm caught up on and he never addressed it. Mocsta in my previous games I think he's always been town. I don't know what his scum play would look like but it's not this. To be frank, bad reads with a lot of effort with weird arguments are making me think he's town. This is what he's done in previous games. Scum try to hide from doing obvious bad arguments and the Mocsta post was unforced and bad. All this is making me think he's town. And yes the effort does help him though I don't think he couldn't do it as scum. That was my first thought. re-reading him his non-analysis cases make me lean towards scum, especially this post but I definitely don't think he would have been a good lynch today or a good lynch tomorrow. I don't think he'll ever buss much because if he does he'll be alone by the end and a sole scum Mocsta should be easy to find anyway. Who knows when mocsta decided to use his vig, but this looks bad. "storr is still suspicious, but I have other scumreads. Scum-mocsta will be easy to find" Fast-forward to NK's, storr flips town to Scum-Vig-Mocsta and Mocsta has also been vigged by some awesome townie [red] I don't think this actually comes to a real argument so I don't have anything to say because it's extremely circumstanial and relies on you insinuating outside information. BH's tracker/assassin claim. Initially, Pandain is all questions about BH's claim: On November 17 2013 04:19 Pandain wrote: What is this then. You thought it was a joke? On November 17 2013 04:20 Pandain wrote: Is it a real claim BH On November 17 2013 04:47 Pandain wrote: He's literally said it's a real claim Rayn. On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote: So you think he's town and not tracker? Is that your position? He never states his own position on BH that I could find. There are some hypotheticals that allow him to say {if BH/then Rayne} but nothing concrete. At the next mention, BH is now scum: + Show Spoiler + On November 18 2013 08:19 Pandain wrote: BH needs to get lynched tomorrow. The fact he's just started to get really active at night doesn't prove anything actually. Scum or town BH would start being active now. Instead it's more important to realize he has been effectively afk during the thread with no real thread presence except defending himself and that is pretty unacceptable. His tracker claim is absoltely awful play as town and okay play as scum. He varies between being active and always posting whenever he's mentioned and then not posting at all besides. Which is pretty suspicious to me. While I'll agree the claim makes sense compared to his previous crumbs, he claimed 6 hours before mayor lynch would even be decided. Which doesn't make sense from a town perspective who wants to win, who wouldn't claim a blue role unless he was then going to do something with it. BH claimed tracker and then didn't do anything with it except with his defense. This contrasts with his Heavyweight claim where he did claim early(did he? Can't remember how early) and then he pushed and used his town prescence to get a scum claim. BH's claim doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Him defending his claim actually makes it twice as worse. He comes back night one and then has a scum read on Grack. Great. okay My reads on BH and Rayn varied greatly. At first I thought that BH was scum, and Rayn was scum. Then I wasn't sure but was sure one of them was. I'm running out of steam to finish Pandains filter properly, so some short points from pages 9-12 of Pandains filter: - I'm not convinced BH is scum, he may actually be an assassin. Pandain wish-washes over BH being tracker/assassin/scum and how all his reads are out to lunch if he's wrong about BH being scum. All the while he's confusing things by bringing up previous claims that BH has done without reaching conclusions. No I always had a conclusion, it was just wrong alot - Mig is now a STRONG town-read. Mig's notes should be taken down/privatized but he's now town for something that he was initially town/then scum for. Mig was scum until I found that he had kept updating his notes, and that made him a strong town read in my eyes - Finds meta reasons to show that Mocsta would not have bussed Grack, but Grack isnt a strong townread. Seems strange that grack isnt in his list of townies. Don't know what you're referencing, but I was never really sure that Grack was town before this. + Show Spoiler + On November 19 2013 15:11 Pandain wrote: I think Mig is extremely solidly town. His notes page he linked previously is online and still visible to actually see in fact. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag5xQ7DQZXySdGlfcWVTaE5qbUJ3Wm91TUFGSFJsS0E&usp=sharing The fact he is updating these without flaunting his notes or mentioning them leads me to believe they're honest notes. Furthermore, Mig doesn't pull these kinds of meta tricks nor would he have time to(in my opinion playing with him in Whiteflag). He has constantly updated them, changed reads, and the reasons are valid enough. Mig and SS are my strongest town reads. | ||
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Pandain
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On November 20 2013 04:21 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Blazinghand ##Vote Pandain I'll gladly switch back/support either for the double lynch tomorrow. However, I'm much more convinced on Pandain than BH atm. I could believe BH is an assassin. I can't believe Pandain is anything but scum. + Show Spoiler + So first, there is the whole "Vote Kush for mayor" that people were getting on Grack's case about. Pandain was right there with him, the Grackapack going strong. Except it wasnt that strong, and Pandain was just trolling around for the hell of it. The trolling isnt really alignment indicative, but following Gracks lead is. Consider how hard Mocsta pushed Grack, and now BH is doing the same. (BC too, but I'm not convinced he's scum) Pandain's early game hesitance to call Grack scum looks fishy: Except me and Grack had already informally planned to campaign for Kush, see before the game. I was going to make a post for Kush, in fact I was in the process of making a post, just mine was longer so it took longer to post. Plus I would do it as either alignment because Grack is my friend On November 16 2013 03:30 Pandain wrote: To give my feedback on Grack: I do think he's very suspicious, but I would have imagined him to at least be doing some sort of analysis as scum. I mean he's definitely playing anti-town but I don't think it makes him scum. My advice would be to look for someone other then Grack who's more inherently scummy rather then just suspicious. I will be able to ascertain Grack's alignment by day two. This is stupidly early to be planning your day2 mislynch, but considering that scum dont actually get to plan a mislynch Day 1(short of electing scum into the mayor position) I'm not ruling it out. At any rate, this is scummy to be keeping options open like this where he has carte blanche to accuse Grack. What? How is this anything? I didn't know Grack's alignment, I still didn't know until after BC flipped and now I'm confident he's town. I'm not going to just say he's scum if I don't know if he was. I thought I was pretty qualified to comment on his alignment based on meta and I was getting an uneasy feeling and thus was sharing it with the thread. He's trying to "confirm" himself town: On November 16 2013 03:11 Pandain wrote: I'm wondering if I should run for mayor if I can confirm myself as town mmmm I dont know what this refers to. Maybe the mason bit? Why would he think that confirms him as town? Especially with the number of masons floating about. There is no way for this to confirm anyone imo and the fact that he's trying to use this as evidence that he's town is scummy. VE pointed it out during the night: On November 17 2013 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote: In this post Pandain slips that he knows that scum only have one mason. You're welcome guys. I'll be back before dawn. I misread thread and didn't realize that mafia has masons. So that was my way of confirming myself as town. I wouldn't bullshit a lie as scum anyway because bullshit lies = scum, so this also doesn't mean anything. On November 16 2013 09:01 Pandain wrote: While I like that and think it shows town, I'm going to reread OP and then thread and then decide who to mason I'd like to confirmation-bias this post into "Look at all the activity I'm (planning on) doing. I'm so town!" On November 16 2013 15:03 Pandain wrote: Posting your notes why? Trying to show your townie mess? Now scum can react to your notes mig Scum-slips aren't supposed to be a thing...but Pandain knows mig is town based on this post. No I was pointing out the fallacy of a town mig posting his notes. First, here's pandains early read on storr On November 15 2013 12:02 Pandain wrote: Mocsta I disagree with you. I think Storr could be scum, but it's not certain yet and your reasons are pretty weak. You say he plays the noob card, but he did it in regards to "why not vote a noob like me mayor " which doesn't help his cause which is what scum would normally do. Not inconceivable he just did it inherently but doesn't mean he's scum for that. Second I think you nitpick too much, he said he was still going to hunt for scum, hunt for scum is the same as hunting even when he said RNG, I think that's a bit too suspicious to say for a mayor canidateship. "I disagree with you Mocsta, but you're right" What lol. Yeah I thought he went too far. Guess what, he's scum and he did. I thought there were reasons for Storr to be scum but they weren't as strong as Mocsta made it seem. He calls me and storr scum here (moreso me, but still) + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2013 11:11 Pandain wrote: Yes I'm a mason. I don't think it's unlikely for there to be two, or even three masons however. I think Hopeless is scum and Storr is scum for continually playing the newbie card so much it hurts. Bolded useless and scummy because it's a statement that a townie probably doesn't need to make becasue he simply wouldn't have an opinion, why a scum would post that because he's afraid of getting called out. useless useless useless he's usually not useless To top it off he made an excuse for not being active later on. While that's not proof in itself it doesn't help him. On November 16 2013 11:13 Pandain wrote: Storr continually plays the newbie card and yet ran for mayor, then backed out quickly and keeps playing newbie card. Doesn't make sense to me unless he's trying to play a certain way. Like his first game with me he was semi-guns blazing. What happened to this game? We end up at this post, trying to direct yamato on who to lynch: On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote: Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor. This completely clashes with his previous scumread on Storr. The extended duration of storr being scummy results in storr being townie? Maybe I should go back to making excuses for activity and lurking... I used the word "good" in terms of "good lynch". On November 17 2013 03:03 Pandain wrote: I think Rayn is scum, yes. I also now think Mig is scum. I think Vayne is scum too he's playing like in ##. If anyone were to vote those, especially the last two, I would support them. Downgrading my reads of Hopeless since I guess I'll wait more for him and also still think Storr is playing so weird yet need to think about what it means. So a bunch of stuff in this post. No detailed reads, Wish-wash on me, Storr is back on the table. Mig, who he inadvertently called town earlier, is now scum, and rayne/Vayne come out of nowhere as scumreads. This post screams scum to me. Pandain is all over the place and there is nothing to hold him to if he wants to pursue any other read, he keeps giving himself outs beforehand. No it's a bunch of misinterpetation for you. At this point, I thought Mig and Storr were scum. You thought I thought Mig was town because you assumed I was scum and scum slipped that he was town. You also misinterrpeted me and Storr. On November 17 2013 01:12 Pandain wrote: I think moc is very clearly town. These are the kinds of cases he makes which don't make that much sense. He's putting in effort too into developing his cases Association-scum-tell --> More association scumtell: (open nested quotes) On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote: No I think he's town but you should be able to tell I'm town by now Of note, Pandain has apparently come to the conclusion that Grack is town at this point. No I didn't, that was in reference to Mocsta who I thought was town + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2013 10:20 Pandain wrote: I still think Storrzerg is suspicious, I simply found others who I might be more confident in. Namely Vayne and Rayn and BH. Yes I do think he would. That's the worst thing and why I favor a Rayn lynch first. However even though I think he would do it as town I find it distinctly anti-town as it would motivate trackers to counter-claim. That is what I'm caught up on and he never addressed it. Mocsta in my previous games I think he's always been town. I don't know what his scum play would look like but it's not this. To be frank, bad reads with a lot of effort with weird arguments are making me think he's town. This is what he's done in previous games. Scum try to hide from doing obvious bad arguments and the Mocsta post was unforced and bad. All this is making me think he's town. And yes the effort does help him though I don't think he couldn't do it as scum. That was my first thought. re-reading him his non-analysis cases make me lean towards scum, especially this post but I definitely don't think he would have been a good lynch today or a good lynch tomorrow. I don't think he'll ever buss much because if he does he'll be alone by the end and a sole scum Mocsta should be easy to find anyway. Who knows when mocsta decided to use his vig, but this looks bad. "storr is still suspicious, but I have other scumreads. Scum-mocsta will be easy to find" Fast-forward to NK's, storr flips town to Scum-Vig-Mocsta and Mocsta has also been vigged by some awesome townie I don't think this actually comes to a real argument so I don't have anything to say because it's extremely circumstanial and relies on you insinuating outside information. BH's tracker/assassin claim. Initially, Pandain is all questions about BH's claim: On November 17 2013 04:19 Pandain wrote: What is this then. You thought it was a joke? On November 17 2013 04:20 Pandain wrote: Is it a real claim BH On November 17 2013 04:47 Pandain wrote: He's literally said it's a real claim Rayn. On November 17 2013 04:49 Pandain wrote: So you think he's town and not tracker? Is that your position? He never states his own position on BH that I could find. There are some hypotheticals that allow him to say {if BH/then Rayne} but nothing concrete. At the next mention, BH is now scum: + Show Spoiler + On November 18 2013 08:19 Pandain wrote: BH needs to get lynched tomorrow. The fact he's just started to get really active at night doesn't prove anything actually. Scum or town BH would start being active now. Instead it's more important to realize he has been effectively afk during the thread with no real thread presence except defending himself and that is pretty unacceptable. His tracker claim is absoltely awful play as town and okay play as scum. He varies between being active and always posting whenever he's mentioned and then not posting at all besides. Which is pretty suspicious to me. While I'll agree the claim makes sense compared to his previous crumbs, he claimed 6 hours before mayor lynch would even be decided. Which doesn't make sense from a town perspective who wants to win, who wouldn't claim a blue role unless he was then going to do something with it. BH claimed tracker and then didn't do anything with it except with his defense. This contrasts with his Heavyweight claim where he did claim early(did he? Can't remember how early) and then he pushed and used his town prescence to get a scum claim. BH's claim doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Him defending his claim actually makes it twice as worse. He comes back night one and then has a scum read on Grack. Great. okay My reads on BH and Rayn varied greatly. At first I thought that BH was scum, and Rayn was scum. Then I wasn't sure but was sure one of them was. I'm running out of steam to finish Pandains filter properly, so some short points from pages 9-12 of Pandains filter: - I'm not convinced BH is scum, he may actually be an assassin. Pandain wish-washes over BH being tracker/assassin/scum and how all his reads are out to lunch if he's wrong about BH being scum. All the while he's confusing things by bringing up previous claims that BH has done without reaching conclusions. No I always had a conclusion, it was just wrong alot - Mig is now a STRONG town-read. Mig's notes should be taken down/privatized but he's now town for something that he was initially town/then scum for. Mig was scum until I found that he had kept updating his notes, and that made him a strong town read in my eyes - Finds meta reasons to show that Mocsta would not have bussed Grack, but Grack isnt a strong townread. Seems strange that grack isnt in his list of townies. Don't know what you're referencing, but I was never really sure that Grack was town before this. + Show Spoiler + On November 19 2013 15:11 Pandain wrote: I think Mig is extremely solidly town. His notes page he linked previously is online and still visible to actually see in fact. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag5xQ7DQZXySdGlfcWVTaE5qbUJ3Wm91TUFGSFJsS0E&usp=sharing The fact he is updating these without flaunting his notes or mentioning them leads me to believe they're honest notes. Furthermore, Mig doesn't pull these kinds of meta tricks nor would he have time to(in my opinion playing with him in Whiteflag). He has constantly updated them, changed reads, and the reasons are valid enough. Mig and SS are my strongest town reads. | ||
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United States12989 Posts
On November 24 2013 14:03 Grackaroni wrote: Actually you are right Austin. This needs to be explained. If someone claims they're newb while running for mayor that doesn't make sense at all. It's a contradiction in both how you perceive yourself in the game and how you want to play it. And contradictions, especially that kind, usually means scum. | ||
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What do you think about Oats? | ||
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