EPTTL Mafia LXIII: Time to Die - Page 123
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On November 18 2013 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also agree with Mocsta's post. Not that Spag was "shitting up the thread" but other points. Sure, some of what he says makes sense, but his approach feels so much like a dog who thinks he found a bone to me. Doesn't help that I consider Spaghetti the most townie guy in the thread so far too. Tried to get a read on Lonemeow through him too. The contrast between the two was fairly big as well. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 18 2013 04:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yeah, I'm around for a bit and this sounds fine. I need to do some work in mason chat too, but this is worthwhile.Austin, would you like to continue our little volleyball game from before? I have some time and I think it'd help both my own reads and my reads on yourself. I'll give you a short one for a warmup in Mig. I'm fine with your thoughts on me. You saw the same thing Onegu did, which mainly means I've been doing what I'm trying to do. Happy with that as your read on me at the time. It doesn't super affect my read on you, you have no need to curry favor with me as either alignment, no need to really call me out, so it's null that you just say what I did and general feelings on it. Mig I like this post - On November 16 2013 02:28 Mig wrote: Mig's thoughts on BC's case ---> pushing Grack forwards. To the extent useless grack is a problem, this attempts to remedy the problem and in a specific way (or at least the bit that points to pandain). Like that post.The first half of BC's case against you Grack is terrible and overwritten but he is accurate in saying you have been worthless this game. In white flag you figured out pandain was town very quickly and zerod in on Oats in no time. This game you have provided nothing. A couple questions, 1) besides bc who do you think is scum, and is bc your strongest scum read? 2) what do you think of pandain this game? Otherwise, lots of focus on mayoral candidates and what they're going to do. Don't love that. Mayoral race important, but it's not scumhunting and it's a great thing to allow activity while not really pushing the game anyway. I made notes to try and look back through for people who talked a lot about what mayor would do what or BH's claim, but not a lot about other stuff. Free activity for scum. His set of posts about mayors fit that bill. He DOES follow up with the mayor stuff, I'm thinking about voting x because he said he was going to lynch y, and I want y lynched because of given reasons. Stuff like this: On November 17 2013 00:00 Mig wrote: No I wouldn't say I am super confident BC is town, although I liked his pressure on Storr. But I agree with his 2 top scum picks, grack/storrzerg and I would prefer to see one of them lynched over VE's current candidates. Which is why I am considering him more strongly. But overall there's not much direction in his filter. Lots of little questions, but nothing in particular built on them, and so many concern the mayoral race specifically. It's an easy way to choose a mayor (not a scummy, but EASY), by picking one target of a mayoral candidate, saying that dude is scummy, and choosing mayor vote off of that. He doesn't pop back up when it's clear BC is out of the race, never had his vote anywhere but BC. For someone who was very concerned with the mayoral race and mayoral lynch candidates, he's utterly uninvolved in the actual election. I dislike that. Even if it's a timing thing, that's a lot of effort to put into asking mayors questions and looking into mayoral lynches, with absolutely nothing to show for it. Apart from that grack post, I like him a moderate degree for mafia. I would like Mig to speak more about BC as a whole. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
On November 17 2013 22:29 supersoft wrote: BC needs protection tonight. Medics on BC isn't this kind of a bad idea if mafia have a Suicide Bomber if your mafia, seems like a good play to get rid of a strong town, and get rid of docs and w/e else is on bc. I can't see why you as town would make this kind of a call with a possible Suicide bomber in the game Maybe this is some meta shit im not aware of, but it seems pretty silly to make this kind of a call.. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On November 18 2013 04:53 StorrZerg wrote: isn't this kind of a bad idea if mafia have a Suicide Bomber if your mafia, seems like a good play to get rid of a strong town, and get rid of docs and w/e else is on bc. I can't see why you as town would make this kind of a call with a possible Suicide bomber in the game Maybe this is some meta shit im not aware of, but it seems pretty silly to make this kind of a call.. No because it relies on mafia assuming medics follow supersofts advice which is far from certain. And that assumption has to be strong enough to losing a mafia member in the hopes of getting two kills | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On November 18 2013 04:55 Pandain wrote: No because it relies on mafia assuming medics follow supersofts advice which is far from certain. And that assumption has to be strong enough to losing a mafia member in the hopes of getting two kills I think I happily sacrifize BC and a Medic for one dead scummer. We can trade 2 for 1 anytime. Especially in earlygame guys. Remember, we have no real evidence at the moment. If one scummember dies, this provades an immense amount of information. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
its likely other abilities could be used on bc, saying only 1 for 2 seems kind of low. I was thinking it might be higher... Nosy Neighbour doc tracker | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
could die as well from this as well i mean when does this become worth it to mafia? to me it seems that if your mafia, and you make this call ss, you could possibly get BC (who may or may not have a role but is a strong player) Get 2 out of the other possible people who would come to bc that night. I honestly feel that it looks more like a 1 for 3 trade. Is BC life that worth? Or maybe this is a way to tie up docs on bc, allowing mafia to have free kp shots? when i had left yesterday, i was leaning towards scum bc. I'll have to reread, but this whole speculation makes me feel very uncomfortable with you SS. I had read your filter ss, and was feeling pretty comfortable with you till this comment. @SS why are you not more upset at VE for his lynch choice? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On November 18 2013 04:50 austinmcc wrote: Artanis, your assignment is holyflare I've given my thoughts on Holyflare before as per your request. HolyFlare, I'm more mixed on. I shared his suspicion on Rayn as well as his change in that read and could follow his thought process well, but there have been some good points raised about him, though I can't find them right now. I have a strong feeling he's town based on being able to follow his thought process and I have little interest in seeing him anywhere near the lynching block right now. To give you a bit more substance, I'll go into it a bit deeper. He started his mayoral election a little bit into Day 1 and got some flak for it from Pandain and Yamato, but it doesn't really phase him. After that, he opens up the offensive on Rayn which ended up producing pretty much the longest shitflinging this thread has seen. However, his initial reasons were sound and ones I shared. His comment of ignoring Risen sparked my interest as well, and he didn't tunnel him. The same post that accuses Rayn also includes a read on Hopeless. In the middle there's some trolly posts, which although seemingly insignificant indicate he's fooling around and enjoying himself. He's feeling comfortable and seems to be trying to figure the game out. Accuses Matt, and later continues on Rayn. This post in particular I actually find telling for his alignment. On November 15 2013 22:57 Holyflare wrote: @Mocsta's post/rest of the game (I think artanis said the same things I said about rayn at some point too?) I'm sorry, what, the past few pages have been literal reitterations of what I've already stated, how is this anything new?? I get if you agree with what I've said Here for reference: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2013 12:05 Holyflare wrote: fml I had to write this out twice because I had so many tabs open ~_~ @ rayn's post earlier: Here You claim that my case was in fact bad but then you agree with everything that I had specifically laid out within it, what gives? Did you just not read it? Clearly there were no good reads at that present time and for a mayor to be established reads must be thrown around, which is exactly what I was saying. Your choice of mayor is based entirely off if you agree with their reads? Why? You also debase the entirety of it because of the one line that said if "I failed to lynch my top scum readS". The plurality in reads assumes that one would live past day 1 and be able to use their double voting power as you cannot lynch multiple reads on day 1. There is also: You were scum partners with risen in heavyweight. You know he is crazy and will literally do anything or write anything to win. How can you be so quick to have a town read on him based off of a post? He has won world champs and also has the "best mafia play" award or whatever. To quite openly say you will not read him for the rest of day 1 is making me apprehensive to say the least. ____________________________________________________________________________ @rest of the town Also some other things that struck me as odd; Hopeless' start to the game: I've played one game with this guy and in that game (he was town) at the very start he was trying to contribute to current conversations and get things talking. This games start has been very lackluster from him. After asking VE about his past mayor games VE responds that he has been mayor once and he died night 1. By no means are they solid credentials in any terms. His contributions were just useless "won't vote for kush" posts. He then drops his mayor vote onto VE after hearing about his 1 game experience and leaves the thread. _____________________________________________________________________________________ I'm actually leaning a bit more suspiciously towards rayn right now; however I thought it was interesting to see these 2 posts just as I refreshed. + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2013 11:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: You get modkilled for not voting. :p What's wrongwith Oats this game? He's like a bit more dick than usually. On November 15 2013 11:55 Mocsta wrote: Oats baby. Read my case again I gave one of stores first posts from Hogwarts. A similar sized game. He came out guns blazing. The analysis was wrong. But more importantly it was there, unlike this game. Oats, shy are you so prickly this game. Normally you are obnoxious, but tidY you feel venomous. Why so angry? P.s. I'm more referring to your interactions with V.E Obviously no associative tells between unflipped players yada yada but I find it "psychologically intriguing" when people bring up similarities like that. Obviously if you are scum, the posts that stick out to you the most are your scum partners and so you can subconsciously repeat them etc. However, this is a lackluster point to say the least just something I'd thought I'd note. but to copy it and make it look like your own thoughts and then ask people for their ideas on it is kind of a pain in the arse, at least give credit where credit is due Scum knows that the people they're accusing are actually town, but HF sees an opportunity to bring up his suspect and wants to claim credit for it. He's happy to have it scrutinized. He wants to talk about his case. As the game goes on, his read on Rayn changes around the same time mine does. As scum, emulating a town mindset is one of the toughest things there is. The fact that his thoughts regarding Rayn emulated mine so strongly makes it difficult for me to think he's scum. His comments started all focussing around defending himself from Rayn, in contrast to his earlier game where he participated in a lot of discussions. He feels attacked and it's stifling his game. He's not comfortable under the pressure, which is one thing that has me worried. You could explain it as feeling forced to defend yourself, or it's scum that feels cornered. On its own, I would consider it a mildly scummy thing to go into defensive mode, but considering the rest of the factors I feel town on HF. I'd feel much better once he starts giving original thoughts on other players, though. What do you make of Alakaslam? | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 18 2013 05:09 StorrZerg wrote: Mad Hatter could die as well from this as well i mean when does this become worth it to mafia? to me it seems that if your mafia, and you make this call ss, you could possibly get BC (who may or may not have a role but is a strong player) Get 2 out of the other possible people who would come to bc that night. I honestly feel that it looks more like a 1 for 3 trade. Is BC life that worth? Or maybe this is a way to tie up docs on bc, allowing mafia to have free kp shots? when i had left yesterday, i was leaning towards scum bc. I'll have to reread, but this whole speculation makes me feel very uncomfortable with you SS. I had read your filter ss, and was feeling pretty comfortable with you till this comment. @SS why are you not more upset at VE for his lynch choice? MadHatter has claimed and said who he has bombed... | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On November 18 2013 05:13 Onegu wrote: MadHatter has claimed and said who he has bombed... Oh just read OP he gets 2 bombs and he only claimed one bomb placememt so I guess its possible. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On November 18 2013 05:19 Onegu wrote: Oh just read OP he gets 2 bombs and he only claimed one bomb placememt so I guess its possible. Have a guess who he put the 2nd one on  | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
On November 18 2013 05:13 Onegu wrote: MadHatter has claimed and said who he has bombed... still catching up obviously... | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
Ok no spoilers. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
On November 18 2013 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also agree with Mocsta's post. Not that Spag was "shitting up the thread" but other points. Mocsta knows me better than anyone here. We've played 3-4 games together. Spaghetticus I am finding you hard to read. Posts are verbose and complicated-- everything I expect from a scum spag trying to bamboozle the thread. Have a go at this: You haven't played the game for at least 6 months. VE has been playing for more than 6 months. 1/3 of the thread thinks VE is not only town, but a strong enough candidate to be voted mayor. Some of those may even be players that you think are town and possibly respect. Why would you try and smear his campaign? Is this guy really your best scum read that you are willing to shit the thread up to smite VE? I don't get a Spag that is town would do this... because I sure as hell know this is how scum spag likes to play. Mocsta knows how I write. I like to use flowery language, I like to be very precise, and I like to distinguish myself with comprehensive analysis. This shit is Spag101. That he would paint this behaviour as in anyway suspicious is massively scummy. It's the equivalent of accusing Kush of being too random to be town. He accuses me of shitting up the thread even though I spoilered the post, had a very small filter, and he later claimed to not have read it (and thus not knowing whether it was fluff or not). Claiming not to have read it is also contradicting his previous reply to my allcaps proposition that he read my case, to which he responded that he had. He also tried to make it sound like I was trying to get VE lynched, when at the time I was only trying to take him out of the mayor race. I made this abundantly clear in my case title and disclaimer, Mocsta did not have to click in the spoiler to find my intentions. Finally, he tries to claim that a town spag would not do this. He knows I'm a paranoid player, and that I usually try to cover the stuff the rest of town seems to be missing. I don't like covering ground other people are already attending to. He's experienced my town play and knows that this is precisely how I operate. I can't remember if I pulled a similar stunt in my one scum game, but neither myself nor Mocsta can recall. I am open enough to give the scum QT in which anyone can look for themselves, at which point Mocsta backed down entirely. His attack on me was malicious, and he did not believe his own words enough to even care to look in the QT I linked. + Show Spoiler + Perhaps he doesn't want to bring attention to how he operates as scum. I know Mocsta likes to exaggerate his claims a lot, but this was retarded and baseless. It's fairly obvious he wanted to discredit me and/or paint me as scum without justification, both of which are really fucking suspicious. He did not critically inspect the material that he was trying to look like he was critically inspecting, and that is scummy. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
cept this SB crap has got me caught up cause it really is confusing me.. i'd honestly like someone else to give an opinion on it besides SS Why would town SS make that statement? Why would mafia SS make that statement? What benefit does it really give town if a SB goes off on BC and at best we lose no one? at a low possibility 2 people, at high 3+? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 18 2013 05:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Ugh. I THINK I read him town. I look through, I see trolling, I see ... posts. Some letters and stuff. I pull out things like this:What do you make of Alakaslam? On November 16 2013 18:42 Alakaslam wrote: Nobody responded to spaghetticus's early big post, alakaslam responds to the followup, saying he'll get to it, never does. Often saying you'll do stuff and then not is scummy, but I actually read this townie, because this post is NOTHING but interacting with someone who most people aren't, saying you'll read his thing, and then never actually following through. I don't see that as a scummy missed promise (I'm gonna do this, I will give my read on x, etc.), but more a townie thing, here's some dude that wants comments, I will give him some comments, oops, forgot.Probably a length issue, I appreciate the spoiler. I will come back to this There's a lot of trolling, but there are lots of little posts that show...he's thinking about stuff behind the trolling? On November 17 2013 09:42 Alakaslam wrote: Nobody is really discussing stutters (who is super duper absent still I would lynch Stutters695. It doesn't matter.  ). Slam just claimed to want to run for mayor, gave an ACTUAL candidate, one nobody was talking about, but never pushed anything. He's noticing stutters, mentioning him, when who cares about stutters at this point. Seems like he's watching the game.When I responded to his trolly "I'm lying, are you going to lynch me?" comment by trolling, he just posted laughter. Seemed lighthearted, no need to follow that up if he's mafia, or if he wants to follow up he can just post more trolly stuff. Instead, he acknowledges it and no more trolling on that subject. I can't quite put my finger on much more, but I get a general ... aura of townieness from his posts. It's weak, and basically my read on him relies on the fact that he didn't do something minor that he said he would, which I've decided to read as townie. We'll do a quick one, LoneMeow. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 18 2013 05:32 StorrZerg wrote: Stahp.cept this SB crap has got me caught up cause it really is confusing me.. i'd honestly like someone else to give an opinion on it besides SS Why would town SS make that statement? Why would mafia SS make that statement? What benefit does it really give town if a SB goes off on BC and at best we lose no one? at a low possibility 2 people, at high 3+? Maybe there's a suicide bomber, maybe there's not. The role is there for a reason --> kill important townies through protection. The role is BALANCED, however, because it has a drawback. Scum lose 1/6 their team, we get to read that person's posts/interactions in a new light. They're 1 person closer to having 1 less NK for the rest of the game. It's not all reward, there's risk involved too. SS makes that post because he wants BC stacked OR because he wants BC protected (mafia first, town second). What matters is not anything about a suicide bomber. What you should be poking around, if you're worried about this, is SS's read on BC, exactly why he feels how he feels, and whether you think SS wants a town BC protected or not (imo). Scum dying is good for town. If scum happen to take out townies when they die, less good. But there are only 6 of them. Dead scum is good scum, and dead scum means less NKs later, good. But you don't know if they have a suicide bomber. You don't know if all SIX of them are suicide bombers, and going to all bomb people tonight and lose the game. And at this point, it's not particularly helpful to go "what if this" or "what if that." If BC and a bunch of dudes get blown up tonight, maybe you want to question SS. If he doesn't, maybe you don't so much. Maybe you want to look at SS's reads a little harder, particularly his read on BC. But ... trying to read SS's alignment because of what might or might not happen based on roles that might or might not exist is ... maybe not the best use of time, imo. | ||
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