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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
At least, wouldn't something concrete (rather than a vague comment that can basically be ignored as personal musing) be better for forcing people to talk? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Anyways Vanesco: onlywonderboy was a comparison post. I'm not defending Balla, a fact that should be clearer when compared to actual defense; I did not say anywhere that I think Balla's right. I also didn't say that Storr is wrong in suspecting Balla. Only that Storr's method of pointing out suspicion doesn't look good to me. Not sure about you, but I don't think I'm defending. Also, out of curiosity, why do you mention that onlywonderboy actually responds about Balla's post? If anything, shouldn't that mean that my post, which isn't about Balla's, isn't defending Balla? I'd like to understand your logic here. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Also, what do you mean with that "two posts after yours" part? The two posts I see are Obzy saying that it looked like owb was answering storr rather than defending balla, and owb talking about how spam is bad. Neither have much to do with me. On October 30 2013 11:26 Obzy wrote: Also, his mention of Storr's post might as well just be personal musing given how little it mattered, and it certainly didn't generate discussion. Sorry, not understanding what you mean by this sentence. Can you rephrase? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I think Balla is justified in calling me scummy (though I'm not scum). Van's comment on me defending Balla was inaccurate, so I wanted to correct him. Carelessly, I mentioned owb's post as an example of what I consider defending (actually disagreeing with the one who's doing the questioning) in hopes of making it clear that I was not defending. I can see how that looks like deflecting, and why that looks bad on me. And then, I was trying to get more people to talk, though that came off as asking people for their thoughts without contributing anything to town. It's just that at that point, from my perspective, no one was acting particularly scummy, so I focused on trying to get people to say stuff that I could make reads with. Hope my thought process is clear to you all. I'm town, and I know there's not much that I can say at this point to convince you guys of that. Thankfully, we have plenty of time for others to post, so hopefully I'll prove my innocence hunting scum once everyone else starts posting. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I think it's a bit suspicious how he manages to end his real life obligations and post so soon after he was called out for inactivity, but I'll try not to speculate on his real life. More importantly, I don't like his read on me. I know I've looked suspicious, but not addressing Balla is quite possibly the least suspicious thing I've done. It's not like there's a scummy reason for lumping one attacker with others and addressing them all together. Even poofter seems to realize that, and backs off a bit by admitting that I might have just not noticed Balla amidst the attacks on me. What's left is a post that accuses me, with a poor new idea. I think poofter was trying to defend himself form the inactivity complaints, and he came up with some random poor evidence to try to show that he's contributing. I'll agree that Jonny's case on Vanesco was pushing it. Van was definitely not joining a bandwagon; if anything, he started it with decent reasoning. And in all his earlier posts he seemed quite certain that I was scum, not much apologizing. Why push van so hard with a vote and leave barely anything on poofter? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I'm thinking of poofter as I say this, just go to your classes and contribute when you can please. And is there really a need to reiterate that I'm your biggest scumread? We know that. Storr's already going to post his thoughts, so a comment at that point me think you just wanna seem like you're contributing. It's not actually helping anyone. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
On October 30 2013 13:48 JonnyLaw wrote: @cake Nah, I'm keeping that opinion to myself for a while. I'm not telling anyone how to play on day one. Nyxnyxnyx is active in lol subforum. I expect to see him post in the next few hours. It's an awkward time for him. @storr If you've played or obs'd newb games you'd understand his concern. This thread looks active and that's an oddity from what i've seen in the last two games. Nyx, why is your first post here 3.5 hours after you were on another subforum? Looks even worse when your first sentence is about timezones, implying that you were too asleep to be on TL. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I'll repeat my first main point on you: it's suspicious that you even bother pointing out that I didn't directly address Balla. It's a bad point because declining to point out everyone who accuses me has nothing to do with being scum. I don't why, as town, you would try to pass that off as scummy of me. As for the Jonny misread... yeah, my bad. I read the first part of it where he just says "nyx is active..." and that stuck out at me more than the other parts, and I was waiting on nyx to post ever since. I did consider that Jonny was wrong, but I figured it would be a good idea to call out Nyx anyways since he'd been quiet ever since his first post. To E00e: I think the one-line thoughts in your first post weren't helpful. Without justifications, they won't be convincing anyone. If they're obvious ideas without explanation, there's no need for you to come out and say them (and it's not like you were bringing attention to new trains of thought, since most of the thoughts had already been said) | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
My priority is finding mafia, or at least a good day one lynch. Think it's more important than clearing my name right now. So without further ado, main reads after rereading filters: Tehpoofter started by jumping on me. Reasonable. But the reasoning he provided, about me not directly addressing Balla, feels like a way to seem productive rather than an actual contribution. I think he talks about outside matters too much for my taste; it just isn't helpful and I think that the only game-relevant effect is as an excuse for lurking. From then on, he's been continuing to attack me or explaining himself. His explanations are pretty logical to me, but he's also not being helpful. I still think there's a good chance he's scum. Storr: It's great that he's trying to direct town to be productive, but he isn't providing anything that helps find mafia (seems helpful without providing the most important part). He's been around in the thread a bit too long for that to seem normal. And it looks like he's not going to be helpful for a while. He looks bad, he knows it, not much more to say. I'll be waiting for his analyses. onlywonderboy: I'm not liking what he's posted. Only person he's casted suspicion on is me, which takes no effort. He also mentions that I'm not super scummy for some reason. Meanwhile, he just tells us to look for other lynch options from nyx and July, but he doesn't call them town personally go looking for any lynch options. Might be mafia deflecting from a teammate or two, but it seems a bit silly to make connections with teammates already. It also keeps town from doing stuff, if he tries to move the conversation around without telling who he thinks should be talked about. I think it's likely that he's trying to look good and openminded without committing to any reads, which is scummy. Contribute more please. July: Very first post, he makes a point to call it his "town post". What. This looks like he only cares about looking town, not finding mafia. I don't think mafia would be dumb enough to say that. Then he states repeatedly that he won't make useless posts, but each one of those posts is useless. I don't even know what to think. At this point I'm feeling a poofter lynch. July confuses me more than anything. He looks bad, but I don't see how his posts help mafia. I'm waiting on Storr's actual analyses, but with his lack of content I'd settle for lynching him. poofter being useless after being called out several times is what I think makes him look worse than owb, but if owb doesn't contribute more I'd be fine with lynching him too. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
On second thought, though, he is lurking hard. He's not being helpful, and it's pretty easy to not show scumminess when you're not showing much at all. An okay lynch compared to no lynch. Odin, anything in particular you want from me? I can try to address any burning questions you have, though I'd rather focus on scumhunting since it doesn't look like I need to defend myself from a lynch right now. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
poofter: Sure, the fact that you attack me makes sense. I still don't like the "new evidence" you brought while doing so, and according to you we've agreed to disagree or something like that. From there on, your posts until your case on me make sense, but they also aren't very useful. To reiterate, I think you're scummy because you haven't contributed anything substantial, but you've posted enough that it could be mafia pretending to be helpful. I think I've already phrased it like that, and I don't like how you cherry pick my openmindedness to criticize while ignoring the more direct accusations I make. You've accused me of twisting facts, but right now it seems like you're flat out ignoring some of them. You look very scum at the end of that post. ##Vote: Tehpoofter I'll be back to switch my vote if this doesn't gain traction. E00e if it's the only thing going. July or Storr if enough support. Not sure what to think about nyx? His posts aren't good, and people seem to agree with that, but it also looks like he's getting something of a pass because it's similar to bad posting from a previous game where he was town. Right now, though, he's had two retracted scumreads, and suspicion on poofter. I like the suspicion on poofter, but I'd still lynch if it was the only thing that would go through based on his lack of good posting earlier. Storr... thoughts are the same as in my previous post. Sure, he's recognizable, but it's not much use if he's not reading people. His directing the town to be productive is nice, but it's also fairly common-sense. Seems like an easy way for scum to pretend to be helpful. I was inclined to wait for his reads, but there isn't as much time for that right now. Summary of my vote preferences in order: poofter, Storr, July, E00e, nyx. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I'm leaning more and more towards voting July atm. His last two posts have been absolutely useless, attacking someone new for bringing up another lynch target without doing a single thing to consolidate votes. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I do agree that Odin doesn't look great though; I can't tell whether the guy read the thread or not. He's said both that he's only on page 12 after he said he read the thread 4 times. And Odin seems to be rehashing old arguments for the most part. Pushing for an Odin lynch right now, though, seems more disruptive than anything else considering how there are other decent lynches. Also, I don't know why Jonny would be the first to defend me if he was mafia, since it should be more convenient for suspicion to stay on me. This reason doesn't apply to anyone else though since no one else can confirm that I'm town. So yeah, from anyone else's perspective I understand the suspicion on Jonny. But I don't think he can/should be lynched today. Most people seem to be suspecting July, E00e, or Storr. I'm not too sure about opinions on other people, but let's pick from one of those, unless a lot of people come out and claim vote desires that I haven't picked up on. ##Unvote Tehpoofter ##Vote: July617 I'm feeling that July's the one most people have their eyes on. Aside from maybe E00e, who I think has posted better than July. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Was defending me an easy defense? Jonny was the first to defend me, and I think mafia would have preferred to leave suspicion on me. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Jonny's early defense on me looks towny to me, because I think scum would try to leave suspicion on me as long as possible. Aside from that, I don't see enough suspicion of him so I think votes on him would be wasted. I suspect you because your posts haven't been helpful, and I don't like how you made useless posts talking how you don't want to post useless spam. And I don't like how you refused to help us consolidate on a vote. An yes, I think we should lynch today. I want a flip on someone, even better if we can hit scum. I have suspicions on a few people, and I think lynching any of them is better than not lynching. So, I wanna vote whichever of my suspects is getting the most votes so that we don't fail to lynch. The Storr defended comment was an impression I got, probably from posts like: On October 31 2013 15:45 Vanesco wrote: So I am now back and should be for a bit over an hour until I go to bed. Currently I am still waiting on E00e. I think we all agreed to lynch lurkers and he has been called out three times. First by July, no response. Then later by me, no response. Suddenly I vote him, and guess what a response. What has he done since, nada. All of the "reads" he has said he have either been: "i agree with", "i disagree with", or questions. At least on storr there is some activity by him when town wants him to talk, but E00e was called out and has gone back into hiding. I would rather lynch E00e at this point before lynching storr. where van, who I think is pretty trusted, would rather lynch someone besides storr. I'll leave my vote on July till it seems like someone else is close to being lynched (and I don't have a problem with the lynch). It seemed to me like no one thought well of July, and just haven't voted yet. Balla: Why do you have a town read on July? The thought process behind the no lynch? Also, Jonny's van case mentioned that I was looking more noob town. Every earlier post about me was calling me scum or questioning me, as far as I can tell. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
But no lynch would be a bad idea. I want a town directed kill/flip. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Right now the fact that owb and nyx both voted for E00e within 5 minutes of each other is making me worry about that vote. I'd still prefer July to die. E00e's flip can still be helpful though, which is why I'm not completely against that lynch. On November 01 2013 04:41 Balla24 wrote: Alright, I'd really like people to consider a JonnyLaw lynch. I don't really like the July/E00e lynches and the only reason i'd be willing to lynch them is because they are mostly lurking. As far as Jonnylaw, it's clear he's not going to get the votes on Odin yet he continues to push for him and doesn't switch his votes to the targets he says he's ok with lynching which would be the most pro-town thing to do since we're in majority lynch. I'm very confused as to why he wasn't ok with lynching Storr, when storr was lurking just as much as July/E00e/Nyx etc.. just because he thought "storr would post before deadline". I'm not sure how much people suspect Jonny right now, and I won't switch my vote to him except as a last resort to prevent a no lynch. And actually, I can somewhat understand Jonny's thoughts on Storr (unlees that post happened earlier than I thought). Storr had been posting semi-useful filler, and promised real content, so it makes sense to expect more from him than other lurkers. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I guess I'm suspicious of odin enough to vote for him if it comes down to him. I don't have a lot of trust for the current voters, but I'm not trusting a lot people in the game period so I guess there's no way around that. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
July's posts are erratic, but I can see mafia motivations behind his most recent one so I like the lynch. Odin's chaos wasn't that close to voting deadline, and I think conversation starting was still a good idea at the time. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Storr, July's voting/pushing poofter not me. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
No lynch would prevent town from getting information from a town-directed flip, while giving mafia a free kill and the ability to try the same thing the next day. Voting for someone with 0 votes makes it less likely for any vote to pass, leading to the same result. Plus, if anyone jumps on poofter with him (maybe he was hoping me since I've suspected poofter pretty heavily) that just divides town's votes even more. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I think split votes also confuses town, and makes them more desperate for any bandwagon to prevent a no vote. Might make it easier for scum to lead a vote on a target of their choice, even if town normally wouldn't consider that target a top lynch candidate. There are 3 hours till voting deadline, which is still enough for mafia to try and pull something. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
More recently, his votepost on July sounded too defensive to me. He harped on his own activity compared to July, which seems silly since you don't really have to defend inactivity claims when you can just start posting more consistently. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
He votes on E00e, which was just the largest bandwagon at the time. In other words, an easy lynch. It seems like the whole game he didn't contribute much. It's mainly his early game posts about meta stuff, followed by a rather indecisive reads post, that makes me think him a scum trying to fake helpfulness. Then his later posts don't make him seem better, since he just follows trends. nyx hasn't really posted anything I liked all game. He has retracted all his scum reads (on me, van, and e00e), while his vote on Odin sounded like he was just trying to not kill E00e rather than actually have an opinion on who's scum. And just as I'm about to post this I reread your post. Van, were you asking me about poofter rather than my opinions on other people? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
He talks more about real life than anyone else, as far as I can tell. I don't know why he felt that need, and I think such posts do little but excuse lurking. Then, he mostly posts when people call him out, which sounded defensive to me. He never really volunteered his own reads, and in fact he primarily attacked people who had attacked him (me, Jonny, later July). His latest defense/case against me, I really didn't like. His summary was, "So your end claim is that you think I'm scummy and am a reasonable lynch because I'm being logical, and pointing out your admittedly bad posts and I have talked about rl things early on. I think that line of logic I can't agree with. " which obviously isn't what I said. I thought his posts weren't helpful despite being logical, and I didn't like the thing about Balla that he added to his attack on my bad posts. Seems like he's ignoring my actual points and attacking me like my concessions were the only thing I posted. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I don't know why he'd do this as town. He gave a terrible case on van, as well as cases on poofter and odin. The odin case seems to focus on the reading thing way too much (I was personally wondering about that, but I wouldn't have called odin scum just for that. The poofter case was mostly thing I agreed with, actually, though I don't remember if I posted Jonny's points first. The formatting confused me at first, so I didn't care much for it before. If he's town, it's probably just a weird coincidence that just about all of his targets have been on me, and bad cases are just bad towniness. I'd also think that he was just applying pressure to his targets (or at least van) since I'm not sure he'd even convince himself with his van argument. I don't wanna just chalk it up to coincidence, though, and his case on van was flat out terrible (I didn't agree with a single thing he said) and calling that van case a way to pressure poofter is sketchy. I don't know why he'd do this as mafia. Suspicion was on me, and I think mafia would have preferred to keep it on me rather than be the first to defend me. Maybe he thought I looked town and wanted to clear himself after I flipped town somehow, but it seems like there would be better people to do that on, like someone who's more likely to get lynched. Maybe he wanted to implicate me, but he implicates himself just as hard, and I don't think that's a worthwhile trade for mafia. Just looks like weird/bad mafia play to me. So yeah, if I didn't have my role pm I'd think there's a good chance that we're both mafia (or maybe he knew we were both town, like we were masons or something. Didn't think too hard into this possibility since it's minor and not true). The alternatives don't make much sense. But since I know I'm vanilla town, if he was mafia I don't think linking himself to me would be helpful to mafia. I'm left wondering what town should do about Jonny and me... Killing Jonny seems to be the best choice. If he flips town then his actions no longer implicate me so unless I'm missing something we'd have to rely on other details in suspecting me. If he flips scum, I guess I'd be dead soon too, but 1 vanilla town for one scum seems like a good tradeoff for town. Killing me first... Jonny would seem scummy if I flipped scum, but I'd flip town which doesn't give much info about Jonny. Well, we have time until the lynch. We can get more information from night actions and the posts until lynchtime, so I think it would be best to look for and kill even more suspicious people in case we're both town. For what it's worth, I generally liked how Jonny pushed the town (like being aggressive at lurkers to make them talk and contribute). However, I don't like his pushing Odin so hard at the vote; his ultimatum sounded more sure of himself than he had any right to be: On November 01 2013 02:03 JonnyLaw wrote: We have 5-6 people here. Read what I just posted and tell me how Odin's posting helped or why you think it will help the town to win this game? If you cannot then vote odin. Plenty of other people made posts that weren't helpful to town, like our mislynch July. Also, he complains that the July lynch wouldn't get us information if July flipped town, but I don't really see how Odin flipping town would give information either. So to summarize: aside from that confusing stuff about him and me, I think Jonny's tone and direction were good and towny, but his particular choice of actions and cases are questionable. Pointing out decent directions that town should go in seems like it would be easier for mafia than making good cases, though, so Jonny would normally appear scummy to me if I don't consider that connection between us. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
...and Van's last post called me and Jonny scum together. Oh boy. I think the mafia would have had time to discuss things and avoid a knee-jerk kill. They might have wanted to make a wrong belief of Van's more believable, or they could just be killing a strong town player. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I'm not sure we should be looking too deeply into Van's death. He's strong enough of a town player that mafia might just want him dead even if it incriminates them imo. Also, exact opposite interpretations can be made of his death: either van's suspects are mafia and wanted to kill their accuser, or those suspects are innocent since they would never incriminate themselves by killing a vocal accuser like that. But of course, if the mafia knew the latter, they might feel safe killing their accusers and expecting town to think that they'd never do that... So vonthin, do you think owb is mafia? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
For example, anyone else have opinions on the Jonny/me connection he brings up? That's confusing me and one of the reasons I don't know what to think of Jonny. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Balla, can you clarify your reasoning as to why you think there's a mafia who's experienced in an active town? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I agree that Storr doesn't look very good atm. I don't know quite what to think about the comfort with activity argument because I've never read anything like it before, but Storr really hasn't been posting opinions on a lot of people. Even now, he's had far more posts talking about how town should be acting than about who he thinks is scum. Since his reads on me and July he's only talked about Nyx. I feel like if he actually wanted something town-favored done, he could have been finding scum rather than just directing town around. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
and all those posts that you say make you feel better about E00e come before your list calling him scum. What's up with that? At the time of the list you didn't say 50/50 or anything, you call him scum. He has made zero posts since then and now you call him 50/50? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Also, that "at least one of us is scum" part - do you think there's a relationship between us, or is it just that your reads are strong enough in your opinion that it's too unlikely for us to all be town? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
What's your reasoning for thinking Jonny is town? And do you think there's merit to Vanesco's reasoning that Jonny and I are scum together? Really wanna hear your reasoning for stuff. If you think you're bad, please at least try to be better. Posting simple opinions without much explaining just isn't very helpful. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
If there's anything in particular you find questionable about me please ask so I can talk relevantly and explain my thought processes. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Side note: Can you rephrase your post about van's thoughts? I have no clue what you mean by "TBH not much, and kind of expected." | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Explanations and reasoning? Please? I really wanna know how you think, and it would make everything you say much more convincing. Oh, and for the record, I don't think your reasoning on Storr was as bad as he made it sound with his dismissals. Points may not have been as relevant as I'd like, but they seem mostly true. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
okay. moving on. Storr you still there? I'd like a clarification of your post on Van's thoughts. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Can you stop worrying about "good lynches" in terms of who's not making helpful posts to town? That's not that hard to notice, and we have more quiet-ish people than we have scum. I wanna find and lynch me a mafia. Right now you're high up on my suspect list, because all you're doing is pointing out how town should play or if someone's not playing good town. Sounds like blending in to me without making contributions that help us find scum. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Storr, instead of asking for people to talk about, can you find people that you think are scum on your own? Show some initiative please. I've already posted my thoughts on owb, and they haven't changed since he hasn't posted for quite a while. I can repeat them if someone's too lazy to look through my posts I guess. Balla, why'd you express disappointment that no cop claimed? Cops shouldn't be claiming start of day 2. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I mean, he requested people to talk about, and then he gave an inconclusive post on one of them (owb) and flat out didn't post on the other till after I asked him. As I've been saying, feels like he's trying to post and seem productive without giving us any actually helpful opinions. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I've already made my opinions. poofter is scum, owb is suspicious. Nothing has changed those opinions since those two have barely posted since the last time I posted my thoughts. You're probably scum, especially at this point. Oh, and Balla scares me since in the off chance that he's mafia his position as just about everyone's townread lets him beat us fairly easily. I like that he's finally getting some pressure. But I don't really think asking about claiming roleblocked is a helpful way of doing so... | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
My thoughts on poofter haven't changed, but no one else seems to be talking much about him for some reason? Won't talk too much about him here since I don't really have anything new at this point. I'm just not sure about most of the quiet people: owb, nyx, E00e. They've all made some towny posts imo, even if said posts weren't that great. Out of them owb seemed to be trying the hardest to fit in without being too helpful, so he's my first choice if we lynch a quiet person. Nyx just feels too inexperienced so I can't really tell what he's trying to do, much less if he's trying to help mafia or town. I like that E00e is trying to reason and occasionally look for mafia (and his reasoning makes sense to me), but he just makes so few posts... Refreshed and saw Balla's vote on Vonthin as I was typing. He looked not too bad to me overall, I'll go look at him more closely. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Most recently, he's pushed Storr. It happened after Balla's post suggesting that Storr is scum, but he's also been mentioning Storr as slightly scummy in his lists. I'm not sure about his questions. Storr's decision to keep his pressure vote on July the whole time didn't seem like a good question topic to me since Storr was inactive, and July's posts weren't even good once he started posting. Meanwhile, I agree with Vonthin in that I didn't like Storr's heavy aggression against nyx. On my part, it's because I think being aggressive is likely to make nyx not want to post and attract more aggression for bad posting. As Balla mentions, Vonthin points out logical errors like the stuff with lists. Eh, those things should be called out. Bad logic is bad. I like Vonthin's reasoning about owb, I agree with them. I also think I might have posted similar things first. Sheepy maybe? Or backlash, since owb had been pointing Vonthin out multiple times. Well, I don't like how Vonthin voted right after I called him out on not originally posting a conclusive opinion on owb; if he was going to vote he shouldn't have needed to be called out. That attack on Jonny is almost pure sheeping Van, I agree. And then not mentioning Van's suspicion of me also make me wonder. Though if he killed Van to help push a case on Jonny, I'm not sure why Vonthin would make a post like this: On November 02 2013 10:42 Vonthin wrote: Only thing preventing me from voting for him is if he was mafia why kill the person who was putting the most heat on him? Wouldn't that make him even more suspicious then he already was before Van died? Hmm... upon thinking about it this could be to make himself not look as bad if someone points out the same thing. Oh, and his latest list called E00e scum, and his next post about the guy called him 50/50. E00e made zero posts in between. He explained it as not having read E00e carefully at the time of the list, but inconsistencies are inconsistent and shouldn't be ignored just because there's an explanation. Eh... on the whole he looks pretty meh. I don't think he looks much worse than other people without many posts. I suppose I'd be fine with killing him if we had to, but are you sure there aren't any better choices Balla? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
...is laughs the real reason you asked that question? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I mostly like the points on Storr, though that stuff about Balla/roleblocking seems to be a misread from Odin. I also don't like how Storr seems to want a lynch on nyx more for being bad than for being mafia. The comment about me/Jonny defending ourselves would make sense as a way to get us to be more helpful, except I'm not sure that was really necessary? Seems to be normal Storr guiding the town to seem helpful rather than finding scum to be helpful. Jonny doesn't actually seem to still be pushing Odin as scum, he was explaining his thoughts at previous vote. And Jonny's "hypocrisy" about rl stress seems really expected/normal from anyone. Jonny's anger/arguing with people actually looks decent to me, I can imagine a townie being frustrated like that and he generates discussion. I do agree that it's kinda funny how Jonny seems to be in a similar situation to Odin's day 1, but Jonny directly calls the attacks on him scum-lead. Not many points on Vonthin, I think they're valid enough. I've posted my thoughts on Vonthin already so I won't go into much detail on that. I need to reread Jonny's posts, I seem to gloss over angry talking so I haven't been examining his content that closely. And all that talk about roleblocking and claiming roleblocks just confused me so I hadn't read too closely into that earlier >.> Oh, and I'll update my thoughts on poofter soonish since I think he's a solid lynch. He and Storr are good lynches today, decently likely to flip scum IMO. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
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But anyways, the main argument against you so far has been your uselessness, which you're only just starting to change by directly accusing nyx of being scum. There isn't that much room for original arguments when the target in question is just sitting around being not helpful. Though I think I was the first/main one to say that your guiding the town rather than finding scum is scummy, since it should be much easier for scum to make some common-sense posts about town direction. And compared to other useless people, I think you're among the top because you've been making the most posts, meaning you're doing the most blending in and trying to seem helpful even when you weren't being very productive. Anyways, now that you've actually called nyx scum I'll look into that and reevaluate you a bit. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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I think nyx's lurking makes sense from a townie perspective since he gets shouted at for being bad just about every time he posts. Lurking is still bad. I'm really not liking his lack of explanation whenever he's asked. (like why he thought I, E00e, Odin were scum in the first place) On November 02 2013 14:36 nyxnyxnyx wrote: right now i'm liking StorrZerg for scum. few reasons: 1. vote has popular traction and is likely to take off without dividing town opinion 2. he's not as useful as he promised to be 3. if he's mafia, it'd be a good hit on a more experienced player. if he isn't, then ): i'd like to hear some impassioned defense by StorrZerg if possible. His post here isn't that bad, I think. Point one is probably based on the fact that he doesn't want to cause chaos and wants town to be united. Point two is kinda true, at least in that Storr wasn't being useful. Don't remember if there were a lot of promises to improve. Point three, yeah it's good to kill an experienced player if he's mafia. Sounds like some attempt at finding scum, even if he isn't good enough to find mafia without them being pointed out to him first. I'm uncertain about lynching him, since he hasn't been the only one who hasn't made good posts (first to come to mind is July). As for you Storr... the nyx case seems to be based purely on the bad posts he made against you. Sensible thing to do, but it doesn't change the fact that just about the only people you've talked about are the people you were directly asked about or the people who've made posts about you. Plus imo it took way too long to prod you into finding scum. Basically, the nyx post doesn't do that much to change my opinion of you (though if you're wondering, it's improved). Not sure what you can do right now to completely clear yourself in my eyes. Well, I've said about everything I wanted about you. I'm happy with a lynch on you today, but if you avoid a lynch and continue being helpful I might seriously revise my thoughts on you. Finally finished reading filters/typing that out, I'll get to the posts made since my last one. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Your logic's starting to make sense to me, something still feels off though. I'll need more time to think over if it's my fallacy or yours. I read and think too slow... nyx, please explain yourself when you post. One-liners with no explanation still aren't helpful. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Still thinking about your other points... | ||
cakemanofdoom
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On November 04 2013 03:20 StorrZerg wrote: Useless as a "scum tell" seems pretty ambiguous in this game. Sorry if the only way to be "Useful" in mafia is to say "your scum" yeah i call bull on that too. I assume the latter part is directed at me, for your inability to form your own opinions. I have posted a fair bit, and imo contributed far more than your making me out to be. So again, stop sheeping Cake. you just keep moving down and down. I was kinda buying this for a while, but I can't say I agree with this much in the end. Yeah, you can do other things in mafia that are helpful, but nothing's on the same level as finding scum and accusing them imo. Town wins by killing the mafia. Sorry that im trying to actively contribute between doing other things? Honestly pushing common sense is a null tell. I'd do it as town, Scum, SK, Blue. W/e I do it in RL and Video mafia as well. Can't tell you how many times i've scene people go off on the wrong thing, or lynch the wrong person because the common sense wasn't pointed out. Yup, you'd push your common sense as any alignment. So why not do something towny if you're town? I don't think you were so busy as to be unable to be town for so long after the game started, especially if you were able to post your common sense. Even Odin was able to form some opinions on people, and his rl looks like a total mess. Yeah and the last part, your looking for something thats not even there. Not to mention that's a weak reason to lynch someone. Cake your basically saying "storr your trying hard, your not actually doing anything, there are other useless people not trying hard, but because your trying hard you should be lynched" Do you see how stupid that sounds? No, after some more thought, I don't think it's stupid after all. Simply not trying hard doesn't mean much in a newbie game when we have several people being lazy/weak posters. Trying hard to fake contribute is scummy. Now, we can debate over whether or not you were fake contributing or actually contributing. I maintain that almost all your contributions throughout the game were "fake" and designed to make yourself look good rather than help town win. I'm not sure I can go into this part more than I already have. Too many of your posts had gone by without you doing the most important thing: catch and push lynches on scum. Meanwhile, those posts would have been really easy for scum to make to look good; you yourself say that you'd make those posts regardless of alignment. You ended up following town on July day one, before going back to your common sense posts. Now, you're pushing nyx. I had thought he was too nooby to tell if he's scum or just noob town. I'll admit, with his recent posts his lack of explanation is really grating on me. Regardless of his alignment I want more, though I'd imagine the mafia qt would shout at him to stop making posts lacking in reason? I am getting more comfortable with a lynch on him, though I think there's still too decent a chance that he's just being nooby. I like that you push him, though, and that you've stated a solid opinion now. If you live, I hope you continue with that. That said, ##Vote: StorrZerg I'm not particularly inclined to give you more chances right now. I thought you were a decent lynch yesterday, but I decided to give you more chances to contribute since you seemed busy. Since then, though, you've only counter-attacked people who pushed you first. I still don't see much initiative to try and find mafia. Oh, and to town for consolidation purposes: I'm also happy with a lynch on poofter. My argument with Storr kept me from updating my thoughts on him, though I think most of my old points still stand. owb and vonthin seemed to have done the most blending in out of people who haven't contributed much, so I think they're decent lynches. I'm opposed to lynching nyx, as I don't understand him well enough imo. E00e seems to be posting the best out of the quiet-ish people, though I'll look more carefully into him if needed. Odin seems like a mostly solid poster and Balla's a very solid poster, definitely don't wanna lynch either today. Haven't had a chance to take a close look at Jonny, but he just seems frustrated at town for not helping him find scum. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Anyways, I think how slow you've been to start forming solid opinions on people makes you seem scummy when you've been active the game since the start. That's my opinion on your earlier play, and I don't anticipate that changing. My overall opinion of you's only gonna change with your play from now on. But considering how much prodding it took to get you to post this much, I'd rather just lynch you. I think a townie would've been easier to persuade into producing more helpful posts. To town: I won't repeat my arguments against poofter again, but I'm glad that we're looking at him for a lynch. I'd be onboard killing him. Vonthin wasn't as noticeable to me, and I got more of an impression that he's trying to help. | ||
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##Vote: Tehpoofter Alright, I'll switch to poofter. I've already posted just about everything I've thought about Storr, but it still doesn't look like I'm going to get a lynch on him today. Update on my thoughts about poofter: Spoiler is summary of my earlier reasons for suspecting him. + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2013 12:21 cakemanofdoom wrote: I've thought poofter was scummy for a while, can we talk about him? More recently, his votepost on July sounded too defensive to me. He harped on his own activity compared to July, which seems silly since you don't really have to defend inactivity claims when you can just start posting more consistently. On November 01 2013 13:04 cakemanofdoom wrote: First thing about poofter was that he began attacking me by talking about the fact that I didn't address Balla. I think that's a really weak reason to attack, since Balla didn't bring up anything unique that would guarantee my lynch if I didn't address him. I think he posted that to sound like he's coming up with new stuff while just copying other people's opinions on me, the reasonable/easy target. He talks more about real life than anyone else, as far as I can tell. I don't know why he felt that need, and I think such posts do little but excuse lurking. Then, he mostly posts when people call him out, which sounded defensive to me. He never really volunteered his own reads, and in fact he primarily attacked people who had attacked him (me, Jonny, later July). His latest defense/case against me, I really didn't like. His summary was, "So your end claim is that you think I'm scummy and am a reasonable lynch because I'm being logical, and pointing out your admittedly bad posts and I have talked about rl things early on. I think that line of logic I can't agree with. " which obviously isn't what I said. I thought his posts weren't helpful despite being logical, and I didn't like the thing about Balla that he added to his attack on my bad posts. Seems like he's ignoring my actual points and attacking me like my concessions were the only thing I posted. His biggest scumreads were on me and Jonny. I haven't liked his earlier cases on me. His latest point was, once again, defending his choice to post about his rl. Guess what? I still don't like people doing that. Plus I had other points, which he refused to address. And I'm not sure why he brought up that I repeated my points and called me scummy for that... I repeated because Van asked me for my thoughts on him. My impression of his case on me is that he's just flat out being defensive, and trying to pick possibly weaker parts of my posts to make himself look better while ignoring anything he couldn't counter. His case on Jonny was that Jonny tunneled on Odin. Weak case IMO, focusing is a good thing since being too scattered with accusations probably won't lead to anything being done. Oh, and poofter's targets were still primarily people who attacked/seriously pushed him first. I don't like that, seems too defensive and like he's not trying to find scum on his own. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Though personally I'd rather keep the vote on poofter, in case there's a replacement found or he pops in at the last moment to avoid a modkill. | ||
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If we do end up switching, I'd prefer Storr as you might expect. After that owb or vonthin I suppose, but I haven't compared the two that closely. Wait, do we not have enough on poofter for a lynch right now? | ||
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Plus July had voted for him at that point. Poofter seemed to like attacking people who attacked him. So yeah, I still think Storr's scummy for all his earlier play and his later stuff doesn't help much. Trying to direct votes off poofter at the last minute is fishy to me, and stuff about the mod confirmation and "last minute" vote change could easily be scum gambits to look good after it was pretty clear that poofter was gonna get lynched. Vonthin for following Storr on that jump off poofter is also looking bad, though this one I might be able to chalk up to being convinced by Storr? Ehh still fairly heavily the suspicious side. Also, the fact that poofter was able to pop in at the very end to avoid a modkill makes me suspect that the mafia team might have planned from some point to get votes off him by having him stay quiet and make everyone else think that he'd die anyways. Are we holding off on talking about Storr, etc. in order to be openminded? I'm up for that too, but I'll make it clear that Storr and to a slightly lesser degree Vonthin are my top suspects. Will look into owb for now. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
From what I can tell, he makes a few inconclusive reads, and then goes on to tunnel Vonthin for the rest of the game. Making some extra random posts here and there. His cases on Vonthin aren't bad, but if Vonthin's town then it could just be finding a lurker, deciding he's an easy target, and sticking with it to stay consistent. On his own play alone... he looks scummy. I've said this before, but decided to revisit him since it's been a while, and now I realize he posted almost nothing since then. If there were more potential scum left I'd be very comfortable lynching him; still think he's a fairly reasonable lynch. I'll get to looking at pairs when I find time to do so. It'll probably be sometime after day 3 starts. | ||
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Oh, and I disagree with the fact voting onto July rather than Odin was weird. Now that I look again, his vote came after July's statement explaining his crap reasons for voting poofter. Plus, Balla and Obzy had just switched onto Odin. I think it's very possible that poofter was sheeping the super-towny person as well as the confirmed town, or he was simply expecting the tide to turn based on that. ...yeah sorry, I'm not really convinced there's much reason to suspect Odin. His posts seem pretty good, especially after he stopped being so drunk/stressed. For a while I've kinda just assumed him town to focus on other people. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
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Nyx... I keep telling you, please explain yourself when you do stuff. You simply don't have credibility normally. Also, I'd like if you address previous points. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
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"I have a nuetral opinion on Storr, early on he didn't say much but recently I like his cases and questions against people. He also had good answers to the questions I had for him earlier." Storr's response to your questions: On November 03 2013 04:28 StorrZerg wrote: 1. why don't you read my filter and then tell me why. I stated why i didn't move my vote. I could just copy and quote my reasoning, but it seems you didn't bother to read my filter so i wont. 2. I'd like to work on that, want to give me 2 people to start on and then ill tell you my opinion on them? And to say i haven't been posting reads is a lie. Just because i don't say "this person is scum" And as far as "who might be with Nyx" i can't answer that because he seems to be like a black sheep. I can however try and read other people and give my opinion on them. If there are only 2 mafia, and even 3 mafia its still a bit hard to try and nail out the scum team with so many people still alive. That convinced you? "I think Storr might be scum, his filter feels somewhat like OWB to me. He has barely done any reads at all. All he is doing is trying to lead town and blending in. He was the very first person to vote for July, he voted for him as a pressure vote to get him to post since he didn't post yet but never took it off after July started posting which I don't see why cause July didn't seem that scummy at that point. Besides that all he really does is try to lead town but never does any reads or scum hunting himself." Was your suspicion on him. The fact that Storr barely does any scumhunting barely changed; he attacked me and nyx only after we attacked him first. Meanwhile his opinions were pretty inconclusive on most anyone else, and he continued to blend in by talking about non-scumhunting topics. How did that manage to convince you so much? I feel like you're too defensive of Storr considering what's happened. Making me believe in the you/Storr pair more. Also, with regards to killing Jonny: I don't think that's a reason to feel less suspicious of Storr. First post after Jonny died Storr mentioned that the kill may have been an attempt to frame him; when I see that, I suspect that Storr killed Jonny to make us think Storr's just being framed. Mafia knows we're gonna be analyzing the kills like that; they could either kill their accusers or not since they could try and persuade town that it was framing. Like with the previous kill, I'd prefer looking at Jonny's arguments/logic rather than the simple fact that he died to evaluate whether or not his reads were right. (Before Storr comes in to rage again: yes, you're allowed to talk about stuff besides "who's scum", but when you barely hunt scum at all and only attack when you get attacked while making meh posts about most everyone else it's more blending in than trying to be helpful) | ||
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I can't think of any towny related motives for talking about blues like that, and the fact that he backed off makes me think he couldn't either. Well, I've kinda wondered what blue roles we might have since they've had little impact so far, but I've just been focusing on scumhunting rather than relying on blues. The comments are more scummy on average. I'd rather just ignore the stuff poofter said at the end, since he knew he was going to flip scum soon. I don't know how he'd expect us to react to anything he says, so I can't really tell his motives for saying stuff. I mean, he called Jonny scummy, and lumped me, owb, and "owb's savers" with him, while he gave solid town reads on Balla, Storr, and Odin. He lied about Jonny; he's probably telling the truth about Balla (and definitely at least one of his townreads is town, there aren't that many scum). I honestly don't know how we can use this information at all. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
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That drunk posting argument is weak speculation. I hope you know that Vonthin. It supports your case if everything else is convincing, but not by much and by itself it's near worthless. I'm pretty sure sure Odin switched to July because people were pushing him to secure it, in case scum switched off their scumbuddy or some shenanigan like that. Sounds reasonable enough when Odin has nothing better to do with his vote. I mean, he was trying to pressure Jonny with it, but he realized pretty quickly that it wasn't going to work. I also notice that he did basically the same thing in White Flag Mafia, where he was town and voted one guy for pressure or something even though everyone else was definitely lynching someone else. I agree that Odin shouldn't have much reason to vote you over Jonny if he thought you two were scumbuddies, with you deflecting off Jonny. I also don't really buy the deflecting off Jonny argument; it's more than possible for people to have different priorities. Perhaps he just thought he'd get a lynch on you easier, which is a reasonable switch if he thought you two were both scum, but it's pretty confusing. Oh yeah Vonthin, please make sure not to dismiss people who call you out on your failure to call owb scum in your case. I don't care much about earlyish votes, but the fact that you never come to the conclusion that owb is scum looks bad. That might be why Odin thought you were deflecting rather than focusing on someone you thought scum. It may or may not have been a mistake on your part, but no one else can tell if it's actually a mistake or you wanted to avoid committing until you realized your non-committing was noticed. I didn't read through every single post of Odin's filter, so I'll just trust you that he didn't say why he disliked you or why he liked a poofter kill. I'll let him wreck you if you're lying. In that case, he was likely sheeping on Balla's suspicions on you or everyone else's suspicions on poofter. After reading the case and considering Balla's point about poofter choosing not to vote the easier kill Odin D1, he could be scum. ...this doesn't seem quite as relevant anymore, but I had this mostly typed out anyways. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Balla can you summarize your discussion with Jonny which concluded that owb couldn't be scum with Vonthin or Storr? I'm having a bit of trouble finding it. Pointing me at the page where it starts getting on that topic would help too. I wanna talk about Storr's case on E00e right now. On E00e: Thanks Storr for finally showing some initiative in scumhunting. Way too late, but I'll consider E00e. So Storr's case starts with a summary of some of the points E00e makes in his first post. I have no idea why this is here, it's not analyzed and the E00e's opinions there are reasonable. Jonny's case on Van was crap and suspicion on me was reasonable. ...is this first half of the post part even a case? This stuff doesn't look suspicious on E00e at all. I'll assume, Storr, that you're just summarizing his action for convenience and move on. What a waste of time. Moving on to his day 2 vote. I guess he wanted to try and switch the lynch to owb over poofter, I don't like that since it divides town. Looks sketchy, yeah. Overall: I dislike the inactivity and the vote. Otherwise I actually like the intent in his posts. He scumhunts when he can, and his posts tend to be logical. Worthy of suspicion, not worth a lynch. Sure he's not that useful, but it's not a good enough reason to use a lynch imo when we have more scummy suspects. (Storr, owb, vonthin, maybe even odin) | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Also, the scumhunting you've done is recent and came only after a lot of prodding. There's a limit to the props I can give you for finally caving under pressure. -Now on to quoting E00e's posts. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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On October 31 2013 06:17 E00e wrote: Leaving my reasons off the table do you agree with me or not? Why I thought they where inconsistent in my mind obvious. Jonny already explicitly said it about july: They state they only want to make on point posts but dont do it. and I already wrote about Jonny: They said we should form a plan to hunt Mafia but then dont form one, make a strange remark about dismissing Storr and a forced accusation. You should not jump to the conclusion that Im not willing to talk (even though it was correct at that time) when I dont respond immediatly. I dont live in this thread. Explains why he's suspicious of Jonny and July. I don't think I've actually heard the one about Jonny's plan inconsistency from someone else, and it's decent reason to suspect. On October 31 2013 21:04 E00e wrote: If only my opinion mattered I would lynch Odin now. A lot of their posts seem so much over the top and look like how I imagine someone very nervous in a real conversation. Also I dont like some of their posts that just distract. This is not a super strong mafia read and I know we have to get a majority and I will most likely be able to be reading the thread near the deadline Btw I cant help but read Odin's post where every new sentence is a new line like poem and it makes them sound funny in my head. Clearly states his feeling on Odin, and eventually backs it up with a vote. Odin being chaotic/distracting is a reasonable opinion, and while the "nervous" thing is more of an instinctive feeling it's one that I can imagine him having. Plus, he's considering scum motivation: Odin could have been scum lashing out due to nerves cuz town wouldn't have been nervous in Odin's position. On November 01 2013 18:19 E00e wrote: Odin, I said I would vote on you before Jonny made his accusation. I then voted not because of Jonny but because of my own reasons when Balla asked me to. My reasons for your were not a simple misunderstanding. I left my vote on you because my opinion did not change and it enabled the possibility to lynch you. If July was missing one vote and no one else was near being lynched I would have changed my vote to them. I tried to convince people by refuting the two accusations on me. Remaining was a bad feeling about me which I did not believe I could change that day, but the next day. More on that Odin thing: he sticks to his scumread. He admits when he's suspicious, instead of being overdefensive about it. On November 02 2013 02:26 E00e wrote: I dont think Jonny is mafia. He makes some bad arguments and takes part in pointless discussions but his anger seems genuine and he puts out information. I feel like Mafia would have pushed for me and July. One of the people who did that is Vonthin. I still dont like their accusation one me and it looks like they tested out who could be lynched the most easily out of July,Odin,e00E. I like most of his opinions here even if he doesn't justify them here. Mafia pushing him is reasonable, especially considering how nyx and owb voted him at virtually the same time; that was sketchy. He examines Vonthin's actions and finds potential scum motivation for it. On November 03 2013 05:42 E00e wrote: Cakeman's last 12 posts or so seem strange to me because I feel like there is a conclusion missing. There are a lot of questions and responding posts to other people but the only pattern I see is pushing Storr and nothing is really done with the information cake receives. I'm guessing he know that mafia like to fake contributions: looking like they're helping, without making solid conclusions that can hurt them later. He's seeing that pattern and calls it out, and I'm pretty sure he was the only one to do so here. Of course, the lack of reasoning a lot of the time and general inactivity make him look worse, but I'm usually liking what I see. | ||
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of course, this is based on Balla's claim that he and Jonny worked out that you and owb can't be scumbuddies. I haven't actually gotten around to finding that conversation yet, but I can't imagine him getting away with blatantly lying about something verifiable like that. Anyways I gotta sleep. Post any questions you want, promise I'll get around to them if reasonably possible. | ||
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At the very least, the roleblock helps alleviate my lingering paranoia about Balla. He was telling the truth about the rb unless he planned this all out to clear himself, and I don't see a need for him of all people to need such clearing. He'd probably let a scumbuddy get cleared this way instead. Lemme think about the lynch, I'll hold off on my vote since there's over a whole day left. Owb's a solid enough vote, but I might as well use the time and consider things through. | ||
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Also, if owb is scum, his team could have declined to roleblock and let him claim to have been roleblocked. I'm not really sure how to analyze blues, but from what I've read E00e fits the bill better. owb is kinda just flying under the radar without helping, while E00e actually tries to help without posting too much and drawing attention to himself. Seems like the former is more scum than blue haha. In summary, I don't want to draw too many conclusions from the rb (owb being scum on his own merit is a different story). | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Storr barely pushed E00e imo and it could just be appearing to contribute by picking on a quiet guy. At this stage though I can see just about everything Storr does as a caught mafia trying to avoid getting lynched. He's just seemed so scummy to me for long enough, and he's been pushed enough, that it could be possible. I'm not sure anything would clear him from suspicion save solid facts from his or owb's flip. | ||
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As for better reasons, I think Storr is more scummy than owb in that Storr has done more of the scummy "make easy posts without actually contributing". Plus I don't like Storr's defenses to his accusations. I actually prefer how owb just admits when he looks scummy (admittedly, you're supposed to follow that up by being helpful to town, so it doesn't help much). But Storr decided to focus on trying to shut down valid accusations and calling his attackers scum, which is far worse imo. I've already explained why I thought Storr's defenses were bad. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2013 04:54 cakemanofdoom wrote: Addressing Storr: I was kinda buying this for a while, but I can't say I agree with this much in the end. Yeah, you can do other things in mafia that are helpful, but nothing's on the same level as finding scum and accusing them imo. Town wins by killing the mafia. Yup, you'd push your common sense as any alignment. So why not do something towny if you're town? I don't think you were so busy as to be unable to be town for so long after the game started, especially if you were able to post your common sense. Even Odin was able to form some opinions on people, and his rl looks like a total mess. No, after some more thought, I don't think it's stupid after all. Simply not trying hard doesn't mean much in a newbie game when we have several people being lazy/weak posters. Trying hard to fake contribute is scummy. Now, we can debate over whether or not you were fake contributing or actually contributing. I maintain that almost all your contributions throughout the game were "fake" and designed to make yourself look good rather than help town win. I'm not sure I can go into this part more than I already have. Too many of your posts had gone by without you doing the most important thing: catch and push lynches on scum. Meanwhile, those posts would have been really easy for scum to make to look good; you yourself say that you'd make those posts regardless of alignment. You ended up following town on July day one, before going back to your common sense posts. Now, you're pushing nyx. I had thought he was too nooby to tell if he's scum or just noob town. I'll admit, with his recent posts his lack of explanation is really grating on me. Regardless of his alignment I want more, though I'd imagine the mafia qt would shout at him to stop making posts lacking in reason? I am getting more comfortable with a lynch on him, though I think there's still too decent a chance that he's just being nooby. I like that you push him, though, and that you've stated a solid opinion now. If you live, I hope you continue with that. That said, ##Vote: StorrZerg I'm not particularly inclined to give you more chances right now. I thought you were a decent lynch yesterday, but I decided to give you more chances to contribute since you seemed busy. Since then, though, you've only counter-attacked people who pushed you first. I still don't see much initiative to try and find mafia. I'm not sure Storr ever addressed the core of my points. He had this: + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2013 03:34 StorrZerg wrote: Bad pints against myself, and other scummy behavior as well yes. You realize nearly everyone has asked me to say something, or have said something about me... A bad point your bringing up. "Took to long" Sorry if my approach to the game is different than yours.... on the note of "taking to long" Yeah lets just disregard half the town now because they have been inactive on Halloween. People live outside of this game cake, and im not one that usually cares to bring my RL into this game. I have reasons for being "inactive" and sometimes other people have pointed out why i am "inactive" How about you stop looking at arbitrary crap that has nothing to do with scum or town. I prefer to post, and do things in the game, rather than explain my inactivity from outside events. The inactivity was NOT my accusation; as I'd later pointed out my complaint was TOO MUCH activity without some scumhunting to go with it. Excessive barely-useful and easy activity is the scum move of blending in. And then Storr later lashed out at town again for accusing him of inactivity, but that time he just said he wasn't inactive instead of implying that he had good reasons for inactivity. Inconsistent responses while misrespresenting of an argument against him? Scum trying to look better at all costs. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2013 05:33 StorrZerg wrote: EBTWOP (meant to click preview) btw no duh town wins by killing mafia. And saying right now that im not scum hunting is a blatant lie. You have said, i have taken "too long" to make my reads" I have given an opinion on pretty much every person in this game so far. You are not attacking my reads at all, you are attacking me because i was "slow" to come up with them. Yeah, it's obvious that town needs to kill mafia. That's why Storr wasn't contributing! He was barely hunting mafia! yet he at some point said he was contributing more than I said he was. Then Storr dismisses my attacks as saying that he was just too slow to come up with reads. --That's bad! Considering that he was definitely active early on, being so slow to come up with reads, and only on major attackers or people he was specifically asked about, seems like he was avoiding having to come up with opinions. Plus, his comment about "right now" is misdirection: yes, he had begun to post more productively. That does not in any way erase his scumminess from earlier, which is what he seemed to be trying to make us think by brushing past his terrible start (and it's a bit inaccurate to just call it a start, Storr's unhelpfulness lasted pretty long) Oh, also: there's a difference between people addressing him and him being asked about specific people. He had to be asked about specific people to give reads on them (fairly inconclusive ones at that, iirc). He seemed to imply at one point that he could only address people who had addressed him first. I'll give him that, but it doesn't change the fact that he could and should have formed opinions on people who hadn't been brought to his attention with specific questions or with a case on him. I can't even accept being bad or not caring enough to look as his excuse. He obviously cares, since he responded so vehemently to attacks on him. Also: + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2013 05:09 JonnyLaw wrote: disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it. This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so. Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin. Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well. Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town? He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx? Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL! Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him. No shit you are. This is at @owb No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter. DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting. This was Jonny's last case on Storr. You can wonder what scum were doing killing Jonny all you want, but townie logic is townie logic and should be seriously considered if the logic itself is sound. And I like at least some of Jonny's logic here; that weak pressure on poofter does look a bit suspicious. Also, Storr's response only mentions the vig comment, looking like Storr just wanted to discredit the case by attacking the weaker points. And then as soon as Jonny dies Storr comes out talking about how scum could have been framing him. We can't know exactly what mafia was thinking. But if the result is that Storr's trying to use the death to get suspicion off himself, it makes me think that's what the kill was intended for. Also: + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2013 05:09 JonnyLaw wrote: disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it. This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so. Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin. Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well. Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town? He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx? Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL! Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him. No shit you are. This is at @owb No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter. DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting. This was Jonny's last case on Storr. You can wonder what scum were doing killing Jonny all you want, but townie logic is townie logic and should be seriously considered if the logic itself is sound. And I like at least some of Jonny's logic here; that weak pressure on poofter does look a bit suspicious. Also, Storr's response only mentions the vig comment, looking like Storr just wanted to discredit the case by attacking the weaker points. And then as soon as Jonny dies Storr comes out talking about how scum could have been framing him. We can't know exactly what mafia was thinking. But if the result is that Storr's trying to use the death to get suspicion off himself, it makes me think that's what the kill was intended for. ##Vote: StorrZerg Please guys? Can we lynch Storr first? owb is scummy too, but he shouldn't be too troublesome to kill if Storr somehow flips town. Storr feels a lot scummier to me, and I want the highest chance of a scumflip. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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cakemanofdoom
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After calming down and rereading it (and thinking some more) though, it's become easier to imagine Storr being town. Thinking from a town perspective, it's not too unreasonable for Storr to act like he did. Point is, I'm more comfortable waiting for owb to flip before I worry about Storr any further. Plus owb really is scummy, he barely posts anything helpful in the rare times he does post. His last point about Storr might be worth considering if he flips town, but otherwise it seems more like last minute misdirection. owb, please try and give us whatever you can. We'd value the logic with trustworthy intentions if you do flip town. ##Unvote ##Vote: onlywonderboy | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Wait does this clear Storr if the owb/Storr pair is highly unlikely? ...yeah, I think it probably does unless I remember something wrong. Sorry for the heavy tunneling Storr. I'm probably an idiot. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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Aside from that I don't see anything helpful we can get from roleclaims in the night. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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cakemanofdoom
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cakemanofdoom
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Also Balla, if you think I've been questioning you too much it's because I've been paranoid this whole game of you since we're screwed if the most active townie/everyone's strongest townread happened to be mafia. Paranoia and tunneling ftw. | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
yay Vonthin ##Vote: OdinOfPergo Best part is even if Vonthin's lying we can just kill him afterward, since there's no way a townie would lie about this (...right?!?) | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Well, the most stressful parts were probably when I got shouted at by Storr for the overtunneling, which was my own fault. Sorry again about that! Still, mafia this game were pretty quiet. It looked like owb and poofter were trying to blend in at first, but they kinda disappeared at some point. Was it because they got pressured, I wonder? Odin's posts also seemed more focused in bursts, leading to kinda inconsistent activity iirc. They probably would have done much better with someone like Balla on their team... It seems like the best chance they had was townies thinking Storr was scummy (>.>) btw, what made you decide to check owb first night and me second night? | ||
cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Thanks for the help. Still not sure why VE popped in there with advice to play a doctor. gg all, nice try mafia. Seems like rl made you all too busy to win haha. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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cakemanofdoom
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And then mafia left Balla alive the next night too. | ||
cakemanofdoom
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